If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   U.S. to declassify NSA and FISA documents to prove how much tinfoil Edward Snowden had on his head   (reuters.com) divider line 61
    More: Interesting, FISA, tin foils, NSA, United States, computer surveillance, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, documents  
•       •       •

5170 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2013 at 1:58 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



61 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-30 02:00:11 PM
Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil
 
2013-07-30 02:01:55 PM
Here are the cover pages, shown side by side, to the declassified NSA/FISA documents:

allamericanheadshots.com
 
2013-07-30 02:02:07 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


You know, that rings disturbingly true. I guess the point of any believable "conspiracy theory" is that it is in fact believable and you could see it being possible. In this case i think it's both of those things.
 
2013-07-30 02:02:09 PM
I'm supposed to trust the guy who lies under oath?
 
2013-07-30 02:02:19 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil


I like yours better, I was going to say something like "They will be pointless to read with everything blacked out"
 
2013-07-30 02:02:54 PM
As a Microsoft employee, I just want to say, about frackin' time. Don't make Microsoft look bad for the NSA's PR mishaps./Not involved in online services//Still, we don't give away your info.///My opinions are my own and I do not represent Microsoft in any official capacity.
 
2013-07-30 02:03:07 PM

Vangor: Here are the cover pages, shown side by side, to the declassified NSA/FISA documents:

[allamericanheadshots.com image 850x400]


this
 
2013-07-30 02:03:15 PM
So It Has Come to This
 
2013-07-30 02:05:12 PM

Bloody Templar: As a Microsoft employee, I just want to say, about frackin' time. Don't make Microsoft look bad for the NSA's PR mishaps./Not involved in online services//Still, we don't give away your info.///My opinions are my own and I do not represent Microsoft in any official capacity.


Of course Microsoft doesn't give away personal info.  They just sell it to anybody willing to meet their price for all that delicious customer metadata and targeted advertising.  That shiat's worth money.
 
2013-07-30 02:05:37 PM

Bloody Templar: As a Microsoft employee, I just want to say, about frackin' time. Don't make Microsoft look bad for the NSA's PR mishaps./Not involved in online services//Still, we don't give away your info.///My opinions are my own and I do not represent Microsoft in any official capacity.



Crap.  That's what I get for editing in Raw HTML mode and forgetting to use paragraph tags.

How it should have looked:

As a Microsoft employee, I just want to say, about frackin' time. Don't make Microsoft look bad for the NSA's PR mishaps.

/Not involved in online services
//Still, we don't give away your info.
///My opinions are my own and I do not represent Microsoft in any official capacity.
 
2013-07-30 02:05:44 PM
theweirdlywiredworld.com
 
2013-07-30 02:06:27 PM
THE NSA IS FULL OF TRAITORS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY BY RELEASING THIS INFORMATION.

or something.
 
2013-07-30 02:06:38 PM
Given that Snowden's objection was to what was being done without our knowledge/consent, making these documents public is exactly part of his goal. Even better if they declassify (some of) the FISA proceedings going forward.
 
2013-07-30 02:08:08 PM
If Snowden wasn't correct, the documents wouldn't have been classified in the first place. There's something intrinsically worrisome about a system of government which habitually, neurotically classifies more than it allows the citizens to know. Given the axiom that knowledge is power, our government appears quite totalitarian in its goals of amassing knowledge and therefore, power. And this is supposed to be a government which serves us? All... ALL of its decisions seem bent toward the final goal of purchasing total power.
 
2013-07-30 02:08:10 PM
I thought the documents and concepts he revealed were already declassified, and had already been quietly disclosed by the NSA months before?
 
2013-07-30 02:09:43 PM
If it's OK to declassify these documents now, why were they every classified at all?  Better to make things open up front then have to clean up the mess later.  This govt (and I don't mean just the Obama Admin.) has gone nuts with the classification thing.
 
2013-07-30 02:11:50 PM
Yeah, subby. I'm sure they'll declassify everything, right?
 
2013-07-30 02:12:47 PM

HAMMERTOE: Given the axiom that knowledge is power, our government appears quite totalitarian in its goals of amassing knowledge and therefore, power.


Nothing proves this more than the release of previously classified documents.  Those totalitarians, crushing the masses, controlling the smallest facets of our life, and ruthlessly responding to public pressure by releasing classified information.
 
2013-07-30 02:14:59 PM
U.S. spy agencies plan to declassify (CERTAIN) documents about the National Security Agency surveillance programs revealed by former contractor Edward Snowden, and also (CERTAIN) material related to a secret intelligence court, a U.S. intelligence official said.
 
