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(KTAR Phoenix)   The e-cigarette movemement keeps growing in popularity and there's nothing you anti-smoking health nuts can do about it   (ktar.com) divider line 248
    More: Interesting, electronic cigarette, cigarettes  
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15317 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 10:04 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-07-28 10:13:25 AM
15 votes:
I couldn't care less what smokers do to their own bodies. It's the smoke in the room, the stench permeating everything and the fact that smokers think it's okay to toss their used butts anywhere they please that pisses me off.
2013-07-28 07:10:56 AM
11 votes:
So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.
2013-07-28 10:21:18 AM
9 votes:
Militant anti-smokers are bigger douches than smokers.

Cancer beats righteous indignation every time.
2013-07-28 10:57:14 AM
8 votes:

sendtodave: Militant anti-smokers are bigger douches than smokers.


The only thing worse are Militant Ex-smokers
2013-07-28 10:14:53 AM
8 votes:

Aarontology: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

The juices for them are nitoctine in a polypropylene gylcol or vegetable glycol suspension with flavor additives, so aside from the nicotine, it's not terribly different than inhaling steam from a cooking pot on a stove. The glycol can be dangerous, but only in very large amounts.


This is so.

And while there ARE some particulates in the vapor which, quite frankly, aren't exactly good for you, they're roughly 2+ microns in size whereas regular cigarette smoke are .1 or smaller. Of course, that's part of why people have a harder time with e-cigs; Regular smoke gets nicotine to your system within a matter of seconds, while vapor absorbs much more slowly, generally not giving you that rush.

I went over to them in February after 20+ years of smoking, and haven't looked back. Felt better within two weeks. Now I make my own e-juice and have gotten it down to a very low nicotine level. By the end of the summer, I'll be down to zero nicotine and will stop using them altogether. Even with all the supplies I've purchased, the cost per month has been half what I spent on smokes. They taste better, too, and don't leave me smelling like crap, which had the upshot of my girlfriend snogging me more often. Which I fully support.

web.mit.edu
2013-07-28 07:05:38 AM
8 votes:
Why would health nuts, or anyone, give a crap?
2013-07-28 10:15:05 AM
6 votes:
e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.
2013-07-28 09:11:34 AM
6 votes:
Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.
2013-07-28 01:48:24 PM
5 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: //find the anti-smoking crowd 1000x more annoying than the smokers


This line is getting tired.  If this thread is any indication, the overwhelming majority of anti-smoking people are being perfectly reasonable, and supporting e-cigs for the exact reason that smokers try to pretend they don't:  Most people really don't care what you do with your body as long as it isn't socially aggressive.  Cigarettes stink, they're harmful to others in enclosed spaces, and they account for a staggering amount of litter.  There are numerous rational reasons to want to ban or confine that behavior to places where it can't affect others.  There are very few, if any, compelling reasons to be against e-cigs.

Basically, the e-cig debate shows just how few people have the "I just want to control you" mindset that many smokers have always tried to paint as the main reason for the anti-smoking sentiment.
2013-07-28 12:25:20 PM
5 votes:

AirForceVet: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Mmmm, emitting a vapor that contains a known drug that has side effects? Yeah, I want that floating around me in an enclosed room. Piss off, addicts.

You should do what heroin addicts do and shoot up quietly in the bathroom stalls or justwear a farkin' patch. Enough with the oral fixations.


Ya know, a person with an oral fixation is far FAR preferable to an asshole with an authoritarian complex.

Just saying, mind your own business Nancy, no one is hurting you.  The only thing you're going to get from e-cig vapor is a mighty case of the vapors.  So go lay down on your fainting couch in a corner somewhere and STFU.
2013-07-29 12:27:43 PM
4 votes:

AirForceVet: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Mmmm, emitting a vapor that contains a known drug that has side effects? Yeah, I want that floating around me in an enclosed room. Piss off, addicts.

You should do what heroin addicts do and shoot up quietly in the bathroom stalls or justwear a farkin' patch. Enough with the oral fixations.


Go suck on your exhaust pipe.
2013-07-28 12:02:20 PM
4 votes:

Jesus Farking Christ: Lot of angry, self-righteous farkers in here.  Someone else posted that this is about punishing smokers, and after this thread, I am inclined to agree.

e-cigs are saving my life currently.  I'm doing a combination of wellbutrin and e-cigarettes.  I've switched over to cartridges that have no nicotine in them.  I've not had a cigarette in a month.  I smoked Camel Wides a pack a day for almost 17 years.  I'm never going back.  I feel better than I've felt in a long time.  My energy levels are up, I'm thinking clearer, and I'm not harming myself or anyone else for the first time in a while.

So please, with all due respect, back the fark off.


That's all it's ever been about...punishing smokers.

E cigs leave no butts, have no smoke, vapor is negligible to those around.  All the things you guys complain about.  But you're so self righteous that you can't see this is a good thing.
2013-07-28 11:43:38 AM
4 votes:
I wonder what the world would be like if all the people biatching about ecigs put their energy into doing something about diesel soot.
2013-07-28 11:25:15 AM
4 votes:

Saberus Terras: Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.


From personal experience, most e-cig users use the same propriety and protocol that goes along with cigs.  You don't do it in a non-smoker's home, you don't do it in a public place and you don't do it in a place labeled as 'non-smoking.'  Since they're all ex-smokers, it's not like it's a great change in their behavior at all.  I've never seen a e-cig user get upset about not being able to use a vape in a place where they've never been able to smoke before.
2013-07-28 11:19:49 AM
4 votes:

vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.


Are they out of their farking minds?  4 days to quit?  4 days?  I mean, I could understand 30-90 days...but 4 days?  4 days to quit using what is probably the most addictive substance most people will encounter in their life.  I am going to guess that zero support was offered here too.

That is really unacceptable.
2013-07-28 11:15:12 AM
4 votes:

AirForceVet: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Mmmm, emitting a vapor that contains a known drug that has side effects? Yeah, I want that floating around me in an enclosed room. Piss off, addicts.

You should do what heroin addicts do and shoot up quietly in the bathroom stalls or justwear a farkin' patch. Enough with the oral fixations.


Nicotine alone is about on par with caffeine in terms of how bad for you it is. Vapor dissipates rapidly upon exhale, and depending on how long it was held in, barely any noticeable vapor at all. Even if you were to walk straight into a vapor cloud, you won't be inhaling formaldehyde, arsenic, cyanide, and a whole host of random carcinogens that are present in cigarette smoke, and it's usually odorless to boot.

Vaping has helped people quit a disgusting habit, and it's far less offensive. In short, quit your biatching and mind your own goddamn business.
2013-07-28 10:57:40 AM
4 votes:
Finally got an old friend to quit by pushing her to these.  She no longer smells nor tastes like an ashtray, so there's my benefit, and she feels a ton better and is getting out more, now that she has energy again.

I'm bothered by the fact that so many are quick to lump E-cigs in with cigarettes even though they're entirely different from each other.
2013-07-28 10:41:21 AM
4 votes:
We figured out (read: we found a website that explained) how to modify them for alternate use. It's made the last few concerts more fun and paranoia-free.

Now to work on a sonic screwdriver mod ...
2013-07-28 10:40:56 AM
4 votes:
Wouldn't nicotine be in suspension in the vapor coming off e-cigs? It is a poison in strong enough doses. Nicotine can be used as a pesticide. Would it be okay for someone to spray bug killer everywhere they want just because it's not smoke?
2013-07-28 02:28:09 PM
3 votes:
www.takeoverworld.info
2013-07-28 02:07:34 PM
3 votes:
I know I'm pretty late to the party, but there are a couple of facts not on the table yet: (at least not that I've seen)

Vicotine vaporizers are prescribed for cigarette smokers in some hospitals.  When the wife was in the hospital back in December, they offered her a patch or a vaporizer.   They allowed her to use her own.   We were using the Green-Smoke brand at the time, but have since moved on to one that lets us mix our own juice.  Yes, she was allowed to use it in the hospital room, even though it was a double room with another patient.

Someone up thread posted link (http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/scienceresearch/ucm173250.pdf) to an fda release about the contents of the vapor from e-cigs.    The keypart in that report for this discussion is:

"Screening for the possible tobacco specific impurities cotinine, nicotine-N-oxide, nornicotine, anabasine and myosmine was negative. β-Nicotyrine was detected in all Njoy cartridges but was not detected in the Smoking
Everywhere cartridges. "

What that means is that the toxins normally present in cigarette smoke or tobacco were not present.  Only nicotine was present.

Another fantastically detailed and thorough analysis of not only the chemistry of e-cigs, but the political, social and health aspects is from the American Association of Public Health Physicians, Tobacco Control Task Force.  This report does a good job of deconstructing the propaganda and misinformation being floated by certain lobbying and less than honest interested parties.  It's long, but well worth the read:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FDA-2010-P-0095-0001
2013-07-28 01:48:27 PM
3 votes:
The hate towards E-Cigs is being spread by the tobacco industry as well as the government that enjoys the tax revenue from them.  Only expect it to get worse as they spread ridiculous claims and lies about how e-cigs are just as bad as smokes and puffing on anything, even mimicking the smokers motion with a straw should have the same penalties and effects as smoking.  They will become more vicious as more people move their money to non lethal forms on the way to quitting altogether. It will be easy because the brain dead mentality of the general population will take on any cause thrown on them without question pitting people against their friend/neighbors all in the name of corporate profit/ government tax revenue.
2013-07-28 12:00:48 PM
3 votes:

Jesus Farking Christ: Lot of angry, self-righteous farkers in here.  Someone else posted that this is about punishing smokers, and after this thread, I am inclined to agree.

e-cigs are saving my life currently.  I'm doing a combination of wellbutrin and e-cigarettes.  I've switched over to cartridges that have no nicotine in them.  I've not had a cigarette in a month.  I smoked Camel Wides a pack a day for almost 17 years.  I'm never going back.  I feel better than I've felt in a long time.  My energy levels are up, I'm thinking clearer, and I'm not harming myself or anyone else for the first time in a while.

So please, with all due respect, back the fark off.


Non-smoker here.  Congrats and well done.  Don't let the retards and trolls mess with your head.
2013-07-28 11:58:34 AM
3 votes:
Lot of angry, self-righteous farkers in here.  Someone else posted that this is about punishing smokers, and after this thread, I am inclined to agree.

e-cigs are saving my life currently.  I'm doing a combination of wellbutrin and e-cigarettes.  I've switched over to cartridges that have no nicotine in them.  I've not had a cigarette in a month.  I smoked Camel Wides a pack a day for almost 17 years.  I'm never going back.  I feel better than I've felt in a long time.  My energy levels are up, I'm thinking clearer, and I'm not harming myself or anyone else for the first time in a while.

So please, with all due respect, back the fark off.
2013-07-28 11:47:45 AM
3 votes:
Anyone who wants to ban these isn't a health nut.  They're a moran.

This removes all negative effects of smoking on others, while being vastly less bad for actual smokers.

It's like banning a form of alcohol that prevents drunk driving.
2013-07-28 11:38:27 AM
3 votes:

AirForceVet: DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.


Are you this upset about perfume, potpourri, scented candles, air freshener, surface cleaners, microwaved popcorn etc?  Unless you are, you really have no business whining.
2013-07-28 11:37:50 AM
3 votes:
20+ years smoker.  Only thing EVER that has helped me quit.  Down to lowest nicotine, next step is no nicotine.  They only have a faint scent of whatever flavor you choose.

Anti-smokers are as awful as anti-abortion Christians.

My Vea and a cuppa coffee.
imageshack.us
2013-07-28 11:29:38 AM
3 votes:

Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.


When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.
2013-07-28 11:21:05 AM
3 votes:
Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.
2013-07-28 10:38:23 AM
3 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: As long as they don't smell and don't fark up my health, have at it. I hate smokers because of what it does to me, not you. I don't care if addicts die from their addiction as long as they take no one with them.


They don't smell, you don't even notice someone is using one around you. I mean, right next to you, even.  So much better to be around (I can't stand being around cigarettes, if I am around people smoking long enough, I'll end up feeling like I have a hangover the next day, even without having a drink.  It just disagrees with me.)

I think people should be encouraged to use these, not pushing to stop/limit the use of them. Otherwise, what's the incentive to use something that doesn't affect other people, if they still have to leave everywhere they go before they use it?
2013-07-28 10:31:00 AM
3 votes:

Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.


Yeah, the people that want to ban these too have shown their true colors. It is more of a "Stop liking things that I don't like" than a health issue. I do have to wonder how they're going to know you've been using an e-cig in a rental car or hotel room though. I do it, I just make sure to not use juice that has a strong tobacco scent to it and don't take a drag off of the thing within the last few miles before dropping the rental car off, it has never been an issue.

I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it. Took two drags and threw it in the fire. I'm done with regular smokes thanks to my e-cig, and I'm very happy with that. No more hacking cough, no more smelling like an ashtray (I can't believe I used to smell like that!) and no more yellow fingers.
2013-07-28 10:23:03 AM
3 votes:
As long as they don't smell and don't fark up my health, have at it. I hate smokers because of what it does to me, not you. I don't care if addicts die from their addiction as long as they take no one with them.
2013-07-28 08:53:42 AM
3 votes:
I will never get my mom to stop smoking.  Never mind she's already having coughing fits that puts my passed grandmother's death bed rattles to shame, she just "enjoys it" too much to quit.  But, at the very least I wish she would go with an e-cig.  I've been visiting the families the last month (we live in Spain, but I bring the kids home for the summer to see the grandparents) and all of my clothes smell like stale, nasty smoke.  My eyes are constantly burning.  My sinuses are so clogged up with black, tar-like snot that I can hardly breath.

I may never get her to stop destroying her own health, but maybe it's not too much to ask for her to stop destroying ours or stenching up the place.
2013-07-28 05:29:41 AM
3 votes:
Go ahead smokers, ignore your health.  That leaves more health for the rest of us.
2013-07-29 09:12:47 AM
2 votes:

elementcircle: Saberus Terras: Saberus Terras

I would have just picked up my shiat and walked out of the restaurant if the manager talked to me like that.


Nah, I shut him up by showing him my still open wounds where I had the chest tubes after my surgery, and offered the false excuse that she's trying to quit before I 'lost the other lung'.  Still didn't use the thing, she was too nervous.

Shoulda pushed for a gratuity, but I felt I'd been enough of a dick to them.
2013-07-28 10:57:00 PM
2 votes:
We've been using e-cigs for about six months now, and aside from falling off the wagon about three times in six months, we've quit smoking. That includes someone with emphysema who is feeling much better and getting lung function back from what had been at 30%. All of us had been smoking for 20+ years, and for the most part we don't miss it. All of us had tried chantix and every other form of smoking cessation device to no avail. The e-cigs provide the sensation of smoking without the health risk. We put away the ashtrays and nothing smells like smoke anymore. It costs a fraction of what cigarettes do once you calculate the price of e-juice and the initial investment in a kit.

For anyone who says that they aren't sure it's completely safe, it's about exactly as safe as nicotine gum and the patch, and nobody is saying that we should ban them because they contain nicotine. I think that the main reason anyone wants to ban e-cigs is because they have a puritan love of suffering, and they want people quitting to be miserable. E-cigarettes are without question much healthier than tobacco no matter how you slice it, and about as likely to cause cancer as the patch is.
2013-07-28 09:44:25 PM
2 votes:
Fine. If you don't want nicotine in your body, then you no longer get to eat tomatoes, peppers, and a whole host of other veggies.
2013-07-28 06:49:23 PM
2 votes:

HighZoolander: I'm not sure that's a close enough analogy - since there are far more smokers than bars/bands. Maybe closer to make the comparison that bars aren't allowed operate in residential neighborhoods because of the noise/traffic. Whatever analogy floats your boat, but the point is that if something is a nuisance, it's not unreasonable to restrict it to the point that it's no longer a nuisance (and/or a reasonable compromise can be found).

I think the alcohol thing has as much to do with public drunkenness - not because of the drunk, but because drunk people are usually loud and out of control, and the ban is used to prevent problems that everyone has seen before and is sick of dealing with.

I'd be surprised if there are really so many miserable people who just get off on controlling other people's habits, that sounds to me like a myth perpetuated by rude smokers to help them justify doing whatever they want.


I was referring more to the fact that many cities have instituted ordinances that you can't smoke in bars, and usually the people who are vocally trying to put them in place are people that never even go to bars in the first place. As far as the nuisance part, there isn't much chance of a reasonable compromise with the militant anti smokers, and they are the ones that will be bringing the issue up.

As far as drunkness, the end result is the same. And whatever the reason is its just an excuse used for the gov't to step in, assume control and make money off fines, jail time, etc, for something that really isnt a problem for most.

