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(Talking Points Memo)   John McCain is starting to hispanic   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 52
    More: Obvious, John McCain, GOP, PBS NewsHour  
•       •       •

1694 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jul 2013 at 9:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



52 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-31 07:37:58 AM  
Some one has so hisplainin' to do.
 
2013-07-31 08:41:37 AM  
Nice one, subby.
 
2013-07-31 08:45:04 AM  
Did he just meet a girl named Maria?
 
2013-07-31 08:48:40 AM  

grokca: Did he just meet a girl named Maria?


what are we to do about Maria?
 
2013-07-31 09:07:43 AM  

somedude210: grokca: Did he just meet a girl named Maria?

what are we to do about Maria?


Dude...she's Australian.
 
2013-07-31 09:11:15 AM  

Diogenes: Dude...she's Australian.


Dude, no need to bring Hitler into this....
 
2013-07-31 09:32:35 AM  
Turning Hispanic
I think I'm turning Hispanic
I really think so.
 
2013-07-31 10:03:12 AM  
It would seem that McCain is trying to start a war with the GOP establishment to "wrest control" of the agenda.  Knowing McCain, the following are possibilities:

- he's just being an attention whore again
- this is a calculated move to try and salvage the party
- he wentoff his meds for a few days

The second one is the least likely of the three, and also the most foolish.  The GOP is not going to cut from the religious right, because the religious right is a good ol fashioned trap designed by the real people in power, the plutocrats.

Anti-immigration: great for business. Keep the illegals working for you until they start demanding higher wages, then deport them (control with fear)
Anti-abortion: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-gay: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Pro-gun: your guns will be taken away unless you go to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-tax: bread and butter of the plutocrats (hey you never know, one day YOU might win the lotto - control with wild dreams)

Contrary to popular belief, the GOP is not "controlled" by the religious right. It's controlled by the plutocrats. The religious right doesn't have any power in the party, they are simply being led around by the guys with money and means who trade the issues they don't care about for the ones they do. Fear increases with age, as the result of pain and general experience and a changing world. Religion is the safety net people fall back on to alleviate their fears (often religion's echo chamber just magnifies them instead).

Sadly this is also why my parents and I are politically estranged. But yeah Jesus saves and all that bunk.
 
2013-07-31 10:04:08 AM  
You would think republicans would be a good match for some hispanic people because of the whole socially conservative angle... They really screwed up with that one, they played too much to their bigoted base like they were going to go anywhere.
 
2013-07-31 10:04:50 AM  
The problem is that they've focused so much on disenfranchising poor voters and black voters that they lost sight of preventing Hispanics from voting. They really need to knuckle down and get some sort of English language requirement law passed to try and make up that lost ground.
 
2013-07-31 10:04:57 AM  
Lati-nooooo he di'nt.
 
2013-07-31 10:06:14 AM  
It must be terrifying to be a Republican these days.
Maybe sexed and contraceptives could turn the trend.....
 
2013-07-31 10:10:04 AM  
John McCain married Cindy Hensley, the daughter of a Mob-connected felon tied to murder.

John McCain will do anything to stay elected. It's no coincidence he is making these overtures to Hispanic voters. He's about to run for election, including telling Hispanics he'll fight for them if they re-elect him.
 
2013-07-31 10:11:55 AM  
Perhaps you should have thought of that when you thrust the idiot fascist scum wing of the party into the spotlight with your VP pick you failed old coot. Die.
 
2013-07-31 10:12:04 AM  

Headso: You would think republicans would be a good match for some hispanic people because of the whole socially conservative angle... They really screwed up with that one, they played too much to their bigoted base like they were going to go anywhere.


Honestly I don't think the common wisdom on Hispanic voters being socially conservative is true. They like church and all, but they're not big on the nuttier end of legislating it all.
 
2013-07-31 10:12:26 AM  

Raging Thespian: The problem is that they've focused so much on disenfranchising poor voters and black voters that they lost sight of preventing Hispanics from voting. They really need to knuckle down and get some sort of English language requirement law passed to try and make up that lost ground.


