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(The Verge)   Ballmer admits Microsoft built too many surface tablets while nailing them to his roof as cheap shingle substitutes   (theverge.com) divider line 148
    More: Obvious, Ballmer, Microsoft, Windows, Windows Store, Microsoft built, Ballmer admits, Surface RT, roofs  
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3275 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Jul 2013 at 1:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-28 08:51:23 PM

fisker: MightyPez: fisker: MightyPez: I run Windows 8

I'm running Windows 8.1.

Try again.

Bully for you, what does that have to do with what I was saying? I'm running 8.1 in a VM for testing. Do I get accolades now too?

This is better.

What are you having problems with?


I haven't had any. I also was, at no point, disparaging either in this thread. Are you schizophrenic?
 
2013-07-28 08:53:42 PM

MightyPez: fisker: MightyPez: fisker: MightyPez: I run Windows 8

I'm running Windows 8.1.

Try again.

Bully for you, what does that have to do with what I was saying? I'm running 8.1 in a VM for testing. Do I get accolades now too?

This is better.

What are you having problems with?

I haven't had any. I also was, at no point, disparaging either in this thread. Are you schizophrenic?


No.

I am dealing with multiple personalities on a discussion board and I am wiping them out because I anti-schizoid.
 
2013-07-28 08:53:45 PM

Bravo Two: Linux_Yes: Bravo Two: Linux


Linux runs better than the Apple.   alot less 'walled garden' to deal with.

I never really cared about the walled garden. In fact, I kind of liked it for most things. And, in my experience, Linux on a PC ran as well as Mac on a Mac, though it was far less integrated and put together given the fragmentation of people building software and GUI elements and not following any kind of uniform standard of where to put what and how it all works together.

But. Here I am arguing with a known troll. Silly me.


Also, Linux suffers from one other major flaw: it still doesn't have the software library that works as well as Mac or pc. Want exchange email on Linux? Sorry, you're SOL. Need ready support for all the features of a printer? Good luck. Have a laptop or desktop that uses something not quite standard? Good luck!

I have an MSI notebook that has both the intel integrated and an NVIDIA discreet GPU. In windows, it smartly switches between them for power savings. In Linux, good luck getting it to use the discreet card.

And, I find the Linux method of installing software esoteric and annoying. I want to download a package, double click, and let it go. I don't want to fark around in the terminal or have to worry about dependencies and custom tweaks to get things working.

This is what I like about apple: it just works as I can be lazy. It looks nice, it does what I want, and it has the unix shell and apps when I want/need them.

Pity that apple's hardware is A gen or two behind the average PC these days, with less options. Hence I switched to windows. And so far, I really like most things about 8 after learning my way around.
 
2013-07-28 09:03:50 PM

MightyPez: Are you schizophrenic?


Trust me.

If there was something actually wrong with Windows 8 (8.1) I would be screaming about it in the same manner that I scream about people thinking that The Avengers was a good movie.

You are all farked in the head.

You never decide for yourselves.
 
2013-07-28 09:11:05 PM

fisker: MightyPez: Are you schizophrenic?

Trust me.

If there was something actually wrong with Windows 8 (8.1) I would be screaming about it in the same manner that I scream about people thinking that The Avengers was a good movie.

You are all farked in the head.

You never decide for yourselves.


At this point I have to think you're trolling. I haven't said a thing about Windows 8 or 8.1, good or bad. I run both. You're just itching for a fight, for some reason.
 
2013-07-28 09:11:41 PM
Ugh, I need to stop engaging crazy people on the internet.
 
2013-07-28 09:15:49 PM

MightyPez: fisker: MightyPez: Are you schizophrenic?

Trust me.

If there was something actually wrong with Windows 8 (8.1) I would be screaming about it in the same manner that I scream about people thinking that The Avengers was a good movie.

You are all farked in the head.

You never decide for yourselves.

At this point I have to think you're trolling. I haven't said a thing about Windows 8 or 8.1, good or bad. I run both. You're just itching for a fight, for some reason.


It gets better. It far exceeds your ability to understand because I am a farking master at this.
 
2013-07-28 09:31:21 PM
Steve Balmer demonstrates the new Microsoft Oral Computer and Light Source, powered by Windows RT
 
2013-07-28 09:33:17 PM
WTF?  It "threw away" the image?

washingtonisbroke.com
 
2013-07-28 09:40:23 PM
I am a 43 year old sysadmin with many years in the game, and I will say that Win8 is a pretty decent os once you run stardock.

The majority of Apple users would not know a command line if it bit them in the ass.
 
2013-07-28 09:40:51 PM
In name, Microsoft will be around maybe 20 more years. They'll never release any more hardware, and their next attempt at an OS will be their deathknell.

Zynga will last perhaps another 5 years. Someone will buy them based on their terrible valuation and name recognition (hopefully EA), and it will go down in the annals as among the worst capital investments of all time. Careers of reasonably intelligent people will be destroyed by it. And justly so.
 
