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(Hartford Courant)   Parents want over $600,000 because summer camp director stopped their low self-esteem daughter from having underage summer camp sex   (courant.com) divider line 247
    More: Stupid, CHLOE MILLER, self-esteem, Sue Lein, executive directors, Westport, underage, emotional well-being  
•       •       •

23177 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jul 2013 at 10:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



247 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-30 02:26:58 AM  

BuckTurgidson: Fano: I cannot comprehend that someone cannot understand the level of deceit that a kid is capable of

I endeavored to raise that point at trial but did THAT work out? Not so much.

How'd it work out for you, by the way?


Aquitted on ALL charges plus a lucrative countersuit that bought me 2 consecutive months of TF this year.
 
2013-07-30 02:32:56 AM  
 
2013-07-30 02:34:33 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: digitalrain: Adults shouldn't free the fark out over perfectly NORMAL emerging sexual urges in teenagers.

They should when they are responsible for the teenagers and laws make them liable for anything the teen does and anything that happens to the teen.


This, sorry teens, your parents, who are paying for everything you do, have no compelling interest in letting you fark like otters, because having been teenagers themselves, know that you will fark everything that moves, protection or no. They don't want to be responsible for pregnancy, STDs or 'told ya so' heartbreak.
 
2013-07-30 02:35:04 AM  
Running a camp is expensive -

Insurance out the arse (doing dangerous things with rich people's children?  Yeah.  $$$)

Have to pay for tons of food, transportation can be a huge expense, taking care of horses, equipment, etc. etc.

Hard to say without knowing the camp itself - the one I worked at had a fleet of two dozen fifteen passenger vans, a few shuttles, well over a hundred buildings to maintain, well over a hundred horses to feed and equip and take care of, equipment for archery, riflery, backpacking, hiking, rafting, fishing, mountain-biking, etc... its own waste and water systems....  pretty high quality food for hundreds of people, and a staff ratio (including administrative and support staff) of about 1-2.5 or so.  Base salary for counselors is about 300/week, with more for returning staff and unit directors and whatnot...

So, yeah, for a good camp - pricey.
 
2013-07-30 03:16:48 AM  

WeenerGord: jtown: Omahawg: are you ready for the summer?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x337]

Ah, the 70s.  When a girl could go from hardcore porn to a kids' movie and nobody batted an eye.

Bill Murray did hardcore porn?


Possibly, but I was thinking of Kristine DeBell.
 
2013-07-30 04:43:48 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

OH!  I'll be the victim!!
 
2013-07-30 04:47:35 AM  

sweatybronson: Running a camp is expensive -

Insurance out the arse (doing dangerous things with rich people's children?  Yeah.  $$$)

Have to pay for tons of food, transportation can be a huge expense, taking care of horses, equipment, etc. etc.

Hard to say without knowing the camp itself - the one I worked at had a fleet of two dozen fifteen passenger vans, a few shuttles, well over a hundred buildings to maintain, well over a hundred horses to feed and equip and take care of, equipment for archery, riflery, backpacking, hiking, rafting, fishing, mountain-biking, etc... its own waste and water systems....  pretty high quality food for hundreds of people, and a staff ratio (including administrative and support staff) of about 1-2.5 or so.  Base salary for counselors is about 300/week, with more for returning staff and unit directors and whatnot...

So, yeah, for a good camp - pricey.


That sounds like the Las Vegas hotel of camps.  Of course that would cost a shiat-ton of money to run!
 
2013-07-30 05:06:19 AM  
You can tell from almost any thread on any issue who fancies themselves a proper Capitalist


Frighteningly amusing.
 
2013-07-30 05:08:39 AM  

sweatybronson: Running a camp is expensive -

Insurance out the arse (doing dangerous things with rich people's children?  Yeah.  $$$)

Have to pay for tons of food, transportation can be a huge expense, taking care of horses, equipment, etc. etc.

