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(Mother Jones)   Let's try out the old burger flippers calculator to see if you can survive on fast-food wages. Difficulty: calculated math involved   (motherjones.com) divider line 230
    More: Interesting, living wages, value meals  
•       •       •

2239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:35 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 10:03:20 AM

ikanreed: Your phrasing totally gives away another website you're a member of.  I think, anyways


what
 
2013-08-01 10:03:38 AM

sdd2000: And the incentive to leave welfare for work should be what then, a wage that is insufficient to live on or to feed your family?


How about a person can only collect so many months of welfare in their lifetime?
 
2013-08-01 10:08:12 AM

Aarontology: I'd rather voluntarily pay a slightly higher price for a good or service than involuntarily have to pay a lot more for welfare,


So if we get higher prices for McDonalds, do we get a tax cut because less welfare?  'Cause if you believe that would actually happen, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Here's what would happen:  A law passes that raises the minimum wage to some "living wage".  At that point, the employers have a few choices to make.  These are some of the things they can do:

1. Raise prices.  This is definitely an option, but not one that customers like, especially a sudden jump.  All of a sudden, instead of costing you $15 to take the family to McDarnOld Hamburgers, it now costs you about $17.50.  So you do it a bit less.

2. Reduce worker hours.  Another option for the employers, and a particularly attractive one in view of both #1 above, and the fact that under a certain number of hours they don't have to pay for benefits.

3. Reduce the number of workers.  Another attractive option.  If you can maintain roughly the same payroll by getting rid of a couple workers, that helps.

4. Reduce portions while maintaining the same prices.

Note that two of those options involve fewer people being employed full time (or employed at all).   So you end up screwing some people so that others can make more money.   Or you bring the hours down so that someone who worked 40 hours at $9 an hour is now working 23 hours at $16 an hour, and bringing home the same paycheck.

And don't think that the employers won't be looking at 2 and 3 very, very hard.  Truthfully, it'll probably be a mix, but at first, the employees this is supposed to "help" are going to get screwed, because the restaurant owners aren't going to want to increase their prices by 17% overnight.
 
2013-08-01 10:10:11 AM
McDonalds has averaged roughly $5 billion in profits each year for the last 5 years.

Its CEO made from $10 million to $17 million each year between 2008 and 2010.

Its workers make minimum age at an average of 25 hours per week.
 
2013-08-01 10:10:31 AM

Pincy: dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

Well, find us a way to get back all those living wage jobs we used to have here in this country that are now being done by slaves in some third world hell hole and maybe people won't need to depend on burger flipping for their livelihood.


That's pretty simple.  Revoke "normal trade relations" with the People's Republic of China.
 
2013-08-01 10:13:13 AM

Headso: ferretman: My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Do you have such low self esteem that you believe your accomplishments can be achieved by anyone or are you just  willfully obtuse to the fact that some people are not capable of jobs beyond unskilled labor?


My accomplishments weren't much...it's called working to better oneself....which almost anyone else is capable of if they work at it. Problem is lots of people want things handed to them with as little effort as possible.
 
2013-08-01 10:14:45 AM

raerae1980: Yes, or museums, environmental firms, hospitals, Coroner's offices/Medical Examiner....

Your point being...?


Not the largest job market items out there. I don't begrudge you in your studies...on the contrary I applaud your earning your degrees. However, you seem surprised if not a bit pissed that there are slim pickins in your chosen field.
 
2013-08-01 10:15:15 AM

RockofAges: Where I come from (btw, just as "good ol' boy" as the southern U.S.) we're raised to treat all workers, people who get up and go to work, with respect.


What are you, a communist?
 
2013-08-01 10:19:25 AM
If a  liberal like Nixon hadn't killed American manufacturing with the EPA we'd all have a lot more options for employment and the overall economy would be doing much better.
 
2013-08-01 10:20:07 AM

RockofAges: dittybopper: monoski: Not sure if you are trolling or just naive and don't understand that there are adults out there who do work in fast food as a primary job.

Oh, I understand that.  I also understand that the people who do that aren't going to end up doing much better if you pay them more, because they lack anything approaching the planning skills required to actually make a decent living.

My sister used to be one of those people.  She spent something like 20 *YEARS* working at various McDonalds.  And it was her own damned fault for doing so.  She didn't look past the next paycheck, so she got stuck in a job like that.  For decades.