There may be more miserable people than you think, especially since nowadays people don't seem to feel they should have to deal with any behavior they don't want to, and whining about anything has been empowered, instead of just dealing with problems and making allowances for others.  If they banned every behavior I found annoying... well things would be quite different. The anti smokers that campaign are the main culprits, though, and they are very vocal and relentless. Most normal people really aren't that concerned with smoking one way or the other, and unfortunately are apathetic about the gov't sticking its nose into another area.
2013-07-28 06:04:53 PM
2 votes:

ElizaDoolittle: gfid: ColdFusion: Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here.  I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

You sound poor - and black.  Pall Mall Menthols?  Really?

You sound like an arse.   You sound poor - and black. Really? Was there any reason to inject race into this conversation?


He got a reaction out of you, that's all he was going for.
2013-07-28 05:24:40 PM
2 votes:

brantgoose: Why don't you just drop smoking and take up injecting heroin directly into your veins?

The tobacco industry doesn't care about tobacco. It's just a delvery-system for a drug. They don't care about the drug either. Any old drug will do, as long as it is addictive. Nicotene is addictive and comes from a plant that can be grown cheaply and picked by the nearest thing to slaves that the governments of Southern States will allow (which is wage-slaves--it took a Civil War but they finally clicked to the idea that wage-slaves and debt-farmers are cheaper than plantations and the other kind of slaves).

In short, everybody, including the e-cigarette manufacturers know and admit that e-cigarettes are the moral equivalent of crack pipes.

ONLY THE DRUGS THAT ARE PROFITABLE TO CORPORATIONS AND OUR MASTERS WHO OWN THEM AND RUN THEM MAY BE ALLOWED.

Once you get right down to brass tacks, tobacco is just crack for the people who used to be sold opium by the US government and the British Crown.

Remember this, smokers: you have nothing to lose but your chain-smoking. All the "cool" and "pleasure" has been sucked out of smoking and you now are just one tiny bit ahead of druggies shooting up--you don't have to search for an uncollapsed vein.


E-ciggs are crack pipes? Smokers are one notch below heroin addicts? Your one of the few people I would blow my smoke right in the face and laugh. Farking idiot.
2013-07-28 02:30:56 PM
2 votes:

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


The statists howled at the idea that junk food, fatty food, unhealthy food, whatever you want to call, was next after smoking.  Here werare with many of the exact same things done to those things that were done to smoking.

It all comes down to boundaries, and the one thing many of these "health advocates" do not understand is boundaries.  Since intentions and/or ends justify means, anything that achieves their goal is OK.

No doubt we'll some hue and cry about flavored vodkas eventually.  Bacon will be on the list given its popularity everywhere.  I'm waiting for them to start looking at using the connected nature of most video games to limit how long they can be played.
2013-07-28 01:54:49 PM
2 votes:

Ral: It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps. It's all about controlling people.


Nobody every blew a cloud of sodomy in my face as I was minding my own business on the sidewalk so I really don't give a shait about that, but you just go ahead and make up whatever harebraned crap makes you feel superior, I guess.
2013-07-28 01:43:26 PM
2 votes:
I don't have a problem with e-cigs, if the manufacturers are producing a safe product.  Now, I've heard that they come in flavors, and I am not real thrilled about the thought of having cheap cherry and vanilla smells in the place where I am trying to eat.  That would be as annoying as the leather bag looking smokers who try to drown out the nasty smoking smell by wearing way too much cheap perfume.
2013-07-28 01:29:32 PM
2 votes:

AirForceVet: Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)


Excuse me? We brought the facts, you brought the ad-hominem. My turn: you're an ignorant farking douchenozzle; if you're going to look down your nose at us, at least have a reason why. Yes, we developed a nasty habit, but here's a solution that has worked for us and is believed by many experts to be safer, and my most of the population to be less obnoxious.

Get a life dude, and let us live ours.
2013-07-28 01:28:08 PM
2 votes:

AirForceVet: Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)


So you're saying that if a study came out tomorrow that stated very clearly that e-cigs posed practically 0 health risk to anyone around the smoker, let alone the smoker themself, you'd rescend this opinion? Because I doubt it. Although now I am curious: do you feel this way about everything? Or just e-cigs? Do you slap bottles of cleaning solution out of a janitor's hand because someone might potentially be allergic to whatever is inside? Do you demand that all of the particle-board in your work places, restaurants, etc. be torn out and replaced with something that doesn't contain formaldehyde? How far do you take this attitude of protecting others from harm, regardless of how finite or unlikely that harm must be? Honest question, since the thought of someone exhaling more water vapor than usual is terrifying to you.
2013-07-28 01:25:36 PM
2 votes:

AirForceVet: Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)


Mine are nic free. And I bet you've unknowingly inhaled unfathomable micrograms of of ecig vapor with no ill effect. The exhaled byproduct is water vapor. The impact on the air you breathe is so negligilble, that its likely unmeasurable.

I believe the lives being saved by these devices far far far out weighs the indulgence of your hypochondria and authoritarianism. And if you're that sensitive to things in the air, you likely already live in a plastic bubble, pussy.
2013-07-28 12:58:46 PM
2 votes:

supayoda: PC LOAD LETTER: As long as they don't smell and don't fark up my health, have at it. I hate smokers because of what it does to me, not you. I don't care if addicts die from their addiction as long as they take no one with them.

This, pretty much. I'm sure it's better than regular cigs, but I would like to know if whatever vapor is being expelled is still going to be in any way harmful to those around you who might inhale it. Yeah, the smell of a regular cig is annoying, but pleasant-smelling poison isn't any better than stinky poison. Outside of that, I don't care. Put whatever you want in your body so long as I don't have to participate.


The cancer causing agents in second-hand smoke are hundreds of other chemicals and additives that have nothing to do with nicotine.

Plus, the vapor itself dissipates to negligible levels less than 5 feet from the point of exhalation.

Lastly, the only thing in the vapor of note is Vegetable Glycerin.

In short, an e-cig user could blow vapor in your face for hours and there'd be no negative consequences, other than the user's bad breath being in your grill for hours.
2013-07-28 12:57:50 PM
2 votes:
First of all: Second hand smoke is bullshiat, so unless you're a smoker yourself, this really doesn't affect you as much as you'd think. If something as harmful as real cigarette smoke can't do a passer-by harm, what hope does a nicotine vapor have of harming someone else?

Second of all: I don't lie to anyone when they ask me if my e-cig is healthier. I have always told people straight up that there's no research or studies to confirm or deny that e-cigs are healthier than real cigs. I also tell them that they aren't FDA approved, so for all we know I'm inhaling a vapor that's a million times worse for me than a Marlboro. Or I could be inhaling something that has all the health risks of a stick of celery.

/I'm hoping they come out with some studies soon, though
//preferably some no bullshiat studies that aren't funded by Phillip-Morris
2013-07-28 12:39:18 PM
2 votes:
There's a lot of misconceptions by people who dont vape about what is in the liquid... I've even had someone indignantly tell me they were allergic; you can imagine my incredulity when I told them it was Vegetable Glycerin and if they were rocking an allergy to that, they weren't long for this world. Some people just want attention...


BUT there is a problem with people vaping mystery liquid. I get my juice at a shop where anyone can watch them make it. They list the ingredients on every bottle.

Hell, the stuff is stone simple, you can just make it yourself... but like most conveniences, people are willing to pay. Just know where you're getting your stuff. This is basic, common sense, that people apply rigorously to everything else. You wouldn't buy a can of soda that doesn't have ingredients listed on it... I don't know why you wouldn't police to the same level something you're going to breath.

Not to shill, but I'm a big fan of The Vapor Trail, but for full fairness there's like 3-6 other Vape shops in my city... so yeah.
2013-07-28 12:33:35 PM
2 votes:

FuzedBox: Saberus Terras: Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.

It's kind of hard to create propaganda against vaping; vapor is proven to be healthier than smoke, the liquid only contains FDA approved falvoring, PG (propylene glycol; used in asthma inhalers), VG (vegetable glycerin; can be mixed in variable ratios to PG. I prefer no VG), and a choice of nicotine content upon purchase.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard the Blu is now partnered with RJ Reynolds. If anything, big tobacco wants in.


Blu was bought out by Lorillard, but yeah, I think the big boys want in.
2013-07-28 12:31:40 PM
2 votes:

meanmutton: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

It's not. They still contain the same carcinogens, per the FDA.


Proof that you are a liar
2013-07-28 12:29:25 PM
2 votes:

meanmutton: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

It's not. They still contain the same carcinogens, per the FDA.


You're a farking moron.
2013-07-28 12:29:17 PM
2 votes:

meanmutton: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

It's not. They still contain the same carcinogens, per the FDA.


You are a liar.
2013-07-28 12:23:30 PM
2 votes:

LittleSmitty: My company recently went with a no smoking policy. As in zero tolerance, E-cigs included. They were letting people smoke the e-cigs inside prior to the no smoking policy. Now there is no smoking on the property, period.

This of course drives the smokers nuts. They planned on getting in their cars and driving around the block on breaks and at lunch. Much to their chagrin, the company also instituted two additional policies. No leaving the property. They can get away with this because they started paying us for our lunch break, so no leaving the property when you are on the clock. The other policy is no going outside without managerial permission. You can go get something from your car, but the supervisor has to OK it and will watch you.

So now they hide their E-cigs and sneak around the plant, smoking behind various equipment. It's funny to watch


I'm not a smoker and I hate smoke in my face but holy shiat who would want to work for that kind of company? All of the factories and hospitals in my town are switching to no smoking on the property- but all of the workers are allowed to walk off the property and smoke on breaks. Plus the hospitals (maybe factories too, but I'm not sure) offered real smoking cessation programs.

Congratulations to all the quitters and I don't hate you to all of the smokers- Christ we all have bad habits and as long as you aren't flicking butts everywhere (which I don't really notice anymore now that there are butt disposal things everywhere) yours don't affect me.
2013-07-28 12:22:45 PM
2 votes:

gfid: Uranus Is Huge!: Reputable brands list their ingredients. Many people also mix their own.

Citation needed.

Really, just give us one example.  All the flavored e-liquids?  They only say how much nicotine is in them and whether it's PG or VG from what I've seen.  I suggested to one supplier that they might want to offer a non-flavored e-juice.  They seemed surprised.  WTF do they think people are using it for?  I'd bet most of us are just nicotine junkies and could give a flying fark about the taste which is probably mostly benzene anyway.


You haven't looked hard enough; it's very easy to find unflavored PG and nicotine base. Also, the more reputable vendors DO label their ingredients.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-07-28 12:19:24 PM
2 votes:

sparrow794: DubyaHater: I don't know much about the e-cigs and I certainly DNRTFA. I would think an e-cig habit is rather cost prohibitive. My guess is a pack of e-cigs cost 10x a pack of cigarettes.

Your guess is incredibly wrong.  I spend half as much on e-cigs as I did on cigarettes; and I live in an area of the country where cigarettes are fairly inexpensive.

katerbug72: vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.

Well, that's bullshiat. Why lump e-cigs in there?

Greed.  That, and nicotine is still poison.

Barfmaker: Why would health nuts, or anyone, give a crap?

The argument I've seen is that behaviorally, use of an e-cig is similar to an actual cigarette; and that somehow by allowing or condoning e-cig use it subconsciously sends a message that actual smoking is ok as well.

There is a fine argument to be made here.  E-cigs are a tool to help smokers quit smoking.  It's the only thing that has worked for me.  But that's the point, that you're supposed to ultimately quit altogether.  If you're using it as a replacement for tobacco, then you still have a problem.  It is less dangerous to yourself and others than smoking, but vaping is still unhealthy at its core.  Nicotine is not good for you in any way, shape, or form.  You can step down to a point where the 'juice' you are vaping has no nicotine in it, but even then, any activity done to excess is likely a bad thing.  All that being said, the idea that vaping must be treated exactly like actual smoking is incredibly ignorant.  It is not smoking.  If you put a bunch of smokers in a tiny room, and they all light up, eventually the ...


Alcohol is a poison and I don't think they included drinkers when they passed out that memo.
2013-07-28 12:14:36 PM
2 votes:

vygramul: FuzedBox: the liquid only contains FDA approved falvoring

Nope

I can tell you why they decided to use DEG, too - it acts as a solvent. Massengill discovered that DEG is great for making liquid solutions of Sulfanilamide, which would be great, if DEG didn't cause kidney failure.

I bet that's exactly why the e-cigarette manufacturer used it - they wanted a specific flavor they couldn't suspend in other solutions and figured that since they were unregulated, no one would know.

I have no problem with e-cigs, but the people who make just about any product are NOT your friend and WILL get away with what they can.


You're right... I should have specified: The premium US made juices (such as Halo, Johnson Creek, and Volcano) use FDA approved flavoring, but that doesn't stop chinese manufacturers such as Dekang from not using them.
2013-07-28 12:02:40 PM
2 votes:

gfid: Infernalist: gfid: buzzcut73: I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it.

I've used e-cigs for over a year.  I have a few no-name brand cigs  from a marketing experiment left over and I farking love those things.  e-cigs suck.  Still, not surprised that you didn't like Marlboro Lights - worst cigarette ever.

Yeah, the no-name cigarettes are no-name.  They mailed them to me and they came in a plain white box with no label.  I'm going to read the rest of this thread and then step outside to smoke one of them and I'm sure I'll love it.

Darwinism at its finest.

Meh - I don't think one more cigarette will kill me.  I used to smoke 2 packs a day and I'm not dead yet.  It takes a long time and even then most smokers don't die from cigarette-related problems.

I might not even smoke that real cigarette.  I'm actually getting hungry now.  I'll probably eat something horribly unhealthy while I puff on my e-cig which probably contains the worst carcinogens man has yet to identify.


I think you're under the impression that only emphysema/COPD and lung cancer are cig related. Cardiovascular disease and peripheral vascular disease are also strongly related to not only smoking but current smoking history. It is extremely rare for a patient to come to the OR for a fem-pop bypass (for peripheral vascular disease) and not have them be a smoker. Probably about 75% of people who come in for non valvular heart operations are also smokers. Beyond that, their rate of perioperative complications for other types of surgeries is incredibly high and ranges from poor wound healing to increase infection to inability to extubate after surgery due to poor lung function.

I'm not mentioning the cancers because yes, they are relatively rare. So yes, even if you have 100x the chance of getting this or that cancer, the chances are still fairly low that you'll get something to begin with. That being said, while I have seen a few lung cancers in non-smokers, I don't think I've ever seen a bladder cancer in a non-smoker in my six years of clinical experience so far.

I don't wish smokers badly. I do feel traditional cig smokers should be stigmatized because their habits are inconsiderate of others as well as harmful to themselves. But stigmatized to me is just making it more uncomfortable for you to smoke and informing kids of what a filthy habit you have. I don't propose being rude, crass, or denying you care. It pains me to see people say "well, I'm going to die of something" and not consider that this "something" would otherwise have killed you ten or fifteen years later in your sleep after five months of NOT being in the hospital. One of the reasons why I decided not to do an ICU fellowship after finishing my anesthesiology training was because I hate to see people die slowly. And you see that most often in people with bad emphysema whether it's their primary reason for admission, or if it's a co-morbidity and they were in the ICU after a heart operation or a vascular procedure. It's absolutely awful, and I would not wish that on anybody, even a sarcastic farker like you.
2013-07-28 11:59:57 AM
2 votes:

fnordest: Where does losing the habit of the "ritual" come into play for the quitters?


Once you drop your nicotine level to zero, your brain will start losing the connection between the act of smoking and behavior reinforcing chemical release.  You shouldn't have to quit at that point, you'll just start forgetting to smoke.
2013-07-28 11:59:47 AM
2 votes:

gfid: Saberus Terras: Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

I have no problem with that.  Their restaurant, their rules.  And just because some company puts something on their product doesn't mean it carries the weight of law.

This is what really gets me about the e-cig fanatics.  "Oh, it's just water vapor".  Oh really?  Then why is it delivering nicotine too?  And how do you know it's not also delivering a thousand other chemicals directly to your lungs?

"Well, the company who makes them said so!"


Because a lot of people out there aren't farking retarded and understand how to take samples of something and learn what exactly is in it.
2013-07-28 11:56:32 AM
2 votes:
The only problem I can think of is that the glycerol that's used in the liquid inserts can aggravate users' mucous membranes.  And before you say, "don't regular cigarettes do that, too?", the answer is yes, but I've had a few patients that switched to e-cigs complain that they get a burning sensation in their esophagus that they didn't get with regular cigs, that's very likely caused by the vaporized glycerol.

That being said, if these really only affect the individual using it, and has no effect on people around them, then they are grown-ass adults, and they can make their own decisions about that.
2013-07-28 11:55:10 AM
2 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: Infernalist: gfid: Infernalist: gfid: buzzcut73: I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it.

I've used e-cigs for over a year.  I have a few no-name brand cigs  from a marketing experiment left over and I farking love those things.  e-cigs suck.  Still, not surprised that you didn't like Marlboro Lights - worst cigarette ever.

