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(USA Today)   NYC fast food workers demand their companies charge $4 for a cheeseburger   (usatoday.com) divider line 297
    More: Asinine, unfair labor practice, fast food  
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2977 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Jul 2013 at 12:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-30 04:28:51 AM
Let's accept the notion that everyone should have enough to live on. Why is it McDonald's and its shareholders responsibility to ensure that goal by paying wages that are higher than they're worth? Surely society can provide for its citizens without laying the burden on cheeseburger providers (and therefore their consumers) by mandating they pay inflated wages. By inflated wages I mean paying more than the labor is worth. We know that McD's would pay even less than 7.25/hr if it were legal. That necessarily means that employees would also sell their labor for less than the set min wage. Doesn't it follow that fast food labor is worth less than $7.25?

Labor is a commodity and its price is set the same as any other commidity. It's just like any other ingredient in a cheeseburger. Which makes more sense? To have the state set an artificially high price of beef, cheese, bread and labor to ensure that ranchers, dairy and wheat farmers and fast food workers earn a 'living wage' from consumers who pay the price of a cheeseburger OR have the government pay every citizen a minimum income and let the market determine the price of a cheeseburger?

I'm not saying that society shouldn't guarantee some sort of basic minimum income. I just don't think it's McDonald's responsibility.
 
2013-07-30 04:34:21 AM
Just on a side note here: I would not have a problem spend a bit more for the burger if it helps the economy as a whole. There are places like In-And-Out that run their business the right way and pay their employees a decent wage (for the type of labor involved). They don't charge that much more for their burgers and they are a hell of a lot better than McDonalds. That being said, when you think about it, you're buying a double cheeseburger from McDonalds for one dollar. Something had to give there. It won't be the rancher, they have the product McDonalds needs. It won't be McDonalds, they control the business and they want to make every cent they can. It won't be the consumer, that's the only way to keep lining the pockets of the brass. The only place that gives is employees, so they take advantage of it. What's my point? I lost track. Eat at businesses that aren't run by complete dicks I guess.
 
2013-07-30 04:40:51 AM

Great Janitor: Want a job paying $15/hour?  Apply for jobs paying $15/hour.  Getting hired at McDonald's, getting told "We're going to pay you $7.25/hour." and you say "Okay." does not allow you to biatch and moan that you're not making enough money.  You knew what the pay was before you accepted the job, suck it up.  Don't like it, apply for a new job.  Get the skills needed to get a better job or be willing to do some really shiatty jobs.  Taking a job that pays minimum wage and then going on strike demanding that your entry level pay is doubled is retarded.

As for the unionizing part, I've worked as part of a union and I've worked in places that weren't unionized.  There is not enough money in the world that would get me to unionize and put up with that bullshiat again.


That would be a really good idea...if $15/hr jobs were still a thing. Newsflash: a disturbing percentage of jobs in this country pay at or near minimum wage. Labor is a commodity just like FCOJ, and supply outstrips demand at the moment. We can either demand higher wages across the board, or we can accept our journey to a servant class as inevitable.
 
2013-07-30 04:57:10 AM

ThatDarkFellow: Cornelius Dribble: ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.

Why do you uncritically assume that low-level white-collar workers are inherently superior to blue-collar workers? Maybe the people without "skills and education" who make $15 an hour are just harder workers than people who went to college, padded their resumes, and decided that the world owes them a living.

If you feel you're underpaid, there's nothing stopping you from growing a pair and demanding a living wage as well, instead of complaining about the uppitiness of the lower classes.

Someone sounds like they work for McDonalds


Or they have dignity.
 
2013-07-30 05:01:34 AM

TopoGigo: Great Janitor: Want a job paying $15/hour?  Apply for jobs paying $15/hour.  Getting hired at McDonald's, getting told "We're going to pay you $7.25/hour." and you say "Okay." does not allow you to biatch and moan that you're not making enough money.  You knew what the pay was before you accepted the job, suck it up.  Don't like it, apply for a new job.  Get the skills needed to get a better job or be willing to do some really shiatty jobs.  Taking a job that pays minimum wage and then going on strike demanding that your entry level pay is doubled is retarded.