They just assumed that every Hispanic named "Jesus" would blindly vote Republican.
 
2013-07-31 10:14:05 AM  

bdub77: It would seem that McCain is trying to start a war with the GOP establishment to "wrest control" of the agenda.  Knowing McCain, the following are possibilities:

- he's just being an attention whore again
- this is a calculated move to try and salvage the party
- he wentoff his meds for a few days

The second one is the least likely of the three, and also the most foolish.  The GOP is not going to cut from the religious right, because the religious right is a good ol fashioned trap designed by the real people in power, the plutocrats.

Anti-immigration: great for business. Keep the illegals working for you until they start demanding higher wages, then deport them (control with fear)
Anti-abortion: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-gay: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Pro-gun: your guns will be taken away unless you go to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-tax: bread and butter of the plutocrats (hey you never know, one day YOU might win the lotto - control with wild dreams)

Contrary to popular belief, the GOP is not "controlled" by the religious right. It's controlled by the plutocrats. The religious right doesn't have any power in the party, they are simply being led around by the guys with money and means who trade the issues they don't care about for the ones they do. Fear increases with age, as the result of pain and general experience and a changing world. Religion is the safety net people fall back on to alleviate their fears (often religion's echo chamber just magnifies them instead).

Sadly this is also why my parents and I are politically estranged. But yeah Jesus saves and all that bunk.


There's many other Republican policies that are great for business.  Holding on to this one issue risks losing repeatedly to a party that holds fewer pro-plutocrat beliefs, to use your phrasing.  Changing the stance on this one issue means the plutocrats only get about 95% of what they want from the Republicans, which is less than ~98%, but better than ~80% from the Democrats.

/yes I just made up numbers to make my argument
//78% of people do
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-07-31 10:20:30 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: John McCain married Cindy Hensley, the daughter of a Mob-connected felon tied to murder.

John McCain will do anything to stay elected. It's no coincidence he is making these overtures to Hispanic voters. He's about to run for election, including telling Hispanics he'll fight for them if they re-elect him.


He'll be up for re-election in 2016. If that counts as "about to run for election," sure, he is. But then basically every elected member of the federal government is about to run for election, so it's a truism.
 
2013-07-31 10:22:54 AM  
I like how he isn't even trying to hide the fact that he's only doing this for the votes.
 
2013-07-31 10:23:00 AM  
Some stuff to consider also:

The Republicans in control are not dumb, in fact some are frankly brilliant. Consider:

1) They have a very strong mouthpiece that doesn't differ much. FoxNews, National Review, Hannity, Limbaugh, blogs like redstate/breitbart/pajamapants. Of course as Farkers we get fed this trolly bullsh*t on purpose because it generates ad revenues. Major party disagreements are mostly filtered from their base of voters.

2) They use data analytics. They use focus groups to test phrases and ideologies. They also know how to ask loaded questions in polls. They know how to tell half-truths.

3) They understand wedge issues better than anyone. They try to figure out how to shift public support and move the goalposts. Look at the whole 20 week abortion thing. Hell look how the conservative agenda has moved in the past twenty years.

4) They payoff politicians and introduce bills behind the scenes under cover of darkness (especially at the state and local level which nowadays gets less attention). It works because few people truly pay attention anymore, most people are too busy talking about the latest train wreck on Bravo or what running back they want to draft on NFL fantasy night a month from now.

5) They force politicians to sign 'contracts' that guarantee they'll never do stuff like raise taxes.

6) If you don't go by their book, they'll have you primaried. See: Club for Growth.

This is a very greedy and manipulative group of people. It's a small group, and while some of them may know each other, it's not a conspiracy of people in a room laughing it up sipping single malt and smoking cigars. Some of them invented this stuff. Some of the smaller guys just recently found the playbook used by others and are using it to advance their own agenda. Some genuinely believe that capitalism is good, even if they are misguided about the negative outcomes of pure capitalism.
 
