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(Opposing Views)   Science debunks the Ouija board   (opposingviews.com) divider line 46
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2672 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Jul 2013 at 4:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-31 03:50:46 AM  
i1048.photobucket.com
Would you work for me ?
 
2013-07-31 04:07:03 AM  
Hasn't it already been debunked multiple times before this?
 
2013-07-31 04:13:09 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Hasn't it already been debunked multiple times before this?


Yeah, it being invented as a game decades before it became associated with contacting the dead should be a pretty big debunking.
 
2013-07-31 04:13:47 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Hasn't it already been debunked multiple times before this?


Yes, many times. Not the least of it being by me slyly pushing it to spell out "Kent, stop playing with yourself."
 
2013-07-31 04:19:34 AM  
I was going to say it's the same sh*t as with dowsers and water witches, but the article actually mentioned them too. And then there is that chakra stuff. Lady, spin that crystal in my face one more time and I'll rip it from your hand and stab you with it.
 
2013-07-31 04:23:07 AM  
Article doesn't really have any details, it just says the players are moving it without being aware of it.

I used one once as a preteen, and I felt myself moving it without consciously doing so. It was a strange sensation. So what's going on? What was my brain doing there?
 
2013-07-31 04:49:56 AM  
global3.memecdn.com
People were actually being paid to figure something out I heard about as a 7 year old in the 80s?
 
2013-07-31 05:27:57 AM  
YOU can go ahead and play with your witchboard all you want.  But don't act surprised when strange/bad shiat starts to happen to you.

EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. I know that has played with Ouija has had REALLY bad/strange things happen to them in their house.

Sure, it's not a scientific analysis, but I don't care.

There was a newly opened local TGIF that was plagued with seriously bad problems from day one.  Two hour ticket times, sour tasting drinks, and everyone seemed to be in a pissy mood all the time.  The local TGIF got such a bad rep in a short period of time that they sacked practically everyone and brought in a temp staff/manager.

The first thing I noticed when I dined in the bar was a Ouija board on the wall with all of the other crap/flair that usually is plastered on the walls of the TGIF.  I said to myself, Ugh, that's not good.

Well, the very first thing the temp manager did was to take down that Ouija board, and only then did things start to normalize.  But still it took them YEARS to find a permanent manager and crew.   That's how cursed the place was for just tacking a "stupid parker bros. board game" on their wall.

So, no.  fark you and your cardboard portal to curseville.

BTW, anyone remember WHY Reagan in "The Exorcist" was possessed?  Oh, yeah, that's right, Ouija board opened that door.
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-31 05:54:39 AM  

wookiemonster: BTW, anyone remember WHY Reagan in "The Exorcist" was possessed? Oh, yeah, that's right, Ouija board opened that door.


movies=reality now?

goddamn, if i'm not gonna go and have me a revenge spree and suffer no negative repercussions, and i'll get the girl of my current dreams at the end.

/sarcasm
 
2013-07-31 06:19:41 AM  
If i was dead, and the only way i could communicate with the living was through a kid playing with a Ouija board I'd be pissed and haunt them too.
 
2013-07-31 06:39:57 AM  
Psychologist Daniel Wegner, who died last month, theorized that the mental processes that control movement are not connected to different mental processes that decide what caused the movement.

oogadeboogady!!!
 
2013-07-31 06:55:40 AM  
So science is aligned with the devil now?
 
2013-07-31 07:14:31 AM  
FTFA  Apparently, the same principle applies to Ouija boards and so-called "dowsing rods" that are supposed to detect everything from water to gold under the ground.

Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

Basicly take a wire coat hanger and unbend it so its straight.  Cut it down to about the length of your forearm or therabouts it doesn't really matter but it makes it easier to hold.  Then go in about the width of your fist and make a 90 degree bend.  this is the handle.  make another one and hold each loosely in your hands so the long points are straight out and parallel to each other.  Now walk around, hold them over water or pipes and you'll see the ends cross at the point where the water is.  Step back and they uncross.  To prove it isn't just me doing it I can have people put a gold wedding ring or whatever under 1 of 3 cups or bowels without me seeing and I hold the rods over each one till it crosses.  I find the ring every time.  It works.
 
