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(KTAR Phoenix)   The e-cigarette movemement keeps growing in popularity and there's nothing you anti-smoking health nuts can do about it   (ktar.com) divider line 547
    More: Interesting, electronic cigarette, cigarettes  
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15319 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 10:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-28 01:45:32 PM

hardinparamedic: cman: Why should anyone care if I put nicotine, or THC, or even a dick in my own colon? Its my farking body.

Here. Sign this disclaimer that you won't use Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security to support yourself after you wind up farking up your farking body.


Sure.

And when will all you fat farks be doing the same?
 
2013-07-28 01:46:04 PM

AirForceVet: Infernalist: Dude, you need to relax.  Have a smoke or something.

Thanks for the advice. I was just expressing my strong opinion that people who use ecigarettes shouldn't use them in enclosed rooms. My old man passed from emphysema most unpleasantly after smoking his too short lifetime. Also, I know of people with hypersensitivities that have terrible reactions to certain allergens, like nicotine. As for the possibility of injury from inhaling second-hand nicotine vapor, I'm not aware of any studies saying they're harmful, perfectly safe or in between. Therefore, IMHO, don't use ecigarettes in enclosed rooms and/or facilities. It's not your factless call for others to put up with your vapor, based on your own selfish needs and desires.

Obviously, FusedBox, BraveNewCheneyWorld, et al don't get it. They simply rationalize their poor behavior and manners without facts. I wasn't aware nicotine caused brain damage at higher levels, or they're just so hooked on the drug, which is more likely, they come up with excuses. You know, like alcoholics.

So, to sum my opinion up, don't spread vapors containing any drugs within enclosed rooms. It is not your place to tell other people what they have to inhale, no matter how right you think it is.

Oh, and for our special needs friend, Neomunk, just eat me. ;-)




How do these people even survive?
 
2013-07-28 01:47:05 PM

mooseyfate: First of all: Second hand smoke is bullshiat, so unless you're a smoker yourself, this really doesn't affect you as much as you'd think. If something as harmful as real cigarette smoke can't do a passer-by harm, what hope does a nicotine vapor have of harming someone else?

Second of all: I don't lie to anyone when they ask me if my e-cig is healthier. I have always told people straight up that there's no research or studies to confirm or deny that e-cigs are healthier than real cigs. I also tell them that they aren't FDA approved, so for all we know I'm inhaling a vapor that's a million times worse for me than a Marlboro. Or I could be inhaling something that has all the health risks of a stick of celery.

/I'm hoping they come out with some studies soon, though
//preferably some no bullshiat studies that aren't funded by Phillip-Morris


if you're not accepting the studies done on second hand smoke (which are themselves far more credible than any study put out by Phillip-Morris, I presume), why would you accept studies on the health risks of ecigs?
 
2013-07-28 01:48:14 PM

Bumblefark: Sure.

And when will all you fat farks be doing the same?


Such anger at the fact that cigarette smoking is the single most common and modifiable risk factor in every Top-5 Cause of Death in the United States.

Maybe you should switch to pot. At least it'd take care of your anger, AND be safer for you thanks to cannabidiol's anti-tumor properties.
 
2013-07-28 01:48:24 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: //find the anti-smoking crowd 1000x more annoying than the smokers


This line is getting tired.  If this thread is any indication, the overwhelming majority of anti-smoking people are being perfectly reasonable, and supporting e-cigs for the exact reason that smokers try to pretend they don't:  Most people really don't care what you do with your body as long as it isn't socially aggressive.  Cigarettes stink, they're harmful to others in enclosed spaces, and they account for a staggering amount of litter.  There are numerous rational reasons to want to ban or confine that behavior to places where it can't affect others.  There are very few, if any, compelling reasons to be against e-cigs.

Basically, the e-cig debate shows just how few people have the "I just want to control you" mindset that many smokers have always tried to paint as the main reason for the anti-smoking sentiment.
 