2013-07-31 10:27:26 AM  
Welcome to the RINO club Johnny Mac
 
2013-07-31 10:29:36 AM  

Headso: You would think republicans would be a good match for some hispanic people because of the whole socially conservative angle... They really screwed up with that one, they played too much to their bigoted base like they were going to go anywhere.


George W. Bush almost managed to do this in 2005.  Think about that for a minute:  George W. Bush was more politically savvy then the current bunch of idiots.
 
2013-07-31 10:29:59 AM  

ariseatex: There's many other Republican policies that are great for business.  Holding on to this one issue risks losing repeatedly to a party that holds fewer pro-plutocrat beliefs, to use your phrasing.  Changing the stance on this one issue means the plutocrats only get about 95% of what they want from the Republicans, which is less than ~98%, but better than ~80% from the Democrats.


Agreed. (And yes I agree, Democrats have their agenda controlled too and have become increasingly pro-corporate, but in a mostly good moderate GOP way.)

Immigration is a split issue with the GOP because of this very thing. Boehner has publicly considered splitting with the party to pass the immigration bill, but the minute he hints he might go that way he suddenly changes his mind 2 hours later. My guess is he's using it to rake in cash from someone, maybe the Meat lobby? He's also under considerable pressure from others in his caucus.
 
2013-07-31 10:30:43 AM  

bdub77: Some stuff to consider also:

The Republicans in control are not dumb, in fact some are frankly brilliant. Consider:

1) They have a very strong mouthpiece that doesn't differ much. FoxNews, National Review, Hannity, Limbaugh, blogs like redstate/breitbart/pajamapants. Of course as Farkers we get fed this trolly bullsh*t on purpose because it generates ad revenues. Major party disagreements are mostly filtered from their base of voters.

2) They use data analytics. They use focus groups to test phrases and ideologies. They also know how to ask loaded questions in polls. They know how to tell half-truths.

3) They understand wedge issues better than anyone. They try to figure out how to shift public support and move the goalposts. Look at the whole 20 week abortion thing. Hell look how the conservative agenda has moved in the past twenty years.

4) They payoff politicians and introduce bills behind the scenes under cover of darkness (especially at the state and local level which nowadays gets less attention). It works because few people truly pay attention anymore, most people are too busy talking about the latest train wreck on Bravo or what running back they want to draft on NFL fantasy night a month from now.

5) They force politicians to sign 'contracts' that guarantee they'll never do stuff like raise taxes.

6) If you don't go by their book, they'll have you primaried. See: Club for Growth.

This is a very greedy and manipulative group of people. It's a small group, and while some of them may know each other, it's not a conspiracy of people in a room laughing it up sipping single malt and smoking cigars. Some of them invented this stuff. Some of the smaller guys just recently found the playbook used by others and are using it to advance their own agenda. Some genuinely believe that capitalism is good, even if they are misguided about the negative outcomes of pure capitalism.


I've been thinking a lot about your post and it does seem that people often draft Marshawn Lynch a lot later than they should, I mean he's got to be considered a proven entity at this stage and for some reason he never goes top 5.
 
2013-07-31 10:35:51 AM  
Panama's proud native son.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-31 10:37:49 AM  

Tigger: bdub77: Some stuff to consider also:

The Republicans in control are not dumb, in fact some are frankly brilliant. Consider:

1) They have a very strong mouthpiece that doesn't differ much. FoxNews, National Review, Hannity, Limbaugh, blogs like redstate/breitbart/pajamapants. Of course as Farkers we get fed this trolly bullsh*t on purpose because it generates ad revenues. Major party disagreements are mostly filtered from their base of voters.

2) They use data analytics. They use focus groups to test phrases and ideologies. They also know how to ask loaded questions in polls. They know how to tell half-truths.

3) They understand wedge issues better than anyone. They try to figure out how to shift public support and move the goalposts. Look at the whole 20 week abortion thing. Hell look how the conservative agenda has moved in the past twenty years.

4) They payoff politicians and introduce bills behind the scenes under cover of darkness (especially at the state and local level which nowadays gets less attention). It works because few people truly pay attention anymore, most people are too busy talking about the latest train wreck on Bravo or what running back they want to draft on NFL fantasy night a month from now.

