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(Mother Jones)   Obama: "Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers"   (motherjones.com) divider line 217
    More: Dumbass, Obama, ho chi minh, dads, representative democracies, Khmer Rouge, Maoists  
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2318 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jul 2013 at 9:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



217 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-29 07:55:35 AM  
Tag for the outrage or for you, subby?
 
2013-07-29 08:07:30 AM  
Farking history.

Why can't we just ignore the parts that we don't like?
 
2013-07-29 08:12:09 AM  
In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson.

That must have been surreal.
 
2013-07-29 08:46:06 AM  
Let's not delude ourselves here: the Viet Minh and Ho Chi Minh may indeed have thought and written that, but it's not like if we supported them they would have been any better than the brutal dictatorship we wound up supporting during the Vietnam War, and their actions show that in plain sight. They still did horrible things to their own people.  It don't know what the outcome of supporting HCM would have been, but I can assure 2 things: not 50,000+ dead, and if you think the French hate us now, hoo boy...
 
2013-07-29 09:16:14 AM  
Quite honestly, the French dug that hole all by themselves.

Anyway, my thoughts on that war are summed up with "Fighting for somebody else's freedom is like farking for somebody else's virginity"
 
2013-07-29 09:33:08 AM  
*sigh*
Stop with this busted talking point submitter.
You're only demonstrating you fail at history.
 
2013-07-29 09:35:44 AM  

SilentStrider: *sigh*
Stop with this busted talking point submitter.
You're only demonstrating you fail at history.



If you think that I am going to out myself just because of your stupid comment...
 
2013-07-29 10:03:31 AM  
Subby did not read the article he submitted.  Welcome to day ending 'y'.
 
2013-07-29 10:03:53 AM  
Sure.  Lot's of twisted movements have noble roots.
 
2013-07-29 10:04:01 AM  
Facts have a liberal bias.
 
2013-07-29 10:04:11 AM  
I guess they got all worked up on Friday, because I don't see anything about it on Drudge or Fox News.
 
2013-07-29 10:04:19 AM  
Yeah, and Ho was also big on that very Jeffersonian ideal of the farmer as soul of the nation.
 
2013-07-29 10:04:24 AM  
Allen West is not smarter than a 5th grader.  We knew that already.
 
2013-07-29 10:05:04 AM  
Obama should apologize for stating a fact. - Allen West
 
2013-07-29 10:05:26 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Sure.  Lot's of twisted movements have noble roots.


I can think of one movement that we did Nazi coming.
 
2013-07-29 10:05:56 AM  
Truth is hard, let's go wharrgarbling.

But no, the fact that his is correct is immaterial because something something Benghazi.
 
2013-07-29 10:06:09 AM  
Has anyone mentioned that subby doesn't understand history yet?
 
2013-07-29 10:07:13 AM  

BunkyBrewman: Farking history.

Why can't we just ignore the parts that we don't like?


I for one know in my deepest pit of my heart that political revolutions always work out and that a democratic republic can never fall into corruption or be capable of committing any sort of genocide or mere ethnic cleansing. Some asshole on AM radio with a gravely voice said it, it must be true!
 
2013-07-29 10:07:33 AM  
Didn't St. Reagan say the Taliban were the equivalents of America's founding fathers as well?
 
2013-07-29 10:07:51 AM  
What Obama said is literally a historical fact.

In other news, in addition to being a war criminal, Allen West is a real dumb motherfarker.
 
2013-07-29 10:08:23 AM  

FarkedOver: Didn't St. Reagan say the Taliban were the equivalents of America's founding fathers as well?


Ahhh yes here it is:

www.legitgov.org
 
2013-07-29 10:09:52 AM  

LordZorch: Quite honestly, the French dug that hole all by themselves.

Anyway, my thoughts on that war are summed up with "Fighting for somebody else's freedom is like farking for somebody else's virginity"


I wish that had been the "farking for virginity" phrase protest trolls had latched onto instead of the one they did.
 
2013-07-29 10:10:22 AM  

Jake Havechek: What Obama said is literally a historical fact.

In other news, in addition to being a war criminal, Allen West is a real dumb motherfarker.


That's not news.
 
2013-07-29 10:10:29 AM  
It's because of things like this that I always say that "Conservativism" isn't much more than demonology anymore.
 
2013-07-29 10:11:04 AM  
I want to hear Cornel West call Allen West the "N" word.