2013-07-28 01:48:27 PM
The hate towards E-Cigs is being spread by the tobacco industry as well as the government that enjoys the tax revenue from them.  Only expect it to get worse as they spread ridiculous claims and lies about how e-cigs are just as bad as smokes and puffing on anything, even mimicking the smokers motion with a straw should have the same penalties and effects as smoking.  They will become more vicious as more people move their money to non lethal forms on the way to quitting altogether. It will be easy because the brain dead mentality of the general population will take on any cause thrown on them without question pitting people against their friend/neighbors all in the name of corporate profit/ government tax revenue.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:19 PM

AirForceVet: Vodka Zombie: You probably don't want to know the number of mad carcinogens floating in the air around an airport. Lol!

I mostly hung around air bases, air force bases, air stations, army forts, army camps, navy air stations, navy bases, fleet training centers over my previous career.

As for carcinogens, we began getting hazardous communications training about halfway through my bit. So that helped make us more aware of chemical hazards beyond NBC stuff.

You sound very ignorant about military service. Are you still in middle school?


I don't know, chief. What education level does one need to be to piss themselves with fear over water vapor?

Also, middle school doesn't seem to teach the irrelevancies of military service, either.

Look, I know you think you're making some sort of point in trying to cover the ignorance you display in condemning people for something you know less than nothing about, but your silly little attacks really don't make you look
like anything other than a child.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:25 PM
Health nuts ought to be supporting these!  It's major harm reduction.  Nicotine isn't good for you, but generally, it's not what kills you in a cigarette.  If every smoker switched to e-cigarettes, the lung cancer and emphysema rate would drop like a rock, saving everyone a bunch of money.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:41 PM
s3.amazonaws.com

Haters gonna hate.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:47 PM

Blazncheetah: Anyone have e-cig recommendations? Also where they get they liquid.
I've got an EGO-C and it seems very finicky. (This is after priming) Sometimes I get a smooth vape, other times I get a harsh vape.
I get my liquid from freedomsmokes which is not bad but would like to try other places.


Johnson Creek Vea.
 
2013-07-28 01:50:01 PM

Myria: Health nuts ought to be supporting these!  It's major harm reduction.  Nicotine isn't good for you, but generally, it's not what kills you in a cigarette.  If every smoker switched to e-cigarettes, the lung cancer and emphysema rate would drop like a rock, saving everyone a bunch of money.


I'm kind of curious to see what their effects on the rate of heart disease would be.
 
2013-07-28 01:50:30 PM

SecretAgentWoman: As a non-smoker, I'm clueless.

I'd like to get my sister an e-cig starter kit, but I have no clue where to start.

Help me out?


http://volcanoecigs.com  is a good starting point.   If she's wanting something like a regular cigarette to get started with, the Magma is probably a good choice.   The tobacco pure is a fairly good tobacco, but isn't really the same taste as smoking.  Their Menthol burst is fairly good if she's a menthol smoker.   I personally prefer their Vanilla.
 
2013-07-28 01:51:26 PM
Boy the anti smoking crowd are a bunch of stuck up little shiat heads. I knew they were a little stuck up and mighty righteous, wow I would rather sit with a smoker and cough all day then to listen to some shiat complain about people smoking and how it is ruining their health. I think smokers and non smokers should start a campaign against the self righteous anti smokers to ban public and private display of self righteousness. Oh anti smokers thanks for covering the cost of health care for smokers.
 
Ral
2013-07-28 01:51:27 PM

Barfmaker: Why would health nuts, or anyone, give a crap?


Because they disapprove and they don't want anyone else to be able to make their own life choices.  It's another manifestation of the busybodies who lie awake at night agonizing that someone, somewhere, might be doing something they don't approve of.

It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps.  It's all about controlling people.
 
2013-07-28 01:53:06 PM

Disgruntled Goat: I couldn't care less what smokers do to their own bodies. It's the smoke in the room, the stench permeating everything and the fact that smokers think it's okay to toss their used butts anywhere they please that pisses me off.