As for the unionizing part, I've worked as part of a union and I've worked in places that weren't unionized.  There is not enough money in the world that would get me to unionize and put up with that bullshiat again.

That would be a really good idea...if $15/hr jobs were still a thing. Newsflash: a disturbing percentage of jobs in this country pay at or near minimum wage. Labor is a commodity just like FCOJ, and supply outstrips demand at the moment. We can either demand higher wages across the board, or we can accept our journey to a servant class as inevitable.


I start a new job in a couple of weeks.  The pay is $17/hour plus performance bonuses.  No college or skill requirement needed and it's an office job, and that's the entry level position temp to perm.  I've seen jobs going for over $15/hour in my area with no college requirements.  $15/hour jobs are still a thing.  I don't know where you got this incredibly wrong idea that minimum wage jobs are the only things left because that's simply not true, especially when the median income in the United States is just over $44,000.
 
2013-07-30 05:03:25 AM

ThatDarkFellow: Cornelius Dribble: ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.

Why do you uncritically assume that low-level white-collar workers are inherently superior to blue-collar workers? Maybe the people without "skills and education" who make $15 an hour are just harder workers than people who went to college, padded their resumes, and decided that the world owes them a living.

If you feel you're underpaid, there's nothing stopping you from growing a pair and demanding a living wage as well, instead of complaining about the uppitiness of the lower classes.

Someone sounds like they work for McDonalds


Maybe you should consult an audiologist.
 
2013-07-30 05:17:27 AM

JonBuck: What's going to happen if labor costs get too high is that those workers at the cash registers will be mostly replaced by computer ordering kiosks and more machines in the back will assemble the food.


As long as the robots don't spit on my food, I'm okay with that.
 
2013-07-30 05:19:23 AM

JonBuck: What's going to happen if labor costs get too high is that those workers at the cash registers will be mostly replaced by computer ordering kiosks and more machines in the back will assemble the food.


I've always wondered whats stopped them from doing this en mass. I'm sure they know there is a tipping point even they can't cross.
 
2013-07-30 05:30:42 AM

ThatDarkFellow: I've always wondered whats stopped them from doing this en masse.



My guess is public sentiment, because it certainly isn't concern for the well-being of the workers.
 
2013-07-30 05:43:01 AM

untaken_name: Because the money to pay the workers has to come from somewhere, and that's going to be the customers. When prices rise higher than people want to pay, people will stop buying fast food and then all those fast-food workers will get $0/hr. Will that make their situation better? Also, raising the minimum wage has traditionally resulted in increased prices of basic goods and services, leading to minimum-wage workers being hardest-hit, as they must use the largest percentage of their pay of any class of worker for those basic goods and services. In other words, when your food budget is 5% of your total budget, a price increase of 20% is not terribly damaging. However, when your food budget is 20% of your total budget, it's a much bigger hit. This leads to minimum-wage workers actually being negatively impacted by rises in the minimum wage. It isn't the CEOs who will be harmed by price increases. They can withstand them easily. It will be the very workers who pushed for increasing the minimum wage in the first place that will be harmed the most by it. That's one of the little ironies of life.


Here's an idea: require McDonalds spend less money on the glitz and glamor (and ideal locations) of their establishments in NYC. They probably pay a ton of money on real estate costs and NON-MCDONALDS contracted employees (say, to fix shiat when it breaks), so why can't some of the low-level guys get a break?
 
2013-07-30 05:46:27 AM
They are asking for something very minimal. $15 is not a lot, if you have no debt and live in a state with a low cost of living it is still just enough for you to slowly better your life over a long time. That's perfectly reasonable - even a teenager should get that. Nobody should be exempt. They are asking for that in New York, where it is probably not really enough to live on in any reasonable fashion, but maybe enough to pay for rent and food.

If Australia can do a $15 minimum wage, the US can do a $15 minimum wage. It's not asking much, it's basic human decency.
 
2013-07-30 05:50:56 AM

Great Janitor: I don't know where you got this incredibly wrong idea that minimum wage jobs are the only things left because that's simply not true, especially when the median income in the United States is just over $44,000.