Yeah, the no-name cigarettes are no-name.  They mailed them to me and they came in a plain white box with no label.  I'm going to read the rest of this thread and then step outside to smoke one of them and I'm sure I'll love it.

Darwinism at its finest.

Meh - I don't think one more cigarette will kill me.  I used to smoke 2 packs a day and I'm not dead yet.  It takes a long time and even then most smokers don't die from cigarette-related problems.

I might not even smoke that real cigarette.  I'm actually getting hungry now.  I'll probably eat something horribly unhealthy while I puff on my e-cig which probably contains the worst carcinogens man has yet to identify.

Go check your mail.  Maybe someone sent you some completely unlabeled food for you to eat.

Reputable brands list their ingredients. Many people also mix their own.


Johnson Creek Smoke Juice lists all the ingredients.  All of them.
2013-07-28 11:54:43 AM
2 votes:

fnordest: Infernalist: fnordest: In regard to the ones who use e-cigs to quit: I heard in the past that people quitting would carry an unlit cigarette because it was that was the habit beyond the addiction to the nicotine.

E-cigs would satisfy that habit, BUT what happens when you quit the e-cigs?

In most cases, you have two different kinds of e-cig users:  People who are trying to quit and people who are trying to not die from smoking.

Good point

The ones that are trying to quit quickly learn that you can moderate the amount of nicotine that you take in with e-cigs, until they reach the point where they can wean themselves off the e-cigs, too.    The ones that are trying to stay alive and still get their nicotine fix don't care and will 'smoke' e-cigs until they die.


Where does losing the habit of the "ritual" come into play for the quitters?


They tend to keep the e-cigs around and near-hand out of habit, but the desire isn't there.  My friend has taken to making a game out of how long she can go without smoking, which is 'insane' for a smoker's mindset.  She still keeps it within reach, if only to have something in her hands when she talks.

So, I'm guessing the 'ritual' never really dies, just the original purpose for it dies.
2013-07-28 11:53:07 AM
2 votes:
So, all the non-smoker in the thread...how much do you weigh?
2013-07-28 11:52:19 AM
2 votes:
Based on the troll comments in this thread, I've decided I'm going to become a militant anti-anti-perspirant and anti-cologne/perfume nutter.  I'm so flunking tired of smelling that toxic array of carcinogenic and endocrine disrupting chemical vapor.  I was in the office the other day, and one of my co-workers walked by and my throat started hurting, I could barely breath and I started getting physically nauseated by the cocktail of death she was sporting.  Seriously, if you want to use perfume and deodorant, do it outside, away from buildings.
2013-07-28 11:48:52 AM
2 votes:
I haven't touched a real cig in two years. I still have an e-cig for the previously mentioned illegal substances and the occasional nicotine free tobacco-flavored cartridges. (Really, really occasionally - gone through 3 cartridges in 4 months). I've been able to convince at least 6 people to permanently quit real cigs including my friend's 70 year old mom (2 packs a day for 50 years). And if you're discreet, nobody will hassle you anywhere. Don't buy one that looks and glows like a real cigarette.

And the idiot(s) that say they are banned everywhere? Most airlines yes. They get nervous when they see anything smoke-like in the cabin. I was never asked or questioned by any hotel, bar, or restaurant. It's completely odor free unless you're using a really cheap model (looking at you, N-Joy). The smell of vaped hash oil hangs around for about 5 seconds.

/not a paid shill
2013-07-28 11:48:48 AM
2 votes:

Molavian: Nut up and quit, f*ckers.  It's only hard for the first few days.


Sorry, not everyone has the mental fortitude of a concrete wall; sue us.
2013-07-28 11:37:12 AM
2 votes:

Saberus Terras: Infernalist: Saberus Terras: Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.

From personal experience, most e-cig users use the same propriety and protocol that goes along with cigs.  You don't do it in a non-smoker's home, you don't do it in a public place and you don't do it in a place labeled as 'non-smoking.'  Since they're all ex-smokers, it's not like it's a great change in their behavior at all.  I've never seen a e-cig user get upset about not being able to use a vape in a place where they've never been able to smoke before.

My wife's first e-cig was after I got out of the hospital from my lung surgery (walking pneumonia turned pleural effusion, all the doctors agreed it had nothing to do with second-hand smoke).

Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

She tried, but after that, just stuck to no-smoking signs also meaning "We're dipshiats who can't tell the difference."


Yeah, you can't go against cultural expectations like that.  Just keep doing what you've been doing for the last...however long she's been smoking.  Don't use them in public places or in non-smoking establishments.  Feel free to 'ask' the manager if it means that much to you, but don't expect people to be able to tell the difference between cigs and e-cigs.
2013-07-28 11:36:51 AM
2 votes:

LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.


Hell, I'm of the opinion that the VA should hand these out to all the smokers in the hospitals. They don't have to go outside in the snow to smoke unless they want to, the VA doesn't have to spend money maintaining/warming/heating a smoking shelter in the middle of Milwaukee winters, and hopefully, the health effects aren't as bad. Moreover, the smells are gone (the elevators and rooms sometimes smell from patients getting into them right after they smoke) and I don't have to nearly puke when I have to intubate a smoker, or deal with their crappy lung function and poor ventilation during wake ups and anesthesia inductions.

Hopefully, there will be less litter too, though I don't know how the e-cigs are packaged.

I'm of the opinion that smokers of standard cigarettes should in fact be stigmatized. They stink up building entrances and elevators when they come back from their smoke breaks and the litter--holy fark, they are a filthy group with respect to litter. I took a few pictures trash cans around the hospital last spring as the snow was melting and uncovering all the cigarettes that had been thrown in the snow within 3 feet of a trash can over the course of the winter. Why? The snow banks are waist high, you can put your cig out in the snow, reach over and throw it away. But no, even if you put a trash can or an ashtray in a spot where people congregate to smoke (at the entrance of every building, so we have to walk through their stink) they throw their shiat on the ground.

And of course, every single smoker I met and every single smoker on fark says they don't litter. They have a bottle with water in their car and put their cig out on that, they never throw it out the window. They use ashtrays or put out a cig with their foot, pick it up and throw it in the trash, they never litter on the sidewalk or on the building entrance. Every single smoker swears they don't litter, but yet I can't remember the last time I saw somebody NOT flick a cig on the ground, nor can I remember the last time I saw somebody put out a cig on the ground and then throw it in the trash. Hell, I've seen somebody flick a cig on the ground in front of a gas pump at a gas station in the middle of Oklahoma on a 100 degree day.

Yeah, traditional cig smokers need to be stigmatized. I've yet to see an e-cig user throw their whatever that thing is on the ground, nor have I ever been bothered by their smoke smell outside the building. So yeah, I'm way in favor of e-cigs.
2013-07-28 11:33:20 AM
2 votes:

AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.


Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.
2013-07-28 11:32:22 AM
2 votes:

Infernalist: Endive Wombat: Now someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that while nicotine is itself addictive, there was basically no conclusive evidence between pure nicotine usage and cancer.

No, you're right.  It's the other crap in cigs that cause the cancer, not the nicotine itself.


That was my impression to.  If I can't smell what you are doing, it doesn't cause me cancer and won't get me hooked on nicotine then I don't care if you do it.  I've only ever hated the smell.  It would be nice not to have to ford my way through huddled masses of smokers out front of my building in the middle of winter.
2013-07-28 11:31:11 AM
2 votes:

fnordest: In regard to the ones who use e-cigs to quit: I heard in the past that people quitting would carry an unlit cigarette because it was that was the habit beyond the addiction to the nicotine.

E-cigs would satisfy that habit, BUT what happens when you quit the e-cigs?


In most cases, you have two different kinds of e-cig users:  People who are trying to quit and people who are trying to not die from smoking.

The ones that are trying to quit quickly learn that you can moderate the amount of nicotine that you take in with e-cigs, until they reach the point where they can wean themselves off the e-cigs, too.    The ones that are trying to stay alive and still get their nicotine fix don't care and will 'smoke' e-cigs until they die.
2013-07-28 11:27:46 AM
2 votes:

gfid: buzzcut73: I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it.

I've used e-cigs for over a year.  I have a few no-name brand cigs  from a marketing experiment left over and I farking love those things.  e-cigs suck.  Still, not surprised that you didn't like Marlboro Lights - worst cigarette ever.

Yeah, the no-name cigarettes are no-name.  They mailed them to me and they came in a plain white box with no label.  I'm going to read the rest of this thread and then step outside to smoke one of them and I'm sure I'll love it.


Darwinism at its finest.
2013-07-28 11:26:53 AM
2 votes:

Saberus Terras: Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.


It's kind of hard to create propaganda against vaping; vapor is proven to be healthier than smoke, the liquid only contains FDA approved falvoring, PG (propylene glycol; used in asthma inhalers), VG (vegetable glycerin; can be mixed in variable ratios to PG. I prefer no VG), and a choice of nicotine content upon purchase.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard the Blu is now partnered with RJ Reynolds. If anything, big tobacco wants in.
2013-07-28 11:25:56 AM
2 votes:
I'd much rather people smoke these than smoke real cigarettes. Far less disgusting for everyone else around them, less litter, and AFAIK no harmful secondhand effects (or at least none that are proven). I am about as anti-smoking as it gets, having watched relatives die from smoking and having a younger brother who smokes. I'd rather he smoke these than the real thing, and I'm not convinced they should be banned in public (not sure I'd want to share an airline row with someone using one, though, given that they do still give off vapor).

The one issue I might have with these things is that they obviously are still addictive, since they deliver nicotine. So the question is whether they are actually going to be effective long term in helping people quit. It seems to me that as long as the person is addicted to nicotine, and to the ritual of smoking, there is a strong potential that they will revert to smoking. I can certainly see the benefit if the person tapers down on the nicotine content, but that still takes strong willpower and discipline over a long period of time. I've seen several people fail in attempts to quit using nicotine gum or ecigs because they didn't do that rigorously enough.
2013-07-28 11:11:27 AM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: but you're still willingly inhaling carcinogens just to stick it to us non-smokers.


Yes. Smokers do it because you're so important they're willing to take the risk just to stick it to you.

/get over yourself.
2013-07-28 11:04:19 AM
2 votes:

Shadowknight: I may never get her to stop destroying her own health, but maybe it's not too much to ask for her to stop destroying ours or stenching up the place.


My wife and I both smoke as well as others in our families. If we have family over for the holidays all the smokers will go out to the garage to smoke just to be courteous.  That's only for an afternoon of evening though. If they were here a whole month? Well, too bad. I wouldn't smoke at their house but this is my house. Sorry, you can deal with it or stay somewhere else.
2013-07-28 11:02:16 AM
2 votes:
Switching to PVs has been the best choice of my adult life. Don't buy the cheapass kits from stores; go online and get some quality stuff like a Provari, LavaTube for good variable voltage devices, and eGo or iTaste if you want something mid sized. Still too big? Then get a good 510 kit; a Joye-T  or Magma-T is good beginner's setup.

Been vaping for over two years now. I can run without weasing, my lungs don't ever hurt, and the experience just doesn't feel as addicting without all the additives. Being able to gently lower the dose of the liquid has helped many people quit smoking. I started at 24mg, and am now at 8mg.
2013-07-28 11:01:18 AM
2 votes:
I am an anti-smoking health nut, and I will recommend e-cigs to any smoker I can.  Better for them, better for everyone else.

Much as someone who is truly "pro-life" must support free birth control in order to appear reasonable, any reasonable anti-smoker has to be pro-e-cig.

And yes, I get annoyed by the places banning them.  At least they are, I believe, easier to hide.
2013-07-28 11:00:48 AM
2 votes:

Endive Wombat: Now someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that while nicotine is itself addictive, there was basically no conclusive evidence between pure nicotine usage and cancer.


No, you're right.  It's the other crap in cigs that cause the cancer, not the nicotine itself.
2013-07-28 10:58:56 AM
2 votes:
Now someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that while nicotine is itself addictive, there was basically no conclusive evidence between pure nicotine usage and cancer.
2013-07-28 10:42:41 AM
2 votes:
i-i-I b-believeieve you sp-spelt movemement wrwrong.
2013-07-28 10:22:16 AM
2 votes:

Disgruntled Goat: I couldn't care less what smokers do to their own bodies. It's the smoke in the room, the stench permeating everything and the fact that smokers think it's okay to toss their used butts anywhere they please that pisses me off.


This.
2013-07-28 10:18:15 AM
2 votes:
I spent 10 years chewing nicotine gum before finally kicking the habit. As a result my lungs & health are fine. I'd support any smoker moving to e-cigarettes vs the real thing. They will do them a lot less harm. Good luck trying to kick the tarred lung habit.
2013-07-28 09:31:18 AM
2 votes:

Shadowknight: I will never get my mom to stop smoking...maybe it's not too much to ask for her to stop destroying ours or stenching up the place.


Gift her a hookah and and some honeydew tobacco. And some appropriate charcoal. Everyone will be much happier.
2013-07-28 08:37:59 AM
2 votes:
Smoke up and die, already, before universal healthcare comes along and makes us all pay for your stupidity.

/Quit twelve years ago.
2013-07-28 08:20:14 AM
2 votes:
Don't taunt them, subby.  Enough people are already inclined to try to further control the sale of ecigs.
2013-07-29 09:44:18 AM
1 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: e-cigs don't satisfy.  now u might think this is a big deal but it's not.  people just like fish dicks in their mouth


Not most people.  That's just you.
2013-07-29 08:38:43 AM
1 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: e-cigs don't satisfy.  now u might think this is a big deal but it's not.  people just like fish dicks in their mouth


Get that fish dick out of your mouth. E-cigs are great!
2013-07-29 04:51:29 AM
1 votes:

SecretAgentWoman: As a non-smoker, I'm clueless.

I'd like to get my sister an e-cig starter kit, but I have no clue where to start.

Help me out?


http://www.discountvapers.com/kanger-evod-kit-stainless/

Easiest setup to use for those just starting out. If she want's a different color, they have several. As for juice, The Vapor Chef is probably one of the most popular around right now, there's also Volcano that has some decent menthol flavors (search "volcano ecig"). Just stay away from the Chinese made liquids (Dekang, et al)

PM me if you have any questions or need help.
2013-07-29 04:45:42 AM
1 votes:

FuzedBox: Spanky McStupid: Ungarlmek: I'm using my vapor kit right now. It's fantastic.

Does it have the same "flavor" as a regular cig?  Thinking about getting one.

You just stumbled onto the proverbial Achilles Heel of vaping; very few tobacco flavors are any good. I found a few that I liked, chief among them being 'Tobacco Pure' from Volcano. The problem with Volcano is that their juices are kinda pricey.


I don't know where you're getting your Volcano juices from, but they're not much different from most other lines ($20 30ml; cheaper if you have a local shop). Five Pawns, now THAT shiat is pricey! ($27.50 for 30ml)
2013-07-29 04:44:35 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Bumblefark:

[healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com image 378x316]

That chart has got to assume near-zero muscle-tone. I'm 6'4" and when I was bicycling several miles a day to and from school and then also biking on weekends 15 miles around the lake (an extremely hilly 15 miles, too), I was 224lbs. There's no way I was well on the way to "severely obese". I'd say that chart has some built-in assumptions that can be safely ignored by anyone doing a regular exercise regime.


You gotta cut Bumble some slack, that chart is as old and out-dated as he is, and it's tough being old today. No respect anymore...

/oh I'm singin' in the rain..
2013-07-29 04:37:19 AM
1 votes:

drxym: I think these e-cigarettes are a great idea though I question the wisdom of where some people order their nicotine from. A guy a work has it delivered from China for example. Who knows what the hell is in that crap. He could be swapping one carcinogen delivery mechanism for another.


Actually ALL "liquid" nicotine comes from China. We export the tobacco to them, they extract the nicotine and send it back to us. There are PLENTY of US made e-liquids, but the nicotine that almost everyone uses comes from China, unless they are extracting it themselves. I don't really trust e-liquid from China, because I don't trust them to not put other things in it, so I buy US liquids from reputable companies that label their shiat.
2013-07-29 04:26:33 AM
1 votes:

Saberus Terras: Saberus Terras


I would have just picked up my shiat and walked out of the restaurant if the manager talked to me like that.
2013-07-29 04:12:57 AM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Mmmm, emitting a vapor that contains a known drug that has side effects? Yeah, I want that floating around me in an enclosed room. Piss off, addicts.

You should do what heroin addicts do and shoot up quietly in the bathroom stalls or justwear a farkin' patch. Enough with the oral fixations.


You're a farking idiot. Nicotine is in tomatoes, peppers, and other plants, and studies suggest it may lower risk of Parkinson's disease. So, yeah, fark you.
2013-07-29 04:09:36 AM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Do you smokers know what chemicals they're using in those e-cigs? Sure, it seems healthier because there's no smoke, but you're still willingly inhaling carcinogens just to stick it to us non-smokers. That, to me, is hilarious.