Hard to say without knowing the camp itself - the one I worked at had a fleet of two dozen fifteen passenger vans, a few shuttles, well over a hundred buildings to maintain, well over a hundred horses to feed and equip and take care of, equipment for archery, riflery, backpacking, hiking, rafting, fishing, mountain-biking, etc... its own waste and water systems....  pretty high quality food for hundreds of people, and a staff ratio (including administrative and support staff) of about 1-2.5 or so.  Base salary for counselors is about 300/week, with more for returning staff and unit directors and whatnot...

So, yeah, for a good camp - pricey.


Meh - I went to a camp for 9 years and worked there one year.  There were close to 200 campers each session and only once did anyone have anything serious happen to them and it didn't have anything to do with camp activities.  The staff ratio was probably closer to 4:1 but considering most of those were just older teens acting as counselors or junior counselors I wouldn't put much stock in it.  (and the work crew and kitchen crew didn't have any responsibility for the campers so it was probably more like 5:1 with most of those only being a couple years older than the kids they were in charge of).

We shot guns, bows and arrows, rode horses and donkeys, played baseball swam in a pond with water mocassins, water skied, and didn't have fancy vans to take us to the lake where we went boating.  They were old stake trucks  Just jump in the back and hang on.

How did we ever survive?  And what you're neglecting is there are a lot of kids.  Like I said upthread the one I used to go to now charges about $1250 a week (if you sign your kid up for 4 weeks).  If they have 200 kids (it looks like they might take more now) that's revenue of $250,000 a week.

But it's expensive, right?  Yeah, I'm sure they probably pay their "work crew" more than $100 a week these days and those fancy vans must cost more than the stake trucks but this girl's "tuition" was $12,000....well according to the article anyway.  Looking at their website it looks like "tuition" only goes up to $9250 if you go for 6 weeks.  2 weeks is $3250 or $1625 per week.

They still probably pay their work crew and counselors less than minimum wage, buy food in bulk and pay the owners/administrators 6 digit salaries if not more.

It sounds like the camp you worked at was much bigger than mine.  2 dozen vans, plus shuttle buses and over a hundred buildings?  That's enough to put 360 people on the road just in vans.  I think ours had at most a half dozen stake trucks and that's probably a generous estimate, probably no more than 30 buildings if I count the golf shed and stable.

What do you figure their revenue per week is?  $600,000?  More?  But you say camp only lasts 6 weeks or so during the summer.  Yeah, right.  Like they don't rent out that property for anything else the whole rest of the year.  They're making money hand over fist.
 
2013-07-30 05:57:18 AM  
Where exactly did she "kiss" him?
 
2013-07-30 06:33:42 AM  
Overnight summer camp? They saved that boys life.
That wasn't a kiss. She was going to eat him!
 
2013-07-30 07:04:01 AM  
FTFA:
Arnold also said Lein shared confidential information about the girl, telling other campers she suffers from anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, and low self-esteem.

How would Lein know?

If Lein would have reason to know, and it's true, then welcome to getting your ass kicked.
 
2013-07-30 07:07:05 AM  
I went to a LARPing summer camp that was somehow about 60/40 male/female. We were pretty much unsupervised when not engaged in camp programming (which were awesome things like capture the flag with foam swords). The rule was "No OVA" which stood for oral/vaginal/anal but at that point who is really paying attention? No camp babies to the best of my knowledge and I'm still in touch with a lot of people from there. Nor were there any major disasters or lawsuits. We all turned out okay.
 
2013-07-30 07:15:09 AM  

i.r.id10t: BTW, I'm getting a kick ...... and she's got a good brain and she uses it.


No she doesn't.   She had her legs in the air the whole time.
 
2013-07-30 07:22:23 AM  

A Terrible Human: HillbillyBubba: I went to camp there! I got the Outdoorsman Award because I used to be an outdoorsy badass type. Now I'm in indoorsy allergic to everything that has pollen type.