First, that's an old number. Second, that's median HOUSEHOLD income; you do know what a household is, don't you? Third, if these household incomes are based on people who have jobs, how would that have to do with the open positions "left" on the market?

Anyway, YMMV for everyone in every region, but a job that earns you twice as much in another part of the country will almost always start out at, or near, minimum wage where I reside.
 
2013-07-30 05:52:44 AM
If they get a pay raise, who's going to sell me drugs?
 
2013-07-30 05:55:45 AM

adamatari: They are asking for something very minimal. $15 is not a lot, if you have no debt and live in a state with a low cost of living it is still just enough for you to slowly better your life over a long time. That's perfectly reasonable - even a teenager should get that. Nobody should be exempt. They are asking for that in New York, where it is probably not really enough to live on in any reasonable fashion, but maybe enough to pay for rent and food.

If Australia can do a $15 minimum wage, the US can do a $15 minimum wage. It's not asking much, it's basic human decency.


I actually think the government needs to do quite a bit of regulation of spending or artificial price inflation, as well as do some "trust busting" or monopoly destruction.

We have too many markets that are being controlled, effectively, by very few players, and the invisible hand is contributing to greater inflation and keeping wages stagnant (and in some ways reducing them for blue collar jobs, relative to 10, 20, or 30 years ago).
 
2013-07-30 05:56:07 AM

puffy999: Great Janitor: I don't know where you got this incredibly wrong idea that minimum wage jobs are the only things left because that's simply not true, especially when the median income in the United States is just over $44,000.

First, that's an old number. Second, that's median HOUSEHOLD income; you do know what a household is, don't you? Third, if these household incomes are based on people who have jobs, how would that have to do with the open positions "left" on the market?

Anyway, YMMV for everyone in every region, but a job that earns you twice as much in another part of the country will almost always start out at, or near, minimum wage where I reside.


I don't think anyone who uses that initial argument knows what household income means.
 
2013-07-30 06:04:44 AM

ThatDarkFellow: JonBuck: What's going to happen if labor costs get too high is that those workers at the cash registers will be mostly replaced by computer ordering kiosks and more machines in the back will assemble the food.

I've always wondered whats stopped them from doing this en mass. I'm sure they know there is a tipping point even they can't cross.


Oh god dammit. en masse.
 
2013-07-30 06:25:37 AM

Warchild: JonBuck: What's going to happen if labor costs get too high is that those workers at the cash registers will be mostly replaced by computer ordering kiosks and more machines in the back will assemble the food.

As long as the robots don't spit on my food, I'm okay with that.


McDonals is already testing mechanized stores.

Make no mistake, jobs are disappearing in favor of machines. Of course the companies that fired the workers and built the machines claim there are plenty of jobs out there . But there aren't and it's not going to get better.
 
2013-07-30 06:46:19 AM
I always love these arguments about CEO's taking a pay cut to raise the pay of employees. McDonald's CEO makes about 8.75 million. If you took 8 million of that and divided it equally among all 440,000 employee's, each would receive a whopping $18 extra per year, or about a .01 cent per hour raise. Yep, that's sure to fix the problem alright.
 
2013-07-30 06:48:16 AM

ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.


What is ridiculous is that companies pay people low wages to do crap jobs. In a reasonable, logical world, people should be offered more to do jobs nobody wants to do to compensate them for the trouble. This is how broken and topsy-turvy our world is.
 
2013-07-30 06:54:05 AM

Preserved_Killick: Let's accept the notion that everyone should have enough to live on. Why is it McDonald's and its shareholders responsibility to ensure that goal by paying wages that are higher than they're worth? Surely society can provide for its citizens without laying the burden on cheeseburger providers (and therefore their consumers) by mandating they pay inflated wages. By inflated wages I mean paying more than the labor is worth. We know that McD's would pay even less than 7.25/hr if it were legal. That necessarily means that employees would also sell their labor for less than the set min wage. Doesn't it follow that fast food labor is worth less than $7.25?

Labor is a commodity and its price is set the same as any other commidity. It's just like any other ingredient in a cheeseburger. Which makes more sense? To have the state set an artificially high price of beef, cheese, bread and labor to ensure that ranchers, dairy and wheat farmers and fast food workers earn a 'living wage' from consumers who pay the price of a cheeseburger OR have the government pay every citizen a minimum income and let the market determine the price of a cheeseburger?

