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(CNN)   Who needs monogamy? I dunno, ugly guys with hot wives?   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, monogamy, ecology and evolutionary biology, Zoology, shrimps, psychological testing, ranges, National Academy of Sciences, parental care  
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3909 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:16 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 09:20:42 AM  
Ok, let's just get this out of the way:  Humans are not a monogamous species.  It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness.
 
2013-08-01 09:21:12 AM  
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2013-08-01 09:22:08 AM  
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2013-08-01 09:23:45 AM  

PsyLord: Ok, let's just get this out of the way:  Humans are not a monogamous species.  It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness.


no no no ... WOMEN are monogamous ... and polysexual ....
 
2013-08-01 09:25:34 AM  
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2013-08-01 09:27:55 AM  
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2013-08-01 09:28:33 AM  
Because Liz Landau wants to fark everything that walks?
 
2013-08-01 09:30:31 AM  
content.hollywire.com
 
2013-08-01 09:35:05 AM  
www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com
 
2013-08-01 09:36:43 AM  
" It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness."

Oh please, it's what keeps society together. If not for marriage, you'd have revenge killings and unsupported children all over the place. Yes, even worse than it is already.
And let's be honest, it's best some of you stay off the market anyway.
 
2013-08-01 09:38:02 AM  
www.mentalfloss.com
 
2013-08-01 09:39:38 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-01 09:50:27 AM  

PsyLord: Ok, let's just get this out of the way:  Humans are not a monogamous species.  It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness.


it's only a recent thing, used to be that there were constant male shortages because of slavery/war, monogamy came into existence when populations stabilized... i mean if you had no form of birth control then monogamy was the only solution

i guess with birth control monogamy is pointless, the only disadvantage would be that generations of children without stable parental relationships will probably lead to a collapse of society but there's maybe a way to do that without monogamy
 
2013-08-01 09:57:26 AM  
I don't know I kind of like the idea of what a person who always has your back during the rough times, but then again I trust and care about my wife and lots of you hate your wives
 
2013-08-01 10:02:36 AM  

Kurmudgeon: " It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness."

Oh please, it's what keeps society together. If not for marriage, you'd have revenge killings and unsupported children all over the place. Yes, even worse than it is already.
And let's be honest, it's best some of you stay off the market anyway.


This here is the unspoken truth.  There is a reason people feel jealousy and fact is that most people just are not ready to live WITHOUT monogamy.
 
2013-08-01 10:08:17 AM  
It doesn't make much sense for a species where it takes only 9 months to carry a child to term (the last few of those with the mother becoming gradually less capable of taking care of herself and her offspring) but 14 or so years to reach sexual maturity and 20 or so years to reach full physical maturity for the males to develop a hit-it-and-forget-it mentality.

Sure, it makes sense for rodents who have liters of 20 children who are mature in a matter of months but if you want to ensure propagation of your species, it makes sense for men to hang around and raise their kids.

So, yeah, monogamy might not be completely "natural" but jealousy absolutely is.  Either way, our society functions best when fathers stick around to take care of their kids.
 
2013-08-01 10:08:36 AM  
FTA: Given that other great apes are polygynous and that human males and females differ so markedly in their average body size and longevity, Clutton-Brock says "the ancestral condition for humans is probably polygyny."

Um, duh?

We demonstrated polygyny throughout our early societal development. The idea of monogamy as enforced through social and moral structure is a recent social invention.
 
2013-08-01 10:10:53 AM  

meanmutton: So, yeah, monogamy might not be completely "natural" but jealousy absolutely is.  Either way, our society functions best when fathers stick around to take care of their kids.


You do realize that polygyny doesn't mean "men take off", right? Mormons demonstrate polygyny as a workable social structure in which one male has two or more female partners, and yet they still cover the whole "fathers stick around to take care of their kids" bit, too.
 
2013-08-01 10:11:50 AM  
Maybe you should've married the person who shares your values on things like this instead of entering into a long term commitment based on temporary physical attractiveness and hormones.
 