Awesome! Did you go to Robert C. Webb and if so how long ago? I felt like a badass when I got a junior hunting and fishing license. The last year I went it was co-ed but they made damn sure the boys and girls couldn't be alone together.


Yep. I was also a counselor there for two summers when I was in college.
 
2013-07-30 07:29:01 AM  

doglover: The lawsuit seeks a refund of camp tuition for both girls (over $12,000)

$6,000 for a summer camp? That's about six times more than you'd think it would cost for a week. Do they have caviar Wednesdays or hire active military units to fly in and pay for the Jet A.


It doesn't say anywhere that its for a week. Day camps (non spend the night, I can't afford real camp..) generally run 1500 or so a for the summer. So I could believe 6,000 for a spend the night camp. But yes if its for a single week? Holy hell.
 
2013-07-30 07:44:21 AM  
Good you don't get to expel someone for kissing in 2013 (unless you're some sort of fundie camp maybe). The director should have called the parents explained the situation, recommended expulsion and said they'd prorate a refund.
 
2013-07-30 07:54:05 AM  

MindStalker: doglover: The lawsuit seeks a refund of camp tuition for both girls (over $12,000)

$6,000 for a summer camp? That's about six times more than you'd think it would cost for a week. Do they have caviar Wednesdays or hire active military units to fly in and pay for the Jet A.

It doesn't say anywhere that its for a week. Day camps (non spend the night, I can't afford real camp..) generally run 1500 or so a for the summer. So I could believe 6,000 for a spend the night camp. But yes if its for a single week? Holy hell.


From their website 4 weeks is $6450, 6 weeks is $9250, 2 weeks $3250.


What that tells me is not to have kids because camp is farking expensive.
 
2013-07-30 07:58:23 AM  
Here's the complaint.  I don't see a single request for $75,000 or $600,000 or whatever, so that seems makey-uppy and half the thread can get their sandy panties out of their collective vadge about the recovery.

The thing does, however, make hilarious reading (the pseudonyms help):

22. On or about July 11, 2013, at "court time," Dick nervously kissed
Plaintiff, JANE, behind the arts and crafts building.
23. This kiss was a beautiful, innocent moment between Dick and
Plaintiff, JANE.
24. The male counselors of Defendant, CAMP EMERSON and/or "ABC
CORPORATION 1-5" learned of the kiss and appropriately high-fived
and/or congratulated and/or cheered Dick.
25. When Defendant, SUE LEIN and/or "MARY MOE 1-5" learned of
this innocent kiss, she carelessly and/or recklessly and/or negligently
and/or intentionally yelled and screamed at Dick and Plaintiff, JANE, in
front of other campers and/or counselors, falsely accused them of
sexually provocative behavior including the removal of each other's
clothing, causing Plaintiff, JANE, inter alia, severe emotional distress
and/or mental anguish and/or depression and/or extreme anxiety
and/or humiliation and/or guilt and/or embarrassment.

/poorly pleaded complaint is poorly pleaded
 
2013-07-30 08:06:07 AM  

Lady Indica: Several people made a point of asking what happened to the boy involved. I'd be very interested to know that too. Was he hauled out in front of the camp and called all manner of names too? Not that he should have been mind you, but I'm betting there was a double standard here.


Or maybe he was expelled, but his parents are not suing. No lawsuit, no story.

Considering all the other stuff the girl's parents are suing for, it's a safe that if a double standard had been applied they would have sued for that too.
 
2013-07-30 08:20:05 AM  

gfid: but this girl's "tuition" was $12,000....well according to the article anyway. Looking at their website it looks like "tuition" only goes up to $9250 if you go for 6 weeks. 2 weeks is $3250 or $1625 per week.


Article states 12,000 for the two siblings. $6000 a piece.
 
2013-07-30 08:20:24 AM  

ArkAngel: The fat camp I'm cooking for charges $6,400 for three weeks


They need a cook at fat camp?  They need someone to rinse and chop the lettuce and carrots, maybe.
 
