If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mother Jones)   Let's try out the old burger flippers calculator to see if you can survive on fast-food wages. Difficulty: calculated math involved   (motherjones.com) divider line 240
    More: Interesting, living wages, value meals  
•       •       •

2238 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:35 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



240 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-01 01:26:55 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


That was before we lost unskilled factory jobs that could support a family, house, car, and retirement savings.
 
2013-08-01 01:31:07 PM
if you start a sentence with "back in my day", it's best to just stop it
 
2013-08-01 01:31:10 PM

FarkedOver: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

Your day sounds like a blast.  But today, in the real world, student debt is crippling younger people.  There aren't as many readily available jobs so some times people have to settle for anything while keeping their job search up.

Fark you and fark back in your day.


You seem a little testy today, comrade.
 
2013-08-01 01:32:32 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


Yeah, and back in my day a high school had an auto shop, a metal shop and a wood shop. Now, the classes I took in my high school are no longer offered, since they shut down the auto shop, metal shop and wood shop. Used to be you could go from high school to blue collar manufacturing, fabrication or construction with no need for a secondary degree.

Too bad too many assholes decided that they should short-change the education system in order to push a bullshiat private institution model which has turned into a program built to extract money from people with federally backed loans while giving them virtually nothing in return.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:20 PM

Smackledorfer: The world needs ditchdiggers too. Society doesn't have to ensure they are miserable.

Seriously in a service economy with the average fast food worker being 30+, either start calling for soylent green, massive socialism, or real wages. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

Hate the poors? Own it and call for their death.


Ditch digging is a union job, and the work of 20 men is done with one ore more of these babies now

perishablepress.com

us.123rf.com
 
2013-08-01 01:36:48 PM

Aristocles: You seem a little testy today, comrade.


Never regarding you sweetheart! :)

xoxoxo
 
2013-08-01 01:37:13 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


yeah & i assume back in your day you could purchase a house in Burbank Ca. for 27K and a car for under 4K, I bet tuition for education was affordable too!  nowadays as we move more towards a service based economy, jobs aren't used to make examples of how not to live, they are a means of income.
 
2013-08-01 01:37:47 PM

Aristocles: FarkedOver: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

Your day sounds like a blast.  But today, in the real world, student debt is crippling younger people.  There aren't as many readily available jobs so some times people have to settle for anything while keeping their job search up.

Fark you and fark back in your day.

You seem a little testy today, comrade.


Maybe a few button-pushings at the fry machine's behest will placate Farkover's  intellectual needs for the near future.
 
2013-08-01 01:38:36 PM

lantawa: Maybe a few button-pushings at the fry machine's behest will placate Farkover's intellectual needs for the near future.


Who am I kidding, I am so clumsy if I tried to operate the fry machine I'd start a 3 alarm grease fire.
 
2013-08-01 01:41:43 PM

Isitoveryet: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

yeah & i assume back in your day you could purchase a house in Burbank Ca. for 27K and a car for under 4K, I bet tuition for education was affordable too!  nowadays as we move more towards a service based economy, jobs aren't used to make examples of how not to live, they are a means of income.


I'm only 36...I came out of college and started on an assembly line (Yes, double degree in physics and Com Sci, working on a PCB assembly line) I knew I didn't want to stay there...I didn't expect to earn any kind of decent wage from there.  I used it to move up the ranks into the engineering department.

Your low wage job is only a dead-end if you let it be.  Use it as a springboard to something better.

And for the record, when I got out of college, average house was around 130K in my area.  Now it's around 200...
 
2013-08-01 01:42:24 PM

FarkedOver: dwrash: It's more like people who take the low route with their careers and have no aspirations of actually achieving anything in their lives somehow deserve to be paid 2-3 times more than the market will bear. The other issue is that when their wages go up so do the cost of goods so its eventually a zero sum game.

If you want a living wage... find a skill that is sought after and become good at it. I've changed careers a number of times due to market changes.

Why do people continue to spew complete bullshiat from their mouths? I just don't understand it



I have to agree with you, yes you don't understand it, do you? And that's your probelm.

.
 
2013-08-01 01:43:19 PM

Danger Mouse: I have to agree with you, yes you don't understand it, do you? And that's your probelm.