2013-07-31 07:34:49 AM  

wookiemonster: YOU can go ahead and play with your witchboard all you want.  But don't act surprised when strange/bad shiat starts to happen to you.

EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. I know that has played with Ouija has had REALLY bad/strange things happen to them in their house.

Sure, it's not a scientific analysis, but I don't care.

There was a newly opened local TGIF that was plagued with seriously bad problems from day one.  Two hour ticket times, sour tasting drinks, and everyone seemed to be in a pissy mood all the time.  The local TGIF got such a bad rep in a short period of time that they sacked practically everyone and brought in a temp staff/manager.

The first thing I noticed when I dined in the bar was a Ouija board on the wall with all of the other crap/flair that usually is plastered on the walls of the TGIF.  I said to myself, Ugh, that's not good.

Well, the very first thing the temp manager did was to take down that Ouija board, and only then did things start to normalize.  But still it took them YEARS to find a permanent manager and crew.   That's how cursed the place was for just tacking a "stupid parker bros. board game" on their wall.

So, no.  fark you and your cardboard portal to curseville.

BTW, anyone remember WHY Reagan in "The Exorcist" was possessed?  Oh, yeah, that's right, Ouija board opened that door.
[farm6.staticflickr.com image 850x637]


I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes you seriously. That was pretty awesome.
 
2013-07-31 07:35:56 AM  

Kimpak: FTFA  Apparently, the same principle applies to Ouija boards and so-called "dowsing rods" that are supposed to detect everything from water to gold under the ground.

Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

Basicly take a wire coat hanger and unbend it so its straight.  Cut it down to about the length of your forearm or therabouts it doesn't really matter but it makes it easier to hold.  Then go in about the width of your fist and make a 90 degree bend.  this is the handle.  make another one and hold each loosely in your hands so the long points are straight out and parallel to each other.  Now walk around, hold them over water or pipes and you'll see the ends cross at the point where the water is.  Step back and they uncross.  To prove it isn't just me doing it I can have people put a gold wedding ring or whatever under 1 of 3 cups or bowels without me seeing and I hold the rods over each one till it crosses.  I find the ring every time.  It works.



Maybe it's just me, but if someone told me there was a ring under 1 of 3 bowels, I'd leave it there...

;)
 
2013-07-31 07:44:12 AM  

Kimpak: FTFA  Apparently, the same principle applies to Ouija boards and so-called "dowsing rods" that are supposed to detect everything from water to gold under the ground.

Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

Basicly take a wire coat hanger and unbend it so its straight.  Cut it down to about the length of your forearm or therabouts it doesn't really matter but it makes it easier to hold.  Then go in about the width of your fist and make a 90 degree bend.  this is the handle.  make another one and hold each loosely in your hands so the long points are straight out and parallel to each other.  Now walk around, hold them over water or pipes and you'll see the ends cross at the point where the water is.  Step back and they uncross.  To prove it isn't just me doing it I can have people put a gold wedding ring or whatever under 1 of 3 cups or bowels without me seeing and I hold the rods over each one till it crosses.  I find the ring every time.  It works.




Don't be a lying sack of shiat, it doesn't reflect well on your character.
 
2013-07-31 07:46:36 AM  
It's a board game.  I suppose they will debunk Monopoly next.  "When you buy a railroad you don't actually own a real railroad.  Just a square on the board."

Hint for nerdy scientists who never got a date - Ouija was an excuse for boys and girls to hold hands back in the day.  That's it.
 
2013-07-31 07:53:14 AM  

Meethos: Don't be a lying sack of shiat, it doesn't reflect well on your character.


Not lying or trolling.  Anyone can do it.  If you've got wire coat hangers try it yourself.
 
2013-07-31 07:54:01 AM  

Kimpak: Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.


