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(Mother Jones)   Let's try out the old burger flippers calculator to see if you can survive on fast-food wages. Difficulty: calculated math involved   (motherjones.com) divider line 230
    More: Interesting, living wages, value meals  
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2239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 11:39:54 AM
 
2013-08-01 11:40:43 AM

Aristocles: I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.


We already decimated our manufacturing industry by demanding unrealistic wages for work.  Let's totally ignore this precedent and do it again with our service industry.

Aarontology: ferretman: A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Whether or not it should be, it's the reality of today's service based economy. We've eliminated a lot of manufacturing and industry in America, so service jobs are a lot of what's left. or people have a hard time finding a job in their normal field, and have to take whatever jobs they can find. Sometimes that can mean for a long time.

Would you rather they simply not work because they "shouldn't" try to raise a family or have it become a full time job?

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?


Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.  No company wants to pay an 18 year old with a GED $50 an hour to sweep the floors at the refrigerator manufacturing facility and I can guarantee that we will see the same reduction in workforce on the day that McDonalds is forced to pay $50 an hour to the guy manning the fry baskets.  Businesses want to know how you can MAKE money for them, not cost them dearly in terms of huge wages for no effort.  I'm sure someone of your entrepreneurial spirit could put together a winning combination of cheap food and high wages for its workers and decimate the whole fast food industry.  Liberals would be beating your door down if you did.  What are you waiting for?
 
2013-08-01 11:44:42 AM

SCUBA_Archer: Aristocles: I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.

We already decimated our manufacturing industry by demanding unrealistic wages for work.  Let's totally ignore this precedent and do it again with our service industry.

Aarontology: ferretman: A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Whether or not it should be, it's the reality of today's service based economy. We've eliminated a lot of manufacturing and industry in America, so service jobs are a lot of what's left. or people have a hard time finding a job in their normal field, and have to take whatever jobs they can find. Sometimes that can mean for a long time.

Would you rather they simply not work because they "shouldn't" try to raise a family or have it become a full time job?

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?

Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.  No company wants to pay an 18 year old with a GED $50 an hour to sweep the floors at the refrigerator manufacturing facility and I can guarantee that we will see the same reduction in workforce on the day that McDonalds is forced to pay $50 an hour to the guy manning the fry baskets.  Businesses want to know how you can MAKE money for them, not cost them dearly in terms of huge wages for no effort.  I'm sure someone of your entrepreneurial spirit could put together a winning combination of cheap food and high wages for its workers and decimate the whole fast food industry.  Liberals would be beating your door down if you did.  What are you waiting for?


Remember kids, if you aren't a job creator then you are part of the problem.
 
2013-08-01 11:45:55 AM

SCUBA_Archer: Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc. No company wants to pay an 18 year old with a GED $50 an hour to sweep the floors at the refrigerator manufacturing facility and I can guarantee that we will see the same reduction in workforce on the day that McDonalds is forced to pay $50 an hour to the guy manning the fry baskets. Businesses want to know how you can MAKE money for them, not cost them dearly in terms of huge wages for no effort. I'm sure someone of your entrepreneurial spirit could put together a winning combination of cheap food and high wages for its workers and decimate the whole fast food industry. Liberals would be beating your door down if you did. What are you waiting for?


I like how instead of debating the point, you have to turn "living wage" into $50.00 an hour.

dishonest debating? In my FARK thread? NEVER!!!

/low and stagnant wages are decimating our country right now. 1-6 or 7 people get food stamps.
//the long term ramifications of what is happening now will cripple us for generations.
 
2013-08-01 11:49:07 AM

MisterRonbo: Aristocles: I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.

Minimum wage in Australia: $14.70 (USD)
Unemployment in Australia: 5.6%

Oh, let me guess, you're going to derp about inflation. Big Mac in the US: $4.20   In Australia: $4.96

Guess how many customers of places that pay minimum wage are themselves making minimum wage. Guess what happens to your business when your customers are making a lot more money.