Paying people more money, when the fact that they are stuck in such a job shows their complete and utter lack of planning for the future beyond the next week, isn't really going to help them.  You're better off taking that extra money and spending it on education.

fark you, dude. No, seriously. You, DIA, and that other elitist prick in this thread are seriously the worst representatives of "how to raise a boy into a man" ever. Where I come from (btw, just as "good ol' boy" as the southern U.S.) we're raised to treat all workers, people who get up and go to work, with respect. Frankly, I have more respect for burger flippers and janitors than I do many professional class individuals -- the working class sweats a whole lot more ("real work") than a lot of you pompous assholes.

Honestly, if anyone talked that kind of shiat about minimum wage workers in most places in Atlantic Canada, they would probably get a serious dressing down, and if they kept it up, a slap across the face for being so immensely disrespectful towards people who are working hard to contribute to our society.

I find your morals and lack of ethics, as well as personal narcissism (DIA being guilty of it almost always) to be disgusting. I hope you never propogate your ideas or beliefs to anyone who could be corrupted by your lack of humanity and manhood.

Basically ...


Welcome to the new neo-Edwardian/Victorian class system, where the moneyed are seen as genuinely morally superior and the betters to everyone else and the lower classes should be seen and not heard. Although wealthy households in Edwardian England still paid their servants decently, or at least gave them a home. By constantly telling ourselves that poor people deserve it and that they're inferior because of it, we're reinforcing a centuries-old class-based concept with no upward mobility.
 
2013-08-01 10:21:11 AM

dittybopper: Aarontology: I'd rather voluntarily pay a slightly higher price for a good or service than involuntarily have to pay a lot more for welfare,

So if we get higher prices for McDonalds, do we get a tax cut because less welfare?  'Cause if you believe that would actually happen, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Here's what would happen:  A law passes that raises the minimum wage to some "living wage".  At that point, the employers have a few choices to make.  These are some of the things they can do:

1. Raise prices.  This is definitely an option, but not one that customers like, especially a sudden jump.  All of a sudden, instead of costing you $15 to take the family to McDarnOld Hamburgers, it now costs you about $17.50.  So you do it a bit less.

2. Reduce worker hours.  Another option for the employers, and a particularly attractive one in view of both #1 above, and the fact that under a certain number of hours they don't have to pay for benefits.

3. Reduce the number of workers.  Another attractive option.  If you can maintain roughly the same payroll by getting rid of a couple workers, that helps.

4. Reduce portions while maintaining the same prices.

Note that two of those options involve fewer people being employed full time (or employed at all).   So you end up screwing some people so that others can make more money.   Or you bring the hours down so that someone who worked 40 hours at $9 an hour is now working 23 hours at $16 an hour, and bringing home the same paycheck.

And don't think that the employers won't be looking at 2 and 3 very, very hard.  Truthfully, it'll probably be a mix, but at first, the employees this is supposed to "help" are going to get screwed, because the restaurant owners aren't going to want to increase their prices by 17% overnight.


That was the argument that killed off COLA minimum wage increases during our short period of stagflation in the 70s.
It is valid if and only if the wage increase is more than wiped out by price increases.
It isn't valid on the math side.
It is only valid if unions are deader than doornails as a balancing economic force, as evidenced by CxO compensation.
Unions are dead as a balancing economic force.

Debbie Stabenow had a plan to bring back real jobs. Guess who killed it. C'mon, guess.
 
2013-08-01 10:23:31 AM

imontheinternet: McDonalds has averaged roughly $5 billion in profits each year for the last 5 years.

Its CEO made from $10 million to $17 million each year between 2008 and 2010.

Its workers make minimum age at an average of 25 hours per week.


it is almost as if companies exist to generate revenue, profit, make money etc....and that they don't exist to create jobs for everyone.

When a Mcdonalds worker gets 15$ an hour what happens to everyone elses wage who was in a similar un skilled labor type position? Like a gas station attendant or a grocery store cashier, or the drone manning the phones at the utility company?

