If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Verge)   Ballmer admits Microsoft built too many surface tablets while nailing them to his roof as cheap shingle substitutes   (theverge.com) divider line 148
    More: Obvious, Ballmer, Microsoft, Windows, Windows Store, Microsoft built, Ballmer admits, Surface RT, roofs  
•       •       •

3266 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Jul 2013 at 1:48 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



148 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-28 08:16:09 AM
I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.  You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

2) While the Surface Pro is by all accounts an awesome system that everyone I know that has one absolutely loves (see also:   Mike Krahulik of Penny Arcade's self review of the thing).  If I hadn't JUST bought a new ultrabook for editing my photos right before it was announced, I would have held out for that.  Everything I read says that while it's storage is limited (nothing that can't be fixed with a portable hard drive full of DNGs), it's more than powerful enough and has all the features of a Waccom visual tablet. for editing.

That said, the fact that they released an identical looking but intensely inferior Surface RT really confused the market.  The Pro runs a full version of Windows 8, whose "Metro" menu is infinitely less frustrating on a touch screen/tablet like device, and capable of running anything a normal laptop can run.  The RT, however, is like Microsoft's answer to the iPad, and can only run what you'd find on any mobile platform equivalent.  I think it confused the market, and people that would have heard about how awesome the Surface Pro is instead heard from a friend or a news site how stupid the RT was, and couldn't really tell the difference between the two.  And I can't really blame the average, non-techy person.  
3) Most markets usually end up boiling down to two companies.  Right now, the mobile market that Microsoft is desperate to get a piece of is dominated by Android and IOS.  And while they've made huge strides in that direction, it's going to be tough to get people used to the idea of a third major choice.  It may take an epic mistake on the part of one or the other, pissing off a large amount of customers, to allow enough breathing room for MS to flourish.  And since Android is so fragmented among devices (Samsung being the current king, but a lot their own having multiple variants and having of other companies' phones out there too), you probably won't piss off a lot of people at once for one defective device. So that leaves Apple to screw the pooch with a bad product, but for all of their shortcomings they do make a pretty solid product and don't have to program around a thousand different variants.  

And, let's face it, customer loyalty to them is pretty high among the Apple faithful.  They could announce the next iPhone would give you electric shocks every time in rings instead of vibrating, and a very large amount of their customers would laud it as revolutionary and burn another tribute to Steve Jobs.

This doesn't leave for a lot of room for MS to come in, so it's going to take a lot more than "Look, it's just like that versin of Windows you didn't like on your new laptop, only on your phone!  Great, right?!" to sell it.

/nerd
 
2013-07-28 08:19:38 AM
Please excuse the spelling and formatting mistakes.  Had a bit much to drink last night with the family, and woke up far too early.
 
2013-07-28 10:38:15 AM
seriesaddict.fr

"well, that's ballmer for you."
 
2013-07-28 12:06:43 PM
Bundle them free with an iPad?

I don't know why Microsoft is having trouble, they came out with some of the first tablet computers way back in the day.  Clearly, their market research should be the oldest.
 
2013-07-28 12:12:30 PM

Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.  You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

2) While the Surface Pro is by all accounts an awesome system that everyone I know that has one absolutely loves (see also:   Mike Krahulik of Penny Arcade's self review of the thing).  If I hadn't JUST bought a new ultrabook for editing my photos right before it was announced, I would have held out for that.  Everything I read says that while it's storage is limited (nothing that can't be fixed with a portable hard drive full of DNGs), it's more than powerful enough and has all the features of a Waccom visual tablet. for editing.

That said, the fact that they released an identical looking but intensely inferior Surface RT really confused the market.  The Pro runs a full version of Windows 8, whose "Metro" menu is infinitely less frustrating on a touch screen/tablet like device, and capable of running anything a normal laptop can run.  The RT, however, is like Microsoft's answer to the iPad, and can only run what you'd find on any mobile platform equivalent.  I think it confused the market, and people that would have heard about how awesome the Surface Pro is instead heard from a friend or a news site how stupid the RT was, and couldn't really tell the difference between the two.  And I can't really blame the average, non-techy person.
3) Most ...


as a microsoft employee who doesn't work in the mobile or tablets, etc divisions....

i think your analysis is largely what everyone in my team thinks.