This times eleventy. You wanna use e-cigs, kill yourself with constricted arteries from nicotine, knock yourself out. As long as I don't have to smell it, who cares.

I'm a little concerned about marketing to minors; but are the health risks of ecigs less than tobacco? If so, the price might keep that from being an issue.
 
2013-07-28 01:53:44 PM

FuzedBox: Excuse me? We brought the facts, you brought the ad-hominem. My turn: you're an ignorant farking douchenozzle; if you're going to look down your nose at us, at least have a reason why. Yes, we developed a nasty habit, but here's a solution that has worked for us and is believed by many experts to be safer, and my most of the population to be less obnoxious.

Get a life dude, and let us live ours.


What facts? No citations, no links? Just opinion like myself. I just Googled for a bit and found articles for and against secondhand vapors from electronic cigarettes. So the scientific debate is still going on. We'll just have to see how it works out since electronic cigarettes are SO new. A FDA study that found no harm was done in 2009. Dear Abby even used it to calm a worker's fears as her senior bosses used e-cigarettes around her all the time.

I simply have the opinion you should not use e-cigarettes in enclosed room with others about. It's a drug delivery system period. I don't care how safe you think it is for me, I don't want it around me on the off-chance it's not.

You can have your life. If the electronic cigarettes make your life better, cool. Just don't fark with mine by assuming it's perfectly safe for everyone. That's not your call.
 
2013-07-28 01:54:49 PM

Ral: It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps. It's all about controlling people.


Nobody every blew a cloud of sodomy in my face as I was minding my own business on the sidewalk so I really don't give a shait about that, but you just go ahead and make up whatever harebraned crap makes you feel superior, I guess.
 
2013-07-28 01:55:02 PM

Oldiron_79: Ok all you "we should ban everything besides eating green vegtables while wrapped in bubble wrap with a bicycle helmet on because of healthcare costs" types I have a question for you


It appears you're going to have to go elsewhere to find a significant number of people who actually hold this opinion you've cooked up in your mind.  These people, as it turns out, are pretty few and far between.  So far I count two in this thread, one of whom seems pretty milquetoast about it while the other appears to be trolling.
 
2013-07-28 01:55:36 PM

skozlaw: Ral: It's the same mindset that wants to ban sodomy and Big Gulps. It's all about controlling people.

Nobody every blew a cloud of sodomy in my face as I was minding my own business on the sidewalk so I really don't give a shait about that, but you just go ahead and make up whatever harebraned crap makes you feel superior, I guess.


Don't interrupt him! He just climbed up on that cross. Let's see what happens next!
 
2013-07-28 01:56:11 PM

Vodka Zombie: SecretAgentWoman: As a non-smoker, I'm clueless.

I'd like to get my sister an e-cig starter kit, but I have no clue where to start.

Help me out?

Since the Blu batteries are terrible, I got a couple of Joyetech 510 batteries and a charger. I'd get the automatic batteries if you can find them, but it's not a huge deal.

One of the biggest perks of using the Joye 510 is that it can take the Blu cartridges which are easily available at Walgreens and other places.

I'm getting to the point where I actually prefer the ecig over the regular smokes, and a lot of that is due to the ease of use of the set up I have.


I think it's kind of difficult to say.  Some people swear by certain brands.  I have my own preference, but like I said earlier it's not nearly as satisfying as an actual cigarette.  My smoking friends have shown no interest in trying out e-cigs either.

I will disagree with VodkaZombie on ease of use.  There's nothing simpler than lighting an actual cigarette.  Yeah, it's pretty simple to grab your e-cig and press the button, but there is no end to it.  You never just smoke a cigarette.  You're constantly wanting another hit - or at least I am whereas with an actual cigarette you smoke it and you're done.  I'm constantly charging them and refilling the cartomizers with more e-juice.  It's a pain in the ass IMO.

