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(KTAR Phoenix)   The e-cigarette movemement keeps growing in popularity and there's nothing you anti-smoking health nuts can do about it   (ktar.com) divider line 547
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15322 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 10:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-28 02:16:17 PM

Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?


Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.
 
2013-07-28 02:16:25 PM

AirForceVet: Vodka Zombie: I don't know, chief. What education level does one need to be to piss themselves with fear over water vapor?

Also, middle school doesn't seem to teach the irrelevancies of military service, either.

Look, I know you think you're making some sort of point in trying to cover the ignorance you display in condemning people for something you know less than nothing about, but your silly little attacks really don't make you look
like anything other than a child.

I was half-right. You are ignorant about military service, but you're not in military school. More like elementary, unless they've starting computer skills classes in kindergarten these days.

/Not a chief.
//Retired MSgt.


Please, do us both a favor and just stop trying to insult me when you can't even form simple sentences.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't really even know what it is you think you are half right about. Something about middle schools teaching the prevalence of airborne toxins on military airfields?

That doesn't sound silly to you, does it?
 
2013-07-28 02:16:26 PM

hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?


Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe
 
2013-07-28 02:17:48 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: [images.cafepress.com image 480x480]


What am I if I believe both are a choice that every American should decide for themselves?
 
2013-07-28 02:19:14 PM
The best thing about ecigs is it doesn't matter if people ban their use because they are small enough to palm and you can use juice that doesn't have any smell.  So good luck stopping determined people from doing that, tough guy.

The fact that places ban them just goes to show it wasn't really about the stink or health for the real Nazis.  Now they're just mad that people can still get their orally fixated fix without actually annoying anyone else.  It's hilarious.
 
2013-07-28 02:19:25 PM

AirForceVet: I simply have the opinion you should not use e-cigarettes in enclosed room with others about. It's a drug delivery system period. I don't care how safe you think it is for me, I don't want it around me on the off-chance it's not.


Still waiting for an answer.. -  Are you this upset about perfume, potpourri, scented candles, air freshener, surface cleaners, microwaved popcorn etc?  All of those smells are chemicals too..
 
2013-07-28 02:19:39 PM

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


This could make an interesting thread on it's own.
 
2013-07-28 02:19:42 PM

mooseyfate: Psycoholic_Slag: [images.cafepress.com image 480x480]

What am I if I believe both are a choice that every American should decide for themselves?


Then I would say you are awesome and I would party with you dude.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:32 PM

AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.


Your skepticism is logical, but I think you're taking it a little too far to be reasonable.  Evidence (and general scientific rationale) points to e-cigs being pretty harmless to bystanders.  Not that I think there shouldn't be continued study and regulations on what can go into the liquid, but for the time being, I think they represent a more-than-acceptable risk if they mean a significant reduction in conventional smoking.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:47 PM

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


Don't forget sodomy (my taxes are paying for your AZT)
 
2013-07-28 02:22:27 PM
Thirty Foot Smurf
Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money. My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public. Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!") All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


Can you stop by at 5:30 this evening? The party starts at 7:00. Wear a jacket, tie and pants are optional.
 
2013-07-28 02:22:32 PM

hardinparamedic: cman: Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.

Here. Sign this disclaimer that you won't use Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security to support yourself after you wind up farking up your farking body.


But he paid for those things like the rest of us, why should he (or any of us) have to decline to take advantage of benefits we were forced to pay for?
 
2013-07-28 02:22:43 PM

AirForceVet: I remember having to do details like picking up butts though I was a non-smoker. I remember working my ass off continuously when smokers got periodic breaks to light 'em up and chit-chat.


Hey, I can tell anecdotes too.

When I smoked, I NEVER ever ever littered.  In fact, I still don't litter ANYTHING.  Nope, not a candy wrapper, not a beer bottle, not anything.  Litterers suck.

And when I did smoke, and had to go outside to light up at work, I very often took my work with me.  I would pass people shooting the shiat in the hallway on my way out, smoke a cigarette while thinking about what I was working on and come back and pass the same people still shooting the shiat on my way back to my desk.