Makh: I don't know why Microsoft is having trouble, they came out with some of the first tablet computers way back in the day. Clearly, their market research should be the oldest.


we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.
 
2013-07-28 12:26:08 PM

Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.   You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.


As I am currently posting from a Windows 8 Laptop, I can attest to this line in particular. I wanted a farking laptop computer - not a Tablet with a built in keyboard and USB capability. I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps". I hate when it opens up into a new entire-window app to view a photo or a movie, unless I specifically tell it to use VLC media player. I hate when it flips over to the Tiled view randomly and takes 10 seconds to go to the Start icon and then the Desktop tile. I hate having to install a third-party program to get a regular Start Menu. I hate how many hoops I have to jump through to remove passwords on user accounts, to add user accounts and to generally deal with user accounts. I hate when my cursor goes over the edge of the screen and menu's come up - I've got a shiatty mouse that sometimes freezes, then jumps. That's fine on my Windows 7 machine, but drives me nuts on Windows 8, and I hate that the only real fix is to buy a new farking mouse. I hate that it doesn't come with the basic games I've actually grown to love quite a bit - which is a rather petty hate, I know. But you add it all together and I'm not likely to buy a Windows Tablet in the future. Or any Windows products.

The Windows 8 interface may be fabulous on a Tablet, but my experience with a Windows 8 laptop has removed my like for Windows in general. I'm not likely to buy a new PC with a Windows 8 type OS on it, nor am I likely to get a Windows phone when my current Android phone bites the dust. If I'm going to be asked to learn how to run a new OS for my next computer then I'll get a brand new OS, like Linux or if I can afford it, go to Apple. Windows has lost me as an automatic customer.
 
2013-07-28 12:44:25 PM

Techhell: Windows has lost me as an automatic customer


There's millions of you out there, and it didn't have to be this way.  They threw the baby out with the bath water.  It's exactly like New Coke.
 
2013-07-28 12:54:06 PM

Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.


I also think not that good with leaving well enough alone and just giving people what they want. I can imagine there were more than a few cringing faces around MS when it was announced that Metro would be on the desktop.
 
2013-07-28 12:55:16 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Techhell: Windows has lost me as an automatic customer

There's millions of you out there, and it didn't have to be this way.  They threw the baby out with the bath water.  It's exactly like New Coke.


I'm sort of hoping it's exactly like New Coke, and we'll get a Windows Classic as Windows 9. I'm actually expecting M$ to double down on the Metro style for all of it's OS's, and losing a large part of the market in people like me; experienced enough to be able to adapt to a new OS but if we're going to be asked to learn a new OS... we're going to want a NEW OS.
 
2013-07-28 12:58:52 PM

Techhell: we're going to want a NEW OS.


If MS really had it together they'd just let people decide what UI they want to use, just make it an option the first time you run Windows and then have it be something you can change in a control panel any time thereafter. There's zero reason why they couldn't let people do that. Hell there's no reason they couldn't let people just customize the UI to their liking.
 
2013-07-28 01:19:51 PM

Techhell: I'm sort of hoping it's exactly like New Coke, and we'll get a Windows Classic as Windows 9. I'm actually expecting M$ to double down on the Metro style for all of it's OS's, and losing a large part of the market in people like me; experienced enough to be able to adapt to a new OS but if we're going to be asked to learn a new OS... we're going to want a NEW OS.


What will impact MS's decision I believe is corporate America.  Corp IT is just now moving to Win7 from XP having completely skipped Vista.  We don't want to have to support two radically different OS's and we don't upgrade all of the PC's at once.  Hell it's tough ensuring that all of the legacy apps support the new OS.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-07-28 01:51:17 PM

Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.


As long as you have Monkey Boy for a CEO there's little you'll be good at.  Except for maybe embrace, extend and extinguish.