We all got probelms, I know.
 
2013-08-01 01:55:51 PM

dragonfire77: Isitoveryet: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

yeah & i assume back in your day you could purchase a house in Burbank Ca. for 27K and a car for under 4K, I bet tuition for education was affordable too!  nowadays as we move more towards a service based economy, jobs aren't used to make examples of how not to live, they are a means of income.

I'm only 36...I came out of college and started on an assembly line (Yes, double degree in physics and Com Sci, working on a PCB assembly line) I knew I didn't want to stay there...I didn't expect to earn any kind of decent wage from there.  I used it to move up the ranks into the engineering department.

Your low wage job is only a dead-end if you let it be.  Use it as a springboard to something better.

And for the record, when I got out of college, average house was around 130K in my area.  Now it's around 200...


36! you're too young to start off with "back in my day".
an education is a useful tool for advancement & I can very much appreciate your positive outlook.


re: home prices, i wish everyone would just walk away from the current asking prices, simply walk away, don't pay it, force the prices down, nobody should participate in todays realty scam.
 
2013-08-01 01:56:47 PM

dittybopper: I don't have the money handling skillset that comes with being rich


This is the biggest bullshiat phrase I've ever heard.
 
2013-08-01 02:00:02 PM

FarkedOver: lantawa: Maybe a few button-pushings at the fry machine's behest will placate Farkover's intellectual needs for the near future.

Who am I kidding, I am so clumsy if I tried to operate the fry machine I'd start a 3 alarm grease fire.


I'll be eternally grateful that, one day, back in my day, the sliver-slicer was set on cheese instead of tomatoes. Cheese-setting = sliced-off side of fingertip.  Tomato-setting would have = 1/3 of finger GONE...  thankya, powers that be...thankya....
 
2013-08-01 02:02:19 PM

Isitoveryet: re: home prices, i wish everyone would just walk away from the current asking prices, simply walk away, don't pay it, force the prices down, nobody should participate in todays realty scam.


36! you're too young to start off with "back in my day".
Perhaps, but I have 4 kids, the oldest of which are hitting the teen years, so I find myself using that phrase a lot, lately...

Houses:
There are still bargains out there, but they're becoming rarer and rarer.

Remember, you're not a failure if you get knocked down...the problem with so many people is that they STAY down...
 
2013-08-01 02:03:20 PM

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?


At the 40 hours a week mark, I'd say.

Just because *some* people work these jobs part-time to supplement their income or their parent's income doesn't mean the job itself shouldn't pay enough to live off of if you do it full time.
 
2013-08-01 02:19:35 PM

EWreckedSean: MrBallou: I don't get why these guys (see your favorite FArk Independents above) are so adamantly in favor of helping widen the wealth gap. It's not like the 1% are ever gonna let any of it trickle down to them.

They're just telling the other slaves to shut up and be grateful Massa don' beat 'em mo'. They's hard times on de' plantation an' Massa caint spare no time fo' yo' foolishness.

How does raising McDonald's employees wages have any affect what so ever on the 1%? The owners aren't going to eat the costs. They will simply up the prices of their food, and effectively you will take from one poor person's hand to give to another. Not many 1% come in and hit the value meal for lunch.


Rriiigghhtt. 1) the owners could indeed "eat the costs". Cutting the margin razor thin by stiffing the people who keep it moving is immoral. but that ain't gonna happen, so 2) so what if the roll it into the price and "poor people" pay $0.68/burger more? The entire economy is not not dependent on that $0.68. Not everything has to be dirt cheap. Really. Pay what it's worth, instead of the smallest amount you possibly can. Then the guy behind the counter won't have to feel like slave labor.

"Help a brother out?" shouldn't just be for street corner beggars. How about we do it for people willing to work for the money? That's what you Conservatives always say you want.
 
2013-08-01 02:20:59 PM

MrBallou: "Help a brother out?" shouldn't just be for street corner beggars. How about we do it for people willing to work for the money? That's what you Conservatives always say you want.


Ya, but they don't want the government to force them to help because that makes it easier to say that they want to help without actually having to.
 
2013-08-01 02:25:02 PM

Garble: dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

At the 40 hours a week mark, I'd say.