Yes, we do know what's in them: Nicotine, propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, and food-grade flavoring. There are no carcinogens in them because THERE IS NOTHING BURNING you farking idiot.
2013-07-29 04:07:03 AM
1 votes:

elementcircle: Chantex and the like have a very bad side effect that causes a LOT of people to have suicidal thoughts/self harm actions, so it's not worth it.


Yep. I was actually just sitting here, staring at the prescription bottle my doctor pushed on me last week, and thinking, "nope, nope, nope."

/not really a happy-happy fellow to begin with, so not going to roll those dice. Thinking I might just pick up an e-cig tomorrow, give that a whirl.
2013-07-29 04:06:27 AM
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Now someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that while nicotine is itself addictive, there was basically no conclusive evidence between pure nicotine usage and cancer.


This is correct. Nicotine does NOT cause cancer. The burning of matter creates carcinogens and THAT causes cancer.

And to all the farktards that keep biatching about "secondhand vapor", there is less nicotine suspended in that than there is in your garden variety tomatoes. Yes, there is nicotine in tomatoes (amongst other plants), and IF by the time that miniscule amount gets into your lungs (you'd have to be right in the vapor cloud), you're absorbing practically nothing that would be detectable by any tests.
2013-07-29 03:49:29 AM
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: Just no one tell them 'e-cigs' produce a lot of dioxins. Huffing on hot plastic is perfectly safe.


You're a farking idiot.
2013-07-29 03:43:43 AM
1 votes:

Disgruntled Goat: I couldn't care less what smokers do to their own bodies. It's the smoke in the room, the stench permeating everything and the fact that smokers think it's okay to toss their used butts anywhere they please that pisses me off.


None of these things happen with real ecigs. You may find an occasional asshole that throws a disposable on the ground, but they're the type that would throw just about anything on the ground and should be punched in the face accordingly. (And disposables farking suck to begin with.) They don't smell except if you're standing right in the cloud of vapor and even then it smells like whatever flavor they're vaping (which is almost always something yummy).
2013-07-29 03:37:15 AM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Smoke up and die, already, before universal healthcare comes along and makes us all pay for your stupidity.

/Quit twelve years ago.


Well aren't you a big farking man. If you knew anything about quitting smoking, you would know that it is one of the hardest things to quit in the world. Most people end up relapsing. Gum and patches don't work for the vast majority. Chantex and the like have a very bad side effect that causes a LOT of people to have suicidal thoughts/self harm actions, so it's not worth it. fark you, big man. I hope you relapse and get cancer you farking troll.
2013-07-29 02:44:17 AM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: I will never get my mom to stop smoking. Never mind she's already having coughing fits that puts my passed grandmother's death bed rattles to shame, she just "enjoys it" too much to quit. But, at the very least I wish she would go with an e-cig. I've been visiting the families the last month (we live in Spain, but I bring the kids home for the summer to see the grandparents) and all of my clothes smell like stale, nasty smoke. My eyes are constantly burning. My sinuses are so clogged up with black, tar-like snot that I can hardly breath.

I may never get her to stop destroying her own health, but maybe it's not too much to ask for her to stop destroying ours or stenching up the place.


Take it from someone who's mother died of lung cancer directly caused from smoking, and who wishes e-cigs were around back then: Research them and buy her one. You can do what I can only hope and pray I could have done. If she doesn't want to smoke, so be it. At least she won't have to die from lung cancer. There are also different strengths and flavors. Perhaps your mother can learn to compromise, if not her sake, than her grandchildren.
2013-07-28 10:35:29 PM
1 votes:
thepipesmoker.files.wordpress.com
"I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and
objective judgement in all human affairs."

Smoke pipes, not cigarettes.
2013-07-28 10:27:39 PM
1 votes:
Since people are throwing e-cig companies around, I'd like to throw V2's hat in the ring.  V2cigs.com.  I'm not entirely sure how they compare quality-wise, but they have a pretty decent warrantee policy that (atleast when I was buying my first e-cig a year ago) was the best I came across.  If your battery stops working, and you've bought atleast one package of carts/other product from their website in the last 90 days, you were covered.  90 days may not seem like a lot to a non-smoker, but as any smoker that depends on an e-cig can tell you, it's a farking lifetime.
2013-07-28 10:27:25 PM
1 votes:

Macular Degenerate: There is nothing "e" about "e-cigarettes". It's just a battery powered vaporizer. Vaporizing a highly addictive drug. How this is farking legal and pot is still outlawed, I have no idea.


The "E" stands for "electronic." You do not even need to have nicotine in the device. Many people that use ecigs to quit work down to 0% nicotine, and use them purely to satisfy a psychological addiction until they quit entirely.

I realize you must be trolling, or extremely stupid, but I thought I would clarify that.
2013-07-28 09:13:24 PM
1 votes:

Pesky_Humans: ECF is a great resource, although the amount of info is like a phone book. People seem to like the Ego C and Ego Twist a lot for a starter set. Get some clearo tanks (a lot of folks really dig the Kanger Protank and some extra coil heads, which are dirt cheap. This setup is essentially foolproof and gives a lot of people really good results. If you decide that you want something more durable and with longer battery life, you can go to a "mod" that will cost a bit more, but will give you better overall performance in the long run. The Provari and the Reos mods are both well loved depending on how you want to delivery the juice to the atomizer or cartomizer. The Provari is a tube device like the Ego that takes tanks, cartos, atomizers or whatever else. The Reo actually has a bottle incident that you fill with juice and just put an atomizer or carto on top and go all day.

A lot of people turn this into a hobby. I'm not one of them. I just wanted to quit smoking and it is working extremely well for me.

As for juice, Pink Spot vapors is a great place to start, particularly for fruity stuff. They have regular availability, great service, and great product. If you like tobaccos you can't go wrong with some Copper Creek House blend.


I was researching the Kanger today and may dump my current clearomizers for this. I'm tired of the leaking and wasting the juice. The technology is changing so rapidly it's nearly impossible for a noob to keep up though and it puts them off. But I like the fact the Kanger has a Pyrex tank and stainless/brass innards. Plus it's rebuildable and I'm getting away from the disposable varieties in favor of longevity and a reduction in pieces. I got tired of buying tanks and whatnot then being disappointed when they failed prematurely.

I started with the first iterations, the thin 510 Joyetech style about 4 years ago and worked up from there and along the way had some real doozies, they were that bad..  I too am not a hobbyist but I find it very enjoyable and a bonus that I can do this, satisfy a hideous addiction and limit at least one small bit of bad stuff I ingest and save some $ in the process.

I did the research and I know exactly whats in the juice I buy, EcoPure. It is pricey but the tobacco flavor just appeals to me so much and sadly they are discontinuing it in the USA...bastards. There's something about the smell of fresh cut tobacco that I find appealing. It's heavy VG, but I cut it with some really good Blueberry, only 20% PG that I also know exactly the composition.

Unfortunately so many of the Chinese companies that produce juice and hardware just flat out suck.
2013-07-28 08:49:46 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Do you smokers know what chemicals they're using in those e-cigs? Sure, it seems healthier because there's no smoke, but you're still willingly inhaling carcinogens just to stick it to us non-smokers. That, to me, is hilarious.


You're misinformed. Also, I don't use e-cigs to "stick it to" anybody. I do it because it is a vast risk reduction to cigarettes. 20 year smoker switched to e-cigs overnight, over 2 years ago. A $50 bottle of 12 mg juice lasts me about 1.5 months. I am hurting no one. I feel so much better, my lungs are awesome, and I smell great. There's no conclusive evidence of harm with e-cig use - for the user or for those who are nearby - but it is a young phenomenon, and I fully support further research.

dryknife: Wouldn't nicotine be in suspension in the vapor coming off e-cigs? It is a poison in strong enough doses. Nicotine can be used as a pesticide. Would it be okay for someone to spray bug killer everywhere they want just because it's not smoke?


Nicotine from the vapor does not affect you, if you are not drawing from the e-cigarette; as far as any studies can find, there are no public health issues with second-hand vapor. In fact, as I mentioned, there's nothing that supports a risk to the  user. Again, I fully support further testing.

Nicotine itself, especially in the levels of the juices, are very, very low anyway. Rather harmless. Addictive, yes. Carcinogen? No. Affects on the cardiovascular system? A little controversial, some say it inhibits .. well, here's a quick read. Here's a video for another study. Here's a study discussing cell death that is *far* less than tobacco cigarettes. Here is a study that says e-cigarettes are less addictive than tobacco cigarettes.

J. Frank Parnell: Just no one tell them 'e-cigs' produce a lot of dioxins. Huffing on hot plastic is perfectly safe.


Prove it. My rig is Pyrex glass and metal, with a silicone thread. My other rig which has plastic tank doesn't get hot. I'd like to see more about this melting plastic terror you are discussing. Maybe shoddy gas station stuff... I don't know.

Anyway, there are a lot of resources to learn more. I can't stress it enough, though:  I want more studies - long-term, peer-reviewed, clinical, well-funded studies. Until then, the consequences of smoking, or being inflicted with the smoke of, a tobacco cigarette that produces a toxic tar and contains countless chemicals are clear. The consequences of using a vapor system with a handful of known ingredients,  none of which have known harmful properties*, that has improved my life immensely? Yeah, I'll go with that.

*One concern is Diacetyl. However, you go with vendors you trust - they have chemists on staff, they avoid using flavors with Diacetyl. Few, if any, US vendors have Diacetyl in their juices, so it's really not a big deal. More fear-mongering, as far as I can tell.
2013-07-28 08:16:25 PM
1 votes:

Blazncheetah: I wish this thread had more recommendations on e-cig models and liquids.
I probably should go to an e-cig forums but having opinions outside of one helps too.


As much as it has been ragged on in this thread, I'm very happy with my Blu Premium 100.  The liquid used in the cartridges is manufactured by Johnson Creek.  The Premium 100 batteries last longer than the standard Blu batteries, the device has the right hand feel for me (40 year smoker here), the pack is the same size as a Marlboro 100's pack and the whole thing recharges quickly, using the same micro USB charger as my smart phones do.  I like most of the flavors, with my favorites being the vanilla and coffee flavors.

For the person that asked how safe is it heating plastic - the Blu cartridge only has a vinyl exterior coating.  The combination cartridge/atomizer is metal.  The vinyl coating is simply for comfort.

Not only does my company prefer use of electronic cigarettes over the analog models, they allow use of them in the building.  One of the lovely ladies from the facilities group saw my Blu pack on my desk and graciously provided me with an ashtray from one of the store rooms so I don't have to have my in-use digital cigarette rolling around loose on my desk.
2013-07-28 08:13:12 PM
1 votes:
You guys wouldn't believe how many people at LANL are puffing on these things.  We even have a vapor store here now.  Still no Wal-Mart or Target or anything, though.

I highly recommend the Lavatube and eGo V ain't bad either.  I've heard great things about the Provari and eGo Twist.

Wasn't too impressed with the Vivi Nova tank, but the mini Vivi Nova is great for smaller batteries so long as you don't misthread the caps.  That'll split the plastic in a hurry.

Just got a pyrex Pro-Tank recently and LOVE IT.
2013-07-28 07:57:41 PM
1 votes:
"Wouldn't nicotine be in suspension in the vapor coming off e-cigs? It is a poison in strong enough doses. Nicotine can be used as a pesticide. Would it be okay for someone to spray bug killer everywhere they want just because it's not smoke?"

Dryknife you look farking retarded.  You actually think you can absorb enough nicotine to mean a damn thing off second hand smoke?  Good luck catching a buzz off second hand smoke: it's never gonna happen.

You don't know anything.
2013-07-28 06:46:08 PM
1 votes:

Carth: mooseyfate: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.

car2go has it right on their website, zipcar will say no ecigs when you call. Hilton won't let you use any smoking devices which include ecigs in any of their non smoking rooms.


And yet no one will ever know, as ecigs leave no trace behind.
2013-07-28 06:42:33 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I don't want nicotine in my body by any means nor do others.


Do you think those small doses of nicotine are bad for you?  Nicotine is not the thing in cigarettes that causes health problems, only in large doses does it kill you. In fact, in small doses as found in vapor and cigarettes it has been linked to a significant reduction in the risk of Alzheimer's and dementia.  It's sort of like alcohol, a huge dose will kill you, but in small doses, there are benefits.
2013-07-28 06:42:24 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: JuggleGeek: AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

So your stance is to assume it's dangerous, and until it is proven 100% safe, keep it away from you?

My stance has always been not to share it in enclosed rooms with others in it with you. I don't want nicotine in my body by any means nor do others. The continuing assumption by those who want to use electronic cigarettes freely in replying to my comments has been either to claim it's safe without facts or to compare the vapor to common items like scented candles.

It's delivering nicotine to your body via the lungs. I'm not comfortable on its secondhand vapor. You haven't proved it's not emitting nicotine to those in the surrounding area. I'm not cool with you assuming it's safe for me only for your convenience so you don't have to to to someplace else.

Whatever happened to asking strangers and/or friends around you,"Mind if I vape?" If they don't, do. If they do, don't or move someplace else.


If you care to read about a study conducted which addresses your specific concerns:

Clearstream Air StudyIn December 2011, Aaron Frazier, Director of the Utah Vapers began consulting with FlavourArt in Milan Italy to develop research on the electronic cigarette in ways that had yet to be performed by anyone around the world. It was through this relationship that Clearstream Air was born. The purpose of this study was to identify and quantify the chemicals released on a closed environment from the use of an electronic cigarette.


Study ResultsThe study has now been completed, peer reviewed and accepted for the 2012 meeting of SRNT in Helsinki. The experiment concludes that within the limits of the observed parameters, has underlined that passive vapor does not produce detectable amounts of toxic and carcinogenic substances in the air of an enclosed space. You can view the study here: http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CSA_ I taEng.pdf
2013-07-28 06:41:31 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: It's delivering nicotine to your body via the lungs.


In my case, it's not.  I slowly reduced the nic until I reached 0 nic.

I'm not comfortable on its secondhand vapor. You haven't proved it's not emitting nicotine to those in the surrounding area.

I don't think it would ever be possible to "prove it's 100% safe" with pretty much anything.  However, if you can't point to any evidence that it *is* dangerous, that says something.  Personally, I do avoid vaping if someone asks me not to do it, but until they ask, I assume it isn't a problem.  I've had very, very few people ask me not to do it.

And again, do you avoid automobiles and bathrooms?  Those aren't 100% safe either.  Automobiles have been the #1 cause of accidental death over the past few decades, but I suspect you still drive.
2013-07-28 06:07:08 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.


So your stance is to assume it's dangerous, and until it is proven 100% safe, keep it away from you?

Can you show any evidence at all that they aren't safe?  There are a whole lot of people vaping, and so far, zero evidence that it's causing any health issues.  You can't name anyone that's gotten sick from it or died from it, but your assumption is "Must not be safe".

I suppose that with your insistence on 100% safetly, you also avoid things like automobiles and bathrooms?
2013-07-28 05:50:39 PM
1 votes:

DubyaHater: I don't know much about the e-cigs and I certainly DNRTFA. I would think an e-cig habit is rather cost prohibitive. My guess is a pack of e-cigs cost 10x a pack of cigarettes.


Buying a good vaporizer has a fair amount of up front cost, so short term, it's a lot more than buying cigs.

But most of that is for stuff you will re-use.  (2 rechargeable batteries, a battery charger, and some sort of tank or cartomizer, plus a bottle of juice.)  Long term, vaping is a ton cheaper than smoking.  One thing that comes up is that the more you smoke, the faster you hit the "break even" point.  If you smoke 3 packs a day and quit, you save a lot more money every day, so it doesn't take long to save the cost of the e-cig setup.  If you only smoke a 1/2 pack a day, it takes a lot longer to reach that point.

But honestly, the money you save is 4th or so in line when looking at the benefits.  Health, not smelling like a smoker, being able to vape in places where you can't smoke without bothering people, those are all more important IMO.

Anyone wanting to get started should know there is a bit of a learning curve.  The best place to go for info is a local vape shop, but if you don't have one of those, I recommend http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com

I smoked for over 30 years and was smoking 3 packs a day before I started vaping.  Now I haven't had a cig in almost 2 years, and while I still vape all the time, I've gotten off the nicotine completely.

ElizaDoolittle: I wish I could quit nic, but I can't. You betcha I've tried, many times.


When I started vaping, the juice they sold me was 24 nic.  That wasn't enough to get me off the cigs, and I had to buy some 30 nic juice.  Once I did that, quitting cigs was easy.  I didn't use the 30 nic for long.  24 would work as my "all day" and I'd use 30 when I really craved a cig, like right after meals.  Before long, even after meals I could stay with the 24.  After a few months on the 24, I bought some 18, and I mixed enough 18/24 together to last a few days (so I was doing 21 as a transition to the 18.)  Then I did the 18 for awhile, and eventually moved to 12 (again, mixing 12/18 together for a transition.)  I kept doing that, cutting down a little at a time, and now I've been vaping 0 nic for several months.  Cutting down slowly worked for me.  I'm still vaping, just without the nic.
2013-07-28 05:50:21 PM
1 votes:
What's in the vapor?  What's in the e-liquid?