No, I'm not. I'm going to point out the fact that The United States of America is best nation in the history of the world so, of course, we'll have more folks trying to get jobs here than they do in Australia.

"Australia," please. I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
 
2013-08-01 11:50:07 AM

Madbassist1: http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176777498/texas-contractors-say-playing - by-the-rules-doesnt-pay

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/10/176677299/construction-booming-in-texa s- but-many-workers-pay-dearly

DURRRRR


Madbassist1: HURRR DURRR. I'm in Webster Texas as I type this. DURRR. The article I cited just reinforced the point. The original story comes from The Houston Chronicle, which I read Mon-Thurs. durrrr..


As I said , if you're in construction or oilfield and NOT making $20/ hour your an idiot or (as your articles references) ILLEGAL.
 
2013-08-01 11:52:56 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Madbassist1: http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176777498/texas-contractors-say-playing - by-the-rules-doesnt-pay

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/10/176677299/construction-booming-in-texa s- but-many-workers-pay-dearly

DURRRRR

Madbassist1: HURRR DURRR. I'm in Webster Texas as I type this. DURRR. The article I cited just reinforced the point. The original story comes from The Houston Chronicle, which I read Mon-Thurs. durrrr..

As I said , if you're in construction or oilfield and NOT making $20/ hour your an idiot or (as your articles references) ILLEGAL.


What does that have to do with 1: the clear problem of illegal immigrants working for construction companies and 2: said companies not paying benefits?

And if most citizens make $20 working for construction companies but those companies still hire a LOT of illegal immigrants... that's kind of a problem too.
 
2013-08-01 11:53:59 AM

RockofAges: Nobody is asking for $50 for McDonald's employees. How about $12-13?



There are trained professionals (EMT's for instance) that don't earn that in some areas.  Pharm techs who have to have special training, knowledge and continuing education earn that much or a little more, depending on your region.  Imaging techs in some clinics and hospitals don't even earn $20.00 an hour.

If making ice cream cones at Dairy Queen 'should' pay 12-13 an hour, then EVERYONE'S wages should be doubled, if they're a trained professional - that includes auto-mechanics, A/C repairmen or whatever.  Otherwise, that's just ridiculous.

BTW, when are you opening your restaurant?  And when you do, will you be taking suggestions on how to run your business from Fark.com?
 
2013-08-01 11:55:32 AM

MisterRonbo: Minimum wage in Australia: $14.70 (USD)
Unemployment in Australia: 5.6%


That's just combat pay because all wildlife in Australia is designed to kill you.
 
2013-08-01 11:59:41 AM

Neighborhood Watch: There are trained professionals (EMT's for instance) that don't earn that in some areas. Pharm techs who have to have special training, knowledge and continuing education earn that much or a little more, depending on your region. Imaging techs in some clinics and hospitals don't even earn $20.00 an hour.


I bet you couldnt work at McD's. I know I never could. those lines are well oiled machines. You'd have to be well trained to work em.
 
2013-08-01 12:04:25 PM

MugzyBrown: sdd2000: And the incentive to leave welfare for work should be what then, a wage that is insufficient to live on or to feed your family?

How about a person can only collect so many months of welfare in their lifetime?


That's great, combine our 300,000,000+ guns with mobs of people who's only choice is to get a job that doesn't pay the bills. That's a society I want to live in.
 
2013-08-01 12:06:27 PM
I gotta give you all credit. What could have been just raw derp became derp mixed with good points against the really dumb people. Kudos to the smarts, not so much to those who aren't.

Min wages destroy business! The same argument made every time it had increased and yet there are still businesses doing business here. It is almost like a large large consumer base exists in the US that no business really wants to lose.
 
2013-08-01 12:06:40 PM
I don't get why these guys (see your favorite FArk Independents above) are so adamantly in favor of helping widen the wealth gap. It's not like the 1% are ever gonna let any of it trickle down to them.

They're just telling the other slaves to shut up and be grateful Massa don' beat 'em mo'. They's hard times on de' plantation an' Massa caint spare no time fo' yo' foolishness.
 