(Seriously: Did anyone see Windows 8 before it shipped?!  That is a farking awful UI...)
 
2013-07-28 01:53:30 PM
Microsoft's focus on securing Instagram for Windows Phone

i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-28 01:57:07 PM

wee: Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.

As long as you have Monkey Boy for a CEO there's little you'll be good at.  Except for maybe embrace, extend and extinguish.

(Seriously: Did anyone see Windows 8 before it shipped?!  That is a farking awful UI...)


My bet is that there was someone at M$ who was in charge of screening the replies to the Beta testers of the Win8 UI, and anyone who said "This is awful!" found their input screened out.
 
2013-07-28 01:58:01 PM
So, they made too many, yet sold them at what, like $699?  These pretentious arseholes deserve to suffer.  They really don't understand that the movie 'antitrust' was about them do they?  You cant bully indy devs into working for you or being sued out of existence, then release things like windows ME and vista, and still expect people to swallow the one thing that kept your insufferable arse alive;  the familiarity of the GUI.

Microsoft is like an abusive husband.  They just aren't going to get it until they are alone and miserable.
 
2013-07-28 02:01:17 PM
Ignorant son a fa biatchs who pushed out the 'RT' model that without hacking it to be standard windows8, you can only install apps from the app store.

/Its just like the low cost Linux netbooks, that morons couldn't comprehend, all over again.
 
2013-07-28 02:08:24 PM

Shadowknight: the fact that they released an identical looking but intensely inferior Surface RT really confused the market.


What's confusing? I thought everyone knew the "RT" was short for "retard."

/What was confusing was using the same name as the big-ass table.
 
2013-07-28 02:08:30 PM

Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company. In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think. I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that. He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base. Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices. You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.


The sad thing is, a company with an 80% marketshare is desperately trying to follow a company with a 10% marketshare.

That said, Apple did post a gross profit higher than Microsoft last year, so maybe that is what has them freaking out.
 
2013-07-28 02:09:08 PM

Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.   Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.  You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

2) While the Surface Pro is by all accounts an awesome system that everyone I know that has one absolutely loves (see also:   Mike Krahulik of Penny Arcade's self review of the thing).  If I hadn't JUST bought a new ultrabook for editing my photos right before it was announced, I would have held out for that.  Everything I read says that while it's storage is limited (nothing that can't be fixed with a portable hard drive full of DNGs), it's more than powerful enough and has all the features of a Waccom visual tablet. for editing.

That said, the fact that they released an identical looking but intensely inferior Surface RT really confused the market.  The Pro runs a full version of Windows 8, whose "Metro" menu is infinitely less frustrating on a touch screen/tablet like device, and capable of running anything a normal laptop can run.  The RT, however, is like Microsoft's answer to the iPad, and can only run what you'd find on any mobile platform equivalent.  I think it confused the market, and people that would have heard about how awesome the Surface Pro is instead heard from a friend or a news site how stupid the RT was, and couldn't really tell the difference between the two.  And I can't really blame the average, non-techy person.  
3) Most ...


I think they would have been better off marketing it differently.  Make it 7.5, and sell it concurrently with 7.  Give people a choice, and continue it: 8 with 8.5, and so forth.
 
2013-07-28 02:11:28 PM

Techhell: Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.   You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

As I am currently posting from a Windows 8 Laptop, I can attest to this line in particular. I wanted a farking laptop computer - not a Tablet with a built in keyboard and USB capability. I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps". I hate when it opens up into a new entire-window app to view a photo or a movie, unless I specifically tell it to use VLC media player. I hate when it flips over to the Tiled view randomly and takes 10 seconds to go to the Start icon and then the Desktop tile. I hate having to install a third-party program to get a regular Start Menu. I hate how many hoops I have to jump through to remove passwords on user accounts, to add user accounts and to generally deal with user accounts. I hate when my cursor goes over the edge of the screen and menu's come up - I've got a shiatty mouse that sometimes freezes, then jumps. That's fine on my Windows 7 machine, but drives me nuts on Windows 8, and I hate that the only real fix is to buy a new farking mouse. I hate that it doesn't come with the basic games I've actually grown to love quite a bit - which is a rather petty hate, I know. But you add it all together and I'm not likely to buy a Windows Tablet in the future. Or any Windows products.