That's just a farking anecdote.  Do all smokers work while they're outside smoking?  Do all non-smokers spend all day hanging out by the water cooler talking about the latest Seinfeld episode?  Probably not, but your anecdote does't mean shiat to a tree.
 
2013-07-28 02:22:44 PM
FACT: Heating up a curry or popping microwave popcorn is more dangerous than being in the same room with an ecig user.
 
2013-07-28 02:22:45 PM

hardinparamedic: Psycoholic_Slag: [images.cafepress.com image 480x480]

S-S-S-S-S-SUPERTROLL


Yeah.  As a smoker I always get a kick out of the anti-smoking Nazis.  Just doing my part to maintain the high standards of a typical Fark thread.
 
2013-07-28 02:23:04 PM

zabadu: verbivore: [ ] If they could keep it to themselves by forming their own health insurance pool with their own dollars, or not reek up my areas, I'd be all good with however they want to do themselves in.
[ ]
Well then, please ask people to stop having children, as I don't want to pay for the kids who are damaged from birth or have genetic diseases.  Or the broken bones from falling out of trees, or falling off their bikes.  Or tell people to stop getting old, as broken hips cost me money too.  Nobody can drive either, as traffic collisions cost me insurance dollars too.  Or those people who use oxygen.  Because those things can blow up and cost me in homeowners insurance if they live next to me.  And turn down your ipod, because you need a hearing aid, that'll cost me cash too.

No barbeques either.  I don't want to breath that charcoal and lighter fluid.


Reductio ad absurdum? That's where this goes? All or nothing?  If we require seatbelts, we therefore must accept full fire suits, roll bars, and crash helmets? If we require guardrails, we must therefore accept that cars run on a track like at Kiddie Acres?

Look, I'm saying I don't want to pay for a giant preventable disease, with a direct corollary effect demonstrated by mountains of data, as a result of consuming a product that provides no ancillary benefit.  If your counter was that I should expunge anti-vaxxers from the health pool, then we can talk. Or that we should cancel auto insurance for people who choose to rack up speeding or drunk driving tickets, yes, I think that also.
 
2013-07-28 02:23:35 PM

mooseyfate: HighZoolander: mooseyfate: First of all: Second hand smoke is bullshiat, so unless you're a smoker yourself, this really doesn't affect you as much as you'd think. If something as harmful as real cigarette smoke can't do a passer-by harm, what hope does a nicotine vapor have of harming someone else?

Second of all: I don't lie to anyone when they ask me if my e-cig is healthier. I have always told people straight up that there's no research or studies to confirm or deny that e-cigs are healthier than real cigs. I also tell them that they aren't FDA approved, so for all we know I'm inhaling a vapor that's a million times worse for me than a Marlboro. Or I could be inhaling something that has all the health risks of a stick of celery.

/I'm hoping they come out with some studies soon, though
//preferably some no bullshiat studies that aren't funded by Phillip-Morris

if you're not accepting the studies done on second hand smoke (which are themselves far more credible than any study put out by Phillip-Morris, I presume), why would you accept studies on the health risks of ecigs?

When I read one that doesn't contradict itself, I'll let you know.  I do, however, accept plenty of studies done regarding the smoker alone.  Cigarettes have incredibly bad things in them, yes.  Putting them in your body is terrible, yes.  They can cause lung diseases, heart diseases, and cancer.  I've yet to see a study on second hand smoke that didn't either contradict itself within the study or within a few months of being released.  It flip-flops so frequently that they might as well just admit they don't have a clue whether or not 2nd hand smoke is genuinely harmful (enough to justify smoking bans, even).  However, any real studies on e-cigs will be welcomed.  I would love to know if this is actually has bad for me as anti-smokers want it to be, or if it's as harmless as e-cig users like me hope it will be.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.  But there aren't many signs right now that point to ...


