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449 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Jul 2013 at 5:06 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:    more»

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Despite a 43-61 record, the Brewers have drawn relatively well this season, bringing in an average of more than 31,000 fans per game. Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Although it is close to the roughly \$3 million the team won't have to pay Braun, Schlesinger said that wasn't the intention.

That should be the intention.

Damn. Wish I were in Milwaukee in August ...

So, like, one beer?

Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Which makes perfect sense if you assume a \$10 voucher will function the same as \$10 cash.  If it worked that way, they would just hand everyone a \$10 bill when they walked through the turnstile.  Let's start to think about the reasons why they're not doing that, shall we?  You think maybe a voucher, like a coupon, might induce people to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy?

tricycleracer: So, like, one beer?

Basically. And then when you're in line you get a hot dog, and a cola for the kids. Next thing you know you've given away \$10 per person and made \$20 per person in concession sales.

It's better than nothing for the average fan but I'm sure they've calculated how much they should expect to gain.

Super Chronic: Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Which makes perfect sense if you assume a \$10 voucher will function the same as \$10 cash.  If it worked that way, they would just hand everyone a \$10 bill when they walked through the turnstile.  Let's start to think about the reasons why they're not doing that, shall we?  You think maybe a voucher, like a coupon, might induce people to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy?

Just because a beer sells for \$10 does not means that it costs \$10.  If they are all used using this theory, it will probably cost them 500k.

Nice move. A better one would be to find a new face of the franchise.

tricycleracer: So, like, one beer?

Beers are \$7 or \$7.50 at Miller Park...can't remember from a few weeks ago, too many before the game.

Games in Milwaukee are always fun, even if you're not a Brewers fan.  It's something in the atmosphere.

Let the non-Brewers fan butt hurt flow...

someonelse: Nice move. A better one would be to find a new face of the franchise.

Luuuuuuuuu!

WhiskeySticks: Beers are \$7 or \$7.50 at Miller Park

Domestic drafts are \$8 at the Trop.  Cheapest bleacher seats on a weekend are usually \$18-21.  And Stu wonders why he can't fill the stadium.

JohnnyRebel88: Super Chronic: Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Which makes perfect sense if you assume a \$10 voucher will function the same as \$10 cash.  If it worked that way, they would just hand everyone a \$10 bill when they walked through the turnstile.  Let's start to think about the reasons why they're not doing that, shall we?  You think maybe a voucher, like a coupon, might induce people to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy?

Just because a beer sells for \$10 does not means that it costs \$10.  If they are all used using this theory, it will probably cost them 500k.

Which is part of my point.  The other part is that it might turn them a net profit if someone is induced to buy a \$70 jersey for \$60, if that person otherwise would not have bought the jersey at all.  Or it might turn them a net profit if a season ticket holder is induced to show up to a dog-days snoozefest and buy \$50 of food for \$40, when he otherwise might have stayed home.

someonelse: Nice move. A better one would be to find a new face of the franchise.

Normally the super wealthy people that own sports franchises are insufferable, but I really do appreciate Mark Attanasio.  He seems genuinely interested in having the Brewers do well.

Sure, it's obviously so he can make more money, but it benefits us as fans as well.  He could very easily try to squeeze blood from a stone, too, and piss us all off in the process.

As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Super Chronic: JohnnyRebel88: Blah blah blah

Or, they could have not done this at all and made you pay full price.

It's better than nothing.

I would, and will, still go to Brewers games without this deal, and without Braun, the same way I did when they lost over 100 games and the same way I did when they were playing at the dump that was County Stadium.  If you're a fan, you go, and it's nice for the team to make the gesture.  Let the statistics be whatever they are;  don't care.  It's still a nice thing to do, considering.

Pfighting Polish: Super Chronic: JohnnyRebel88: Blah blah blah

Or, they could have not done this at all and made you pay full price.

It's better than nothing.