2013-08-01 12:07:13 PM
I don't understand the argument of Welfare vs. Minimum wage job. In my state, you don't qualify for welfare unless you have dependent children, and even then the maximum amount you are eligible for is 200something a month. You absolutely cannot live off of that amount.

Us single, childless scumbags are royally farked if we don't take the ditch digger or fast food jobs. There are no government programs to help us outside of food stamps (which you are ineligible for if you drive a car that isn't an  old POS).

Can someone please clarify where all these awesome benefits for single, childless, poor/lazy people are?
 
2013-08-01 12:09:20 PM
I'd be speeding to get the fark out of Texas, too.
 
2013-08-01 12:11:20 PM

Soup4Bonnie: I'd be speeding to get the fark out of Texas, too.


/Texas
//sad face
 
2013-08-01 12:12:47 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I don't understand the argument of Welfare vs. Minimum wage job. In my state, you don't qualify for welfare unless you have dependent children, and even then the maximum amount you are eligible for is 200something a month. You absolutely cannot live off of that amount.

Us single, childless scumbags are royally farked if we don't take the ditch digger or fast food jobs. There are no government programs to help us outside of food stamps (which you are ineligible for if you drive a car that isn't an  old POS).

Can someone please clarify where all these awesome benefits for single, childless, poor/lazy people are?


It's in their heads.

In their heads.

GOP
GOP
GOP P P
 
2013-08-01 12:13:21 PM

Aristocles: "Australia," please. I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there


Clearly, you've never partied with Aussie girls. Imagine the bodies of surfer girls (most of 'em, anyway) with the horniness of surfer dudes. And they're very forward.

Just don't try to keep up with them when you're drinking.
 
2013-08-01 12:14:59 PM

dittybopper: Aarontology: I'd rather voluntarily pay a slightly higher price for a good or service than involuntarily have to pay a lot more for welfare,

So if we get higher prices for McDonalds, do we get a tax cut because less welfare?  'Cause if you believe that would actually happen, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Here's what would happen:  A law passes that raises the minimum wage to some "living wage".  At that point, the employers have a few choices to make.  These are some of the things they can do:

1. Raise prices.  This is definitely an option, but not one that customers like, especially a sudden jump.  All of a sudden, instead of costing you $15 to take the family to McDarnOld Hamburgers, it now costs you about $17.50.  So you do it a bit less.

2. Reduce worker hours.  Another option for the employers, and a particularly attractive one in view of both #1 above, and the fact that under a certain number of hours they don't have to pay for benefits.

3. Reduce the number of workers.  Another attractive option.  If you can maintain roughly the same payroll by getting rid of a couple workers, that helps.

4. Reduce portions while maintaining the same prices.

Note that two of those options involve fewer people being employed full time (or employed at all).   So you end up screwing some people so that others can make more money.   Or you bring the hours down so that someone who worked 40 hours at $9 an hour is now working 23 hours at $16 an hour, and bringing home the same paycheck.

And don't think that the employers won't be looking at 2 and 3 very, very hard.  Truthfully, it'll probably be a mix, but at first, the employees this is supposed to "help" are going to get screwed, because the restaurant owners aren't going to want to increase their prices by 17% overnight.


There's a piece of the puzzle you're missing. If suddenly you've got McDonalds paying $15 and hour, then other fast food places will be pressured to similarly compensate workers, and fast food jobs basically being the bottom of the barrel jobs, it will put upward pressure on other low paying jobs to increase wages probably not to $15 an hour, but higher none the less. Yes this will raise the cost of everything a bit, but not by significant degrees since price competition will still exist. What you've got then is a slight increase in the overall cost of living, but that's counteracted by the fact that you've got millions of people making significantly more money than they used to, which means that while prices have gone up, you've disproportionately increased demand. Overall, everyone wins. It's called a bottom-up instead of a top-down economy. It works great for everyone, just look at Australia, their minimum wage is $16.37/hr plus employers must contribute an additional 9% to a retirement fund. Everything there is slightly more expensive, but everyone that works can afford to live with no problems.
 
