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(Huffington Post)   How much more would a Big Mac cost if McDonald's were to double employees' pay? Take a guess, then click the link   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 761
    More: Interesting, Big Macs, Mcdonald, Jimmy John Liautaud, living wages, University of Kansas, minimum wages, salary  
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39545 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2013 at 6:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-31 09:18:57 AM  
Yes, we can make everyone magically ritch by waving a wand and increasing all wages. Why han't anyone thought of this before?

You want a better wage? Get a better job. Develop yourself so you can get a better one.  Overqualifed and can't currently get a better job? Well, suck it up, life has its ups and downs.  but if a lot of time goes by and you still can't get a better job, maybe you aren't overqualified.  Maybe you do suck, or have losusy job search skills or have failed to read the current job market and adapt accordingly.  Or maybe your skill set or labor simply isn't valued anymore.  Thats your problem.  You aren't owed a decent living, or a living wage.  You have to go out and earn it.
 
2013-07-31 09:25:36 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: ferretman: FTA: "In other words, for every dollar McDonald's earns, a little more than 17 cents goes toward the income and benefits of its <a data-cke-saved-href="http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/04/news/companies/mc donalds_jobs/index.ht m" target="_hplink">more than 500,000 U.S. employees."

Yes...there are no other costs besides employee pay and benefits. What the student hasn't taken into account, if minimum wage was doubled, the rising costs associated with the suppliers, the ones who manufacture the beef patties, chicken nuggets, soda syrup, shake mix, french fries, fish sandwiches, packaging suppliers, etc. These are all manufactured by other companies under contract to, in this case, McDonalds and are typically union-shops (at least on the east coast). If everyone's wages increase the product cost will increase and there will be less jobs.

More people earning more money will allow them to spend more in their local economies supporting other businesses that will then earn more profits and be able to expand hiring more employees and creating more jobs.


PHHHFFF!!  that sounds like trickle up economics to me!!  trickle down economics has served us well over these past 30 years, lets not go changing things willy nilly.
 
2013-07-31 09:34:16 AM  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
The Second Bill of Rights was a list of rights proposed by Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944.[1] In his address Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:
Employment, with a living wage
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
Housing
Medical care
Education


It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people-whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth-is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights-among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.
As our nation has grown in size and stature, however-as our industrial economy expanded-these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.
We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men."[3] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all-regardless of station, race, or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.
For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.
 
2013-07-31 09:38:57 AM  
Jormungandr
The real question here is "What is a human worth apart from what they can presently contribute?"
cdn.pocket-lint.com
This bad boy, or its descendents are the future of fast food. The death knell for the McJob is tolling. So this whole argument is really moot.
The military is automating too, if burger flipping and gruntwork are out what then? That is the question! Answering the phones goes overseas or hell, automation is hitting there (call the Microsoft activation line: you never talk to a real person) too. What do you do with the grunts when all the grunt work is gone?

Here's a thought: Maybe the grunts aren't useless inherently (I have a hard time with the idea of someone being inherently worthless) education could be the problem, education isn't designed to foster creative thought and educating children in things that require a developed prefrontal cortex doesn't work. Could the answer just be educating adults to tutor children, that might take a couple generations to make significant change, but something must happen because the changes are coming and they will come quickly and they will not be something that can be ignored. Of course doing nothing will lead to legions of desperate people with no prospects. Desperate people do desperate things and none of us want that, except those who want to watch the world burn.


The issue is that the machines are owned by a relatively few capitalists, and so they recieve all the savings from increased efficiency. Automation should not be bad- it just should be owned by the workers or society. If a worker gets replaced by a machine, it should mean that that worker now has more free time, not that they get evicted and the owner gets an extra $30,000 a year to spend on a marginally bigger yacht.
 