5) They force politicians to sign 'contracts' that guarantee they'll never do stuff like raise taxes.

6) If you don't go by their book, they'll have you primaried. See: Club for Growth.

This is a very greedy and manipulative group of people. It's a small group, and while some of them may know each other, it's not a conspiracy of people in a room laughing it up sipping single malt and smoking cigars. Some of them invented this stuff. Some of the smaller guys just recently found the playbook used by others and are using it to advance their own agenda. Some genuinely believe that capitalism is good, even if they are misguided about the negative outcomes of pure capitalism.

I've been thinking a lot about your post and it does seem that people often dr ...


LOL!!
 
2013-07-31 10:39:41 AM  

bdub77: ariseatex: There's many other Republican policies that are great for business.  Holding on to this one issue risks losing repeatedly to a party that holds fewer pro-plutocrat beliefs, to use your phrasing.  Changing the stance on this one issue means the plutocrats only get about 95% of what they want from the Republicans, which is less than ~98%, but better than ~80% from the Democrats.

Agreed. (And yes I agree, Democrats have their agenda controlled too and have become increasingly pro-corporate, but in a mostly good moderate GOP way.)

Immigration is a split issue with the GOP because of this very thing. Boehner has publicly considered splitting with the party to pass the immigration bill, but the minute he hints he might go that way he suddenly changes his mind 2 hours later. My guess is he's using it to rake in cash from someone, maybe the Meat lobby? He's also under considerable pressure from others in his caucus.


The Tea Partiers in the House have hinted at an open rebellion against Boehner if he were to bring an immigration bill to the floor with less than a majority of the caucus voting for it. That's a big factor as well. Why would he want to give up his cushy Speaker job?
 
2013-07-31 10:43:43 AM  
Looks like old John is gonna need to be Primaried, RINO geezer that he is.
 
2013-07-31 11:10:58 AM  

Headso: You would think republicans would be a good match for some hispanic people because of the whole socially conservative angle... They really screwed up with that one, they played too much to their bigoted base like they were going to go anywhere.


There was a lot of talk about this in the 2012 Presidential election, especially from Marco Rubio and other states with significant latino populations.  There is a strong relationship between Republicans and latinos with conservative religion and traditional family values.  I  really think this is going to mellow out over the next ten to twenty years when the bigoted older generation begins dieing out, and the new face of the Republican party will be decidedly latino.
 
2013-07-31 11:17:44 AM  

Print'sNotDead: Looks like old John is gonna need to be Primaried, RINO geezer that he is.


The only way McCain leaves Congress is is when he decides to retire. The Arizona GOP is owned by Cindy's family's friends and connections, most of whom support McCain over some of the other more colorful members of the Arizona GOP.

Also, McCain has survived multiple attempts to have him removed or "primaried" (he even survived a recall effort in 2001). I understand that there's yet another recall attempt going on in Arizona.. which is cute and all, but ultimately futile because U.S. Senators can not be called.

McCain has given his word that he will step down if a recall election goes the way of "Yes".. but that's not happening anytime soon.
 
2013-07-31 11:36:22 AM  
talkingpointsmemo.com

t1.gstatic.com
The Morg has gotten to McCain
 
2013-07-31 12:13:49 PM  
GOP cannot win national election with candidates like McCain, i.e. old geezers who become the nominee because it's their turn.

monoski: Welcome to the RINO club Johnny Mac


I think he started the RINO club
 
2013-07-31 12:22:25 PM  
McCain is simply jumping on this Grenade because he's from Arizona which has a large hispanic population. If pressed for a solution he'll say: It's something that needs to be done, I didn't mean *I* was gonna do it.
 
2013-07-31 12:46:26 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: John McCain married Cindy Hensley, the daughter of a Mob-connected felon tied to murder.

John McCain will do anything to stay elected. It's no coincidence he is making these overtures to Hispanic voters. He's about to run for election, including telling Hispanics he'll fight for them if they re-elect him.


McCain's is up for election in 2016.
 