I'm not saying that society shouldn't guarantee some sort of basic minimum income. I just don't think it's McDonald's responsibility.


Someone has to pay either way, you either pay in taxes to cover the welfare of those who aren't earning enough from McDonald's or Wal-Mart or you pay more as a consumer. Also, the whole idea that consumers will be hurt if we raise the minimum wage is bullshiat. A lot of American's work in the service sector, including fast food/restaurants, and retail. Those people could pay more into the economy if they were paid more, which is ultimately a good thing. As they're consumers too after all.

Secondly. A company that treats its employees as expendable will experience high turn over, lower productivity, theft, and dissatisfied customers. All of which leads to a loss of money for the company. Its not that hard to understand.
 
2013-07-30 06:55:48 AM

LoneWolf343: ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.

What is ridiculous is that companies pay people low wages to do crap jobs. In a reasonable, logical world, people should be offered more to do jobs nobody wants to do to compensate them for the trouble. This is how broken and topsy-turvy our world is.


I don't think McDonalds would qualify under jobs nobody wants to do when compared to the really terrible, physically demanding jobs no one wants to do
 
2013-07-30 06:56:37 AM

Great Janitor: TopoGigo: Great Janitor: Want a job paying $15/hour?  Apply for jobs paying $15/hour.  Getting hired at McDonald's, getting told "We're going to pay you $7.25/hour." and you say "Okay." does not allow you to biatch and moan that you're not making enough money.  You knew what the pay was before you accepted the job, suck it up.  Don't like it, apply for a new job.  Get the skills needed to get a better job or be willing to do some really shiatty jobs.  Taking a job that pays minimum wage and then going on strike demanding that your entry level pay is doubled is retarded.

As for the unionizing part, I've worked as part of a union and I've worked in places that weren't unionized.  There is not enough money in the world that would get me to unionize and put up with that bullshiat again.

That would be a really good idea...if $15/hr jobs were still a thing. Newsflash: a disturbing percentage of jobs in this country pay at or near minimum wage. Labor is a commodity just like FCOJ, and supply outstrips demand at the moment. We can either demand higher wages across the board, or we can accept our journey to a servant class as inevitable.

I start a new job in a couple of weeks.  The pay is $17/hour plus performance bonuses.  No college or skill requirement needed and it's an office job, and that's the entry level position temp to perm.  I've seen jobs going for over $15/hour in my area with no college requirements.  $15/hour jobs are still a thing.  I don't know where you got this incredibly wrong idea that minimum wage jobs are the only things left because that's simply not true, especially when the median income in the United States is just over $44,000.


I have seen those sort of jobs too, they're often requiring two years experience. A lack of experience is just as much of a factor in keeping people from finding work as any other requirement if not more.
 
2013-07-30 07:05:49 AM

MBK: How about not paying their CEOs millions of dollars to...

What exactly DO CEOs do?

I mean for a company like McDonalds.  You are pretty much one of the most recognizable symbols in the world.  Your food is sold all over the place.  You introduce a new burger every year.

What the fark does a CEO do that requires millions of dollars?


He occupies a spot for the board, a board made up of the same rich families who make up the boards at every other company. It is about keeping the whole system locked down.
 
2013-07-30 07:11:25 AM

Cornelius Dribble: ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.

Why do you uncritically assume that low-level white-collar workers are inherently superior to blue-collar workers? Maybe the people without "skills and education" who make $15 an hour are just harder workers than people who went to college, padded their resumes, and decided that the world owes them a living.

If you feel you're underpaid, there's nothing stopping you from growing a pair and demanding a living wage as well, instead of complaining about the uppitiness of the lower classes.


You are worth what the market will pay you. White collar workers make more money because their skills are in greater demand than blue collar workers. This is obvious.

These workers willingly accepted jobs that pay what they do. They are, of course, within their rights to walk off the job to demand higher wages. Then the restaurants would then be forced to raise wages (and likely prices) or close down for lack of labor.
 