2013-07-30 02:17:41 PM

Galloping Galoshes: If it's OK to declassify these documents now, why were they every classified at all?  Better to make things open up front then have to clean up the mess later.  This govt (and I don't mean just the Obama Admin.) has gone nuts with the classification thing.


Because no one was ever terminated or re-assigned to the Botswana Embassy for classifying something that shouldn't have been.  But releasing information that should have been classified is more problematic.

It's not necessary to assume a malicious government to explain--A lot of this is simply organizational inertia and butt-covering.
 
2013-07-30 02:18:25 PM
It's amazing what the general public, and in this case the FARK public, don't know and assume about the IC. Everyone gets so bent about something they have no experience in. False Intelligence and Counter-intelligence is as much of the game and tactic, as knowledge and intelligence.  There are plenty of strategic reasons to classify a program, regardless of it's content.

But to say, "well if you declassify it now, why was it ever classified?" is just naive.  Extremely naive.

Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.
 
2013-07-30 02:18:27 PM

dudemanbro: U.S. spy agencies plan to declassify (CERTAIN) documents about the National Security Agency surveillance programs revealed by former contractor Edward Snowden, and also (CERTAIN) material related to a secret intelligence court, a U.S. intelligence official said.


I'm not sure why you consider this significant.  Were you really expecting a full document dump of the NSA archives?
 
2013-07-30 02:19:04 PM
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propag anda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans

And since its now legal to create propaganda for US citizens, expect whatever they publish to be 100%, USDA Grade AA bullshiat.
 
2013-07-30 02:20:19 PM
I don't think Subby read the same article I did.


MrSplifferton: I'm supposed to trust the guy who lies under oath?


Lies under oath and gets away with it.
 
GBB
2013-07-30 02:21:04 PM

Galloping Galoshes: If it's OK to declassify these documents now, why were they every classified at all?


They're declassifying them to make them worthless to Snowden.  If he has nothing to offer other countries for asylum, then it'll be easier to get him back to the US.

Of course, if the NSA is releasing bogus documents, then they still have the power to de-value whatever Snowden has.
 
2013-07-30 02:24:33 PM

Skleenar: I'm not sure why you consider this significant. Were you really expecting a full document dump of the NSA archives?


No, I wasn't expecting anything. And I really don't expect people in our government to quit spying on us or to relinquish any power voluntarily.
 
2013-07-30 02:31:51 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil


This.
 
2013-07-30 02:32:18 PM

rikkitikkitavi: It's amazing what the general public, and in this case the FARK public, don't know and assume about the IC. Everyone gets so bent about something they have no experience in. False Intelligence and Counter-intelligence is as much of the game and tactic, as knowledge and intelligence.  There are plenty of strategic reasons to classify a program, regardless of it's content.

But to say, "well if you declassify it now, why was it ever classified?" is just naive.  Extremely naive.

Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.


Snowden was a contractor, what oath did he make and break?
 
2013-07-30 02:33:37 PM
Today: We will declassify these documents
Next Week: what documents?
 
2013-07-30 02:34:59 PM

MrSplifferton: Snowden was a contractor,


This is probably the part of this whole saga that gives me the most pause.
 
2013-07-30 02:35:32 PM

Arumat: Bloody Templar: As a Microsoft employee, I just want to say, about frackin' time. Don't make Microsoft look bad for the NSA's PR mishaps./Not involved in online services//Still, we don't give away your info.///My opinions are my own and I do not represent Microsoft in any official capacity.

Of course Microsoft doesn't give away personal info.   They just sell it to anybody willing to meet their price for all that delicious customer metadata and targeted advertising.  That shiat's worth money.


Yes, yes they do.
/Go ahead, check my profile.
 
2013-07-30 02:36:58 PM
First, just a very partial list from "Cablegate" (excluding many other bombshells that caused a stir in smaller nations abroad):


* The United States pressured the European Union to accept GM-genetic modification, that is.

* The Yemeni president lied to his own people, claiming his military carried out air strikes on militants actually done by the United States. All part of giving the United States full rein in country against terrorists.

* The United States tried to get Spain to curb its probes of Gitmo torture and rendition.

* Egyptian torturers trained by the FBI-although allegedly to teach the human rights issues.

* State Dept memo: US-backed 2009 coup in Honduras was "illegal and unconstitutional."

* Cables on Tunisia appear to help spark revolt in that country. The country's ruling elite described as "The Family," with Mafia-like skimming throughout the economy. The country's first lady may have made massive profits off a private school.

* The United States knew all about massive corruption in Tunisia back in 2006 but went on supporting the government anyway, making it the pillar of its North Africa policy.

* Cables showed the UK promised in 2009 to protect US interests in the official Chilcot inquiry on the start of the Iraq war.

