If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AZCentral)   As long as there are old people, the phone landline will never go obsolete. "We are not really computer savvy"   (azcentral.com) divider line 165
    More: Obvious, land lines, Voice over Internet Protocol, IBISWorld, cordless phone  
•       •       •

4288 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 9:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



165 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-28 03:05:35 AM
Submitter- It's not always a matter of not being computer savvy that makes people keep their landlines. A close family friend of mine lives in an area just before you get to Florence, Oregon where there is little to no cell phone reception. If you're lucky your phone has one bar in that area, but most times there are no bars. She does have a cell phone too, as do many of her neighbors, but they are pretty much useless at their homes, inside or outside.
 
2013-07-28 08:04:49 AM
If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?
 
2013-07-28 08:33:45 AM
My Mom is one of those people at will never get rid of the landline. In fact she has recently gone into technological remission. Se HAD a smartphone but recently went back to this old Nokia phone form like 2002. Her justification being that she was more comfortable with the old phone.

I had a landline in a cable tv bundle package. It was a waste of 10 bucks a month.
 
2013-07-28 08:48:52 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Submitter- It's not always a matter of not being computer savvy that makes people keep their landlines. A close family friend of mine lives in an area just before you get to Florence, Oregon where there is little to no cell phone reception. If you're lucky your phone has one bar in that area, but most times there are no bars. She does have a cell phone too, as do many of her neighbors, but they are pretty much useless at their homes, inside or outside.


My family was in the same boat.  Go a house down the road, and they have signal.  But right in the epicenter of their property in the middle of mid-Michigan, it's just a dead spot. Like their house was built out of depleted uranium or something.  They finally bought a network extender from Verizon, and so now they have signal and are ditching the landline next month.  All they get on there for phone calls are political groups and sales calls (even though they are on the no-call list).  Add to it that my father just recently and unexpectedly died at 57 years old, and so now we have all sorts of scammers trying to take advantage of my mother.

Luckily, my mom is made out of some sterner stuff, and doesn't fall for that crap.  Still, she's annoyed enough to drop the landline and stick to her smart phone.
 
2013-07-28 09:06:38 AM
I have a cell phone, gave up the landline years ago, but I only did that because of cost. I rarely, if ever use the phone. With a pay as you go plan I spend about $5-10 a month vs $30-40 plus long distance of a landline. However I would much rather have a land line phone, the sound quality of cell phone is absolutely horrendous. It's fine if you're only talking for a minute or two, but longer than that and it really stands out just how piss poor cell phones networks are.

Not only is the sound quality bad, but I would give my left nut for a traditional sized phone. Holding that little credit card sized POS for any length of time is a pain in the ass too.
 
2013-07-28 09:15:48 AM
As someone on the other end of the argument, I can tell you phone companies don't give a flying fark about landlines. The money is in HSI and big pipes.
 
2013-07-28 09:54:04 AM
If you want to have some real fun, replace the land line with an Ooma... the look on my mom's face as I tried to explain how VOIP works...Classic
 
2013-07-28 09:56:23 AM
Sometimes I don't think I need a cellphone. Between Facebook, texting, and email I hardly talk on the phone. I could probably just use wi-fi for Skype calls when needed. There hasn't been one month where I've come close to using half of my 500 minutes of talk time.
 
2013-07-28 09:56:35 AM
It's actually cheaper for land line + DSL here than DSL alone, which is cheaper than cable internet. I just had to get the "charge you for every call" line with no long distance. I also intend to move out in the boonies, where there may not be cell service.
 
2013-07-28 09:58:18 AM
The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.
 
2013-07-28 09:58:28 AM
I'm lucky to get one bar at my house so I need a landline.

Hell, I'm sitting outside and only have one bar showing. Talking on my cell at home is like typing without half of the keys.
 
2013-07-28 09:59:32 AM
At least they said "are not really computer savvy", rather than " we're computer  illiterate".
 
2013-07-28 10:00:46 AM
Ehhhh, crochety crochety.Man On A Mission has it really close to right above --  too much Creative Filing of wee electronic devices anyhoo.  Quote from mbr of our local amateur radio club, used very often at ft of his e-msgs:  Who cares what smartphone messed up this e-mail?
 
2013-07-28 10:03:43 AM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


KidneyStone: I'm lucky to get one bar at my house so I need a landline.

Hell, I'm sitting outside and only have one bar showing. Talking on my cell at home is like typing without half of the keys.


Verizon carries a network extender.   I'd imagine most carriers do.  Makes a world of difference.
 
2013-07-28 10:08:04 AM
I have a landline because it is only $20 and I'm pretty much always at home anyway. It won't run out of minutes. It won't get stolen (unless someone breaks in and steals my ten dollar Dollars Store phone... lol). I won't lose it. It doesn't drop calls. I don't get surprise bills. Etc...

I will need a cel again soon in case of emergencies while I'm out but it'll be a cheapo pay as you go with no web or other overpriced, unnecessary crap. Basically just something to call 911 if I ever find myself in a pool of blood somewhere and need medical attention. I'm really not that important and chances are neither are you.
 
2013-07-28 10:10:45 AM

here to help: I have a landline because it is only $20 and I'm pretty much always at home anyway. It won't run out of minutes. It won't get stolen (unless someone breaks in and steals my ten dollar Dollars Store phone... lol). I won't lose it. It doesn't drop calls. I don't get surprise bills. Etc...

I will need a cel again soon in case of emergencies while I'm out but it'll be a cheapo pay as you go with no web or other overpriced, unnecessary crap. Basically just something to call 911 if I ever find myself in a pool of blood somewhere and need medical attention. I'm really not that important and chances are neither are you.


My Mom thinks I'm important and so does my Kid. but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.
 
2013-07-28 10:10:59 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Submitter- It's not always a matter of not being computer savvy that makes people keep their landlines. A close family friend of mine lives in an area just before you get to Florence, Oregon where there is little to no cell phone reception. If you're lucky your phone has one bar in that area, but most times there are no bars. She does have a cell phone too, as do many of her neighbors, but they are pretty much useless at their homes, inside or outside.


The Submitter was quoting from someone interviewed for the article, and the article also covered your point:

Ken McMahon, vice president and general manager of CenturyLink in Phoenix, the state's largest phone-service provider, said in an e-mail that more than a million residential and business customers in Arizona have the company's landline phone service "due to its affordability, voice quality, functionality and reliable 911-location identification."

cykod.com
 
2013-07-28 10:11:11 AM
Try using your cell phone for an 8 hour conference call.
 
kab
2013-07-28 10:13:15 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Try using your cell phone for an 8 hour conference call.


Lots of this.
 
SH
2013-07-28 10:13:22 AM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


http://www.wheresmycellphone.com/

Better yet, Seekdroid if you have an android.
 
2013-07-28 10:16:39 AM
Some people need landlines for home security systems
 
2013-07-28 10:17:10 AM
I don't think it has all that much to do with age.  My wife and I are considerably younger than the folks in the article but also still have a landline.  I don't know that we will ever get rid of it since it offers some things that the cell phone does not.  It works in a power outage.  As someone above mentioned you can use it to find your cell phone.  Something we use it for probably once a week since our kids tend to play a game of "hide the cell phone."  It is also much nicer to talk on during long conversations.  The sound quality of cell phones still is not as good and the size of the handset is too small.  Ever try to hold a cell phone to your ear with a shoulder while you do something else? It is also often less expensive on a per minute basis.  My wife makes really long long-distance calls to her mom and other family members (2 hrs in some cases).  I can only imagine what a few of those per week would cost us on her pay as you go cell plan.  With our landline long-distance plan she can make as many of those as she wants for $20/month.
 
2013-07-28 10:24:13 AM
I get zero cell service at my house. No cable either, so my only connectivity is through the land line and DSL.  I get my TV through dish. Not all of the US has cell coverage you know. last time our power was out was for 3 days, I'd sure love to be worrying about charging my cell phone and keeping my "network extender" powered up so I can talk to people.  My sister lives in a very populated area in NJ, and was without power or cell service during the last storms for 6 days. Her land line worked fine though, and allowed her to find out who had food and water and where the shelters were and make plans with their one tank of gas.. Thinking that land lines are "obsolete" and owned by "old people" is the perspective of a kid with limited real world experience.
 
2013-07-28 10:26:01 AM
We keep a landline mostly for the kids to use: they're too young for cell phones and old enough to have a social lives.

It's also for having a local area code, because my cell number is from a different state.
 
2013-07-28 10:26:37 AM
I'm actually getting myself a landline for the first time in almost 10 years. The reason? Call clarity. Sure, my cell is fine for when I'm just talking with my folks or having short conversations with friends, but when I'm on the horn with someone I'm placing an order with, or someone I'm calling out for repairs to the house or whatnot, I want to be able to hear them loud and clear without any chance of bad reception.

I went on vacation for a week where there is ZERO cell reception regardless of carrier. I've found that since I got back, I started blocking notifications and de-synced my phone from my online accounts. I'm tired of being tethered the damned thing and giving a Pavlovian response every time it dings or flashes a LED at me. I think that once I get the landline up, I'm simply going to shelve the cell when I get home just like the old days.
 
2013-07-28 10:29:48 AM

SH: Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?

http://www.wheresmycellphone.com/

Better yet, Seekdroid if you have an android.


Lookout also has a GPS "where's my phone" feature and several others. Dunno if it makes the phone ring, but I've been using WheresMyCellphone so I haven't looked. It does send you an email if your phone drops below a certain battery %, giving you its coords as well.

Probably my fave (and free) feature, just cos I think it's funny, is that if someone tries to access your phone and incorrectly enters the password, if your phone has a fwd-facing camera it will take their picture and email it and the coords to you.
 
2013-07-28 10:30:08 AM

kab: Marcus Aurelius: Try using your cell phone for an 8 hour conference call.

Lots of this.


Not seeing a problem here. (Although if I'm going to be sitting here for eight hours, I'll probably plug it in.)

www.iphonejd.com
 
2013-07-28 10:30:36 AM

Torgo_of_Manos: If you want to have some real fun, replace the land line with an Ooma... the look on my mom's face as I tried to explain how VOIP works...Classic


It took a while but first we did Vonage, then moved on to Callcentric and Google Voice ring back which was only OK. But after moving to the Obihai which lets you pick you pick up and dial calls over a regular handset like Vonage does it was finally OK to cancel the landline. Thank God. That was $60 down the drain every month for a phone that was only plugged into an alarm.
 