2013-08-01 10:14:44 AM  

FormlessOne: Mormons demonstrate polygyny as a workable social structure in which one male has two or more female partners, and yet they still cover the whole "fathers stick around to take care of their kids" bit, too.


no...  they really don't.  what the mormon offshoot clans that practice that shiat show is that men will do almost anything to control the pussy supply.  it is not a workable social structure when young men are run off and exiled to keep the male population low so a few men can control the female population.
 
2013-08-01 10:15:18 AM  

frepnog: Kurmudgeon: " It's a social construct that has (for many) outlived its usefulness."

Oh please, it's what keeps society together. If not for marriage, you'd have revenge killings and unsupported children all over the place. Yes, even worse than it is already.
And let's be honest, it's best some of you stay off the market anyway.

This here is the unspoken truth.  There is a reason people feel jealousy and fact is that most people just are not ready to live WITHOUT monogamy.


Additionally, monogamy greatly benefits poor young men, who also happen to be the greatest cause of civil unrest and violence in society.  You can hate it because of your issues with Xtianity or Mom and Dad or your own lack of self-control, but it really keeps society together.
 
2013-08-01 10:17:04 AM  

FormlessOne: meanmutton: So, yeah, monogamy might not be completely "natural" but jealousy absolutely is.  Either way, our society functions best when fathers stick around to take care of their kids.

You do realize that polygyny doesn't mean "men take off", right? Mormons demonstrate polygyny as a workable social structure in which one male has two or more female partners, and yet they still cover the whole "fathers stick around to take care of their kids" bit, too.


This is exactly how it works in the Middle East.  The excluded men, mostly young and poor, don't seem to mind at all and are really agreeable chaps.
 
2013-08-01 10:20:22 AM  

FLMountainMan: Additionally, monogamy greatly benefits poor young men, who also happen to be the greatest cause of civil unrest and violence in society.


this.  young men that are not getting laid cause farking problems.
 
2013-08-01 10:26:00 AM  

meanmutton: It doesn't make much sense for a species where it takes only 9 months to carry a child to term (the last few of those with the mother becoming gradually less capable of taking care of herself and her offspring) but 14 or so years to reach sexual maturity and 20 or so years to reach full physical maturity for the males to develop a hit-it-and-forget-it mentality.

Sure, it makes sense for rodents who have liters of 20 children who are mature in a matter of months but if you want to ensure propagation of your species, it makes sense for men to hang around and raise their kids.

So, yeah, monogamy might not be completely "natural" but jealousy absolutely is.  Either way, our society functions best when fathers stick around to take care of their kids.


This is stupid. Monogamy doesn't mean that men stick around to raise their kids. Poly- doesn't mean that men don't stick around to raise their kids. Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent. Society will continue to work just fine either way.
 
2013-08-01 10:28:36 AM  

ModernPrimitive01: I don't know I kind of like the idea of what a person who always has your back during the rough times, but then again I trust and care about my wife and lots of you hate your wives


The monogamy thing works for me as well. Sure, other women are still attractive... But I'm not screwing around on my best friend.

/married 26 years
 
2013-08-01 10:28:48 AM  

FormlessOne: meanmutton: So, yeah, monogamy might not be completely "natural" but jealousy absolutely is.  Either way, our society functions best when fathers stick around to take care of their kids.

You do realize that polygyny doesn't mean "men take off", right? Mormons demonstrate polygyny as a workable social structure in which one male has two or more female partners, and yet they still cover the whole "fathers stick around to take care of their kids" bit, too.


It's only a workable structure if you have vastly more women than men.  Even then, you have incredible amounts of repression of women in those societies.
 
2013-08-01 10:35:48 AM  
1.- If you hold the argument that "monogamy is not natural, we should stop it", then please stop using your computer and move to Somalia. Computers, Internet, Language, Democracy, etc are not natural things. Flee to a no man's land like Somalia where you can experience nature at its best.