I tried 4 different e-cigs before I figured one of them was good enough.   Other people in online forums spoke highly of the ones I tried but didn't find good enough.  It sucks because it's not how it was when I started smoking where you could just bum a cigarette from someone and if you liked it you could spend less than $1 for a pack.  No, you gotta shell out for a battery, e-juice and cartomizers.  If you find one you like, it will be worth it, but if you don't like them it's just a waste of money.
 
2013-07-28 01:56:43 PM

hardinparamedic: Here. Sign this disclaimer that you won't use Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security to support yourself after you wind up farking up your farking body


I suppose we should only offer insurance to those who take daily multivitamins, exercise at least an hour a day, strictly stick to 2,000-calorie, nutrient-rich diets, and swear off anything with high fructose corn syrup in it.  Alcohol is permissible as long as you maintain a sub-12% body fat markup at your monthly check-ups.  Also, limit your time outdoors due to any lingering emissions that may have a chance at perhaps one day causing breathing problems in twenty years.  We can't have you being less productive at work down the road, can we?
 
2013-07-28 01:57:07 PM

Blazncheetah: Anyone have e-cig recommendations? Also where they get they liquid.
I've got an EGO-C and it seems very finicky. (This is after priming) Sometimes I get a smooth vape, other times I get a harsh vape.
I get my liquid from freedomsmokes which is not bad but would like to try other places.


try value vapor they are reasonable and fast shipping. your harshness some is from your atomizer going dry. keep it wet. if you do not use the dripping method try it out. you have much more control of how much you use and it keeps your atomizer wet and the harshness down.
 
2013-07-28 01:57:13 PM

hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: Sure.

And when will all you fat farks be doing the same?

Such anger at the fact that cigarette smoking is the single most common and modifiable risk factor in every Top-5 Cause of Death in the United States.

Maybe you should switch to pot. At least it'd take care of your anger, AND be safer for you thanks to cannabidiol's anti-tumor properties.


Eh, not what we were discussing sport. You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net. I was suggesting the same logic applies to the fatties.

/and, yeah...my post was just dripping with rage. Sorry if I frightened you. Need a hug?
 
2013-07-28 01:58:13 PM
I'm OK with this.

I hate cigs because quite frankly they make everything around them taste like an ashtray.  I'm actually old enough to remember when smoking or nonsmoking was a question, and the gigantic difference it made in the taste of my damn food.  Honestly, I don't mind the smell... it's actually somewhat relaxing to me, since it brings fond memories of childhood where my dad chainsmoked like a loon (2 1/2 packs a day, often lighting his next cig off the last pull of his previous one).  Fortunately his first heart attack was relatively mild and he stopped cold turkey after that, so it didn't end in tragedy.

E-cigs I have no particular problem with.  You've removed the tar, removed the annoyance of big clouds of smoke stinking up the area, and let people still get their oral fixation and chemical hit.
 
2013-07-28 01:58:15 PM

hardinparamedic: I'm kind of curious to see what their effects on the rate of heart disease would be.


As am I.  But since coffee seems to help about as much as it hurts, perhaps nicotine might be a wash as well?
 
2013-07-28 01:58:25 PM

Thirty Foot Smurf: I suppose we should only offer insurance to those who take daily multivitamins, exercise at least an hour a day, strictly stick to 2,000-calorie, nutrient-rich diets, and swear off anything with high fructose corn syrup in it.  Alcohol is permissible as long as you maintain a sub-12% body fat markup at your monthly check-ups.  Also, limit your time outdoors due to any lingering emissions that may have a chance at perhaps one day causing breathing problems in twenty years.  We can't have you being less productive at work down the road, can we?


Because all of the things you listed are similar in any shape or form to smoking regular cigarettes, which is the most modifiable factor in diseases which cost the United States trillions of dollars each year, as well as are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality among Americans?

I'm all for E-Cigs if it can deliver nicotine in a way that's not going to fry your heart and lungs.
 
