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(Mother Jones)   Let's try out the old burger flippers calculator to see if you can survive on fast-food wages. Difficulty: calculated math involved   (motherjones.com) divider line 230
    More: Interesting, living wages, value meals  
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2239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 08:10:39 AM  
Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.
 
2013-08-01 08:19:49 AM  
Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.
 
2013-08-01 08:20:14 AM  
All my life, I wanted to be the guy who walks around with a sign that says "The End is Near" but it just doesn't pay a living wage.
 
2013-08-01 08:46:28 AM  

dittybopper: NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE". If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage". If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


Would you rather pay for people's welfare or pay them enough to be relatively self sufficient, to not qualify for welfare, and be able to put more money into the consumer economy?

That's basically what the choice boils down to when people demand that these sorts of jobs pay low enough wages that we the tax payer have to pick up the tab for a businesses low wages and poor benefits, thus using us as an indirect subsidy for their profits.

If you don't think that these jobs deserve a good wage, that's fine. Just don't complain when the government takes your money, because ultimately, you're choosing the latter because of your belief in the former.
 
2013-08-01 08:55:16 AM  
Why would I want to try and make it on a burger flippers salary?

/if I had wanted to do that, I would have gotten a degree in humanities.
 
2013-08-01 08:59:53 AM  

Aarontology: dittybopper: NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE". If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage". If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.

Would you rather pay for people's welfare or pay them enough to be relatively self sufficient, to not qualify for welfare, and be able to put more money into the consumer economy?

That's basically what the choice boils down to when people demand that these sorts of jobs pay low enough wages that we the tax payer have to pick up the tab for a businesses low wages and poor benefits, thus using us as an indirect subsidy for their profits.

If you don't think that these jobs deserve a good wage, that's fine. Just don't complain when the government takes your money, because ultimately, you're choosing the latter because of your belief in the former.


I'd also be willing to bet that the same people who believe these fast food workers should be paid peanuts are the same kind of people who go apesh*t when one of these "mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training" f*cks up their order.
 
2013-08-01 09:06:26 AM  

sigdiamond2000: I'd also be willing to bet that the same people who believe these fast food workers should be paid peanuts are the same kind of people who go apesh*t when one of these "mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training" f*cks up their order.


Or complaining that the folks at Home Depot don't have the knowledge of a tradesman.
 
2013-08-01 09:20:47 AM  
Hint: NOBODY is expected to be a primary wage earner on fast food wages.  That's why students and bored wives work at the local burger shop.  To bring in extra money for the household budget, help pay for school, or just provide some cash to supplement their allowance.

If you are a parent with children and your only means of support is fast food work, you might want to consider yourself a total failure in life.
 
2013-08-01 09:21:49 AM  
Many fast-food workers are parents raising children

Well, there's your problem.

Oh and FWIW, if you want to make $15+/hour at fast food, move to Midland/Odessa. Seriously.
 
2013-08-01 09:21:56 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.


It takes dedicated work to be as stupid as you are.  You must be a "progressive"....
 
2013-08-01 09:22:26 AM  
upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-08-01 09:27:46 AM  
I think their living wage calculator is a bit off.  For two adults and one child in my area they say $56,000.  MIT's calculator says $37,500.  That would still suck for flipping burgers but they don't have to over exaggerate.  Maybe it's because they are not specific to the county like the MIT calculator.
 
2013-08-01 09:32:34 AM  
I already know I wouldn't survive, having worked retail-slave hours and wages.  Also,

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?


Maybe these people never anticipated having to stay at these types of jobs.  I mean, I have an MA and cannot find entry level work in my field, so I'm forced to find work where I can and that has been in retail.  I'm STILL in retail, working retail wages.  Yes, I expect to be able to live off these wages.   *shrugs*
 
2013-08-01 09:34:19 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.


I am so going to gay-marry you. Difficulty: I'm not really into teh cock. But we'll find a way to make it work.
 