The Windows 8 inte ...


Ahhem. Stardock has you covered. Downloaded Stardock's Start8 and a couple of other apps, most notably one that forces full-screen apps to run just like every other app, and couldn't be happier. And I switched TO this from a Mac.
 
2013-07-28 02:15:04 PM
The most hilarious part is their announcement of bringing back the start menu but it just opens the Metro screen instead and not the classic start menu.. Maximum Trolling
 
2013-07-28 02:16:38 PM

Bravo Two: Techhell: Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.   You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

As I am currently posting from a Windows 8 Laptop, I can attest to this line in particular. I wanted a farking laptop computer - not a Tablet with a built in keyboard and USB capability. I hate Windows 8. I hate having to install "apps". I hate when it opens up into a new entire-window app to view a photo or a movie, unless I specifically tell it to use VLC media player. I hate when it flips over to the Tiled view randomly and takes 10 seconds to go to the Start icon and then the Desktop tile. I hate having to install a third-party program to get a regular Start Menu. I hate how many hoops I have to jump through to remove passwords on user accounts, to add user accounts and to generally deal with user accounts. I hate when my cursor goes over the edge of the screen and menu's come up - I've got a shiatty mouse that sometimes freezes, then jumps. That's fine on my Windows 7 machine, but drives me nuts on Windows 8, and I hate that the only real fix is to buy a new farking mouse. I hate that it doesn't come with the basic games I've actually grown to love quite a bit - which is a rather petty hate, I know. But you add it all together and I'm not likely to buy a Windows Tablet in the future. Or any Windows products.

The Wind ...


There are a ton of free ones.. I prefer this one:  http://www.classicshell.net/
 
2013-07-28 02:19:28 PM

styckx: There are a ton of free ones.. I prefer this one: http://www.classicshell.net/


Yeah, I just prefer the Stardock app bundle because I already owned it for WindowBlinds and Fences back on Win 7 on my Mac's bootcamp part.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:54 PM

Bravo Two: styckx: There are a ton of free ones.. I prefer this one: http://www.classicshell.net/

Yeah, I just prefer the Stardock app bundle because I already owned it for WindowBlinds and Fences back on Win 7 on my Mac's bootcamp part.


I'd love to know the revenue Stardock made on Start8..  It's like Microsoft just said "Here you go Stardock.. Free money"
 
2013-07-28 02:21:10 PM

Kazan: Shadowknight: I think their problem is multifold:

1) Ballmer wanted to become a "tablet and application" company.  In other words, he wanted to be Apple, which is a mistake I think.  I mean, if you want an Apple, you can already buy that, and they kind of have the market on that.  He wanted to get away from just being an operating system company, which I get, but unifying your device operation across platforms just made everyone angry on your established base.  Windows 8, for all the good it has, pisses off a lot of people with the lack of familiar desktop start menu in order to try to homogenize the experience with your portable devices.  You didn't really increase your mobile usage at the expense of irritating your traditional base.

2) While the Surface Pro is by all accounts an awesome system that everyone I know that has one absolutely loves (see also:   Mike Krahulik of Penny Arcade's self review of the thing).  If I hadn't JUST bought a new ultrabook for editing my photos right before it was announced, I would have held out for that.  Everything I read says that while it's storage is limited (nothing that can't be fixed with a portable hard drive full of DNGs), it's more than powerful enough and has all the features of a Waccom visual tablet. for editing.

That said, the fact that they released an identical looking but intensely inferior Surface RT really confused the market.  The Pro runs a full version of Windows 8, whose "Metro" menu is infinitely less frustrating on a touch screen/tablet like device, and capable of running anything a normal laptop can run.  The RT, however, is like Microsoft's answer to the iPad, and can only run what you'd find on any mobile platform equivalent.  I think it confused the market, and people that would have heard about how awesome the Surface Pro is instead heard from a friend or a news site how stupid the RT was, and couldn't really tell the difference between the two.  And I can't really blame the average, non-techy pers ...