2013-07-30 07:12:16 AM

Apik0r0s: MBK: How about not paying their CEOs millions of dollars to...

What exactly DO CEOs do?

I mean for a company like McDonalds.  You are pretty much one of the most recognizable symbols in the world.  Your food is sold all over the place.  You introduce a new burger every year.

What the fark does a CEO do that requires millions of dollars?

He occupies a spot for the board, a board made up of the same rich families who make up the boards at every other company. It is about keeping the whole system locked down.


This is what farklibs actually believe.
 
2013-07-30 07:42:59 AM
You can pay workers a decent wage, or you can have the government give them welfare.

Choose one.
 
2013-07-30 07:44:01 AM

TuteTibiImperes: I just think the minimum wage is way too low, especially for jobs in high-cost-of-living areas.  So, let's raise the minimum wage,


Yes, lets just make it $40/hr.  Everything will remain the same price and we'll all be rich.

Places with high costs of living also have high prices, high rent and high taxes.  none of which has anything to do with the evil CEOs.
 
2013-07-30 08:00:14 AM

Aarontology: You can pay workers a decent wage, or you can have the government give them welfare.

Choose one.


We could also just cut welfare. If you guys are correct that govt subsidies and welfare somehow allow companies to underpay employees, cutting those subsidies would result in workers demanding more from employers.

How about instead of forcing companies to pay what we (government via voters) arbitrarily want them to, we cut the subsidies directly. Then the employees will demand higher wages and everything will work out, if your theory is correct.
 
2013-07-30 08:05:30 AM

ThatDarkFellow: I'm not saying the guys don't need a pay increase, but they definitely don't deserve more than people who have worked on backgrounds and skills after high school.


"Deserve" has nothing to do with what you make in America.  Less than zero.
 
2013-07-30 08:05:43 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Why is $15 ridiculous, especially in a major city with a high cost of life like NYC?  I do agree that more skilled professions should be paid even more.  Don't look at it as McDonalds employees asking to be overpaid, look at it as people finally starting to stand up to our current reality of record corporate profits and historically high wage inequality.  All non-executive employees should be demanding more pay.


They can stand up if they want.. Good on them.  And McDonalds and BK can decide to shiat-can all of their asses too.

That's how it should work.
 
2013-07-30 08:13:57 AM
BTW has anyone mentioned McDonald's paying $15/hr won't lead to $4 hamburgers? It'll lead to hamburgers that cost maybe 15 cents more a piece, and less than that at really busy McDonald's.


MugzyBrown: And McDonalds and BK can decide to shiat-can all of their asses too.


If even just a majority from one location decide to walk off the job for a day and get canned? That location is farked, seriously farked. They won't have enough people to do the work required until new people are hired and trained. Plus there's the PR angle.
 
2013-07-30 08:15:08 AM

untaken_name: This leads to minimum-wage workers actually being negatively impacted by rises in the minimum wage.


Too bad that's not actually true. Sixty plus years of data and not a shred of it supports that.
 
2013-07-30 08:21:00 AM

WhyteRaven74: If even just a majority from one location decide to walk off the job for a day and get canned? That location is farked, seriously farked. They won't have enough people to do the work required until new people are hired and trained. Plus there's the PR angle


I said they can decide to, not they should.

Hell it would be a great opportunity to get rid of some problematic employees.
 
2013-07-30 08:24:05 AM
Five Guys on 34th street already charges $5.59 for a "little" cheeseburger.
 
2013-07-30 08:24:10 AM

ThatDarkFellow: 7.25 is too low, yes. 15 is ridiculous, though. There are people who work jobs that require an actual skill or education that can't even find work for 15/hr right now.


Or, perhaps that skilled labor is not getting paid ENOUGH.
Someone just posted the 1968 Min. wage extrapolated out to current would be $20+
Burger Flippers at $15 is still less than that.

AND... I've paid $4 for a very good burger before.
Yumm.....
 
2013-07-30 08:24:34 AM

MugzyBrown: WhyteRaven74: If even just a majority from one location decide to walk off the job for a day and get canned? That location is farked, seriously farked. They won't have enough people to do the work required until new people are hired and trained. Plus there's the PR angle

I said they can decide to, not they should.