2013-07-31 12:47:15 PM  

bdub77: It would seem that McCain is trying to start a war with the GOP establishment to "wrest control" of the agenda.  Knowing McCain, the following are possibilities:

- he's just being an attention whore again
- this is a calculated move to try and salvage the party
- he wentoff his meds for a few days

The second one is the least likely of the three, and also the most foolish.  The GOP is not going to cut from the religious right, because the religious right is a good ol fashioned trap designed by the real people in power, the plutocrats.

Anti-immigration: great for business. Keep the illegals working for you until they start demanding higher wages, then deport them  (control with fear)
Anti-abortion: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-gay: wedge issue, tap that card to get the brainwashed masses to come to the polls (control with fear)
Pro-gun: your guns will be taken away unless you go to the polls (control with fear)
Anti-tax: bread and butter of the plutocrats (hey you never know, one day YOU might win the lotto - control with wild dreams)

Contrary to popular belief, the GOP is not "controlled" by the religious right. It's controlled by the plutocrats. The religious right doesn't have any power in the party, they are simply being led around by the guys with money and means who trade the issues they don't care about for the ones they do. Fear increases with age, as the result of pain and general experience and a changing world. Religion is the safety net people fall back on to alleviate their fears (often religion's echo chamber just magnifies them instead).

Sadly this is also why my parents and I are politically estranged. But yeah Jesus saves and all that bunk.


Hmmm, there seems to be a theme there. I guess they'll continue because it frequently works.
 
2013-07-31 12:55:23 PM  
Hispanics don't vote Democrat because of immigration. They vote Democrat because, by and large, they aren't wealthy.
 
2013-07-31 12:55:36 PM  

Lor M. Ipsum: There was a lot of talk about this in the 2012 Presidential election, especially from Marco Rubio and other states with significant latino populations. There is a strong relationship between Republicans and latinos with conservative religion and traditional family values. I really think this is going to mellow out over the next ten to twenty years when the bigoted older generation begins dieing out, and the new face of the Republican party will be decidedly latino.


That's also assuming that younger Latinos will still care about homosexuality and abortion in twenty years, which bucks the trends of younger people in every other group.
 
2013-07-31 12:57:54 PM  
Also, the Vatican is ratcheting up it's social justice stances, which is decidedly not Republican.
 
2013-07-31 01:15:39 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Hispanics don't vote Democrat because of immigration. They vote Democrat because, by and large, they aren't wealthy.


Yeah, but one of the main reasons they don't vote for Republicans because of immigration.  This actually was part of McCain's point; he said that without passing comprehensive immigration reform, Republicans don't even have a chance at winning hispanic voters (but that passing such isn't a guarantee).

Most border state Republicans that have been elected state-wide (IE, Senators and Governors, as opposed to House Reps) are actually pro-immigration reform because they pretty much need to be to get elected.
 
2013-07-31 02:23:02 PM  

Geotpf: thismomentinblackhistory: Hispanics don't vote Democrat because of immigration. They vote Democrat because, by and large, they aren't wealthy.

Yeah, but one of the main reasons they don't vote for Republicans because of immigration.  This actually was part of McCain's point; he said that without passing comprehensive immigration reform, Republicans don't even have a chance at winning hispanic voters (but that passing such isn't a guarantee).

Most border state Republicans that have been elected state-wide (IE, Senators and Governors, as opposed to House Reps) are actually pro-immigration reform because they pretty much need to be to get elected.


But they certainly aren't going to be the ones to initiate such reform, they're just really, really for it... because they may pick up some extra votes if they say that.
 
2013-07-31 02:56:47 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Hispanics don't vote Democrat because of immigration. They vote Democrat because, by and large, they aren't wealthy.


and they don't vote GOP because the Republicans continually demonize them as the source of all evil, you would think that all unemployment is caused by Hispanics stealing jobs and they are all pot dealing criminals if you listen to those xenophobes.
 
2013-07-31 03:47:11 PM  
As much as I think a lot of McCain's respect among moderates is unearned I'll give him credit for talking about an obvious, practical truth the rest of the GOP doesn't want to deal with, let alone acknowledge.
 