I'm not going to pile on you for the Windows 8 fiasco, the underlying OS is great, and the Metro GUI is nice enough for tablets and phones, but we desktop users really, really, need Microsoft to listen to us and get back to the efficient desktop UI that Microsoft evolved and refined for 30 years.

As an enterprise developer (and somebody with apps in the mobile markets and also has over a decade of embedded systems experience), I understand the reasoning behind force-feeding its base the Metro "experience" - but it was a misguided failure to create a walled garden and universal ecosystem. Tablets and phones are not consoles, and those are not desktops... three different worlds require three different UIs.

/Words cannot express the wailing and gnashing of teeth by our sys admins over the latest Windows Server OSes.
 
2013-07-28 02:23:42 PM

styckx: Bravo Two: styckx: There are a ton of free ones.. I prefer this one: http://www.classicshell.net/

Yeah, I just prefer the Stardock app bundle because I already owned it for WindowBlinds and Fences back on Win 7 on my Mac's bootcamp part.

I'd love to know the revenue Stardock made on Start8..  It's like Microsoft just said "Here you go Stardock.. Free money"


yeah. I've actually gotten to where I like the Windows start page, with the appropriate tweaks. However, Fences 2 and ModernMix are necessary apps for Win8.
 
2013-07-28 02:24:51 PM

styckx: The most hilarious part is their announcement of bringing back the start menu but it just opens the Metro screen instead and not the classic start menu.. Maximum Trolling


Yup, just a terrible way for Microsoft to announce to the world that they have their ears firmly plugged, yelling " LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! LA LA LA"
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-07-28 02:26:27 PM

LesserEvil: the Metro GUI is nice enough for tablets and phones


No, it is not.  It's a farking retarded abomination on any device.

Every time I have to use Windows Server 2012 I think about updating my resume...
 
2013-07-28 02:30:39 PM
Again since last week. Sorry but fark Instagram. WP have Instance and Hipsamatic which Instgram 3rd party apps that are better than Instgram on other mobile OS's. They should focus on getting rid of the "Other" bug in WP and in W8 making the damn Start screen lock/pin to a second monitor when using dual monitors. The Surface RT should have been $249 with the touch or type cover from the farking get go.
 
2013-07-28 02:35:09 PM
Having used Win 8 for a while and now Win 8.1, I kind of like Metro now (even for desktop). With Surface RT I think they never really gave people enough compelling reason to buy one over an iPad. The people who would want Office on their tablet probably already had a laptop or could buy a Surface Pro, and these people also would need Outlook (which is part of the 8.1 update, but wasn't available in original Surface RT).
 
2013-07-28 02:35:52 PM

wee: No, it is not. It's a farking retarded abomination on any device.


I disagree. If they put Metro on devices slowly no one would complain e.g Xbox 360
 
2013-07-28 02:42:08 PM
Shadowknight:

And, let's face it, customer loyalty to them is pretty high among the Apple faithful.  They could announce the next iPhone would give you electric shocks every time in rings instead of vibrating, and a very large amount of their customers would laud it as revolutionary and burn another tribute to Steve Jobs.

A pretty good analysis until you got lazy or tired at the end there, and trotted out the old "Apple fans will buy anything" line. This lame propaganda comes straight from the marketing department of another company. Here's a hint: it's a company that's so bad at creating customer loyalty that they think there's something strange going on when people who bought an Apple product actually want to go back and buy another!
 
2013-07-28 02:53:50 PM
Has anyone figured a way to keep that annoying side menu on Windows 8 from sliding out randomly? There are days I want to throw my laptop through a wall for doing that. And Start8 doesn't help.
 
2013-07-28 02:57:37 PM
Does anyone know of a program that allows me to remap keyboard shortcuts in Windows? I hate the fact that some tasks are Ctrl+, some are Alt+, and some are Win+.
 