What happens to the value of a dollar? The price of goods since everyone doing unskilled labor has just doubled their salaries. What about the wage of the college grad working in their field for 15$ an hour...since now unskilled labor is getting the same amount in wages? Do you increase his salary? What about the people with masters degrees who find out that people with bachelor degrees can get their wage?...etc
 
2013-08-01 10:27:16 AM

UberDave: I think their living wage calculator is a bit off.  For two adults and one child in my area they say $56,000.  MIT's calculator says $37,500.  That would still suck for flipping burgers but they don't have to over exaggerate.  Maybe it's because they are not specific to the county like the MIT calculator.


It claimed a household of four in Buffalo-Niagara Falls needed $75,592 to earn a comfortable living.  For crying out loud, you can buy a comfortable house around here for $75k.
 
2013-08-01 10:28:18 AM

LordZorch: Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.

It takes dedicated work to be as stupid as you are.  You must be a "progressive"....


If you realized how ignorant that post was, you'd probably end your life in shame.
 
2013-08-01 10:28:40 AM

Giltric: imontheinternet: McDonalds has averaged roughly $5 billion in profits each year for the last 5 years.

Its CEO made from $10 million to $17 million each year between 2008 and 2010.

Its workers make minimum age at an average of 25 hours per week.

it is almost as if companies exist to generate revenue, profit, make money etc....and that they don't exist to create jobs for everyone.

When a Mcdonalds worker gets 15$ an hour what happens to everyone elses wage who was in a similar un skilled labor type position? Like a gas station attendant or a grocery store cashier, or the drone manning the phones at the utility company?

What happens to the value of a dollar? The price of goods since everyone doing unskilled labor has just doubled their salaries. What about the wage of the college grad working in their field for 15$ an hour...since now unskilled labor is getting the same amount in wages? Do you increase his salary? What about the people with masters degrees who find out that people with bachelor degrees can get their wage?...etc


You know, you might have a point there. Might.
If wages were the only cost factor in production.

/Hint: Wages are not the only cost factor in production. Doubling wages does not double COGS, not even in a service economy.
 
2013-08-01 10:30:16 AM

RockofAges: dittybopper: monoski: Not sure if you are trolling or just naive and don't understand that there are adults out there who do work in fast food as a primary job.

Oh, I understand that.  I also understand that the people who do that aren't going to end up doing much better if you pay them more, because they lack anything approaching the planning skills required to actually make a decent living.

My sister used to be one of those people.  She spent something like 20 *YEARS* working at various McDonalds.  And it was her own damned fault for doing so.  She didn't look past the next paycheck, so she got stuck in a job like that.  For decades.

Paying people more money, when the fact that they are stuck in such a job shows their complete and utter lack of planning for the future beyond the next week, isn't really going to help them.  You're better off taking that extra money and spending it on education.

fark you, dude. No, seriously. You, DIA, and that other elitist prick in this thread are seriously the worst representatives of "how to raise a boy into a man" ever. Where I come from (btw, just as "good ol' boy" as the southern U.S.) we're raised to treat all workers, people who get up and go to work, with respect. Frankly, I have more respect for burger flippers and janitors than I do many professional class individuals -- the working class sweats a whole lot more ("real work") than a lot of you pompous assholes.

Honestly, if anyone talked that kind of shiat about minimum wage workers in most places in Atlantic Canada, they would probably get a serious dressing down, and if they kept it up, a slap across the face for being so immensely disrespectful towards people who are working hard to contribute to our society.

I find your morals and lack of ethics, as well as personal narcissism (DIA being guilty of it almost always) to be disgusting. I hope you never propogate your ideas or beliefs to anyone who could be corrupted by your lack of humanity and manhood.

Basically, a bunch of pasty white guy big shots who think they are tougher than anyone else until the shiat REALLY goes down, then you are exposed as a gaggle of spineless wannabes.


Your low respect for professionals is terrible. Go ahead, tell your doctor or accountant or lawyer that their work does not contribute to making your life better because they don't sweat

Class warfare people like you are disgusting
 
2013-08-01 10:35:20 AM

Bloody William: Welcome to the new neo-Edwardian/Victorian class system, where the moneyed are seen as genuinely morally superior and the betters to everyone else and the lower classes should be seen and not heard.


They aren't morally superior.  In fact, they are often morally inferior.

It's got nothing to do with *MORALS* and everything to do with how you handle money and plan for the future.

I mean, really, it's not that complex of a concept.  If you don't know how to handle money, you'll get stuck in a dead-end, low wage job, and you'll be barely scraping by.