2.- Polygamy made sense in ancient times where men died at a much higher rate than women, so the ratio was unbalanced and well...those women want cock too.

3.- Monogamy was a by-product of two phenomena:

a.- Omega males wanted to have the chance to keep their own woman instead of losing it to the Alpha and Beta males. Since Alpha and Beta males were defined by physical prowess, they couldn't compete, so they created social constructs based on qualities other than physical traits: Intelligence and cunning. Here comes religion and politics, which are the basis of monogamy. They made both the legal and religious rules to ensure that.

b.- As the male-female ratio progressively stabilized, monogamy gained a preferential status to the point that today is the most effective organization system. If we allowed polygamy nowadays, many males would be without the chance to find a partner, which would create social unrest. Plus if you think people cheat now that it's only 1-1, expect cheating to multiply if it's 1-3, 1-5 or more.
 
2013-08-01 10:36:03 AM  

dj_spanmaster: Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent.


you have no idea how real grown ups work, do you?

my wife is absolutely my best friend.  i am faithful to her because it would be incredibly hurtful and stupid to betray my best friend (and because I love her, of course).  If you trust your partner (and that trust is based on a relationship that isn't a bunch of bullcrap and lies) there is no need to be jealous.
 
2013-08-01 10:37:54 AM  

dj_spanmaster: This is stupid. Monogamy doesn't mean that men stick around to raise their kids. Poly- doesn't mean that men don't stick around to raise their kids. Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent. Society will continue to work just fine either way.


No, it's not. You can try to spin it any way you want it in order to justify your mental sexcapades, but reality doesn't work that way.

You're right that monogamy doesn't imply the permanence of the male though, but I don't know why that came into the topic in the first place.
 
2013-08-01 10:38:14 AM  
www.fatwallet.com
/obligatory
 
2013-08-01 10:47:17 AM  
I love how this debate is always framed in terms of what males want and get. As though female choice is somehow irrelevant to the equation.

Even in birds, females have been observed "stepping out" on their partners for decades. There is a very strong drive for females of every species to have as many partners as they can while picking one to bond with for raising their offspring. This isn't exactly news. Genetic analysis of women who live in high opportunity environments like ports has shown that their children are frequently fathered by someone other than their partner. Female primates get bored and researchers often have to rotate out the males they present for mating or the females will simply lose interest.

The female of the alpha wolf pair bond will sneak behind a rock to mate with a younger beta male. And rodents, rats in particular, will forgo mating to support a "king and queen" even though the "queen" doesn't limit herself to the "king" but often sneaks off with a rival.

The idea that males are controlling this dynamic has been long debunked. But it would seem that it's very important to some researchers to reinforce the narrative that males are calling the shots. It's rather narcissistic and frankly bad science.
 
2013-08-01 10:49:09 AM  
The mrs. sheep and I are in an 'open' relationship.  We're married, and love each other very much and are going to grow old together.  We don't play unless approved by the other, we tell anything that happened, no secrets.  Sex is fun times and we've made some good friends for non-sex times along the way.  And no cheating occurs.  Just be safe and have fun.
 
2013-08-01 10:55:56 AM  

ModernPrimitive01: I don't know I kind of like the idea of what a person who always has your back during the rough times, but then again I trust and care about my wife and lots of you hate your wives


not just that. many are cryptoghey woman-haters unable to work up the courage to actually smoke poles.

/ feel sad for those who can't love a woman.
 
2013-08-01 11:12:20 AM  

frepnog: dj_spanmaster: Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent.

you have no idea how real grown ups work, do you?

my wife is absolutely my best friend.  i am faithful to her because it would be incredibly hurtful and stupid to betray my best friend (and because I love her, of course).  If you trust your partner (and that trust is based on a relationship that isn't a bunch of bullcrap and lies) there is no need to be jealous.


The fact that you think having sex with someone else would be "betrayal" speaks volumes.
 