2013-07-28 02:58:03 PM

SCUBA_Archer: Has anyone figured a way to keep that annoying side menu on Windows 8 from sliding out randomly? There are days I want to throw my laptop through a wall for doing that. And Start8 doesn't help.


Are you serious ? You might want to save all your shiat and do a factory reset or a clean install.
 
2013-07-28 02:59:49 PM

bingethinker: Shadowknight:

And, let's face it, customer loyalty to them is pretty high among the Apple faithful.  They could announce the next iPhone would give you electric shocks every time in rings instead of vibrating, and a very large amount of their customers would laud it as revolutionary and burn another tribute to Steve Jobs.

A pretty good analysis until you got lazy or tired at the end there, and trotted out the old "Apple fans will buy anything" line. This lame propaganda comes straight from the marketing department of another company. Here's a hint: it's a company that's so bad at creating customer loyalty that they think there's something strange going on when people who bought an Apple product actually want to go back and buy another!


What do you mean "Apple fans will buy anything"?  Apple fans CAN'T buy anything - their credit cards are already maxxed out.
 
2013-07-28 03:05:20 PM
Look, a huge part of the problem is that a vast section of the market regards MS as wildly incompetent -- because they've never turned out a really good version of Windows. With every new version, they change things that weren't broken, fail to fix things that were broken, and add a ton of chrome and glass that no one particularly wanted.

Most of those customers kept buying Windows because they didn't want to try switching to Apple or Linux, which they didn't see as realistic, palatable alternatives. They hated MS, hated Windows every day, but figured they were stuck.

MS cannot lure those people to a new product that has competition that the customers will see as palatable. So they can't launch something into the tablet market and hope to capture them. A huge proportion of MS customers have no faith in MS. MS earned that position, and now they're suffering for it.

Believe me, I know a TON of people who will never 'upgrade' from XP. Never. They will jump to Apple or give in and do the work to switch to Mint or something rather than suffer through Windows 8. Windows 9, even if by some miracle it's decent, will probably arrive too late to grab those people. Win 3.1 was pretty good, and XP was pretty good, and they don't think MS will even top them -- because they think MS is generally going to turn out crap and claim it's cupcakes.

So MS is not going to sell them Surface tablets, no. They'll buy something else because there are attractive alternatives. IBM went through this a long time ago, and it's just plainly stupid that MS acts like they couldn't have seen it coming. Many people simply feel like they no longer have to buy MS products -- and they won't.
 
2013-07-28 03:05:47 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: SCUBA_Archer: Has anyone figured a way to keep that annoying side menu on Windows 8 from sliding out randomly? There are days I want to throw my laptop through a wall for doing that. And Start8 doesn't help.

Are you serious ? You might want to save all your shiat and do a factory reset or a clean install.


I've got the exact same problem; often it's my mouse that farks up, but regularly the right-side and bottom menus will pop out randomly. It's so common with my laptop that I've actually stopped noticing it and just move my mouse unconsciously when the menus pop out. It's part of my hatred for those damned pop-out menus.
 
2013-07-28 03:15:19 PM

wee: LesserEvil: the Metro GUI is nice enough for tablets and phones

No, it is not.  It's a farking retarded abomination on any device.

Every time I have to use Windows Server 2012 I think about updating my resume...


I have training coming up for win 2012. Not looking forward to it. Can't think of a single benefit from the metro ui on a freaking server. I don't even like short cuts on server dtops. Tiles are going to make my blood boil. But I'm still pissed off that I'm forced to have a Web browser on a server OS.
 
2013-07-28 03:17:07 PM

WhyteRaven74: Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.

I also think not that good with leaving well enough alone and just giving people what they want. I can imagine there were more than a few cringing faces around MS when it was announced that Metro would be on the desktop.


cringing? we were raging.

wee: Kazan: we're not good at "we're cool and hip". or marketing.

As long as you have Monkey Boy for a CEO there's little you'll be good at.  Except for maybe embrace, extend and extinguish.