I haven't noticed any internal inconsistencies with studies that claim harm (or those that don't), but certainly I'd agree that the studies aren't all consistent with each other.

But, if the smoke is harmful to the smoker, and other forms of smoke are harmful when you breathe them in (from a wood fire, for example), I'd rather be cautious than carefree. It may be that the dose really matters, and secondhand smoke is too low a dose to be harmful to most people most of the time, but if that's right I wouldn't want to be one of the few people, and if it's wrong then I wouldn't want someone else to make the choice for me as to whether I'm exposed to it.
 
2013-07-28 02:24:05 PM

lewismarktwo: The best thing about ecigs is it doesn't matter if people ban their use because they are small enough to palm and you can use juice that doesn't have any smell.  So good luck stopping determined people from doing that, tough guy.

The fact that places ban them just goes to show it wasn't really about the stink or health for the real Nazis.  Now they're just mad that people can still get their orally fixated fix without actually annoying anyone else.  It's hilarious.


Really, this is all there is to it.  There are no signs prohibiting me from using mine in a movie theater, but I do so discreetly because I'm sure a big cloud of vapor would interfere with someone's movie-watching experience.  So I take a decent sized mini-hit, fill the rest of my lungs up to capacity with good ol' completely healthy* air, and exhale with no visible vapor.  No one's the wiser, no one notices, we all enjoy the movie, and we go home when it's over.  Sounds like a win-win to me.

*good ol' completely healthy air may not be completely healthy
 
2013-07-28 02:25:15 PM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-07-28 02:27:03 PM
www.deliberateblog.com
 
2013-07-28 02:27:30 PM

Aarontology: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

The juices for them are nitoctine in a polypropylene gylcol or vegetable glycol suspension with flavor additives, so aside from the nicotine, it's not terribly different than inhaling steam from a cooking pot on a stove. The glycol can be dangerous, but only in very large amounts.


Is there any danger from "second-hand" glycol?
 
2013-07-28 02:28:09 PM
www.takeoverworld.info
 
2013-07-28 02:29:52 PM

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


FWIW, I read an article from a university's medical department discussing caffeine yesterday.  For the most part, coffee is very good for you (there are some exceptions and health risks though).
 
2013-07-28 02:30:12 PM

HighZoolander: But, if the smoke is harmful to the smoker, and other forms of smoke are harmful when you breathe them in (from a wood fire, for example), I'd rather be cautious than carefree. It may be that the dose really matters, and secondhand smoke is too low a dose to be harmful to most people most of the time, but if that's right I wouldn't want to be one of the few people, and if it's wrong then I wouldn't want someone else to make the choice for me as to whether I'm exposed to it.


That's why when I did smoke real cigarettes, I still did my best to not smoke around non-smokers.  But, see, I made that choice all by myself and I didn't need a government body to tell me to do it.  I just naturally thought "It's kind of rude to force people to breath in my second hand smoke when I could just as easily walk about 20 yards that way and not be near anyone."  It had nothing to do with cancer risk or anything, I just wasn't trying to be a rude bastard.  It's bad enough you still smell like smoke when you walk over to rejoin your group, why compound it by making EVERYTHING smell like you?
 
2013-07-28 02:30:56 PM

Thirty Foot Smurf: hardinparamedic: Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

Once smoking (conventional cigarettes) is eradicated from American culture, there will be a new "most modifiable factor in diseases," that will cost American taxpayers money.  My point was that there isn't a clear line drawn as to what extent one's personal health becomes everyone else's business as a function of how much it costs the public.  Now it's smoking, but the same logic could be applied to candy ("My taxes are paying for your insulin!"), alcohol ("My taxes are paying for your liver transplant!"), caffeine use ("My taxes are paying for your dialysis!"), excessive TV watching ("My taxes are paying for your gastric bypass!")  All of these are vices and controllable behaviors, and they are all contenders for the #1 "public health threat" spot eventually.

/So much fun at parties like you wouldn't believe


The statists howled at the idea that junk food, fatty food, unhealthy food, whatever you want to call, was next after smoking.  Here werare with many of the exact same things done to those things that were done to smoking.