2013-07-28 10:12:52 PM

theflatline: The majority of Apple users would not know a command line if it bit them in the ass.


My 75 year old mother has zero need to even know that Command Line exists.  For that matter, neither does 98% of the world's population.

/god I hate techies who assume that everyone needs to know technical minutiae they have no use for.
 
2013-07-28 10:35:21 PM
How are poorly documented, hidden preferences and a CLI straight from the late 80s an acceptable response to today's market? It's like saying that I can have the customizability of an X11 interface on my mac if I download Xcode, do into preferences, download command-line coding libraries, and then the thing's source code, then compile it in the terminal (guess what I had to do to get Zangband working?). I get a vastly inferior product after a lot of pointless hassle.

There is absolutely no excuse for ever asking the vast majority of users (say, 99.9% of them) to ever go to a command line. Any interface which requires that throws out forty years of UI development and every user's expectations.

Please, please defend using a command line for me. How does that suit the average person's needs, ESPECIALLY on a UI which encourages touch interface?

/Got me an OEM version of Windows 7 since OS10.8 won't allow XP anymore. Thank God I got it when I did.
 
2013-07-28 10:44:29 PM

Marine1: RandomAxe: Marine1: Enough whining about an interface change.

You don't really understand the concept of 'the customer', much less the point of 'the user'.

And they don't understand the concept of 'progress', much less 'development headaches'. They're the same people who will ask, 'Why do I need to upgrade my Windows XP laptop? It does everything I need just fine", then come to you whining about how it won't run the latest programs and is full of more security holes than Swiss cheese.

If Apple had introduced it, people would hail it as a major advancement. I've been using it on my desktop since launch day. There's nothing wrong with it. If you can figure out managing a computer from the CLI, you have the mental horsepower to adjust to Windows 8. If you don't, quit your job and start cleaning bathrooms at the local hourly-rate motel. I'm far from the most capable power user I know, and if I can figure it out as an undergrad in an IT program, anyone can.


What problems that previously existed were fixed by the UI changes in Windows 8 / Server 2012?

I won't hold my breath waiting, but I'll give you a hint: you're the one who should stay out of or leave the IT industry.
 
2013-07-28 11:01:51 PM

Funbags: In name, Microsoft will be around maybe 20 more years. They'll never release any more hardware, and their next attempt at an OS will be their deathknell.


Their next piece of hardware comes out in a few months.  As long as their are "fat" programs that business use Microsoft will exist with an OS.  Honestly the biggest competitor long-term for MS is not Apple, certainly not Linux, but rather it is Chrome.

In a connected world where nearly everything exists in the cloud and is accessed from a browser a full-fledged OS is not necessary for 90% of what people do.
 
2013-07-28 11:07:59 PM

Carousel Beast: Marine1: RandomAxe: Marine1: Enough whining about an interface change.

You don't really understand the concept of 'the customer', much less the point of 'the user'.

And they don't understand the concept of 'progress', much less 'development headaches'. They're the same people who will ask, 'Why do I need to upgrade my Windows XP laptop? It does everything I need just fine", then come to you whining about how it won't run the latest programs and is full of more security holes than Swiss cheese.

If Apple had introduced it, people would hail it as a major advancement. I've been using it on my desktop since launch day. There's nothing wrong with it. If you can figure out managing a computer from the CLI, you have the mental horsepower to adjust to Windows 8. If you don't, quit your job and start cleaning bathrooms at the local hourly-rate motel. I'm far from the most capable power user I know, and if I can figure it out as an undergrad in an IT program, anyone can.

What problems that previously existed were fixed by the UI changes in Windows 8 / Server 2012?

I won't hold my breath waiting, but I'll give you a hint: you're the one who should stay out of or leave the IT industry.


From a lazy user's perspective: The start screen makes it a hell of a lot easier to see your apps and organize them than does the start menu. Having the ability to configure "apps" such that they display useful information there, like current appointment for Exchange Calendar or weather info, makes it about as useful to me as having such abilities in Dashboard on a mac. win key, bam, i have quick updated information. Plus I get the same ability as I get in apple's Launch pad to see my favorite apps, search through all apps, and have a simple Winkey--> Start typing --> Find ap/hit return--> Launch app which saves a few steps.

where Win 8 fell on its face for me was not immediately putting things like the control panel and "Advanced user" items right out in front easily. Having "Settings" take you to a page that has nothing to do with either the Control Panel or anything else related to configuration of the US is unintuitive. Having the OS on a PC not have the option to default to a desktop view with some means of accessing the start screen without a keyboard input or a hot corner is unintuitive. Having a separate bar with "charms" that should be part of the start screen is unintuitive.

Now me, I hated the start menu. Having either a crapton of icons in the start menu, or on the task bar, or having to root through folders to get to apps was a pain in the ass (and that assumes that the apps were ones that installed something in the start menu and not just dropping a standalone EXE on the machine.   The start screen is neater, easier, and more apt to be useful "at a glance" since I can now arrange apps into columns that make sense to me and they're all right there.