2013-08-01 09:37:21 AM  

LordZorch: Hint: NOBODY is expected to be a primary wage earner on fast food wages.  That's why students and bored wives work at the local burger shop.  To bring in extra money for the household budget, help pay for school, or just provide some cash to supplement their allowance.

If you are a parent with children and your only means of support is fast food work, you might want to consider yourself a total failure in life.


People take the work they can find. It's better than being unemployed and costing all of us even more welfare than we already have to because of your belief in low wages and shiatty benefits.

So really. Thanks for supporting policies that mean the government takes more of my money. For someone who claims to be conservative, you sure do seem to f*cking love wealth redistribution instead of self sufficiency.
 
2013-08-01 09:38:26 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.


I love you
 
2013-08-01 09:40:11 AM  
If mom wouldn't keep raising the rent on the basement lair, this wouldn't be a problem.
 
2013-08-01 09:40:21 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


As long as it makes you feel better that a 40-hour work week doesn't pay a living wage for certain jobs.
 
2013-08-01 09:40:47 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?



That's the new service economy, breh.
 
2013-08-01 09:42:09 AM  

Bloody William: As long as it makes you feel better that a 40-hour work week doesn't pay a living wage for certain jobs.


Look we all know that in today's economy, there are just jobs growing on trees and if you don't like your wage you can just get another job bleep bloop I am autistic
 
2013-08-01 09:43:23 AM  

LordZorch: Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.

It takes dedicated work to be as stupid as you are.  You must be a "progressive"....


Yes...HE'S the stupid one...
 
2013-08-01 09:43:40 AM  
The fark is "calculated math?" Perhaps subby meant "complicated math." Then again, perhaps subby isn't quite bright enough to work in fast food.
 
2013-08-01 09:44:31 AM  
I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.
 
2013-08-01 09:45:22 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.



Not sure if you are trolling or just naive and don't understand that there are adults out there who do work in fast food as a primary job.
 
2013-08-01 09:45:30 AM  
but they get education benifits...

newyorkstreetfood.com
 
2013-08-01 09:46:51 AM  

raerae1980: I mean, I have an MA and cannot find entry level work in my field


Received a Masters in Anthropology/Archaeology

What exactly did you expect to do besides work in academia?

Jackson Herring: Look we all know that in today's economy, there are just jobs growing on trees and if you don't like your wage you can just get another job


Come to Texas. I can find you work...I must warn you though, it's real work.
 
2013-08-01 09:47:34 AM  

Aarontology: Would you rather pay for people's welfare or pay them enough to be relatively self sufficient, to not qualify for welfare, and be able to put more money into the consumer economy?


Seems to me, either way, I'm paying.  Either through the government, or through higher prices.  So what's the real difference?
 
2013-08-01 09:47:44 AM  

Aristocles: I bet it's a lot easier to survive on fast food wages than it is on not having a job at all. If our noble job-creators are forced to keep upping the wages for unskilled labor, they won't be able to hire as many employees.


Ever notice how people who honestly hold this belief never seem to talk about how they went to their boss to ask for a reduction in pay and benefits across the board for themselves and the other employees in order to aid in job creation?
 
2013-08-01 09:50:10 AM  
My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?
 
2013-08-01 09:51:36 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


Working people should be able to afford to work.
 
2013-08-01 09:52:03 AM  

dittybopper: Seems to me, either way, I'm paying. Either through the government, or through higher prices. So what's the real difference?


I'd rather voluntarily pay a slightly higher price for a good or service than involuntarily have to pay a lot more for welfare, especially if it means those workers can have greater self sufficiency, can participate more in the consumer economy by purchasing more goods and services for themselves, thus helping businesses generate more profit, which is benefit of creating more demand, and thus more supply and jobs.

And when it comes to McD's, they said that if they doubled everyone's pay, it'd be an extra 68 cents for a burger. That's a shiat ton cheaper than taxes. And if that extra 68 cents is enough of a cost consideration for you, then you shouldn't be eating out in the first place, and you definitely should be wondering about your overall health costs later on after eating so much fast food that an extra 68 cents is causing you financial problems.
 