2013-07-31 09:46:19 AM  
incrdbil
You want a better wage? Get a better job. Develop yourself so you can get a better one. Overqualifed and can't currently get a better job? Well, suck it up, life has its ups and downs. but if a lot of time goes by and you still can't get a better job, maybe you aren't overqualified. Maybe you do suck, or have losusy job search skills or have failed to read the current job market and adapt accordingly. Or maybe your skill set or labor simply isn't valued anymore. Thats your problem. You aren't owed a decent living, or a living wage. You have to go out and earn it.

An environment in which 10 people apply to every job is exactly the same as an environment in which 100 people apply to every job and your personal results can never be adversely affected by conditions. This is why everyone born in Liberia or Bolivia who works hard ends up with exactly the same lifestyle as suburban Americans.
 
2013-07-31 09:51:42 AM  

ph0rk: Pray 4 Mojo: /If you work at Mcdonalds in an attempt to support anyone other than yourself, at some point, you failed at life.

"Failure" shouldn't mean near permanent poverty of the type many of these workers experience.


Everyone is capable of success. If they fail, others should not have to pick them up. Nobody in this country is poor. If they experienced real poverty, like the Great Depression, they might be motivated.
 
2013-07-31 09:58:32 AM  
Just remember, the day McDonalds is forced to pay double minimum wage for their worker drones is the day McDonalds rolls out the first all-vending machine restaurant in the industry.  Liberals dreams will be fulfilled at all those new $15/hr jobs for vending machine repairmen.
 
2013-07-31 10:04:33 AM  

Bonanza Jellybean: How much more would a Big Mac cost if a Big Mac did cost more?

[www.annerobertson.com image 390x268]


Hey you Woodchucks, quite chucking my wood!
 
2013-07-31 10:13:25 AM  

bunner: MythDragon: And the Burger King. The farking Burger King. I order a 8 piece chicken nugget. That was it. Just 8 nuggets. No fries, no drink to confuse them. Just 8 little nuggets. They jack it up. How bad? I didn't get 6 nuggets by mistake. I didnyt get chicken fries instead of nuggets. I didn't even get a chicken product at all. (And before I go any further, I'll point out I ordered like a normal person. "8 piece nugget, please". I wasn't being an asshole to them, so they felt they needed to fark with me) I got a sasuage patty. I'll type that again. Sasuage patty. In the nugget box. The box itself says what goes in there. It's like some guy was standing there. A nugget box in one hand, a set of tongs in the other. And in a moment of utter shock, he realized he had no farking idea of what to do next. Looking at the screen was like reading a foriegn language. "8 pc nugget"? What are those strange glowing runes? Panic set in. He can't just stand there all day with box and tongs in hand. He had to do something. ANYTHING. Thinking quickly, he grabs the first thing he sees. A round, blackened sasuage patty. The fact that this was 3pm and there shouldnt even have *been* any sasuage patties as breakfast ended 5 hours ago didn't even register (at least not on a concious level). By the gods, he had an item, and he was gonna make it work. With a new found speed that would make a cheeta envious, he slaps the dry hunk of what used to be food into the box, tosses it into a bag with 30 napkins and steps back with a  smile and proclaims "Mission acomplished! I'm going to go smoke some weed!"

Meanwhile, in Ookabollapongistan.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x264]


Meanwhile in Kinisonville
static.tvtropes.org
 
2013-07-31 10:15:34 AM  

MythDragon: Meanwhile in Kinisonville


Still waiting on those NATO relocation trucks in Ookabollapongistan.  Perhaps with a couple bowls of rice in the cab so they don't die on the way to the promised land.
 
2013-07-31 10:17:03 AM  

Thunderpipes: ph0rk: Pray 4 Mojo: /If you work at Mcdonalds in an attempt to support anyone other than yourself, at some point, you failed at life.

"Failure" shouldn't mean near permanent poverty of the type many of these workers experience.

Everyone is capable of success. If they fail, others should not have to pick them up. Nobody in this country is poor. If they experienced real poverty, like the Great Depression, they might be motivated.