Just because *some* people work these jobs part-time to supplement their income or their parent's income doesn't mean the job itself shouldn't pay enough to live off of if you do it full time.


Yes it does. The simple truth is that some work isn't worth a living wage. That's why they are generally worked by people who aren't trying to live off it, aka high school kids, retirees looking for some extra income, second household income earners. Just because somebody chooses to try and make a career out of a non-career job doesn't mean employers should suddenly double what they are willing to pay to support them. Some jobs simply aren't worth $15/hr. A fast food restaurant makes it's money by selling cheap food. That means keeping costs, including wages down. There are plenty of restaurants that aren't about selling cheap food that people can earn better wages at.
 
2013-08-01 02:26:41 PM
PROTIP:  If your job doesn't pay very much, you can't afford to live on your own.  Share the bills with a friend, friends, or family members, don't piss all your money away at bars, and work towards getting a better job.

If no one decent wants to live with you, it's because you suck.
 
2013-08-01 02:26:59 PM

meat0918: Smackledorfer: The world needs ditchdiggers too. Society doesn't have to ensure they are miserable.

Seriously in a service economy with the average fast food worker being 30+, either start calling for soylent green, massive socialism, or real wages. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

Hate the poors? Own it and call for their death.

Ditch digging is a union job, and the work of 20 men is done with one ore more of these babies now

[perishablepress.com image 300x143]

[us.123rf.com image 266x400]


Woe is the day when caddy shack becomes obscure on fark.
 
2013-08-01 02:28:27 PM

dr_blasto: While it is important to provide social and economic safety nets, there's no reason those should be used to enhance profit for Walmart and Mcdonalds.


Preach it brother. Even the FARK INDEPENDENTS should see the validity of this.
 
2013-08-01 02:29:27 PM

Smackledorfer: meat0918: Smackledorfer: The world needs ditchdiggers too. Society doesn't have to ensure they are miserable.

Seriously in a service economy with the average fast food worker being 30+, either start calling for soylent green, massive socialism, or real wages. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

Hate the poors? Own it and call for their death.

Ditch digging is a union job, and the work of 20 men is done with one ore more of these babies now

[perishablepress.com image 300x143]

[us.123rf.com image 266x400]

Woe is the day when caddy shack becomes obscure on fark.


At least that hat looks good on you.
 
2013-08-01 02:29:53 PM

MrBallou: EWreckedSean: MrBallou: I don't get why these guys (see your favorite FArk Independents above) are so adamantly in favor of helping widen the wealth gap. It's not like the 1% are ever gonna let any of it trickle down to them.

They're just telling the other slaves to shut up and be grateful Massa don' beat 'em mo'. They's hard times on de' plantation an' Massa caint spare no time fo' yo' foolishness.

How does raising McDonald's employees wages have any affect what so ever on the 1%? The owners aren't going to eat the costs. They will simply up the prices of their food, and effectively you will take from one poor person's hand to give to another. Not many 1% come in and hit the value meal for lunch.

Rriiigghhtt. 1) the owners could indeed "eat the costs". Cutting the margin razor thin by stiffing the people who keep it moving is immoral. but that ain't gonna happen, so 2) so what if the roll it into the price and "poor people" pay $0.68/burger more? The entire economy is not not dependent on that $0.68. Not everything has to be dirt cheap. Really. Pay what it's worth, instead of the smallest amount you possibly can. Then the guy behind the counter won't have to feel like slave labor.

"Help a brother out?" shouldn't just be for street corner beggars. How about we do it for people willing to work for the money? That's what you Conservatives always say you want.


Most McDonald's operate at a ~10% profit margin. From the article yesterday, doubling wages would cost 17% hike in costs. So no they couldn't eat it. The costs would result in an almost 20% increase in prices, which breaks a business model that is already strained. You notice dollar menu's have about gone away. Now it is value menus, with food from $1 to $1.75 or so. 20% increase in price turns an $8 meal into an almost $10 meal. That isn't the market they are going for.
 
2013-08-01 02:30:46 PM

EWreckedSean: Garble: dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

At the 40 hours a week mark, I'd say.

Just because *some* people work these jobs part-time to supplement their income or their parent's income doesn't mean the job itself shouldn't pay enough to live off of if you do it full time.