If you have better money handling skills, and you have some ability to plan for the future, you'll end up in the middle class.

If you have excellent money handling skills, and a bunch of foresight, you'll end up rich.

It's not hereditary, either, but it *LOOKS* that way because you learn this sort of thing largely from your parents, just like you learn most of your other cultural norms from them.
 
2013-08-01 10:36:22 AM

RockofAges: tenpoundsofcheese:

I don't have a lawyer, or an accountant, and my doctor is paid entirely via public revenue.


So go tell your doctor that he doesn't contribute because he doesn't sweat

It doesn't matter how he is paid
 
2013-08-01 10:36:47 AM
Y'roll 16 tonnes, and what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the Company Store.

There are people in this thread that think this was a GOOD thing.
 
2013-08-01 10:37:13 AM
Anyone else utterly exhausted of the constant, unending refrain from conservatives that:

1. Lazy people are ruining this country and need to get a job
2. Just because you have a job doesn't mean it should pay you enough to live, so get a second job and work 80+ hours a week to make ends meet
3. If you people working 80+ hours on your feet just worked a little harder, you wouldn't be so poor
4. If you don't want to be poor anymore, take the extra time after your 80+ hours a week to go to school which you can surely afford on $500/week from your two jobs
5. If you went to school for the "wrong major" you deserve to still be working those 80+ hour weeks and it's your own fault that you now have non-dischargeable student loans.

The game is so goddamn rigged against the working poor that if I ever found myself in that situation I'm pretty sure I'd just go ahead and kill myself right out instead of slowly working myself to death with no end in sight.
 
2013-08-01 10:37:32 AM

RockofAges: tenpoundsofcheese:

And you're the biggest troll on Fark. Sad story / got a smoke?


And once again your only contribution is a personal attack

That is trolling behavior and a violation of the TOS
 
2013-08-01 10:38:55 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Come to Texas. I can find you work...I must warn you though, it's real work.


Yup in Texas you can do heavy construction on fast food wages!

/not kidding.
 
2013-08-01 10:43:10 AM

Giltric: it is almost as if companies exist to generate revenue, profit, make money etc....and that they don't exist to create jobs for everyone.


But I thought Capitalism and the Free Market were the solution to all of our problems?
 
2013-08-01 10:44:01 AM

RockofAges: There is a serious sociopathy involved with denigrating those who work hardest for the least money and I find it to be the same despicable quality found in the common schoolyard bully -- yuppy or otherwise.


I hope you aren't including me in that:  I'm not denigrating people so much as pointing out the obvious:  If you have decent money handling skills, and the ability to plan for the future and implement that plan, the chances that you'll be chronically poor are greatly reduced.

Now, I've been sporadically poor, which isn't the same thing as being chronically poor, and I've worked a minimum wage job when I was in my 20's for a short time, but I didn't *STAY* there.   It's also unlikely that I'll ever be rich, because I wasn't raised by rich parents, and I don't have the money handling skillset that comes with being rich.  By the same token, I doubt, absent some major catastrophic life event that makes me incapable of using my brain*, that I would fall into the chronically poor category.  It's not that I'm somehow morally superior to those who are, I just have better training in the skills needed to maintain a middle class lifestyle.  That's all, but it's enough.

*Which does happen, but not as often as we would be led to believe.  The majority of the chronically poor were raised poor, and thus never learned the skills needed to pull themselves out of poverty.
 
2013-08-01 10:46:07 AM

Madbassist1: Yup in Texas you can do heavy construction on fast food wages!


You're doing it wrong then.
 
2013-08-01 10:46:24 AM
No one forces anyone to flip burgers at Jack-In-The-Box or make ice cream cones at Dairy Queen.  You don't HAVE to work there and guess what else?  They don't have to hire you or even create the business in the first place.

Here's a question:  How come a low rank recruit in the armed forces (a PFC, for example) isn't paid 'a living wage', yet fighter pilots and officers on nuclear submarines receive huge retention bonuses?  Is the government just one, giant, evil CEO... you know, like the CEO of Arby's?
 
2013-08-01 10:47:01 AM

Bloody William: Headso: ferretman: My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Do you have such low self esteem that you believe your accomplishments can be achieved by anyone or are you just  willfully obtuse to the fact that some people are not capable of jobs beyond unskilled labor?