I would, and will, still go to Brewers games without this deal, and without Braun, the same way I did when they lost over 100 games and the same way I did when they were playing at the dump that was County Stadium.  If you're a fan, you go, and it's nice for the team to make the gesture.  Let the statistics be whatever they are;  don't care.  It's still a nice thing to do, considering.

Sure, if you like the coupon and want to get some stuff, I say go for it.  Coupons are good, discounts are good.  All I'm trying to say is that it takes quite a bit of credulity for this reporter to claim that this could somehow cost the team as much as \$3.6 million.  It won't under any circumstances.

WhiskeySticks: Games in Milwaukee are always fun, even if you're not a Brewers fan. It's something in the atmosphere.

Yep, agreed.  When I lived in Chicago, I always enjoyed going up there to catch a random game.  And this was when they weren't playing well, so you could get great tickets easily.  Since I had no rooting interest, it was just a fun way to spend an afternoon.

CmndrFish: As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Your posts come up in green for a reason.

For everyone pointing and laughing now, just wait until it's the face of your team's franchise.  And, given that a large part of the setup for this deal is amnesty for the distributors if they come forward and finger the players, the idea is that baseball wants to target them more and more, meaning more and more guys will get caught.

It's particularly funny to me when I hear Cardinals (McGwire) or Diamondbacks (Grimsley) fans jumping on Braun.  Seriously?  As if you haven't been floating in the exact same uncomfortable boat before?

My personal feeling:  Just allow them to use already.  The major complaint about using is that it's dangerous and we don't know the potential side effects because the drugs haven't been tested.  OK.  Then use ballplayers as the test cases.  Study the effects and perfect the drugs.  Eventually, maybe they can be used to help those with muscle disorders or, heaven forbid, become a part of everyone's day-to-day routine and help improve life.  What we've found is, even with the looming risk of suspensions and shame in the past few years, they're still going to do it, so just let them and make it go toward some good.

Super Chronic: Sure, if you like the coupon and want to get some stuff, I say go for it.  Coupons are good, discounts are good.  All I'm trying to say is that it takes quite a bit of credulity for this reporter to claim that this could somehow cost the team as much as \$3.6 million.  It won't under any circumstances.

Bigger numbers attract more eyes, and it is mathematically possible it could cost this much.  Of course, it's also mathematically possible I could have a threesome with Kate Upton and Emily Ratajkowski, so I get your point as yeah, they're both possible but rather unlikely.

The Brewers should add a 2nd statue of Selig.

Pfighting Polish: CmndrFish: As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Your posts come up in green for a reason.

For everyone pointing and laughing now, just wait until it's the face of your team's franchise.  And, given that a large part of the setup for this deal is amnesty for the distributors if they come forward and finger the players, the idea is that baseball wants to target them more and more, meaning more and more guys will get caught.

It's particularly funny to me when I hear Cardinals (McGwire) or Diamondbacks (Grimsley) fans jumping on Braun.  Seriously?  As if you haven't been floating in the exact same uncomfortable boat before?

My personal feeling:  Just allow them to use already.  The major complaint about using is that it's dangerous and we don't know the potential side effects because the drugs haven't been tested.  OK.  Then use ballplayers as the test cases.  Study the effects and perfect the drugs.  Eventually, maybe they can be used to help those with muscle disorders or, heaven forbid, become a part of everyone's day-to-day routine and help improve life.  What we've found is, even with the looming risk of suspensions and shame in the past few years, they're still going to do it, so just let them and make it go toward some good.

That's phenomenally stupid because it would force guys who want to stay clean to dope (and do their bodies great harm) to stay in MLB.

the biggest redneck here: That's phenomenally stupid because it would force guys who want to stay clean to dope (and do their bodies great harm) to stay in MLB.

As it is, you're subjecting yourself to a guy throwing a hard object at you at 100 MPH (or hitting it back at you at the same speed from 60 feet away) hundreds of times in a year.  You're already subjecting your body to great harm.

And you're sacrificing years of your life away from your family traveling/taking BP/training/film/etc. as it is, much of it likely in the minors, where it's not like life is all that great.  You're already hurting your health, mental and physical.