As a SysAdmin, it's a tossup. I *like* any OS that treats my server as an appliance for first-blush access. I don't *want* to go straight to a desktop all the time. i want a five-icon "launcher" that goes either to the server center, the power shell, or the consoles for services like Exchange, AD, GP, etc.  Unless I'm doing something that requires the desktop, I'm not going to spend a heck of a lot of time dinking around in it, and on a server, I could be just as comfortable with the desktop not even running to save on the minimal resources it requires.  I have managed Linux servers that never even had a GUI, and that was fine with me, too.
 
2013-07-28 11:10:51 PM

mjbok: In a connected world where nearly everything exists in the cloud and is accessed from a browser a full-fledged OS is not necessary for 90% of what people do.


Save for the issue of how you make sure that traffic to and from the cloud is secure, and there are no means by which people can gain unauthorized access. Unless it exists in my data center where I can simply cut the cord to the outside if there's a concern, then depending on a trans-internet connection for data and apps is a huge security hole.

In enterprise, there must remain some way to host the "cloud" internally, much like Citrix and VMWare provide for virtual desktops and virtual apps that are hosted from a local server. No, the end user may not need a full PC for basic use, but the datacenter still needs to be in-house without some extremely secure alternative like a secure point to point connection.
 
2013-07-28 11:11:17 PM

fisker: MightyPez: Are you schizophrenic?

Trust me.

If there was something actually wrong with Windows 8 (8.1) I would be screaming about it in the same manner that I scream about people thinking that The Avengers was a good movie.

You are all farked in the head.

You never decide for yourselves.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-07-28 11:24:04 PM

Gleeman: fisker: MightyPez: Are you schizophrenic?

Trust me.

If there was something actually wrong with Windows 8 (8.1) I would be screaming about it in the same manner that I scream about people thinking that The Avengers was a good movie.

You are all farked in the head.

You never decide for yourselves.

[i.qkme.me image 625x483]


i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-28 11:36:24 PM

jso2897: fisker: Techhell: I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps"... blah blah blah


You might have a better argument going for you if you could do me a small favor and explain to me why I have never had ANY of the farking problems that you are having with Windows 8.

He can't. What you fail to understand is that the adaptive personality and the reactionary personality don't speak the same perceptive "language" - they don't observe the world in the same terms.
Like you, I fail to see what the fuss is with Win8 - but then, I have gone through this with every change in technology that has gone down in my lifetime, and I know other people who uniformly hate every change.
Adaptive personalities don't perceive technology as "territory". We don't feel "invaded" when the way we do something gets arbitrarily changed - we just do it the new way without really reacting on it.
The reactionary personality feels violated when some gadget he uses suddenly works differently - it's perception and perspective, and you can't argue with it because it ISN'T WRONG.
That is all.


Pointing out how un-worldly you are and how incapable you are of understanding other users' needs only serves to make you look both arrogant and incredibly stupid.
 
2013-07-28 11:37:07 PM

theflatline: The majority of Apple users would not know a command line if it bit them in the ass.


lol, wut?
pssst: it is no longer the 90s.
 
2013-07-28 11:51:20 PM

nytmare: jso2897: fisker: Techhell: I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps"... blah blah blah


You might have a better argument going for you if you could do me a small favor and explain to me why I have never had ANY of the farking problems that you are having with Windows 8.

He can't. What you fail to understand is that the adaptive personality and the reactionary personality don't speak the same perceptive "language" - they don't observe the world in the same terms.
Like you, I fail to see what the fuss is with Win8 - but then, I have gone through this with every change in technology that has gone down in my lifetime, and I know other people who uniformly hate every change.
Adaptive personalities don't perceive technology as "territory". We don't feel "invaded" when the way we do something gets arbitrarily changed - we just do it the new way without really reacting on it.
The reactionary personality feels violated when some gadget he uses suddenly works differently - it's perception and perspective, and you can't argue with it because it ISN'T WRONG.
That is all.

Pointing out how un-worldly you are and how incapable you are of understanding other users' needs only serves to make you look both arrogant and incredibly stupid.


And yet here you are, lashing out at me verbally, because you are so indifferent to my "stupidity".
Pushing fanbois buttons is fun.
 
2013-07-29 12:01:24 AM

Linux_Yes: Open Source Software is the Future.


...and has been for twenty-plus years.

2014 is the year of the Linux desktop. I feel it in my bones.
 
2013-07-29 12:02:44 AM

nytmare: jso2897: fisker: Techhell: I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps"... blah blah blah


You might have a better argument going for you if you could do me a small favor and explain to me why I have never had ANY of the farking problems that you are having with Windows 8.