This could be some basic electromagnetic detection that we haven't really studied in full.

See, this shows that there's potential for the "supernatural" to actually have a scientific basis.  Ouija boards, no, but there's plenty of other stuff out there that hasn't really been given a fair shake with experimentation because nobody wants to shell the money to fund such research.  Even when they have some sort of experiment to do, it's not done right, and nobody is willing to repeat the experiment with corrections.

Case in point: The Afterlife Experiments.  Double-blind study that shows mediums contacting the dead with surprising levels of accuracy in the facts they were generating, and it was something that cold readers couldn't even try to duplicate.  There was a lot of different techniques to protect the experiment from bias and cheating, like limiting the person's response to yes/no questions and using a third person to do the talking, so that emotion was not shown in the voice.

James Randi poked holes into his experiment (many of which seemed trivial).  (Though, I really wished there was a cold reader to act as a "control".)  Yet, nobody bothered to repeat the experiment and James Randi's solution was to have this idiotic "million dollar" contest, which looked like a trap from 50 miles away.  Obviously, nobody took the bait, and he declared it proof that mediums won't stand against scientific rigor.

So, people like the Long Island Medium are obvious shams and cold readers, but folks like John Edward might actually be doing it for real.  We don't know for sure because nobody will repeat the damn experiment!
 
2013-07-31 07:55:06 AM  

Minerva8918: Maybe it's just me, but if someone told me there was a ring under 1 of 3 bowels, I'd leave it there...


Oops, auto-correct for the fail.
*bowl
 
2013-07-31 07:56:44 AM  

blue_2501: This could be some basic electromagnetic detection that we haven't really studied in full.


Pretty much this.  I don't believe there's anything mystical about it.  I'm 100% positive there is some science to explain it.  I am not a scientist though, so I don't have any facts to explain it.  Other than the fact that it works.
 
2013-07-31 08:03:55 AM  
The Ouija board has been debunked? Next you'll be telling me that sheep's bladders can't prevent earthquakes.
 
2013-07-31 08:41:31 AM  

Befuddled: The Ouija board has been debunked? Next you'll be telling me that sheep's bladders can't prevent earthquakes.


They don't but I have a rock that keeps away tigers.
 
2013-07-31 08:41:50 AM  
I always assumed the other people I played with were just being pricks.
 
2013-07-31 09:09:58 AM  

Slaxl: DarkSoulNoHope: Hasn't it already been debunked multiple times before this?

Yeah, it being invented as a game decades before it became associated with contacting the dead should be a pretty big debunking.


That's not scientific enough, though.

A surprising amount of science goes toward rigorously verifying what we have already known for decades if not centuries. Sometimes that's deliberate. Sometimes scientists really want a different outcome, but it frustratingly points back to what we already knew. Sometimes it takes decades, going in a really roundabout circle that sometimes looks as though it might disprove what we knew, but when the dots all connect, it still points back. Sometimes it happens differently from even these.
 
2013-07-31 09:13:07 AM  

Kimpak: Meethos: Don't be a lying sack of shiat, it doesn't reflect well on your character.

Not lying or trolling.  Anyone can do it.  If you've got wire coat hangers try it yourself.


Spentmiles, you are not.
 
2013-07-31 09:39:36 AM  
I have a negative field associated with ouija boards.  If I come within 10 feet of them, they just stop working.  Like, they just don't move for anyone.  Even two people who have great board "chemistry" just get nothing when I step into the room.  Explain that.
 
2013-07-31 09:43:35 AM  
A friend of mine (not of my faith) was a counselor at a kids' camp one year. His kids snuck out of their cabin, and he found them in the chapel, playing poker on the altar. The kids panicked, but he didn't report them; he just asked them to let him deal, because he was a lot better at that sort of thing than they were.

Then things started to get strange. One kid came up with three sixes in his hand, and everyone had a good laugh. A couple of hands later, another kid came up with three sixes. Then another, and another, and it started to happen faster and faster. When each of them got three sixes in a row, the kids freaked out, ran back to the cabin, and never snuck out again.