2013-07-28 10:35:12 AM
Landline phone connections beat the crap out of ANY cell phone I've used.  The cell phones make it all but impossible to talk like you have a true duplex connection; those little vocalizations, like "mmm-hmm, yep,  uh-huh", that you make, as a way to signal comprehension and move a conversation along, don't work well over cel phones because of a palpable delay; the entire conversation grinds to a halt every time you try to interject one word over the other person.. I find the only way to get a clear speech out on my cell is to talk like it's a farking CB radio, taking turns, and this is nothing like a normal human conversation where you talk over each other at certain points.  I find it incredibly unnerving and wearying.
 
2013-07-28 10:37:14 AM
Lesson learned from all the hurricanes is always have a land line. They are buried here and the only thing that has continued working through all of the hurricanes.
We had to evacuate and would call the answering machine to see if the house was still there.
 
2013-07-28 10:39:37 AM
"A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report published last year estimated that in Arizona, between January and December of 2011, 38 percent of adults older than 18 already lived in wireless-only households."

Owning a Landline is now considered a disease?  WTF?

Plus, if you lived in Canada you would be an idiot to get rid of your landline.  Our cell rates are ridiculous here due to the Govt. approved Oligopoly we have here.  You have basically 2-3 carriers to choose from and they have goosed the rates to where a basic cell costs $40+ a month as opposed to $20 for a landline.

And if you happen to subscribe to Rogers and want to get something fixed, good luck with their "customer service" robo-system.

"Would you like to 1) Purchase a new Rogers Cell or service, 2) Report a problem?"

"Report a Problem"

"I think I heard you say Purchase a new Rogers cell or service.  I can help you with that..."

A-Holes.
 
2013-07-28 10:45:28 AM
ProTip: You need to have a land line if you are ever on house arrest.
 
2013-07-28 10:46:13 AM

Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.


My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?
 
2013-07-28 10:49:07 AM
My employer won't be letting go of landlines - probably never ever.
 
2013-07-28 10:51:45 AM
Here in Baltimore City, there is only One provider, Comcast. I'd prefer not to deal with them. I have Dish Network and have been with them for over 10yrs and swear by them. Verizon has already stated publicly that they have No Plans to run FIOS into the City. So I'm stuck with my landline & DSL which on a Good day might get 1.3MB. My cell phone works fine everywhere But at home where I'm lucky to get 1 bar so I know Wireless 4G is no good for my PC & Laptop. I could get Comcast internet only Basic at 6MB and drop the landline but my phone service would suck. Comcast has Double Play but they're TV & Internet and they don't seem to offer a package with Internet & Phone only. I'll probably upgrade to cable Internet sooner or later with the basic 6MB service but I just can't see dropping the landline.
 
2013-07-28 10:53:58 AM
Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.
 
2013-07-28 10:57:13 AM
I live in the heart of San Francisco and I will have a landline until I die. 1989 taught me some powerful lessons, among them:

* Liquor stores are closed during disasters
* ATMs don't work without electricity
* Neither do refrigerators
* Nor do cordless phones, cell phones, VOIP, etc.
* No matter how uncomfortable you might be, people within a few miles have it much, much worse

I had phone service throughout the night of October 17, and was able to get a long-distance call out before 9pm, while the office and its PBX didn't have power for two days.

My earthquake kit contains (among other things) candles, a few hundred bucks in small bills, lifeboat rations (food and water), first aid supplies. broken-in shoes with clean socks and a Western Electric Princess phone.
 
2013-07-28 10:58:22 AM
"We have a tendency to hold on to certain technologies, like the landline, but eventually we have to let go," Santanam said.
No fooling. It took moving for me to give up a landline. Yes, landlines have their advantages, just not $25+/mo worth for me.


Also, I live in NJ. We never completely lost cell service in this vicinity  during Hurricane Sandy, even while the power was out for days. Sometimes I had to step outside the building at work to get a signal, but I had voice and data and a tethered internet connection.
 
2013-07-28 10:59:29 AM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


WiFi.
 
2013-07-28 11:01:15 AM
Having a landline is not going to be a choice.  I worked for the telephone company for more than 30 years and I can tell you that the phone company can and WILL stop providing that service
 
2013-07-28 11:02:35 AM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


wheresmyphone.com
 
2013-07-28 11:04:10 AM
I like having my landline. I rarely use it but I prefer doctor's offices and the like to have my home number rather than my cell number. It's kind of nice to be unreachable sometimes.
 
2013-07-28 11:04:16 AM

Crewmannumber6: Some people need landlines for home security systems


To slow a response time. For johnnie on the spot home security a 1911-A is a better choice.
 
2013-07-28 11:04:41 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Try using your cell phone for an 8 hour conference call.


Screw a landline...
Get yourself a Google Voice number, or if it's a toll-free number for conferences (like almost all of mine are), get Skype and a headset so you have more control over the volume settings.
Dial in, announce yourself, hit the mute button, kick back with coffee/beer and all is right with the world.

Also, you can record portions that are important to remember.

Also also, you can attend a shared screen session more easily since you're already on the computer.
 
DVD
2013-07-28 11:06:08 AM
You just saw everything above your post and it just flew by without any comprehension as to why your statement doesn't work?

Rhino_man:

Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.
 
2013-07-28 11:10:59 AM

DVD: You just saw everything above your post and it just flew by without any comprehension as to why your statement doesn't work?

Rhino_man:
Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.


Allow me to elaborate.  Currently, phone utility companies are required to offer landline service to everywhere you can have mail delivered.  The phone companies hate this fact, because there are MASSIVE areas of this nation where it is quite unprofitable to continue this practice.

When the old people die off - and believe me, they will - the political will to save the landline will die with them.  The phone companies will then have their lobbyists write a repeal of that law.  As soon as they're allowed to, they'll cut the option to continue service for everyone farther than 20 miles from a city.  Strange how the Venn diagram of "people who will lose landline service" and "people who live in places that cell phones don't work" looks like one farking circle.

So no, I didn't let the whole thread fly by without any comprehension.  I just didn't bother explaining every step in the process.
 
2013-07-28 11:12:07 AM

Rhino_man: Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.


Yeah, and the telcos are just waiting for the chance to do it, too.  They're obligated by agreement with the government to make phone service available to everybody, regardless of their ability to pay. (Available meaning a line is hooked up, not necessarily turned on).

The whole VoIP/DSL movement?  Not so much.  They've been found to be actively refusing to make digital services accessible in areas they deem to be statistically unprofitable, like low income housing projects, because their agreement only applies to the original analog phone technology.
 
2013-07-28 11:12:45 AM
Damn... Ninja'd.  Good one Rhino_man.  I bow to thee.  :D
 
2013-07-28 11:15:18 AM

Shadowknight: Bathia_Mapes: Submitter- It's not always a matter of not being computer savvy that makes people keep their landlines. A close family friend of mine lives in an area just before you get to Florence, Oregon where there is little to no cell phone reception. If you're lucky your phone has one bar in that area, but most times there are no bars. She does have a cell phone too, as do many of her neighbors, but they are pretty much useless at their homes, inside or outside.

My family was in the same boat.  Go a house down the road, and they have signal.  But right in the epicenter of their property in the middle of mid-Michigan, it's just a dead spot. Like their house was built out of depleted uranium or something.  They finally bought a network extender from Verizon, and so now they have signal and are ditching the landline next month.  All they get on there for phone calls are political groups and sales calls (even though they are on the no-call list).  Add to it that my father just recently and unexpectedly died at 57 years old, and so now we have all sorts of scammers trying to take advantage of my mother.

Luckily, my mom is made out of some sterner stuff, and doesn't fall for that crap.  Still, she's annoyed enough to drop the landline and stick to her smart phone.


I grew up in that same dead-spot, At home there was no service, but less than a mile in any direction and I'd have four bars.
 
2013-07-28 11:15:49 AM

ItachiNai: Damn... Ninja'd.  Good one Rhino_man.  I bow to thee.  :D


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-07-28 11:16:41 AM

Rhino_man: ItachiNai: Damn... Ninja'd.  Good one Rhino_man.  I bow to thee.  :D

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 349x475]


Upon closer inspection... looks like 68 seconds.

I don't think that was ever a movie.
 
2013-07-28 11:17:09 AM

fjnorton: Lesson learned from all the hurricanes is always have a land line. They are buried here and the only thing that has continued working through all of the hurricanes.
We had to evacuate and would call the answering machine to see if the house was still there.


For a few days after Hurricane Andrew demolished Dade County, just about the only people who were able to communicate coherently and reliably were the HAM radio operators.  Communication systems and devices have changed, but I have a scanner from Radio Shack that includes HAM freqs, and still keep it handy when there's a storm kicking up in the Gulf.
 
2013-07-28 11:23:54 AM

here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?


Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.
 
2013-07-28 11:23:57 AM
I am under the impression that I have to have a landline for directv and Internet.

I'd appreciate some education on the subject.

TIA
 
2013-07-28 11:28:08 AM
I just hate cellphones.
 
2013-07-28 11:29:03 AM

cchris_39: I am under the impression that I have to have a landline for directv and Internet.

I'd appreciate some education on the subject.

TIA


They want you to, but you can disconnect it.  Mine has been unplugged for years.
 
2013-07-28 11:29:10 AM
I do have a smart phone, but i also have a landline. Not only that, my phones are old rotary phones. I like the sound quality and their heft. Cell phone truly suck as phones. And trying to have a conversation on Skype or FaceTime is a joke.
 
2013-07-28 11:31:24 AM
Dumped the landline after I started realising that I was never home to answer it.  But VOIP can be a very good substitute in certain scenarios.

Recently moved to another city a few hours away, but wanted to keep my old mobile number.  The mobile phone has a very reasonable nationwide unlimited plan, so it wouldn't cost me any extra despite the fact that everything in the new city is long distance from the old number.  The complication was that people in the new city would have to dial long distance to reach me, and I wanted to save them that cost.  I got a Voip.ms number in the new area code for a mere 25 bucks (plus $30 one-time cost for an ATA adapter), and have it forwarded to the mobile phone permanently.  The voip service is cheap and has a lots of features; I can very easily blacklist telemarketers/nuisance callers and even customise what kind of response they get (ie. specific recorded message, busy signal, no service signal, etc).