2013-07-31 05:31:36 PM  

Lor M. Ipsum: Headso: You would think republicans would be a good match for some hispanic people because of the whole socially conservative angle... They really screwed up with that one, they played too much to their bigoted base like they were going to go anywhere.

There was a lot of talk about this in the 2012 Presidential election, especially from Marco Rubio and other states with significant latino populations.   There is a strong relationship between Republicans and latinos with conservative religion and traditional family values.  I  really think this is going to mellow out over the next ten to twenty years when the bigoted older generation begins dieing out, and the new face of the Republican party will be decidedly latino.


No, there really isn't. Hispanics tend to support letting same-sex couples marry at a higher rate than the rest of the population. Hispanics tend to support legal abortion at about equal rates as the rest of the population. Hispanics hugely support comprehensive sex education and affordable access to contraception. Hispanics support gun control measures at rates higher than the rest of the population. I don't see people who support marriage equality, legal abortion, comprehensive sex ed, free contraception, and gun control voting for the GOP anytime soon.
 
2013-07-31 06:11:26 PM  
He's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...

It's like watching Opera Winfrey gain and lose weight back in the '90s. Damn crazy yoyo. Don't watch it too long, or you'll be under his controooolll!!!
 
2013-08-01 03:07:07 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: He's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...

It's like watching Opera Winfrey gain and lose weight back in the '90s. Damn crazy yoyo. Don't watch it too long, or you'll be under his controooolll!!!


It's almost a little impressive, most people (non-celebrities) can't recover from from being called crazy a bunch of times and having good reason to be believed. Or at least they aren't taken seriously again professionally. But here he is.
 
2013-08-01 03:46:59 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Fuggin Bizzy: He's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...

It's like watching Opera Winfrey gain and lose weight back in the '90s. Damn crazy yoyo. Don't watch it too long, or you'll be under his controooolll!!!

It's almost a little impressive, most people (non-celebrities) can't recover from from being called crazy a bunch of times and having good reason to be believed. Or at least they aren't taken seriously again professionally. But here he is.


I heard a little while ago that Sen. McCain and Sen. Graham will be heading to Egypt to talk with the military about allowing new elections, at President Obama's request.

I can't even tell who the crazy one is here.  I for one wouldn't ask McCain or Graham to represent me for anything.
 
2013-08-01 04:44:26 AM  

Alphax: Uchiha_Cycliste: Fuggin Bizzy: He's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...he's crazy...he's sane...

It's like watching Opera Winfrey gain and lose weight back in the '90s. Damn crazy yoyo. Don't watch it too long, or you'll be under his controooolll!!!

It's almost a little impressive, most people (non-celebrities) can't recover from from being called crazy a bunch of times and having good reason to be believed. Or at least they aren't taken seriously again professionally. But here he is.

I heard a little while ago that Sen. McCain and Sen. Graham will be heading to Egypt to talk with the military about allowing new elections, at President Obama's request.

I can't even tell who the crazy one is here.  I for one wouldn't ask McCain or Graham to represent me for anything.


Could it be a matter of the job or goals being too big and important to screw up through or because of partisan BS. If you could assume they will put their best foot forward for them and America then does McCain seem like a good choice for the task?
 
2013-08-01 05:04:14 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Could it be a matter of the job or goals being too big and important to screw up through or because of partisan BS. If you could assume they will put their best foot forward for them and America then does McCain seem like a good choice for the task?


Dunno.. they've both spent the last 5 years criticizing every single foreign policy decision.
 
2013-08-01 05:10:58 AM  

Alphax: Uchiha_Cycliste: Could it be a matter of the job or goals being too big and important to screw up through or because of partisan BS. If you could assume they will put their best foot forward for them and America then does McCain seem like a good choice for the task?

Dunno.. they've both spent the last 5 years criticizing every single foreign policy decision.


I hear ya, it sounds like a job for Kerry, I think.
 
2013-08-01 05:11:33 AM  
heh, we are conversing in two threads I just realized.
 
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