What the kids didn't know is that although my friend isn't actually a stage magician, he is very good at card tricks, especially those involving shuffling and forces.
 
2013-07-31 10:11:06 AM  
TFA: Psychologist Daniel Wegner, who died last month

How do you get this factoid wrong? He died this month. Not a big deal, I know, but was the author expecting this to get published tomorrow or something? Oh well.

blue_2501: Kimpak: Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

This could be some basic electromagnetic detection that we haven't really studied in full.

See, this shows that there's potential for the "supernatural" to actually have a scientific basis.  Ouija boards, no, but there's plenty of other stuff out there that hasn't really been given a fair shake with experimentation because nobody wants to shell the money to fund such research.  Even when they have some sort of experiment to do, it's not done right, and nobody is willing to repeat the experiment with corrections.

Case in point: The Afterlife Experiments.  Double-blind study that shows mediums contacting the dead with surprising levels of accuracy in the facts they were generating, and it was something that cold readers couldn't even try to duplicate.  There was a lot of different techniques to protect the experiment from bias and cheating, like limiting the person's response to yes/no questions and using a third person to do the talking, so that emotion was not shown in the voice.

James Randi poked holes into his experiment (many of which seemed trivial).  (Though, I really wished there was a cold reader to act as a "control".)  Yet, nobody bothered to repeat the experiment and James Randi's solution was to have this idiotic "million dollar" contest, which looked like a trap from 50 miles away.  Obviously, nobody took the bait, and he declared it proof that mediums won't stand against scientific rigor.

So, people like the Long Island Medium are obvious shams and cold readers, but folks like John Edward might actually be doing it for real.  We don't know for sure because nobody will repeat the damn experiment!


This is quite telling of your own lack of awareness of the kinds of studies that have been conducted. But studies to test parapsychological claims have a long and storied history. Here are a few examples of true experimental procedures to test psychic/medium/clairvoyant/ESP claims across a rather long range of time.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/000712605X36361/abstract

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1995-12414-001

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=56166

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/000712699161378/abstract

This stuff is studied, quite extensively, and quite often. Across a range of contexts, a range of methodologies, and a range of sample populations the results are pretty consistent. This ain't real.

Also, I have to take issue with your assertion early on that no one is willing to fund this type of research. This is wrong for a couple of reasons. First, there are organizations and individuals out there that are eager to dump loads of money into this stuff. Including the government (re: Men Who Stare at Goats). Second, most really good (i.e. methodologically rigorous enough) study designs to test this stuff are actually relatively cheap. It isn't just James Randi who's looking at this stuff. And there are plenty of replications.
 
2013-07-31 10:21:24 AM  

Kome: TFA: Psychologist Daniel Wegner, who died last month

How do you get this factoid wrong? He died this month. Not a big deal, I know, but was the author expecting this to get published tomorrow or something? Oh well.

blue_2501: Kimpak: Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

This could be some basic electromagnetic detection that we haven't really studied in full.

See, this shows that there's potential for the "supernatural" to actually have a scientific basis.  Ouija boards, no, but there's plenty of other stuff out there that hasn't really been given a fair shake with experimentation because nobody wants to shell the money to fund such research.  Even when they have some sort of experiment to do, it's not done right, and nobody is willing to repeat the experiment with corrections.

Case in point: The Afterlife Experiments.  Double-blind study that shows mediums contacting the dead with surprising levels of accuracy in the facts they were generating, and it was something that cold readers couldn't even try to duplicate.  There was a lot of different techniques to protect the experiment from bias and cheating, like limiting the person's response to yes/no questions and using a third person to do the talking, so that emotion was not shown in the voice.

James Randi poked holes into his experiment (many of which seemed trivial).  (Though, I really wished there was a cold reader to act as a "control".)  Yet, nobody bothered to repeat the experiment and James Randi's solution was to have this idiotic "million dollar" contest, which looked like a trap from 50 miles away.  Obviously, nobody took the bait, and he declared it proof that mediums won't stand against scientific rigor.

