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(Washington Post)   This just in: The more you personally rely on the US government to take care of everything in your life, the more likely you are to be a raging libertarian   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 339
    More: Obvious, GOP, Kentucky Republican, Justin Amash, pork barrel spending, expediencies, libertarians, Rand Paul  
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7942 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:10 AM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 09:32:18 AM

Khellendros: Revek: I have strong libertarian leanings but receive nothing from the government.

That's impressive.  You don't drive cars on roads, bridges, or overpasses?  You don't eat food grow in the U.S., or shipped in from outside the country?  You don't ever travel across publicly maintained land?  Bought a car that is subject to safety regulations?  Use a public utility such as power, water, telephone, or internet?  You defend your own land with your own army?  You don't watch television regulated by the FCC or look at a clock that has time set by NIST created standards?  You don't use federally issued currency, or send or receive anything by the postal service?  You've never called the police for anything?  Needed to have friends or family helped by the fire department?

Truly, you receive nothing from the government.  I salute you, citizen.  You're a beacon to all of us.


No, actually, he is a self-deluded asshole who would survive about ten seconds without an organized society and government to provide for and protect him - like every other stupid, self-deluded "libertarian".
Objectivism is autism expressed as an existential philosophy.
Libertarianism is autism expressed as a political philosophy.
 
2013-08-01 09:32:30 AM
Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!
 
2013-08-01 09:33:11 AM

bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!


What the fark was this?
 
2013-08-01 09:33:26 AM

cameroncrazy1984: What the fark was this?


Baby's First Thought
 
2013-08-01 09:34:03 AM

bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!


This guy cuts through the clutter like a laser.  Just try and resist getting into a debate with this guy!  I bet the libs won't even have the stomach for such a challenge.
 
2013-08-01 09:35:36 AM

bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-01 09:36:58 AM

bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!


I'll bet you thought that was clever when you were typing it. Unfortunately, it just comes off as simple minded.
 
2013-08-01 09:37:06 AM

HotWingConspiracy: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Pocket Ninja: I like to speak in sweeping generalizations and imply that willful ignorance of ways by which I might benefit my family makes me a stronger person.

Your sense of entitlement is admirable.

Your sense of pride needs work.

Let us know when you find a landlord that you can pay with your pride.


The trick is to not let it get to that point.
 
2013-08-01 09:37:08 AM

GoldSpider: Pocket Ninja: I like to speak in sweeping generalizations and imply that willful ignorance of ways by which I might benefit my family makes me a stronger person.

Indeed, there is no more noble a goal in life than to find a teat at which to suckle.


As a raging liberal, i have bankrupted myself (racked up huge CC debt with multi-year payoffs)three times by not collecting unemployment.

I know my inaction makes no sense.
I know it is a sensible safety net.
I can't explain my aversion.
I don't believe it makes me morally superior.
I don't recommend it as a philosophy.

Do i defy your expectations? Do you understand why so many libertarians sound like children to me? I'm waving it in your face now, because you are a known jerk, but i don't think it represents anything but my foolish pride.
 
2013-08-01 09:37:40 AM

astinkywind: Subby doesn't know what a Libertarian is. *facepalm* did he even read the artical.


Protip: political rhetoric does not equal actual reality.
 
2013-08-01 09:37:56 AM
The libertarian answer to every argument: "That's fine in practice, but in theory it just won't work."
 
2013-08-01 09:38:13 AM

Fjornir: All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?


Well we are one step closer to Gladiator games

www.bodybuilding.com
 
2013-08-01 09:38:14 AM

bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!


While I too have scare a clue what you're blathering about, I will agree that self-described Liberals have more in common with libertarians than they are comfortable admitting.
 
2013-08-01 09:40:52 AM
Decent article,

but this headline is just full of brick stupid. Whatever Rove-like troll that invented this false equivalency is 'rotfltao' as they say.

Because wanting actual regulation and smart government policies can in no way shape or form be any different than wanting the government to control every aspect of my life. Right?

Fark this nation is farking stupid.

Remember that the actual baseline 100 IQ is relative to the population as a whole at a given point of time. What is 100 today could have been say... 80 or 120 at a different point of time. If we could have a barometer of the sway of that baseline, we could track it's movement.

Politics is as good of a barometer as any,
and I think a storm is blowing in, because that motherfarker has been dropping hard and fast.

/another barometer might be the use of things like 'rotflmao' :P
 
2013-08-01 09:41:00 AM

brukmann: Do i defy your expectations?


Not really, but you're exactly like everyone else here who thinks they know my personal philosophy on spending priorities and safety net programs, etc.
 
2013-08-01 09:41:45 AM
Ok, Google has answered my questions - NY Times Article from 2012 "Even Critics of Safety Net Increasingly Depend on It", and Paul Krugman article "Moochers Hate Welfare" (I know, not the most unbiased source).
 