Yes it does. The simple truth is that some work isn't worth a living wage. That's why they are generally worked by people who aren't trying to live off it, aka high school kids, retirees looking for some extra income, second household income earners. Just because somebody chooses to try and make a career out of a non-career job doesn't mean employers should suddenly double what they are willing to pay to support them. Some jobs simply aren't worth $15/hr. A fast food restaurant makes it's money by selling cheap food. That means keeping costs, including wages down. There are plenty of restaurants that aren't about selling cheap food that people can earn better wages at.


Oh bullshiat.

HS kids can't work full time, nobody should expect them to and they are earning supplemental income. Adults work at places like this because that's the job they can get.

Any corporation that supplements their profit by forcing communities to employ an economic safety net aren't good employers, aren't good citizens and aren't capitalists. They're farking fascists and don't deserve to run any business. There's no need for society to tolerate that bullshiat, and we damn well shouldn't.
 
2013-08-01 02:31:53 PM

Isitoveryet: re: home prices, i wish everyone would just walk away from the current asking prices, simply walk away, don't pay it, force the prices down, nobody should participate in todays realty scam.


What is the scam exactly? If the amount of space you get in a given home is reasonable relative to rent in the area and you have a decent interest rate, then there is no scam.  Now I can't speak for where you live and whether it works out that way or not, but where I live unless you plan on moving you are still better off buying than renting if you have decent credit and the ability to foot the down payment.

Hell, the real estate bubble bursting wouldn't even have been that big a deal if it hadn't coincided with a recession and poor bank practices.  I wouldn't call that a perfect storm, but it definitely wasn't a single factor.
 
2013-08-01 02:33:33 PM

meat0918: At least that hat looks good on you.


My free bowl of soup was delicious.
 
2013-08-01 02:35:28 PM

EWreckedSean: which breaks a business model that is already strained.


McDonalds is struggling so much they could only afford to pay their CEO $20,710,000 last year.
 
2013-08-01 02:53:44 PM
 
2013-08-01 03:00:36 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: EWreckedSean: which breaks a business model that is already strained.

McDonalds is struggling so much they could only afford to pay their CEO $20,710,000 last year.



It also made record profits in Australia last year where the min wage is about 15usd.
 
2013-08-01 03:04:21 PM

Scoop84: http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/at-99-a-st-petersburg- m an-finds-meaning-in-the-working-life/2132028

Quit your biatching.


I am sure you could find a slave who happily goes to work in the fields, too.

What is your point?
 
2013-08-01 03:05:19 PM

Raharu: Dusk-You-n-Me: EWreckedSean: which breaks a business model that is already strained.

McDonalds is struggling so much they could only afford to pay their CEO $20,710,000 last year.


It also made record profits in Australia last year where the min wage is about 15usd.



One of you should start a competing restaurant chain where the workers and CEO all make $15-20/hr.  Sounds like there's room to clean up.
 
2013-08-01 03:05:25 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: McDonalds is struggling so much they could only afford to pay their CEO $20,710,000 last year.


And increase their dividend to shareholders by 13% a year over the last five years....
 
2013-08-01 03:06:30 PM

Smackledorfer: Scoop84: http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/at-99-a-st-petersburg- m an-finds-meaning-in-the-working-life/2132028

Quit your biatching.

I am sure you could find a slave who happily goes to work in the fields, too.

What is your point?


My point was:  Quit your biatching.

Sorry if I was unclear.
 
2013-08-01 03:13:24 PM

Scoop84: Raharu: Dusk-You-n-Me: EWreckedSean: which breaks a business model that is already strained.

McDonalds is struggling so much they could only afford to pay their CEO $20,710,000 last year.


It also made record profits in Australia last year where the min wage is about 15usd.


One of you should start a competing restaurant chain where the workers and CEO all make $15-20/hr.  Sounds like there's room to clean up.



What a delightful little strawman! He has your eyes. Did you make him yourself?
 
2013-08-01 03:13:47 PM

dr_blasto: SCUBA_Archer: Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.

If a company wants to turn a profit and succeed using the fruits of our society, things like public education, roadways, legal system and whatnot, that company has to play by the rules of that society.