Bullshiat. We have public eduction, and public libraries because we believe an educated society is in our best interests. We pay taxes for cops/firefighters because we feel its better when all of us are better off when our houses burn down/criminals are off the streets. The idea that if you fail, you're on your own does not reflect that as a society we are best when we work to enable each other and help each other. The whole pull yourself up by your bootstraps is bullshiat, how about you go live in Somalia and prove that you can pull yourself up from your bootstraps without others.
 
2013-07-31 10:17:07 AM  

Aarontology: ferretman: If everyone's wages increase the product cost will increase and there will be less jobs.

So when are you going to go ask your boss for a reduction in your pay in order to create jobs?


Do you have any idea how expensive my bootstraps are?
 
2013-07-31 10:17:59 AM  

Raharu: Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.


Why did Roosevelt hate freedoms?  Damn soshiat commniss summab*tch'd have Lenin eating our puppies in a heartbeat!  Probably a Muslim, too.
 
2013-07-31 10:40:52 AM  

WhyteRaven74: divx88: So ... some random student's research which more than likely has huge gaping holes of data is taken seriously?

His research is consistent with everything else ever written on the subject .That it's a student who did it maters not at all. It's research anyone could do. A person's position or title does not grant authority to research nor does lack of same take that authority away.

tenpoundsofcheese: You mean the company that admitted they used 15000 slaves and concentration camp people to build cars? I don't think they had good pensions back then.

They sure weren't using those people in 1950. And one of the most iconic of German car companies was created in the aftermath of the war in circumstances that were to say the least a challenge. I trust though that you've heard of Porsche.


Most of the German companies (like VW) were part of the German war machine during WWII.
 
2013-07-31 10:44:54 AM  
On a slightly related subject this is why liberals (mostly the democrat aligned liberals) are hypocrites.

Have you ever heard any liberals complain about payroll taxes? The number one regressive tax that all "working poor". When democrats controlled congress and the executive they could have done something about it. They could have easily said "we are removing the pay roll tax and moving that number to the top tax brackets". Instant 10% raise for the "working poor".
 
2013-07-31 10:47:08 AM  
So many experts when it comes to other peoples money and business, start your own and pay them what you think is "fair" or STFU and get back in moms basement
 
2013-07-31 10:54:22 AM  
I'm not an economics major but I think that most of the problems that land our people in poverty/check-to-check have nothing to do with the minimum wage. It seems that endless meddling in the economy by the government  away from the wage scales is having more of a negative effect on those that do not have cash.

For pretty much every segment of our economy, State and Federal congresses have enacted subsidies and/or regulation that affects how these businesses can interact. One example would be the corn-for-ethanol subsidy inflating corn prices, which affects everything down-stream of corn and grain prices: feed costs increase, beef costs increase, Big Mac prices go up, and so forth. I include grain because farmers will grow corn on land versus other grains because the price to sell is more attractive, which makes other grains more scarce, driving their costs up.

Another example is the preferential treatment given to some business segments. For instance, Tesla Motors opened a direct dealership in Colorado and the other dealerships immediately lobbied and received a law from the legislature that made opening new such shop illegal. This prevents a new business model from evolving which may benefit the consumer in order to benefit a specific segment of businesses. This is done state-by-state and at the federal level all the time.

We also currently make it darn-near impossible to get new power-plants online. Nuclear plants, for instance, could be built in the middle of nowhere and be used to generate most of our power for cheaper than most other sources (Or smaller thorium generators more densely packed around areas that need the most power as an alternative to the traditional centralized plants). But getting a permit to build new nuclear plants is difficult, to say the least.

My last example is in the area of general business regulation. The effect of things like Sarbanes-Oxley ("SOX") really dampens publicly-traded businesses. To summarize the effect, it basically forces public companies to care only about profit. Sure, you can go the CostCo route, but it's a risky venture, especially if your profits ever hit a down-turn. Your shareholders will destroy your company's governing board and replace it with people who will do nothing but change the company until profits are enhanced. This creates a very difficult atmosphere for change in the large public companies. Short term profit - as many have said on Fark before - is what companies affected by SOX are about, now-a-days.