Hell it would be a great opportunity to get rid of some problematic employees.


Yeah, I know Mugzy, damn poor people! Why don't they shut up and work to death?
 
2013-07-30 08:32:26 AM

BHShaman: AND... I've paid $4 for a very good burger before.
Yumm.....


I've paid $4 for a McDonald's burger in Manhattan.  You'd have to pay more for an actually decent burger in NYC.
 
2013-07-30 08:32:28 AM

Needlessly Complicated: What the hell happened to wages?


A great circle of suck happened.
- Real Estate and Banks colluded to create a bubble and then bet against the bubble to make mad billions.
- When the bubble burst, so did credit and financing across all sectors.
- Businesses then used that happening as a reason to 'cut cost'
- Cutting cost meant firing employees and stacking up work on the remaining.
- Lots of unemployed meant fierce competition for all employment opportunities.
- Based on the laws of supply and demand, the huge supply of potential employees allowed companies to lower their starting wages to near slave wages.

Someone took those jobs you saw listed, or they were offshored and the ads were just an excuse to claim their are no viable employees in the States.Guess who wins and who loses...
 
2013-07-30 08:35:04 AM

untaken_name: TuteTibiImperes: Why is $15 ridiculous, especially in a major city with a high cost of life like NYC?

Because the money to pay the workers has to come from somewhere, and that's going to be the customers. When prices rise higher than people want to pay, people will stop buying fast food and then all those fast-food workers will get $0/hr. Will that make their situation better? Also, raising the minimum wage has traditionally resulted in increased prices of basic goods and services, leading to minimum-wage workers being hardest-hit, as they must use the largest percentage of their pay of any class of worker for those basic goods and services. In other words, when your food budget is 5% of your total budget, a price increase of 20% is not terribly damaging. However, when your food budget is 20% of your total budget, it's a much bigger hit. This leads to minimum-wage workers actually being negatively impacted by rises in the minimum wage. It isn't the CEOs who will be harmed by price increases. They can withstand them easily. It will be the very workers who pushed for increasing the minimum wage in the first place that will be harmed the most by it. That's one of the little ironies of life.


You are way to knowledgeable to be posting in this thread.
 
2013-07-30 08:41:05 AM

bbfreak: Yeah, I know Mugzy, damn poor people! Why don't they shut up and work to death?


You haven't worked if you haven't encountered several leach employees that companies are dying to get rid of but can't for one reason or another.

Usually fear of lawsuits.
 
2013-07-30 08:42:22 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Aarontology: You can pay workers a decent wage, or you can have the government give them welfare.

Choose one.

We could also just cut welfare. If you guys are correct that govt subsidies and welfare somehow allow companies to underpay employees, cutting those subsidies would result in workers demanding more from employers.

How about instead of forcing companies to pay what we (government via voters) arbitrarily want them to, we cut the subsidies directly. Then the employees will demand higher wages and everything will work out, if your theory is correct.


Workers are now demanding higher wages as it is, that's what these stories are about. These subsidies come from people like you and me. It's our tax money that is used as the subsidy for fast food joints and businesses like Wal-Mart, and yet they're opposed to the idea. Eliminating welfare altogether (aside from that being a near political impossibility) wouldn't change the fact that businesses still want to generate some of their profits through paying people crap wages and insufficient benefits that don't allow them to become self sufficient.

And if you pay people more, it means they don't qualify for welfare. That means reduced government spending in that regard helping making sure that only the truly needy are able to take advantage of them. Whither it on the vine instead of trying to dig up an impossible root, so to speak.

And by paying people more, it reduces the justification the government has for taxing people in order to support the various welfare programs, which would in turn lead to reduced government spending, reduced size of government, and a much wider tax base which would be better for everyone involved.

Now, maybe I'm alone in this, but I would much rather voluntarily pay a little more for a good and service a company provides, especially if it means the workers there have more money to keep themselves afloat, better benefits in order to stay healthy and increase their quality of life, and more money to participate in the consumer economy by spending it one other businesses' goods and services, than have the government involuntarily tax me and use my money as an indirect subsidy for their own profits by using the welfare system as a substitute.