No company should be allowed to bolster their bottom-line by requiring taxpayers to subsidise their low wages with public assistance. Yet, these corporations do this wantonly, they count on the fact that you and I will cover their extra profit. It is complete bullshiat--you provide an hour of your life to some corporation? You should be paid a living wage. Nobody expects them to get rich.

While it is important to provide social and economic safety nets, there's no reason those should be used to enhance profit for Walmart and Mcdonalds.


You are incredibly naive.  Labor is a supply and demand issue.  What you are asking is tatamount to saying Walmart may only sell US made goods or can only build stores on heavily taxed parcels of land.  You are introducing an artificial restraint to an otherwise free market.  Forcing them to pay certain wages will not have the fairytale outcome of every American having a white picket fence and 2 cars in the driveway that you think it will.  If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.  Look at North Dakota now, or New Orleans after Katrina.  McDonalds gladly paid $15 an hr for workers there, because the labor pool was small and they had to in order to run their business.  The government didn't tell them they had to up wages in order to serve hamburgers to oil workers.  The opposite is true when you have a deep labor pool.  I'm amazed that your brain can't wrap around that simple concept.
 
2013-08-01 03:24:22 PM
I love how new Fox Talking Points become Gospel within a matter of weeks. Now we have a swarm of Teatards in here taking about how Planning and Budgeting are the tools that the popes should use as bootstraps. Why was this never brought up during the last Presidential campaign? Gingrich was droning on and on about how janitorial jobs for little black a schoolchildren and moon colonies were the solutions and would revitalize our entire society. Rmoney said that tuna fish sandwiches and loans from your parents are sure-fire tools to prosperity.

Another hoax is all the blather about 'making good choices'. All of the white suburban middle-class kids that I knew, and their kids, farked up at some point or other in middle school or high school, whether it was slacking in school or getting into drugs, or downright felonious behavior (a surprisingly high percentage of young white males), they were able to survive it and stay on track, unless they did something outrageously egregious. Having affluent parents will get you out of most anything, because you're 'basically a good kid', and besmirching your record would 'ruin your life'. Hiring a decent lawyer is more than half the battle.
 
2013-08-01 03:25:24 PM

SCUBA_Archer: If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.


You're an idiot. This is a strawman argument that has been shot down repeatedly and yet this late in the thread you roll it out. People don't line up for wal-mart because they want to do it, you imbecile. They do it because the factory that used to be there is closed and their kid is farking hungry. To continually occupy a sizeable portion of the workforce knowing you can keep your wages ARTIFICIALLY low because social programs make up the difference is treason.
 
2013-08-01 03:27:18 PM

Madbassist1: SCUBA_Archer: If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.

You're an idiot. This is a strawman argument that has been shot down repeatedly and yet this late in the thread you roll it out. People don't line up for wal-mart because they want to do it, you imbecile. They do it because the factory that used to be there is closed and their kid is farking hungry. To continually occupy a sizeable portion of the workforce knowing you can keep your wages ARTIFICIALLY low because social programs make up the difference is treason.


oops. Sorry for calling you an imbecile. I'm trying to quit doing that as it cheapens my argument and hell, you didnt call me anything. Apologies.
 
2013-08-01 03:28:19 PM

Scoop84: Smackledorfer: Scoop84: http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/at-99-a-st-petersburg- m an-finds-meaning-in-the-working-life/2132028

Quit your biatching.

I am sure you could find a slave who happily goes to work in the fields, too.

What is your point?

My point was:  Quit your biatching.

Sorry if I was unclear.


Just checking. Figured everyone deserves a chance to show they aren't a selfish ignorant moron when they say something as stupid as you did.
 
2013-08-01 03:28:42 PM

Smackledorfer: Isitoveryet: re: home prices, i wish everyone would just walk away from the current asking prices, simply walk away, don't pay it, force the prices down, nobody should participate in todays realty scam.

What is the scam exactly? If the amount of space you get in a given home is reasonable relative to rent in the area and you have a decent interest rate, then there is no scam.  Now I can't speak for where you live and whether it works out that way or not, but where I live unless you plan on moving you are still better off buying than renting if you have decent credit and the ability to foot the down payment.

Hell, the real estate bubble bursting wouldn't even have been that big a deal if it hadn't coincided with a recession and poor bank practices.  I wouldn't call that a perfect storm, but it definitely wasn't a single factor.


