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(AZCentral)   As long as there are old people, the phone landline will never go obsolete. "We are not really computer savvy"   (azcentral.com) divider line 165
    More: Obvious, land lines, Voice over Internet Protocol, IBISWorld, cordless phone  
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4283 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 9:50 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-28 01:03:48 PM

Torgo_of_Manos: If you want to have some real fun, replace the land line with an Ooma... the look on my mom's face as I tried to explain how VOIP works...Classic


That doesn't sound good, for Ooma.
 
2013-07-28 01:07:30 PM
We have a landline and never use it. When we did try to use it, we got nothing but collector calls for the people who had owned the number before us. Ten years later, if we plug a phone into that line, we will STILL get collector calls for whoever these people are. (At one point, we even bothered to get out the local phone book and give them the correct number for these people. They still kept calling us even after we had them Google the number's current owners.) The only reason we still have the number is because our DSL provider requires it, and the second we have another high speed provider in our area, they'll be dropped.

We're slowly doing away with our cable television as well, bumping it down by one package at a time. So far, nothing has been missed, but we enjoy the extra $100/month.
 
2013-07-28 01:07:34 PM

theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?


Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.
 
2013-07-28 01:09:18 PM
I'll have my landline up until the day they start mining the copper from the poles.

In a rural mountain area with shiatty cell reception and prone to power outages, the landline always works, even without electricity.  Emergency response is always guaranteed to know your physical location, without relying on signal strength and GPS.
 
2013-07-28 01:10:28 PM

mt.madman: here to help: Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.


oops, hiting the sauce early today.....I used to think i was the only one in the US w/out a cell. Didnt need it , i live 5 miles from work, (car dies i will just walk). Now we have a new contractor ak work , and they issued me one. dont really like being availble 24/7.. get call all the times on my day off...wheres this key at ? where do you keep the fuel filters? etc...i should be getting paid for that crap.. its like having a leash on you...
 
2013-07-28 01:13:51 PM
I can't get rid of my land line, my internet lives there.  It's either that or satellite internet and fark that when every branch or blowing wind can knock that out.  Besides, the cell reception sucks so if someone needs to get in touch with me or I need to get in touch with my family, the land line is the way to do it.
 
2013-07-28 01:14:03 PM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


This, dammit. THIS.
 
2013-07-28 01:15:02 PM

wambu: Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?

This, dammit. THIS.


Be less stupid?
 
2013-07-28 01:16:40 PM

Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.


Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?

Some people are dicks. Guess what, give them a phone and they'll use a phone like a dick.

You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you had to bail would they call you a dick for not calling them to tell him not to come?
 
2013-07-28 01:18:11 PM

Thurston Howell: tachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

You might be surprised to learn that other countries

1) Have a literal telco monopoly, making it much to nickel and dime consumers for everything
2) Have a different geological constraints (and population densities) than CONUS, resulting in higher operating and maintenance costs for their telco infrastructures.

Also, when you have to start dealing with old people on a regular basis (like say, your parents when they hit 99), they might be resistant to newer technology and opt to stick with the telecom technology they are familiar with.  That might entail costs such as long distance.


The UK did it right IMHO. The old "Phone company" state owned monopoly was sold off but also required to separate the infrastructure from the consume business, and allow any provider to use the infrastructure on the exact same terms. Result is I could start a phone company or ISP tomorrow and serve the whole country and be competitive with the big boys. I have several hundred phone service providers and ISP to choose from and all offer a range of plans, prices, contracts etc.

It seems to work well and we're in the middle of upgrading the whole network to fibre. I already have FTTC which is more than enough for my needs and FTTP is rolling out, again available for any ISP to use.
 
2013-07-28 01:19:42 PM

mt.madman: oops, hiting the sauce early today.....I used to think i was the only one in the US w/out a cell. Didnt need it , i live 5 miles from work, (car dies i will just walk). Now we have a new contractor ak work , and they issued me one. dont really like being availble 24/7.. get call all the times on my day off...wheres this key at ? where do you keep the fuel filters? etc...i should be getting paid for that crap.. its like having a leash on you...


I used to have to freak out on my insane workaholic ex-boss because he would call me about ridiculous sh*t that could have waited just because he was bored and needed to feel productive/important. He would prattle on endlessly if I didn't basically tell him to f*ck off. Eventually I told him that he could feel free to call me any time but he would have to either provide me with a work cel phone on his dime or cover my cel phone costs. That at least lessened the calls... a little.
 
