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(Salon)   Environmentalists rejoice as Germany shuts down scary nuclear power plants, replacing them with all-natural, organic, coal-burning furnaces   (salon.com) divider line 167
    More: Stupid, coal plant, forms of energy, electricity generation, greenhouse gas emissions, meltdown  
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3883 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2013 at 12:08 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-31 11:13:38 AM
There is no uncertainty with coal plants.  You never have to worry about the containment being breached and poisoning the surrounding area.

Mainly, that's because there is no containment and you know it's spewing poisonous chemicals, but here is no uncertainty about it!
 
2013-07-31 11:14:32 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

Say what?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-31 11:32:06 AM

hinten: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x346]

Say what?


What do you think your picture shows that contradicts the article, or the headline?
 
2013-07-31 11:36:37 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

vpb:
hinten: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x346]

Say what?

What do you think your picture shows that contradicts the article, or the headline?



Unfortunately, we'll have to ignore that the last three years are missing in the graph. Having said that, the headline more accurately would read:

Environmentalists rejoice as Germany shuts down scary nuclear power plants, replacing them with all-natural, organic, renewable energy sources
 
2013-07-31 11:39:14 AM
How about they build hippie-fueled power stations?

BURN THE HIPPIES!
 
2013-07-31 11:56:24 AM
Germany was allowed to have nuclear power, all things considered?
 
2013-07-31 11:59:33 AM
Well they ran out of workers and couldn't fully staff the schools, this lead to a decrease in the educational level of the city.

And as we all know you can't have your nuke planet staffed by unskilled workers! That is going to lead to a melt down!! And who has room for all those wind turbines?!?
 
2013-07-31 12:08:47 PM
I'm in favor of nuclear plants, but I really would like to see someone come up with a method of using coal for fuel but not spewing god-awful toxins into the air.
 
2013-07-31 12:12:38 PM
What a German power grid might look like:

www.boardgamebeast.com


http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid
 
2013-07-31 12:13:40 PM
I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.
 
2013-07-31 12:15:46 PM

hinten: Environmentalists rejoice as Germany shuts down scary nuclear power plants, replacing them with all-natural, organic, renewable energy sources


Except for the fact that that is NOT happening.
 
2013-07-31 12:15:51 PM
SHOCKING NEWS
 
2013-07-31 12:16:21 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

NIMBY has gone through the looking glass.
 
2013-07-31 12:16:26 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Electricity_Product ion_in_Japan.svg
 
2013-07-31 12:17:14 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


Quiet you!  Logic and reason have no place in a discussion like this!
 
2013-07-31 12:17:43 PM
In the absence of a strong government plan to push natural gas and other renewable forms of energy, the share of electricity generated from coal rose from 43 percent in 2010 to 52 percent in the first half of this year...

I did not know natural gas was a renewable energy.
 
2013-07-31 12:18:07 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


Many of us aren't.    I've decided on the term "practical environmentalist" to describe the notion that many kinds of pollution represent externalized costs greater than the cost differences to a cleaner alternative.  There's certainly a subset of environmentalists whose attitudes are fundamentally informed by the assertion: "Natural good, unnatural bad."  The fact that these people can safely be ignored doesn't mean that environmentalism as a whole can.
 
2013-07-31 12:18:35 PM
Well, they're going to have to come up with some kind of solution to this problem, that's for sure.
 
2013-07-31 12:20:06 PM

ultraholland: Well, they're going to have to come up with some kind of solution to this problem, that's for sure.


A solution that, perhaps, won't necessitate successive solutions?
 
2013-07-31 12:21:04 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In the absence of a strong government plan to push natural gas and other renewable forms of energy, the share of electricity generated from coal rose from 43 percent in 2010 to 52 percent in the first half of this year...

I did not know natural gas was a renewable energy.


All fossil fuels are renewable. You just may have to wait a couple of billion years.
 
2013-07-31 12:21:16 PM

ikanreed: The fact that these people can safely be ignored doesn't mean that environmentalism as a whole can.


Just with any practical ideology, the crazies need to be marginalized.
 
2013-07-31 12:21:56 PM

GoldSpider: ultraholland: Well, they're going to have to come up with some kind of solution to this problem, that's for sure.