He can't. What you fail to understand is that the adaptive personality and the reactionary personality don't speak the same perceptive "language" - they don't observe the world in the same terms.
Like you, I fail to see what the fuss is with Win8 - but then, I have gone through this with every change in technology that has gone down in my lifetime, and I know other people who uniformly hate every change.
Adaptive personalities don't perceive technology as "territory". We don't feel "invaded" when the way we do something gets arbitrarily changed - we just do it the new way without really reacting on it.
The reactionary personality feels violated when some gadget he uses suddenly works differently - it's perception and perspective, and you can't argue with it because it ISN'T WRONG.
That is all.

Pointing out how un-worldly you are and how incapable you are of understanding other users' needs only serves to make you look both arrogant and incredibly stupid.


The entire geek thread on this website does nothing but fark the ass of everything they think every other grandmother or typical asshole thinks about anything.

Everyone in this thread thinks that they have the perfect idea for the best operating system and they are doing nothing but tongue lashing.

I playtest for Microsoft and I give actual input to their developers because I figured I would step up and actually do something about it.

There are people here saying that Microsoft doesn't ask what others think or ask what they want and they are wrong.

These people sit you in a room and they watch your reaction. They build on that. Your reaction is what they are developing. Not what you think you want. It always changes and when they release something it is identical to the experience when Hollywood releases a movie. You already hate it even when you asked for it and didn't realize it.
 
2013-07-29 12:06:59 AM

Techhell: wee: Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.

As long as you have Monkey Boy for a CEO there's little you'll be good at.  Except for maybe embrace, extend and extinguish.

(Seriously: Did anyone see Windows 8 before it shipped?!  That is a farking awful UI...)

My bet is that there was someone at M$ who was in charge of screening the replies to the Beta testers of the Win8 UI, and anyone who said "This is awful!" found their input screened out.


When I beta tested it I even went out of my way to reference my ergonomics textbooks from college in my feedback.

The list of infractions was pretty impressive. And I'm positive my time was completely wasted.

/if they were forums, Linux would be stackoverflow and Microsoft would be freerepublic
 
2013-07-29 12:12:11 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Techhell: wee: Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.

As long as you have Monkey Boy for a CEO there's little you'll be good at.  Except for maybe embrace, extend and extinguish.

(Seriously: Did anyone see Windows 8 before it shipped?!  That is a farking awful UI...)

My bet is that there was someone at M$ who was in charge of screening the replies to the Beta testers of the Win8 UI, and anyone who said "This is awful!" found their input screened out.

When I beta tested it I even went out of my way to reference my ergonomics textbooks from college in my feedback.

The list of infractions was pretty impressive. And I'm positive my time was completely wasted.

/if they were forums, Linux would be stackoverflow and Microsoft would be freerepublic


i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-29 12:30:40 AM
jso2897

Nice!
 
2013-07-29 12:35:11 AM

Bravo Two: As a SysAdmin, it's a tossup. I *like* any OS that treats my server as an appliance for first-blush access. I don't *want* to go straight to a desktop all the time. i want a five-icon "launcher" that goes either to the server center, the power shell, or the consoles for services like Exchange, AD, GP, etc. Unless I'm doing something that requires the desktop, I'm not going to spend a heck of a lot of time dinking around in it, and on a server, I could be just as comfortable with the desktop not even running to save on the minimal resources it requires. I have managed Linux servers that never even had a GUI, and that was fine with me, too.


See, this is where I disagree. When you're in large environments, they're not homogeneous; we have flavors of Windows from 2000 on up, and exactly what we *don't* need is an oddball group of servers that you have to completely change both your mindset and practical steps to administrate for the exact same applications. I've spent 15 years getting my administrative setups the way I like them; I don't need Microsoft to turn around and dictate that it's now useless, when previously there was no artificial limitation on the OS. If SMB 3 wasn't the bee's knees, I wouldn't be deploying it in my SQL environment at all, solely for that reason.

Now, philosophically, I agree, the new UI in Win 8/Server 201 have some nice positives, but there needed to be a transition with an option on the switch and then the CATs putting out some white papers with examples of the new hotness available to admins. Instead, we got a hamfisted clusterfark.
 .
 
2013-07-29 12:35:57 AM
I'll never forgive Microsoft for removing deltree from the command line interface years back. Seriously a dick move.
 
2013-07-29 12:47:33 AM

Gotfire: I'll never forgive Microsoft for removing deltree from the command line interface years back. Seriously a dick move.


Now you have to del /s /q *

There might be a powershell way to do it, but powershell strikes me as a weird way of tricking admins into writing C# programs as a script. Might as well compile an exe with the potential for a GUI if you're going to go through the trouble.

Currently my favorite Microsoft dick move is in regards to diagnosing POP3 issues for Exchange: "Use telnet."

Which reminds me, I totally need to flip the guy who ported OpenSSL to Windows a buck or twenty.
 
2013-07-29 01:32:06 AM

fisker: nytmare: jso2897: fisker: Techhell: I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps"... blah blah blah


You might have a better argument going for you if you could do me a small favor and explain to me why I have never had ANY of the farking problems that you are having with Windows 8.

