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(Major League Baseball)   Orioles' pitcher discovers what happens when you ignore the runner at third base   (wapc.mlb.com) divider line 37
    More: Fail, Orioles, third bases, Major League Baseball, pitchers, runners  
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3340 clicks; posted to Sports » on 31 Jul 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-31 10:07:07 AM  
Where the fark was the third baseman on that one. Even on the pan out he was nowhere to be seen. No attempt to even try and keep that runner honest.
 
2013-07-31 10:10:44 AM  
It's always funny to me how guys who can throw a baseball near 100mph into a small selected area, throw like toddlers any other time.
 
2013-07-31 10:14:35 AM  
Did they draft the third baseman straight out of little league or something? Why the hell was he not on the bag and the whole infield shifted over?
 
2013-07-31 10:57:36 AM  

kidgenius: Did they draft the third baseman straight out of little league or something? Why the hell was he not on the bag and the whole infield shifted over?


The third baseman rarely of ever holds the runner on the bag anywhere other than little league.  It's not typically worth it for the runner to take a big lead, and it's not worth it to the defense to keep him close.
 
2013-07-31 10:59:48 AM  
3rd baseman was asleep along with the catcher and pitcher.

Bad combo.

The runner takes 2 or 3 test runs and nobody reacts.
 
2013-07-31 11:09:08 AM  
I could watch MLB "Must C" clips all morning.

/I think I will.
 
2013-07-31 11:16:02 AM  
Machado was deep but not incredibly far from the bag. You can see him yell as the runner moves and move for the pinch.

That was just a shiat throw from the pitcher. It was so late it hit the runner.
 
2013-07-31 12:15:11 PM  
I love straight steals of home.  They are few and far between, but they always make me smile.  The Orioles should be embarrassed that a rook pulled the wool over their eyes like that.
 
2013-07-31 12:18:32 PM  
1. The Orioles won 4-3.
2. Machado was shifted a bit behind third at the time.
3. There's no need to hold a baserunner on third. If the ball is a popped up by the batter, then the runner has to go back and tag up.  If the ball is hit for a single, the runner will likely score anyway.
4. The problem was that the pitcher did not check where the runner was at any time during his preparation.
 
2013-07-31 12:36:38 PM  

ScouserDuck: No attempt to even try and keep that runner honest.


No need to. For the runner to be far enough away to get picked off the third baseman can beat him to the bag from his normal position if they are going to try to pick him off.
 
2013-07-31 12:38:16 PM  
IIRC, the O's were in something of a shift, leaving the bag fairly unguarded.  A lefty on the mound, a speedster on 3rd and a Stros team with nothing to lose was the perfect soup for this to happen.  Hat tip to the runner.  My guess is it'll be a long time before Chen or Wieters get caught with their britches down like that again.
 
2013-07-31 12:54:25 PM  
I was at the game. Seemed like everyone in the stadium except Chen and Wieters saw Villar running. Still a cool thing to see live tho.
 
2013-07-31 01:00:49 PM  
Wow, he didn't even give the guy a look.
 
2013-07-31 01:01:51 PM  
Idunno is on third.
 
2013-07-31 01:06:18 PM  
The bases were loaded, why was he pitching from the stretch? Especially a left-hander, what base is the guy on first going to steal?
 
2013-07-31 01:08:44 PM  
Yeah, that's not on Machado at all. It's on Chen
 
2013-07-31 01:09:36 PM  

justabitdisturbed: I love straight steals of home.  They are few and far between, but they always make me smile.  The Orioles should be embarrassed that a rook pulled the wool over their eyes like that.


me too.  one of the most exciting plays in baseball.  hell, maybe THE most exciting play.  also love it when there's a grounder to third or ss, and a runner on third, and he goes.....and the play at the plate!!!
 
2013-07-31 01:36:27 PM  

JohnBigBootay: ScouserDuck: No attempt to even try and keep that runner honest.

No need to. For the runner to be far enough away to get picked off the third baseman can beat him to the bag from his normal position if they are going to try to pick him off.


He doesn't need to hold him on. But the runner was almost halfway home before he started running. The third baseman should be simultaneously yelling at his pitcher and running for his bag. There doesn't even need to be a throw to third. It would be just enough for him to step off and chase him back. It's the third baseman's fault as much as the pitchers.
 
2013-07-31 02:00:49 PM  
Was watching the game on MASN when Gary Thorne practically shiat himself when the steal went down. I was floored. How can this happen at the major league level? Right then smacked my forehead and exclaimed "Now ~THAT'S~ the Orioles I remember!"

Sadly, no one was around to hear me exclaim.

/ Nice to see Davis get some wood on the ball.
// Probably a fun game to see live.
 
2013-07-31 02:04:45 PM  

stir22: justabitdisturbed: I love straight steals of home.  They are few and far between, but they always make me smile.  The Orioles should be embarrassed that a rook pulled the wool over their eyes like that.

me too.  one of the most exciting plays in baseball.  hell, maybe THE most exciting play.  also love it when there's a grounder to third or ss, and a runner on third, and he goes.....and the play at the plate!!!


Agreed.  The most exciting play I've seen in person was the Angel Pagan inside the park run-off homer earlier this year, I couldn't believe what was happening.
 
2013-07-31 02:05:59 PM  
It's a good thing Chris Davis responded with a 2 run HR to win the game...

Chen doesn't speak English, probably couldn't understand what the other players were yelling at him..