Long terms studies are certainly warranted, but for people considering e-cigs and would research it a bit more in depth, here's a great resource:

http://www.casaa.org/Lab_Reports__ecigarettes.html

I've been vaping for almost three years and have helped several people transition from smoking to vaping by suggesting specific products and showing them how to use them.  Smoking is definitely easier and more convenient, but vaping is definitely less harmful to one's health.

And I never tell anyone that vaping is harmless.  It's just a great tobacco harm reduction alternative.
2013-07-28 05:37:30 PM
1 votes:

ColdFusion: ColdFusion: ununcle: ColdFusion: I smoke, and if you're a smoker who flicks away butts, I don't know what's wrong with you.

I save my butts.  When I feel like saving a few bucks, I wring out the leftover tobacco from them and roll my own.  Can make a pack of handrolls from my leftovers for less than a dollar.  Also shuts up the "zomg you smokers all litter" herp derp when they see you tuck that butt in your pack after putting it out.

Your doing it wrong. Instead of saving a "few" bucks you should cut the cost of your habit by 70% and roll your own. Not only do I only spend 15 bucks a carton (as opposed to 60), I don't have to smoke gross sticky non filtered second hand tobacco. Less chemicals as well.

Well, I tried rolling my own for a while, but it just became too time consuming to do it all the time.  So, I might do about two weeks on a regular pack, and then one week rolling my own.  When I feel REALLY lazy, I pipe smoke the leftovers.

Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here.  I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.


I have an electric cigarette machine and one of the ones with the lever on it. Payed nothing for the electric,$30 for the other. $2 for a carton's worth of tubes,$10 for a big bag of KY best tobacco. Takes like ten minutes to roll most of a box of tubes.
2013-07-28 05:27:39 PM
1 votes:

HighZoolander: That's great that you would do that - I certainly appreciate when smokers are considerate, and I know other non-smokers do too. If everyone had done that there would be far fewer problems. Unfortunately there are so many inconsiderate smokers, including even some who would happily even blow smoke into the face of asthmatic (I've known several), that they ruined things for everyone. And if the government can make noise ordinances or fine people for having too much garbage on their property, I think it's not a different thing to put restrictions on smoking (when and where it's a nuisance to other people; I don't think a blanket ban is reasonable).


Those aren't close analogies. Closer would be making all bars stop having bands b/c someone walking by doesn't like having to occasionally hear music. You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of anti smokers out there that aren't pushing bans b/c they care about health, or even the smell of tobacco, they're doing it b/c they are miserable people that want to force others to do what they think they should. Alcohol probation is a closer analogy.

It wont be too long before these devices are found to be very dangerous. Much of the anti smoking hype was funded by big pharma, so you'd buy their pills and patches and such. They don't like competition, and they'll get their more unscrupulous buddies in academia to get some studies done soon.
2013-07-28 05:11:44 PM
1 votes:
I used to be a very heavy smoker (3 packs a day) but quit overnight once I found a reliable e-cig supplier. That was 4.5 years ago. I'm still as addicted to nicotine as I ever was, but that's all I was ever addicted to about smoking. Nobody gets addicted to the stink, the mess, the dirty ashtrays, or the tar-stained everything associated with cigarettes.

The industry made a huge mistake when it called the device an e-"cig".  I guess they thought the "e" prefix sounded trendy.  If they'd called it a nicotine inhaler, most of this fuss would be avoided. There's also a lack of understanding of how they operate.  I was at my cousin's last month; last time I visited I still smoked. I had an ecig in my pocket, so I demonstrated it with one vape.  His wife said, that's amazing... there's no smell of smoke.  I explained that that was because, well, nothing was on fire.

As for the hotels and rental cars banning you from using ecigs, good luck with enforcing that. Ecig vapor is colorless (when people refer to nicotine-stained fingers, they mean tar-stained) and doesn't cause burn marks or create ashes, so how are they even going to know you used them?  Do they also ban nicotine patches, gum, and nasal inhalers?  It seems inconsistent not to.  I stayed in a Hyatt in a non-smoking room on my trip and vaped away and they never knew. Heck, I brought them with me for an overnight stay in hospital and vaped in the bathroom and nobody was the wiser.

I wish I could quit nic, but I can't. You betcha I've tried, many times. This is a far better alternative than cigarettes.  The downside is that I used to fling a few cartons of cigarettes in with my groceries at the supermarket.  Now I buy the ecigs online from one merchant, and at the end of the year my Amex statement makes me realize just how much my addiction costs.

Despite the occasional animosity in the thread, I found some useful suggestions on buying and dripping my own cartridges, which would be cheaper and also give me more control over where the supply is coming from.  Thanks, subby and tipsters!
2013-07-28 05:09:34 PM
1 votes:

brantgoose: Why don't you just drop smoking and take up injecting heroin directly into your veins?

The tobacco industry doesn't care about tobacco. It's just a delvery-system for a drug. They don't care about the drug either. Any old drug will do, as long as it is addictive. Nicotene is addictive and comes from a plant that can be grown cheaply and picked by the nearest thing to slaves that the governments of Southern States will allow (which is wage-slaves--it took a Civil War but they finally clicked to the idea that wage-slaves and debt-farmers are cheaper than plantations and the other kind of slaves).

In short, everybody, including the e-cigarette manufacturers know and admit that e-cigarettes are the moral equivalent of crack pipes.

ONLY THE DRUGS THAT ARE PROFITABLE TO CORPORATIONS AND OUR MASTERS WHO OWN THEM AND RUN THEM MAY BE ALLOWED.

Once you get right down to brass tacks, tobacco is just crack for the people who used to be sold opium by the US government and the British Crown.

Remember this, smokers: you have nothing to lose but your chain-smoking. All the "cool" and "pleasure" has been sucked out of smoking and you now are just one tiny bit ahead of druggies shooting up--you don't have to search for an uncollapsed vein.


If you're not a smoker, I encourage you to pick up the habit because you're way overstressed, boyo.
2013-07-28 04:59:34 PM
1 votes:
Why don't you just drop smoking and take up injecting heroin directly into your veins?

The tobacco industry doesn't care about tobacco. It's just a delvery-system for a drug. They don't care about the drug either. Any old drug will do, as long as it is addictive. Nicotene is addictive and comes from a plant that can be grown cheaply and picked by the nearest thing to slaves that the governments of Southern States will allow (which is wage-slaves--it took a Civil War but they finally clicked to the idea that wage-slaves and debt-farmers are cheaper than plantations and the other kind of slaves).

In short, everybody, including the e-cigarette manufacturers know and admit that e-cigarettes are the moral equivalent of crack pipes.

ONLY THE DRUGS THAT ARE PROFITABLE TO CORPORATIONS AND OUR MASTERS WHO OWN THEM AND RUN THEM MAY BE ALLOWED.

Once you get right down to brass tacks, tobacco is just crack for the people who used to be sold opium by the US government and the British Crown.

Remember this, smokers: you have nothing to lose but your chain-smoking. All the "cool" and "pleasure" has been sucked out of smoking and you now are just one tiny bit ahead of druggies shooting up--you don't have to search for an uncollapsed vein.
Esn
2013-07-28 04:57:45 PM
1 votes:

Thirty Foot Smurf: As much as I applaud the obvious and undeniable public health benefit of eliminating tobacco/electronic nicotine use, I am wary of what will take place once the battle against it is won.  There's not going to be a point where the public is "healthy enough" and the efforts to curb "unhealthy" habits will cease.  Something else will be a target, and I'm sure somehow the righteous indignation will still prevail once alcohol becomes demonized as a threat to health and general productivity in the same manner as nicotine products have.

/Really fun at parties
//Tobacco-less since February 6, 2012


Yeah, something else will be a target, but there won't be as many people complaining. I absolutely hate cigarette smoke (including second and third-hand) because some chemical in it makes it very hard for me to breathe. I don't think I'm alone. (pipes, cigars and mini-cigars are actually no problem for me... it's something cigarette-specific)

I think much of the support for banning e-cigs actually comes from the traditional cigarette companies. Subby is dead-wrong; we "health nuts" LOVE it when other people use e-cigs instead of regular cigarettes. And smokers should love it too because it's cheaper and doesn't cause them to stink.
2013-07-28 04:43:29 PM
1 votes:
    If the government genuinely cared about peoples health and the burden smokers present to healthcare they'd be handing these things out for free. But no,,, coincidentally, E-ciggs cost about the same as the cancer sticks that corporate farking whores and their government cronies hooked millions of citizens on in the 60's and 70's. There's no farking reason for the prices of E-cigs to be even close. Now they wanna trump up "safety concerns" because their loosing billions in tax revenue due to people making the switch.
2013-07-28 04:24:05 PM
1 votes:
The common thread here is that people have a problem with cigarettes.  Hang around a pipe smoker sometime.  Pipe smoke smells wonderful.
2013-07-28 04:04:12 PM
1 votes:

o4tuna: Surpheon: o4tuna: DERP! DERP! DERP!

Actually, seems most of the complaining I've seen is about the PG. As far as the nicotine goes, There's an insanely small amount in each drag, which is mostly trapped in the lungs of the user. The amount exhaled is indeed measurable, but minuscule. If a person is worried about exposure to that minuscule amount, they should probably only breathe filtered air, as pollution, both man-made & natural, is at far higher levels.


The nicotine is absorbed primarily through the mouth, nasal cavity, and throat. By the time it gets to the lungs it's pretty much gone, assuming you pause for a moment after the inhale.

A lot of us Ecig users don't even do a full lung inhale. That's usually something that starters do in order to get a more cigarette like effect.

TMYK
2013-07-28 03:58:56 PM
1 votes:

robodog: BraveNewCheneyWorld: AirForceVet: DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Are you this upset about perfume, potpourri, scented candles, air freshener, surface cleaners, microwaved popcorn etc?  Unless you are, you really have no business whining.

I'm against all of those but popcorn, popcorn steam doesn't bother me unless it's been burnt. That said the only place I think vaping should be banned is airplanes, too much recirculating of the air, otherwise there's no way it's going to bother you.


You picked a doosie:  http://www.popcornlung.com/Popcorn-Lung-Overview/Popcorn-Lung-Symptom s .shtml
2013-07-28 03:31:47 PM
1 votes:

o4tuna: DERP! DERP! DERP!
OHMYGERD! You're vaporizing Propylene Glycol & breathing it into my air! You're trying to kill me!


To bad there's not an incidence of long term exposure to 1000's of times higher concentrations of vaporized propylene glycol, over decades, in enclosed spaces. Hmmmm, let me think...

Here look at these purty pictures while I think:

[images.sdj.netdna-cdn.com image 850x711]

[haveyouhurd.com image 400x300]

[image.dhgate.com image 473x282]

[image.made-in-china.com image 850x639]

Nope, drawing a blank, anybody help me out here?


If you filled that up with thc would you literally be able to smoke yourself stupid? o.o
2013-07-28 03:08:22 PM
1 votes:

LoneWolf343: mooseyfate: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.

That must have been one understanding judge...


No shiat. Some judges seem to take exception to breathing.
2013-07-28 03:03:48 PM
1 votes:

Blazncheetah: I wish this thread had more recommendations on e-cig models and liquids.
I probably should go to an e-cig forums but having opinions outside of one helps too.


I learned so much from ECF, but yeah, other opinions are always welcome.  Heck, I've even lurked Reddit's subforum about it.  Lots to learn, and there's a lot of opinions out there.  I'd love to see some truly impartial studies done, but hopefully in time they'll be out there.  Until then, vape on, and be happy.
2013-07-28 03:01:07 PM
1 votes:

Bumblefark:

[healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com image 378x316]


That chart has got to assume near-zero muscle-tone. I'm 6'4" and when I was bicycling several miles a day to and from school and then also biking on weekends 15 miles around the lake (an extremely hilly 15 miles, too), I was 224lbs. There's no way I was well on the way to "severely obese". I'd say that chart has some built-in assumptions that can be safely ignored by anyone doing a regular exercise regime.
2013-07-28 02:56:18 PM
1 votes:
Bumblefark:
[education-portal.com image 375x205]

[healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com image 378x316]


Seriously, switch to metric already.
2013-07-28 02:44:48 PM
1 votes:
E-cig threads on Fark are the new tipping threads.  Wow, some of you are really judgmental.  Have a Coke smoke and a smile and STFU.

Love my Ego-T.
2013-07-28 02:42:58 PM
1 votes:

pmdgrwr: limboslam: Aarontology: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

The juices for them are nitoctine in a polypropylene gylcol or vegetable glycol suspension with flavor additives, so aside from the nicotine, it's not terribly different than inhaling steam from a cooking pot on a stove. The glycol can be dangerous, but only in very large amounts.

Is there any danger from "second-hand" glycol?

There may be some dangers, but there is danger is most things in our lives. Bad drivers, drunks but we seem to not care about their behaviors as much as those who use tobacco or nicotine products. My advice is to stop looking into the dangers of what everyone else is doing. It is call a free society and that requires that people to accept and navigate dangers in our lives. If you want regulated living we are almost there and you will not have to worry about dangers of glycol anymore.


And for goodness sake, don't look behind the curtain

Example: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/02/briefing/3882b2_02_mcneil-nsai d .htm
2013-07-28 02:30:12 PM
1 votes:

HighZoolander: But, if the smoke is harmful to the smoker, and other forms of smoke are harmful when you breathe them in (from a wood fire, for example), I'd rather be cautious than carefree. It may be that the dose really matters, and secondhand smoke is too low a dose to be harmful to most people most of the time, but if that's right I wouldn't want to be one of the few people, and if it's wrong then I wouldn't want someone else to make the choice for me as to whether I'm exposed to it.


That's why when I did smoke real cigarettes, I still did my best to not smoke around non-smokers.  But, see, I made that choice all by myself and I didn't need a government body to tell me to do it.  I just naturally thought "It's kind of rude to force people to breath in my second hand smoke when I could just as easily walk about 20 yards that way and not be near anyone."  It had nothing to do with cancer risk or anything, I just wasn't trying to be a rude bastard.  It's bad enough you still smell like smoke when you walk over to rejoin your group, why compound it by making EVERYTHING smell like you?
2013-07-28 02:25:15 PM
1 votes:
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-07-28 02:19:39 PM
1 votes:

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


This could make an interesting thread on it's own.
2013-07-28 02:16:26 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?


Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe
2013-07-28 02:10:37 PM
1 votes:
ecigs have changed my life. After 30 years of smoking, and more unsuccessful attempts to quit than I can count, I can smell again, I breathe better, sleep better, have more stamina, good checkups with the doctor, on and on. Yes, I'm still addicted to nicotine, and statistically, yes, I will die sooner than someone who never smoked, but I have no intention of going to back to tobacco, until I can't buy ecigs anymore. For now, I'm enjoying the hell out of them.

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." -- H. L Mencken
2013-07-28 02:09:42 PM
1 votes:

Psycoholic_Slag: [images.cafepress.com image 480x480]


S-S-S-S-S-SUPERTROLL
2013-07-28 02:08:30 PM
1 votes:
images.cafepress.com
2013-07-28 02:01:06 PM
1 votes:

Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.


The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Bumblefark: /and, yeah...my post was just dripping with rage. Sorry if I frightened you. Need a hug?


Like I said. Pot. Try it. You might have a better life because of it.
2013-07-28 01:59:54 PM
1 votes:
They are trying to regulate them here in Oklahoma as well citing that nicotine is the main ingredient in regular smokes and thus, since it is in e-cigs it should be controlled.  They want to put the vapor lounges under control of the state's version of the ATF.  I don't know if they are beneficial or harmful like the article says not enough research has been done, but it seems that this would be a great attempt for the state to be able to set taxes higher on this if they can regulate it like regular smokes.
2013-07-28 01:58:25 PM
1 votes:

Thirty Foot Smurf: I suppose we should only offer insurance to those who take daily multivitamins, exercise at least an hour a day, strictly stick to 2,000-calorie, nutrient-rich diets, and swear off anything with high fructose corn syrup in it.  Alcohol is permissible as long as you maintain a sub-12% body fat markup at your monthly check-ups.  Also, limit your time outdoors due to any lingering emissions that may have a chance at perhaps one day causing breathing problems in twenty years.  We can't have you being less productive at work down the road, can we?


Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

I'm all for E-Cigs if it can deliver nicotine in a way that's not going to fry your heart and lungs.
2013-07-28 01:57:13 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: Sure.

And when will all you fat farks be doing the same?

Such anger at the fact that cigarette smoking is the single most common and modifiable risk factor in every Top-5 Cause of Death in the United States.

Maybe you should switch to pot. At least it'd take care of your anger, AND be safer for you thanks to cannabidiol's anti-tumor properties.