What if PEDs can actually take away some of that toll with study?  What if they actually can improve the game?  What if we find out the current batch of users has no ill side-effects later?  Then, maybe 10, 20, 30 or 50 years from now, it might turn out the guys who stayed clean were actually the silly ones.

Just saying -- with a change in perspective, maybe we can make it so PEDs aren't so evil, and maybe sports is the proving ground to do so.

What's the bribe going to be for Arod? Free car with purchase of ticket?

WhiskeySticks: tricycleracer: So, like, one beer?

Beers are \$7 or \$7.50 at Miller Park...can't remember from a few weeks ago, too many before the game.

Games in Milwaukee are always fun, even if you're not a Brewers fan.  It's something in the atmosphere.

Let the non-Brewers fan butt hurt flow...

Agreed. Saw Kershaw pitch there earlier this season. I was there for the Dodgers and to cross another stadium off my list. I came away with one of the best fan experiences ever, complete with observations on Teddy Higuera, a compelling argument for Bob Uecker as the most influential play-by-play guy for this generation (cross-media appeal), and their horror at a 30 minute plus trek out of the parking lot. Naturally, there was a bit of discussion about the MVP award until I pointed out that Braun wasn't even the best player on his own team. Cordial fans, great game, and a fine follow-up at the Safe House.

tricycleracer: WhiskeySticks: Beers are \$7 or \$7.50 at Miller Park

Domestic drafts are \$8 at the Trop.  Cheapest bleacher seats on a weekend are usually \$18-21.  And Stu wonders why he can't fill the stadium.

And the Tigers, who are leading their division and coming off a trip to the World Series, have \$60 packages which include four tickets, four hotdogs, four soft drinks, and four bags of chips.

CmndrFish: someonelse: Nice move. A better one would be to find a new face of the franchise.

Normally the super wealthy people that own sports franchises are insufferable, but I really do appreciate Mark Attanasio.  He seems genuinely interested in having the Brewers do well.

Sure, it's obviously so he can make more money, but it benefits us as fans as well.  He could very easily try to squeeze blood from a stone, too, and piss us all off in the process.

As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Attanasio can't afford to piss off the fans. The Brewers TV deal sucks and the only way the team makes money is if people come to the games. If they stop showing up the product on the field will be Marlins-quality.

tricycleracer: So, like, one beer?

Done in 2.

We'll be hitting the ballpark much more in August now.  Just bought 4 tickets on stubhub for \$7 a piece, and will get \$40 in food money when we walk in.

/win win
//for me anyway
///the team will probably lose.

I want a coupon to kick Bud Selig in the ass. I'd buy two tickets, so my right foot doesn't get jealous.

Pfighting Polish: CmndrFish: As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Your posts come up in green for a reason.

For everyone pointing and laughing now, just wait until it's the face of your team's franchise.  And, given that a large part of the setup for this deal is amnesty for the distributors if they come forward and finger the players, the idea is that baseball wants to target them more and more, meaning more and more guys will get caught.

It's particularly funny to me when I hear Cardinals (McGwire) or Diamondbacks (Grimsley) fans jumping on Braun.  Seriously?  As if you haven't been floating in the exact same uncomfortable boat before?

My personal feeling:  Just allow them to use already.  The major complaint about using is that it's dangerous and we don't know the potential side effects because the drugs haven't been tested.  OK.  Then use ballplayers as the test cases.  Study the effects and perfect the drugs.  Eventually, maybe they can be used to help those with muscle disorders or, heaven forbid, become a part of everyone's day-to-day routine and help improve life.  What we've found is, even with the looming risk of suspensions and shame in the past few years, they're still going to do it, so just let them and make it go toward some good.

You sound Mikwaukee-ish(?) and therefore fat

JohnnyRebel88: Super Chronic: Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Which makes perfect sense if you assume a \$10 voucher will function the same as \$10 cash.  If it worked that way, they would just hand everyone a \$10 bill when they walked through the turnstile.  Let's start to think about the reasons why they're not doing that, shall we?  You think maybe a voucher, like a coupon, might induce people to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy?

