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(Reason Magazine)   MSNBC Host Melissa Harris-Perry says, Detroit went under because there was ..... not enough Government   (reason.com) divider line 200
    More: Fail, MSNBC, Detroit, roots, British Parliament  
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1014 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jul 2013 at 1:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-29 11:39:08 AM
Let it be said that there are stupid people on both sides of the political aisle. There is no shortage of stupid people.

The city of Detroit went bankrupt because of terrible governing at the city level. It doesn't matter what party controls a city, Republican or Democrat, the only reason a city can't pay its bills is because it is poorly managed. For Detroit, piss-poor management of the city went on for DECADES.

I believe this person was trying to draw a comparison to the wholesale attempts by the GOP to dismantle government, and she might be onto something, but Detroit is a bad port to dock your argument to.
 
2013-07-29 11:56:02 AM
To be fair, I don't know enough about it to say whether or not it had enough or too much government.  What it did have though was a major sized city 95% dependent on the vehicle manufacturing industry.  That can't be a good business model.
 
2013-07-29 11:57:25 AM
yes. government is always bad. even if there's a depression or a war. only good can come from the individual and his gun.
 
2013-07-29 12:19:14 PM
 
2013-07-29 12:27:28 PM

bdub77: Let it be said that there are stupid people on both sides of the political aisle. There is no shortage of stupid people.

The city of Detroit went bankrupt because of terrible governing at the city level. It doesn't matter what party controls a city, Republican or Democrat, the only reason a city can't pay its bills is because it is poorly managed. For Detroit, piss-poor management of the city went on for DECADES.

I believe this person was trying to draw a comparison to the wholesale attempts by the GOP to dismantle government, and she might be onto something, but Detroit is a bad port to dock your argument to.


^^^
 
2013-07-29 12:27:47 PM
MSNBC has really gone off the deep end.  First they claimed Detroit was a libertarian city...then by claiming it failed because there wasn't enough government.

/facepalm
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-07-29 01:02:19 PM

bdub77: It doesn't matter what party controls a city, Republican or Democrat, the only reason a city can't pay its bills is because it is poorly managed.


For example: How well funded is their pension system? If they'd have eliminated that system for new employees when things started going downhill really obviously badly, would they now be faced with having to screw over retirees who were employed during the boom times?  So which situation is better or worse?  There's only so much money to go around, and now a bunch of lawyers are going to have to be paid...

Also, from what I reasd there's been more than a little corruption going on over there.
 
2013-07-29 01:02:58 PM
Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.
 
2013-07-29 01:18:38 PM
They should just pay city employees less so they would qualify for our rich and comprehensive welfare system.  I saw a guy in spinning wheels by a filet mignon once, it has to be true.
 
2013-07-29 01:18:42 PM

DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.


Has it been a week already?
 
2013-07-29 01:18:42 PM

slayer199: MSNBC has really gone off the deep end.  First they claimed Detroit was a libertarian city...then by claiming it failed because there wasn't enough government.

/facepalm


Detroit failed because of 'bad governing', not government itself.
 
2013-07-29 01:19:16 PM
who? where?
 
2013-07-29 01:19:35 PM
No, she didn't.
 
2013-07-29 01:20:40 PM

Alphax: DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.

Has it been a week already?


I don't know - seems to come up on Monday after her weekend show on MSNBC though. She must be doing something right to get the wingers all lathered up the way she does.
 
KoC
2013-07-29 01:20:56 PM
OLD NEWS IS SO EXCITING!
 
2013-07-29 01:21:55 PM
Detroit wen bankrupt in general because the nation had policies that made it easier and cheaper to export manufacturing jobs to other countries.
 
2013-07-29 01:22:16 PM
A lack of checks against graft and corruption is a failure of small government.
 
2013-07-29 01:23:12 PM
Didn't we have the same exact thread with the same exact headline a week ago?
 
2013-07-29 01:23:12 PM

HotWingConspiracy: A lack of checks against graft and corruption is a failure of small government.

 
2013-07-29 01:23:17 PM
Next week's headline:  [Asinine] Melissa Harris Perry thinks Detroit went under because (wait for it) there wasn't enough Government
 
2013-07-29 01:23:54 PM
You could argue that if Detroit provided decent services, more people would live there. But population and employment are a chicken-or-the-egg problem.
 
2013-07-29 01:26:28 PM
Wait, what? John Stossel's lying? And Reason is publishing this tripe? To the fainting couch!
 
2013-07-29 01:26:53 PM
race-baiting monologues... check

ridiculous, ignorant claims... check

stylish tampon earrings... check

yep, another proud moment for melissa harris perry and msnbc
 
2013-07-29 01:27:40 PM
Didn't bother to read the article, just came here to note that a liberal talk show host saying something stupid is not the equivalent of a conservative Congressman or governor saying something stupid. It's not the same thing as a liberal Congressman or governor saying something stupid either, but when was the last time were Al Franken or Deval Patrick in the news for saying something Bachmann- or Perry-level stupid?
 