(Seriously: Did anyone see Windows 8 before it shipped?!  That is a farking awful UI...)


on touch is a pretty nice UI. on anything else i hate it with the intensity of a thousand stars.

LesserEvil: /Words cannot express the wailing and gnashing of teeth by our sys admins over the latest Windows Server OSes.


just use powershell. again it is a bad UI on a great great upgrade. I work on Failover Clustering.
 
2013-07-28 03:20:59 PM
Every tablet that's gone up against the iPad for the same price has been a failure. Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and HTC have all found out the people with iPad money buy iPads*. Now Microsoft can be added to the list.

The only way to sell tablets is to be cheaper than the iPad. Amazon knows this and google knows this and they had sold container loads of tablets. If Microsoft had priced the entry RT at £300 and used it as a way of locking people into the Windows 8 ecosystem then they would have sold lots of them as well. Break even on the hardware and make the money from apps and phones as you can charge higher prices for phones as the price is hidden in the contract.


*only people with specialist demands like geeks will buy other tablets at iPad money and they are a tiny market.
 
2013-07-28 03:28:33 PM

wee: LesserEvil: the Metro GUI is nice enough for tablets and phones

No, it is not. It's a farking retarded abomination on any device.


On a phone Metro is good. The tiles idea works very well as a way to have information updated live onscreen without having to open the app. I think it works better than Andriods widgets and far ahead of iOS6. The only issue i have is not being able to set a wallpaper.

/Nokia Lumia, iPad and Windows 7 laptop
//Used to have a HTC Desire S
 
2013-07-28 03:30:02 PM

jso2897: bingethinker: Shadowknight:

And, let's face it, customer loyalty to them is pretty high among the Apple faithful.  They could announce the next iPhone would give you electric shocks every time in rings instead of vibrating, and a very large amount of their customers would laud it as revolutionary and burn another tribute to Steve Jobs.

A pretty good analysis until you got lazy or tired at the end there, and trotted out the old "Apple fans will buy anything" line. This lame propaganda comes straight from the marketing department of another company. Here's a hint: it's a company that's so bad at creating customer loyalty that they think there's something strange going on when people who bought an Apple product actually want to go back and buy another!

What do you mean "Apple fans will buy anything"?  Apple fans CAN'T buy anything - their credit cards are already maxxed out.


Sorry, this meme does not allow for reality. The iHaters aren't big on logic or common sense.
 
2013-07-28 03:34:52 PM

wee: LesserEvil: the Metro GUI is nice enough for tablets and phones

No, it is not.  It's a farking retarded abomination on any device.

Every time I have to use Windows Server 2012 I think about updating my resume...


*backhands wee*

Seriously. Enough whining about an interface change. If you can't manage the enlargement of some buttons or a slight change in UI paradigm, you don't deserve to be working in the IT/CS field. You just. farking. don't. Slide on your damn big boy pants.

That being said, they should have priced the Surface RT cheaper, and introduced a "mid-line" Surface based on the Atom processor at about $500-$700. My girlfriend just received one of the Surface RT's cousins, an Asus VivoTab RT, as a gift from her parents. After spending the better part of the last year trying to make her 2010-vintage Dell Studio laptop work again (she managed to crack the hinges, wear out a trackpad button, and drop a book on the "v" key... LOTS of hardware surgery on that unit), I'm glad she gets a dumbed-down version of Windows. No longer will I have to look at her "Programs and Features" list, ask her how (x) piece of malware got on the machine, and hear "I wanted to watch (y) show so I downloaded that from site (z)." Not only does she have the Windows Store (which has bulked up over the last few months), but the binaries for all of that crapware won't even run on the machine.

It's beautiful, really. Half-tempted to get my father to get one for my mother, who often has the same lack of pure common sense problems. Takes some responsibility off of my shoulders. If they had offered the RT tablets for the $350 they are now at the beginning, they'd have had a real success on their hands.
 
2013-07-28 03:35:58 PM
nor am I likely to get a Windows phone

my son loves his Windows phone and how it syncs with our PC and his XBox
 
2013-07-28 03:35:58 PM

Norfolking Chance: Every tablet that's gone up against the iPad for the same price has been a failure. Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and HTC have all found out the people with iPad money buy iPads*. Now Microsoft can be added to the list.