2013-08-01 12:21:07 PM

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


So if you the only options in your area are no job, fast food, or walmart. You are lazy slackabout not deserving of a decent life. Got It!
 
2013-08-01 12:26:27 PM
I don't see the problem here. According to the calculator in the article, a fast food worker would only have to work 504 hours per week to make what I make. Why are fast food workers so lazy that they can 't work 500+ hours per week? Bums.
 
2013-08-01 12:38:45 PM
so when you yell at someone "get a job you lazy leech, stop takin' ma taxez!" there are stipulations to that?

FTcalculator
A household like yours in California needs to earn $23,295 annually to make a secure yet modest living.

Bwhahhaah!!!! secure? nope, modest? a real stretch of the term.


So, now it's not just "get a job", it's "get a good paying job", like they're available on street corners to whoever asks for one.

good job America, you're an asshole.
 
2013-08-01 12:43:01 PM
I would need to work 157 hours a week at fast food to get my same salary.  If you think that you need more than 11 hours of sleep... per week.... you're a lazy pinko muzzo commie Alinskyistic Maoistic Lennistic Stalinistic Kruschevistic Marxist who sold his bootstraps for some Mentos and a doobie.
 
2013-08-01 12:43:52 PM

my alt's alt's alt: Us single, childless scumbags are royally farked


seriously.  We live in limbo, make just enough not to qualify for state/federal benefits or student loans and not enough attend school to better our chances or to live on.

/unless as Mentioned by Romney, we get a loan from our parents because first of all, everyone has parents & everyone's parents can afford to pay for your living expenses.
 
2013-08-01 12:59:28 PM

hobberwickey: dittybopper: Aarontology: I'd rather voluntarily pay a slightly higher price for a good or service than involuntarily have to pay a lot more for welfare,

So if we get higher prices for McDonalds, do we get a tax cut because less welfare?  'Cause if you believe that would actually happen, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Here's what would happen:  A law passes that raises the minimum wage to some "living wage".  At that point, the employers have a few choices to make.  These are some of the things they can do:

1. Raise prices.  This is definitely an option, but not one that customers like, especially a sudden jump.  All of a sudden, instead of costing you $15 to take the family to McDarnOld Hamburgers, it now costs you about $17.50.  So you do it a bit less.

2. Reduce worker hours.  Another option for the employers, and a particularly attractive one in view of both #1 above, and the fact that under a certain number of hours they don't have to pay for benefits.

3. Reduce the number of workers.  Another attractive option.  If you can maintain roughly the same payroll by getting rid of a couple workers, that helps.

4. Reduce portions while maintaining the same prices.

Note that two of those options involve fewer people being employed full time (or employed at all).   So you end up screwing some people so that others can make more money.   Or you bring the hours down so that someone who worked 40 hours at $9 an hour is now working 23 hours at $16 an hour, and bringing home the same paycheck.

And don't think that the employers won't be looking at 2 and 3 very, very hard.  Truthfully, it'll probably be a mix, but at first, the employees this is supposed to "help" are going to get screwed, because the restaurant owners aren't going to want to increase their prices by 17% overnight.

There's a piece of the puzzle you're missing. If suddenly you've got McDonalds paying $15 and hour, then other fast food places will be pressured to similarly compensate workers, and fast food ...


No, there is another piece of the puzzle he's missing.

5. Operate at a lower profit margin.

Thats not really an option though, cause I do believe (IANAL) that it is illegal to do that in a corporation. Something about maximizing for shareholders or some shiat.
 
2013-08-01 12:59:43 PM

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.



Then we don't get to count these as jobs, and the companies are not "job creators."
 
2013-08-01 01:00:46 PM

coeyagi: I would need to work 157 hours a week at fast food to get my same salary.  If you think that you need more than 11 hours of sleep... per week.... you're a lazy pinko muzzo commie Alinskyistic Maoistic Lennistic Stalinistic Kruschevistic Marxist who sold his bootstraps for some Mentos and a doobie.