He can't. What you fail to understand is that the adaptive personality and the reactionary personality don't speak the same perceptive "language" - they don't observe the world in the same terms.
Like you, I fail to see what the fuss is with Win8 - but then, I have gone through this with every change in technology that has gone down in my lifetime, and I know other people who uniformly hate every change.
Adaptive personalities don't perceive technology as "territory". We don't feel "invaded" when the way we do something gets arbitrarily changed - we just do it the new way without really reacting on it.
The reactionary personality feels violated when some gadget he uses suddenly works differently - it's perception and perspective, and you can't argue with it because it ISN'T WRONG.
That is all.

Pointing out how un-worldly you are and how incapable you are of understanding other users' needs only serves to make you look both arrogant and incredibly stupid.

The entire geek thread on this website does nothing but fark the ass of everything they think every other grandmother or typical asshole thinks about anything.

Everyone in this thread thinks that they have the perfect idea for the best operating system and they are doing nothing but tongue lashing.

I playtest for Microsoft and I give actual input to their developers because I figured I would step up and actually do something about it.

There are people here saying that Microsoft doesn't ask what others think or ask what they want and they are wrong.

These people sit you in a room and they watch your reaction. They build on that. Your reaction is what they are developing. Not what you think you want. It always changes and when ...


I amost gave up when people in the GEEK tab didn't know jack shiat about the Nokia 808(which been out a year) when talking about MP on the Lumia 1020
 
2013-07-29 02:32:35 AM
"Look, a huge part of the problem is that a vast section of the market regards MS as wildly incompetent -- because they've never turned out a really good version of Windows. "

I still can't figure out if this statement is a troll or not. If not for the fact that a lot of newer programs just wouldn't support Windows 2000, I'd still be using it. I rarely had any issues with it and that OS ran fast. Win7 is also a great OS, created out of the disaster that was Vista. Until software support starts dying out for 7 I'll keep using it.

And "wildly incompetent"? No, that would be a company like Zynga or Groupon. MS still makes a healthy profit (unlike some companies like Amazon) and they can turn out decent products. That Microsoft tent to make a few really boneheaded decisions doesn't make them incompetent.
 
2013-07-29 03:49:18 AM

Linux_Yes: Microsoft is on her way out the Window.

Open Source Software is the Future.  the only place Open Source isn't kicking everyone's ass is the PC Desktop.  and that is because Billy Gates has OEM balls in his tight grasp.

even the Military is switching to Linux/Open Source.

Google and Learn.


emotibot.net

I'd love to hear examples of all these markets where open source is dominating.

The reality is that open source is getting clobbered nearly everywhere, as it has been essentially forever. The only major exceptions to this are web server (Apache) and smartphone OS (Android). Off the top of my head, the following software industries are dominated by closed source: client OS (Windows), gaming (Xbox, PS3, Steam), cloud (Amazon), productivity (Office), content management (SharePoint), enterprise server (Win Server), search (Google), Email (GMail, Exchange) social media (Facebook, Twitter), music (iPod, iTunes), image editing (Photoshop), etc. Each of these things has open source equivalents and they're all flailing for share because entering any of these spaces in a serious way takes billions of dollars. Android's funding is a rare exception, but as we've seen it doesn't make Google any money.

But maybe next year the entire landscape of the market will change...
 
2013-07-29 03:57:01 AM

oren0: The reality is that open source is getting clobbered nearly everywhere, as it has been essentially forever. The only major exceptions to this are web server (Apache) and smartphone OS (Android).


You could also include web browsers here, but I didn't, both because web browser market share is a matter of debate (see this Wikipedia page) and because Chrome is not fully open source.
 
2013-07-29 04:33:05 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Techhell: Windows has lost me as an automatic customer

There's millions of you out there, and it didn't have to be this way.  They threw the baby out with the bath water.  It's exactly like New Coke.


Same here. I switched to a Mac in 2006 and actually would've installed Windows 7 on it via boot camp if I'd had space. But then my laptop finally died and I ended up having to use my mom's Windows 8 laptop, and it just makes me mad. And why the HELL doesn't the escape button get me out of anything in the Metro interface? It's so jarring and pointless.

If I can't afford a Mac soon I may try to build a hackintosh. I didn't have to work much with OS X. Work just let me customize it extra, it already worked great. I also can't get used to the Windows versions of Photoshop and Illustrator for some reason.
 
2013-07-29 06:27:29 AM
I remember when it was a sin to have 'mystery meat' navigation.  Then it became "discoverable".  All the browsers have gone that way.  Hello, most of us have giant screens, we don't need to save every centimeter of space.  Then MS went full retard and made important parts of the OS discoverable.

RandomAxe: Believe me, I know a TON of people who will never 'upgrade' from XP. Never. They will jump to Apple or give in and do the work to switch to Mint or something rather than suffer through Windows 8.