2013-08-01 09:41:48 AM

Khellendros: Revek: I have strong libertarian leanings but receive nothing from the government.

That's impressive.  You don't drive cars on roads, bridges, or overpasses?  You don't eat food grow in the U.S., or shipped in from outside the country?  You don't ever travel across publicly maintained land?  Bought a car that is subject to safety regulations?  Use a public utility such as power, water, telephone, or internet?  You defend your own land with your own army?  You don't watch television regulated by the FCC or look at a clock that has time set by NIST created standards?  You don't use federally issued currency, or send or receive anything by the postal service?  You've never called the police for anything?  Needed to have friends or family helped by the fire department?

Truly, you receive nothing from the government.  I salute you, citizen.  You're a beacon to all of us.


TRANSLATION:  We have already socialized society and are winning the war.  Surrender, Libertarians!

sayanythingblog.com
 
2013-08-01 09:42:37 AM
Why did that headline contradict the article and reality?
 
2013-08-01 09:44:22 AM

GoldSpider: I will agree that self-described Liberals have more in common with libertarians than they are comfortable admitting.


To make this sentence true, you'd have to pin down some common core beliefs of libertarians.

It has been my experience that I agree with some and disagree with some because there is no consistent core of beliefs from one libertarian to the next.
 
2013-08-01 09:44:35 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: HotWingConspiracy: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Pocket Ninja: I like to speak in sweeping generalizations and imply that willful ignorance of ways by which I might benefit my family makes me a stronger person.

Your sense of entitlement is admirable.

Your sense of pride needs work.

Let us know when you find a landlord that you can pay with your pride.

The trick is to not let it get to that point.


Right, poor people should just get more money.

I don't know why nobody has ever thought of that.
 
2013-08-01 09:44:49 AM

brukmann: Do you understand why so many libertarians sound like children to me?


Because it's easier to compartmentalize people who disagree with you than it is to acknowledge that there is room for overlap between what you consider necessarily competing, mutually-exclusive ideologies?

If you care to engage me with more than name-calling, I'd be happy to explain my own beliefs in greater detail.
 
2013-08-01 09:45:43 AM
WTF are you talking about submittitard?

TFA was talking about the rise of libertarianism inside the GOP.  Right now the party is heading for a split.  The social conservatard theocrats that have run the party for nearly 20 years and want to make the GOP MORE socially conservative vs. the social liberals/fiscal conservatives that want to bring the GOP into the 21st century.

No matter what happens, it will be amusing to watch the GOP implode.  I'll get the popcorn.
 
2013-08-01 09:45:52 AM
I always thought that Libertarians were just Republicans who wanted to keep hating brown poor people but still be able to smoke weed.
 
2013-08-01 09:46:23 AM

rvesco: TRANSLATION: We have already socialized society and are winning the war. Surrender, Libertarians!


No, I was making the point that anyone who lives here and makes the claim that they "receive nothing from the governement"  is lying to themselves.
 
2013-08-01 09:46:24 AM
I am a socialist - I believe the necessities of life should be provided for free to the general public (though comfort is not a requirement, just health; stack the shelter beds like Japanese tube hotels and give out energy bars made out of cardboard for all I care).

I'm also in the top 20% of earners nationally, have never received social safety net aid, and refuse to rely on others for anything I can do for myself.

/I challenge anyone to find a person more bootstrappy than I am.
 
2013-08-01 09:46:43 AM

Revek: I have strong libertarian leanings but receive nothing from the government.  I get no money for my autistic son.  No money for my disabling medical condition  including no medical help at all.  I make half the median income for the state.  The removal of responsibility for ones own life has been the biggest detriment to this countrys prosperity.  We now live in a world where every time something unpleasant happens  people feel it a right to blame others rather than accepting it and dealing with it themselves.  They expect someone else to pay for it.  Thats not a true libertarian trait, it is however the primary method of conservatives and liberals.


I know how you feel. All we get us roads, electricity, water, clean air, safe places to work, the police to protect us, firefighters, the military to stop invasions, civic infrastructure, a monetary system, a reasonably fair legal system to handle disputes guaranteed healthcare and several thousand other things, but I don't take all the money available for an autistic child either.
 
2013-08-01 09:46:51 AM

unlikely: It has been my experience that I agree with some and disagree with some because there is no consistent core of beliefs from one libertarian to the next.


Largely because hypocrites like Sen. Paul hijack the brand.
 
2013-08-01 09:48:02 AM

GoldSpider: brukmann: Do i defy your expectations?

Not really, but you're exactly like everyone else here who thinks they know my personal philosophy on spending priorities and safety net programs, etc.