2013-08-01 11:21:13 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: frepnog: dj_spanmaster: Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent.

you have no idea how real grown ups work, do you?

my wife is absolutely my best friend.  i am faithful to her because it would be incredibly hurtful and stupid to betray my best friend (and because I love her, of course).  If you trust your partner (and that trust is based on a relationship that isn't a bunch of bullcrap and lies) there is no need to be jealous.

The fact that you think having sex with someone else would be "betrayal" speaks volumes.


if you have promised to be faithful, then how is it not?  sex is about more than happy fun genital times.  it is also an act that can bond two people very tightly and changes a friendship to something more.  I would rather my wife not have sex with other men because that emotional and physical bond we have would be seriously jeopardized if it was reduced to something just done "for funsies".  Sex is serious business, man.  pretending otherwise is just damned foolish.
 
2013-08-01 11:23:31 AM  

frepnog: dj_spanmaster: Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent.

you have no idea how real grown ups work, do you?

my wife is absolutely my best friend.  i am faithful to her because it would be incredibly hurtful and stupid to betray my best friend (and because I love her, of course).  If you trust your partner (and that trust is based on a relationship that isn't a bunch of bullcrap and lies) there is no need to be jealous.


Yeah, but how many people really value their own fidelity to their partners?  It seems like everyone should, but when you have the temerity to be disappointed at someone's lack of faithfulness, you get derided for being naive.

dionysusaur: ModernPrimitive01: I don't know I kind of like the idea of what a person who always has your back during the rough times, but then again I trust and care about my wife and lots of you hate your wives

not just that. many are cryptoghey woman-haters unable to work up the courage to actually smoke poles.

/ feel sad for those who can't love a woman.


It's irritating that "Oh, they can't do x?  They must be gay" is an acceptable response in any argument.  There's jumping to conclusions and then there's picking the most retarded conclusion among all your options and championing that as the pinnacle of your deductive reasoning.

After a series of bad relationships, it's entirely possible to lose trust in humanity as a whole.  After seeing many people repeatedly pick the more selfish of the options available to them in varying situations, any reasonably intelligent person can become accustomed to expecting the worst of their fellow humans.

But you're right, they must be gay.

ginandbacon: I love how this debate is always framed in terms of what males want and get. As though female choice is somehow irrelevant to the equation.
...
The idea that males are controlling this dynamic has been long debunked. But it would seem that it's very important to some researchers to reinforce the narrative that males are calling the shots. It's rather narcissistic and frankly bad science.


And everything apparently has to be a gender war these days, apparently.  Most of these studies rely on one assumption, monogamy is more beneficial to a female with a gestation period than a male.  Considering the alternatives, it's the most easily understandable (the most "default") conclusion.  Instead of designing an experiment with multiple variables, they institute or assume controls as much as they can so they can study the reactions of just one side of the relationship.  That's not bad science, that's the scientific method.

Until they draw a final conclusion from all their studies and say their results cannot be questioned, it must be understood that any article like this that discusses their work is merely a status report and not a final summary.  It's narcissistic to make a judgement on the validity of their efforts merely by reading a one page article on a study that has likely been extremely simplified for mass consumption.
 
2013-08-01 11:24:31 AM  
www.tailgate365.com
 
2013-08-01 11:42:11 AM  

Sandwyrm: t's narcissistic to make a judgement on the validity of their efforts merely by reading a one page article on a study that has likely been extremely simplified for mass consumption.


If you think I am basing my judgement on this article, you are an idiot.
 
2013-08-01 11:53:27 AM  

ginandbacon: Sandwyrm: t's narcissistic to make a judgement on the validity of their efforts merely by reading a one page article on a study that has likely been extremely simplified for mass consumption.

If you think I am basing my judgement on this article, you are an idiot.


I'm saying you're basing your judgement on this article and many others like it.  I say this because no one with even a shred of genuine understanding of research in behavioral sciences would make an unwarranted, petulant and meaningless post like you did.

Or are you one of these new-fangled "trolls", who find stupid inflammatory opinions to be the height of intellectual prowess?
 
2013-08-01 11:55:32 AM  
Guys who don't want their dicks cut off in their sleep?
 