Instead of concentrating on the wages of what the lowest-skilled segments of society make, we should look to why we need to raise these wages in the first place. We should look to make regulations that can be applied to make businesses accountable (especially in the long-term) but not hold them back both from failure (if a new business model comes along that's better) or experimentation (to create that new business model). We regulated and subsidized our way into this and, really, the only way off the treadmill of continual inflation and minimum wage hikes every decade is to make the costs that these regulations and subsidies currently inflict on the economy either more streamlined or gone altogether.

I'm not saying we should end at laissez-fare, but responsible policies regarding business and the economy would be the best step forward we could take, instead of the current hodge-podge of rules, regulations, and subsidization that we currently have.
 
2013-07-31 10:55:31 AM  
If this is correct, at my salary in order to afford this 68¢ increase so a minimum wage employee could make $15/hour -- I'd have to work an additional 0.0035 seconds per BigMac.  Sounds reasonable to me.
 
2013-07-31 11:00:58 AM  
$0.68 more for a Big Mac!?


i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-31 11:08:07 AM  
I saw a guy eat a big mac in one bite.
 
2013-07-31 11:11:54 AM  

Carn: Thunderpipes: If entry level jobs get good pay, who would ever want to move up?

Libs need to get real. The world needs ditch diggers too.

You're right, let's bring back indentured servitude.  No, f*ck it, full on feudalism!  It really was the best economic system!



It was... :(

www.quotesworthrepeating.com
 
2013-07-31 11:20:24 AM  
CORRECTION: An earlier version of this story misrepresented Arnobio Morelix as a researcher for the University of Kansas. Morelix is registered as a undergraduate student at the university, according to University of Kansas School of Business Communications Director Austin Falley.

Heh.
 
2013-07-31 11:20:47 AM  

leadmetal: Your table is missing the why's and how fors.


And you are inserting your conjecture in place of that information. Maybe you are right, maybe they try REAL, REAL hard every single year, but dangit, nearly every single year, those damn prices still have to go up.

You asserted that an increase in labor prices would not cause the prices of food to go up, because no business will willingly raise its prices, because you are a subject matter expert with extensive experience with "product".

And I say that clearly, as DEMONSTRATED by the previous 25 years of data, that the price of a BigMac does, in fact, nearly ALWAYS go up. Even when there has been no increase in labor costs due to minimum wage increases, and always when there is a minimum wage increase.

How hard the "tried", what they "wanted to avoid", what they "wanted to do"? That's all conjecture, and you seem to think it matters.

And I'm saying at the end of the day, the price of a Big Mac most certainly goes up regularly, and it is silly to think that McDonalds is averse to passing on cost increases to their customers. How do I know?

Because they do it nearly EVERY YEAR for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.
 
2013-07-31 11:21:16 AM  

Thunderpipes: "Failure" shouldn't mean near permanent poverty of the type many of these workers experience.

Everyone is capable of success. If they fail, others should not have to pick them up. N


generatormeme.com
 
2013-07-31 12:17:17 PM  

bunner: MythDragon: Meanwhile in Kinisonville

Still waiting on those NATO relocation trucks in Ookabollapongistan.  Perhaps with a couple bowls of rice in the cab so they don't die on the way to the promised land.



We sent them
t2.gstatic.com
She ate all the rice and sat in the trucks running the A/C
 
2013-07-31 12:24:39 PM  

MythDragon: bunner: MythDragon: Meanwhile in Kinisonville

Still waiting on those NATO relocation trucks in Ookabollapongistan.  Perhaps with a couple bowls of rice in the cab so they don't die on the way to the promised land.


We sent them
[t2.gstatic.com image 273x184]
She ate all the rice and sat in the trucks running the A/C


You just don't know when to let a sh*t joke go, do ya?  :  )
 
2013-07-31 12:41:23 PM  

bunner: MythDragon: bunner: MythDragon: Meanwhile in Kinisonville

Still waiting on those NATO relocation trucks in Ookabollapongistan.  Perhaps with a couple bowls of rice in the cab so they don't die on the way to the promised land.