2013-07-28 01:24:06 PM

ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.


DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.
 
2013-07-28 01:24:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: wambu: Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?

This, dammit. THIS.

Be less stupid?


Send a text or call through Google Voice or Skype?  Select a place where your phone "lives" while it's in the house?  Keep it in your pocket?  It's not rocket science... Though, I guess it could be to some of those old people this whole thread was started to talk about.  :D
 
2013-07-28 01:25:47 PM

here to help: Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.


We can "manage" without heating and aircon, cars, home phones, microwave ovens, the internet, refrigerators and a hundred other things. You don't want a phone? That's your choice. I'm not criticising you at all for that. I'm criticising you for trying to force your reasoning on everyone else and saying they shouldn't have a cellphone.

Your problem with your friends being dicks is nothing to do with a cellphone. If you had a cellphone and intelligent friends you would't have a problem.

I rarely call friends on my cellphone, and when I do almost every call is about twenty seconds long ("I'm stuck in traffic so I'll be about twenty minutes", "Okay, see you then") but the huge range of other features on my phone (Maps and navigation, a camera I always have with me, email, alarm clock, diary etc etc mean I'd still have my smartphone even if it couldn't make phone calls.
 
2013-07-28 01:25:54 PM

ItachiNai: DVD: Alright, I'll give you that, but 'allowed to' is a big thing.  There was another up the thread that basically echoed a thought that some folks have that 'you aren't important enough to...' have emergency services?  Have civilization available beyond the willingness of the 1% in charge to allow it?  The telcos in charge may not want to provide the service, but I'm pretty sure they don't want to allow any competition to step in and make it work either.  Just look at Google Fiber's stories and the fight given to muni-broadband even when the telcos had no plans to provide a similar service.

The ' allowed to ' part becomes addressed more when we elect enough of the government to respond to growing conditions of 'have not' like what the South was before the 30s.   The corporate 1% at the time didn't want to provide services to much of that region, but (and I'd have to read more myself, but it fits typical behavior), I'd bet that the lack of development there was also due to their hamstringing of anyone that was willing to try.

The telco lobby is massive.  You can be certain they have the FCC in their back pocket, but in order to maintain the facade that they're impartial, the FCC makes these motions by the telcos to slurp one another up appear difficult or impossible at times when it appears it will least serve the telcos, depending on their public presence.
For example, AT&T proposed acquisition of T-Mobile was denied, and yet notice AT&T was never called out for not honoring its promise to expand and improve its network, even as they signed a deal with Apple that they knew would place a nearly crippling load on their system.
Meanwhile, T-Mobile quietly gobbles up MetroPCS.  As far as the FCC and the lobbyists are concerned, the only players worthy of participating in competition are the ones that came early to the game and are now the biggest ones. (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint).  T-Mobile's acquisition of MetroPCS is a huge jump for them, but even with that they're sti ...




Look at "public access" franchise agreements.
 
2013-07-28 01:26:34 PM

theusercomponent: ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.

DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.


Well, the point doesn't have anything to do with the physical lines themselves, so much as the old analog phone service that the term "land line" has come to mean.  DSL is carried over the same physical lines, yes, but actual dedicated analog phone  serviceon those lines is what is being talked about.
 
2013-07-28 01:28:21 PM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


This did not hold true for Sandy victims here in NYC. The Verizon copper infrastructure was destroyed in multiple central offices.
 
2013-07-28 01:36:19 PM
Old farkers probably still want cassette decks in their cars, too.
 
2013-07-28 01:39:52 PM

Flint Ironstag: We can "manage" without heating and aircon, cars, home phones, microwave ovens, the internet, refrigerators and a hundred other things. You don't want a phone? That's your choice. I'm not criticising you at all for that. I'm criticising you for trying to force your reasoning on everyone else and saying they shouldn't have a cellphone.

Your problem with your friends being dicks is nothing to do with a cellphone. If you had a cellphone and intelligent friends you would't have a problem.

I rarely call friends on my cellphone, and when I do almost every call is about twenty seconds long ("I'm stuck in traffic so I'll be about twenty minutes", "Okay, see you then") but the huge range of other features on my phone (Maps and navigation, a camera I always have with me, email, alarm clock, diary etc etc mean I'd still have my smartphone even if it couldn't make phone calls.


lol
 
2013-07-28 01:44:27 PM
What does being "computer savvy" have to do with using a cell phone?
 
2013-07-28 01:44:27 PM

ItachiNai: theusercomponent: ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.

DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.

Well, the point doesn't have anything to do with the physical lines themselves, so much as the old analog phone service that the term "land line" has come to mean.  DSL is carried over the same physical lines, yes, but actual dedicated analog phone  serviceon those lines is what is being talked about.


From TFA: " Experts predict that landline phones with copper wiring may soon be a thing of the past..."

Why would they turn off a service that uses existing infrastructure that will not be removed, and that costs them pennies and they charge $50/mo. for? As long as someone has the infrastructure in place and is willing to pay the ridiculous price, they will keep offering it. Now, they may opt to not repair the infrastructure in certain areas if the amount of customers makes it not profitable, in which case service would end in those areas, as the article mentions with Hurricane Sandy, but the copper wiring in the Midwest is unlikely to be washed away by a hurricane any time soon. The point here as mentioned in TFA is "universal availability". Yes we will no longer have universal availability of landlines very soon. However, some areas of the country (especially the suburban Midwest), will continue to have landline service for a very long time, even if the number customers drops drastically. Now, when the switching stations and other associated hardware begin to fail (50 years or so from now?), then the last landlines will probably begin to disappear, but it won't be until after the baby boomers are all gone. It won't be in the near future. The only way I see the process accelerating is a federal mandate that everybody must have digital communications, because terrorism.
 
2013-07-28 01:46:29 PM

LibertyHiller: I live in the heart of San Francisco and I will have a landline until I die. 1989 taught me some powerful lessons, among them:

* Liquor stores are closed during disasters
* ATMs don't work without electricity
* Neither do refrigerators
* Nor do cordless phones, cell phones, VOIP, etc.
* No matter how uncomfortable you might be, people within a few miles have it much, much worse

I had phone service throughout the night of October 17, and was able to get a long-distance call out before 9pm, while the office and its PBX didn't have power for two days.

My earthquake kit contains (among other things) candles, a few hundred bucks in small bills, lifeboat rations (food and water), first aid supplies. broken-in shoes with clean socks and a Western Electric Princess phone.


Get a propane camp stove. When Wilma hit I was one of the few in the complex with coffee.

/or better, propane grill with a side burner
 
2013-07-28 01:46:52 PM
If I talked to people on the phone a lot, I'd have a land line.  Cell phone voice quality has been getting consistently worse for over a decade.  It's pathetic.  I keep hearing how cellular providers are working to improve voice quality but I sure as Hell haven't seen any improvement.
 
2013-07-28 01:48:57 PM

Flint Ironstag: Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.

Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?


Is this a trick question?

I blame cars, hammers, and guns.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:59 PM

KidneyStone: LibertyHiller: I live in the heart of San Francisco and I will have a landline until I die. 1989 taught me some powerful lessons, among them:

* Liquor stores are closed during disasters
* ATMs don't work without electricity
* Neither do refrigerators
* Nor do cordless phones, cell phones, VOIP, etc.
* No matter how uncomfortable you might be, people within a few miles have it much, much worse

I had phone service throughout the night of October 17, and was able to get a long-distance call out before 9pm, while the office and its PBX didn't have power for two days.

My earthquake kit contains (among other things) candles, a few hundred bucks in small bills, lifeboat rations (food and water), first aid supplies. broken-in shoes with clean socks and a Western Electric Princess phone.

Get a propane camp stove. When Wilma hit I was one of the few in the complex with coffee.

/or better, propane grill with a side burner


Mmmmm. candles and propane tanks.
 
2013-07-28 01:52:37 PM
theusercomponent: [...]  Now, they may opt to not repair the infrastructure in certain areas if the amount of customers makes it not profitable, in which case service would end in those areas, as the article mentions with Hurricane Sandy, but the copper wiring in the Midwest is unlikely to be washed away by a hurricane any time soon.

Just wait until the Yellowstone Caldera erupts, and you're facing a Coyotecano, or Bisonquake.
 
2013-07-28 01:57:06 PM

ItachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

My dad has DSL through the only company that offers any kind of broadband in the area.  He's paying for 5MB down, and gets 1.5.  If he's lucky.  The ISP says that's just how it goes, so he's SOL for any kind of modern day communication unless he's willing to deal with constant lag and dropouts on even simple voice chats (the line also has random latency spikes the ISP refuses to investigate.)  YAY for deregulation!!  >:(


Yes, assurances by telcos, when testifying before the FCC, are pretty much nothing but dark fiber.  Land lines going away?  Not in any current readers lifetime (U.S.).  Even if telcos wanted to (and many gnash their teeth in anticipation) State Public Service Commissions in rural sections of the Country will balk.  Telcos don't want to end up off the bottom rung of some Rural Telephony/Internet Cooperative.(REC's are doing just fine without rolling blackouts/rent seeking).