So, people like the Long Island Medium are obvious shams and cold readers, but folks like John Edward might actually be doing it for real.  We don't know for sure because nobody will repeat the damn experiment!

This is quite telling of your own lack of awareness of the kinds of studies that have been conducted. But studies to test parapsychological claims have a long and storied history. Here are a few examples of true experimental procedures to test psychic/medium/clairvoyant/ESP claims across a rather long range of time.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/000712605X36361/abstract

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1995-12414-001

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=56166

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1348/000712699161378/abstract

This stuff is studied, quite extensively, and quite often. Across a range of contexts, a range of methodologies, and a range of sample populations the results are pretty consistent. This ain't real.

Also, I have to take issue with your assertion early on that no one is willing to fund this type of research. This is wrong for a couple of reasons. First, there are organizations and individuals out there that are eager to dump loads of money into this stuff. Including the government (re: Men Who Stare at Goats). Second, most really good (i.e. methodologically rigorous enough) study designs to test this stuff are actually relatively cheap. It isn't just James Randi who's looking at this stuff. And there are plenty of replications.


It's easier just to repeat that The Man holds down bunkum that's been disproved a bunch of times by saying "yeah, but they've just never tested a REAL psychic, like this guy I heard about that says he's the real deal, no fooling. I mean, if quantum theory is right, anything can happen at any time for no reason. Didn't you science nerds think you had it all figured out until one day there were all these discoveries that turned everything upside down?"
 
2013-07-31 11:44:36 AM  

Kimpak: FTFA  Apparently, the same principle applies to Ouija boards and so-called "dowsing rods" that are supposed to detect everything from water to gold under the ground.

Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

Basicly take a wire coat hanger and unbend it so its straight.  Cut it down to about the length of your forearm or therabouts it doesn't really matter but it makes it easier to hold.  Then go in about the width of your fist and make a 90 degree bend.  this is the handle.  make another one and hold each loosely in your hands so the long points are straight out and parallel to each other.  Now walk around, hold them over water or pipes and you'll see the ends cross at the point where the water is.  Step back and they uncross.  To prove it isn't just me doing it I can have people put a gold wedding ring or whatever under 1 of 3 cups or bowels without me seeing and I hold the rods over each one till it crosses.  I find the ring every time.  It works.


No. Dowsing rods do not work. It has never been shown to work under controlled conditions. If you could do this under said controlled conditions, James Randi would like to give you 1 million dollars.
See also confirmation bias...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dowsing
 
2013-07-31 02:08:41 PM  

lonomoholo: Kimpak: FTFA  Apparently, the same principle applies to Ouija boards and so-called "dowsing rods" that are supposed to detect everything from water to gold under the ground.

Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

Basicly take a wire coat hanger and unbend it so its straight.  Cut it down to about the length of your forearm or therabouts it doesn't really matter but it makes it easier to hold.  Then go in about the width of your fist and make a 90 degree bend.  this is the handle.  make another one and hold each loosely in your hands so the long points are straight out and parallel to each other.  Now walk around, hold them over water or pipes and you'll see the ends cross at the point where the water is.  Step back and they uncross.  To prove it isn't just me doing it I can have people put a gold wedding ring or whatever under 1 of 3 cups or bowels without me seeing and I hold the rods over each one till it crosses.  I find the ring every time.  It works.

No. Dowsing rods do not work. It has never been shown to work under controlled conditions. If you could do this under said controlled conditions, James Randi would like to give you 1 million dollars.
See also confirmation bias...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dowsing


This is interesting to me considering a recent conversation with a co-worker about this and water.

Basically the neighborhood she lives in all use well water with some homes having many wells.  She had one or two and they were drying up, or not providing enough water so she had the professionals come in and help find water and they test drilled a few spots with no luck and suggested to her that she call in a dowser.