We sent them
[t2.gstatic.com image 273x184]
She ate all the rice and sat in the trucks running the A/C

You just don't know when to let a sh*t joke go, do ya?  :  )


I hang on to the bitter end. Once it's dead, and I've raped it's corpse a couple more times, I'll let it go.

/would you like flies with that?
 
2013-07-31 12:49:50 PM  
To make a long story short, if you double the pay of the McDonalds employees, you had better be prepared to double the pay of everybody else too, from the lettuce pickers to the babe that peels and sticks the Sesame Seeds to the buns. And that means you have to double the profits of all their employers, and double the energy costs, and the pay of their employees, and the pay of the truck drivers, etc., etc. etc.


And what you have actually done is double the cost of the Big Mac.
 
2013-07-31 01:28:18 PM  

ferretman: WhyteRaven74: divx88: So ... some random student's research which more than likely has huge gaping holes of data is taken seriously?

His research is consistent with everything else ever written on the subject .That it's a student who did it maters not at all. It's research anyone could do. A person's position or title does not grant authority to research nor does lack of same take that authority away.

tenpoundsofcheese: You mean the company that admitted they used 15000 slaves and concentration camp people to build cars? I don't think they had good pensions back then.

They sure weren't using those people in 1950. And one of the most iconic of German car companies was created in the aftermath of the war in circumstances that were to say the least a challenge. I trust though that you've heard of Porsche.

Most of the German companies (like VW) were part of the German war machine during WWII.


Dr. Ferdinand Porsche helped develop the Tiger Tank.

/achtung panzer.
 
2013-07-31 01:31:15 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: gameshowhost: tenpoundsofcheese: gameshowhost: tenpoundsofcheese:

You do realize that minimum wage laws are an externality that you said shouldn't exist for their to be a level playing field right?


Supply and demand will always create a difference in market power so that is the second bullet to your argument.

1) Minimum wage laws are price floors that *address* the market failure "not a level playing field".  Get your cause-effect in order.

You said:  "That underlying, rigid structure is predicated on 1) there being no externalities to the transaction" so floor or not,minimum wage laws are externalities that prevent efficient pricing.

2) i... wat... just, wat?

You also said there needs to be a level playing field.  Supply and demand influence pricing in the labor markets as well as who has the advantage on the playing field.

I. You left out the fact that I also said that 2) all players must be price takers.

I left it out because your argument failed at the first argument - you were arguing against minimum wages since it is an externality.


II. You're making no sense.  The germane idea is that a level playing field is a prerequisite to achieving an efficient market outcome...and I'm going to bed

No, efficiency comes from supply meeting demand at a price point which inherently has one party have an advantage in determining the price.

Yes, you should go to bed since you are obviously tired, very tired.


Towelie, you're the worst economist ever.
 
2013-07-31 02:02:37 PM  
When will we run out of Fine Arts grads?
 
2013-07-31 02:18:53 PM  

ferretman: could hire but taxes on small businesses is 39.6%


Bullshiat
 
2013-07-31 02:31:13 PM  
This research comes as fast-food workers across the country strike for a $15 per hour minimum wage.

Yeah... umm... no.  That is beyond unrealistic...  I never made that much money even when doing tech support...
 
2013-07-31 02:32:16 PM  

Pangea: ferretman: could hire but taxes on small businesses is 39.6%

Bullshiat


Just to shorten the derp loop, I'll post my evidence. 39.6% only applies to the amount of WEEKLY income that exceeds $7735.

Do you have a lot of people earning more than $193/hour who would result in this tax rate?

From:  http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
teamshocker.com
 
2013-07-31 02:43:44 PM  

Deep Contact: They should have 3 scales for min. wage based on age.
15 to 17 would be $3/hr
17 to 21 would be $7/hr
21+ would be $15/hr
Now go do the math.


congratulations.  You just made everyone of drinking age lose their jobs...
 