It all comes down to boundaries, and the one thing many of these "health advocates" do not understand is boundaries.  Since intentions and/or ends justify means, anything that achieves their goal is OK.

No doubt we'll some hue and cry about flavored vodkas eventually.  Bacon will be on the list given its popularity everywhere.  I'm waiting for them to start looking at using the connected nature of most video games to limit how long they can be played.
 
2013-07-28 02:31:06 PM

pmdgrwr: Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?

Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.


Heh. Screw the monetary costs. Ever had to shop in the kiddie section just to find a belt?
 
2013-07-28 02:31:29 PM
Now they need to come up with E-Food for all the fat-ass farkers that biatch about smokers. Problem is the fattier have become a protected class.

Fun Fact: For the first time ever this year, Lard-asses cost the health care industry more than smokers. Suck it, fatties.

/suck it, not eat it.
 
2013-07-28 02:31:57 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: As a smoker I always get a kick out of the anti-smoking Nazis.


If your plan is to make yourself look stupid by posting irrelevant arguments refuting what nobody is saying that were never logically sound in the first place, you're doing a bang-up job.

This thread clearly separates the "Nazis" from the rest of the people who just don't like having to smell your stink, or pick up your litter.  How about you direct your arguments against the individuals who want to ban the product that solves 99.9% of the problems between smokers and non-smokers, instead of flailing about like a moron?
 
2013-07-28 02:36:22 PM

Bumblefark: pmdgrwr: Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?

Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.

Heh. Screw the monetary costs. Ever had to shop in the kiddie section just to find a belt?


You aren't healthy, you're TINY.  Humans have been getting larger for a while now.  Maybe you should have et your vegetables and layed off on the coffee?
 
2013-07-28 02:36:23 PM

mooseyfate: lewismarktwo: The best thing about ecigs is it doesn't matter if people ban their use because they are small enough to palm and you can use juice that doesn't have any smell.  So good luck stopping determined people from doing that, tough guy.

The fact that places ban them just goes to show it wasn't really about the stink or health for the real Nazis.  Now they're just mad that people can still get their orally fixated fix without actually annoying anyone else.  It's hilarious.

Really, this is all there is to it.  There are no signs prohibiting me from using mine in a movie theater, but I do so discreetly because I'm sure a big cloud of vapor would interfere with someone's movie-watching experience.  So I take a decent sized mini-hit, fill the rest of my lungs up to capacity with good ol' completely healthy* air, and exhale with no visible vapor.  No one's the wiser, no one notices, we all enjoy the movie, and we go home when it's over.  Sounds like a win-win to me.

*good ol' completely healthy air may not be completely healthy


Huh... Never tried the mini-hit. Your vape-fu is strong, it seems.

I'm relatively new to the vaping world. It really is enjoyable. That is until the Bubble Boys show up to whine about seeing my breath when it isn't thirty degrees outside.
 
2013-07-28 02:36:38 PM

limboslam: Aarontology: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

The juices for them are nitoctine in a polypropylene gylcol or vegetable glycol suspension with flavor additives, so aside from the nicotine, it's not terribly different than inhaling steam from a cooking pot on a stove. The glycol can be dangerous, but only in very large amounts.

Is there any danger from "second-hand" glycol?


There may be some dangers, but there is danger is most things in our lives. Bad drivers, drunks but we seem to not care about their behaviors as much as those who use tobacco or nicotine products. My advice is to stop looking into the dangers of what everyone else is doing. It is call a free society and that requires that people to accept and navigate dangers in our lives. If you want regulated living we are almost there and you will not have to worry about dangers of glycol anymore.
 
2013-07-28 02:38:35 PM

Z-clipped: This thread clearly separates the "Nazis" from the rest of the people who just don't like having to smell your stink, or pick up your litter.


But I'm a hippy and don't believe in throwing butts on the ground?
 