The retreat of the intellectual coward. If you disagree, you just, like, don't understand me, dude! My first lesson from Fark was I cannot expect anyone to have an idea what i'm talking about if i'm not expressing myself clearly. Practice that discipline and self-reliance and dazzle us with your brilliant personal philosophy long-form. Right now. Go for it. Nobody is stopping you.
 
2013-08-01 09:48:06 AM

someonelse: bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!

I'll bet you thought that was clever when you were typing it. Unfortunately, it just comes off as simple minded.


I'm an idiot for oversimplifying things in a FARK THREAD?
That is pretty much my point. Seems like Liberals have a deeper, more special hate for libertarians even though there is probably a lot more common ground. I think that speaks to the closemindedness of the average liberal.
Let's decriminalize homosexuality and end the war on drugs, then we can go back to the retard flame war?
 
2013-08-01 09:48:06 AM

tentaculistic: Ok, Google has answered my questions - NY Times Article from 2012 "Even Critics of Safety Net Increasingly Depend on It", and Paul Krugman article "Moochers Hate Welfare" (I know, not the most unbiased source).


If your question was "What the hell is the connection between the FARK headline and the actual article?", I'm not sure your Google search answered it.
 
2013-08-01 09:49:28 AM

GoldSpider: bopis: Liberal thinking:
Liberals agree with me 100% of the time and that makes them more highly evolved.
Conservatives disagree with me on pretty much 100% of issues, that makes them evil!
Libertarians agree/disagree with me on maybe 50% of issues, that makes them the worst!

While I too have scare a clue what you're blathering about, I will agree that self-described Liberals have more in common with libertarians than they are comfortable admitting.


Oh yeah, sure, believing in a socially responsible government is so libertarian.

//I also agree with the subset of republicans that think that grand theft auto should still be illegal.
///<b>everyone</b> has common ground.
 
2013-08-01 09:49:58 AM

Neighborhood Watch: If everyone on welfare was a Libertarian, then the Democrat party would cease to exist.


If everyone on welfare understood they are actually on welfare, the GOP would lose 3/4 of its voting base.
 
2013-08-01 09:49:58 AM

brukmann: The retreat of the intellectual coward. If you disagree, you just, like, don't understand me, dude!


I don't recall you ever asking me what I believed, so that means everything you "know" about me is a product of your own assumptions and biases.
 
2013-08-01 09:52:14 AM

GoldSpider: brukmann: The retreat of the intellectual coward. If you disagree, you just, like, don't understand me, dude!

I don't recall you ever asking me what I believed, so that means everything you "know" about me is a product of your own assumptions and biases.


From 500 threads. I probably know you better than your mom. You know people can read this shiat anonymously, right?
 
2013-08-01 09:54:23 AM

star_topology: And what does that get you...?


Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter don't you call him, 'cause he can't go. He owes his soul to Goldline.
 
2013-08-01 09:54:56 AM

Revek: I have strong libertarian leanings and get many benefits from the govt but receive nothingno no direct checks from the government.


FTFY
 
2013-08-01 09:55:15 AM

brukmann: From 500 threads. I probably know you better than your mom. You know people can read this shiat anonymously, right?


Then it wouldn't surprise you in the least if I were to say that I'm an advocate of single-payer, am I right?
 
2013-08-01 09:55:49 AM

GoldSpider: brukmann: From 500 threads. I probably know you better than your mom. You know people can read this shiat anonymously, right?

Then it wouldn't surprise you in the least if I were to say that I'm an advocate of single-payer, am I right?


I didn't say you were an idiot.
 
2013-08-01 09:56:03 AM
TOX KEEP FRUIT OF OWN LABOR. TOX NO WANT G MAN TELL TOX HOW TO MAKE SHARP SPEAR ROCKS.
 
2013-08-01 09:56:16 AM

Khellendros: Revek: I have strong libertarian leanings but receive nothing from the government.

That's impressive.  You don't drive cars on roads, bridges, or overpasses?  You don't eat food grow in the U.S., or shipped in from outside the country?  You don't ever travel across publicly maintained land?  Bought a car that is subject to safety regulations?  Use a public utility such as power, water, telephone, or internet?  You defend your own land with your own army?  You don't watch television regulated by the FCC or look at a clock that has time set by NIST created standards?  You don't use federally issued currency, or send or receive anything by the postal service?  You've never called the police for anything?  Needed to have friends or family helped by the fire department?

Truly, you receive nothing from the government.  I salute you, citizen.  You're a beacon to all of us.


That seems to be the main problem I find in their reasoning.  It's all about "I do not receive any money from the government for.............", totally oblivious to the benefits they indirectly recieve through infrastructure and services.  It's not about finding a teat to suckle on so we don't have to fend for ourselves, it's about common sense.  The government of the U.S. isn't some despotic entity, it is a system set up by our founding fathers and supposed to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people"; if it is screwed up we did it to ourselves.