Combined with appropriate handsets inside the home (ie. something that allows your cell phone to hand off incoming calls to the house handsets via bluetooth), it's a good all-around solution for avoiding LD charges between the two area codes, and funnelling all calls to a single number + voicemail.
 
2013-07-28 11:34:47 AM

Rhino_man: Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.


You make the mistake of assuming that every telephone is associated with a person.  Most telephones are associated with places.
 
2013-07-28 11:34:58 AM

fjnorton: Lesson learned from all the hurricanes is always have a land line. They are buried here and the only thing that has continued working through all of the hurricanes.
We had to evacuate and would call the answering machine to see if the house was still there.


I had an image of your Princess phone floating on a cushion, held close to your submerged home by the wire. And ringing.
 
2013-07-28 11:35:05 AM

cchris_39: I am under the impression that I have to have a landline for directv and Internet.

I'd appreciate some education on the subject.

TIA


Comcast/Xfinity provides my cable TV and Net service via a cable to the house.  My understanding is that the cable transmits signals sort of like a fast fax line.  I have a router and modem to sort it all out.  I use a different cell phone provider.  For practical reasons, I'd not want to bundle that with them, as well.

Although Verizon and Comcast have apparently partnered in that very thing.
 
2013-07-28 11:35:16 AM
still have a landline and like it because the GPS is deactivated. (lame joke)
 
2013-07-28 11:36:16 AM
a) I'm old.
b) We discontinued our landlines in 2006
c) Cell quality has been improving every year since I first had a cell phone and is now about equal to landlines - at least equal to voip. (Which is good because my hearing is degrading at an alarming rate).

In 2006, giving my out-of-state cell phone area code to my dentist and telling them that it was the only number that I had caused some confusion. Today, it's very common and goes without comment.
 
2013-07-28 11:37:36 AM
It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

My dad has DSL through the only company that offers any kind of broadband in the area.  He's paying for 5MB down, and gets 1.5.  If he's lucky.  The ISP says that's just how it goes, so he's SOL for any kind of modern day communication unless he's willing to deal with constant lag and dropouts on even simple voice chats (the line also has random latency spikes the ISP refuses to investigate.)  YAY for deregulation!!  >:(
 
DVD
2013-07-28 11:40:04 AM
Alright, I'll give you that, but 'allowed to' is a big thing.  There was another up the thread that basically echoed a thought that some folks have that 'you aren't important enough to...' have emergency services?  Have civilization available beyond the willingness of the 1% in charge to allow it?  The telcos in charge may not want to provide the service, but I'm pretty sure they don't want to allow any competition to step in and make it work either.  Just look at Google Fiber's stories and the fight given to muni-broadband even when the telcos had no plans to provide a similar service.

The ' allowed to ' part becomes addressed more when we elect enough of the government to respond to growing conditions of 'have not' like what the South was before the 30s.   The corporate 1% at the time didn't want to provide services to much of that region, but (and I'd have to read more myself, but it fits typical behavior), I'd bet that the lack of development there was also due to their hamstringing of anyone that was willing to try.


Rhino_man: DVD: You just saw everything above your post and it just flew by without any comprehension as to why your statement doesn't work?

Rhino_man:
Funny thing about old people, they tend to do this thing called... oh, what was it called?

Oh yeah, DYING.

When the boomers are dead, so is the landline.  Book it.

Allow me to elaborate.  Currently, phone utility companies are required to offer landline service to everywhere you can have mail delivered.  The phone companies hate this fact, because there are MASSIVE areas of this nation where it is quite unprofitable to continue this practice.

When the old people die off - and believe me, they will - the political will to save the landline will die with them.  The phone companies will then have their lobbyists write a repeal of that law.  As soon as they're allowed to, they'll cut the option to continue service for everyone farther than 20 miles from a city.  Strange how the Venn diagram of "people who will lose landline service" and "people who live in places that cell phones don't work" looks like one farking circle.

So no, I didn't let the whole thread fly by without any comprehension.  I just didn't bother explaining every step in the process.

 
2013-07-28 11:42:33 AM
I still maintain a land line for a couple reasons.
1) Adding a static IP onto the Cable company bill would cost more than getting POTS land line, unlimited US-48 long distance, 10Mbps DSL, and a static IP from the local telco.
2) The local (Comcast) internet apparently sucks in terms of reliability, relative to DSL.
3) A reliable phone line for up to a day into a major power outage is pretty cool.
4) I can still get dial-up to work, if both DSL and Cable flake out. (Though that's mostly just done for laughs, at that point.)
5) I actually like the opportunity to respond to political polls like Pew Research, PPP, and the like. They don't call cell lines anywhere near so often, due to cost factors.
6) The sound quality is better, which is helpful for the weekly call to my elderly parents.

Granted, if money got tight, it would be almost certainly ditched. But for now....
 
2013-07-28 11:42:40 AM
The call clarity argument goes straight out the window once VoLTE gets here. I have had a chance to demo the technology and it makes landline phone voice quality seem downright shiatty.

Continuation of landlines in urban areas doesn't really make a lot of sense, but in rural areas I can see why folks are in a panic...

/ You know who else loved landline phones
// they work in a bunker even after power has failed

img853.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-28 11:46:04 AM
ReapTheChaos:

Holding that little credit card sized POS for any length of time is a pain in the ass too


That is usually true when you're constipated.Eat some prunes
 
2013-07-28 11:46:58 AM

Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.


So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.
 
2013-07-28 11:46:58 AM
Same boat as lots of other commenters here: cell reception is pretty much non-existant at our house. For the longest time, we stuck with an expensive landline. It was partly for the convenience, and partly because we had Comcast for our ISP. I tried Vonage, but Comcast would throttle my bandwidth whenever I picked up the phone down to 128K, and voice sounded like you were talking through glass underwater.

Eventually we switched over to UVerse because we were sick of Comcast's crappy service, so we tried out Magic Jack for a phone service to try and trim the budget. Night and day difference. We quickly ditched the POTS and are now paying $30 a year for unlimited phone service. We have a three handset phone system plugged in to the system, so it's the best of both worlds.

If we lose power, the UVerse router has a UPS, so we can still email / FB / Skype / Facetime / etc. Our phone handsets can't transmit to the base station, but if there's a real emergency, I just dig and old phone out of storage and plug it into the wall. Even if you don't have POTS service, you can still make 911 calls over the installed copper.
 
2013-07-28 11:47:49 AM
Say 'city-centric' folk. Do ya'll have any idea what cell-signal strength is like out here in Sweetwater County Wyoming? North of Winnemucca, NV? West of Plentywood, Montana? One cell tower south of Lake City Colorado, which is surrounded by 14,000 foot peaks?

Landlines are not going anywhere.
 
2013-07-28 11:51:32 AM
DVD: Alright, I'll give you that, but 'allowed to' is a big thing.  There was another up the thread that basically echoed a thought that some folks have that 'you aren't important enough to...' have emergency services?  Have civilization available beyond the willingness of the 1% in charge to allow it?  The telcos in charge may not want to provide the service, but I'm pretty sure they don't want to allow any competition to step in and make it work either.  Just look at Google Fiber's stories and the fight given to muni-broadband even when the telcos had no plans to provide a similar service.

The ' allowed to ' part becomes addressed more when we elect enough of the government to respond to growing conditions of 'have not' like what the South was before the 30s.   The corporate 1% at the time didn't want to provide services to much of that region, but (and I'd have to read more myself, but it fits typical behavior), I'd bet that the lack of development there was also due to their hamstringing of anyone that was willing to try.

The telco lobby is massive.  You can be certain they have the FCC in their back pocket, but in order to maintain the facade that they're impartial, the FCC makes these motions by the telcos to slurp one another up appear difficult or impossible at times when it appears it will least serve the telcos, depending on their public presence.
For example, AT&T proposed acquisition of T-Mobile was denied, and yet notice AT&T was never called out for not honoring its promise to expand and improve its network, even as they signed a deal with Apple that they knew would place a nearly crippling load on their system.
Meanwhile, T-Mobile quietly gobbles up MetroPCS.  As far as the FCC and the lobbyists are concerned, the only players worthy of participating in competition are the ones that came early to the game and are now the biggest ones. (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint).  T-Mobile's acquisition of MetroPCS is a huge jump for them, but even with that they're still behind the "big guns", so they can continue eating up other companies; not to gain access to better or improved network reach, but to snack up all those tasty paying subscribers.

So yeah, believe me, once the original landline agreement is allowed to lapse, nobody in the government is going to suggest a new agreement to accommodate modern digital services, because the lobbyists are paying them far too well NOT to do so.
 
2013-07-28 11:52:38 AM
Also, for those here who say they still want an emergency phone:

My wife has no need for a regular service cell phone - she only carries it for emergencies. She's had a pre-paid flip phone phone from Virgin Mobile for years now, and pays $20 every three months to keep it active. That gives her about 100 minutes of talk time, and she's never run out of minutes. She does all her talking on the home phone :)

(My VM plan is $30 a month for 250 minutes of talk and unlimited data, and I've never run out of talk minutes either.)
 
2013-07-28 11:58:15 AM

JohnTuttle: Also, for those here who say they still want an emergency phone:

My wife has no need for a regular service cell phone - she only carries it for emergencies. She's had a pre-paid flip phone phone from Virgin Mobile for years now, and pays $20 every three months to keep it active. That gives her about 100 minutes of talk time, and she's never run out of minutes. She does all her talking on the home phone :)

(My VM plan is $30 a month for 250 minutes of talk and unlimited data, and I've never run out of talk minutes either.)


Heh, $50 gives me unlimited everything on 4G-LTE with MetroPCS.  Sadly, I'm waiting for the hammer to fall on that stellar deal because I'm on MetroPCS (see my previous post). :(
 
2013-07-28 12:01:01 PM
That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used
 
2013-07-28 12:04:02 PM

cwolf20: That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used


There's a point there too.  During 9/11 and Katrina, cell networks were jammed solid with idiots calling one another to spread the news, blocking out real emergency calls for help.  Sometimes there's such a thing as having  toomuch ready access to technology.
Those same networks that were designed to carry voice calls were only marginally upgraded to accommodate data, but I'd wager the bulk of traffic being carried right now is largely Facebook and Instagram noise.
 