Three giant computer/electronics sellers near me still use XP on their cash wraps.  Think about that a sec: businesses that mainly make money by selling computers and software use a 10 year old OS for a critical mission.  XP is also all over industrial systems.  For my work, Windows 7 works fine and is close enough to XP in operation that there usually aren't usability problems.   In fact, I just picked up a new notebook to support a client.  Didn't have time to order one with W7, none of the ones in stock were quite right, so I just got a good one, wiped out Windows 8 and put on W7 and loaded the drivers.  So much better.  If I had loaded up our company's stuff onto the stock W8 and handed it to the client they would have been farking pissed.   And no, Start8 or 8.1 with all the mods are still nowhere near good enough.
 
2013-07-29 06:41:58 AM

Techhell: Oh, sorry, he's a "reactionary personality".


I think the post you're referring to wins for idiocy in this thread.  My job is to innovate, I in fact love change a little too much.  But that means I've experienced cases (some by my own hand, some embarrassingly involving customers) where the change is for shiat.  So you, as the innovator go, welp, that sucked, sorry, let's go back to the old way or try something totally different.   In creative contexts, it's called "killing your babies", being willing to acknowledge when something you labored over just doesn't fit the bill and needs to be chucked.

For the next couple years there won't be a shortage of MS dick suckers who think everyone calling 8 out on its bullshiat UI "fear change".
 
2013-07-29 07:11:58 AM

Bacontastesgood: Techhell: Oh, sorry, he's a "reactionary personality".

I think the post you're referring to wins for idiocy in this thread.  My job is to innovate, I in fact love change a little too much.  But that means I've experienced cases (some by my own hand, some embarrassingly involving customers) where the change is for shiat.  So you, as the innovator go, welp, that sucked, sorry, let's go back to the old way or try something totally different.   In creative contexts, it's called "killing your babies", being willing to acknowledge when something you labored over just doesn't fit the bill and needs to be chucked.

For the next couple years there won't be a shortage of MS dick suckers who think everyone calling 8 out on its bullshiat UI "fear change".


Heh. Another sensitive nerve touched. Let the hate flow through you. But if you think it's the well-adjusted adults who don't obsess about these things who look like the "idiots" in these discussions, you are self deluded.
 
2013-07-29 10:28:06 AM

Techhell: Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.   You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

As I am currently posting from a Windows 8 Laptop, I can attest to this line in particular. I wanted a farking laptop computer - not a Tablet with a built in keyboard and USB capability. I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps". I hate when it opens up into a new entire-window app to view a photo or a movie, unless I specifically tell it to use VLC media player. I hate when it flips over to the Tiled view randomly and takes 10 seconds to go to the Start icon and then the Desktop tile. I hate having to install a third-party program to get a regular Start Menu. I hate how many hoops I have to jump through to remove passwords on user accounts, to add user accounts and to generally deal with user accounts. I hate when my cursor goes over the edge of the screen and menu's come up - I've got a shiatty mouse that sometimes freezes, then jumps. That's fine on my Windows 7 machine, but drives me nuts on Windows 8, and I hate that the only real fix is to buy a new farking mouse. I hate that it doesn't come with the basic games I've actually grown to love quite a bit - which is a rather petty hate, I know. But you add it all together and I'm not likely to buy a Windows Tablet in the future. Or any Windows products.

The Windows 8 inte ...


From 1991, I used Windows up until 2012. What finally turned me off to Windows was when my folks got a Compaq Presario 9232, with Windows 95 on it. That was the buggiest most unstable piece of crap I have EVER encountered in my life. Compaq Tech Support knew me by name and created a frequent flyer program just for me because I regularly called them up to figure out just what the heck was wrong with Windows this time and how to fix it. Once, (maybe cause they were getting so tired of having to fix Microsoft's crap) they sent me to Microsoft, and I don't recall getting much help there. After that experience, I went to Windows XP. I was sick and tired of the same old issues popping up. Sure, the serious crap I had with Compaq disappeared with the XP computer I got, but over time the same issues would crop up necessitating a complete reformat. (Gets slower, buggier, unstable). I wanted to jump to Apple, but Mr. Budget refused to let me, so instead I took the plunge and went full on Linux. I can't recall a time I was happier with an OS (well, wait, I can. My IBM PS/1 with Windows 3.1. Man, was that thing stable.). I was so pleased I had finally escaped from the Microsoft plantation!


...then my Linux laptop "died" (my tech friends say it sounds more like the video card is overheating and I need to apply new thermal paste to the heat sink). I needed a laptop so I bought a Lenovo (cool) with Windows 8 on it.


....

If I had bought a tablet, I'd say Windows 8 was awesome.
If my new laptop had a touchscreen, I'd have a better opinion of Windows 8.
But I didn't and my laptop doesn't.

Windows 8 is the most annoying and user-UNfriendly OS I have ever encountered in my life. Once I can figure out how to get Linux Mint to type in Japanese, I'm sending Windows 8 straight to reformat hell.