Eventually she got another well drilled with plenty of water in it, I'd have to ask if she did hire a dowser but I'm surprised that professional drillers for wells and whatnot would refer a customer to a dowser.  Unless it's some kind of joint scam.
 
2013-07-31 02:14:07 PM  
Also find it interesting that wikipedia trumps rationalwiki with information about dowsing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Scientific_appraisal


It's almost as if the writers on rationalwiki are pompous, holier-than-though, knowitalls

Who knew?

/very skeptical of everything
 
2013-07-31 03:02:50 PM  
The "Amazing" Randi is such a debunker that he couldnt figure out his live-in boy toy was illegally in the US for decades and got away with this by stealing someone's identity. Exposing preachers bilking people out of money does not make him the end all be all of rational discourse.

Also, the million dollar challenge is a joke. Its completely one-sided, biased, and the chances for anyone to succede both challenges is about as good as a lightning strike making one turn into Thor. The pecentage above chance is so high that it stupid even to attempt it.
 
2013-07-31 03:35:17 PM  

The Billdozer: The "Amazing" Randi is such a debunker that he couldnt figure out his live-in boy toy was illegally in the US for decades and got away with this by stealing someone's identity. Exposing preachers bilking people out of money does not make him the end all be all of rational discourse.

Also, the million dollar challenge is a joke. Its completely one-sided, biased, and the chances for anyone to succede both challenges is about as good as a lightning strike making one turn into Thor. The pecentage above chance is so high that it stupid even to attempt it.


Well, you have certainly proved the occurrence of paranormal phenomena through your baseless dismissal of the "million dollar challenge".
 
2013-07-31 03:42:38 PM  

nitefallz: Also find it interesting that wikipedia trumps rationalwiki with information about dowsing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Scientific_appraisal


It's almost as if the writers on rationalwiki are pompous, holier-than-though, knowitalls

Who knew?

/very skeptical of everything


According to RationalWiki:
"Numerous controlled studies of dowsing (the first one being conducted in 1641[1]) have consistently demonstrated that it simply doesn't work; dowsers are no better than chance at detecting hidden metals or water. "

According to Wikipedia:
"A 1948 study tested 58 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance"
"A 2006 study of grave dowsing in Iowa reviewed 14 published studies and determined that none of them correctly predicted the location of human burials, and simple scientific experiments demonstrated the fundamental principles commonly used to explain grave dowsing were incorrect."
"More recently a study[18] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (GWUP) [Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences]. The three-day test of some 30 dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100 percent success rate. However, the results were no better than chance."
 
2013-07-31 03:51:48 PM  

LiberalWeenie: Article doesn't really have any details, it just says the players are moving it without being aware of it.

I used one once as a preteen, and I felt myself moving it without consciously doing so. It was a strange sensation. So what's going on? What was my brain doing there?


Yes, specifically it's more of the subconscious and/or unconscious mind communicating with your conscious mind.
 
2013-07-31 03:56:30 PM  

The Billdozer: The "Amazing" Randi is such a debunker that he couldnt figure out his live-in boy toy was illegally in the US for decades and got away with this by stealing someone's identity. Exposing preachers bilking people out of money does not make him the end all be all of rational discourse.

Also, the million dollar challenge is a joke. Its completely one-sided, biased, and the chances for anyone to succede both challenges is about as good as a lightning strike making one turn into Thor. The pecentage above chance is so high that it stupid even to attempt it.


You wouldn't say that if you had magic powers.
 
2013-07-31 03:57:52 PM  

The Billdozer: The "Amazing" Randi is such a debunker that he couldnt figure out his live-in boy toy was illegally in the US for decades and got away with this by stealing someone's identity. Exposing preachers bilking people out of money does not make him the end all be all of rational discourse.

Also, the million dollar challenge is a joke. Its completely one-sided, biased, and the chances for anyone to succede both challenges is about as good as a lightning strike making one turn into Thor. The pecentage above chance is so high that it stupid even to attempt it.


Interesting.