2013-07-28 12:11:49 PM
Heh, $50 gives me unlimited everything on 4G-LTE with MetroPCS.  Sadly, I'm waiting for the hammer to fall on that stellar deal because I'm on MetroPCS (see my previous post). :(

Same with VM, $50 for unlimited everything.

I just checked usage on my phone (finally had the money banked for a VM iPhone!) and I've used a little over 800 meg in downloaded data. That much usage would mean a $30 / month data plan from ATT. I cannot understand why people willingly waste so much money on cell service.
 
2013-07-28 12:17:08 PM

ItachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.   As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

My dad has DSL through the only company that offers any kind of broadband in the area.  He's paying for 5MB down, and gets 1.5.  If he's lucky.  The ISP says that's just how it goes, so he's SOL for any kind of modern day communication unless he's willing to deal with constant lag and dropouts on even simple voice chats (the line also has random latency spikes the ISP refuses to investigate.)  YAY for deregulation!!  >:(


The cell companies and telco's haven't expanded their network and infrastructure in over 10 years?  Cell and internet today is just like it was in, say, 2000?  You're kidding. right?
 
2013-07-28 12:18:30 PM

here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?


well to be honest you came across rather smug about it.  but I do agree about how important people feel that being able to be reached 24/7.  I have yet to figure out what people are talking about at 6 a.m in rush hour (not all are conf calls) or 11 p.m at night.

Could it be part of the reason the economy is suffering is the high cost of cell phones.  back in my day a 20 year old living at home, going to community college and working sure was kicking out $100+ a month for a phone bill
 
2013-07-28 12:18:42 PM

tachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.


You might be surprised to learn that other countries

1) Have a literal telco monopoly, making it much to nickel and dime consumers for everything
2) Have a different geological constraints (and population densities) than CONUS, resulting in higher operating and maintenance costs for their telco infrastructures.

Also, when you have to start dealing with old people on a regular basis (like say, your parents when they hit 99), they might be resistant to newer technology and opt to stick with the telecom technology they are familiar with.  That might entail costs such as long distance.
 
2013-07-28 12:25:50 PM

Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.


you know if you can't decide whether to buy a jar of mayo or not maybe just maybe you shouldn't be shopping.  When in doubt buy the mayo you will use it up.  There was a redbox thread earlier about people taking forever to decide what to rent at the box, these same folks are the ones who will get on the phone and go over every movie. Use your brain and pick a movie, hopefully you know your family/friends well enough to pick wisely.

Life isn't perfect and if you make the wrong choice well you might just have a fun moment to remember in the future. "dude remember that horrible movie you rented." "omg yea that was so bad". but doubtful if 10 years later you will remember renting Avengers and watching it with your friends.
 
2013-07-28 12:26:21 PM
No one noticed that both of the people in the picture are holding wireless "landline" phones?
 
2013-07-28 12:30:10 PM

Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.


Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.
 
2013-07-28 12:31:12 PM
I just bought a land line phone. When I call subby's mom's chat line, I hate when I run out of battery on the cell.
 
2013-07-28 12:33:54 PM

RickN99: The cell companies and telco's haven't expanded their network and infrastructure in over 10 years?  Cell and internet today is just like it was in, say, 2000?  You're kidding. right?


Okay, fair enough, I wasn't very clear there.
They haven't expanded their networks to appropriately to keep pace with their subscription rate.  They've been in straight reactionary mode, expanding only when absolutely necessary, and only after they've sold a lot of people on services or capabilities that they don't actually have yet.

AT&T sold a lot of people on the iPhone.  They knew they'd have a massive customer uptake specifically for the data capabilities, but didn't bother to ensure the network could handle the load.  They waited until they'd realized the peak adoption rate before they begrudgingly began to expand the network to address the massive outcry about dropped calls, and general false advertising about available network speeds.
They (the telcos) then turned around and started crowing about "4G", knowing it was really little more than a marketing term, but that people would snap at it anyway.  That got them another influx of customers and upgraders, and again only after people realized what was really going on did they actually do any network improvements.  At that point, once they really could start offering a tangible improvement in speed, they dropped the charade and started calling it "4G LTE" (which is really what they were claiming 4G was supposed to have been in the first place).

Basically nobody is upgrading their infrastructure in advance to offer new and faster technologies to their customers.  What they're doing is selling the concept first, milking every dime they can from it, then doing the upgrade when their customers start demanding what they paid for, (often under threat of a class-action lawsuit).
 
2013-07-28 12:34:17 PM
Also my husband who insists we pay for a landline that we never use "in case of emergencies".  I've given up asking him what sort of emergency would overtake us in our populated area that would wipe out our cell phones, computers AND ability to walk or drive to a neighbor's house or a store that would leave our landline intact.
 
2013-07-28 12:37:08 PM
For those who were old enough in 1984 to hate changes such as the breakup of Ma Bell, the former Bell System subsidiary that leases landline telephones, as was done under the old AT&T monopoly,  still exists and collects $5.95 a month to lease this:
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-28 12:39:54 PM
As those over the age of 65 eventually pass into history, so will the traditional copper phone line.
I've been repair tech, dealing with all aspects of office machines for over 30 years.  With the telcos
not wanting (for obvious reasons $$$) to replace copper trunk lines, you see this more and more, because
it is cheaper to pump liquid nitrogen into the lines to dry them out, than to repair them.

i392.photobucket.com

Just in the last year, I was able to convince my parents, to ditch their "landline" since they hardly ever
used it, and were spending, with taxes, 30 bucks a month on the phone.  They did the "but what happens
if the power goes out, the cell tower won't work".  Ummm...parents, what kind of landline phone do you have?
Well, cordless of course.  Ummmm...how is it powered?  It's battery powered.  Ummm...and the base station where you charge it?  The wall outlet, duh....ummmm...and if the AC goes out, how is the base station going
to work?   Then they gave me one of those deer in the headlights looks, and said they would cancel their landline phone.
 
2013-07-28 12:42:10 PM

Shadowknight: Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.

KidneyStone: I'm lucky to get one bar at my house so I need a landline.

Hell, I'm sitting outside and only have one bar showing. Talking on my cell at home is like typing without half of the keys.

Verizon carries a network extender.   I'd imagine most carriers do.  Makes a world of difference.


Actually, most carriers (worldwide) do not offer small cells routed over the public Internet. They're concerned about the security and reliability of the customer's ADSL or cable connection, and the possibility of the small cell causing radio interference to the surrounding cellular network.
 
2013-07-28 12:42:15 PM
Well, the Feds still need a warrant if they want to tap your land line.
 
2013-07-28 12:43:39 PM

Waldo Pepper: well to be honest you came across rather smug about it.


Imma cel phone hipster. ;-)

Waldo Pepper: Could it be part of the reason the economy is suffering is the high cost of cell phones


For sure it is. Lots of wasted productivity and tons of cash being funneled directly into the pockets of massive communications moguls never getting a chance to hit the street level economy. Most employed by those companies are overseas too and their infrastructure is heavily subsidized with tax dollars. There is no tangible product that retains usefulness or value over time (except knowledge but how much actual useful knowledge is put through the system). The physical devices are designed to become obsolete within a year or so so they end up in landfills AND you get the added benefit of feeding into a massive surveillance database furthering a pseudo police state. Oh and let's not forget the sweatshops where this crap is made.

I mean that's not to say they are completely useless. They are great for emergencies and keeping certain aspects of businesses flowing but they aren't the necessity most have been made to believe they are. Just another shiny thing to keep you distracted and handing over fistfuls of cash.
 
2013-07-28 12:44:56 PM
Digital phone landlines are where it's at yo! SuddenLink told me so!! Actually, I love their latest gimmick; that cellphones and crappy reception means emergency personnel have absolutely no way whatsoever to triangulate your position, even though e-911 GPS has been mandated for phones for 10 years now. They also, in another commercial commented how cell phones are useless in an area wide emergency if towers get knocked out. Umm.....if the power goes out, so does the digital phone. It also goes out if you don't pay your cable bill. But that part is always left out.
 
2013-07-28 12:48:04 PM

p51d007: They did the "but what happens
if the power goes out, the cell tower won't work". Ummm...parents, what kind of landline phone do you have?
Well, cordless of course. Ummmm...how is it powered? It's battery powered. Ummm...and the base station where you charge it? The wall outlet, duh....ummmm...and if the AC goes out, how is the base station going


Which is why you keep a hard wire phone around for power outages. My phone is actually through the cable company so the line goes through the modem but it has batteries to keep the phone going. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work. I haven't tested it.
 
2013-07-28 12:48:31 PM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


Exactly
 
2013-07-28 12:50:00 PM

tiamet4: Also my husband who insists we pay for a landline that we never use "in case of emergencies".  I've given up asking him what sort of emergency would overtake us in our populated area that would wipe out our cell phones, computers AND ability to walk or drive to a neighbor's house or a store that would leave our landline intact.


before I moved to NC, I was up in nova and didn't want to totally give up my landline, had the number for 20 years and this keep me in the white pages which allowed old family friends (parents friends mainly) to contact me in case of emergency well to be honest in case of death.  

I called verizon and for once got a customer service person who truly helped, I kept my landline for $13 a month, no long distance and if I made an outgoing call it would cost but I could take as many any coming calls and make as many 800 calls that i wanted.

Perfect for calling business 800 lines as this gave me clear communication and if someone need to call. Also gave faster 911 if something happened at home/neighborhood.
 
2013-07-28 12:55:58 PM
I keep on VoIP landline in the house. It comes in handy every now and then. Like for the moments when one's cell voice service goes belly up because your carrier upgraded MTSO or tower software. Then they roll the upgrade back and your phone works again and you get an email saying take it into the store so they can upgrade the firmware. So now that it's upgraded voice and sms work just fine, but no net service or 4G connection.

So I've been haranguing the customer service reps. I'll keep doing it until they escalate me to someone in engineering who understands that they BROKE the main part of the service that I'm paying for.
 