Read up a bit on the `96 Telecommunications Act (and the lobby of Telcos formed-up by Gingrich).  It was only last year that the FCC got around to beating the drum about Slamming/Cramming ($20 billion a year skim for the Telcos - `that third party $14.95 a month on page 7 of your bill? - sorry, you didn't opt-out when you signed-up for phone service).  Do they fish plenty of cash from the aged idiots? yes.  But the real money is skimmed from small business (not hard to correlate monthly charges with businesses not using dedicated accountants) slipping on $1-$20.00 charges per month for `services' that read like tech/repair charges from phone company but are funneled directly to a `billing aggregator' that in turn pushes the cash through the cut-out `company' and back to the telco.

Technology advances - but don't count on the efficient (for the customer) implementation any time soon
 
DVD
2013-07-28 02:02:22 PM
Here's where I go off on ignorant statements by someone that seems to have not read any of the article or thread.  But later.  For now, the car analogy serves a purpose.  Not for cassettes, but for having hand-cranked windows as opposed to having 360 degree cameras and a good A/C system instead.

The cameras and A/C are very nice, and if affordable, I'd like them on my car, in ADDITION to windows that I can open myself.  Think of an accident that you want to exit the vehicle and the door is damaged.   If you don't have windows (or even if the power to the power windows is gone because of a damaged battery), then you're more likely to be trapped.   (You could still be trapped if the window crank is damaged, but having 4 of them still gives you a possibility of an out).

With landlines, because of the emergency provisions put in them, battery backups, etc, you are likely to still have a way to communicate even of the power is off and the cell phones and cordless phones can't be charged.  A cat1 phone cable on an older phone and you're ok.  Now if we can get battery backups to both the cell phone towers and better solutions to cell phone battery life, that actually could help with the reliability of the system if we do eventually go away from landlines.

But another monkey wrench to throw is the hackability of wireless systems vs. that of fiber-optic lines.


prekrasno: Old farkers probably still want cassette decks in their cars, too.

 
2013-07-28 02:02:47 PM
No, I don't think landlines will -- or should -- vanish. I do, however, think that any phone company that owns at least a piece of an infrastructure that spans so much of the US would be foolish not to consider other ways of using that network for something besides "old peoples' phone calls."
 
2013-07-28 02:05:54 PM

theusercomponent: DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.


Run new copper? That seems a bit silly - if you're going to go to the huge expense of running new cables you might as well make it fibre. I thought that they used the same old copper pair for ADSL and voice.

Here in the UK, ADSL and landline service typically comes bundled together - it's unlikely that you'd be able to save much by not having the landline as the costs of maintaining the lines would be the same with or without it. I like the landline - cheaper call costs and you don't have to repeat yourself all the time because the crappy microphone & codec in a cellphone has rendered you incomprehensible.
 
2013-07-28 02:13:51 PM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com
Please don't cut the hard line.  We need an exit!
 
2013-07-28 02:13:55 PM

p51d007: As those over the age of 65 eventually pass into history, so will the traditional copper phone line.
I've been repair tech, dealing with all aspects of office machines for over 30 years.  With the telcos
not wanting (for obvious reasons $$$) to replace copper trunk lines, you see this more and more, because
it is cheaper to pump liquid nitrogen into the lines to dry them out, than to repair them.



That IS part of the repair process for that sort of cable.  It's also dry nitrogen gas that ends up in the lines, not liquid, they're just using the dewar for transporting a lot of it and letting it boil off into the pressurized cable. These often show up when a pressurized cable needs repair in order to keep downline pressure up, and dry it out after splicing..  They're also pretty common in places like NYC where the cables have gotten enough breaks in the outer jacket that they're needed in places to keep system pressure up because getting at the cable may be very difficult to do in order to repair it.

Newer cables use a filler gel (which is evil stuff) between the pairs to prevent water infiltration.
 
2013-07-28 02:16:12 PM
I have two "POTS" lines through at&t Uverse. Although technically VoIP, the quality is vastly superior to the digital cellular radio handsets. I only talk on my Sprint PCS if I really have to.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:17 PM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


That's the only reason my mother keeps a landline here at home, and this is a few blocks north of Toronto.