//because irony
///because Chris Rock
////because giggles
 
2013-07-29 10:11:07 AM  
I propose that Ho Chi Minh probably understood the U.S. Constitution, and the words of Thomas Jefferson, better than the current Republicans do.
 
2013-07-29 10:11:55 AM  
Article: And then Obama said "Paula Deen told me 'I just can't stand those darkies!'"

Headline: Obama: I just can't stand those darkies!
 
2013-07-29 10:12:36 AM  
"Trusted with the destinies of this solitary republic of the world, the only monument of human rights, and the sole depository of the sacred fire of freedom and self-government, from hence it is to be lighted up in other regions of the earth, if other regions of the earth shall ever become susceptible of its benign influence."

- Thomas Jefferson, from his farewell address at the end of his second term in 1809

Jefferson never intended for the ideals of the revolution to be exclusively American, quite the opposite.
 
2013-07-29 10:12:39 AM  
An inconvenient truth.
 
2013-07-29 10:13:29 AM  
In ::shudder:: defense of Allen West, the comparison is not entirely unlike the argument in "Liberal Fascism" where Hitler was a liberal because both he and liberals were vegetarian. Just because he was inspired by a certain thinker or concept doesn't mean that in execution their rule had any relationship at all with the philosophies they claimed kinship with.

If it's ridiculous for Jonah Goldberg to claim Hitler liberal for nominally espousing liberal philosophers (which it is), it is equally ridiculous for Obama to claim Ho Chi Minh democratic or Western by saying he was inspired by Jefferson. Now, Obama didn't explicitly say the Ho Chi Minh was democratic or Western, but why else bring the point up?
 
2013-07-29 10:13:55 AM  

FarkedOver: FarkedOver: Didn't St. Reagan say the Taliban were the equivalents of America's founding fathers as well?

Ahhh yes here it is:

[www.legitgov.org image 485x237]


Well, good luck getting the GOP to dig up Reagan's grave just so they can kill him again.  He's undoubtedly entombed in 5 feet of red-white-and-blue marble.
 
2013-07-29 10:14:01 AM  

vartian: In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson.

That must have been surreal.


In hindsight, yes, but at the time it wasn't.   He probably was inspired by Jefferson in an anti-colonialism, self determination sort of way.

Funny, I thought this was semi-common knowledge.  Or at least well known by historical trivia buffs.
 
2013-07-29 10:14:07 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Obama should apologize for stating a fact. - Allen West


The problem is that facts like this don't support the conservative comic book narrative of history.

Therefore, we must kill the Factman.
 
2013-07-29 10:15:02 AM  

nmrsnr: Just because he was inspired by a certain thinker or concept doesn't mean that in execution their rule had any relationship at all with the philosophies they claimed kinship with.


literally no one is claiming this holy shiat
 
2013-07-29 10:15:33 AM  

nmrsnr: In ::shudder:: defense of Allen West, the comparison is not entirely unlike the argument in "Liberal Fascism" where Hitler was a liberal because both he and liberals were vegetarian. Just because he was inspired by a certain thinker or concept doesn't mean that in execution their rule had any relationship at all with the philosophies they claimed kinship with.

If it's ridiculous for Jonah Goldberg to claim Hitler liberal for nominally espousing liberal philosophers (which it is), it is equally ridiculous for Obama to claim Ho Chi Minh democratic or Western by saying he was inspired by Jefferson. Now, Obama didn't explicitly say the Ho Chi Minh was democratic or Western, but why else bring the point up?


You know what's most ridiculous?  Reading into what Obama said other than saying Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the Founding Fathers.
 
2013-07-29 10:15:56 AM  
Obama: "Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers"
Ho Chi Minh: "I was inspired by Thomas Jefferson, one of America's Founding Fathers."

FTFY subby

/old news from 1945 is so exciting!
 
2013-07-29 10:16:12 AM  

nmrsnr: In ::shudder:: defense of Allen West, the comparison is not entirely unlike the argument in "Liberal Fascism" where Hitler was a liberal because both he and liberals were vegetarian. Just because he was inspired by a certain thinker or concept doesn't mean that in execution their rule had any relationship at all with the philosophies they claimed kinship with.

If it's ridiculous for Jonah Goldberg to claim Hitler liberal for nominally espousing liberal philosophers (which it is), it is equally ridiculous for Obama to claim Ho Chi Minh democratic or Western by saying he was inspired by Jefferson. Now, Obama didn't explicitly say the Ho Chi Minh was democratic or Western, but why else bring the point up?