2013-07-28 01:58:59 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-07-28 01:59:54 PM
They are trying to regulate them here in Oklahoma as well citing that nicotine is the main ingredient in regular smokes and thus, since it is in e-cigs it should be controlled.  They want to put the vapor lounges under control of the state's version of the ATF.  I don't know if they are beneficial or harmful like the article says not enough research has been done, but it seems that this would be a great attempt for the state to be able to set taxes higher on this if they can regulate it like regular smokes.
 
2013-07-28 02:00:00 PM

Vodka Zombie: I don't know, chief. What education level does one need to be to piss themselves with fear over water vapor?

Also, middle school doesn't seem to teach the irrelevancies of military service, either.

Look, I know you think you're making some sort of point in trying to cover the ignorance you display in condemning people for something you know less than nothing about, but your silly little attacks really don't make you look
like anything other than a child.


I was half-right. You are ignorant about military service, but you're not in military school. More like elementary, unless they've starting computer skills classes in kindergarten these days.

/Not a chief.
//Retired MSgt.
 
2013-07-28 02:00:13 PM

AirForceVet: FuzedBox: Excuse me? We brought the facts, you brought the ad-hominem. My turn: you're an ignorant farking douchenozzle; if you're going to look down your nose at us, at least have a reason why. Yes, we developed a nasty habit, but here's a solution that has worked for us and is believed by many experts to be safer, and my most of the population to be less obnoxious.

Get a life dude, and let us live ours.

What facts? No citations, no links? Just opinion like myself. I just Googled for a bit and found articles for and against secondhand vapors from electronic cigarettes. So the scientific debate is still going on. We'll just have to see how it works out since electronic cigarettes are SO new. A FDA study that found no harm was done in 2009. Dear Abby even used it to calm a worker's fears as her senior bosses used e-cigarettes around her all the time.

I simply have the opinion you should not use e-cigarettes in enclosed room with others about. It's a drug delivery system period. I don't care how safe you think it is for me, I don't want it around me on the off-chance it's not.

You can have your life. If the electronic cigarettes make your life better, cool. Just don't fark with mine by assuming it's perfectly safe for everyone. That's not your call.


Chemo patients emit radiation to those around them, those on oxygen put all around them in grave danger as their drug delivery system could explode at any time with a simple spark.  It doesn't matter what anyone does to try and better things for them and those around them, they won't get a "hey Thanks and good luck"..  Just righteous indignation..  Meh
 
2013-07-28 02:01:06 PM

Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.


The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?

Bumblefark: /and, yeah...my post was just dripping with rage. Sorry if I frightened you. Need a hug?


Like I said. Pot. Try it. You might have a better life because of it.
 
2013-07-28 02:01:48 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: [i.qkme.me image 400x398]


Great idea. But tobacco (and nicotine) are very addictive, unlike marijuana. So what's the business model selling a non-addictive product?
 
2013-07-28 02:02:00 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-28 02:03:06 PM

pmdgrwr: Boy the anti smoking crowd are a bunch of stuck up little shiat heads. I knew they were a little stuck up and mighty righteous, wow I would rather sit with a smoker and cough all day then to listen to some shiat complain about people smoking and how it is ruining their health. I think smokers and non smokers should start a campaign against the self righteous anti smokers to ban public and private display of self righteousness. Oh anti smokers thanks for covering the cost of health care for smokers.


Oh look, another post recycled from a smoking ban thread from 5 years ago.
The conversation has changed.  Your childish raving sounds even dumber now than it did then.
 
2013-07-28 02:04:08 PM

AirForceVet: Psycoholic_Slag: [i.qkme.me image 400x398]

Great idea. But tobacco (and nicotine) are very addictive, unlike marijuana. So what's the business model selling a non-addictive product?


Are you suggesting that pot needs a business model to market it successfully?
 
2013-07-28 02:07:34 PM
I know I'm pretty late to the party, but there are a couple of facts not on the table yet: (at least not that I've seen)

Vicotine vaporizers are prescribed for cigarette smokers in some hospitals.  When the wife was in the hospital back in December, they offered her a patch or a vaporizer.   They allowed her to use her own.   We were using the Green-Smoke brand at the time, but have since moved on to one that lets us mix our own juice.  Yes, she was allowed to use it in the hospital room, even though it was a double room with another patient.