/well, that and the 'I don't wanna learn things!' attitude being discussed here
 
2013-07-28 02:21:35 PM

ItachiNai: cwolf20: That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used

There's a point there too.  During 9/11 and Katrina, cell networks were jammed solid with idiots calling one another to spread the news, blocking out real emergency calls for help.  Sometimes there's such a thing as having  toomuch ready access to technology.
Those same networks that were designed to carry voice calls were only marginally upgraded to accommodate data, but I'd wager the bulk of traffic being carried right now is largely Facebook and Instagram noise.


Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.
 
TWX
2013-07-28 02:24:44 PM

p51d007: As those over the age of 65 eventually pass into history, so will the traditional copper phone line.
I've been repair tech, dealing with all aspects of office machines for over 30 years.  With the telcos
not wanting (for obvious reasons $$$) to replace copper trunk lines, you see this more and more, because
it is cheaper to pump liquid nitrogen into the lines to dry them out, than to repair them.

[i392.photobucket.com image 850x566]

Just in the last year, I was able to convince my parents, to ditch their "landline" since they hardly ever
used it, and were spending, with taxes, 30 bucks a month on the phone.  They did the "but what happens
if the power goes out, the cell tower won't work".  Ummm...parents, what kind of landline phone do you have?
Well, cordless of course.  Ummmm...how is it powered?  It's battery powered.  Ummm...and the base station where you charge it?  The wall outlet, duh....ummmm...and if the AC goes out, how is the base station going
to work?   Then they gave me one of those deer in the headlights looks, and said they would cancel their landline phone.


The CO already pressurizes the lines, which is why it's so important for the splice tech to do a good job with his sleeves. It's a shame that that telco chooses to not fix its lines, but it's not typical of all phone companies either.

As to the nature of phones, it's my experience that in a general emergency there simply isn't enough radio spectrum to keep the bulk of subscribers talking, and while the phone itself will run without external power, for a time, if it can't be used to make a call then it's useless. And the argument about a cordless not working is specious at best, as anyone can plug any line-powered corded phone and it's wise to always have at least one line-powered corded phone if one still has home phone service.

Our current phone is through the cable company, and I'm mulling switching back to the phone company. The first place I had a cable-provided phones used a Harris device to produce our phone, and the whole thing was powered from the cable company's CO or from the pedestal, similar to how the phone company powers the lines from the CO. The new system just puts a battery into the cablemodem and gives that cablemodem another function, to provide conversion for the phone. The problem is, no one maintains the batteries other than the subscriber, who probably doesn't even know that they need maintained. My cablemodem has two battery slots but only one battery, and I'm not even sure where to go for more batteries.

When the Boston bombings happened, we were able to reach family in the area on their landlines but weren't able to reach family on cell phones. When at a local comics convention at the convention center, cell phones were utterly useless to communicate with those in our group if we split up, even text messages weren't getting through. If we go back I'm tempted to get my wife to get a ham radio license so we can bypass "the network" and go just radio to radio.

Cell phone service sucks, and that's demonstrated any time there's anything out-of-normal for it to contend with.
 
2013-07-28 02:31:27 PM
Everyone has missed the whole point here,

THEY do not want you to be able to get out of the Matrix

if you try to escape with a digital signal you die.
 
2013-07-28 02:45:06 PM
All you people talking about power outages like its some kind of normal occurrence, are long power outages really a big concern for most people? If so then I guess I never realized the advantages of living in Texas with our independent power grid.  Longest outage I can recall in recent history was about 2-3 hours and that was about 5 years ago when a tornado damaged a sub station, on average we might get one every couple years and they'll last 30-60 minutes if they happen in the middle of the night, 15-30 if it's daytime.
 
2013-07-28 02:47:26 PM
Goimir:
Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.

On the drive in to work that day, three different talk shows (local talk station, Howard Stern and one other I forget right now) were all talking about it.  They were all suspecting some kind of hoax but were convinced by the time I got in to work in Detroit.
By the time I got up on our floor, everybody was crammed into the conference rooms watching it all on the news.  Every channel was covering it.

When they evacuated our building (and most of downtown), every station -even the music ones- were interrupting their programming for updates.  NPR was nonstop of course.

Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless.  Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home.  Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back.  This was of course in Michigan.  How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening?  Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"
 
2013-07-28 02:52:12 PM

Flint Ironstag: Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.

Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?

Some people are dicks. Guess what, give them a phone and they'll use a phone like a dick.

You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you ...


Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.
 
2013-07-28 02:59:34 PM

ItachiNai: Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless. Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home. Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back. This was of course in Michigan. How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening? Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"


Or, you know, reassuring their girlfriend that they were safe and on their way home.
 
2013-07-28 03:06:35 PM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


I've been thinking about getting one again because of THIS, and because when hurricanes come to floriduh, landlines keep working.
 
2013-07-28 03:09:28 PM

geoduck42: ItachiNai: Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless. Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home. Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back. This was of course in Michigan. How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening? Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"

Or, you know, reassuring their girlfriend that they were safe and on their way home.


I crossed eight different nodes to get from Detroit to home (two hours away).  Detroit was the only city that was cleared out, and that took four hours.  The networks up north were jammed.  All day.  I doubt there were seriously that many people still making calls home to contact loved ones that far north, and throughout the entire day.
 
2013-07-28 03:09:35 PM
In the past three years, our power has been out for a week on two occasions. Though our cellphones ran out of juice (couldn't find an outlet at the overcrowded Starbucks), our POTS copper landlines kept us connected.

Besides being able to save (and reclaim) copper from the lines, phone companies also save on power and backup capacity (fiber means you pay for the power to run your phones.)
 
2013-07-28 03:29:35 PM

Any Pie Left: Landline phone connections beat the crap out of ANY cell phone I've used.  The cell phones make it all but impossible to talk like you have a true duplex connection; those little vocalizations, like "mmm-hmm, yep,  uh-huh", that you make, as a way to signal comprehension and move a conversation along, don't work well over cel phones because of a palpable delay; the entire conversation grinds to a halt every time you try to interject one word over the other person.. I find the only way to get a clear speech out on my cell is to talk like it's a farking CB radio, taking turns, and this is nothing like a normal human conversation where you talk over each other at certain points.  I find it incredibly unnerving and wearying.


Bears repeating, and same with VOIP at times.
 
2013-07-28 04:00:07 PM

John the Magnificent: "A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report published last year estimated that in Arizona, between January and December of 2011, 38 percent of adults older than 18 already lived in wireless-only households."

Owning a Landline is now considered a disease?  WTF?

Plus, if you lived in Canada you would be an idiot to get rid of your landline.  Our cell rates are ridiculous here due to the Govt. approved Oligopoly we have here.  You have basically 2-3 carriers to choose from and they have goosed the rates to where a basic cell costs $40+ a month as opposed to $20 for a landline.

And if you happen to subscribe to Rogers and want to get something fixed, good luck with their "customer service" robo-system.

"Would you like to 1) Purchase a new Rogers Cell or service, 2) Report a problem?"

"Report a Problem"

"I think I heard you say Purchase a new Rogers cell or service.  I can help you with that..."

A-Holes.


Secret for voice response systems: press 00 to be connected to a person. They never get rid of the old "press 1 for..., press 0 for an associate" system; they merely mapped voice recognition on top of it (so the word 'english' becomes 1, for example). So the old number tones usually still work, even if the prerecorded message doesn't mention them.

/use this knowledge only for good
 
2013-07-28 04:00:58 PM

Waldo Pepper: Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.


That system works great until you turn on the radio/news and hear about a multiple fatality accident wherever the person you know was going. That's some scary farking shiat but I completely agree. Only reason I want to get minutes for the tracphone is for my mom and that's just about safety.

/I heard about my fiance's sister getting into that same kind of wreck on farking wkyt before any calls came in. We sat in absolute horror until the calls came in.
//http://www.wkyt.com/yourtown/locations/laurel/headlines/Two-dead- follo wing-crash-in-Laurel-County-180229221.html
 
2013-07-28 04:20:02 PM
Well the good news is that old people die, so give it 20 years and they will all be gone.
 
2013-07-28 04:37:13 PM
I, for one, NEED my land line. I can't get Internet without it. Also, My cell phone has... No service, currently. This is normal.

/No naked DSL here.
 
2013-07-28 04:46:37 PM

Waldo Pepper: You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you ...

Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.


And before refrigerators we put milk in a bowl full of water with a cloth over it, before microwaves we used the oven, before the internet we had encyclopaedias and Playboy magazines, before cars we had horses, before phones we had telegrams etc etc.

Just because we can manage without something doesn't mean we should, and certainly doesn't prove it was just as good. In your world the traffic reports on the radio manage to report on every single holdup instantly, do they? Plus you have to carry a radio with you.

You know, we managed for centuries without radios....
 
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