And let's not forget that the fast food joints are the beneficiaries of tens of billions of dollars in agricultural welfare subsidies to begin with, so many of their production costs aren't even really subject to market fluctuations as much as they would if the agricultural industry was based upon the market instead of government policy designed to bring about food price stability through anti-market means.

So yes. Good wages and benefits or corporate and personal welfare. That's really what it boils down to. Eliminating Medicaid, food stamps, Section 8 and the like just isn't going to happen, much like eliminating Social Security or Medicare isn't going to happen.
 
2013-07-30 08:59:28 AM
Shrug. Australia's min wage is $16/hr, and they've got tons of fast food down there at roughly the same price as Murrica
 
2013-07-30 09:00:47 AM

untaken_name: doglover: So, legislate CEO salary caps slaved to the lowest paying position in the company. Ta-da.

How does that fix the problem of rising employment costs driving rises in the price of basic goods and services?


Because the only cost rising is CEO salarys.

When the lowest man on the totem pole gets more money, he spends it, velocity increases, we all make more money.

As it is, the top are sucking the economy dry to make even more money and blaming us for not working for free.
 
2013-07-30 09:02:32 AM
Good luck with your strike at a minimal skill job while we have an unemployment rate as high as it is.   I am sure they are all irreplaceable without a large amount of training in button pushing needed for their replacements.

I just want to tell ya'll good luck. We're all counting on you.
 
2013-07-30 09:06:32 AM

doglover: When the lowest man on the totem pole gets more money, he spends it, velocity increases, we all make more money.


So if we raise minimum wage to $50/hr, we'll all be rich!
 
2013-07-30 09:15:11 AM

adamatari: They are asking for something very minimal. $15 is not a lot, if you have no debt and live in a state with a low cost of living it is still just enough for you to slowly better your life over a long time. That's perfectly reasonable - even a teenager should get that. Nobody should be exempt. They are asking for that in New York, where it is probably not really enough to live on in any reasonable fashion, but maybe enough to pay for rent and food.

If Australia can do a $15 minimum wage, the US can do a $15 minimum wage. It's not asking much, it's basic human decency.


Australian Mcdonald's doesn't pay minimum wage, currently the rate is $19 for adults at lowest level.
 
2013-07-30 09:15:17 AM
ThatDarkFellow: I don't think pay should be scaled to the location of where you live. Otherwise I'd be on a beach condo in Malibu. I'm not saying the guys don't need a pay increase, but they definitely don't deserve more than people who have worked on backgrounds and skills after high school.

So what I'm guessing is that you DO support paying relocation costs so that these people can move somewhere more affordable?
 
2013-07-30 09:15:44 AM

MugzyBrown: doglover: When the lowest man on the totem pole gets more money, he spends it, velocity increases, we all make more money.

So if we raise minimum wage to $50/hr, we'll all be rich!


Not quite, but if we treated workers like people we'd be human.
 
2013-07-30 09:15:48 AM

MugzyBrown: bbfreak: Yeah, I know Mugzy, damn poor people! Why don't they shut up and work to death?

You haven't worked if you haven't encountered several leach employees that companies are dying to get rid of but can't for one reason or another.

Usually fear of lawsuits.


Sure I have, last job I had in fact I had a co-worker who showed up sometimes and didn't other times. Yet he wasn't fired simply because he was hard to replace. So everyone had to work harder to make up for him not being there, and eventually people like me left because we were tired of dealing with that bullshiat. Anyway, I don't doubt that there are leaches but its hard to get rid of them not so much due to lawsuits in my opinion because if good workers aren't valued all you're going to end up with are the leaches.  Then again you were the one suggest in your last post, the ones wanting change are the problematic workers.
 
2013-07-30 09:16:34 AM

ThatDarkFellow: doglover: ThatDarkFellow: I don't think pay should be scaled to the location of where you live.

Good luck with that.

Exactly. Move somewhere less expensive.


Because moving to a completely new city is even cheaper than traveling there on vacation. A fast food worker probably has enough in his roommate's mom's car ashtray to move out of town and take 5 of his best friends with him.
 
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