//I kid
 
2013-07-31 02:31:49 PM  
Rules question, was that a pitch? What's the call if a runner interferes?
 
2013-07-31 02:59:13 PM  
CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!
 
2013-07-31 03:07:23 PM  
That was clearly the catcher's fault.
 
2013-07-31 03:11:07 PM  

thecpt: Rules question, was that a pitch? What's the call if a runner interferes?


It was not a pitch, it was a throw to the base like any other, and if the runner is called for interference he's out no matter where he's going from or to. But I don't know how you'd interference in a situation like this when you're the only runner.
 
2013-07-31 03:11:23 PM  

thecpt: Rules question, was that a pitch? What's the call if a runner interferes?


That's a really good question.

There are two rules that seem like they might cover this:
* Rule 5.09(h): If a legal pitch hits a runner trying to score, the ball is dead and the runners advance.
* Rule 6.05(n): If there are two strikes, and a ball hits the runner stealing home while the ball is in the strike zone, it's strike three and the ball is dead. The run doesn't count if there were two outs; it counts if there were fewer than two outs.

There were two outs, but I don't know how many strikes there were when this happened. They didn't call Rule 6.05(n), because they counted the run. But it doesn't seem like they called Rule 5.09(h) either, because the runners on first and second didn't get to advance.
 
2013-07-31 03:25:45 PM  

KickahaOta: But it doesn't seem like they called Rule 5.09(h) either


It wasn't a pitch, he was in neither the windup nor the set position. He simply turned and threw to the catcher when he realized what was happening.

KickahaOta: They didn't call Rule 6.05(n), because they counted the run


You can see in the first replay (especially if you pause it just as the ball enters the top of the zoomed frame) that the ball is nowhere near the strike zone. Had it been a pitch it would have hit the batter.
 
2013-07-31 03:32:24 PM  

skozlaw: KickahaOta: But it doesn't seem like they called Rule 5.09(h) either

It wasn't a pitch, he was in neither the windup nor the set position. He simply turned and threw to the catcher when he realized what was happening.

KickahaOta: They didn't call Rule 6.05(n), because they counted the run

You can see in the first replay (especially if you pause it just as the ball enters the top of the zoomed frame) that the ball is nowhere near the strike zone. Had it been a pitch it would have hit the batter.


Okay, so it was just a regular throw to a base hitting a runner on the base path and not trying to be hit -- so the ball would be live and the play would continue. The run would score (heck, he'd already touched home when the ball hit him), and the runners could advance at their own risk but chose not to since the ball didn't get far. Thanks!
 
2013-07-31 04:26:41 PM  

skozlaw: It was not a pitch, it was a throw to the base like any other,


What happens if the batter swings?
 
2013-07-31 04:29:04 PM  

dukeblue219: What happens if the batter swings?


Or, for a more realistic scenario, if the batter bunts on a particularly-aggressive suicide squeeze attempt? What if he bunts it foul, is it still a strike? If nothing else I know it would be a heck of a discussion on the field...
 
2013-07-31 04:59:47 PM  

dukeblue219: dukeblue219: What happens if the batter swings?

Or, for a more realistic scenario, if the batter bunts on a particularly-aggressive suicide squeeze attempt? What if he bunts it foul, is it still a strike? If nothing else I know it would be a heck of a discussion on the field...


Or hits the batter.
 
2013-07-31 07:08:20 PM  
In pro, the 3rd baseman isn't the one preventing this from happening.  It's the pitcher, with the catcher and 1st baseman giving him cues.

You don't "hold" by putting a man on 3rd base behind him - all that does is screw up your defensive fielding spacing (based on the hitter at the plate).

Since (as the video shows) they'd all have to be totally asleep not to catch him in a steal attempt, all you have to do to "hold" him is just pay the slightest attention to him.
 
2013-07-31 07:21:56 PM  

cefm: In pro, the 3rd baseman isn't the one preventing this from happening.  It's the pitcher, with the catcher and 1st baseman giving him cues.

You don't "hold" by putting a man on 3rd base behind him - all that does is screw up your defensive fielding spacing (based on the hitter at the plate).


Yep. The first baseman holds runners on 1st, while the pitcher holds runners on 2nd and 3rd. Both the catcher and third baseman have a responsibility to signal the pitcher if the runner is taking too big a lead off of 3rd, but ultimately the pitcher is responsible here.

And good on him. Usually steals of home we see aren't straight steals (like Bryce Harper's steal last year when the pitcher was throwing over to first). He caught the pitcher sleeping and was rewarded.
 
2013-07-31 07:58:04 PM  
Hats off to the rookie; goodness knows the Astros fans need something to be excited about.

And yes, the fault for this lies solely with Chen on the mound.  He's entirely focused on preventing the runners at first & second from getting an early break on the pitch, and doesn't even glance at third base.  As far as the weak throw to the plate, remember that he's trying to step off the rubber and get the throw in at the same time, so he's going to be off-balance when he makes it...at least it was close to the target and didn't allow the other runners to advance.
 
2013-07-31 09:51:54 PM  

King Something: CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!


076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com

/That was a hell of a thing.
 
2013-07-31 10:09:14 PM  
Stuff like that is why I like watching baseball. Which reminds me, I need to be watching more baseball. Haven't really been watching much this year.
 
2013-08-01 12:49:30 AM  

dukeblue219: skozlaw: It was not a pitch, it was a throw to the base like any other,

What happens if the batter swings?


You have interference.
 
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