Eh, not what we were discussing sport. You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net. I was suggesting the same logic applies to the fatties.

/and, yeah...my post was just dripping with rage. Sorry if I frightened you. Need a hug?
2013-07-28 01:57:07 PM
1 votes:

Blazncheetah: Anyone have e-cig recommendations? Also where they get they liquid.
I've got an EGO-C and it seems very finicky. (This is after priming) Sometimes I get a smooth vape, other times I get a harsh vape.
I get my liquid from freedomsmokes which is not bad but would like to try other places.


try value vapor they are reasonable and fast shipping. your harshness some is from your atomizer going dry. keep it wet. if you do not use the dripping method try it out. you have much more control of how much you use and it keeps your atomizer wet and the harshness down.
2013-07-28 01:56:43 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Here. Sign this disclaimer that you won't use Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security to support yourself after you wind up farking up your farking body


I suppose we should only offer insurance to those who take daily multivitamins, exercise at least an hour a day, strictly stick to 2,000-calorie, nutrient-rich diets, and swear off anything with high fructose corn syrup in it.  Alcohol is permissible as long as you maintain a sub-12% body fat markup at your monthly check-ups.  Also, limit your time outdoors due to any lingering emissions that may have a chance at perhaps one day causing breathing problems in twenty years.  We can't have you being less productive at work down the road, can we?
2013-07-28 01:55:36 PM
1 votes:

skozlaw: Ral: It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps. It's all about controlling people.

Nobody every blew a cloud of sodomy in my face as I was minding my own business on the sidewalk so I really don't give a shait about that, but you just go ahead and make up whatever harebraned crap makes you feel superior, I guess.


Don't interrupt him! He just climbed up on that cross. Let's see what happens next!
2013-07-28 01:53:44 PM
1 votes:

FuzedBox: Excuse me? We brought the facts, you brought the ad-hominem. My turn: you're an ignorant farking douchenozzle; if you're going to look down your nose at us, at least have a reason why. Yes, we developed a nasty habit, but here's a solution that has worked for us and is believed by many experts to be safer, and my most of the population to be less obnoxious.

Get a life dude, and let us live ours.


What facts? No citations, no links? Just opinion like myself. I just Googled for a bit and found articles for and against secondhand vapors from electronic cigarettes. So the scientific debate is still going on. We'll just have to see how it works out since electronic cigarettes are SO new. A FDA study that found no harm was done in 2009. Dear Abby even used it to calm a worker's fears as her senior bosses used e-cigarettes around her all the time.

I simply have the opinion you should not use e-cigarettes in enclosed room with others about. It's a drug delivery system period. I don't care how safe you think it is for me, I don't want it around me on the off-chance it's not.

You can have your life. If the electronic cigarettes make your life better, cool. Just don't fark with mine by assuming it's perfectly safe for everyone. That's not your call.
2013-07-28 01:53:06 PM
1 votes:

Disgruntled Goat: I couldn't care less what smokers do to their own bodies. It's the smoke in the room, the stench permeating everything and the fact that smokers think it's okay to toss their used butts anywhere they please that pisses me off.


This times eleventy. You wanna use e-cigs, kill yourself with constricted arteries from nicotine, knock yourself out. As long as I don't have to smell it, who cares.

I'm a little concerned about marketing to minors; but are the health risks of ecigs less than tobacco? If so, the price might keep that from being an issue.
Ral
2013-07-28 01:51:27 PM
1 votes:

Barfmaker: Why would health nuts, or anyone, give a crap?


Because they disapprove and they don't want anyone else to be able to make their own life choices.  It's another manifestation of the busybodies who lie awake at night agonizing that someone, somewhere, might be doing something they don't approve of.

It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps.  It's all about controlling people.
2013-07-28 01:51:26 PM
1 votes:
Boy the anti smoking crowd are a bunch of stuck up little shiat heads. I knew they were a little stuck up and mighty righteous, wow I would rather sit with a smoker and cough all day then to listen to some shiat complain about people smoking and how it is ruining their health. I think smokers and non smokers should start a campaign against the self righteous anti smokers to ban public and private display of self righteousness. Oh anti smokers thanks for covering the cost of health care for smokers.
2013-07-28 01:50:30 PM
1 votes:

SecretAgentWoman: As a non-smoker, I'm clueless.

I'd like to get my sister an e-cig starter kit, but I have no clue where to start.

Help me out?


http://volcanoecigs.com  is a good starting point.   If she's wanting something like a regular cigarette to get started with, the Magma is probably a good choice.   The tobacco pure is a fairly good tobacco, but isn't really the same taste as smoking.  Their Menthol burst is fairly good if she's a menthol smoker.   I personally prefer their Vanilla.
2013-07-28 01:50:01 PM
1 votes:

Myria: Health nuts ought to be supporting these!  It's major harm reduction.  Nicotine isn't good for you, but generally, it's not what kills you in a cigarette.  If every smoker switched to e-cigarettes, the lung cancer and emphysema rate would drop like a rock, saving everyone a bunch of money.


I'm kind of curious to see what their effects on the rate of heart disease would be.
2013-07-28 01:49:47 PM
1 votes:

Blazncheetah: Anyone have e-cig recommendations? Also where they get they liquid.
I've got an EGO-C and it seems very finicky. (This is after priming) Sometimes I get a smooth vape, other times I get a harsh vape.
I get my liquid from freedomsmokes which is not bad but would like to try other places.


Johnson Creek Vea.
2013-07-28 01:49:19 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: Vodka Zombie: You probably don't want to know the number of mad carcinogens floating in the air around an airport. Lol!

I mostly hung around air bases, air force bases, air stations, army forts, army camps, navy air stations, navy bases, fleet training centers over my previous career.

As for carcinogens, we began getting hazardous communications training about halfway through my bit. So that helped make us more aware of chemical hazards beyond NBC stuff.

You sound very ignorant about military service. Are you still in middle school?


I don't know, chief. What education level does one need to be to piss themselves with fear over water vapor?

Also, middle school doesn't seem to teach the irrelevancies of military service, either.

Look, I know you think you're making some sort of point in trying to cover the ignorance you display in condemning people for something you know less than nothing about, but your silly little attacks really don't make you look
like anything other than a child.
2013-07-28 01:48:14 PM
1 votes:

Bumblefark: Sure.

And when will all you fat farks be doing the same?


Such anger at the fact that cigarette smoking is the single most common and modifiable risk factor in every Top-5 Cause of Death in the United States.

Maybe you should switch to pot. At least it'd take care of your anger, AND be safer for you thanks to cannabidiol's anti-tumor properties.
2013-07-28 01:44:14 PM
1 votes:

FuzedBox: Get a life dude, and let us live ours.


See, here's the problem. For the last 40 years that's all I really wanted from YOU. I don't care what you do in your house. I don't care what you do to yourself. That's not my business.

But you MADE it my business by dragging me into it when you started throwing that shiat out the window on the road, or dumping the ashes everywhere or, most importantly, blowing your shiat around in public.

So now my one and only attitude toward you is you can FOAD. I'll support bans against what you do purely out of spite at this point because for forty years you couldn't be even remotely respectful.

Don't like it?

Fark off.
2013-07-28 01:43:33 PM
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: Ok all you "we should ban everything besides eating green vegtables while wrapped in bubble wrap with a bicycle helmet on because of healthcare costs" types


You do realize that had tobacco cigarettes not been grandfathered in by the FDA, they never would have been approved for commercial sale with what is known today right?
2013-07-28 01:43:29 PM
1 votes:

Dr J Zoidberg: boinkingbill: Every time I see someone, male or female, smoking an e-cigarette the phrase:  "Total Dweep" comes to mind.  I always wonder, "Do they put water in a beer class and pretend that they are drinking beer?"

Is it water with alcohol in it? Because otherwise that's a stupid comparison


I used to have people in public telling me that they think e-cigs make you look stupid. It's totally irrelevant; it's healthier and more convenient to you and those around you. People that are quick to judge are great because you know that's one less person you don't need to associate with.
2013-07-28 01:42:34 PM
1 votes:

verbivore: I don't even care. Let them smoke them, if that's what it takes. I'd rather they do that, than have to walk through their reeking clouds, or be forced to share a conference room with them stinking like an ashtray. A few officemates smoke the e-cigs and it doesn't bother me in the least. Do some research and find out if bystanders are susceptible to the effluent, and I'll save a little rage for that, if the results warrant it.  What I care about is, when it affects me because I have to pay for their stupid diabetic amputations or lung biopsies or oxygen tents. Or walking through aforementioned noxious clouds. If they could keep it to themselves by forming their own health insurance pool with their own dollars, or not reek up my areas, I'd be all good with however they want to do themselves in.

/25 year smoker, 1 to 3 packs a day, nothing I say here that I didn't agree with while I smoked.


Well then, please ask people to stop having children, as I don't want to pay for the kids who are damaged from birth or have genetic diseases.  Or the broken bones from falling out of trees, or falling off their bikes.  Or tell people to stop getting old, as broken hips cost me money too.  Nobody can drive either, as traffic collisions cost me insurance dollars too.  Or those people who use oxygen.  Because those things can blow up and cost me in homeowners insurance if they live next to me.  And turn down your ipod, because you need a hearing aid, that'll cost me cash too.

No barbeques either.  I don't want to breath that charcoal and lighter fluid.
2013-07-28 01:42:08 PM
1 votes:
Ok all you "we should ban everything besides eating green vegtables while wrapped in bubble wrap with a bicycle helmet on because of healthcare costs" types I have a question for you, anal sex spreads STDs easier than vaginal and there is how many brazilians of dollars spent on caring for peoplenwith AIDs and the like.... So should we reinstate anti sodomy laws because of the health care costs of STDs?
2013-07-28 01:37:06 PM
1 votes:

cman: Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.


Here. Sign this disclaimer that you won't use Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security to support yourself after you wind up farking up your farking body.
2013-07-28 01:33:23 PM
1 votes:

Carth: mooseyfate: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.

car2go has it right on their website, zipcar will say no ecigs when you call. Hilton won't let you use any smoking devices which include ecigs in any of their non smoking rooms.


I'd like to apologize, I hadn't read through the rest of the thread when I responded to your post. I had no idea the rest of the world was doing this. I live in Louisiana and have never been asked to stop using my e-cig anywhere. I've never seen signs posted anywhere that prohibit e-cig use or seen rental car agencies prohibiting it either. I've also never seen it anywhere on the Gulf Coast, even in hospitals or government buildings. The concept of an e-cig being considered the same thing as a regular cigarette is still unheard down here. Wow. That's still pretty unbelievable.
2013-07-28 01:30:00 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Smoke up and die, already, before universal healthcare comes along and makes us all pay for your stupidity.

/Quit twelve years ago.


Couple of things:
1) So you've already damaged your health by smoking. Do you voluntarily pay more into the system to cover that?
2) You could use this logic with every aspect of lifestyle. Where do you draw the line at which it is OK for one to be living a lifestyle that is more costly to society than another? You know, prior to the point where we're all eating tofu and locked in padded underground rooms.

/don't smoke
//find the anti-smoking crowd 1000x more annoying than the smokers
2013-07-28 01:24:05 PM
1 votes:

Carth: mooseyfate: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.

car2go has it right on their website, zipcar will say no ecigs when you call. Hilton won't let you use any smoking devices which include ecigs in any of their non smoking rooms.




Who is going to tell Hilton? You also aren't supposed to smoke weed out of their apples.
2013-07-28 01:22:19 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)


How do you feel about people exhaling carbon dioxide into enclosed rooms?
2013-07-28 01:20:21 PM
1 votes:

mooseyfate: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.


car2go has it right on their website, zipcar will say no ecigs when you call. Hilton won't let you use any smoking devices which include ecigs in any of their non smoking rooms.
2013-07-28 01:17:51 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.


Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)
2013-07-28 01:10:22 PM
1 votes:

Thirty Foot Smurf: As much as I applaud the obvious and undeniable public health benefit of eliminating tobacco/electronic nicotine use, I am wary of what will take place once the battle against it is won.  There's not going to be a point where the public is "healthy enough" and the efforts to curb "unhealthy" habits will cease.  Something else will be a target, and I'm sure somehow the righteous indignation will still prevail once alcohol becomes demonized as a threat to health and general productivity in the same manner as nicotine products have.

/Really fun at parties
//Tobacco-less since February 6, 2012


I think we've already seen the opening shots on what will be the next front for the health crusaders. Junk food. Actually, I figure that is going to be the backdoor by which they'll get back to the issue of alcohol. (The direct route was sort of cut off by the lingering disrepute of Prohibition.)
2013-07-28 01:02:54 PM
1 votes:

Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.


You're full of shiat. Provide names of restaurants and rental car places, I'd love to speak with them personally about this bullshiat claim you're making.

/I use my e-cig EVERYWHERE and have never had anyone do anything beyond asking what it is or if I like it.
//and that's including a court room. In session.
2013-07-28 01:00:38 PM
1 votes:

vegas_greaser: katerbug72: vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.

Well, that's bullshiat. Why lump e-cigs in there?

The company's official explanation was that they were unsure of the safety of e-cigs and that they still included nicotine, and other chemicals and therefore were Tobacco products.


The UC system says the ban is because they are "unregulated".  Only reason.
2013-07-28 12:58:39 PM
1 votes:

skozlaw: Vodka Zombie: You do know that they and other nightshades also contain nicotine, right?

You often vaporize your tomatoes or are you just generally retarded?


Every time you cook them, idiot.  Love the smell of your spaghetti?
2013-07-28 12:58:27 PM
1 votes:

skozlaw: Vodka Zombie: You do know that they and other nightshades also contain nicotine, right?

You often vaporize your tomatoes or are you just generally retarded?


I have a steaming pot of sauce on the stove, so....

I'll also be grilling some eggplant and peppers later.

My goodness!!!

Tell me again who it is who is "generally retarded?"
2013-07-28 12:56:38 PM
1 votes:

katerbug72: vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.

Well, that's bullshiat. Why lump e-cigs in there?


The company's official explanation was that they were unsure of the safety of e-cigs and that they still included nicotine, and other chemicals and therefore were Tobacco products.
2013-07-28 12:49:58 PM
1 votes:

FuzedBox: Spanky McStupid: Ungarlmek: I'm using my vapor kit right now. It's fantastic.

Does it have the same "flavor" as a regular cig?  Thinking about getting one.

You just stumbled onto the proverbial Achilles Heel of vaping; very few tobacco flavors are any good. I found a few that I liked, chief among them being 'Tobacco Pure' from Volcano. The problem with Volcano is that their juices are kinda pricey.


I never found a tobacco flavor that I liked, but I found other flavors I liked better.  Johnson Creek sells samples you can try first.  I suggest doing that first.  The Vea is a good device - if you're a fairly serious smoker, stay away from the Blu and like cigs. They don't deliver the feel you want.  The Vea is kind of a midrange between serious vaping and the baby e cigs.  And it's cheap too, far cheaper than the Blu's and much more satisfying.

(I've tried several.  I stopped once I got the Vea).
2013-07-28 12:47:28 PM
1 votes:

rga184: Infernalist: rga184: Infernalist: rga184: Infernalist: gfid: Saberus Terras: Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

I have no problem with that.  Their restaurant, their rules.  And just because some company puts something on their product doesn't mean it carries the weight of law.

This is what really gets me about the e-cig fanatics.  "Oh, it's just water vapor".  Oh really?  Then why is it delivering nicotine too?  And how do you know it's not also delivering a thousand other chemicals directly to your lungs?

"Well, the company who makes them said so!"

Because a lot of people out there aren't farking retarded and understand how to take samples of something and learn what exactly is in it.

You have an HPLC machine in your house or something. I know how to take samples of stuff and learn what's in it, but I certainly don't have the equipment to do that at home. Do you propose the average e-cig smoker does?

No, but I do have this thing called the 'personal computer' and I use it to great benefit.  You should consider googling that shiat.

I see, your tone implied that if you don't understand how to take samples of something you're "farking retarded", so I assumed you were implying that YOU knew how to do that and so did non "farking retarded" e-cig users. My mistake.

On the other hand, you understand that if you don't know how to take samples of stuff and learn what's in it, you're calling yourself farking retarded too, right? You should have just written that there's people out there who are not farking retarded who know how to google shiat ...


I'm glad to see that you've figured out that whole 'personal computer' thing.  Glad to see I could help you grasp how to research basic information.
2013-07-28 12:46:46 PM
1 votes:

Researcher: There's a lot of misconceptions by people who dont vape about what is in the liquid... I've even had someone indignantly tell me they were allergic; you can imagine my incredulity when I told them it was Vegetable Glycerin and if they were rocking an allergy to that, they weren't long for this world. Some people just want attention...


BUT there is a problem with people vaping mystery liquid. I get my juice at a shop where anyone can watch them make it. They list the ingredients on every bottle.