I'm in southern ca. owners who rent their properties look to make their mortgage payment and their monthly income from the renter.
the scam (which may have been the wrong word) is the attempt to over value a home at the owners benefit (in my area the average seems to be the peak bubble value, either that or homeowners are heavy with debt & are looking for the big payout).  I understand bank owned property has had its hand in artificially maintaining that inflated value as well.  It just seems to me that (in my area) the bubble burst but the values didn't correct. So i say, don't buy, force the prices into more reasonable areas of affordability.
this is just me wishing, i know there are people out there who would be more than happy to overpay for a piece of shiat property just because they can afford to overpay.
 
2013-08-01 03:38:30 PM

Smackledorfer: Scoop84: Smackledorfer: Scoop84: http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/at-99-a-st-petersburg- m an-finds-meaning-in-the-working-life/2132028

Quit your biatching.

I am sure you could find a slave who happily goes to work in the fields, too.

What is your point?

My point was:  Quit your biatching.

Sorry if I was unclear.

Just checking. Figured everyone deserves a chance to show they aren't a selfish ignorant moron when they say something as stupid as you did.


No worries.  It must be terrible to be as content as the guy in the article I linked.  Glad you don't have that problem.
 
2013-08-01 03:57:42 PM

Madbassist1: SCUBA_Archer: If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.

You're an idiot. This is a strawman argument that has been shot down repeatedly and yet this late in the thread you roll it out. People don't line up for wal-mart because they want to do it, you imbecile. They do it because the factory that used to be there is closed and their kid is farking hungry. To continually occupy a sizeable portion of the workforce knowing you can keep your wages ARTIFICIALLY low because social programs make up the difference is treason.


So because a factory closed, another company should be forced to pay the same wages for different types of work (mostly unskilled labor).  How does this even compute?  Why not just have the government pay to keep the factories open with their high paying jobs?
 
2013-08-01 04:00:02 PM

SCUBA_Archer: dr_blasto: SCUBA_Archer: Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.

If a company wants to turn a profit and succeed using the fruits of our society, things like public education, roadways, legal system and whatnot, that company has to play by the rules of that society.

No company should be allowed to bolster their bottom-line by requiring taxpayers to subsidise their low wages with public assistance. Yet, these corporations do this wantonly, they count on the fact that you and I will cover their extra profit. It is complete bullshiat--you provide an hour of your life to some corporation? You should be paid a living wage. Nobody expects them to get rich.

While it is important to provide social and economic safety nets, there's no reason those should be used to enhance profit for Walmart and Mcdonalds.

You are incredibly naive.  Labor is a supply and demand issue.  What you are asking is tatamount to saying Walmart may only sell US made goods or can only build stores on heavily taxed parcels of land.  You are introducing an artificial restraint to an otherwise free market.  Forcing them to pay certain wages will not have the fairytale outcome of every American having a white picket fence and 2 cars in the driveway that you think it will.  If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.  Look at North Dakota now, or New Orleans after Katrina.  McDonalds gladly paid $15 an hr for workers there, because the labor pool was small and they had to in order to run their business.  The government didn't tell them they had to up wages in order to serve hamburgers to oil workers.  The opposite is true when you have a deep labor pool.  I'm amazed that your brain can't wrap around that simple concept.


This has nothing to do with naivete. Your argument does, however, have lots to do with strawmen. Nobody is asking to pay unskilled workers enough to buy a Benz or a mcmansion. Not every poor person can up and move across country and not everybody can physically work the fields in ND.

Why should we allow corporations to pad their bottom line through the creation of highly profitable enterprises that rely on taxpayers subsidising employee's basic needs?
 
2013-08-01 04:01:34 PM

Isitoveryet: Smackledorfer: Isitoveryet: re: home prices, i wish everyone would just walk away from the current asking prices, simply walk away, don't pay it, force the prices down, nobody should participate in todays realty scam.

What is the scam exactly? If the amount of space you get in a given home is reasonable relative to rent in the area and you have a decent interest rate, then there is no scam.  Now I can't speak for where you live and whether it works out that way or not, but where I live unless you plan on moving you are still better off buying than renting if you have decent credit and the ability to foot the down payment.