2013-07-30 08:26:26 AM  
The old, "one time at band camp" is nothing compared to "every time at church/Bible/Christian camp".

If you want to maintain your child's chastity and virtue never ever send him/her to a church camp.
 
2013-07-30 08:28:56 AM  

Teiritzamna: Here's the complaint.  I don't see a single request for $75,000 or $600,000 or whatever, so that seems makey-uppy and half the thread can get their sandy panties out of their collective vadge about the recovery.

The thing does, however, make hilarious reading (the pseudonyms help):

22. On or about July 11, 2013, at "court time," Dick nervously kissed
Plaintiff, JANE, behind the arts and crafts building.
23. This kiss was a beautiful, innocent moment between Dick and
Plaintiff, JANE.
24. The male counselors of Defendant, CAMP EMERSON and/or "ABC
CORPORATION 1-5" learned of the kiss and appropriately high-fived
and/or congratulated and/or cheered Dick.
25. When Defendant, SUE LEIN and/or "MARY MOE 1-5" learned of
this innocent kiss, she carelessly and/or recklessly and/or negligently
and/or intentionally yelled and screamed at Dick and Plaintiff, JANE, in
front of other campers and/or counselors, falsely accused them of
sexually provocative behavior including the removal of each other's
clothing, causing Plaintiff, JANE, inter alia, severe emotional distress
and/or mental anguish and/or depression and/or extreme anxiety
and/or humiliation and/or guilt and/or embarrassment.

/poorly pleaded complaint is poorly pleaded


OK, I just read the complaint. If what is alleged in it is true, then the lawsuit is very justified.

No, it doesn't say anything about $600k or $75k, but that's only because you posted a copy in which the amounts for the individual counts have been left blank, as have the signatures. There is no reason to believe that the amount of the lawsuit is not as stated in TFA.
 
2013-07-30 08:32:13 AM  

TigerzDad: The old, "one time at band camp" is nothing compared to "every time at church/Bible/Christian camp".

If you want to maintain your child's chastity and virtue never ever send him/her to a church camp.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-30 08:36:37 AM  

Carth: What that tells me is not to have kids because camp is farking expensive.


Smartest thing I've read on Fark.the internet all year


MindStalker: Article states 12,000 for the two siblings. $6000 a piece.


Dammit, now you expect me to read and comprehend the article?  Shiat.   Still a lot of money.  Maybe the parents should spend some time with their kids.  $6000 would pay for round trip plane tickets and lodging for a family of 4 to DisneyWorld or any place else where their cousins live.
 
2013-07-30 08:39:05 AM  
it just doesn't matter
 
2013-07-30 08:40:32 AM  

jtown: Bill Murray did hardcore porn?

Possibly, but I was thinking of Kristine DeBell.


Neither, with a straight face.
 
2013-07-30 09:21:46 AM  

inclemency: You can tell from almost any thread on any issue who fancies themselves a proper Capitalist


Frighteningly amusing.


Nyessssss, Nigel, I say, wot wot.


[CHECKS STOCK TICKER]
 
2013-07-30 09:33:00 AM  
Went to camp once....half the kids came down with food poisoning....I remember having to provide a stool sample to a doctor and when I was 'getting it' and putting 'it' into a jar my brother busted into the bathroom making me drop 'it' on the floor....what a douche....
 
m00
2013-07-30 09:49:53 AM  
What ever happened to "bring enough to share"? :)
 
2013-07-30 09:55:56 AM  

Richard Freckle: Yeah I agree on the 1k. Sending a pair of kids away for a week at 12k is some pretty uninspired parenting.  A lot of cool education and/or fun could be had for 12k.


You assume that the weeks before and the weeks after camp, the parents aren't spending any money enriching the lives of their children? Or is this the end of their $12k annual kid activity budget?