2013-07-28 02:40:10 PM

Bumblefark: pmdgrwr: Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?

Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.

Heh. Screw the monetary costs. Ever had to shop in the kiddie section just to find a belt?


LOL!!!
 
2013-07-28 02:40:13 PM
Smokers should have the freedom to look trashy, litter, stink up public areas and ruin there health. I'm all for it.  Smoke on!   USA. USA USA.
 
2013-07-28 02:41:57 PM

Z-clipped: Psycoholic_Slag: As a smoker I always get a kick out of the anti-smoking Nazis.

If your plan is to make yourself look stupid by posting irrelevant arguments refuting what nobody is saying that were never logically sound in the first place, you're doing a bang-up job.

This thread clearly separates the "Nazis" from the rest of the people who just don't like having to smell your stink, or pick up your litter.  How about you direct your arguments against the individuals who want to ban the product that solves 99.9% of the problems between smokers and non-smokers, instead of flailing about like a moron?


You are mistaken my friend.  My goal was to elicit a response exactly like yours to point out the folly of trying to have a reasonable conversation with people who lack reason.

Cheers!

photo.lacina.net
 
2013-07-28 02:42:49 PM

Infernalist: The cancer causing agents in second-hand smoke are hundreds of other chemicals and additives that have nothing to do with nicotine.

Plus, the vapor itself dissipates to negligible levels less than 5 feet from the point of exhalation.

Lastly, the only thing in the vapor of note is Vegetable Glycerin.

In short, an e-cig user could blow vapor in your face for hours and there'd be no negative consequences, other than the user's bad breath being in your grill for hours.


Stop making valid points and being rational, don't you know where you are?
 
2013-07-28 02:42:58 PM

pmdgrwr: limboslam: Aarontology: LadyHawke: So long as it really is only vapor coming out of the end (I haven't at all looked into the science behind the e-cig and only know what the commercials say), go nuts.  I'm not against people doing things to themselves so long as others aren't harmed/unnecessarily inconvenienced.

The juices for them are nitoctine in a polypropylene gylcol or vegetable glycol suspension with flavor additives, so aside from the nicotine, it's not terribly different than inhaling steam from a cooking pot on a stove. The glycol can be dangerous, but only in very large amounts.

Is there any danger from "second-hand" glycol?

There may be some dangers, but there is danger is most things in our lives. Bad drivers, drunks but we seem to not care about their behaviors as much as those who use tobacco or nicotine products. My advice is to stop looking into the dangers of what everyone else is doing. It is call a free society and that requires that people to accept and navigate dangers in our lives. If you want regulated living we are almost there and you will not have to worry about dangers of glycol anymore.


And for goodness sake, don't look behind the curtain

Example: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/02/briefing/3882b2_02_mcneil-nsai d .htm
 
2013-07-28 02:44:48 PM
E-cig threads on Fark are the new tipping threads.  Wow, some of you are really judgmental.  Have a Coke smoke and a smile and STFU.

Love my Ego-T.
 
2013-07-28 02:45:51 PM

lewismarktwo: Bumblefark: pmdgrwr: Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?

Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.

Heh. Screw the monetary costs. Ever had to shop in the kiddie section just to find a belt?

You aren't healthy, you're TINY.  Humans have been getting larger for a while now.  Maybe you should have et your vegetables and layed off on the coffee?


5'9", 145 lbs.

education-portal.com

healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com

/no, really -- most stores assume the average shopper is overweight.
 
2013-07-28 02:45:52 PM

litespeed74: Smokers should have the freedom to look trashy, litter, stink up public areas and ruin there health. I'm all for it.  Smoke on!   USA. USA USA.


free soci

abhorrent1: Now they need to come up with E-Food for all the fat-ass farkers that biatch about smokers. Problem is the fattier have become a protected class.

Fun Fact: For the first time ever this year, Lard-asses cost the health care industry more than smokers. Suck it, fatties.

/suck it, not eat it.