Just because a beer sells for \$10 does not means that it costs \$10.  If they are all used using this theory, it will probably cost them 500k.

It is quite complicated.

I would be that a large proportion are used on purchases that would have been made anyways, meaning it costs the full \$10.
Another large proportion will be used on additional purchases (I budget for 2 beers, but this allows me to get a third), costing them maybe half of the value.
A small proportion will incentivize larger purchases that could be a net gain.
Another small proportion will never get used which costs nothing.
Lastly, you have the ones that you will incentivize ticket sales. Which will probably be a net benefit (depending on ticket prices, parking and other costs for the stadium)

Then factor in the taxes reduced by the business expense. Plus you have to pay for the whole thing in terms of printing the coupons and managing the incentive.

Overall they will have good estimates of everything above and it will be well under the \$3.6 million cited, but I wouldn't be surprised if the financial cost was over a million. Before taking into account the non-financial benefits.

I say it does seem like a nice thing to do, though, and credit them for stepping up like this, even if they are doing it for their own interests. Many organizations still wouldn't.

dywed88: JohnnyRebel88: Super Chronic: Based on those calculations, the vouchers will cost the team more than \$3.6 million if they are all used.

Which makes perfect sense if you assume a \$10 voucher will function the same as \$10 cash.  If it worked that way, they would just hand everyone a \$10 bill when they walked through the turnstile.  Let's start to think about the reasons why they're not doing that, shall we?  You think maybe a voucher, like a coupon, might induce people to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy?

Just because a beer sells for \$10 does not means that it costs \$10.  If they are all used using this theory, it will probably cost them 500k.

It is quite complicated.

I would be that a large proportion are used on purchases that would have been made anyways, meaning it costs the full \$10.
Another large proportion will be used on additional purchases (I budget for 2 beers, but this allows me to get a third), costing them maybe half of the value.
A small proportion will incentivize larger purchases that could be a net gain.
Another small proportion will never get used which costs nothing.
Lastly, you have the ones that you will incentivize ticket sales. Which will probably be a net benefit (depending on ticket prices, parking and other costs for the stadium)

Then factor in the taxes reduced by the business expense. Plus you have to pay for the whole thing in terms of printing the coupons and managing the incentive.

Overall they will have good estimates of everything above and it will be well under the \$3.6 million cited, but I wouldn't be surprised if the financial cost was over a million. Before taking into account the non-financial benefits.

I say it does seem like a nice thing to do, though, and credit them for stepping up like this, even if they are doing it for their own interests. Many organizations still wouldn't.

I really don't feel like getting in a pissing match, but tap beer costs pennies on the dollar.  Also I know someone that was a print estimator for the Philly teams and this would cost next to nothing.  This is a good example of window dressing.or smoke and mirrors.

JohnnyRebel88: I really don't feel like getting in a pissing match, but tap beer costs pennies on the dollar.  Also I know someone that was a print estimator for the Philly teams and this would cost next to nothing.  This is a good example of window dressing.or smoke and mirrors.

Beer is only one of many products that will be purchased using the coupons. Some will have higher costs than others. In addition, the beer sales(and any other concessions) are almost certainly subcontracted out. There will be at least one other company getting their cut before the team.

I'm pumped. I already had tickets for Sunday's game, this is just a nice cherry on top.

The Brewers have perhaps the most fan-friendly front office in MLB.  They actually care a LOT about the fan experience.  I really like those people.

JohnnyRebel88: I really don't feel like getting in a pissing match, but tap beer costs pennies on the dollar. Also I know someone that was a print estimator for the Philly teams and this would cost next to nothing. This is a good example of window dressing.or smoke and mirrors.

I'll skip the poverty ass tap beer and just get mine in a bottle from the beer guy in the stands, thank you very much.

/Brewers just put up 5 in the 9th at Wrigley.

18-21 for bleachers? Jeez kinda steep. Let me guess when the Cards Cubs etc come to town those are premium games and the price goes up?