Hell, the real estate bubble bursting wouldn't even have been that big a deal if it hadn't coincided with a recession and poor bank practices.  I wouldn't call that a perfect storm, but it definitely wasn't a single factor.

I'm in southern ca. owners who rent their properties look to make their mortgage payment and their monthly income from the renter.
the scam (which may have been the wrong word) is the attempt to over value a home at the owners benefit (in my area the average seems to be the peak bubble value, either that or homeowners are heavy with debt & are looking for the big payout).  I understand bank owned property has had its hand in artificially maintaining that inflated value as well.  It just seems to me that (in my area) the bubble burst but the values didn't correct. So i say, don't buy, force the prices into more reasonable areas of affordability.
this is just me wishing, i know there are people out there who would be more than happy to overpay for a piece of shiat property just because they can afford to overpay.


Isn't the alternative to buying going to be supporting the rental market, which affects how high buyers will accept a mortgage, anyways?

I mean I definitely recomend against stretching to make a purchases of course.
 
2013-08-01 04:04:28 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Madbassist1: SCUBA_Archer: If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.

You're an idiot. This is a strawman argument that has been shot down repeatedly and yet this late in the thread you roll it out. People don't line up for wal-mart because they want to do it, you imbecile. They do it because the factory that used to be there is closed and their kid is farking hungry. To continually occupy a sizeable portion of the workforce knowing you can keep your wages ARTIFICIALLY low because social programs make up the difference is treason.

So because a factory closed, another company should be forced to pay the same wages for different types of work (mostly unskilled labor).  How does this even compute?  Why not just have the government pay to keep the factories open with their high paying jobs?


Again with the strawman argument. Quit making up oppositional arguments from whole cloth if you want to have a discussion, unless, of course, you just want to say stupid and irrelevant shiat on the internet.
 
2013-08-01 04:07:25 PM

dr_blasto: This has nothing to do with naivete. Your argument does, however, have lots to do with strawmen. Nobody is asking to pay unskilled workers enough to buy a Benz or a mcmansion. Not every poor person can up and move across country and not everybody can physically work the fields in ND.

Why should we allow corporations to pad their bottom line through the creation of highly profitable enterprises that rely on taxpayers subsidising employee's basic needs?


The corporations didn't set up the rules, they are playing by them.  If you don't want to see social safety nets abused, then make changes there.  Punishing companies who play by the rules is not going to endear them to reducing profit margins or creating more jobs.

And it is naive to just say "Companies make a lot of money.  I want some of that money.  Let's make the government make the companies give me some of that money".  Not how the real world works at all.  And I never stated anything about McMansions or Benzes, but your ideal is for a part time burger flipper job to provide sufficient income to support a family on, correct?
 
2013-08-01 04:09:32 PM

Smackledorfer: Isn't the alternative to buying going to be supporting the rental market, which affects how high buyers will accept a mortgage, anyways?



yes, i complain a lot.
 
2013-08-01 04:11:33 PM

dr_blasto: SCUBA_Archer: Madbassist1: SCUBA_Archer: If people are not willing to do Walmart work for low wages that forces them to rely on social services to survive, then they wouldn't line up 10 deep for job openings.

You're an idiot. This is a strawman argument that has been shot down repeatedly and yet this late in the thread you roll it out. People don't line up for wal-mart because they want to do it, you imbecile. They do it because the factory that used to be there is closed and their kid is farking hungry. To continually occupy a sizeable portion of the workforce knowing you can keep your wages ARTIFICIALLY low because social programs make up the difference is treason.

So because a factory closed, another company should be forced to pay the same wages for different types of work (mostly unskilled labor).  How does this even compute?  Why not just have the government pay to keep the factories open with their high paying jobs?

Again with the strawman argument. Quit making up oppositional arguments from whole cloth if you want to have a discussion, unless, of course, you just want to say stupid and irrelevant shiat on the internet.


You obviously don't know what a strawman argument.  Are you or are you not saying that companies should be forced to pay higher wages?  We can argue separately the definition of "higher wages" but bottom line is that you can't seem to grasp the basic notion that it is not Walmart's job to make sure you live comfortably and within your means.
 
Displayed 50 of 240 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report