Please tell use about your higher degrees, your privileged upbringing, and your deep spiritual connections with the McDonald's workers of the world? Okay?  We'll wait, for a long time, Mr. Approx $32.00 an hour Big Shot Boy.
 
2013-08-01 01:02:19 PM
NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".Keeps showing up in this thread so one simple question:

What does a civilized society do with the people who for one reason or another are only able to get a job in one of these roles?
//food stamps, medicare, subsidized housing etc...now isn't the taxpayer just kicking in some cash so the country can have a "Value-Meal"
 
2013-08-01 01:03:33 PM
Oh, is this another thread where pieces of human trash suggest that working people should not be paid enough to live on from a job they're dedicating their useful working hours to?
 
2013-08-01 01:08:42 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, is this another thread where pieces of human trash suggest that working people should not be paid enough to live on from a job they're dedicating their useful working hours to?


These threads are getting fun aren't they?
 
2013-08-01 01:09:26 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, is this another thread where pieces of human trash suggest that working people should not be paid enough to live on from a job they're dedicating their useful working hours to?


It's more like people who take the low route with their careers and have no aspirations of actually achieving anything in their lives somehow deserve to be paid 2-3 times more than the market will bear.  The other issue is that when their wages go up so do the cost of goods so its eventually a zero sum game.

If you want a living wage... find a skill that is sought after and become good at it.  I've changed careers a number of times due to market changes.
 
2013-08-01 01:09:59 PM
The world needs ditchdiggers too. Society doesn't have to ensure they are miserable.

Seriously in a service economy with the average fast food worker being 30+, either start calling for soylent green, massive socialism, or real wages. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

Hate the poors? Own it and call for their death.
 
2013-08-01 01:13:00 PM

dwrash: A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, is this another thread where pieces of human trash suggest that working people should not be paid enough to live on from a job they're dedicating their useful working hours to?

It's more like people who take the low route with their careers and have no aspirations of actually achieving anything in their lives somehow deserve to be paid 2-3 times more than the market will bear.  The other issue is that when their wages go up so do the cost of goods so its eventually a zero sum game.

If you want a living wage... find a skill that is sought after and become good at it.  I've changed careers a number of times due to market changes.


if by the "market" you mean corporate salaries, well then that statement makes more sense.
 
2013-08-01 01:14:05 PM

dwrash: It's more like people who take the low route with their careers and have no aspirations of actually achieving anything in their lives somehow deserve to be paid 2-3 times more than the market will bear. The other issue is that when their wages go up so do the cost of goods so its eventually a zero sum game.

If you want a living wage... find a skill that is sought after and become good at it. I've changed careers a number of times due to market changes.


Why do people continue to spew complete bullshiat from their mouths? I just don't understand it.
 
2013-08-01 01:17:41 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Why do you have such a hard time understanding that nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.


If a company wants to turn a profit and succeed using the fruits of our society, things like public education, roadways, legal system and whatnot, that company has to play by the rules of that society.

No company should be allowed to bolster their bottom-line by requiring taxpayers to subsidise their low wages with public assistance. Yet, these corporations do this wantonly, they count on the fact that you and I will cover their extra profit. It is complete bullshiat--you provide an hour of your life to some corporation? You should be paid a living wage. Nobody expects them to get rich.

While it is important to provide social and economic safety nets, there's no reason those should be used to enhance profit for Walmart and Mcdonalds.
 
2013-08-01 01:19:10 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Why do you have such a hard time understanding that under capitalism nobody owes you a job, living wage, etc.


Fixed for accuracy.
 
2013-08-01 01:20:42 PM

MrBallou: I don't get why these guys (see your favorite FArk Independents above) are so adamantly in favor of helping widen the wealth gap. It's not like the 1% are ever gonna let any of it trickle down to them.

They're just telling the other slaves to shut up and be grateful Massa don' beat 'em mo'. They's hard times on de' plantation an' Massa caint spare no time fo' yo' foolishness.


How does raising McDonald's employees wages have any affect what so ever on the 1%? The owners aren't going to eat the costs. They will simply up the prices of their food, and effectively you will take from one poor person's hand to give to another. Not many 1% come in and hit the value meal for lunch.
 