We don't know which movements that draw inspiration from people like Thomas Jefferson will turn out to be truly democratic except through the lens of history.
 
2013-07-29 10:17:48 AM  
Hogate! Hoghazi! HoRS!
 
2013-07-29 10:18:12 AM  
I just got back from Hanoi, so getting a kick and all that.

The most interesting part of the Uncle Ho story is how it all could have been headed off:

Following World War I, the group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the Versailles peace talks, but was ignored. Citing the language and the spirit of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, they expected U.S. President Woodrow Wilson to help remove the French colonial rule from Vietnam and ensure the formation of a new, nationalist government. Although they were unable to obtain consideration at Versailles, the failure further radicalized Nguyễn, while also making him a symbol of the anti-colonial movement at home in Vietnam.
 
2013-07-29 10:18:19 AM  
Wait until Allen West and right-leaning editorialists discover that Karl Marx was a supporter of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant.

It would be worse if Lincoln and Grant were supporters of/inspired by Marx, like Obama.
 
2013-07-29 10:19:28 AM  

FarkedOver: FarkedOver: Didn't St. Reagan say the Taliban were the equivalents of America's founding fathers as well?

Ahhh yes here it is:

[www.legitgov.org image 485x237]


That quote is Reagan speaking about the Nicaraguan contras. I'm not sure who those people are, but the Taliban didn't exist during his presidency.
 
2013-07-29 10:19:57 AM  
\

Aristocles: Wait until Allen West and right-leaning editorialists discover that Karl Marx was a supporter of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant.

It would be worse if Lincoln and Grant were supporters of/inspired by Marx, like Obama.


More like Fartbama, amirite?
 
2013-07-29 10:20:43 AM  

Rapmaster2000: \Aristocles: Wait until Allen West and right-leaning editorialists discover that Karl Marx was a supporter of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant.

It would be worse if Lincoln and Grant were supporters of/inspired by Marx, like Obama.

More like Fartbama, amirite?


You are correct, sir.
 
2013-07-29 10:21:00 AM  

Aristocles: Wait until Allen West and right-leaning editorialists discover that Karl Marx was a supporter of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant.

It would be worse if Lincoln and Grant were supporters of/inspired by Marx, like Obama.


Grant I can't speak of, but I think it is almost certain that Lincoln was inspired some what by Marx.

With a quote like this:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

Lincoln clearly had read Marx and subscribed to some of his ideas.
 
2013-07-29 10:21:23 AM  
People fighting for independence from European colonists found something in common with people who fought for independence from European colonists.

UNPOSSIBLE!
 
2013-07-29 10:22:31 AM  

thurstonxhowell: That quote is Reagan speaking about the Nicaraguan contras. I'm not sure who those people are, but the Taliban didn't exist during his presidency.


I think you need to do some searching on the interwebs.
 
2013-07-29 10:23:46 AM  

Alphax: Allen West is not smarter than a 5th grader. We knew that already.


FTFY
 
2013-07-29 10:24:48 AM  
It doesn't sound like Ho Chi Minh did much in the way of homework. There is a superficial resemblance, it is true, but he quickly took it in a very different and terrible direction.
 
2013-07-29 10:25:01 AM  

sinanju: I just got back from Hanoi, so getting a kick and all that.

The most interesting part of the Uncle Ho story is how it all could have been headed off:

Following World War I, the group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the Versailles peace talks, but was ignored. Citing the language and the spirit of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, they expected U.S. President Woodrow Wilson to help remove the French colonial rule from Vietnam and ensure the formation of a new, nationalist government. Although they were unable to obtain consideration at Versailles, the failure further radicalized Nguyễn, while also making him a symbol of the anti-colonial movement at home in Vietnam.


Using facts to explain history makes people and events understandable.
 
2013-07-29 10:25:16 AM  

nmrsnr: why else bring the point up?


Possibly because you're the President of a nation speaking to a President of another nation and trying to emphasize the strong ties your people share.

Also, it's pretty weak to assume Obama brought it up. Sang brought out a copy of a letter Ho Chi Minh sent to Truman, then they talked about Ho Chi Minh's being inspired by the Declaration of Independence. It sounds to me like Obama just agreed that things that are clearly true are true.
 
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