Hell, the stuff is stone simple, you can just make it yourself... but like most conveniences, people are willing to pay. Just know where you're getting your stuff. This is basic, common sense, that people apply rigorously to everything else. You wouldn't buy a can of soda that doesn't have ingredients listed on it... I don't know why you wouldn't police to the same level something you're going to breath.

Not to shill, but I'm a big fan of The Vapor Trail, but for full fairness there's like 3-6 other Vape shops in my city... so yeah.


You're lucky... There are very few 'brick and mortar' vape shops around the country. I don't mean to shill either, but here's a list of good brands/search terms for anyone interested in getting into vaping: Volcano (great for starters), iTaste, Joye, Provari (a high end device), eGo, Johsnon Creek Vapor, Halo Vapor, Backwoods Brew  and Gotvapes.

There's also lots of great forums out there to help out; e-cigs get much more complicated the more you delve into them. ECF is an all around great place to find information.
2013-07-28 12:42:47 PM
1 votes:

23FPB23: This thread is Big Ol Bag O Dicks.



FTFM

/need refills for my e-cig
2013-07-28 12:39:48 PM
1 votes:

Sinclair.laker: Relatively Obscure: Don't taunt them, subby.  Enough people are already inclined to try to further control the sale of ecigs.

THIS - 100 times THIS...

The Airlines have already jumped on the "It's just like smoking!" bandwagon...


For chrissake, just palm the damn thing and discretely inhale. Hold your breath so that there's no cloud of vapor from an immediate exhalation. There is no real smoke - no one can smell anything. Who is going to rat you out? (Especially if you get a 'stealth" version that doesn't light up.)
2013-07-28 12:39:47 PM
1 votes:

rga184: Infernalist: rga184: Infernalist: gfid: Saberus Terras: Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

I have no problem with that.  Their restaurant, their rules.  And just because some company puts something on their product doesn't mean it carries the weight of law.

This is what really gets me about the e-cig fanatics.  "Oh, it's just water vapor".  Oh really?  Then why is it delivering nicotine too?  And how do you know it's not also delivering a thousand other chemicals directly to your lungs?

"Well, the company who makes them said so!"

Because a lot of people out there aren't farking retarded and understand how to take samples of something and learn what exactly is in it.

You have an HPLC machine in your house or something. I know how to take samples of stuff and learn what's in it, but I certainly don't have the equipment to do that at home. Do you propose the average e-cig smoker does?

No, but I do have this thing called the 'personal computer' and I use it to great benefit.  You should consider googling that shiat.

I see, your tone implied that if you don't understand how to take samples of something you're "farking retarded", so I assumed you were implying that YOU knew how to do that and so did non "farking retarded" e-cig users. My mistake.

On the other hand, you understand that if you don't know how to take samples of stuff and learn what's in it, you're calling yourself farking retarded too, right? You should have just written that there's people out there who are not farking retarded who know how to google shiat to find out what's ...


How's that googling working out for you?
2013-07-28 12:38:52 PM
1 votes:
This thread ia Big Ol Bad O Dicks.
2013-07-28 12:37:04 PM
1 votes:

gfid: Uranus Is Huge!: Reputable brands list their ingredients. Many people also mix their own.

Citation needed.

Really, just give us one example.  All the flavored e-liquids?  They only say how much nicotine is in them and whether it's PG or VG from what I've seen.  I suggested to one supplier that they might want to offer a non-flavored e-juice.  They seemed surprised.  WTF do they think people are using it for?  I'd bet most of us are just nicotine junkies and could give a flying fark about the taste which is probably mostly benzene anyway.


My brand: PDF
2013-07-28 12:35:08 PM
1 votes:
I think these e-cigarettes are a great idea though I question the wisdom of where some people order their nicotine from. A guy a work has it delivered from China for example. Who knows what the hell is in that crap. He could be swapping one carcinogen delivery mechanism for another.
2013-07-28 12:31:50 PM
1 votes:
The only drawback I see to e-cigs is a lot less smokers will go outside to smoke.  The reduction in fresh air, sunshine, and social mingling with strangers will be greatly missed.

/non-smoker
//Always hangs out with the smokers outside
2013-07-28 12:29:52 PM
1 votes:
Best of all, I can fart everywhere and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
2013-07-28 12:26:57 PM
1 votes:
I make my own juice. I make my own coils.
There HAVE been serious studies done.

My favorite anti-e-cig report was the doctor that said the coils heat up to thousands of degrees. He was forced to admit that was retarded.
2013-07-28 12:23:23 PM
1 votes:

rga184: Infernalist: gfid: Saberus Terras: Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

I have no problem with that.  Their restaurant, their rules.  And just because some company puts something on their product doesn't mean it carries the weight of law.

This is what really gets me about the e-cig fanatics.  "Oh, it's just water vapor".  Oh really?  Then why is it delivering nicotine too?  And how do you know it's not also delivering a thousand other chemicals directly to your lungs?

"Well, the company who makes them said so!"

Because a lot of people out there aren't farking retarded and understand how to take samples of something and learn what exactly is in it.

You have an HPLC machine in your house or something. I know how to take samples of stuff and learn what's in it, but I certainly don't have the equipment to do that at home. Do you propose the average e-cig smoker does?


No, but I do have this thing called the 'personal computer' and I use it to great benefit.  You should consider googling that shiat.
2013-07-28 12:20:40 PM
1 votes:
I love how they're REALLY heavily advertising the stuff around NYC.  It must drive Bloomberg nuts.  And it's always fun to watch that shiathead throw a tantrum.
2013-07-28 12:19:25 PM
1 votes:
I love my Micro Vaped Pen. Granted I'm not using it for nicotine consumption, but it's a straight-up game changer.
2013-07-28 12:17:42 PM
1 votes:

DubyaHater: I don't know much about the e-cigs and I certainly DNRTFA. I would think an e-cig habit is rather cost prohibitive. My guess is a pack of e-cigs cost 10x a pack of cigarettes.


Your guess is incredibly wrong.  I spend half as much on e-cigs as I did on cigarettes; and I live in an area of the country where cigarettes are fairly inexpensive.

katerbug72: vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.

Well, that's bullshiat. Why lump e-cigs in there?


Greed.  That, and nicotine is still poison.

Barfmaker: Why would health nuts, or anyone, give a crap?


The argument I've seen is that behaviorally, use of an e-cig is similar to an actual cigarette; and that somehow by allowing or condoning e-cig use it subconsciously sends a message that actual smoking is ok as well.

There is a fine argument to be made here.  E-cigs are a tool to help smokers quit smoking.  It's the only thing that has worked for me.  But that's the point, that you're supposed to ultimately quit altogether.  If you're using it as a replacement for tobacco, then you still have a problem.  It is less dangerous to yourself and others than smoking, but vaping is still unhealthy at its core.  Nicotine is not good for you in any way, shape, or form.  You can step down to a point where the 'juice' you are vaping has no nicotine in it, but even then, any activity done to excess is likely a bad thing.  All that being said, the idea that vaping must be treated exactly like actual smoking is incredibly ignorant.  It is not smoking.  If you put a bunch of smokers in a tiny room, and they all light up, eventually the room ends up being filled with smoke.  If you put a bunch of vapers in a room, and they are all vaping, nothing happens.
2013-07-28 12:17:31 PM
1 votes:
Actually Id prefer it if you did that,  I have no problem with these e cigs right now as they aren't proven to be harmful.  In fact I have no problem with regular cigs as long as your on private property and the owner of said property properly gives warning of smoking inside so consumers can make an informed decision.

The only problem I have is when people have no choice to interact with smokers causing cancer from second hand smoke.  Its no different then me going around with a needle and injecting people with AIDS.
2013-07-28 12:16:18 PM
1 votes:

gfid: Infernalist: Go check your mail.  Maybe someone sent you some completely unlabeled food for you to eat.

Don't be an idiot.  Cigarettes don't have ingredient labels.  "E-liquid" doesn't either.

When I said it was unlabeled, obviously I meant it was not marked as a specific brand.

As I've pointed out already in this thread one problem with e-cigs is that we don't know what's in the e-liquid and it mostly comes from China - a country where mothers are desperate to import baby formula from other countries because they don't trust their own factories to provide a safe product.

I'm one of the few people here saying that e-cigs might not be safe.  OTOH, I'm not going to get all militant about that and the food I eat.

/cooking up some grub now.  It's labeled, but I didn't look at the label.  It probably has a boatload of sodium in it.  I'm going to die eventually, but I won't die today


Again, Johnson Creek Smoke Juice.  USA made.
2013-07-28 12:14:32 PM
1 votes:

gfid: Infernalist: Go check your mail.  Maybe someone sent you some completely unlabeled food for you to eat.

Don't be an idiot.  Cigarettes don't have ingredient labels.  "E-liquid" doesn't either.

When I said it was unlabeled, obviously I meant it was not marked as a specific brand.

As I've pointed out already in this thread one problem with e-cigs is that we don't know what's in the e-liquid and it mostly comes from China - a country where mothers are desperate to import baby formula from other countries because they don't trust their own factories to provide a safe product.

I'm one of the few people here saying that e-cigs might not be safe.  OTOH, I'm not going to get all militant about that and the food I eat.

/cooking up some grub now.  It's labeled, but I didn't look at the label.  It probably has a boatload of sodium in it.  I'm going to die eventually, but I won't die today


You hope.
2013-07-28 12:13:46 PM
1 votes:

zabadu: Infernalist: zabadu: RickN99: Infernalist: AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

But not an e-cig.  That nicotine-laced vapor will kill your entire family.

You're an idiot.

Did you think he was being serious?

It's hard to tell the retards from the idiots.


Harder for some than for others, apparently.  Unless, of course, you sincerely thought he was accusing e-cigs of being family killing devices.

Nevermind, don't answer that.  I'm dangerously close to breaking my 'don't give a fark.'
2013-07-28 12:11:46 PM
1 votes:

FuzedBox: the liquid only contains FDA approved falvoring


Nope

I can tell you why they decided to use DEG, too - it acts as a solvent. Massengill discovered that DEG is great for making liquid solutions of Sulfanilamide, which would be great, if DEG didn't cause kidney failure.

I bet that's exactly why the e-cigarette manufacturer used it - they wanted a specific flavor they couldn't suspend in other solutions and figured that since they were unregulated, no one would know.

I have no problem with e-cigs, but the people who make just about any product are NOT your friend and WILL get away with what they can.
2013-07-28 12:11:00 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: zabadu: RickN99: Infernalist: AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

But not an e-cig.  That nicotine-laced vapor will kill your entire family.

You're an idiot.

Did you think he was being serious?


It's hard to tell the retards from the idiots.
2013-07-28 12:09:36 PM
1 votes:

zabadu: RickN99: Infernalist: AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

But not an e-cig.  That nicotine-laced vapor will kill your entire family.

You're an idiot.


Did you think he was being serious?
2013-07-28 12:08:04 PM
1 votes:

RickN99: Infernalist: AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

But not an e-cig.  That nicotine-laced vapor will kill your entire family.


You're an idiot.
2013-07-28 12:05:27 PM
1 votes:

RickN99: Infernalist: AirForceVet: Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too. I don't see you running around trying to ban people from eating ridiculously spicy foods.

When do habaneros and other hot peppers emit a drug-laced vapor, i.e. nicotine, that others can inhale? Just farkin' use a patch or chew the gum.

And don't rationalize your behavior, FuzedBox, Yes, caffeine is a drug also. But people don't farkin' smoke it and emit it in vapor around the room. They primarily drink it.

I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.

Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

But not an e-cig.  That nicotine-laced vapor will kill your entire family.


No shiat, right?

It's sad that I can't tell the pretend-retards from the actual retards on this site anymore.
2013-07-28 12:02:59 PM
1 votes:
Jesus Farking Christ: Joe Camel here, backing the fark off. Congrats in all sincerity. Hope you are feeling better (Santana).
2013-07-28 12:02:40 PM
1 votes:

Zugswang: The only problem I can think of is that the glycerol that's used in the liquid inserts can aggravate users' mucous membranes.  And before you say, "don't regular cigarettes do that, too?", the answer is yes, but I've had a few patients that switched to e-cigs complain that they get a burning sensation in their esophagus that they didn't get with regular cigs, that's very likely caused by the vaporized glycerol.

That being said, if these really only affect the individual using it, and has no effect on people around them, then they are grown-ass adults, and they can make their own decisions about that.


The solution is simple: you can buy juices that have only propylene glycol (PG), or vegetable glycerin (vg/glycerol), or have differing ratios of the two. In my experience, PG only is the way to go, others' mileage may vary; the opposite can be true with anyone.
2013-07-28 12:00:53 PM
1 votes:
I smoked for almost 20 years, and the only thing that has worked so far is the patch and a new pair of actual running shoes. Doing my first 5k in November for a lung cancer charity for some karma points.
2013-07-28 11:55:22 AM
1 votes:
I have been smoke free for almost 3 months tanks to my PV and quality US made juice, after 17 years of smoking. Started at 36mg nicotine and am down to 10mg. Haven't had a single craving since day 2, and I am not chain-vaping all day either. It's quite remarkable how well this works if you have the right gear and juice.
2013-07-28 11:51:35 AM
1 votes:

Infernalist: gfid: Infernalist: gfid: buzzcut73: I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it.

I've used e-cigs for over a year.  I have a few no-name brand cigs  from a marketing experiment left over and I farking love those things.  e-cigs suck.  Still, not surprised that you didn't like Marlboro Lights - worst cigarette ever.

Yeah, the no-name cigarettes are no-name.  They mailed them to me and they came in a plain white box with no label.  I'm going to read the rest of this thread and then step outside to smoke one of them and I'm sure I'll love it.

Darwinism at its finest.

Meh - I don't think one more cigarette will kill me.  I used to smoke 2 packs a day and I'm not dead yet.  It takes a long time and even then most smokers don't die from cigarette-related problems.

I might not even smoke that real cigarette.  I'm actually getting hungry now.  I'll probably eat something horribly unhealthy while I puff on my e-cig which probably contains the worst carcinogens man has yet to identify.

Go check your mail.  Maybe someone sent you some completely unlabeled food for you to eat.


Reputable brands list their ingredients. Many people also mix their own.
2013-07-28 11:48:56 AM
1 votes:

alexjoss: I went from smoking 1 to 1 1/2 packs a day to under 5 a day using my new Vaping kit--which costs 50 bucks.   Monthly maintenance and buying more nicotine costs about 20 a month--a savings of $150 per month!  I can sneak a vape anywhere when it's absolutely necessary.  I flew a few weeks ago and Southwest airlines bans their use--I think I could have sneaked one in the bathroom but didn't want to risk the whole federal "interfering with a flight crew" charge, so I didn't.  But it worked in the airport restrooms when I was stranded for 5 hours in freaking Newark!


Oh, this. I had a 2 hour layover at O'Hare turn into 28 hours back in May. Having the e-cig and USB charger in my backpack (along with my laptop) made it slightly less miserable, because I didn't have to worry about going in and out through security if I needed a little nicotine. I just cupped the thing in my hand and took a hit somewhere relatively quiet. Again, I'm so glad to be off of regular cigarettes for a lot of reasons, and airports are one of them. I just don't make it really obvious, and if approached and told I should do that, a polite "Oh, sorry. Didn't know they weren't allowed" usually suffices.
2013-07-28 11:48:49 AM
1 votes:

gfid: Infernalist: gfid: buzzcut73: I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it.

I've used e-cigs for over a year.  I have a few no-name brand cigs  from a marketing experiment left over and I farking love those things.  e-cigs suck.  Still, not surprised that you didn't like Marlboro Lights - worst cigarette ever.

Yeah, the no-name cigarettes are no-name.  They mailed them to me and they came in a plain white box with no label.  I'm going to read the rest of this thread and then step outside to smoke one of them and I'm sure I'll love it.

Darwinism at its finest.

Meh - I don't think one more cigarette will kill me.  I used to smoke 2 packs a day and I'm not dead yet.  It takes a long time and even then most smokers don't die from cigarette-related problems.

I might not even smoke that real cigarette.  I'm actually getting hungry now.  I'll probably eat something horribly unhealthy while I puff on my e-cig which probably contains the worst carcinogens man has yet to identify.


Go check your mail.  Maybe someone sent you some completely unlabeled food for you to eat.
2013-07-28 11:47:22 AM
1 votes:

Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.


I wonder if the issue with some restaurant is more a matter of courtesy than anything else. What I mean is, it's not generally socially acceptable to use a toothpick at the table in a restaurant while people around you are eating. Is the e-cig that much different otherwise?

I'm frankly not against people using e-cigs around me as long as the vapor isn't harmful to me and as long as there is no smell. Especially if it helps them quit real cigarettes altogether. Perhaps with that goal in mind, we as a society should give extra leeway to e-cigs that we don't afford to others. Perhaps we can allow them to smoke them in airplanes (again, assuming the vapor is not harmful) and in restaurants to give people an incentive to switch to e-cigs and be able to get their fix in situations where they would have otherwise had to either wait or go outside in the cold/rain/heat/sun etc.
2013-07-28 11:46:06 AM
1 votes:

Molavian: Nut up and quit, f*ckers.  It's only hard for the first few days.