2013-07-28 12:58:42 PM
If AT&T gives me a *smoking* deal on a landline maybe I'll stick with them after I port the last two landline numbers to Call centric. But I'll be honest despite living in hurricane country I view a generator for A/C, food and water higher up on the list than a land line. Once you've called everyone and said yup I'm fine, there's not much else use for one unless your house is burning down, or you ran out of bullets before you ran out of looters. ;-)
 
2013-07-28 12:59:38 PM
So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?
 
2013-07-28 01:02:16 PM

here to help: Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.

 
2013-07-28 01:03:42 PM
We're looking at dumping our landline right now and going cell only.  Has anyone here used Republic?  I hate Sprint, we're with Verizon now and not thrilled, and that kind of leaves us with pre-pay.  Republic says they can save us about $50 bucks a month, and combine that with the landline cost, and we're right at $100 a month off the budget.
 
2013-07-28 01:03:48 PM

Torgo_of_Manos: If you want to have some real fun, replace the land line with an Ooma... the look on my mom's face as I tried to explain how VOIP works...Classic


That doesn't sound good, for Ooma.
 
2013-07-28 01:07:30 PM
We have a landline and never use it. When we did try to use it, we got nothing but collector calls for the people who had owned the number before us. Ten years later, if we plug a phone into that line, we will STILL get collector calls for whoever these people are. (At one point, we even bothered to get out the local phone book and give them the correct number for these people. They still kept calling us even after we had them Google the number's current owners.) The only reason we still have the number is because our DSL provider requires it, and the second we have another high speed provider in our area, they'll be dropped.

We're slowly doing away with our cable television as well, bumping it down by one package at a time. So far, nothing has been missed, but we enjoy the extra $100/month.
 
2013-07-28 01:07:34 PM

theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?


Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.
 
2013-07-28 01:09:18 PM
I'll have my landline up until the day they start mining the copper from the poles.

In a rural mountain area with shiatty cell reception and prone to power outages, the landline always works, even without electricity.  Emergency response is always guaranteed to know your physical location, without relying on signal strength and GPS.
 
2013-07-28 01:10:28 PM

mt.madman: here to help: Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.


oops, hiting the sauce early today.....I used to think i was the only one in the US w/out a cell. Didnt need it , i live 5 miles from work, (car dies i will just walk). Now we have a new contractor ak work , and they issued me one. dont really like being availble 24/7.. get call all the times on my day off...wheres this key at ? where do you keep the fuel filters? etc...i should be getting paid for that crap.. its like having a leash on you...
 
2013-07-28 01:13:51 PM
I can't get rid of my land line, my internet lives there.  It's either that or satellite internet and fark that when every branch or blowing wind can knock that out.  Besides, the cell reception sucks so if someone needs to get in touch with me or I need to get in touch with my family, the land line is the way to do it.
 
2013-07-28 01:14:03 PM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


This, dammit. THIS.
 
2013-07-28 01:15:02 PM

wambu: Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?

This, dammit. THIS.


Be less stupid?
 
2013-07-28 01:16:40 PM

Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.


Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?

Some people are dicks. Guess what, give them a phone and they'll use a phone like a dick.

You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you had to bail would they call you a dick for not calling them to tell him not to come?
 
2013-07-28 01:18:11 PM

Thurston Howell: tachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

You might be surprised to learn that other countries

1) Have a literal telco monopoly, making it much to nickel and dime consumers for everything
2) Have a different geological constraints (and population densities) than CONUS, resulting in higher operating and maintenance costs for their telco infrastructures.

Also, when you have to start dealing with old people on a regular basis (like say, your parents when they hit 99), they might be resistant to newer technology and opt to stick with the telecom technology they are familiar with.  That might entail costs such as long distance.


The UK did it right IMHO. The old "Phone company" state owned monopoly was sold off but also required to separate the infrastructure from the consume business, and allow any provider to use the infrastructure on the exact same terms. Result is I could start a phone company or ISP tomorrow and serve the whole country and be competitive with the big boys. I have several hundred phone service providers and ISP to choose from and all offer a range of plans, prices, contracts etc.

It seems to work well and we're in the middle of upgrading the whole network to fibre. I already have FTTC which is more than enough for my needs and FTTP is rolling out, again available for any ISP to use.
 
2013-07-28 01:19:42 PM

mt.madman: oops, hiting the sauce early today.....I used to think i was the only one in the US w/out a cell. Didnt need it , i live 5 miles from work, (car dies i will just walk). Now we have a new contractor ak work , and they issued me one. dont really like being availble 24/7.. get call all the times on my day off...wheres this key at ? where do you keep the fuel filters? etc...i should be getting paid for that crap.. its like having a leash on you...


I used to have to freak out on my insane workaholic ex-boss because he would call me about ridiculous sh*t that could have waited just because he was bored and needed to feel productive/important. He would prattle on endlessly if I didn't basically tell him to f*ck off. Eventually I told him that he could feel free to call me any time but he would have to either provide me with a work cel phone on his dime or cover my cel phone costs. That at least lessened the calls... a little.
 
2013-07-28 01:24:06 PM

ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.


DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.
 
2013-07-28 01:24:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: wambu: Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?

This, dammit. THIS.

Be less stupid?


Send a text or call through Google Voice or Skype?  Select a place where your phone "lives" while it's in the house?  Keep it in your pocket?  It's not rocket science... Though, I guess it could be to some of those old people this whole thread was started to talk about.  :D
 
2013-07-28 01:25:47 PM

here to help: Flint Ironstag: Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

Society managed not collapse before we had those minor conveniences and I do not see the cost to benefit ratio being anywhere near equal. Most people have them because they feel they are expected to. Some folks seem shocked when I tell them I don't have a cel and even if I did I'd still tell them I don't. When I had one and gave out the number, even to people that I needed to stay in contact with (before I had a landline) they'd inevitably call me and burn through my minutes when they could have just waited until I saw them next.


We can "manage" without heating and aircon, cars, home phones, microwave ovens, the internet, refrigerators and a hundred other things. You don't want a phone? That's your choice. I'm not criticising you at all for that. I'm criticising you for trying to force your reasoning on everyone else and saying they shouldn't have a cellphone.

Your problem with your friends being dicks is nothing to do with a cellphone. If you had a cellphone and intelligent friends you would't have a problem.

I rarely call friends on my cellphone, and when I do almost every call is about twenty seconds long ("I'm stuck in traffic so I'll be about twenty minutes", "Okay, see you then") but the huge range of other features on my phone (Maps and navigation, a camera I always have with me, email, alarm clock, diary etc etc mean I'd still have my smartphone even if it couldn't make phone calls.
 
2013-07-28 01:25:54 PM

ItachiNai: DVD: Alright, I'll give you that, but 'allowed to' is a big thing.  There was another up the thread that basically echoed a thought that some folks have that 'you aren't important enough to...' have emergency services?  Have civilization available beyond the willingness of the 1% in charge to allow it?  The telcos in charge may not want to provide the service, but I'm pretty sure they don't want to allow any competition to step in and make it work either.  Just look at Google Fiber's stories and the fight given to muni-broadband even when the telcos had no plans to provide a similar service.

The ' allowed to ' part becomes addressed more when we elect enough of the government to respond to growing conditions of 'have not' like what the South was before the 30s.   The corporate 1% at the time didn't want to provide services to much of that region, but (and I'd have to read more myself, but it fits typical behavior), I'd bet that the lack of development there was also due to their hamstringing of anyone that was willing to try.

The telco lobby is massive.  You can be certain they have the FCC in their back pocket, but in order to maintain the facade that they're impartial, the FCC makes these motions by the telcos to slurp one another up appear difficult or impossible at times when it appears it will least serve the telcos, depending on their public presence.
For example, AT&T proposed acquisition of T-Mobile was denied, and yet notice AT&T was never called out for not honoring its promise to expand and improve its network, even as they signed a deal with Apple that they knew would place a nearly crippling load on their system.
Meanwhile, T-Mobile quietly gobbles up MetroPCS.  As far as the FCC and the lobbyists are concerned, the only players worthy of participating in competition are the ones that came early to the game and are now the biggest ones. (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint).  T-Mobile's acquisition of MetroPCS is a huge jump for them, but even with that they're sti ...




Look at "public access" franchise agreements.
 
2013-07-28 01:26:34 PM

theusercomponent: ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.

DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.


Well, the point doesn't have anything to do with the physical lines themselves, so much as the old analog phone service that the term "land line" has come to mean.  DSL is carried over the same physical lines, yes, but actual dedicated analog phone  serviceon those lines is what is being talked about.
 
2013-07-28 01:28:21 PM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


This did not hold true for Sandy victims here in NYC. The Verizon copper infrastructure was destroyed in multiple central offices.
 
2013-07-28 01:36:19 PM
Old farkers probably still want cassette decks in their cars, too.
 
2013-07-28 01:39:52 PM

Flint Ironstag: We can "manage" without heating and aircon, cars, home phones, microwave ovens, the internet, refrigerators and a hundred other things. You don't want a phone? That's your choice. I'm not criticising you at all for that. I'm criticising you for trying to force your reasoning on everyone else and saying they shouldn't have a cellphone.

Your problem with your friends being dicks is nothing to do with a cellphone. If you had a cellphone and intelligent friends you would't have a problem.

I rarely call friends on my cellphone, and when I do almost every call is about twenty seconds long ("I'm stuck in traffic so I'll be about twenty minutes", "Okay, see you then") but the huge range of other features on my phone (Maps and navigation, a camera I always have with me, email, alarm clock, diary etc etc mean I'd still have my smartphone even if it couldn't make phone calls.


lol
 
2013-07-28 01:44:27 PM
What does being "computer savvy" have to do with using a cell phone?
 
2013-07-28 01:44:27 PM

ItachiNai: theusercomponent: ItachiNai: theusercomponent: So everybody here thinks AT&T will just give up their DSL business just like that? Comcast monopoly uberalles?

Umm... DSL doesn't have anything to do with the old land lines.  In fact it's among the "new" digital services that major companies like AT&T wants to begin offering only to select markets where they feel the bulk of customers not only want it, but can also afford it.

Live in a housing project due to losing your job after the housing bubble collapse?  Tough beans, no cable/dsl service for you.  We only hook up neighborhoods that we know will pay reliably.

DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.