2013-08-01 09:52:27 AM  

Brick-House: If mom wouldn't keep raising the rent on the basement lair, this wouldn't be a problem.



This was almost a joke.... Almost..

Better stick to posting bad hope and change comics.
 
2013-08-01 09:53:03 AM  

ferretman: My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?


Do you have such low self esteem that you believe your accomplishments can be achieved by anyone or are you just  willfully obtuse to the fact that some people are not capable of jobs beyond unskilled labor?
 
2013-08-01 09:53:18 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: raerae1980: I mean, I have an MA and cannot find entry level work in my field

Received a Masters in Anthropology/Archaeology

What exactly did you expect to do besides work in academia?


Yes, or museums, environmental firms, hospitals, Coroner's offices/Medical Examiner....

Your point being...?
 
2013-08-01 09:54:06 AM  

ferretman: A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?


Whether or not it should be, it's the reality of today's service based economy. We've eliminated a lot of manufacturing and industry in America, so service jobs are a lot of what's left. or people have a hard time finding a job in their normal field, and have to take whatever jobs they can find. Sometimes that can mean for a long time.

Would you rather they simply not work because they "shouldn't" try to raise a family or have it become a full time job?

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?
 
2013-08-01 09:54:21 AM  

monoski: Not sure if you are trolling or just naive and don't understand that there are adults out there who do work in fast food as a primary job.


Oh, I understand that.  I also understand that the people who do that aren't going to end up doing much better if you pay them more, because they lack anything approaching the planning skills required to actually make a decent living.

My sister used to be one of those people.  She spent something like 20 *YEARS* working at various McDonalds.  And it was her own damned fault for doing so.  She didn't look past the next paycheck, so she got stuck in a job like that.  For decades.

Paying people more money, when the fact that they are stuck in such a job shows their complete and utter lack of planning for the future beyond the next week, isn't really going to help them.  You're better off taking that extra money and spending it on education.
 
2013-08-01 09:54:50 AM  

Headso: ferretman: My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Do you have such low self esteem that you believe your accomplishments can be achieved by anyone or are you just  willfully obtuse to the fact that some people are not capable of jobs beyond unskilled labor?


Step 1: The world needs ditch-diggers too.

Step 2: Ditch-diggers have bills to pay and families to feed.

Economics conservatives stop at step 1.
 
2013-08-01 09:54:58 AM  

dittybopper: NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.


10/10 Perfect blend of poutrage, hatefulness, unenlightened self-interest, and unselfconscious naïveté.
Bravo.

/Still waiting for Panthera tigris to administer biatch-slap de grâce.
 
2013-08-01 09:55:03 AM  
People trying to raise a family on a fast food job should be fired for trying to raise a family on a fast food job, that way they'll be less of a drain on society. Either that or their children should be shot into space.
 
2013-08-01 09:55:55 AM  

raerae1980: I already know I wouldn't survive, having worked retail-slave hours and wages.  Also, dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

Maybe these people never anticipated having to stay at these types of jobs.  I mean, I have an MA and cannot find entry level work in my field, so I'm forced to find work where I can and that has been in retail.  I'm STILL in retail, working retail wages.  Yes, I expect to be able to live off these wages.   *shrugs*


Why didn't you mention that your MA is in archeology/anthropology....I would think that is a limited field as it is. So your choice of what to pursue could be construed as 'poor'.

/archeology fan...
 
2013-08-01 09:56:21 AM  

dittybopper: My sister used to be one of those people.  She spent something like 20 *YEARS* working at various McDonalds.  And it was her own damned fault for doing so.  She didn't look past the next paycheck, so she got stuck in a job like that.  For decades.


Part of living paycheck to paycheck means not being able to plan much further than it. Building up savings is a lot harder these days.
 