Sure some (many?) are just pawning their kids off for a week, but to assume that's the norm smacks of jealousy of the rich.
 
2013-07-30 10:02:38 AM  
In alternate universe...

Underage girl gets pregnant at summer camp. Parents sue for $2,000,000.
 
2013-07-30 10:46:42 AM  

waterrockets: Richard Freckle: Yeah I agree on the 1k. Sending a pair of kids away for a week at 12k is some pretty uninspired parenting.  A lot of cool education and/or fun could be had for 12k.

You assume that the weeks before and the weeks after camp, the parents aren't spending any money enriching the lives of their children? Or is this the end of their $12k annual kid activity budget?

Sure some (many?) are just pawning their kids off for a week, but to assume that's the norm smacks of jealousy of the rich.


The 12k camp is the entire summer. I'd argue there are more enriching things a 13 year old could be doing than being at summer camp. Most would cost less than $12,000
 
2013-07-30 11:05:54 AM  

Carth: waterrockets: Richard Freckle: Yeah I agree on the 1k. Sending a pair of kids away for a week at 12k is some pretty uninspired parenting.  A lot of cool education and/or fun could be had for 12k.

You assume that the weeks before and the weeks after camp, the parents aren't spending any money enriching the lives of their children? Or is this the end of their $12k annual kid activity budget?

Sure some (many?) are just pawning their kids off for a week, but to assume that's the norm smacks of jealousy of the rich.

The 12k camp is the entire summer. I'd argue there are more enriching things a 13 year old could be doing than being at summer camp. Most would cost less than $12,000


Well, it's a 4-week camp:  http://www.campemerson.com/prospective_parents/dates_fees (based on the over $12k number). I'd agree that is a bit long, unless you're hoping your kid will get some out there.

There are some really expensive camps out there though, and they're pretty badass.
 
2013-07-30 11:13:00 AM  

waterrockets: Carth: waterrockets: Richard Freckle: Yeah I agree on the 1k. Sending a pair of kids away for a week at 12k is some pretty uninspired parenting.  A lot of cool education and/or fun could be had for 12k.

You assume that the weeks before and the weeks after camp, the parents aren't spending any money enriching the lives of their children? Or is this the end of their $12k annual kid activity budget?

Sure some (many?) are just pawning their kids off for a week, but to assume that's the norm smacks of jealousy of the rich.

The 12k camp is the entire summer. I'd argue there are more enriching things a 13 year old could be doing than being at summer camp. Most would cost less than $12,000

Well, it's a 4-week camp:  http://www.campemerson.com/prospective_parents/dates_fees (based on the over $12k number). I'd agree that is a bit long, unless you're hoping your kid will get some out there.

There are some really expensive camps out there though, and they're pretty badass.


I forgot the article was talking about 2 kids. I was adding the 9k for 6 weeks then with 3k for 2 week to get the 12k for the summer number.
 
2013-07-30 11:25:28 AM  

waterrockets: There are some really expensive camps out there though, and they're pretty badass.


If it costs that much it's not a camp, even if it has trees.
 
2013-07-30 11:26:51 AM  
Emerson alum here. But it was in the 70's. Back then, the counselors would have had to stop farking each other long enough to notice two kids making out in the corner.

The NYPost article has some additional details as well, including the fact that the father is also an attorney:

"And the campers and counselors aren't squeaky clean. According to the lawsuit, campers urinated on each other, called the nutritionist fat and were forced to change in front of other campers. The suit also claims that counselors drank alcohol and did drugs and that the kitchen staff slept and smoked cigarettes in the same bunks as the campers."

Lets break this down:
Urinating on each other - Not uncommon to pee in the lake where everyone was swimming
Call nutritionist fat - was she?
Change in front of other campers - its a bunk - big open room with beds. If you didn't change in front of everyone else, you eventually became the stinky kid and got thrown in the showers.
Counselors drank and did drugs - well some things haven't changed since the 70's
Kitchen staff slept/smoked in same bunks with campers - I can see the concern. How many fires are caused each year by people falling asleep with lit cigarettes?
 