Lard-asses can only eat it, if they suck it they will choke and die. But eating more then you should and crappy fast food is a right and a health issue. You need food to live and who are you to tell someone what to eat. Seeing people slop down their foods like cattle is not as bad as smelling tobacco.
 
2013-07-28 02:47:49 PM

A Terrible Human: Z-clipped: This thread clearly separates the "Nazis" from the rest of the people who just don't like having to smell your stink, or pick up your litter.

But I'm a hippy and don't believe in throwing butts on the ground?


That's great.  You're the exception.  Cigarette litter is the most prolific type of litter in the US and worldwide.  It's an enormous problem, and it's not just a small minority of smokers that contribute to it.  Something like 90% of cigarette butts fail to end up in ashtrays and receptacles.
 
2013-07-28 02:49:02 PM

gfid: FWIW, I read an article from a university's medical department discussing caffeine yesterday.  For the most part, coffee is very good for you (there are some exceptions and health risks though).


Exactly.  Of course the health benefits are null and void, say, in excessive amounts, but there are people who enjoy drinking four pots a day for their own reasons and it will, eventually, catch up to them.  Are we to advocate that such people not have medical coverage due to their chosen lifestyle?
 
2013-07-28 02:50:23 PM
vegaswench
E-cig threads on Fark are the new tipping threads. Wow, some of you are really judgmental. Have a Coke smoke and a smile and STFU.

Love my Ego-T.


****waving*** hellsyeah.
 
2013-07-28 02:52:14 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: You are mistaken my friend. My goal was to elicit a response exactly like yours


Your goal was to be called a moron?  Well done, then.  Carry on.  I wish you continued success.
 
2013-07-28 02:52:19 PM

Bumblefark: lewismarktwo: Bumblefark: pmdgrwr: Bumblefark: hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?

Obesity is costing me more, I have to drive around to find clothes that fit me. Most places I go to do not have a smaller size to fit me. It has become much harder to find size 33 waist and med shirts to wear, every where I go they have only much larger sizes 36 waist and up.

Heh. Screw the monetary costs. Ever had to shop in the kiddie section just to find a belt?

You aren't healthy, you're TINY.  Humans have been getting larger for a while now.  Maybe you should have et your vegetables and layed off on the coffee?

5'9", 145 lbs.

[education-portal.com image 375x205]

[healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com image 378x316]

/no, really -- most stores assume the average shopper is overweight.


This was a rational response, so you seem cool and stuff.  One thing to consider tho is that Mexico is part of North America.
 
2013-07-28 02:53:00 PM

SuperTramp: ecigs have changed my life. After 30 years of smoking, and more unsuccessful attempts to quit than I can count, I can smell again, I breathe better, sleep better, have more stamina, good checkups with the doctor, on and on. Yes, I'm still addicted to nicotine, and statistically, yes, I will die sooner than someone who never smoked, but I have no intention of going to back to tobacco, until I can't buy ecigs anymore. For now, I'm enjoying the hell out of them.

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." -- H. L Mencken


I love you a little more for that post.
 
2013-07-28 02:53:15 PM

vegaswench: E-cig threads on Fark are the new tipping threads.  Wow, some of you are really judgmental.  Have a Coke smoke and a smile and STFU.

Love my Ego-T.


Ego was a game changer for me. Thank you!!! I am a heavy user of the Ego and it was one of the few to handle my demands.
 
2013-07-28 02:55:37 PM
I wish this thread had more recommendations on e-cig models and liquids.
I probably should go to an e-cig forums but having opinions outside of one helps too.
 
2013-07-28 02:56:18 PM
Bumblefark:
[education-portal.com image 375x205]

[healthyweightchart.files.wordpress.com image 378x316]


Seriously, switch to metric already.
 
2013-07-28 02:57:49 PM

boinkingbill: Every time I see someone, male or female, smoking an e-cigarette the phrase:  "Total Dweep" comes to mind.  I always wonder, "Do they put water in a beer class and pretend that they are drinking beer?"


You should spend more time wondering why you are so bad at comparing things.
 
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