2013-07-31 03:06:16 PM  

RanDomino: incrdbil
You want a better wage? Get a better job. Develop yourself so you can get a better one. Overqualifed and can't currently get a better job? Well, suck it up, life has its ups and downs. but if a lot of time goes by and you still can't get a better job, maybe you aren't overqualified. Maybe you do suck, or have losusy job search skills or have failed to read the current job market and adapt accordingly. Or maybe your skill set or labor simply isn't valued anymore. Thats your problem. You aren't owed a decent living, or a living wage. You have to go out and earn it.

An environment in which 10 people apply to every job is exactly the same as an environment in which 100 people apply to every job and your personal results can never be adversely affected by conditions. This is why everyone born in Liberia or Bolivia who works hard ends up with exactly the same lifestyle as suburban Americans.


When I applied for my current job, I was the only qualified person to apply. They even had to advertise the job at a higher wage a couple of times before I came along. If you're applying for a job that 100 other applicants can do, and you're not a kid with no family or responsibilities, you're already a failure.
 
2013-07-31 03:09:28 PM  

DrPainMD: RanDomino: incrdbil
You want a better wage? Get a better job. Develop yourself so you can get a better one. Overqualifed and can't currently get a better job? Well, suck it up, life has its ups and downs. but if a lot of time goes by and you still can't get a better job, maybe you aren't overqualified. Maybe you do suck, or have losusy job search skills or have failed to read the current job market and adapt accordingly. Or maybe your skill set or labor simply isn't valued anymore. Thats your problem. You aren't owed a decent living, or a living wage. You have to go out and earn it.

An environment in which 10 people apply to every job is exactly the same as an environment in which 100 people apply to every job and your personal results can never be adversely affected by conditions. This is why everyone born in Liberia or Bolivia who works hard ends up with exactly the same lifestyle as suburban Americans.

When I applied for my current job, I was the only qualified person to apply. They even had to advertise the job at a higher wage a couple of times before I came along. If you're applying for a job that 100 other applicants can do, and you're not a kid with no family or responsibilities, you're already a failure.


Congratulations.  You were lucky enough to acquire a skill that is rare and/or in demand.  Not everybody is.
 
2013-07-31 03:13:05 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Congratulations. You were lucky enough to acquire a skill that is rare and/or in demand. Not everybody is.


It's unfortunate that you are unable to see why that is not luck.
 
2013-07-31 03:21:01 PM  

Pangea: ferretman: could hire but taxes on small businesses is 39.6%

Bullshiat


So it's like tax rate debates.

Here in CA, I'm running around on something like 33% total, 40% marginal (and that only goes up.  You double your income to get 50% more takehome).  Except that the first $10K are more or less free, so that probably goes down around 30%.  If I had crotchfruits, I'd get another several thousand.  If I had a home, I'd be paying $15,000 a year in property taxes (Yay for multimillion dollar homes), BUT I could deduct the $30-40000 in mortgage interest off my taxes.  All of a sudden, I've dropped a couple brackets and I'm probably banging around 35% at 150K instead of the I'm theoretically paying (or they start getting capital gains and peak at 27%.)

/Don't move here unless you want to know how it's possible to be poor at $70K and middle class on a half million.  Seriously, people are super-rich and super-poor at the same time.
 
2013-07-31 03:38:30 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: And I'm saying at the end of the day, the price of a Big Mac most certainly goes up regularly, and it is silly to think that McDonalds is averse to passing on cost increases to their customers. How do I know?

Because they do it nearly EVERY YEAR for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.


http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/drivethru_menus/mcdonalds_drive_thru .h tml

2002 Price2013 PricePrice Difference% increase$2.39$4.19+ $1.8075%
In contrast, The Consumer Price Index between 2002 and 2013 only changed 28%.
 