Step 1: The world needs ditch-diggers too.

Step 2: Ditch-diggers have bills to pay and families to feed.

Economics conservatives stop at step 1.


THIS

You're asking a person to give you 8 hours of his day doing what you need done, but, because you declare it a "shiat job", you say he shouldn't expect to be compensated for his time. If he had a non-shiat job, it'd be OK, but since this is a shiat job, it is OK to expect him to not make enough to cover his living costs for the work day he just gave you.

EABOD with fries, jerb creators
 
2013-08-01 10:47:24 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: RockofAges: tenpoundsofcheese:

And you're the biggest troll on Fark. Sad story / got a smoke?

And once again your only contribution is a personal attack

That is trolling behavior and a violation of the TOS



Tpoc. No one here likes you. It's obvious. It's time for you to move on to greener pastures where you can frolic with others if your kind.

Try the free republic, or hope and change comics. You'll feel better as people there will be more accepting of your bullshiat.

Oh no, don't give me the, "Im a brave trooper, here to open the eyes of Libs" line.

I promise you, that you have never once, changed someone's mind to your side of view. Not once. I can however say with decent certainty that you have convinced people to side against you on issues because your arguments are crap.

So, in closing... Just go Tpoc, just go.
 
2013-08-01 10:48:34 AM

dittybopper: If you have better money handling skills, and you have some ability to plan for the future, you'll end up in the middle class.

If you have excellent money handling skills, and a bunch of foresight, you'll end up rich.

It's not hereditary, either, but it *LOOKS* that way because you learn this sort of thing largely from your parents, just like you learn most of your other cultural norms from them.


LOL straight from the University of Pulled It Out Of My Ass.
 
2013-08-01 10:48:41 AM

Neighborhood Watch: No one forces anyone to flip burgers at Jack-In-The-Box or make ice cream cones at Dairy Queen.  You don't HAVE to work there and guess what else?  They don't have to hire you or even create the business in the first place.

Here's a question:  How come a low rank recruit in the armed forces (a PFC, for example) isn't paid 'a living wage', yet fighter pilots and officers on nuclear submarines receive huge retention bonuses?  Is the government just one, giant, evil CEO... you know, like the CEO of Arby's?


PFCs in the Army (and equivalents) generally don't have to worry about paying for food or rent, as it is provided by the service.
 
2013-08-01 10:49:06 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Class warfare people like you are disgusting


Class warfare has been waged on the working and lower class since forever.  It's only called class warfare when they decide to fight back.
 
2013-08-01 10:50:05 AM

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?



THIS!!!

Adults trying to make a living working as a burger flipper are like creepy old men trying to hook up at college bars
 
2013-08-01 10:50:23 AM

Giltric: imontheinternet: McDonalds has averaged roughly $5 billion in profits each year for the last 5 years.

Its CEO made from $10 million to $17 million each year between 2008 and 2010.

Its workers make minimum age at an average of 25 hours per week.

it is almost as if companies exist to generate revenue, profit, make money etc....and that they don't exist to create jobs for everyone.

When a Mcdonalds worker gets 15$ an hour what happens to everyone elses wage who was in a similar un skilled labor type position? Like a gas station attendant or a grocery store cashier, or the drone manning the phones at the utility company?

What happens to the value of a dollar? The price of goods since everyone doing unskilled labor has just doubled their salaries. What about the wage of the college grad working in their field for 15$ an hour...since now unskilled labor is getting the same amount in wages? Do you increase his salary? What about the people with masters degrees who find out that people with bachelor degrees can get their wage?...etc


Do you really think a company or even an entire industry raising its wages is going to have more of an impact on inflation than QE and other Fed policies that drown the banks and their cohorts in liquidity?

I have news for you.  The prices are already up there.  Gas has more than doubled, food is skyrocketing, healthcare is through the damn roof.  The list goes on.  High prices and inflation march on, and the one thing that has remained stagnant is workers' wages.

Yes, the price for everything would go up marginally more than it was already going to go up if you start paying people a living wage.  Those people will also be able to afford to buy things and spend their money on more than bills and paying interest on debts.  You'll see an explosion of demand in this country, which is exactly what is needed to lift us out of this economic slump.
 