2013-07-29 01:27:59 PM

HotWingConspiracy: A lack of checks against graft and corruption is a failure of small government.


Out of curiosity, do you say this to try and reinforce your beliefs or to reassure others who are wavering in their blind support of lefty politics?
 
2013-07-29 01:29:02 PM

DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.


She's still not going to sleep with you.
 
2013-07-29 01:29:10 PM
DNRTFA, but her statement is partly correct. America's problems are mainly due to ineffective regulation.
 
2013-07-29 01:32:20 PM

I_C_Weener: To be fair, I don't know enough about it to say whether or not it had enough or too much government.  What it did have though was a major sized city 95% dependent on the vehicle manufacturing industry.  That can't be a good business model.


The "company town" model wasn't really sustainable. Even when it was unintentional.
 
2013-07-29 01:32:24 PM

GoldSpider: DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.

She's still not going to sleep with you.


That's good, because my husband would be quite upset if she did, dumbass.
 
2013-07-29 01:32:38 PM

doctor wu: DNRTFA, but her statement is partly correct. America's problems are mainly due to ineffective regulation.


What does that have to do with Detroit's bankruptcy?
 
2013-07-29 01:33:32 PM

the_dude_abides: race-baiting monologues... check

ridiculous, ignorant claims... check

stylish tampon earrings... check

yep, another proud moment for melissa harris perry and msnbc


Don't forget the lisp. That's why I can't watch her show for more than a couple of minutes.
 
2013-07-29 01:34:17 PM

Notabunny: No, she didn't.


I'm assuming as much.  It's getting to the point that I don't even indulge the writers anymore.  Used to be I'd click the link, put the quote in Google, and get the real context.  Now, I see a (usually) right-leaning site blare out: "____________ says __________!!", and I just assume that they didn't actually say that, and get on with my day.  After that "You didn't build that" festival of intellectual dishonesty, I just assume they're lying, and call it a day.
 
2013-07-29 01:34:52 PM
Anytime someone uses the term "big government" or "smaller government," it's a safe bet they're just oversimplifying the situation and being intellectually lazy.
 
2013-07-29 01:36:20 PM

DarwiOdrade: GoldSpider: DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.

She's still not going to sleep with you.

That's good, because my husband would be quite upset if she did, dumbass.


Go on...
 
2013-07-29 01:36:26 PM

DarwiOdrade: GoldSpider: DarwiOdrade: Oh look, the weekly MHP hate thread.

She's still not going to sleep with you.

That's good, because my husband would be quite upset if she did, dumbass.


www.zapcomic.com
 
2013-07-29 01:36:35 PM
"But this lack of tax base is also exactly the thing that many Republicans would impose on us even when our cities have sufficient populations," Harris-Perry added. "Even when our communities have sufficient populations."

"This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown if your bathtub and it is not a pretty picture," she said.


Sounds to me like she's saying the GOP wants to cut taxes until ever city looks like Detroit.
 
2013-07-29 01:38:30 PM

Mrbogey: HotWingConspiracy: A lack of checks against graft and corruption is a failure of small government.

Out of curiosity, do you say this to try and reinforce your beliefs or to reassure others who are wavering in their blind support of lefty politics?


Neither. It's observable fact. There is a reason that small government fetishists go after regulators and corruption controls as a priority.
 
2013-07-29 01:38:31 PM

balthan: Sounds to me like she's saying the GOP wants to cut taxes until ever city looks like Detroit.


...therefore tax Detroit back into prosperity?
 
2013-07-29 01:39:01 PM

balthan: "But this lack of tax base is also exactly the thing that many Republicans would impose on us even when our cities have sufficient populations," Harris-Perry added. "Even when our communities have sufficient populations."

"This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown if your bathtub and it is not a pretty picture," she said.

Sounds to me like she's saying the GOP wants to cut taxes until ever city looks like Detroit.


Actually, their ideal world would look like the world of Shadowrun, minus the magical parts.  Corporations run everything, governments are corrupt, weak and easily brushed aside and private mercenary forces enforce the will of the Corporations and the people who own them.
 
2013-07-29 01:39:09 PM

balthan: "But this lack of tax base is also exactly the thing that many Republicans would impose on us even when our cities have sufficient populations," Harris-Perry added. "Even when our communities have sufficient populations."

"This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown if your bathtub and it is not a pretty picture," she said.

Sounds to me like she's saying the GOP wants to cut taxes until ever city looks like Detroit.