2013-07-31 03:39:42 PM  

RanDomino: Jormungandr
The real question here is "What is a human worth apart from what they can presently contribute?"
cdn.pocket-lint.com
This bad boy, or its descendents are the future of fast food. The death knell for the McJob is tolling. So this whole argument is really moot.
The military is automating too, if burger flipping and gruntwork are out what then? That is the question! Answering the phones goes overseas or hell, automation is hitting there (call the Microsoft activation line: you never talk to a real person) too. What do you do with the grunts when all the grunt work is gone?

Here's a thought: Maybe the grunts aren't useless inherently (I have a hard time with the idea of someone being inherently worthless) education could be the problem, education isn't designed to foster creative thought and educating children in things that require a developed prefrontal cortex doesn't work. Could the answer just be educating adults to tutor children, that might take a couple generations to make significant change, but something must happen because the changes are coming and they will come quickly and they will not be something that can be ignored. Of course doing nothing will lead to legions of desperate people with no prospects. Desperate people do desperate things and none of us want that, except those who want to watch the world burn.

The issue is that the machines are owned by a relatively few capitalists, and so they recieve all the savings from increased efficiency. Automation should not be bad- it just should be owned by the workers or society. If a worker gets replaced by a machine, it should mean that that worker now has more free time, not that they get evicted and the owner gets an extra $30,000 a year to spend on a marginally bigger yacht.


Why should the worker get paid for a job he no longer does? Why does the employer have an obligation to give someone 30k for doing nothing?
 
2013-07-31 03:40:59 PM  

Southern100: BojanglesPaladin: And I'm saying at the end of the day, the price of a Big Mac most certainly goes up regularly, and it is silly to think that McDonalds is averse to passing on cost increases to their customers. How do I know?

Because they do it nearly EVERY YEAR for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.

http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/drivethru_menus/mcdonalds_drive_thru .h tml


i.imgur.com

In contrast, The Consumer Price Index between 2002 and 2013 only changed 28%.

Sorry, that looked soooo much better in Preview than it did when it actually posted.. Converted to JPG for ease of reading.
 
2013-07-31 03:56:48 PM  

Maus III: SCUBA_Archer: I know plenty of folks with $100k+ in college debt who are fighting to keep their barista job at Starbucks.

You know their names, right? Or is this an apocryphal story your telling us?



I know one in real life. Her name is Cass. She has $98,000 in student loan debt. She has a degree in Archaeology.

She works at a shiatty craft store selling custom rubber stamps to people for minimum wage.

I have absolutely no sympathy for her, I'm just saying it's not apocryphal.

/ Thanks for the word
// Apocryphal
 
2013-07-31 04:01:39 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: HeartBurnKid: Congratulations. You were lucky enough to acquire a skill that is rare and/or in demand. Not everybody is.

It's unfortunate that you are unable to see why that is not luck.


It's unfortunate that you are unable to see why it is.
 
2013-07-31 04:21:49 PM  
Are Big Macs a fungible commodity?  Or is it possible that the increase in price will lead to less burgers being sold and a net zero change in profits for McDonalds?  Maybe we should go all in and charge $100 million per Big Mac.  Think of what the worker's wages could be then!
 
2013-07-31 04:46:48 PM  

Southern100: Southern100: BojanglesPaladin: And I'm saying at the end of the day, the price of a Big Mac most certainly goes up regularly, and it is silly to think that McDonalds is averse to passing on cost increases to their customers. How do I know?

Because they do it nearly EVERY YEAR for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.

http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/drivethru_menus/mcdonalds_drive_thru .h tml

[i.imgur.com image 412x103]

In contrast, The Consumer Price Index between 2002 and 2013 only changed 28%.

Sorry, that looked soooo much better in Preview than it did when it actually posted.. Converted to JPG for ease of reading.


Thank you. That illustrates the point even better than my list of prices over 25 years. I am not disputing that many companies are averse to increasing an optimal retail price, but it is downright silly to say that McDonald's wouldn't pass their cost increases on the customer as a price increase in the face of the concrete fact that they do so routinely.