I wonder if there's a way to put up some cutting edge scientific research against the criteria for the million dollar challenge that would prove it's a joke.  Perhaps something with the Higgs Boson or string theory.
 
2013-07-31 04:40:36 PM  

blue_2501: Kimpak: Dowsing rods work.  Anyone can do it with bent coat hangers.  I've used it to find buried pipes, septic tanks, gold, some electronics stuff.

This could be some basic electromagnetic detection that we haven't really studied in full.

See, this shows that there's potential for the "supernatural" to actually have a scientific basis.  Ouija boards, no, but there's plenty of other stuff out there that hasn't really been given a fair shake with experimentation because nobody wants to shell the money to fund such research.  Even when they have some sort of experiment to do, it's not done right, and nobody is willing to repeat the experiment with corrections.

Case in point: The Afterlife Experiments.  Double-blind study that shows mediums contacting the dead with surprising levels of accuracy in the facts they were generating, and it was something that cold readers couldn't even try to duplicate.  There was a lot of different techniques to protect the experiment from bias and cheating, like limiting the person's response to yes/no questions and using a third person to do the talking, so that emotion was not shown in the voice.

James Randi poked holes into his experiment (many of which seemed trivial).  (Though, I really wished there was a cold reader to act as a "control".)  Yet, nobody bothered to repeat the experiment and James Randi's solution was to have this idiotic "million dollar" contest, which looked like a trap from 50 miles away.  Obviously, nobody took the bait, and he declared it proof that mediums won't stand against scientific rigor.

So, people like the Long Island Medium are obvious shams and cold readers, but folks like John Edward might actually be doing it for real.  We don't know for sure because nobody will repeat the damn experiment!


Not really. You can't really test something that is not testable. If "ghosts" are spirits, then that implies there is a god. One cannot test the existence of god or heaven. How can someone contact something that in theory, cannot exist because we cannot test their existence. You want to try to falsify your  hypotheses rather than prove them. This removes confirmation bias, and other issues.
 
2013-07-31 04:49:25 PM  

The Billdozer: The "Amazing" Randi is such a debunker that he couldnt figure out his live-in boy toy was illegally in the US for decades and got away with this by stealing someone's identity. Exposing preachers bilking people out of money does not make him the end all be all of rational discourse.

Also, the million dollar challenge is a joke. Its completely one-sided, biased, and the chances for anyone to succede both challenges is about as good as a lightning strike making one turn into Thor. The pecentage above chance is so high that it stupid even to attempt it.


What sources are you using to prove that the Million Dollar Challenge is bunk? The fact that none of the thousands of "psychics" ever even tried to do the experiment? Or could it be that they know they are fake and didn't want to embarrass themselves...
 
2013-08-01 12:45:12 AM  

Zeppelininthesky: If "ghosts" are spirits, then that implies there is a god.


No it doesn't. There could just as easily be "ghosts" without a god as a god without ghosts.
 
2013-08-01 01:14:43 AM  

TopoGigo: Zeppelininthesky: If "ghosts" are spirits, then that implies there is a god.

No it doesn't. There could just as easily be "ghosts" without a god as a god without ghosts.


Can we define what a ghost actually is with scientific observation?
 
2013-08-01 01:25:18 AM  

Zeppelininthesky: TopoGigo: Zeppelininthesky: If "ghosts" are spirits, then that implies there is a god.

No it doesn't. There could just as easily be "ghosts" without a god as a god without ghosts.

Can we define what a ghost actually is with scientific observation?


Of course not, because they don't exist.
 
2013-08-01 12:46:21 PM  
This really should have linked to the BBC story, which actually used some science.

This article says "Some movements aren't conscious (NSS). OUIJA BOARD DEBUNKED!"
 
2013-08-01 03:33:52 PM  
Im not one to do others research for them, but there are occurances of the MDC changing the rules of the game of people trying to present their abilities or findings. Also, there really isnt a scientific standard behind it. You have to prove it to the MDC's satisifcation, not to an neutral agreed upon deifition of "supernatural".
 
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