* Washington was misled by our own diplomats on Russia-Georgia showdown.

* Extremely important historical document finally released in full: Ambassador April Glaspie's cable from Iraq in 1990 on meeting with Saddam Hussein before Kuwait invasion.

* United Kingdom sidestepped a ban on housing cluster bombs. Officials concealed from Parliament how the United States is allowed to bring weapons on to British soil in defiance of treaty.

* New York Times: "From hundreds of diplomatic cables, Afghanistan emerges as a looking-glass land where bribery, extortion and embezzlement are the norm and the honest man is a distinct outlier."

* Afghan vice president left country with $52 million "in cash."

* Shocking levels of US spying at the United Nations (beyond what was commonly assumed) and intense use of diplomats abroad in intelligence-gathering roles.

* Potential environmental disaster kept secret by the United States when a large consignment of highly enriched uranium in Libya came close to cracking open and leaking radioactive material into the atmosphere.

* The United States used threats, spying and more to try to get its way at last year's crucial climate conference in Copenhagen.

* Details on Vatican hiding big sex abuse cases in Ireland.

* Hundreds of cables detail US use of diplomats as "sales" agents, more than previously thought, centering on jet rivalry of Boeing vs. Airbus. Hints of corruption and bribes.

* Millions in US military aid for fighting Pakistani insurgents went to other gov't uses (or stolen) instead.

* Israel wanted to bring Gaza to the "brink of collapse."

* The US secret services used Turkey as a base to transport terrorism suspects as part of its extraordinary rendition program.
 
2013-07-30 02:39:59 PM

neversubmit: First, just a very partial list from "Cablegate" (excluding many other bombshells that caused a stir in smaller nations abroad):


That's not really relevant in this thread.
 
2013-07-30 02:42:41 PM
picturescrazy


Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


And any person who believes otherwise is a fool.
 
2013-07-30 02:49:22 PM

Skleenar: Nothing proves this more than the release of previously classified documents. Those totalitarians, crushing the masses, controlling the smallest facets of our life, and ruthlessly responding to public pressure by releasing classified doctored information.


Like I said. If he was wrong, the documents wouldn't have been classified in the first place.
 
2013-07-30 02:50:24 PM

rikkitikkitavi: Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.


I think you are confusing "country" with "government". They are no longer one and the same.
 
2013-07-30 02:52:57 PM

MrSplifferton: rikkitikkitavi: It's amazing what the general public, and in this case the FARK public, don't know and assume about the IC. Everyone gets so bent about something they have no experience in. False Intelligence and Counter-intelligence is as much of the game and tactic, as knowledge and intelligence.  There are plenty of strategic reasons to classify a program, regardless of it's content.

But to say, "well if you declassify it now, why was it ever classified?" is just naive.  Extremely naive.

Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.

Snowden was a contractor, what oath did he make and break?


Obama (and Bush) took an oath to uphold the Constitution and follow the laws, etc.

Obama admits to using drones to kill Americans.  I don't care what anyone says, there isn't anything anywhere that can exempt you from the Constitution, and in this case Due Process.  He's a murderer and should be tried as one.  If Bush did it too, he should also.  I don't care who did it first, or who started it, just following orders or just using powers is no defense.  I wish people in this country understood that "Congress shall pass no law..." etc.

/I realize this isn't in response to what you said, I'm just using it to make my point.
 
2013-07-30 02:57:26 PM
Well-put, Freeballin.
 
2013-07-30 03:18:50 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


And even the ones that are real will be redacted and cherry-picked
 
2013-07-30 04:07:21 PM

Freeballin: MrSplifferton: rikkitikkitavi: It's amazing what the general public, and in this case the FARK public, don't know and assume about the IC. Everyone gets so bent about something they have no experience in. False Intelligence and Counter-intelligence is as much of the game and tactic, as knowledge and intelligence.  There are plenty of strategic reasons to classify a program, regardless of it's content.

But to say, "well if you declassify it now, why was it ever classified?" is just naive.  Extremely naive.

Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.

Snowden was a contractor, what oath did he make and break?

Obama (and Bush) took an oath to uphold the Constitution and follow the laws, etc.

Obama admits to using drones to kill Americans.  I don't care what anyone says, there isn't anything anywhere that can exempt you from the Constitution, and in this case Due Process.  He's a murderer and should be tried as one.  If Bush did it too, he should also.  I don't care who did it first, or who started it, just following orders or just using powers is no defense.  I wish people in this country understood that "Congress shall pass no law..." etc.

/I realize this isn't in response to what you said, I'm just using it to make my point.