2013-08-01 10:50:36 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Your low respect for professionals is terrible. Go ahead, tell your doctor or accountant or lawyer that their work does not contribute to making your life better because they don't sweat

Class warfare people like you are disgusting


I stand in awe of you tenpoundsofcheese-ness. Do you have to pause while typing this stuff to laugh?
 
2013-08-01 10:53:24 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Madbassist1: Yup in Texas you can do heavy construction on fast food wages!

You're doing it wrong then.


LOL right. Do some research. Texas contractors chronically abuse wage laws, dont give its employees benefits, (heavy construction without benefits???) And most times flat out just hires aliens for cash.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/immigration/b/outsidenews/ar ch ive/2013/04/11/construction-in-texas-workers-underpaid-contractors-ski rting-the-law.aspx

Don't let my hard facts get in the way of your Derp, good sir.
 
2013-08-01 10:53:26 AM

Neighborhood Watch: No one forces anyone to flip burgers at Jack-In-The-Box or make ice cream cones at Dairy Queen. You don't HAVE to work there and guess what else? They don't have to hire you or even create the business in the first place.


Another example of the "don't take the job if it doesn't pay enough" argument.  Seriously, is this a new GOP talking point?
 
2013-08-01 10:54:44 AM
The problem isn't that the minimum wage is too low. The problem is there aren't enough 2nd and 3rd tier jobs available that pay better.

The soultion isn't to force the  bottom to  pay more. That's short sighted and not correcting the problem.  The soultion is to create jobs that will pay more, that are worth more.   Back in the 80's when this was occuring, the computer industry exploded creating entire new markets.  In the 90's real estate and internet booms.   Where's the next market growth and how can the United States particpate in that market?
 
2013-08-01 10:56:47 AM

Danger Mouse: The soultion isn't to force the bottom to pay more. That's short sighted and not correcting the problem. The soultion is to create jobs that will pay more, that are worth more. Back in the 80's when this was occuring, the computer industry exploded creating entire new markets. In the 90's real estate and internet booms. Where's the next market growth and how can the United States particpate in that market?


That sounds intelligent and reasonable. Get the fark out of this thread, asshole!
 
2013-08-01 10:57:12 AM

RockofAges: No, what you "inherit" from your parents is their estate, and their assets.


I have yet to inherit either from my parents, as both are still alive and kicking, but for the better part of 18 years now, I've maintained a middle class lifestyle.
 
2013-08-01 10:58:03 AM

RockofAges: Your points are all anecdotal evidence and musings about your own life. Your "simple observations" are basically just projection of your own bare assertions. The latent "what's good for me is good for everyone else" underpinnings of your arguments lend themselves to massive amounts of critique because they are so unrepresentative of the actual workforce, or what it's like to actually be a member of the working class. Basically, you're like the soccer mom talking about the "evils of the maryjauauna" -- someone who uses "common sense" but has no actual long-term association or depth of knowledge making projective proclamations.

Basically you are embarassingly off base because you are attempting to pour yourself into everyone else's shoes instead of actually empathizing and understanding the realities of others.


+1
 
2013-08-01 11:00:18 AM

dittybopper: NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".


Yes.

They.

Should.
 
2013-08-01 11:05:45 AM

Freudian_slipknot: Anyone else utterly exhausted of the constant, unending refrain from conservatives that:

1. Lazy people are ruining this country and need to get a job
2. Just because you have a job doesn't mean it should pay you enough to live, so get a second job and work 80+ hours a week to make ends meet
3. If you people working 80+ hours on your feet just worked a little harder, you wouldn't be so poor
4. If you don't want to be poor anymore, take the extra time after your 80+ hours a week to go to school which you can surely afford on $500/week from your two jobs
5. If you went to school for the "wrong major" you deserve to still be working those 80+ hour weeks and it's your own fault that you now have non-dischargeable student loans.

The game is so goddamn rigged against the working poor that if I ever found myself in that situation I'm pretty sure I'd just go ahead and kill myself right out instead of slowly working myself to death with no end in sight.


We could employee more people if individuals did not have to work two jobs to make ends meet.
 
2013-08-01 11:07:25 AM
Saw a story on FOX yesterday. It was all about how Obama is an ass for suggesting the 7,000 jobs to be created by some pipeline pay a living wage. The story went on to blast the Washington DC city council for insisting that if a Wal-Mart open in their neighborhood that those jobs pay a decent wage as well.