One function of the government in my opinion is to be sort of the national "warehouse bulk shopping club" of the American people.  There are certain essential services that are needed which cannot be provided on an induvidual basis comercially in a cost effective manner.  The intent behind these services are not to create a dependence on the government or enslave the masses, but provide a necessary service at a "bulk discount" rate.  Rather than enslaving the citizen, it is freeing them to pursue greater things than just the basics in life.  Services like education, healhcare, etc.

Seems to me the freedom right leaning Libertarians wasnt to offer is freedom to be dumb, go hungry, get sick & die, and go broke working like a slave in a futile effort trying to not to be dumb, hungry, and get sick & die.
 
2013-08-01 09:57:25 AM

bulldg4life: And yet, here you are, typing on the internet. The ultimate irony.


In his defense, he uses HTTP (Histrionic Text Transport Pigeon).
 
2013-08-01 09:57:53 AM

brukmann: I didn't say you were an idiot.


Fair enough; I can live with "jerk".  :)
 
2013-08-01 09:58:12 AM
I have always wondered why all the Libertarian threads on Fark  go so long and get so many reactions.
 
2013-08-01 09:58:17 AM
F*ck libertarians. While it is refreshing to see more people come out against war, prohibition, and government-enforced discrimination against gays, their anti-tax, anti-social program, anti-regulation, "I got mine" BS just shows how disconnected they are from the realities of the majority of the people in this country, the working poor. We aren't "fat and happy, sucking on the government teat" like so many seem to think. That "teat" puts out some pretty thin milk, let me tell you. In the richest country in the world, working 2 jobs, my children wouldn't be able to see a doctor without government assistance for their health insurance. My wife's pregnancy costs, especially when she had complications, would have put us in debt for 20+ years without government assistance for her health care. When I lost my job when the economy crashed, and my wife and I received cash aide and food stamps, were we eating steak and laying about watching satellite tv? No, we were scrambling to find jobs because the cash aide and food stamps barely enabled us to survive, and that was on top of paying no rent because we moved in with her folks. And we live in the generous socialist paradise of California. Who knows how it would have been in some teatard hell-hole state in the Midwest or South.

I come from an upper middle-class family. I was a conservative Republican in high school. Although social issues had already changed my politics by the time the I had the experiences recounted above, experiencing the reality of poverty first hand, trying to live, to survive, "on the dole" solidified me as a Socialist. The 1% in this country, who have so much wealth they couldn't hope to ever spend it all... f*ck them. They have no right to wealth so obscene when children down the street go hungry or can't see a doctor, when parents have to work multiple jobs and still rely on government assistance to scrape by. By tax or by sword, there will be some equalization of wealth in this country, and the sooner the better.
 
2013-08-01 10:00:19 AM

SovietCanuckistan: I have always wondered why all the Libertarian threads on Fark  go so long and get so many reactions.


Because for Years now Libertarians have tried to "educate" everyone on what Libertarians really are, since we keep insisting on judging them by the actions and words of the people who call themselves Libertarians.
 
2013-08-01 10:00:32 AM
I'm not 100% LP.org "Libertarian" because I do recognize that there are some government safety nets, consumer protections, and public goods/infrastructure that are valuable, but on average I do agree with their general philosophy that a smaller, more efficient government is better than what we have.  True tax & spend liberals have always pissed me off, but as I've grown up into the semi-responsible adult that I am I've been driven away from the Republicans by the extreme hypocrisy of social conservatives who want government out of our wallets but in our bedrooms.

What pisses me off even more than a tax & spender or a social conservative, though, is the tea party types suddenly claiming a "libertarian" viewpoint when 90% of the tea party would shoot a queer or colored boy on sight.  You folks can't cherry-pick small government platitudes without accepting that your wanting to live free from interference means that mixed race gay couple in town also gets to live free from interference.  If Obama wasn't elected you would still be worshiping at the altar of Karl Rove and not yelling about a rapidly expanding debt, even though W added the second-highest amount to it.
 
2013-08-01 10:00:42 AM

GoldSpider: brukmann: I didn't say you were an idiot.

Fair enough; I can live with "jerk".  :)


You earn a star. What should the tag be, though?
 
2013-08-01 10:01:44 AM
Were the headline even remotely true, the Democrats wouldn't stand a chance.
 
2013-08-01 10:01:58 AM
probably because if you were to truly live off the grid you'd be too busy to waste your time complaining on the internet?
 
2013-08-01 10:02:34 AM

HAMMERTOE: Were the headline even remotely true, the Democrats wouldn't stand a chance.


You're late, someone already made that stupid joke.
 
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