While I largely agree with you, I'd like to point out that the UCMJ has a bone to pick with this point.  I certainly don't agree with labeling somebody an enemy combatant because "fark you, that's why".  How about using the drones to capture photographic evidence of wrongdoing before each strike, with a civilian panel appointed by the House and Senate intelligence committees (no way in hell should the executive or DOJ pick these people, conflict of interest) to review the evidence?  Maybe even give them some teeth to hold whoever makes the "kill/don't kill" decision accountable if the evidence is flawed, insufficient to support killing the target, or fabricated.
 
2013-07-30 04:27:39 PM
If we've learned anything by watching scumbags run modern corporations, it is that they use cutouts to avoid direct responsibility. I have zero doubt that these documents will contain NO information on what role Amdocs, and other Israeli oufits, are playing for the NSA/CIA/ETC. It's all carved out, no way to even know who has access to what. On the other hand, AIPAC must be creaming its jeans (is that mixing the meat and the milk?) over all the juicy blackmail fodder they are collecting on our leaders.

This started before 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpWc_suPWo

Fox flushed that report down the memory hole in record time. You know they didn't just go away.
 
2013-07-30 04:43:48 PM

Freeballin: MrSplifferton: rikkitikkitavi: It's amazing what the general public, and in this case the FARK public, don't know and assume about the IC. Everyone gets so bent about something they have no experience in. False Intelligence and Counter-intelligence is as much of the game and tactic, as knowledge and intelligence.  There are plenty of strategic reasons to classify a program, regardless of it's content.

But to say, "well if you declassify it now, why was it ever classified?" is just naive.  Extremely naive.

Oh, and none of this changes the fact that Snowden broke his oath to his country.

Snowden was a contractor, what oath did he make and break?

Obama (and Bush) took an oath to uphold the Constitution and follow the laws, etc.

Obama admits to using drones to kill Americans.  I don't care what anyone says, there isn't anything anywhere that can exempt you from the Constitution, and in this case Due Process.  He's a murderer and should be tried as one.  If Bush did it too, he should also.  I don't care who did it first, or who started it, just following orders or just using powers is no defense.  I wish people in this country understood that "Congress shall pass no law..." etc.

/I realize this isn't in response to what you said, I'm just using it to make my point.


I would like to point out that the oath of office includes the words, "against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
 
2013-07-30 05:26:16 PM
Which begs the question Why were the documents classified to begin with?  Part of the problem is too much secrecy for things that do not need to be secret.
 
2013-07-30 05:39:39 PM
This seems to be pointless.

For group one, no document that says anything other than:

"All problems in the world have been caused by us and if the American people would vote [X] the world would become a utopia"

Will be believed as "the full and honest document".

For the other, nothing other than:

"All the secrets are perfectly normal to protect the world from great evil and terrorism, it's not possible any corruption is involved"

Is possible.

Why even bother at this point -- maybe to grab a few fence-sitters?
 
2013-07-30 06:01:01 PM
They're declassifying them to make them worthless to Snowden.  If he has nothing to offer other countries for asylum, then it'll be easier to get him back to the US.

fitnessintuition.com

U.S. govt: "First we let Manning off the hook!"
U.S. citizens: "yea!"
"Then we declassify the documents Snowden has, thus taking away his bartering chips."
"Yea!"
"Then we have Snowden extradited."
"YEA!"
"And THEN we kill him!"
"Ye...wait what?"
"Sorry, meant imprison him indefinitely without trial for being a traitor to our country..."
"Oh ok...what were we talking about again?  Oh hey, look, a new episode of Game of Thrones is on...um, thanks for the pep rally, but this is more important right now...gotta go!"
 
2013-07-30 06:21:28 PM
A Shameful Day to Be a US Citizen

That the United States has to promise (to Russia!) that it will not torture a prisoner in its control

U.S.: We Promise Not to Torture, Kill Edward Snowden

America's top prosecutor has promised Russian officials that the U.S. would not torture Edward Snowden, nor would it seek the death penalty for the former National Security Agency contractor should he be handed over to U.S. custody.
 
2013-07-30 06:34:55 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil


agreed
 
2013-07-30 07:00:33 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil


Why surely only the tinfoil hatted would fail to trust the Feds after Obama's Director of National Intelligence was caught red handed lying under oath to Congress!

If you can't trust lying ass felons, who can you trust???
 
2013-07-30 07:18:35 PM

picturescrazy: Now that they've had time to make fake documents.


/tinfoil


Done in one.

U.S. to declassify redacted NSA and FISA documents

FTFY, Subby.
 
2013-07-30 07:54:42 PM
Get out the popcorn for Redaction Boogaloo.
 
Displayed 50 of 61 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report