Well, the point doesn't have anything to do with the physical lines themselves, so much as the old analog phone service that the term "land line" has come to mean.  DSL is carried over the same physical lines, yes, but actual dedicated analog phone  serviceon those lines is what is being talked about.


From TFA: " Experts predict that landline phones with copper wiring may soon be a thing of the past..."

Why would they turn off a service that uses existing infrastructure that will not be removed, and that costs them pennies and they charge $50/mo. for? As long as someone has the infrastructure in place and is willing to pay the ridiculous price, they will keep offering it. Now, they may opt to not repair the infrastructure in certain areas if the amount of customers makes it not profitable, in which case service would end in those areas, as the article mentions with Hurricane Sandy, but the copper wiring in the Midwest is unlikely to be washed away by a hurricane any time soon. The point here as mentioned in TFA is "universal availability". Yes we will no longer have universal availability of landlines very soon. However, some areas of the country (especially the suburban Midwest), will continue to have landline service for a very long time, even if the number customers drops drastically. Now, when the switching stations and other associated hardware begin to fail (50 years or so from now?), then the last landlines will probably begin to disappear, but it won't be until after the baby boomers are all gone. It won't be in the near future. The only way I see the process accelerating is a federal mandate that everybody must have digital communications, because terrorism.
 
2013-07-28 01:46:29 PM

LibertyHiller: I live in the heart of San Francisco and I will have a landline until I die. 1989 taught me some powerful lessons, among them:

* Liquor stores are closed during disasters
* ATMs don't work without electricity
* Neither do refrigerators
* Nor do cordless phones, cell phones, VOIP, etc.
* No matter how uncomfortable you might be, people within a few miles have it much, much worse

I had phone service throughout the night of October 17, and was able to get a long-distance call out before 9pm, while the office and its PBX didn't have power for two days.

My earthquake kit contains (among other things) candles, a few hundred bucks in small bills, lifeboat rations (food and water), first aid supplies. broken-in shoes with clean socks and a Western Electric Princess phone.


Get a propane camp stove. When Wilma hit I was one of the few in the complex with coffee.

/or better, propane grill with a side burner
 
2013-07-28 01:46:52 PM
If I talked to people on the phone a lot, I'd have a land line.  Cell phone voice quality has been getting consistently worse for over a decade.  It's pathetic.  I keep hearing how cellular providers are working to improve voice quality but I sure as Hell haven't seen any improvement.
 
2013-07-28 01:48:57 PM

Flint Ironstag: Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.

Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?


Is this a trick question?

I blame cars, hammers, and guns.
 
2013-07-28 01:49:59 PM

KidneyStone: LibertyHiller: I live in the heart of San Francisco and I will have a landline until I die. 1989 taught me some powerful lessons, among them:

* Liquor stores are closed during disasters
* ATMs don't work without electricity
* Neither do refrigerators
* Nor do cordless phones, cell phones, VOIP, etc.
* No matter how uncomfortable you might be, people within a few miles have it much, much worse

I had phone service throughout the night of October 17, and was able to get a long-distance call out before 9pm, while the office and its PBX didn't have power for two days.

My earthquake kit contains (among other things) candles, a few hundred bucks in small bills, lifeboat rations (food and water), first aid supplies. broken-in shoes with clean socks and a Western Electric Princess phone.

Get a propane camp stove. When Wilma hit I was one of the few in the complex with coffee.

/or better, propane grill with a side burner


Mmmmm. candles and propane tanks.
 
2013-07-28 01:52:37 PM
theusercomponent: [...]  Now, they may opt to not repair the infrastructure in certain areas if the amount of customers makes it not profitable, in which case service would end in those areas, as the article mentions with Hurricane Sandy, but the copper wiring in the Midwest is unlikely to be washed away by a hurricane any time soon.

Just wait until the Yellowstone Caldera erupts, and you're facing a Coyotecano, or Bisonquake.
 
2013-07-28 01:57:06 PM

ItachiNai: It's pathetic that there are still people who have to worry about things like long distance charges.

Then again, it's also pathetic that there are still massive dead zones in populated areas that force people into using land lines just to communicate in the first place.  As long as the telcos refuse to expand their cellular and internet infrastructure (you know, like they promised the FCC they would do well over a decade ago), people living in those zones, regardless of their technical prowess, will still be forced to use archaic technology.

My dad has DSL through the only company that offers any kind of broadband in the area.  He's paying for 5MB down, and gets 1.5.  If he's lucky.  The ISP says that's just how it goes, so he's SOL for any kind of modern day communication unless he's willing to deal with constant lag and dropouts on even simple voice chats (the line also has random latency spikes the ISP refuses to investigate.)  YAY for deregulation!!  >:(


Yes, assurances by telcos, when testifying before the FCC, are pretty much nothing but dark fiber.  Land lines going away?  Not in any current readers lifetime (U.S.).  Even if telcos wanted to (and many gnash their teeth in anticipation) State Public Service Commissions in rural sections of the Country will balk.  Telcos don't want to end up off the bottom rung of some Rural Telephony/Internet Cooperative.(REC's are doing just fine without rolling blackouts/rent seeking).

Read up a bit on the `96 Telecommunications Act (and the lobby of Telcos formed-up by Gingrich).  It was only last year that the FCC got around to beating the drum about Slamming/Cramming ($20 billion a year skim for the Telcos - `that third party $14.95 a month on page 7 of your bill? - sorry, you didn't opt-out when you signed-up for phone service).  Do they fish plenty of cash from the aged idiots? yes.  But the real money is skimmed from small business (not hard to correlate monthly charges with businesses not using dedicated accountants) slipping on $1-$20.00 charges per month for `services' that read like tech/repair charges from phone company but are funneled directly to a `billing aggregator' that in turn pushes the cash through the cut-out `company' and back to the telco.

Technology advances - but don't count on the efficient (for the customer) implementation any time soon
 
DVD
2013-07-28 02:02:22 PM
Here's where I go off on ignorant statements by someone that seems to have not read any of the article or thread.  But later.  For now, the car analogy serves a purpose.  Not for cassettes, but for having hand-cranked windows as opposed to having 360 degree cameras and a good A/C system instead.

The cameras and A/C are very nice, and if affordable, I'd like them on my car, in ADDITION to windows that I can open myself.  Think of an accident that you want to exit the vehicle and the door is damaged.   If you don't have windows (or even if the power to the power windows is gone because of a damaged battery), then you're more likely to be trapped.   (You could still be trapped if the window crank is damaged, but having 4 of them still gives you a possibility of an out).

With landlines, because of the emergency provisions put in them, battery backups, etc, you are likely to still have a way to communicate even of the power is off and the cell phones and cordless phones can't be charged.  A cat1 phone cable on an older phone and you're ok.  Now if we can get battery backups to both the cell phone towers and better solutions to cell phone battery life, that actually could help with the reliability of the system if we do eventually go away from landlines.

But another monkey wrench to throw is the hackability of wireless systems vs. that of fiber-optic lines.


prekrasno: Old farkers probably still want cassette decks in their cars, too.

 
2013-07-28 02:02:47 PM
No, I don't think landlines will -- or should -- vanish. I do, however, think that any phone company that owns at least a piece of an infrastructure that spans so much of the US would be foolish not to consider other ways of using that network for something besides "old peoples' phone calls."
 
2013-07-28 02:05:54 PM

theusercomponent: DSL has a lot to do with land lines. I know in some areas they run new lines, but many customers receive their DSL service over the exact same copper wire that brings the landline service into the home. They're not about to go removing those wires while collecting $30+ for Internet service using them.


Run new copper? That seems a bit silly - if you're going to go to the huge expense of running new cables you might as well make it fibre. I thought that they used the same old copper pair for ADSL and voice.

Here in the UK, ADSL and landline service typically comes bundled together - it's unlikely that you'd be able to save much by not having the landline as the costs of maintaining the lines would be the same with or without it. I like the landline - cheaper call costs and you don't have to repeat yourself all the time because the crappy microphone & codec in a cellphone has rendered you incomprehensible.
 
2013-07-28 02:13:51 PM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com
Please don't cut the hard line.  We need an exit!
 
2013-07-28 02:13:55 PM

p51d007: As those over the age of 65 eventually pass into history, so will the traditional copper phone line.
I've been repair tech, dealing with all aspects of office machines for over 30 years.  With the telcos
not wanting (for obvious reasons $$$) to replace copper trunk lines, you see this more and more, because
it is cheaper to pump liquid nitrogen into the lines to dry them out, than to repair them.



That IS part of the repair process for that sort of cable.  It's also dry nitrogen gas that ends up in the lines, not liquid, they're just using the dewar for transporting a lot of it and letting it boil off into the pressurized cable. These often show up when a pressurized cable needs repair in order to keep downline pressure up, and dry it out after splicing..  They're also pretty common in places like NYC where the cables have gotten enough breaks in the outer jacket that they're needed in places to keep system pressure up because getting at the cable may be very difficult to do in order to repair it.

Newer cables use a filler gel (which is evil stuff) between the pairs to prevent water infiltration.
 
2013-07-28 02:16:12 PM
I have two "POTS" lines through at&t Uverse. Although technically VoIP, the quality is vastly superior to the digital cellular radio handsets. I only talk on my Sprint PCS if I really have to.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:17 PM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


That's the only reason my mother keeps a landline here at home, and this is a few blocks north of Toronto.

/well, that and the 'I don't wanna learn things!' attitude being discussed here
 
2013-07-28 02:21:35 PM

ItachiNai: cwolf20: That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used

There's a point there too.  During 9/11 and Katrina, cell networks were jammed solid with idiots calling one another to spread the news, blocking out real emergency calls for help.  Sometimes there's such a thing as having  toomuch ready access to technology.
Those same networks that were designed to carry voice calls were only marginally upgraded to accommodate data, but I'd wager the bulk of traffic being carried right now is largely Facebook and Instagram noise.


Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.
 
TWX
2013-07-28 02:24:44 PM

p51d007: As those over the age of 65 eventually pass into history, so will the traditional copper phone line.
I've been repair tech, dealing with all aspects of office machines for over 30 years.  With the telcos
not wanting (for obvious reasons $$$) to replace copper trunk lines, you see this more and more, because
it is cheaper to pump liquid nitrogen into the lines to dry them out, than to repair them.