2013-08-01 11:57:16 AM  
Reproduction is way overrated.
 
2013-08-01 11:58:54 AM  

Sandwyrm: ginandbacon:


Damnit, I apologize.  Didn't mean to react so negatively.  My sentiment stands, but I'm being hypocritical with unwarranted hysteria myself.
 
2013-08-01 12:07:55 PM  
For many of us the choice is between monogamy and never getting laid, so monogamy doesn't look quite so bad.

/ Yes, I know, you've got lots of hot, polyamorous girlfriends up in Canada
 
2013-08-01 12:20:52 PM  
I only have enough patience for one of you at a time, so you're just going to have to wait until I'm done with my current.

/going on ten years
//not slowing down anytime soon

//better pull up a chair
 
2013-08-01 12:22:01 PM  

Sandwyrm: ginandbacon: Sandwyrm: t's narcissistic to make a judgement on the validity of their efforts merely by reading a one page article on a study that has likely been extremely simplified for mass consumption.

If you think I am basing my judgement on this article, you are an idiot.

I'm saying you're basing your judgement on this article and many others like it.  I say this because no one with even a shred of genuine understanding of research in behavioral sciences would make an unwarranted, petulant and meaningless post like you did.

Or are you one of these new-fangled "trolls", who find stupid inflammatory opinions to be the height of intellectual prowess?


Birds.

Apes.

Guppies.

Wolves.

Our closest relatives.

Us.

Let me know if you need this hysterical female to assist you with any of the big words.
 
2013-08-01 12:23:53 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Maybe you should've married the person who shares your values on things like this instead of entering into a long term commitment based on temporary physical attractiveness and hormones.


This. And don't forget to discuss (with verbal words) how you feel about kids BEFORE you take off your pants around one another.
 
2013-08-01 12:25:39 PM  

ginandbacon: I love how this debate is always framed in terms of what males want and get. As though female choice is somehow irrelevant to the equation.

Even in birds, females have been observed "stepping out" on their partners for decades. There is a very strong drive for females of every species to have as many partners as they can while picking one to bond with for raising their offspring. This isn't exactly news. Genetic analysis of women who live in high opportunity environments like ports has shown that their children are frequently fathered by someone other than their partner. Female primates get bored and researchers often have to rotate out the males they present for mating or the females will simply lose interest.

The female of the alpha wolf pair bond will sneak behind a rock to mate with a younger beta male. And rodents, rats in particular, will forgo mating to support a "king and queen" even though the "queen" doesn't limit herself to the "king" but often sneaks off with a rival.

The idea that males are controlling this dynamic has been long debunked. But it would seem that it's very important to some researchers to reinforce the narrative that males are calling the shots. It's rather narcissistic and frankly bad science.


So it's less narcissistic and better sciency if females control it? LOL

Your hypothesis is faulty since different species behave in different ways. And in human societies males have had almost absolute power for most of our existence.

Females do have the power over sex though, since they can decide when to have sex (and likely with whom) while men need to wait until a female agrees to their proposals. The whole dynamic of surrendering and conquering is what fuels relationships between the sexes. With females denying sex even when they want it and even when they agree they still try to keep it. Then on top of that there's rape.
 
2013-08-01 12:26:12 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Monogamy is simply for the jealous or codependent.


No, it's more like it's for people who are able to have a conversation with their partners after the act of coitus has finished.
 
2013-08-01 12:27:37 PM  

ginandbacon: Sandwyrm: t's narcissistic to make a judgement on the validity of their efforts merely by reading a one page article on a study that has likely been extremely simplified for mass consumption.

If you think I am basing my judgement on this article, you are an idiot.


Awww, she's so hardcore and feisty. Lookither, calling other people idiots just because.
 
2013-08-01 12:28:22 PM  

Sandwyrm: it's entirely possible to lose trust in humanity as a whole.


So what are they still doing in the dating pool at that point? Try leaving prospective partners for those who won't automatically distrust them.
 
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