2013-08-01 09:56:38 AM  

ferretman: My first 'job' was at McDonald's...I was 14 yrs old....I work there for two years and got a job at a supermarket. Worked there for 8 years...while working there I went to college full time and had at least 1 additional part time job (sometimes two...paid for college myself without any loans). Then I got a computer job at a Real estate company...worked there for 4 years, then I got a new computer job downtown NYC (until some assholes ruined it for me); then I became self-employed. Each job I had there was an increase in wages/salary.

A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?



I wonder if the cost of a College education has gone up or down since the time you went....
 
2013-08-01 09:56:40 AM  

raerae1980: Your point being...?


"hurf durf libs bad"
 
2013-08-01 09:56:47 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?


Well, find us a way to get back all those living wage jobs we used to have here in this country that are now being done by slaves in some third world hell hole and maybe people won't need to depend on burger flipping for their livelihood.
 
2013-08-01 09:57:42 AM  

dittybopper: Paying people more money, when the fact that they are stuck in such a job shows their complete and utter lack of planning for the future beyond the next week, isn't really going to help them.  You're better off taking that extra money and spending it on education.


Except that the education that people are selling generally isn't the education they need.The Education they need is the one that *successful* parents pass on to their *successful* children. It has classes in perspective, self-control, planning, and investment. These aren't easy to learn, which is why they're usually taught by autocrats (parents) to infants. Trying to teach these things to people older than 15, who will accept some kind of freedom and a shiatty life to being told what to do may just not work out the way you want it to.
 
2013-08-01 09:58:56 AM  

LordZorch: Mike_LowELL: Nobody has provided me a good reason why people should be paid a wage for their job.  Wages are holding back this economy.  If you force people to work for free, the job creators could have everyone in the country over the age of four employed.  But please, continue to insist that "children need an education".  So stupid.  Lol.

It takes dedicated work to be as stupid as you are.  You must be a "progressive"....


lynnrockets.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-01 10:00:33 AM  

Aarontology: ferretman: A fast-food job is not supposed to be a permanent job to raise a family on, why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

Whether or not it should be, it's the reality of today's service based economy. We've eliminated a lot of manufacturing and industry in America, so service jobs are a lot of what's left. or people have a hard time finding a job in their normal field, and have to take whatever jobs they can find. Sometimes that can mean for a long time.

Would you rather they simply not work because they "shouldn't" try to raise a family or have it become a full time job?

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?


It's funny, in the fast food thread yesterday I noticed a lot of people saying "if the job doesn't pay enough on to survive then don't take it".  I'd never really hear that as an argument before.  I always thought the standard talking point was to get a second job if you aren't making enough?  Did new GOP talking points get released recently?
 
2013-08-01 10:02:00 AM  

dittybopper: Since when has a job flipping burgers ever been something anybody expected to make a living off of?

I'm 46 years old, and back when *I* was a kid, the people you saw working at McDonalds were either high school or college students, or older folks looking to supplement their retirement incomes.

If you were between those two age ranges, you were either a manager or the mentally disabled guy they hired to mop the floors.

NOT EVERY JOB CAN OR SHOULD PAY A "LIVING WAGE".  If you can be replaced by a mid-70's IQ pimply-faced teenager who only has a couple days of training, then what you do for work isn't worth a "living wage".  If it was, they wouldn't hire dumb-ass kids and retirees to do it.



And the incentive to leave welfare for work should be what then, a wage that is insufficient to live on or to feed your family?
 
2013-08-01 10:02:18 AM  

Jackson Herring: Bloody William: As long as it makes you feel better that a 40-hour work week doesn't pay a living wage for certain jobs.

Look we all know that in today's economy, there are just jobs growing on trees and if you don't like your wage you can just get another job bleep bloop I am autistic


Your phrasing totally gives away another website you're a member of.  I think, anyways.
 
2013-08-01 10:02:43 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com image 776x421]


Maybe they should find a roomate.. like most people have when they're in college or of college age and need to live while not having time for a real career.
 
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