[i392.photobucket.com image 850x566]

Just in the last year, I was able to convince my parents, to ditch their "landline" since they hardly ever
used it, and were spending, with taxes, 30 bucks a month on the phone.  They did the "but what happens
if the power goes out, the cell tower won't work".  Ummm...parents, what kind of landline phone do you have?
Well, cordless of course.  Ummmm...how is it powered?  It's battery powered.  Ummm...and the base station where you charge it?  The wall outlet, duh....ummmm...and if the AC goes out, how is the base station going
to work?   Then they gave me one of those deer in the headlights looks, and said they would cancel their landline phone.


The CO already pressurizes the lines, which is why it's so important for the splice tech to do a good job with his sleeves. It's a shame that that telco chooses to not fix its lines, but it's not typical of all phone companies either.

As to the nature of phones, it's my experience that in a general emergency there simply isn't enough radio spectrum to keep the bulk of subscribers talking, and while the phone itself will run without external power, for a time, if it can't be used to make a call then it's useless. And the argument about a cordless not working is specious at best, as anyone can plug any line-powered corded phone and it's wise to always have at least one line-powered corded phone if one still has home phone service.

Our current phone is through the cable company, and I'm mulling switching back to the phone company. The first place I had a cable-provided phones used a Harris device to produce our phone, and the whole thing was powered from the cable company's CO or from the pedestal, similar to how the phone company powers the lines from the CO. The new system just puts a battery into the cablemodem and gives that cablemodem another function, to provide conversion for the phone. The problem is, no one maintains the batteries other than the subscriber, who probably doesn't even know that they need maintained. My cablemodem has two battery slots but only one battery, and I'm not even sure where to go for more batteries.

When the Boston bombings happened, we were able to reach family in the area on their landlines but weren't able to reach family on cell phones. When at a local comics convention at the convention center, cell phones were utterly useless to communicate with those in our group if we split up, even text messages weren't getting through. If we go back I'm tempted to get my wife to get a ham radio license so we can bypass "the network" and go just radio to radio.

Cell phone service sucks, and that's demonstrated any time there's anything out-of-normal for it to contend with.
 
2013-07-28 02:31:27 PM
Everyone has missed the whole point here,

THEY do not want you to be able to get out of the Matrix

if you try to escape with a digital signal you die.
 
2013-07-28 02:45:06 PM
All you people talking about power outages like its some kind of normal occurrence, are long power outages really a big concern for most people? If so then I guess I never realized the advantages of living in Texas with our independent power grid.  Longest outage I can recall in recent history was about 2-3 hours and that was about 5 years ago when a tornado damaged a sub station, on average we might get one every couple years and they'll last 30-60 minutes if they happen in the middle of the night, 15-30 if it's daytime.
 
2013-07-28 02:47:26 PM
Goimir:
Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.

On the drive in to work that day, three different talk shows (local talk station, Howard Stern and one other I forget right now) were all talking about it.  They were all suspecting some kind of hoax but were convinced by the time I got in to work in Detroit.
By the time I got up on our floor, everybody was crammed into the conference rooms watching it all on the news.  Every channel was covering it.

When they evacuated our building (and most of downtown), every station -even the music ones- were interrupting their programming for updates.  NPR was nonstop of course.

Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless.  Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home.  Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back.  This was of course in Michigan.  How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening?  Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"
 
2013-07-28 02:52:12 PM

Flint Ironstag: Turbo Cojones: Flint Ironstag: here to help: Waldo Pepper: but it is sad to see you equate overpriced cell phones and service with importance.

My point was it is unlikely you are important enough to anyone in society that it is absolutely imperative you can be reached at all times. The vast majority of calls made on celphones is inane jibber jabber that could wait until you get home or to your office. It's a waste of time, money and brainpower.

But you knew that's what I meant, didn't you?

Cellphones aren't anything to do with how "important" you are, and haven't been since the day of Yuppies. Now it's "wife has gone to the store and I've just noticed we're out of mayo but iI can call her" or "I'm stuck in traffic and going to be late so I should call", common everyday occurances where having a cellphone has made a huge ddifference to everyday life.

So your argument is that cell phones are important because they let us maintain appearances while being forgetful and not planning for normal eventualities I take it?

The reality of cell phones as toys dawned on me when a douche that I went out for drinks with sat at the sidewalk table and pulled up "weather.com" to check the weather....While we were sitting outside.  I'm guessing that 99% of all cell phone use is just as important.

Phones are a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or to kill someone. Do you blame the hammer or the person who decides how to use it?

Some people are dicks. Guess what, give them a phone and they'll use a phone like a dick.

You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you ...


Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.
 
2013-07-28 02:59:34 PM

ItachiNai: Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless. Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home. Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back. This was of course in Michigan. How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening? Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"


Or, you know, reassuring their girlfriend that they were safe and on their way home.
 
2013-07-28 03:06:35 PM

Man On A Mission: If I give up my landline, how will I be able to call my cell when I can't remember where I set it down in the house?


I've been thinking about getting one again because of THIS, and because when hurricanes come to floriduh, landlines keep working.
 
2013-07-28 03:09:28 PM

geoduck42: ItachiNai: Meanwhile, my phone was completely useless. Full signal, but couldn't connect to tell my girlfriend I was on the way home. Every network from Detroit to Mt. Morris (north of Flint) was swamped to hell and back. This was of course in Michigan. How many people actually needed to be on the phone throughout the entire day, being nowhere near where things were actually happening? Whole networks brought down by people with nothing more to say than "OMG did you see?!"

Or, you know, reassuring their girlfriend that they were safe and on their way home.


I crossed eight different nodes to get from Detroit to home (two hours away).  Detroit was the only city that was cleared out, and that took four hours.  The networks up north were jammed.  All day.  I doubt there were seriously that many people still making calls home to contact loved ones that far north, and throughout the entire day.
 
2013-07-28 03:09:35 PM
In the past three years, our power has been out for a week on two occasions. Though our cellphones ran out of juice (couldn't find an outlet at the overcrowded Starbucks), our POTS copper landlines kept us connected.

Besides being able to save (and reclaim) copper from the lines, phone companies also save on power and backup capacity (fiber means you pay for the power to run your phones.)
 
2013-07-28 03:29:35 PM

Any Pie Left: Landline phone connections beat the crap out of ANY cell phone I've used.  The cell phones make it all but impossible to talk like you have a true duplex connection; those little vocalizations, like "mmm-hmm, yep,  uh-huh", that you make, as a way to signal comprehension and move a conversation along, don't work well over cel phones because of a palpable delay; the entire conversation grinds to a halt every time you try to interject one word over the other person.. I find the only way to get a clear speech out on my cell is to talk like it's a farking CB radio, taking turns, and this is nothing like a normal human conversation where you talk over each other at certain points.  I find it incredibly unnerving and wearying.


Bears repeating, and same with VOIP at times.
 
2013-07-28 04:00:07 PM

John the Magnificent: "A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report published last year estimated that in Arizona, between January and December of 2011, 38 percent of adults older than 18 already lived in wireless-only households."

Owning a Landline is now considered a disease?  WTF?

Plus, if you lived in Canada you would be an idiot to get rid of your landline.  Our cell rates are ridiculous here due to the Govt. approved Oligopoly we have here.  You have basically 2-3 carriers to choose from and they have goosed the rates to where a basic cell costs $40+ a month as opposed to $20 for a landline.

And if you happen to subscribe to Rogers and want to get something fixed, good luck with their "customer service" robo-system.

"Would you like to 1) Purchase a new Rogers Cell or service, 2) Report a problem?"

"Report a Problem"

"I think I heard you say Purchase a new Rogers cell or service.  I can help you with that..."

A-Holes.


Secret for voice response systems: press 00 to be connected to a person. They never get rid of the old "press 1 for..., press 0 for an associate" system; they merely mapped voice recognition on top of it (so the word 'english' becomes 1, for example). So the old number tones usually still work, even if the prerecorded message doesn't mention them.

/use this knowledge only for good
 
2013-07-28 04:00:58 PM

Waldo Pepper: Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.


That system works great until you turn on the radio/news and hear about a multiple fatality accident wherever the person you know was going. That's some scary farking shiat but I completely agree. Only reason I want to get minutes for the tracphone is for my mom and that's just about safety.

/I heard about my fiance's sister getting into that same kind of wreck on farking wkyt before any calls came in. We sat in absolute horror until the calls came in.
//http://www.wkyt.com/yourtown/locations/laurel/headlines/Two-dead- follo wing-crash-in-Laurel-County-180229221.html
 
2013-07-28 04:20:02 PM
Well the good news is that old people die, so give it 20 years and they will all be gone.
 
2013-07-28 04:37:13 PM
I, for one, NEED my land line. I can't get Internet without it. Also, My cell phone has... No service, currently. This is normal.

/No naked DSL here.
 
2013-07-28 04:46:37 PM

Waldo Pepper: You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you ...

Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.


And before refrigerators we put milk in a bowl full of water with a cloth over it, before microwaves we used the oven, before the internet we had encyclopaedias and Playboy magazines, before cars we had horses, before phones we had telegrams etc etc.

Just because we can manage without something doesn't mean we should, and certainly doesn't prove it was just as good. In your world the traffic reports on the radio manage to report on every single holdup instantly, do they? Plus you have to carry a radio with you.

You know, we managed for centuries without radios....
 
2013-07-28 04:48:49 PM

Sim Tree: "Would you like to 1) Purchase a new Rogers Cell or service, 2) Report a problem?"

"Report a Problem"

"I think I heard you say Purchase a new Rogers cell or service.  I can help you with that..."

A-Holes.

Secret for voice response systems: press 00 to be connected to a person. They never get rid of the old "press 1 for..., press 0 for an associate" system; they merely mapped voice recognition on top of it (so the word 'english' becomes 1, for example). So the old number tones usually still work, even if the prerecorded message doesn't mention them.

/use this knowledge only for good


Or just say nothing. On most systems thirty seconds silence, and a couple of "I can't hear you" promptys, will transfer you to an operator.
 
2013-07-28 04:52:14 PM
The article makes some erroneous statements, but the biggest is that the various Telcos  OWN the copper network,  THEY DO NOT OWN THE COPPER NETWORK.