The reporter's position? Basically, "You should be lucky you have any jobs at all. Take it and like it"

Derp indeed.
 
2013-08-01 11:08:35 AM

dittybopper: It's not hereditary, either, but it *LOOKS* that way


*BZZZZT*
You chose poorly. This commie pinko and his commie-symp compadres at the Chicago FED has made a career of calling BS on that stinker.
 
2013-08-01 11:14:50 AM

Madbassist1: LOL right. Do some research. Texas contractors chronically abuse wage laws, dont give its employees benefits, (heavy construction without benefits???) And most times flat out just hires aliens for cash.


LOL I live here. Where there might be some contractors hiring illegals as framers and roofers, if you're making less than $20/hour in construction and or the oilfield you're a farking idiot...or illegal.

Madbassist1: Don't let my hard facts get in the way of your Derp, good sir.


Huuurrrr durrrr. Why not pack your happy ass from Dayton and come see for yourself rather than relying on cherry picked "facts" from the "Workers Defense Project".
 
2013-08-01 11:15:36 AM

Madbassist1: Saw a story on FOX yesterday. It was all about how Obama is an ass for suggesting the 7,000 jobs to be created by some pipeline pay a living wage. The story went on to blast the Washington DC city council for insisting that if a Wal-Mart open in their neighborhood that those jobs pay a decent wage as well.

The reporter's position? Basically, "You should be lucky you have any jobs at all. Take it and like it"

Derp indeed.


The reporter is right, unemployment has been at record highs in this Obama Economy.
 
2013-08-01 11:29:30 AM

dittybopper: If you have decent money handling skills, and the ability to plan for the future and implement that plan, the chances that you'll be chronically poor are greatly reduced.


And those who are never taught those things, or aren't born with the mental capacity to fully "get" those things should just deal with the fact that they get to live in poverty because they didn't fall out of the right vagina and weren't born bright enough to learn them on their own?

Back when I worked those kinds of jobs, I worked with people who absolutely busted their asses and were absolute model employees.  They put in more effort and caring and quality hard work than I would ever be willing or able to do, especially dealing with people or being on my feet for 8+ hours a day.

But some of them were just not born especially bright.  Not developmentally delayed or handicapped, but just below average intellectually.  No amount of teaching was ever going to give them the capacity for strong logic or strategic planning.  And that's completely fine.

But they SHOULD expect that their hard work, even at "menial" or "unskilled" work, should provide a living for them at the end of the day.

My job now pays me over four times as much as I ever made at those jobs.  And I have no "skills" to speak of other than being a middle class white girl who happened to be born to a solid family who taught me life skills before I left the house and a somewhat above-average IQ.  I was trained in this work on the job after college - which I could afford to attend due to that above-average IQ getting me scholarships.    And I work a quarter as hard as I did at those jobs.  Maybe less.

How is that something that we should support or accept?
 
2013-08-01 11:33:45 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Madbassist1: LOL right. Do some research. Texas contractors chronically abuse wage laws, dont give its employees benefits, (heavy construction without benefits???) And most times flat out just hires aliens for cash.

LOL I live here. Where there might be some contractors hiring illegals as framers and roofers, if you're making less than $20/hour in construction and or the oilfield you're a farking idiot...or illegal.

Madbassist1: Don't let my hard facts get in the way of your Derp, good sir.

Huuurrrr durrrr. Why not pack your happy ass from Dayton and come see for yourself rather than relying on cherry picked "facts" from the "Workers Defense Project".


HURRR DURRR. I'm in Webster Texas as I type this. DURRR. The article I cited just reinforced the point. The original story comes from The Houston Chronicle, which I read Mon-Thurs. durrrr..
 
2013-08-01 11:37:35 AM

Aristocles: I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.


Minimum wage in Australia: $14.70 (USD)
Unemployment in Australia: 5.6%

Oh, let me guess, you're going to derp about inflation. Big Mac in the US: $4.20   In Australia: $4.96

Guess how many customers of places that pay minimum wage are themselves making minimum wage. Guess what happens to your business when your customers are making a lot more money.
 
2013-08-01 11:39:06 AM

Danger Mouse: The solution is to create jobs that will pay more, that are worth more.



Yeah, that's what politicians DO!
 
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