2013-08-01 01:23:29 PM
You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'
 
2013-08-01 01:26:23 PM

bikerific: dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


Then we don't get to count these as jobs, and the companies are not "job creators."


THIS
 
2013-08-01 01:26:53 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


Your day sounds like a blast.  But today, in the real world, student debt is crippling younger people.  There aren't as many readily available jobs so some times people have to settle for anything while keeping their job search up.

Fark you and fark back in your day.
 
2013-08-01 01:26:55 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


That was before we lost unskilled factory jobs that could support a family, house, car, and retirement savings.
 
2013-08-01 01:31:07 PM
if you start a sentence with "back in my day", it's best to just stop it
 
2013-08-01 01:31:10 PM

FarkedOver: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

Your day sounds like a blast.  But today, in the real world, student debt is crippling younger people.  There aren't as many readily available jobs so some times people have to settle for anything while keeping their job search up.

Fark you and fark back in your day.


You seem a little testy today, comrade.
 
2013-08-01 01:32:32 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


Yeah, and back in my day a high school had an auto shop, a metal shop and a wood shop. Now, the classes I took in my high school are no longer offered, since they shut down the auto shop, metal shop and wood shop. Used to be you could go from high school to blue collar manufacturing, fabrication or construction with no need for a secondary degree.

Too bad too many assholes decided that they should short-change the education system in order to push a bullshiat private institution model which has turned into a program built to extract money from people with federally backed loans while giving them virtually nothing in return.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:20 PM

Smackledorfer: The world needs ditchdiggers too. Society doesn't have to ensure they are miserable.

Seriously in a service economy with the average fast food worker being 30+, either start calling for soylent green, massive socialism, or real wages. Anything else is kicking the can down the road.

Hate the poors? Own it and call for their death.


Ditch digging is a union job, and the work of 20 men is done with one ore more of these babies now

perishablepress.com

us.123rf.com
 
2013-08-01 01:36:48 PM

Aristocles: You seem a little testy today, comrade.


Never regarding you sweetheart! :)

xoxoxo
 
2013-08-01 01:37:13 PM

dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'


yeah & i assume back in your day you could purchase a house in Burbank Ca. for 27K and a car for under 4K, I bet tuition for education was affordable too!  nowadays as we move more towards a service based economy, jobs aren't used to make examples of how not to live, they are a means of income.
 
2013-08-01 01:37:47 PM

Aristocles: FarkedOver: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

Your day sounds like a blast.  But today, in the real world, student debt is crippling younger people.  There aren't as many readily available jobs so some times people have to settle for anything while keeping their job search up.

Fark you and fark back in your day.

You seem a little testy today, comrade.


Maybe a few button-pushings at the fry machine's behest will placate Farkover's  intellectual needs for the near future.
 
2013-08-01 01:38:36 PM

lantawa: Maybe a few button-pushings at the fry machine's behest will placate Farkover's intellectual needs for the near future.


Who am I kidding, I am so clumsy if I tried to operate the fry machine I'd start a 3 alarm grease fire.
 
2013-08-01 01:41:43 PM

Isitoveryet: dragonfire77: You know, back in my day, those 'burger-flippers' were held up as 'examples justifying higher education', not as 'noble work worth a middle class wage'

yeah & i assume back in your day you could purchase a house in Burbank Ca. for 27K and a car for under 4K, I bet tuition for education was affordable too!  nowadays as we move more towards a service based economy, jobs aren't used to make examples of how not to live, they are a means of income.


I'm only 36...I came out of college and started on an assembly line (Yes, double degree in physics and Com Sci, working on a PCB assembly line) I knew I didn't want to stay there...I didn't expect to earn any kind of decent wage from there.  I used it to move up the ranks into the engineering department.

Your low wage job is only a dead-end if you let it be.  Use it as a springboard to something better.

And for the record, when I got out of college, average house was around 130K in my area.  Now it's around 200...
 
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