The only way to sell tablets is to be cheaper than the iPad. Amazon knows this and google knows this and they had sold container loads of tablets. If Microsoft had priced the entry RT at £300 and used it as a way of locking people into the Windows 8 ecosystem then they would have sold lots of them as well. Break even on the hardware and make the money from apps and phones as you can charge higher prices for phones as the price is hidden in the contract.


*only people with specialist demands like geeks will buy other tablets at iPad money and they are a tiny market.


You forgot to mention HP's Touchpad fiasco. Part of that was Leo Apotheker's own mental blockage with his hatred towards hardware, but in large part it was due to HP's delay in launching their cellular-based version (with GPS and 64GB) to get a bump from subsidized sales. The expectation was to match Apple's iPad sales numbers (laughable goal, really), and Leo put the kibash on it quickly - too quickly; it was clear it was doomed form the start.

Still, the lesson was there - nobody could compete with the iPad at the same price point with similar hardware. Little things, like SD slots and true USB ports also matter. Reality is that price matters the most. Apple fans are willing to spend an 60% price premium for the brand. They trust the build quality and service, and they have much deeper loyalty. What loyalty did HP have? They spent most of it by churning out lackluster printers with spotty quality, and creating an "economy" brand out of Compaq with the same quality issues, for a decade.

Except for the Zune Tattoo Guy, Microsoft doesn't have nearly the same fanatical fan base as Apple. Actually, "fanatical" is not how I'd describe even their most loyal users. They are more likely just used to the software and sticking with it - which is why Vista, and even more so, Win8 has pushed so many away. The base customers loyal to Microsoft don't like seeing things change drastically - mess with that aspect and they'll have no reason to stick around, particularly if there is something else that is more popular (as in, the iPad for tablet computing or the iPhone for mobile) obtainable for the same money or even less.

/Yes, I do work for HP... getting kick and all that.
 
2013-07-28 03:39:52 PM
Marine1: Enough whining about an interface change.

You don't really understand the concept of 'the customer', much less the point of 'the user'.
 
2013-07-28 03:43:37 PM

Norfolking Chance: Every tablet that's gone up against the iPad for the same price has been a failure. Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and HTC have all found out the people with iPad money buy iPads*. Now Microsoft can be added to the list.

The only way to sell tablets is to be cheaper than the iPad. Amazon knows this and google knows this and they had sold container loads of tablets. If Microsoft had priced the entry RT at £300 and used it as a way of locking people into the Windows 8 ecosystem then they would have sold lots of them as well. Break even on the hardware and make the money from apps and phones as you can charge higher prices for phones as the price is hidden in the contract.


*only people with specialist demands like geeks will buy other tablets at iPad money and they are a tiny market.

 
2013-07-28 03:46:15 PM

RandomAxe: Marine1: Enough whining about an interface change.

You don't really understand the concept of 'the customer', much less the point of 'the user'.


And they don't understand the concept of 'progress', much less 'development headaches'. They're the same people who will ask, 'Why do I need to upgrade my Windows XP laptop? It does everything I need just fine", then come to you whining about how it won't run the latest programs and is full of more security holes than Swiss cheese.

If Apple had introduced it, people would hail it as a major advancement. I've been using it on my desktop since launch day. There's nothing wrong with it. If you can figure out managing a computer from the CLI, you have the mental horsepower to adjust to Windows 8. If you don't, quit your job and start cleaning bathrooms at the local hourly-rate motel. I'm far from the most capable power user I know, and if I can figure it out as an undergrad in an IT program, anyone can.
 
2013-07-28 03:52:42 PM

RandomAxe: Marine1: Enough whining about an interface change.

You don't really understand the concept of 'the customer', much less the point of 'the user'.


Metro was tested on the "customer" in 2011 with the Xbox dash board update and it was no big OMG what is that
 
Displayed 50 of 148 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report