HeartBurnKid: Congratulations. You were lucky enough to acquire a skill that is rare and/or in demand. Not everybody is...

 It's unfortunate that you are unable to see why it is.

And it is truly tragic that you seem to think that gaining training or education or skills or expertise that makes you more valuable than a fry cook is some sort of random occurrence that "just happens to you". I see this more and more with applicants who seem to be expecting someone else to just present them with opportunity, and when none do, just blame "the system".

/Begin old man giving unsolicited advice

The single most important lesson I learned is that life doesn't just hand you lemons OR cherries. You have to go pick your fruit off the tree, and if you don't like the fruit on the tree where you are, you better start walking, because there are no buses to take you there. Sure there is happenstance both good and bad, but luck really *IS* what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

The second most important lesson I learned was that if you value yourself too low, the world will not adjust it.

And lastly, failure is a temporary circumstance.

I've worked at McDonald's, I've worked retail and retail management. I've waited tables and bartended. I've been a house painter and a janitor. These are all good, honest work, and there is no shame in good honest work. But these are NOT lifetime jobs, and anyone trying to make them so is doing a disservice to themselves and others.

/End old man giving unsolicited advice.
 
2013-07-31 05:32:31 PM  
In other news...

McDonald's has job that pays 8.75 MILLION!!!
 
2013-07-31 05:38:26 PM  

rman: In other news...

McDonald's has job that pays 8.75 MILLION!!!


That's what happens when you convince someone to hypersize their fries.

"Fred, get the big potato!"
www.potatopro.com
 
2013-07-31 05:39:04 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: The single most important lesson I learned is that life doesn't just hand you lemons...


I've always hated the saying 'if life gives you lemons, make lemonade'. I mean, to make lemonade, you don't just need lemons, you need sugar, water, ice, a pitcher, a spoon to stir with, a bunch of little cups to pour it into, and a stand with a sign on it saying 'Lemonade 25 cents'. Life don't hand you none of that! And if I could get all that on my own, I would be able to get the lemons, too- they're not that expensive.

/combustible lemons
//I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
 
2013-07-31 06:54:01 PM  

GUTSU: RanDomino: Jormungandr
The real question here is "What is a human worth apart from what they can presently contribute?"
cdn.pocket-lint.com
This bad boy, or its descendents are the future of fast food. The death knell for the McJob is tolling. So this whole argument is really moot.
The military is automating too, if burger flipping and gruntwork are out what then? That is the question! Answering the phones goes overseas or hell, automation is hitting there (call the Microsoft activation line: you never talk to a real person) too. What do you do with the grunts when all the grunt work is gone?

Here's a thought: Maybe the grunts aren't useless inherently (I have a hard time with the idea of someone being inherently worthless) education could be the problem, education isn't designed to foster creative thought and educating children in things that require a developed prefrontal cortex doesn't work. Could the answer just be educating adults to tutor children, that might take a couple generations to make significant change, but something must happen because the changes are coming and they will come quickly and they will not be something that can be ignored. Of course doing nothing will lead to legions of desperate people with no prospects. Desperate people do desperate things and none of us want that, except those who want to watch the world burn.

The issue is that the machines are owned by a relatively few capitalists, and so they recieve all the savings from increased efficiency. Automation should not be bad- it just should be owned by the workers or society. If a worker gets replaced by a machine, it should mean that that worker now has more free time, not that they get evicted and the owner gets an extra $30,000 a year to spend on a marginally bigger yacht.

Why should the worker get paid for a job he no longer does? Why does the employer have an obligation to give someone 30k for doing nothing?


Yeah, I thought about doing that job, and now I'm doing nothing too! Where's MY 30K? I've felt the same way about farmers paid for NOT growing crops. I'm not growing 100 acres of sugar cane this summer, and next year I'm not gonna' grow 105 acres.
 
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