HaywoodJablonski: You sound Mikwaukee-ish(?) and therefore fat

You say that like it's a bad thing.

/Our beer, sausage and cheese is better than yours and we're more than happy to enjoy it
//Still only 170 lbs., though

bronyaur1: The Brewers have perhaps the most fan-friendly front office in MLB.  They actually care a LOT about the fan experience.  I really like those people.

The front office, yes. The ushers, though, can kinda be dicks.

Gosling: The front office, yes. The ushers, though, can kinda be dicks.

You need to sit near Usher Bill in Section 216.  Love the guy.

My season ticket rep, Jeff, is awesome, too.

Just remember, though, you can't necessarily judge the people's personalities by their actions.  Yes, the steps the front office is taking are being rightly lauded, as they have been numerous times under Attanasio.  However, I've had friends work in various areas of game entertainment (scoreboard production, music/sound/audio, etc.).  They have generally had a poor opinion of certain front-office folks who are still around and like to micromanage -- not Attanasio himself, but others in the front office with some degree of control who have basically been jerks.

Pfighting Polish: CmndrFish: As for Braun, I think the unfortunate truth is there are a LOT of players out there using that haven't been caught yet.

Does it make him less likeable?  Sure.
Am I glad I don't own any Braun memorabilia? Oh yeah (although that Escobar jersey I own still makes me chuckle).
Should we throw him under the bus forever and ever?  No.  He isn't that old of a player.  He still has plenty of time for a (clean) redemption.

Your posts come up in green for a reason.

For everyone pointing and laughing now, just wait until it's the face of your team's franchise.  And, given that a large part of the setup for this deal is amnesty for the distributors if they come forward and finger the players, the idea is that baseball wants to target them more and more, meaning more and more guys will get caught.

It's particularly funny to me when I hear Cardinals (McGwire) or Diamondbacks (Grimsley) fans jumping on Braun.  Seriously?  As if you haven't been floating in the exact same uncomfortable boat before?

My personal feeling:  Just allow them to use already.  The major complaint about using is that it's dangerous and we don't know the potential side effects because the drugs haven't been tested.  OK.  Then use ballplayers as the test cases.  Study the effects and perfect the drugs.  Eventually, maybe they can be used to help those with muscle disorders or, heaven forbid, become a part of everyone's day-to-day routine and help improve life.  What we've found is, even with the looming risk of suspensions and shame in the past few years, they're still going to do it, so just let them and make it go toward some good.

Not only that but Braun, ARod, Cruz, Peralta, etc arent in trouble for failing a drug test but because their doc was busted. That means they passed tests while doping. Which means the drug tests are easily beatable. Which means it's likely every player above a bench player is juicing, too

Pfighting Polish: HaywoodJablonski: You sound Mikwaukee-ish(?) and therefore fat

You say that like it's a bad thing.

/Our beer, sausage and cheese is better than yours and we're more than happy to enjoy it
//Still only 170 lbs., though

You (it's the best beer in all of Milwaukee; says so on the label and that can't be wrong):

Us:

WhiskeySticks: tricycleracer: So, like, one beer?

Beers are \$7 or \$7.50 at Miller Park...can't remember from a few weeks ago, too many before the game.

Games in Milwaukee are always fun, even if you're not a Brewers fan.  It's something in the atmosphere.

Let the non-Brewers fan butt hurt flow...

No butt hurt from this Sox fan. Great park you got up there. I might actually be closer to it than Comiskey now that I've moved further north.

meanmutton: Pfighting Polish: HaywoodJablonski: You sound Mikwaukee-ish(?) and therefore fat

You say that like it's a bad thing.

/Our beer, sausage and cheese is better than yours and we're more than happy to enjoy it
//Still only 170 lbs., though

You (it's the best beer in all of Milwaukee; says so on the label and that can't be wrong):

Us:

Come take the Lakefront Brewery tour sometime. Or the Sprecher. There's actually a nice, burgeoning microbrew community here, plus the big boy (MillerCoors) if you're into that.

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