Someone up thread posted link (http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/scienceresearch/ucm173250.pdf) to an fda release about the contents of the vapor from e-cigs.    The keypart in that report for this discussion is:

"Screening for the possible tobacco specific impurities cotinine, nicotine-N-oxide, nornicotine, anabasine and myosmine was negative. β-Nicotyrine was detected in all Njoy cartridges but was not detected in the Smoking
Everywhere cartridges. "

What that means is that the toxins normally present in cigarette smoke or tobacco were not present.  Only nicotine was present.

Another fantastically detailed and thorough analysis of not only the chemistry of e-cigs, but the political, social and health aspects is from the American Association of Public Health Physicians, Tobacco Control Task Force.  This report does a good job of deconstructing the propaganda and misinformation being floated by certain lobbying and less than honest interested parties.  It's long, but well worth the read:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FDA-2010-P-0095-0001
 
2013-07-28 02:08:30 PM
images.cafepress.com
 
2013-07-28 02:08:43 PM

gfid: "Patients have come in and say, 'Gee, I've tried this new form of cigarette. It's great. I'm smoking a non-toxic form of cigarette,'" said Dr. Neil Schachter, a lung doctor in New York,. "I say to them ... 'I don't know if this is non-toxic.'"

A million times this!

Hey, I switched to e-cigs, but this e-liquid crap I buy?  How the hell do I know what's in it?  The fact is, I don't.

It's made in farking China - the country that put poison in baby formula.  It could contain all sorts of shiat.  Sometimes I wonder if I'd be healthier if I just went out and bought a pack of real cigarettes.

Of course, the healthiest thing to do would be to give it up altogether, but that's difficult.

It's certainly not as satisfying as an actual cigarette.  I'm constantly charging the farking e-cigs and refilling them so it's not more convenient.   If I still actually smoked, it would be trivial to pull out a cigarette and light it and I would instantly feel the nicotine (and 1000 other chemicals) hit me and I would be momentarily satisfied.

They are cheaper though and I don't really give a fark if I die, so I've got that going for me.


There are tons of small American startups that make eliquid here in the states. In fact, in my 4 years of vaping, I think I've only once used a juice from China.

I now also mix my own juice, and know exactly what's in it, the nicotine level, and so on. I also switched to cotton "wicks", and rebuild/clean my atomizers.

That's pretty darn safe. It's only the Chinese junk they mass produce and sell in gas stations and from magazine ads that I would be particularly concerned about.
 
2013-07-28 02:08:58 PM

Z-clipped: pmdgrwr: Boy the anti smoking crowd are a bunch of stuck up little shiat heads. I knew they were a little stuck up and mighty righteous, wow I would rather sit with a smoker and cough all day then to listen to some shiat complain about people smoking and how it is ruining their health. I think smokers and non smokers should start a campaign against the self righteous anti smokers to ban public and private display of self righteousness. Oh anti smokers thanks for covering the cost of health care for smokers.

Oh look, another post recycled from a smoking ban thread from 5 years ago.
The conversation has changed.  Your childish raving sounds even dumber now than it did then.


LOL!!! was that the best you could come up with. to busy being self righteous to have a proper reply.
 
2013-07-28 02:09:42 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: [images.cafepress.com image 480x480]


S-S-S-S-S-SUPERTROLL
 
2013-07-28 02:10:37 PM
ecigs have changed my life. After 30 years of smoking, and more unsuccessful attempts to quit than I can count, I can smell again, I breathe better, sleep better, have more stamina, good checkups with the doctor, on and on. Yes, I'm still addicted to nicotine, and statistically, yes, I will die sooner than someone who never smoked, but I have no intention of going to back to tobacco, until I can't buy ecigs anymore. For now, I'm enjoying the hell out of them.