2013-07-30 11:45:44 AM  
Did summer camp once in the early 80s (I was about 12). Our cabin monitor (or whatever they called them) played hockey for MSU. Rainy days were spent in the cabin, cowering behind pillows and blankets while he practiced his slap shot with a tennis ball and we all thought it was fun! Got caught trying to peek in the girl's showers once by a female counselor and after she got done laughing at us for being a bunch of little pervs, she flashed us. Ric Romero reports that camps are different because parents are different. Today, she'd be a registered sex offender and he'd be charged with assault or some such. Back then? Meh, you saw some tits and survived tennis ball hockey.

/Parents only sent me to camp once but sent me on 3 Outward Bound trips.
//Desert, Everglades and BWCA in N. Minnesota/S. Canada
 
2013-07-30 11:49:42 AM  

ArkAngel: The fat camp I'm cooking for charges $6,400 for three weeks


Why? Fire you and let the problem fix itself.
 
2013-07-30 01:10:14 PM  

gfid: this girl's "tuition" was $12,000


The 'tuition' was 12k for the girl and for her sister...

So 6k per person...   Other sites say it was a 4-week camp, so it is rather pricey...

Also, lawsuit withdrawn

Sounds like this girl had lots of psychological issues - whatever happened at the camp, whoever turned this into a national story is an arse.  (lawyer?  parents?  Lawyer parents?)

It'd be interesting to hear someone else's side of the story, besides just what a lawyer says based on what a teenager with lots of psychological issues said when she got caught and had to explain things to her mom...
 
2013-07-30 01:12:37 PM  

sweatybronson: gfid: this girl's "tuition" was $12,000

The 'tuition' was 12k for the girl and for her sister...

So 6k per person...   Other sites say it was a 4-week camp, so it is rather pricey...

Also, lawsuit withdrawn

Sounds like this girl had lots of psychological issues - whatever happened at the camp, whoever turned this into a national story is an arse.  (lawyer?  parents?  Lawyer parents?)

It'd be interesting to hear someone else's side of the story, besides just what a lawyer says based on what a teenager with lots of psychological issues said when she got caught and had to explain things to her mom...


Sounds like the parent were pissed about not getting a refund and wanted to ruin the camps reputation by getting its name out there and calling the director a slut shamer.
 
2013-07-30 01:35:08 PM  
TuteTibiImperes:

  If I were on the jury I'd be willing to award a pro-rated amount of the camp fee based on the time she was there, but that would be it.

Well that's because you are reasonable and sensible.  A bit much to expect out of most people, or so it would seem.
 
2013-07-30 02:06:47 PM  
Just read about this in the local paper...she had supposedly removed her bra as well.
 
2013-07-30 03:22:39 PM  

HillbillyBubba: A Terrible Human: HillbillyBubba: I went to camp there! I got the Outdoorsman Award because I used to be an outdoorsy badass type. Now I'm in indoorsy allergic to everything that has pollen type.

Awesome! Did you go to Robert C. Webb and if so how long ago? I felt like a badass when I got a junior hunting and fishing license. The last year I went it was co-ed but they made damn sure the boys and girls couldn't be alone together.

Yep. I was also a counselor there for two summers when I was in college.


Awesome. :3
 
2013-07-30 08:10:49 PM  

Somacandra: gonzoduke: Your snowflake is a slut

Oh good, I was hoping the Fark Misogyny Squad wouldn't sit this one out.

and have a seat over there for good measure.


I love sluts. Whoreay for sluts.
 
2013-07-30 08:23:33 PM  

Rand's lacy underwear: ArkAngel: The fat camp I'm cooking for charges $6,400 for three weeks

Why? Fire you and let the problem fix itself.


A bunch of fat kids skewer and BBQ some counselors.

I'm ok with that.
 
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