If that's accurate, I agree.
 
2013-07-29 01:40:52 PM

Elegy: The last time Detroit had a Republican mayor, Germany was the only country whose imported cars threatened the American auto industry, the moon was not a place where any human beings were expected to set foot any time soon, and African-Americans in the Deep South didn't eat in the same restaurants as whites.

But Melissa Harris-Perry is right, this is clearly all the republican's fault.

 
2013-07-29 01:42:53 PM
I believe somebody already told the story of Detroit's downfall...

www.debanddrew.com
...but it didn't blame blah people and the Cadillacs they bought with food stamps, so people didn't listen.
 
2013-07-29 01:43:01 PM
If he'd wanted to, Fartbama could have easily saved the city simply by taking one of his outrageously expensive vacations in Detroit, instead of foreign countries like Hawaii and Africa.
 
2013-07-29 01:43:11 PM

give me doughnuts: Don't forget the lisp. That's why I can't watch her show for more than a couple of minutes.


seriously though, the post-zimmerman analysis on msnbc was some of the dumbest, most cringe-worthy, and flat-out embarrassing news coverage i've ever seen in my life
 
2013-07-29 01:44:41 PM

I_C_Weener: What it did have though was a major sized city 95% dependent on the vehicle manufacturing industry.  That can't be a good business model.


It isn't. For years local Michiganders, both Democratic and Republican, have been trying to shift the city away towards a diversified corporate environment, but with little success from entrenched interests. The community put all its eggs in one basket and was unable to respond to shifting economic and demographic environments. One the heels of the great White Flight was the Black Middle Class flight as well. Some of the highly stratified suburbs do well on their local size (ex. Dearborn, Livonia) partially because they were able to make those gradual small scale adjustments.
 
2013-07-29 01:45:15 PM
I'm so sick of this "more government vs. less government" false choice bullshiat.  How about "corrupt, ineffective government vs. efficient, fair, honest government?"

The fact that people will scoff at my suggestion that there could ever be such a thing as "efficient, fair and honest government" demonstrates how cynical we have gotten.
 
2013-07-29 01:45:31 PM

GoldSpider: balthan: Sounds to me like she's saying the GOP wants to cut taxes until ever city looks like Detroit.

...therefore tax Detroit back into prosperity?


No, she implies, at least, that Detroit doesn't have the population for an adequate tax base.

However, "starving the beast" may eventually lead to similar results as Detroit if we keep trying to cut taxes without cutting services. It's not an unreasonable position.
 
2013-07-29 01:45:46 PM

Infernalist: Detroit failed because of 'bad governing', not government itself.


DarwiOdrade: HotWingConspiracy: A lack of checks against graft and corruption is a failure of government.



This! & This!
The sheer amount of corruption at all levels of government in Detroit was/is staggering.
From the Mayor to the City Council, Municipal Service Managers to the Police, and don't forget Judges. So many people on the take.
Mix that in with sheer ineptitude of majority of elected officials and Detroit and almost no chance to survive as is.
The nightly local news is one of scandal and violence, I try to stay informed but sometimes it is just too depressing.
Where is Robocop when you need him?
(btw I live there)
 
2013-07-29 01:47:01 PM

I_C_Weener: To be fair, I don't know enough about it to say whether or not it had enough or too much government.  What it did have though was a major sized city 95% dependent on the vehicle manufacturing industry.  That can't be a good business model.


A whole lot of THIS^

Detroit didn't fail because of bad government or racism or crime. It failed because the city was dependent on one single industry, and that industry failed. Once the labor force was no longer needed, poverty took over which led to crime which led to white flight which led to more poverty as all of the businesses moved out. That downward spiral has continued for decades.

When the big three auto makers were going strong, so was Detroit. It attracted a huge pool of poorly educated but hard working laborers, many of them black southerners, who worked in the factories and enjoyed a decent life. They took care of their houses, spent money at local businesses and basically supported a strong economy. Once those jobs went away, the economy went with it. Suddenly Detroit was populated with people that couldn't qualify for any other work so they were unemployed. Houses were unmaintained or abandoned, businesses were shuttered and Detroit was left with nothing. Corrupt politicians (see: Coleman Young) that promised great things and blamed "whitey" for the people's misfortunes were elected, making the problems even worse and accelerating flight from the city.

And so Detroit is what it is today, with little hope of recovery. There's nothing left to build on.
 
2013-07-29 01:47:57 PM

EyeballKid: I believe somebody already told the story of Detroit's downfall...

[www.debanddrew.com image 438x382]
...but it didn't blame blah people and the Cadillacs they bought with food stamps, so people didn't listen.


Because Michael Moore is also known for truthful, non-sensationalized reporting without clever edits to turn people's words around to fit the narrative he's building
 
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