There's a lot of phallic symbolism in this lil troll post.  Makes me wonder about you, son.
2013-07-28 11:45:05 AM
1 votes:

Fuggin Bizzy: Personally, I love the idea. Maybe they're not "safe," necessarily, but classical cigarettes are pretty farking damaging. It would be tough for e-cigs to be worse. Most likely, they're less harmful.

/Non-smoker. Non-scientist.


The nicotine itself has been shown to have health benefits in the form of keeping dementia and Alzheimers at lower risks of occurrence.  As long as the flavorings aren't toxic when inhaled (and most are already fda approved for ingestion), the e-cigs might actually be beneficial.
2013-07-28 11:44:21 AM
1 votes:
Nut up and quit, f*ckers.  It's only hard for the first few days.
2013-07-28 11:42:20 AM
1 votes:

zabadu: JungleBoogie: • A thorough evaluation of the health effects is warranted.

• It is almost certainly less damaging than tobacco smoke.

• Tobacco companies will lobby ferociously against this product if it looks to cut into their profits.

• On the other hand, folks should stop farking their lungs up. Switch to nicotine gum or some such IMO.

Tobacco companies are jumping on the e cig bandwagon because they are losing smokers to the devices.  Marlboro will be releasing one soon.  So the future of actual cigarettes is already in jeopardy.


That is the one good thing about corporations: They'll abandon a filthy product like cigs if they can make money off of a better product.

Of course, it's sad that I'm pleased that our real life corporations don't function like a bunch of Captain Planet cartoon villains.
2013-07-28 11:39:35 AM
1 votes:

Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.


Except that smoking eCigs has no smell, no residue, and leaves no filth like second-hand smoke.

Nice troll attempt.
2013-07-28 11:39:11 AM
1 votes:

JungleBoogie: • A thorough evaluation of the health effects is warranted.

• It is almost certainly less damaging than tobacco smoke.

• Tobacco companies will lobby ferociously against this product if it looks to cut into their profits.

• On the other hand, folks should stop farking their lungs up. Switch to nicotine gum or some such IMO.


Tobacco companies are jumping on the e cig bandwagon because they are losing smokers to the devices.  Marlboro will be releasing one soon.  So the future of actual cigarettes is already in jeopardy.
2013-07-28 11:38:54 AM
1 votes:
Personally, I love the idea. Maybe they're not "safe," necessarily, but classical cigarettes are pretty farking damaging. It would be tough for e-cigs to be worse. Most likely, they're less harmful.

/Non-smoker. Non-scientist.
2013-07-28 11:36:57 AM
1 votes:

DoughyGuy: I guess in the grand scheme of things I'm better off.


Yes, you're better off. My Dad's wife, who hadn't smoked in 10 years, started using eCigs after he father died unexpectedly. She's back to a pack a day of the real thing now and is just kicking herself over it.
2013-07-28 11:35:03 AM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Saberus Terras: Just watch, the tobacco lobbyists will feed your politicians rigged studies showing how e-cigs are dangerous to their users and somehow to bystanders, then blam, even stricter regulations on e-cigs than ol' tabacco.

And good luck trying to vap anywhere that's non-smoking.  Restauranteurs, receptionists, office managers... not a single one of them will care, it looks like a cig, so it's a cig.  Even if they did, they know that some dipshiat patron won't know the difference and will raise unholy hell over it, so they won't let you.

From personal experience, most e-cig users use the same propriety and protocol that goes along with cigs.  You don't do it in a non-smoker's home, you don't do it in a public place and you don't do it in a place labeled as 'non-smoking.'  Since they're all ex-smokers, it's not like it's a great change in their behavior at all.  I've never seen a e-cig user get upset about not being able to use a vape in a place where they've never been able to smoke before.


My wife's first e-cig was after I got out of the hospital from my lung surgery (walking pneumonia turned pleural effusion, all the doctors agreed it had nothing to do with second-hand smoke).

Plastered all over the package was the promise that you could vap anywhere, anytime, since it's not a cigarette.  We went to a restaurant for our anniversary and she brought it with her, and she had it out when our waitress came to get drink orders, waitress said there was no smoking allowed, wife told her it wasn't smoke, just water vapor.  Waitress talks to manager, manager comes out with "I don't care if it farts gold dust, you will not smoke that in here."

She tried, but after that, just stuck to no-smoking signs also meaning "We're dipshiats who can't tell the difference."
2013-07-28 11:33:51 AM
1 votes:

Mnemia: The one issue I might have with these things is that they obviously are still addictive, since they deliver nicotine. So the question is whether they are actually going to be effective long term in helping people quit. It seems to me that as long as the person is addicted to nicotine, and to the ritual of smoking, there is a strong potential that they will revert to smoking.


Even people who have quit present a danger of lapsing back into smoking. That never goes away.

If the desire to stop damaging one's body can be imprinted in a smoker, and a safe way to get the hit is provided, that's probably the best way to stop a health-conscious person from lapsing back into smoking. Even if they quit entirely, if they do lapse, they can lapse onto a safe nicotine delivery system.
2013-07-28 11:31:39 AM
1 votes:
My company recently went with a no smoking policy. As in zero tolerance, E-cigs included. They were letting people smoke the e-cigs inside prior to the no smoking policy. Now there is no smoking on the property, period.

This of course drives the smokers nuts. They planned on getting in their cars and driving around the block on breaks and at lunch. Much to their chagrin, the company also instituted two additional policies. No leaving the property. They can get away with this because they started paying us for our lunch break, so no leaving the property when you are on the clock. The other policy is no going outside without managerial permission. You can go get something from your car, but the supervisor has to OK it and will watch you.

So now they hide their E-cigs and sneak around the plant, smoking behind various equipment. It's funny to watch
2013-07-28 11:30:29 AM
1 votes:
I'm anxiously awaiting the development of eFood and eBooze.
2013-07-28 11:29:30 AM
1 votes:

buzzcut73: Carth: e-cigarettes are already banned in a good number restaurants around me and all car rental/non smoking hotel rooms.

It is time smokers realize it has never been about your health it is about punishing you for your filthy habit. If you want to smoke you can do it outside in the rain 30 feet from the nearest door.

Yeah, the people that want to ban these too have shown their true colors. It is more of a "Stop liking things that I don't like" than a health issue. I do have to wonder how they're going to know you've been using an e-cig in a rental car or hotel room though. I do it, I just make sure to not use juice that has a strong tobacco scent to it and don't take a drag off of the thing within the last few miles before dropping the rental car off, it has never been an issue.

I've been on e-cigs for a year and a half now.  I tried one Marlboro light when I was drinking with some friends a couple of months back, I -hated- it. Took two drags and threw it in the fire. I'm done with regular smokes thanks to my e-cig, and I'm very happy with that. No more hacking cough, no more smelling like an ashtray (I can't believe I used to smell like that!) and no more yellow fingers.


Good on ya!

ecigs with the fruit flavors mixed with a little mint is actually kinda nice.

I tried my buddy's pomegranate mix and it was really tastey. I don't smoke and don't own an ecig, but if you need nicotine it seems like the most interesting way to get it.
2013-07-28 11:19:51 AM
1 votes:

Ohlookabutterfly: cman: Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.

We don't care what you choose to insert up your ass, just don't expect us to recognize you as some sort of special minority simply because you want to define yourself by your sexual proclivities.

Me, I see myself as a hard working, productive, tax paying member of society.
You, you see yourself as a sodomite.

Well done. As a group you have successfully bullied western society into accepting your definition of marriage and mate using political correctness, shame tactics, and a non existent group of wandering gay bashers that none of you have ever actually encountered.


video.mail.ru
2013-07-28 11:18:44 AM
1 votes:
I went from smoking 1 to 1 1/2 packs a day to under 5 a day using my new Vaping kit--which costs 50 bucks.   Monthly maintenance and buying more nicotine costs about 20 a month--a savings of $150 per month!  I can sneak a vape anywhere when it's absolutely necessary.  I flew a few weeks ago and Southwest airlines bans their use--I think I could have sneaked one in the bathroom but didn't want to risk the whole federal "interfering with a flight crew" charge, so I didn't.  But it worked in the airport restrooms when I was stranded for 5 hours in freaking Newark!
2013-07-28 11:17:31 AM
1 votes:

cman: Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.


We don't care what you choose to insert up your ass, just don't expect us to recognize you as some sort of special minority simply because you want to define yourself by your sexual proclivities.

Me, I see myself as a hard working, productive, tax paying member of society.
You, you see yourself as a sodomite.

Well done. As a group you have successfully bullied western society into accepting your definition of marriage and mate using political correctness, shame tactics, and a non existent group of wandering gay bashers that none of you have ever actually encountered.
2013-07-28 11:14:58 AM
1 votes:

Friend of the Devil: It can't be as bad as smoking, right? And even so, I'll just sticked to modified BHO pen...


It's nicotine without the unholy crap that they put into cigs to make them so addictive, with a water vapor byproduct.

There's no smoke, there's no stink, no cancer-causing agents and users can slowly decrease the nicotine they're taking in, over time.
2013-07-28 11:13:35 AM
1 votes:
"Patients have come in and say, 'Gee, I've tried this new form of cigarette. It's great. I'm smoking a non-toxic form of cigarette,'" said Dr. Neil Schachter, a lung doctor in New York,. "I say to them ... 'I don't know if this is non-toxic.'"

A million times this!

Hey, I switched to e-cigs, but this e-liquid crap I buy?  How the hell do I know what's in it?  The fact is, I don't.

It's made in farking China - the country that put poison in baby formula.  It could contain all sorts of shiat.  Sometimes I wonder if I'd be healthier if I just went out and bought a pack of real cigarettes.

Of course, the healthiest thing to do would be to give it up altogether, but that's difficult.

It's certainly not as satisfying as an actual cigarette.  I'm constantly charging the farking e-cigs and refilling them so it's not more convenient.   If I still actually smoked, it would be trivial to pull out a cigarette and light it and I would instantly feel the nicotine (and 1000 other chemicals) hit me and I would be momentarily satisfied.

They are cheaper though and I don't really give a fark if I die, so I've got that going for me.
2013-07-28 11:12:44 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: berylman: I notice that a Nuvo e-cig advertisement popped at the top of the Fark bar at the same time as this thread. Never seen that before and I don't smoke or no reason to be marketed to.  Any one else get this or just a coincidence?

Me too. Coincidentally just after I posted in this thread. Drew, did you let PRISM get onto Fark again?


And that is why I don't feed the fark squirrel.  I don't need bukkake ads showing up in the corner.
2013-07-28 11:10:48 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: Eating habaneros and other hot peppers can have side effects too


Wait, is there such a thing as secondhand habanero vapor? Can I see the study?
2013-07-28 11:09:32 AM
1 votes:

vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.


Well, that's bullshiat. Why lump e-cigs in there?
2013-07-28 11:07:59 AM
1 votes:

simusid: cigs are going up $1 per pack next week in MA.   I have multiple friends who want to quit smoking in order to save money.   They are all using e-cigs.   I don't care if it works or if it saves money.   I'm buying stock in e-cig companies!


I wonder what they would tax to make up for the loss of all that money if all the smokers suddenly gave up smoking?
2013-07-28 11:06:47 AM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: Infernalist: Finally got an old friend to quit by pushing her to these.  She no longer smells nor tastes like an ashtray,

Exactly how often are you tasting your friend?


Not nearly often enough, she's a cutie.
2013-07-28 11:03:28 AM
1 votes:
My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.
Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.
2013-07-28 11:00:58 AM
1 votes:
Do you smokers know what chemicals they're using in those e-cigs? Sure, it seems healthier because there's no smoke, but you're still willingly inhaling carcinogens just to stick it to us non-smokers. That, to me, is hilarious.
2013-07-28 10:59:54 AM
1 votes:
♫ I can't get no satisfaction ♫

.....from electronic cigarettes.
2013-07-28 10:55:55 AM
1 votes:
I quit smoking about 6 years ago, and I've often thought about picking up an ecig for the odd occasion when I still have a craving (yes, even after 6 years, you still get the occasional "God, I could use a smoke right now" moments)

But - I guess in the grand scheme of things I'm better off. It's a matter of not wanting to be 'addicted' to nicotine again, mainly because I hated the way my irritability would climb the longer I went without a cigarette. I also like not having to stand around in horrible weather puffing on a smoke because you can't smoke just about anywhere any more.

The article says that there is no clear info as to whether the vapor is more or less dangerous than cigarette smoke. But I'd be interested in any studies that may be out there about the long term affects of nicotine *by itself*, not in cigarette smoke. Someone once told me that it tends to increase blood pressure, but that was one (non-medical) person. Off to Wikipedia I go! (voom!)
2013-07-28 10:54:47 AM
1 votes:
If it weren't for e-cigs, my hubby would probably have COPD or lung cancer by now. Why would people be against them?

/dnrtfa
//will go rtfa
2013-07-28 10:51:52 AM
1 votes:
The military bans their use indoors. As do a few businesses I frequent.

/addiction is a terrible thing
2013-07-28 10:44:18 AM
1 votes:
I'm just starting to use e-cigs to quit smoking. I'm 43 and started smoking when I was 16, so it is quite a change.

I get all the smoker hate in the thread (I don't litter, and I go far away from others when I light up) but dammit, don't charge me more for health care than the fat bastards who need a cart to get their sugar loaded crap at Wal*Mart. If you can't walk to buy it, you don't need it.
2013-07-28 10:43:11 AM
1 votes:
cigs are going up $1 per pack next week in MA.   I have multiple friends who want to quit smoking in order to save money.   They are all using e-cigs.   I don't care if it works or if it saves money.   I'm buying stock in e-cig companies!
2013-07-28 10:36:16 AM
1 votes:

GBB: You e-cig smokers can look stupid all you want, I don't care.  Just as long as you're not smoking the real thing and stinking up the place, enjoy.


That smell gets into everything. The elderly couple across the street from me are in their 70s and have each smoked for over 50 years. The wife knitted me a blanket to say thanks with helping them shovel snow this past winter, which was nice of her. I've washed that thing about four times and I still can't get the smell of smoke out...it's essentially permanently bonded to the fibres.
2013-07-28 10:31:53 AM
1 votes:
I'm using my vapor kit right now. It's fantastic.
2013-07-28 10:29:59 AM
1 votes:
The people who I know who use e-cigs are using them to try and quit smoking. When I'm ready to quit I'll probably go that route as well. But yes, I am a smoker, unfortunately. I don't smoke in my home and I'm down to about 5-7 of them a day. I'll quit when I'm ready, just not ready right now...
GBB
2013-07-28 10:23:27 AM
1 votes:
You e-cig smokers can look stupid all you want, I don't care.  Just as long as you're not smoking the real thing and stinking up the place, enjoy.
2013-07-28 10:17:03 AM
1 votes:
I hate cigarettes. The smell of the smoke makes me feel like vomiting. I've never had a problem with e-cigs and even spent a couple of years trying in vain to get my ex to switch.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-28 09:30:37 AM
1 votes:
there's nothing you anti-smoking health nuts can do about it

The nuts in my area are regulating them like cigarettes. No e-ing in or near buildings, no sales to minors.
2013-07-28 09:12:43 AM
1 votes:

LadyHawke: Can you stay in a hotel when visiting?  Yeah, it may piss her off, but she's the one who chose cigarettes over you and the family.


For a whole month?  No, not really an option.  Too damn expensive,and kind of defeats the purpose of coming from the other side of the ocean to let the grandkids see their grandparents.  

My dad and her husband of 33 years just died two months ago from some mystery infection we still haven't figured out, so we're not really pushing the "quitting smoking" thing real hard right now.  When the summer is up, we'll have that talk,  but for now we don't want to add any extra stress to her.
2013-07-28 09:11:44 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Don't taunt them, subby.  Enough people are already inclined to try to further control the sale of ecigs.


THIS - 100 times THIS...

The Airlines have already jumped on the "It's just like smoking!" bandwagon...
2013-07-28 09:09:08 AM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: I will never get my mom to stop smoking.  Never mind she's already having coughing fits that puts my passed grandmother's death bed rattles to shame, she just "enjoys it" too much to quit.  But, at the very least I wish she would go with an e-cig.  I've been visiting the families the last month (we live in Spain, but I bring the kids home for the summer to see the grandparents) and all of my clothes smell like stale, nasty smoke.  My eyes are constantly burning.  My sinuses are so clogged up with black, tar-like snot that I can hardly breath.

I may never get her to stop destroying her own health, but maybe it's not too much to ask for her to stop destroying ours or stenching up the place.


Can you stay in a hotel when visiting?  Yeah, it may piss her off, but she's the one who chose cigarettes over you and the family.
 
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