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(Wired)   So, um, who forgot to fill out an environmental impact statement before launching all that space junk?   (wired.com) divider line 10
    More: Misc, environmental impact statement, space junk, geostationary orbit, statements, Big Sky Conference, multistage rockets, communications satellites, environmental disaster  
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1754 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



10 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-01 09:57:43 AM  
And of course nobody wants to pay the bill for dealing with the junk.
 
2013-08-01 10:13:08 AM  
static.ddmcdn.com

My God, it's full of star washers...
 
2013-08-01 10:44:13 AM  
Sounds like a land grab.
How do they plan to keep explorers off the glass?
 
2013-08-01 02:21:15 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: [static.ddmcdn.com image 400x400]

My God, it's full of star washers...


It can`t be because we will never get into space according to some...

/maybe it is swarf from 3D printing in space
 
2013-08-01 02:43:29 PM  

dready zim: Quantum Apostrophe: [static.ddmcdn.com image 400x400]

My God, it's full of star washers...

It can`t be because we will never get into space according to some...

/maybe it is swarf from 3D printing in space


Space is very large. Low Earth Orbit is still in the atmosphere.

Do you understand that or do I need to to dumb it down further?

Here: We've blown our load when we reach LEO. You can send people to the Moon for some significant fraction of the GDP of a superpower. Then what?
 
2013-08-01 04:43:36 PM  
"If we develop the moon and don't put the right efforts into place, one day there will be a lunar orbital debris problem," said Williamson.

Not really, because there isn't enough gravity for things to sit in a locked orbit, and they will either drift off or fall to the moon's surface. The story mentions things falling, but not in this way. Sure, they'll fall, but all we have to do is anticipate their failure and bring them in controlled.

Part of what holds the band of debris in orbit around the Earth is the gravitational field. next to none on the moon. Things will probably drift away, not just hang there.
 
2013-08-02 11:00:00 AM  

Mikey1969: Not really, because there isn't enough gravity for things to sit in a locked orbit, and they will either drift off or fall to the moon's surface. The story mentions things falling, but not in this way. Sure, they'll fall, but all we have to do is anticipate their failure and bring them in controlled.

Part of what holds the band of debris in orbit around the Earth is the gravitational field. next to none on the moon. Things will probably drift away, not just hang there.


The moon has plenty of gravitational force, there's just less than there is on earth (83.3% less, to be exact).  But it's not gravity-free.   You realise that the speed required to maintain a stable orbit varies depending on the escape velocity of respective body, right?  There's no single "standard orbit" speed.  Orbital speed also varies depending on how close one is to the target body.  Because of the moon's lower mass and lower escape velocity, the speed required to maintain a stable lunar orbit is a lot slower than what you need to maintain a stable earth orbit.

TL;DR -- It's entirely possible to enter a stable lunar orbit and stay there for years; many probes from several different countries have done this.
 
2013-08-02 11:09:49 AM  

Thurston Howell: Mikey1969: Not really, because there isn't enough gravity for things to sit in a locked orbit, and they will either drift off or fall to the moon's surface. The story mentions things falling, but not in this way. Sure, they'll fall, but all we have to do is anticipate their failure and bring them in controlled.

Part of what holds the band of debris in orbit around the Earth is the gravitational field. next to none on the moon. Things will probably drift away, not just hang there.

The moon has plenty of gravitational force, there's just less than there is on earth (83.3% less, to be exact).  But it's not gravity-free.   You realise that the speed required to maintain a stable orbit varies depending on the escape velocity of respective body, right?  There's no single "standard orbit" speed.  Orbital speed also varies depending on how close one is to the target body.  Because of the moon's lower mass and lower escape velocity, the speed required to maintain a stable lunar orbit is a lot slower than what you need to maintain a stable earth orbit.

TL;DR -- It's entirely possible to enter a stable lunar orbit and stay there for years; many probes from several different countries have done this.


I'm talking about the random discarded crap that makes up so much of the Earth's debris field, not calculated orbits.

Besides, as for the rest of the premise, we really just have to put rules in place that if you put it up there, you bring it down. Period. Should have been put in place for the Earth, too. Countries should have to plan extra fuel at the end of a satellite's life to get it to Earth, or send a team up to retrieve it. If it's under a certain size, or falls so far off the radar that they can't find it, the country pays a "cleanup" fee of some kind, and it becomes fair game for any future missions that encounter it to salvage or destroy it.

My point was really just the loose random shirt. Besides, I don't think the moon will need anywhere near the satellite's we have on earth.
 
2013-08-02 12:06:17 PM  

Mikey1969: I'm talking about the random discarded crap that makes up so much of the Earth's debris field, not calculated orbits.


You don't think that the booster that has to inject (read: decelerate) any given probe into a lunar orbit might, I dunno, be affected by the moon's weak gravitation enough to enter a highly elliptical orbit and sit there for a decade or two?

I'd like to think that the geniuses that sent it on its way were also smart enough to send the expended stage to the surface, away from a known landing site.  But then I would have thought they would be smart enough to do that for the expended stages of junk flying around their home planet.  =D   Here's hoping that they eventually do, before near earth orbit turns into a giant Kessler syndrome farkup and we can't launch shiat.
 
2013-08-02 01:07:21 PM  

Thurston Howell: Mikey1969: I'm talking about the random discarded crap that makes up so much of the Earth's debris field, not calculated orbits.

You don't think that the booster that has to inject (read: decelerate) any given probe into a lunar orbit might, I dunno, be affected by the moon's weak gravitation enough to enter a highly elliptical orbit and sit there for a decade or two?

I'd like to think that the geniuses that sent it on its way were also smart enough to send the expended stage to the surface, away from a known landing site.  But then I would have thought they would be smart enough to do that for the expended stages of junk flying around their home planet.  =D   Here's hoping that they eventually do, before near earth orbit turns into a giant Kessler syndrome farkup and we can't launch shiat.


That's kind of what I meant to say, we need to put an agreement into place from the beginning so that the only stuff around the Moon is what's necessary, boosters and such would have to be recovered by this theoretical rule, or the offending party would be fined.

Yeah, I like the idea of not starting out polluting, rather than play catch-up later.. Of course, nobody will cooperate.
 
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