A solution that, perhaps, won't necessitate successive solutions?


A solution that involves burning an organic renewable resource?
 
2013-07-31 12:23:25 PM
Who else bought a bunch of furnaces for Germany in the past?
 
2013-07-31 12:24:12 PM
hinten, you're an idiot.
 
2013-07-31 12:25:22 PM
Subby, been to northern Japan lately?

Didn't think so.
 
2013-07-31 12:25:31 PM
Good for Germany, nuclear isn't clean energy unless it's fusion.
 
2013-07-31 12:26:10 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In the absence of a strong government plan to push natural gas and other renewable forms of energy, the share of electricity generated from coal rose from 43 percent in 2010 to 52 percent in the first half of this year...

I did not know natural gas was a renewable energy.


You have never eaten taco bell after 2am... have you?
 
2013-07-31 12:27:41 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


I think it has something to do with hippies' insistence that everything be "natural." Organic foods, etc. Nuclear power is about as far from natural as you can get. Plus, there's the whole issue of nuclear waste.

/Yeah, I know, not all environmentalists are hippies
 
2013-07-31 12:28:03 PM

Deep Contact: Good for Germany, nuclear isn't clean energy unless it's fusion.


Indeed.  Burning long-dead ferns and dinosaurs is cleaner and far more sustainable in the long term.

/Deliberately feeding the troll.
 
2013-07-31 12:28:55 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


You really cannot fathom why environmentalists are against nuclear power?

Have you seen the movie The China Syndrome?
 
2013-07-31 12:29:11 PM
Has anyone sampled to coal ash for uranium lately? Might be a viable ore for the stuff.
 
2013-07-31 12:29:12 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


Seriously? Have people already forgotten that in Tokyo (and other parts of Japan) today there are new businesses that specialize in checking peoples' grocery purchases for radiation and Cesium contamination?

I'm pro-nuclear energy too, theoretically. But in practice we have a pretty shiatty track record of massive catastrophic failures.
 
2013-07-31 12:29:26 PM

Fireproof: I think it has something to do with hippies' insistence that everything be "natural." Organic foods, etc. Nuclear power is about as far from natural as you can get. Plus, there's the whole issue of nuclear waste.


And as the natural/organic food industry has taught us, hippies are easy marks.
 
2013-07-31 12:29:44 PM
Pernicious nonsense. Something like 1/4 of Germany's energy is from solar and wind, and they're pushing for 35% by 2020.

Someone is just throwing a tantrum over nuclear power plants closing, pretending the only alternative is coal.
 
2013-07-31 12:29:57 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In the absence of a strong government plan to push natural gas and other renewable forms of energy, the share of electricity generated from coal rose from 43 percent in 2010 to 52 percent in the first half of this year...

I did not know natural gas was a renewable energy.


My butt is a never-ending supply of the stuff.
 
2013-07-31 12:30:33 PM

hinten: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x346]

Say what?


So you show a graph that ends right when they announced they were shutting down the nuke plants....very helpful...
 
2013-07-31 12:30:46 PM

Lando Lincoln: You really cannot fathom why environmentalists are against nuclear power?


As an alternative to burning fossil fuels and spewing pollution unchecked into the atmosphere, there is no rational argument against it.
 
2013-07-31 12:30:56 PM

vpb: There is no uncertainty with coal plants. You never have to worry about the containment being breached and poisoning the surrounding area.


i.imgur.com
You were saying?
 
2013-07-31 12:31:42 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Someone is just throwing a tantrum over nuclear power plants closing, pretending the only alternative is coal.


They aren't pretending that coal plants are being re-opened.
 
2013-07-31 12:35:11 PM

Thudfark: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In the absence of a strong government plan to push natural gas and other renewable forms of energy, the share of electricity generated from coal rose from 43 percent in 2010 to 52 percent in the first half of this year...

I did not know natural gas was a renewable energy.

All fossil fuels are renewable. You just may have to wait a couple of billion years.


I'm a short term thinker. It's always been one of my problems.
 
2013-07-31 12:36:17 PM

gopher321: How about they build hippie-fueled power stations?

BURN THE HIPPIES!