/end rant
//I still have my IBM PS/1, Windows 3.1 PC.
///Still works like a charm. Stable too.
www.old-computers.com
 
2013-07-29 10:34:32 AM
jso2897:Heh. Another sensitive nerve touched. Let the hate flow through you. But if you think it's the well-adjusted adults who don't obsess about these things who look like the "idiots" in these discussions, you are self deluded.

It was a terrible post, and your sorting of "everyone who hates bad UI decisions" into some bullshiat "reactionary personality" category was without grounding and entirely stupid. It was more embarrassing than <b>fisker</b>'s breakdown - at least he has the excuse of being seriously mentally ill and attached to reality by only a thin thread. You're just a baselessly self-important and wrong dick.
 
2013-07-29 11:49:08 AM

captainktainer: jso2897:Heh. Another sensitive nerve touched. Let the hate flow through you. But if you think it's the well-adjusted adults who don't obsess about these things who look like the "idiots" in these discussions, you are self deluded.

It was a terrible post, and your sorting of "everyone who hates bad UI decisions" into some bullshiat "reactionary personality" category was without grounding and entirely stupid. It was more embarrassing than <b>fisker</b>'s breakdown - at least he has the excuse of being seriously mentally ill and attached to reality by only a thin thread. You're just a baselessly self-important and wrong dick.


You're trying to have an argument with somebody who isn't taking an opposing position. Makes for a dull argument. You need to convince yourself that I am "a self-important and wrtong dick". I don't need for you to be "wrong". It's perfectly OK with me if you want to soak your pillow with tears every night because somebody made a piece of hardware or software that doesn't suit your personal, subjective taste. I just recommend tryng to remember that subjective, personal taste is all there really is in all this gadgetry - there are no objective standards for what technologies will come and go, and when. I am not trying to insult anyone, but neither can I fake caring about something that I find inherently trivial - you may think I'm a jerk, but do you really think I'd be an improvement as a phoney?
People read too much into it when somebody doesn'y buy into a value judgement - it doesn't mean that the person dismisses all value judgments, and it doesn't mean you should feel insulted because they don't make the same value judgments you do. Sometimes I suspect that people on this forum go out of their way to gin up points of diagreement and friction with others just so they can quarrel angrily and say things they can't get away with saying to the people they really hate - their boss, their co-workers, their creepy, so-called "friends", their lying, cheating spouse, etc. I'm sorry, but the emptiness of your life is not my fault, or my problem. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself - you're a big girl now.
 
2013-07-29 11:54:17 AM

jso2897: You're trying to have an argument with somebody who isn't taking an opposing position. Makes for a dull argument. You need to convince yourself that I am "a self-important and wrtong dick". I don't need for you to be "wrong". It's perfectly OK with me if you want to soak your pillow with tears every night because somebody made a piece of hardware or software that doesn't suit your personal, subjective taste. I just recommend tryng to remember that subjective, personal taste is all there really is in all this gadgetry - there are no objective standards for what technologies will come and go, and when. I am not trying to insult anyone, but neither can I fake caring about something that I find inherently trivial - you may think I'm a jerk, but do you really think I'd be an improvement as a phoney?
People read too much into it when somebody doesn'y buy into a value judgement - it doesn't mean that the person dismisses all value judgments, and it doesn't mean you should feel insulted because they don't make the same value judgments you do. Sometimes I suspect that people on this forum go out of their way to gin up points of diagreement and friction with others just so they can quarrel angrily and say things they can't get away with saying to the people they really hate - their boss, their co-workers, their creepy, so-called "friends", their lying, cheating spouse, etc. I'm sorry, but the emptiness of your life is not my fault, or my problem. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself - you're a big girl now.


That's a lot of marginally pretty words for "Everyone who likes something I don't like is immature" and "everyone who doesn't immediately like something I like is a reactive personality." For "not trying to insult anyone," you've done virtually nothing else, and for all your present bullshiat about "subjective, personal taste," you were mighty quick to sort everyone who hated Windows 8 into a negative pile on the basis of nothing more than your claim that it was easy to use for you.
 
2013-07-29 11:59:18 AM

captainktainer: jso2897: You're trying to have an argument with somebody who isn't taking an opposing position. Makes for a dull argument. You need to convince yourself that I am "a self-important and wrtong dick". I don't need for you to be "wrong". It's perfectly OK with me if you want to soak your pillow with tears every night because somebody made a piece of hardware or software that doesn't suit your personal, subjective taste. I just recommend tryng to remember that subjective, personal taste is all there really is in all this gadgetry - there are no objective standards for what technologies will come and go, and when. I am not trying to insult anyone, but neither can I fake caring about something that I find inherently trivial - you may think I'm a jerk, but do you really think I'd be an improvement as a phoney?
People read too much into it when somebody doesn'y buy into a value judgement - it doesn't mean that the person dismisses all value judgments, and it doesn't mean you should feel insulted because they don't make the same value judgments you do. Sometimes I suspect that people on this forum go out of their way to gin up points of diagreement and friction with others just so they can quarrel angrily and say things they can't get away with saying to the people they really hate - their boss, their co-workers, their creepy, so-called "friends", their lying, cheating spouse, etc. I'm sorry, but the emptiness of your life is not my fault, or my problem. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself - you're a big girl now.