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." -- H. L Mencken
 
2013-07-28 02:10:42 PM

AirForceVet: I DON'T GIVE A FARK IF YOU INJECT, SWALLOW, SNORT, ABSORB THROUGH SKIN OR EAT YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE YOURSELF.

DON"T SPREAD IT AROUND IN ENCLOSED ROOMS AS A VAPOR, DUMBASSES.


Don't go in rooms where it's being spread around dumbass!
 
2013-07-28 02:11:31 PM
Too busy to spend a little time finding someone who smokes e-cigs to get a quote from?

Just grab a comment from YouTube.

Journalism!
 
2013-07-28 02:12:06 PM

pmdgrwr: Z-clipped: pmdgrwr: Boy the anti smoking crowd are a bunch of stuck up little shiat heads. I knew they were a little stuck up and mighty righteous, wow I would rather sit with a smoker and cough all day then to listen to some shiat complain about people smoking and how it is ruining their health. I think smokers and non smokers should start a campaign against the self righteous anti smokers to ban public and private display of self righteousness. Oh anti smokers thanks for covering the cost of health care for smokers.

Oh look, another post recycled from a smoking ban thread from 5 years ago.
The conversation has changed.  Your childish raving sounds even dumber now than it did then.

LOL!!! was that the best you could come up with. to busy being self righteous to have a proper reply.


I know spending all day thinking you are better than others for your choices you make is hard to do and takes a lot of effort. So I will excuse your post.
 
2013-07-28 02:12:08 PM

hardinparamedic: Bumblefark: You were suggesting that smokers are an illegitimate drain on the social safety net.

The United States spends more money every year on diseases caused by smoking than obesity alone. A substantial chunk of Medicare funding itself goes to the care of COPD/Emphysema - 98% of which was caused by cigarette smoking.

Do TRY, at least, to stay on topic while on the cross there?


Eh...you're the one that seems desperately eager to make this a discussion about statistical facts that nobody is actually questioning. I guess because you confuse factoids for argument. But, *shrugs*, just guessing. Just for giggles, though, let's see if we can at least ferret out some sort of implicit argument, then.

So...when obesity expenses outpace smoking expenses, you'll be back here to push those waivers in front of the fat folks? Is that fair to say?
 
2013-07-28 02:12:27 PM

skozlaw: FuzedBox: Get a life dude, and let us live ours.

See, here's the problem. For the last 40 years that's all I really wanted from YOU. I don't care what you do in your house. I don't care what you do to yourself. That's not my business.

But you MADE it my business by dragging me into it when you started throwing that shiat out the window on the road, or dumping the ashes everywhere or, most importantly, blowing your shiat around in public.

So now my one and only attitude toward you is you can FOAD. I'll support bans against what you do purely out of spite at this point because for forty years you couldn't be even remotely respectful.

Don't like it?

Fark off.


I agree with you up to a point. I remember having to do details like picking up butts though I was a non-smoker. I remember working my ass off continuously when smokers got periodic breaks to light 'em up and chit-chat. But, if e-cigarettes and their secondhand vapors are deemed absolutely harmless, I'm OK with them toking up in public places. But, not until that date after numerous studies and in-depth research.

Z-clipped: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: //find the anti-smoking crowd 1000x more annoying than the smokers

This line is getting tired.  If this thread is any indication, the overwhelming majority of anti-smoking people are being perfectly reasonable, and supporting e-cigs for the exact reason that smokers try to pretend they don't:  Most people really don't care what you do with your body as long as it isn't socially aggressive.  Cigarettes stink, they're harmful to others in enclosed spaces, and they account for a staggering amount of litter.  There are numerous rational reasons to want to ban or confine that behavior to places where it can't affect others.  There are very few, if any, compelling reasons to be against e-cigs.

Basically, the e-cig debate shows just how few people have the "I just want to control you" mindset that many smokers have always tried to paint as the main reason for the anti-smoking sentiment.