The grease and sludge by-products is hard to get rid safely and Birkenstocks and dirty dreadlocks don't break down very well in the reactor core
 
2013-07-31 12:36:38 PM

GoldSpider: Lando Lincoln: You really cannot fathom why environmentalists are against nuclear power?

As an alternative to burning fossil fuels and spewing pollution unchecked into the atmosphere, there is no rational argument against it.


Yeah, there is. The half-life of nuclear waste.
 
2013-07-31 12:37:52 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Pernicious nonsense. Something like 1/4 of Germany's energy is from solar and wind, and they're pushing for 35% by 2020.

Someone is just throwing a tantrum over nuclear power plants closing, pretending the only alternative is coal.


And that would be great if the whole country was windy or sunny, but its not.  And the farking greens are whining about cutting trees down for power transmittal within Germany.   

There isn't enough green power available or realistically on the horizon for the entirety of the country to supplant the nuclear power they used to generate.  Meaning it will be replaced by dirtier and more unhealthy coal or they will just import nuclear energy from France like typical NIMBY farktards.

I swear to God I wanted to key every car with an "Atomkraft: Nein Danke" smiling sun bumper sticker after Fukushima.
 
2013-07-31 12:38:32 PM

Lando Lincoln: I'm in favor of nuclear plants, but I really would like to see someone come up with a method of using coal for fuel but not spewing god-awful toxins into the air.


It's so cost prohibitive that it doesn't make sense. You're better off using renewables instead of a finite resource.

/thorium nuclear plants and soon.
 
2013-07-31 12:39:36 PM
You mean environmentalists lie?

But farkers swear every environmental fit is worthy of global panic.
 
2013-07-31 12:40:08 PM

lostcat: But in practice we have a pretty shiatty track record of massive catastrophic failures.


In practice, rich western countries have a pretty amazing track record of running safely and mitigating meltdowns with minimal effect except for Fukushima.
 
2013-07-31 12:40:14 PM

miniflea: I never understood why environmentalists were anti nuclear. Is it a cold war fear thing? I have seen it claimed that such sentiment actually makes nuclear power more dangerous because preventing new plants keeps older, less safe designs running longer than they were expected to.


It's an emotional reaction to the possibility of 'disaster' rather than a properly rational one.  The first thing most anti-nuke people will bring up is the massive environmental damage that could be done in the case of catastrophic failure, Chernobyl being the usual example.  And yes, many of them are ignorant of the engineering faults in older designs that have led to a few accidents and a handful of near-misses.

There is also the waste thing.   Yes reactor waste is very, very nasty stuff.  There is however, very little of it compared to fossil fuel waste product.  However, it is exotic and people get all scared and NIBMY when any disposal site is proposed (see Yucca Mountain).

Something like coal on the other hand, is familiar, and less prone to catastrophic failure of the sort that will make international news.  It's killing us slowly, but the same ignorance that causes people to get all antsy over anything with a radioactive sticker on the side is also the ignorance of the amount of Uranium  and other really nasty things that get pumped into the air and into the fly ash.

Remember though, you can find "environmentalists" who are opposed to everything.  Some are also opposed to wind (poor birds), and solar (poor desert tortoises). Heck, there were protests over an experimental wave turbine system at San Onofre (right down the beach from the nuclear plant) because it might disturb some fish.  It's always a cast of "don't use technology x, use something else" often without specifying what "something else" is.
 
2013-07-31 12:40:24 PM
I kind of missed the acid rain.
 
2013-07-31 12:40:41 PM

GoldSpider: J. Frank Parnell: Someone is just throwing a tantrum over nuclear power plants closing, pretending the only alternative is coal.

They aren't pretending that coal plants are being re-opened.


They are pretending the choices are either nuclear or coal, and conspicuously not mentioning that Germany remains a world leader in alternative energy.

And there are no hard figures provided about coal plants opening, just nuclear plants closing. The slight increase in percentage of power produced by coal could just be older coal plants being used more, and they're misrepresenting that.
 
2013-07-31 12:40:45 PM
Coal. See? Greens and hippies don't love EVERYTHING organic. Conservatives have been doing them a gross injustice.

Not to mention the air pollution.
 
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