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(Chicago Trib)   Chicago cops kill 95 year old man with bean bags. Set to see what they can do with Jarts later this week   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 67
    More: Sad, Chicago, bean bag round  
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2013-07-29 10:06:04 AM  
Again?

Now that is police brutality.
 
2013-07-29 10:06:30 AM  
They cornholed him?
 
2013-07-29 10:08:40 AM  
Maybe not the police officer's most prudent decision, but if you pull a knife on a cop that's kind of expected, even if you're elderly.
 
2013-07-29 10:10:43 AM  

PandaPorn: Maybe not the police officer's most prudent decision, but if you pull a knife on a cop that's kind of expected, even if you're elderly.


I'd be far more scared of my grandfather with dementia with a knife than my grandmother with a gun.
 
2013-07-29 10:11:21 AM  
Jesus, he's 95 no need to kill him. What the hell ?
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
He was comin' right at us.
 
2013-07-29 10:13:56 AM  
He didn't want to go on the cart, he was protecting himself.
 
2013-07-29 10:13:56 AM  
What sort of a trigger-happy pig feels threatened by a man who's nearly a century old?
 
2013-07-29 10:16:12 AM  
Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.
 
2013-07-29 10:17:18 AM  
You need to fire a shotgun round at a 95 year old man? just wait till 4 and the dude will be asleep.
 
2013-07-29 10:18:03 AM  
I loved Jarts & managed to pay attention & stay out of range of those sweet spears of maiming/death.
 
2013-07-29 10:18:52 AM  

Antagonism: PandaPorn: Maybe not the police officer's most prudent decision, but if you pull a knife on a cop that's kind of expected, even if you're elderly.

I'd be far more scared of my grandfather with dementia with a knife than my grandmother with a gun.


Somehow I'm picturing your grandfather as a geriatric Red Foreman wielding a knife while screaming about commies.
 
2013-07-29 10:20:45 AM  

The Muthaship: Again?

Now that is police brutality.


"Warna, wielding a 12-inch blade and a cane"
 Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?
 
2013-07-29 10:22:19 AM  
Just crank up the Myron Floren, and gramps would nod right off. No need for tasers and bean-bag rounds, just that sweet sweet accordion.
 
2013-07-29 10:22:42 AM  
Didn't read TFA, but assume there had to be witnesses, otherwise, this being Chicago, it would have been labeled a "suicide".
 
2013-07-29 10:23:09 AM  

happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.


Yeah, a taser and a bean-bag gun.
 
2013-07-29 10:23:42 AM  

KimNorth: The Muthaship: Again?

Now that is police brutality.

"Warna, wielding a 12-inch blade and a cane"
 Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?



After you get jump-started by the EMTs a few times, you develop an immunity.
 
2013-07-29 10:24:09 AM  
Yesterday someone bigger than me came at me with a knife. I put this person in a therapeutic hold (and made sure they do not have access to knives again, which should have been done earlier), then calmed them down and got their significant other to come talk. I did get a bloody nose out of it, but that happens.

I build autopilots and drones for a living, and this was not at all in my job description.

Surely someone whose entire job is to deal with these things can do better than shooting beanbags?
 
2013-07-29 10:24:23 AM  
Well, we had to abandon firehoses because they can be lethal, tear gas because it can be lethal, rubber bullets because they can be lethal, tasers because they can be lethal, and now bean-bag rounds because they can be lethal. Pretty soon we won't be allowing cops to have any non-lethal options at all.

/the solution will be to make "angering a cop" a death-penalty offense
//this will be celebrated as a new freedom in the era of hope and change
 
2013-07-29 10:24:58 AM  

give me doughnuts: KimNorth: The Muthaship: Again?

Now that is police brutality.

"Warna, wielding a 12-inch blade and a cane"
 Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?


After you get jump-started by the EMTs a few times, you develop an immunity.


Was trying to come up with that joke.  Bravo.
 
2013-07-29 10:25:10 AM  

give me doughnuts: KimNorth: The Muthaship: Again?

Now that is police brutality.

"Warna, wielding a 12-inch blade and a cane"
 Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?


After you get jump-started by the EMTs a few times, you develop an immunity.


REALLY???!!!
 
2013-07-29 10:25:33 AM  
Police continued to demand that Warna surrender and follow their orders and eventually used a Taser on him. That failed to subdue him and he continued to threaten others, the release said.