That's a lot of marginally pretty words for "Everyone who likes something I don't like is immature" and "everyone who doesn't immediately like something I like is a reactive personality." For "not trying to insult anyone," you've done virtually nothing else, and for all your present bullshiat about "subjective, personal taste," you were mighty quick to sort everyone who hated Windows 8 into a negative pile on the basis of nothing more than your claim that ...



It is easy to use.
 
2013-07-29 12:10:46 PM

oren0: Linux_Yes: .


ignore that user - he is a troll who's schtick is making Linux supporters look like moronic zealots.

Operating system fanbois - no matter who they're adoring - are all annoying.
 
2013-07-29 12:29:31 PM

bingethinker: jso2897: bingethinker: Shadowknight:

And, let's face it, customer loyalty to them is pretty high among the Apple faithful.  They could announce the next iPhone would give you electric shocks every time in rings instead of vibrating, and a very large amount of their customers would laud it as revolutionary and burn another tribute to Steve Jobs.

A pretty good analysis until you got lazy or tired at the end there, and trotted out the old "Apple fans will buy anything" line. This lame propaganda comes straight from the marketing department of another company. Here's a hint: it's a company that's so bad at creating customer loyalty that they think there's something strange going on when people who bought an Apple product actually want to go back and buy another!

What do you mean "Apple fans will buy anything"?  Apple fans CAN'T buy anything - their credit cards are already maxxed out.

Sorry, this meme does not allow for reality. The iHaters aren't big on logic or common sense.



And Apple isn't big on standard features like a USB or SD slot unless thay can make money off it.

But do go on about 'common sense'.
 
2013-07-29 01:31:44 PM

fisker: Techhell: jso2897: fisker: Techhell: I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps"... blah blah blah


You might have a better argument going for you if you could do me a small favor and explain to me why I have never had ANY of the farking problems that you are having with Windows 8.

He can't. What you fail to understand is that the adaptive personality and the reactionary personality don't speak the same perceptive "language" - they don't observe the world in the same terms.
Like you, I fail to see what the fuss is with Win8 - but then, I have gone through this with every change in technology that has gone down in my lifetime, and I know other people who uniformly hate every change.
Adaptive personalities don't perceive technology as "territory". We don't feel "invaded" when the way we do something gets arbitrarily changed - we just do it the new way without really reacting on it.
The reactionary personality feels violated when some gadget he uses suddenly works differently - it's perception and perspective, and you can't argue with it because it ISN'T WRONG.
That is all.

You're both morons.

I can't answer <b>fisker</b>'s question because it's a stupid question. "I'm not having trouble with this therefore you're a moron." is essentially what his question is saying.

<b>jso2897</b> is saying essentially the same thing, "Oh, he doesn't like change ergo he's just dumb. Oh, sorry, he's a "reactionary personality". Which I can diagnose because he doesn't like this one change in technology that I happen to have no problems with, ergo he's got a "reactive" personality and feels like Win8 is violating his sense of territory."

I'm sorry, gentlemen - I'm not buying Windows so I can "adapt" to new technology and new software. If I want to adapt to new software, I'll buy a farking Mac or farking Linux. I have expectations of Windows OS's, and they aren't being met by Win8. I don't have a choice in buying Win8 for my farking computers because yo ...


What, did you design that retarded crap or something?  We get it, you like Win8.  That doesn't mean everyone else is going to just because you say so.  I work in an office full of old women.  The switch from XP to Win 7 has been bad enough, you think I want to go through 10x that if we got new computers with Win8?  NOPE.  We are sticking with Win 7 until pretty much hell freezes over at this point.
 
2013-07-29 02:31:39 PM

Faith Logic Passion: Once, (maybe cause they were getting so tired of having to fix Microsoft's crap) they sent me to Microsoft, and I don't recall getting much help there.


I had that problem with Windows 7 of all things. Kept getting a failure to boot with one of those error codes coming up on the screen, and even the Indian dude following his flowchart on the other end of my call to Microsoft couldn't figure out what the problem was even with the error code available.

(After some extensive troubleshooting and part swapping I figured out it was an intermittent hardware fault that wasn't showing up on diagnostic sweeps.)
 
2013-07-29 09:21:31 PM

captainktainer: You're just a baselessly self-important and wrong dick.


Yes he is.  I think maybe he thinks this is good trollin, but no, it's just sad and lame.

Thing is, I could sortof somehow see the Steve Jobs dick sucking, not for me but he's charismatic and all that, and Apple does UI really really well.  But sucking Ballmer/Sinofsky dick?  Just how low does your self-esteem have to be??
 
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