After the Bell patents expired in the 1890s, numerous telecos sprung up in the US, all using unique standards, and most networks were not interconnected.  By the 1920s the US had the highest density of installed phones, but there were large large numbers of people who couldn't get phone service at a reasonable cost, or any cost.   Live out in the sticks?  Too bad, it costs too much money to run a line out to where you are.  Black neighborhood?  Nope.  Immigrants?  We don't think so.  Or no reason at all.  Why can't we get phone service?  Fark you, that's why.

The above is an example of a "free market" in action.  The telecos were private companies, and they could provide service, or not, to any one for any reason, or no reason, at any price they wanted to charge.  Then the evil commie FDR showed up on the scene demanding that the telecos provide universal service.  The telecos responded that they couldn't do that and stay solvent.  The Feds agreed to heavily subsidized the construction of the POTS network, and to HEAVILY REGULATE THAT NETWORK in exchange for allowing the telecos to form a monopoly.  The POTS network in the USA is actually owned by the public.

The reason why the Baby Bells want the POTS network dead is because the wireless and fiber networks are essentially unregulated. Starting with Reagan, the Feds agreed that  there would be little or no regulation on new telephone systems such as wireless or fiber.  The reasoning was that it would provide an incentive to the Baby Bells to develop new phone technologies without costing the public any money.  This was basically a lie, since the Feds provided billions in tax incentives to the phone companies to build out the wireless and fiber networks.

As things stand now, if you rely solely on wireless and/or fiber you are totally at the mercy of the telecos.   Your service been out for 2 weeks?  Too farking bad.  We decided to triple your monthly rates.  Don't like it?  Too farking bad.  We decided that we will no longer be providing service to you.  Why?  Fark you, that's why.  Yeah, I know, the market will provide a solution.....maybe.  In the mean time, you can go back to sending smoke signals.

For those of you who are praying for a return to a "pure free market system", you are about to get it......get it good and hard.

If you real Muricans had any brains, you'd demand that the POTS network should not be allowed to be switched off UNTIL THERE ARE NEW REGULATIONS PLACED ON WIRELESS AND FIBER.
 
2013-07-28 05:58:42 PM
content7.flixster.com

"Move out of the sticks, gentlemen"
 
2013-07-28 06:20:25 PM

humanshrapnel: [content7.flixster.com image 360x153]

"Move out of the sticks, gentlemen"


How about no. Some of us like to have loud sex without the police showing up at our door every night for "noise complaints."
 
2013-07-28 06:30:19 PM

Waldo Pepper: The nice thing about old fashion landlines (not internet or fios) they always work. If you have a power failure and a standard old phone, you have service and it is great service. No issues with trying to charge your cell phone in your car, no worries about dropped calls

I live in a small rural town and cell service sucks. I have to step out of the house and take a walk to get decent cell reception. My landline just pick up the phone and no worries.


This should have been Weeners. This is the reason I keep my landline.
 
2013-07-28 06:44:20 PM

Flint Ironstag: Waldo Pepper: You can survive without a cellphone. Just as you can survive without a landline, a TV, a car, a microwave oven or a hundred other modern devices people managed without for centuries. But if this person you went out for drinks with got stuck in traffic on the way to meet you wouldn't you call them a dick for not calling you to let you know? Or would you rather just sit there with no idea whether they were stuck in traffic or just forgot about you? Or if you ...

Here is what we used to do in the Old days before cell phones. "oh I guess he/she must be stuck in traffic, I guess I'll do something why I wait" Turns on radio, hears traffic report 95 southbound major backup. "yep just what I thought stuck in traffic"

Life ain't perfect and we dont' need to know what is happening to everyone every second of their and our lives.

And before refrigerators we put milk in a bowl full of water with a cloth over it, before microwaves we used the oven, before the internet we had encyclopaedias and Playboy magazines, before cars we had horses, before phones we had telegrams etc etc.

Just because we can manage without something doesn't mean we should, and certainly doesn't prove it was just as good. In your world the traffic reports on the radio manage to report on every single holdup instantly, do they? Plus you have to carry a radio with you.

You know, we managed for centuries without radios....


Not all of those are better just by being newer.

I'll give you the milk and telegram, well actually I'd imagine that milk tasted better than what we have now. so sort of a wash. 

Microwave pizza doesn't compare to oven baked.
Playboy offered great interviews and articles along with the girls and now young men just grow up with the girls.
Horses are still in use on ranches, farms and by cops
encyclopedias can hold open a door, press a leaf, raise the height of a short person or kid on a chair, allowed kids to research a subject without the chance of stumbling across porn.

I never said cell phones aren't useful, the argument was about their importance.  I feel they have done more harm to society than good. Plus the drain on family budgets from a perceived need is harmful.
 
2013-07-28 07:47:23 PM

Goimir: ItachiNai: cwolf20: That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used

There's a point there too.  During 9/11 and Katrina, cell networks were jammed solid with idiots calling one another to spread the news, blocking out real emergency calls for help.  Sometimes there's such a thing as having  toomuch ready access to technology.
Those same networks that were designed to carry voice calls were only marginally upgraded to accommodate data, but I'd wager the bulk of traffic being carried right now is largely Facebook and Instagram noise.

Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.


Radio stations can be terrible at spreading news. An accident blocked all the east-bound lanes on the major highway and only one station even made a mention of a "suprise for those heading home" with no further details.
 
2013-07-28 07:55:09 PM

Tobin_Lam: Goimir: ItachiNai: cwolf20: That and as long as the internet sometimes goes down in a city rendering internet/phone/tv packages useless in a crisis, yet phone lines remain active.  Then I'd say a landline will continue to be used

There's a point there too.  During 9/11 and Katrina, cell networks were jammed solid with idiots calling one another to spread the news, blocking out real emergency calls for help.  Sometimes there's such a thing as having  toomuch ready access to technology.
Those same networks that were designed to carry voice calls were only marginally upgraded to accommodate data, but I'd wager the bulk of traffic being carried right now is largely Facebook and Instagram noise.

Well someone had to spread the news. All the radio stations maintained their regular format during 9-11, Irene, and Sandy. Clearchannel should have lost their licenses for that.

Radio stations can be terrible at spreading news. An accident blocked all the east-bound lanes on the major highway and only one station even made a mention of a "suprise for those heading home" with no further details.


they used to be a lot better, back in the day with their traffic news planes/helicopters. 

Walt Starling was incredible back in the day in the DC metro area
 
2013-07-28 11:04:11 PM
Today, I finally linked my Google Voice number to my Net10 prepaid feature phone.  I still don't know everything that enables me to do, but it was sweetly easy to call Costa Rica for just 6 cents/minute.  Sound quality was better than whatever cell carrier that phone normally uses, too.
 
2013-07-28 11:18:15 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Today, I finally linked my Google Voice number to my Net10 prepaid feature phone.  I still don't know everything that enables me to do, but it was sweetly easy to call Costa Rica for just 6 cents/minute.  Sound quality was better than whatever cell carrier that phone normally uses, too.


Coolest thing about it is that you can set up a number that's local to your family, and have all incoming calls to that number forwarded wherever you like.  You can even set up multiple alternate voice greetings that you can enable with a click instead of having to record over just the one you get with the cell account.
Incoming voicemails are transcribed (though it's often pretty hilariously bad if the other side is mumbling or slurring their speech badly enough) and you can have those transcriptions forwarded to the email account of your choice, complete with audio attachment of the original message.

Lots of awesome sauce with that thing.
 
2013-07-28 11:26:13 PM

ItachiNai: BarkingUnicorn: Today, I finally linked my Google Voice number to my Net10 prepaid feature phone.  I still don't know everything that enables me to do, but it was sweetly easy to call Costa Rica for just 6 cents/minute.  Sound quality was better than whatever cell carrier that phone normally uses, too.

Coolest thing about it is that you can set up a number that's local to your family, and have all incoming calls to that number forwarded wherever you like.  You can even set up multiple alternate voice greetings that you can enable with a click instead of having to record over just the one you get with the cell account.
Incoming voicemails are transcribed (though it's often pretty hilariously bad if the other side is mumbling or slurring their speech badly enough) and you can have those transcriptions forwarded to the email account of your choice, complete with audio attachment of the original message.

Lots of awesome sauce with that thing.


I've used GV for years on my computer.  Love texting  through a full-sized keyboard. Outbound calls via laptop are great. Voicemail emails are great. Spam filter is great.  Blocking unwanted callers is great.   The whole Web UI is great.  Now I just have to figure out the ramifications of linking GV number to phone.  When I do, I'll write a few words about it and make money.
 
2013-07-29 07:58:33 AM

TWX: When the Boston bombings happened, we were able to reach family in the area on their landlines but weren't able to reach family on cell phones. When at a local comics convention at the convention center, cell phones were utterly useless to communicate with those in our group if we split up, even text messages weren't getting through. If we go back I'm tempted to get my wife to get a ham radio license so we can bypass "the network" and go just radio to radio.


There is always CB or Family Band (those cheap 14-22 channel walkie talkies that can be bought everywhere). Almost nobody uses them anymore so the frequencies aren't typically crowded (at least where I live). They can have a decent range and no license required. Best part is, if you have a HAM radio on the 70 cm band, you can program the family band frequencies in and use that.
 
2013-07-29 08:19:08 AM

humanshrapnel: [content7.flixster.com image 360x153]

"Move out of the sticks, gentlemen"


and give up my view of the lake. Ain't happening
 
2013-07-29 08:26:25 AM
who the fark uses computers anymore.

www.oldcomputers.arcula.co.uk
 
TWX
2013-07-29 11:04:42 AM

captjc: TWX: When the Boston bombings happened, we were able to reach family in the area on their landlines but weren't able to reach family on cell phones. When at a local comics convention at the convention center, cell phones were utterly useless to communicate with those in our group if we split up, even text messages weren't getting through. If we go back I'm tempted to get my wife to get a ham radio license so we can bypass "the network" and go just radio to radio.

There is always CB or Family Band (those cheap 14-22 channel walkie talkies that can be bought everywhere). Almost nobody uses them anymore so the frequencies aren't typically crowded (at least where I live). They can have a decent range and no license required. Best part is, if you have a HAM radio on the 70 cm band, you can program the family band frequencies in and use that.


I had forgotten that that FRS was down there near 70cm. I may have to look into that... I need a 440MHz radio anyway...
 
Displayed 165 of 165 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report