Bad on the sissy cops for tasing a 95 year old man.  Just wait till nap time.

But then again, Wow!  Ninety five years old and the taser failed to subdue him.   Must of been a tough old bastard.
 
2013-07-29 10:25:45 AM  

KimNorth: The Muthaship: Again?

Now that is police brutality.

"Warna, wielding a 12-inch blade and a cane"
 Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?


There's another link about this already.  The bad joke is that they now killed him twice.

/a thousand apologies.
 
2013-07-29 10:26:14 AM  

happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.


Yeah it's called a beanbag round.
 
2013-07-29 10:26:53 AM  
He pulls a knife, you pull a Taser.  Then shoot him while he's down.  That's the Chicago way!

www.the-frame.com
 
2013-07-29 10:31:52 AM  
They couldn't shoot the knife from his cold hand?
 
2013-07-29 10:32:07 AM  

Tatterdemalian: /the solution will be to make "angering a cop" a death-penalty offense


News Flash:  It already is.
 
2013-07-29 10:34:54 AM  

Nasal_Avenger: happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.

Yeah, a taser and a bean-bag gun.


Which proved to be lethal on a 95 year old man. You're telling me a cop with gloves and armor and such couldn't disarm without resorting to lethal methods?
 
2013-07-29 10:35:48 AM  
We already had this thread, but I'm on my phone and can't get to Farkback.
 
2013-07-29 10:37:28 AM  

happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.


even with a knife a person that old is not that hard to handle, hell just poke him with a long stick till he falls over!
 
2013-07-29 10:38:01 AM  
Not seeing a problem here, he pulled a knife on the cops/EMTs.  My guess is that the cop was prob too close to the guy when he shot him and the guy being 95 didn't help.
 
2013-07-29 10:38:17 AM  
So... crazy old man grabs a butcher knife and threatens police?  There are no possible endings to this story where everyone comes out looking good.

Police are trained that a knife is a ranged weapon - and not to engage them hands-on. You never know what a combination of prescription meds, other substances, or mental health issues can do to someone - in this case, a seemingly harmless 95-year-old might have been a brutal switchblade fighter in the 1950s, and meds might have reverted his brain to that state. Stranger things than that happen every day.

It's a crappy outcome, but police doing exactly what they are trained to do is hardly evidence of brutality.
 
2013-07-29 10:40:39 AM  
How long till a 95 year old man gasses out? 30 seconds?

Odds are they shot him with the taser and bean bags at the 1 second mark...cops love their job.
 
2013-07-29 10:41:26 AM  
They should have thrown a blanket over him like he was a cat that needed to go to the vet.
 
2013-07-29 10:43:06 AM  

rac23: happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.

even with a knife a person that old is not that hard to handle, hell just poke him with a long stick till he falls over!


I really don't like cops but you are being silly.  It's not worth risking being severely injured when you have a safe and approved method for dealing with the situation that is almost never fatal.
 
2013-07-29 10:45:19 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Normally, I am the first one to say that the cops are at fault, but in this case:

1. He threatened them with a cane and shoehorn
2. He dropped the cane and shoehorn in favor of a 12 inch butcher knife
3. Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes
4. The taser was inneffective
5. The beanbag round was, but infortunately caused internal bleeding

I cannot fault the cops. They tried and tried in this case instead of: shoot first, shoot more, and when everyone is dead start to ask questions which is the normal M.O. of cops today. In this case I do not fault them. You don't wrestle someone with a butcher knife no matter how old they are.



This.  My wife's father is 95 and batshiat insane IMHO.  If he pulled a knife he would use it and think nothing of it.
 
2013-07-29 10:48:57 AM  
thespree.com

They should have waved one of these around in front of him. He'd dropped those weapons.
 
2013-07-29 10:50:55 AM  

happydude45: Nasal_Avenger: happydude45: Yes, there have to be non-lethal means of disabling a 95 year old man.

Yeah, a taser and a bean-bag gun.

Which proved to be lethal on a 95 year old man. You're telling me a cop with gloves and armor and such couldn't disarm without resorting to lethal methods?


Fark that. Unless you actually have someone coming at you with a blade, it's easy to say how someone should react. Would you risk a stab wound to a lethal area just to protect some idiot with a knife? I wouldn't.
Bad luck for the 95 year old man but when you start pointing knives at people, whether you know what you're doing or not, maybe it's time for you to not be around.
 