I believe you have nailed it on the head. I don't want to control smokers on e-cigarettes. I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.
 
2013-07-28 02:12:31 PM

LittleSmitty: My company recently went with a no smoking policy. As in zero tolerance, E-cigs included. They were letting people smoke the e-cigs inside prior to the no smoking policy. Now there is no smoking on the property, period.

This of course drives the smokers nuts. They planned on getting in their cars and driving around the block on breaks and at lunch. Much to their chagrin, the company also instituted two additional policies. No leaving the property. They can get away with this because they started paying us for our lunch break, so no leaving the property when you are on the clock. The other policy is no going outside without managerial permission. You can go get something from your car, but the supervisor has to OK it and will watch you.

So now they hide their E-cigs and sneak around the plant, smoking behind various equipment. It's funny to watch


What the hell kind of company is this?  You can't go outside without permission?
 
2013-07-28 02:12:39 PM

AirForceVet: Psycoholic_Slag: [i.qkme.me image 400x398]

Great idea. But tobacco (and nicotine) are very addictive, unlike marijuana. So what's the business model selling a non-addictive product?


You can get high from it?
 
2013-07-28 02:13:31 PM

HighZoolander: mooseyfate: First of all: Second hand smoke is bullshiat, so unless you're a smoker yourself, this really doesn't affect you as much as you'd think. If something as harmful as real cigarette smoke can't do a passer-by harm, what hope does a nicotine vapor have of harming someone else?

Second of all: I don't lie to anyone when they ask me if my e-cig is healthier. I have always told people straight up that there's no research or studies to confirm or deny that e-cigs are healthier than real cigs. I also tell them that they aren't FDA approved, so for all we know I'm inhaling a vapor that's a million times worse for me than a Marlboro. Or I could be inhaling something that has all the health risks of a stick of celery.

/I'm hoping they come out with some studies soon, though
//preferably some no bullshiat studies that aren't funded by Phillip-Morris

if you're not accepting the studies done on second hand smoke (which are themselves far more credible than any study put out by Phillip-Morris, I presume), why would you accept studies on the health risks of ecigs?


When I read one that doesn't contradict itself, I'll let you know.  I do, however, accept plenty of studies done regarding the smoker alone.  Cigarettes have incredibly bad things in them, yes.  Putting them in your body is terrible, yes.  They can cause lung diseases, heart diseases, and cancer.  I've yet to see a study on second hand smoke that didn't either contradict itself within the study or within a few months of being released.  It flip-flops so frequently that they might as well just admit they don't have a clue whether or not 2nd hand smoke is genuinely harmful (enough to justify smoking bans, even).  However, any real studies on e-cigs will be welcomed.  I would love to know if this is actually has bad for me as anti-smokers want it to be, or if it's as harmless as e-cig users like me hope it will be.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.  But there aren't many signs right now that point towards e-cigs being just as harmful, or more harmful, than regular cigarettes.  Don't act like I'm some unreasonable dolt just because I don't blindly eat up every study that comes out.  If that were the case, I would have already sworn off bacon, then accepted it back into my life as a savior about 500 times.  I just prefer to see real studies that hold up to scrutiny, is all.  We have those for real cigarettes.  We don't have those for e-cigs.  Pardon me for reserving true judgement.  If e-cigs turn out to be just as/more harmful, I'll stop using them, at least in the way I do now.  In other words, I'd be respectful of other people just like I was when I smoke regular cigarettes.  Back to walking all the way around the corner and staying downwind from non-smokers for me.
 
2013-07-28 02:14:41 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: AirForceVet: Psycoholic_Slag: [i.qkme.me image 400x398]

Great idea. But tobacco (and nicotine) are very addictive, unlike marijuana. So what's the business model selling a non-addictive product?

Are you suggesting that pot needs a business model to market it successfully?


I was joking. But a nice business model to detail how distribution will be made, production lines, advertisement, etc. is always a good idea.

/OK, I'm a capitalist.
//Sue me.
 
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