2013-07-29 10:51:27 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes


Body armor does not defeat knives.

Kevlar arrests the bullet because the bullet is spinning....knives slice right through Kevlar.
 
2013-07-29 10:58:19 AM  
This is a crazy story. Why wouldn't you just let Grandpa tucker himself out after a few minutes and then detain him? At 95, I'm sure the stand off wasn't going to last more than a hour or two.
 
2013-07-29 10:59:08 AM  

Giltric: HindiDiscoMonster: Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes

Body armor does not defeat knives.

Kevlar arrests the bullet because the bullet is spinning....knives slice right through Kevlar.


How about six in one chainmail?
 
2013-07-29 11:04:08 AM  

Giltric: HindiDiscoMonster: Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes

Body armor does not defeat knives.

Kevlar arrests the bullet because the bullet is spinning....knives slice right through Kevlar.


The spinning has nothing to do with the effectiveness of kevlar stopping a slug.
A good kevlar vest will resist knife attacks.
 
2013-07-29 11:05:08 AM  

Giltric: They should have thrown a blanket over him like he was a cat that needed to go to the vet.


Exactly How about a net?
 
2013-07-29 11:06:46 AM  
After probably 80 years of making their own decisions, someone forcing an unwanted medical procedure on them is liable to piss some people off.
 
2013-07-29 11:08:30 AM  

KimNorth: Sad, but even the taser failed to do a thing to him..what were they to do?


Use therapeutic hold techniques? If a cop cannot overpower, or move faster than, a 95 year old man he or she should not be on the force.

However, it is true that one can be desnsitized to electrical shocks. I once had the opportunity to greatly perplex a cop as I continued having a conversation with him as he tazed my left arm.
 
2013-07-29 11:11:40 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Giltric: HindiDiscoMonster: Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes

Body armor does not defeat knives.

Kevlar arrests the bullet because the bullet is spinning....knives slice right through Kevlar.

The spinning has nothing to do with the effectiveness of kevlar stopping a slug.
A good kevlar vest will resist knife attacks.


Does it also resist the scissors they use to trim the Kevlar when they manufacture the vests?
 
2013-07-29 11:12:14 AM  
I used to work at the state (mental) hospital summers when I was a teen, mostly on the geriatric wards.
Some time the old birds get a little physical.  But if you can lift a donut, you can keep two steps ahead of the spryest of geezers.  Killing the dude was inexcusable.
 
2013-07-29 11:15:38 AM  
katherinegscott.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-29 11:16:16 AM  
I'm also going to go out on a limb here as the man's full medical info isn't available (for obvious reasons), but I'm guessing he
a) had dementia and was acting sort of crazy, which is why the center was having him sent to the hospital "involuntarily"
B) He was probably on warfarin or other blood thinners, which is what actually made the bean bag strike lethal.  What would be simple bruise in your or me turned into uncontrolled internal bleeding.

  Maybe it would have been better to target his legs with the bean bags, but they generally go for center mass with those things to knock you down.

Could a couple of cops wrestled him to the ground before he had the knife?  Maybe.  But wrestling a combative 95 year old to the ground probably has a high risk of causing fractures, long arm/leg bone fractures or hip fractures which can all be lethal in a person of that age as well.
   Taser and bean-bag were ultimately the safest methods of taking this man down for all involved, and police could just let the situation diffuse because this was at an assisted living facility, not a private home, and they couldn't leave the possibility of other residents being harmed.
 
2013-07-29 11:17:59 AM  

Giltric: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Giltric: HindiDiscoMonster: Normals cops do not respond in full body armor to senior homes

Body armor does not defeat knives.

Kevlar arrests the bullet because the bullet is spinning....knives slice right through Kevlar.

The spinning has nothing to do with the effectiveness of kevlar stopping a slug.
A good kevlar vest will resist knife attacks.

Does it also resist the scissors they use to trim the Kevlar when they manufacture the vests?


Here, read this.
 
2013-07-29 11:19:15 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: wellreadneck: After probably 80 years of making their own decisions, someone forcing an unwanted medical procedure on them is liable to piss some people off.

once you are in the ambulance you can refuse transport or treatment, but you should not get all derpy to 11 and threaten people with shiat.


If they're forced into an ambulance, then refuse transport or treatment, do they owe anyone any money?
 
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