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(Knowlege Nuts)   This man was a card carrying Nazi. He was a hero, saving as many as 250,000 Chinese during the Japanese invasion of Nanking. Not a story you'd expect   (knowledgenuts.com) divider line 193
    More: Interesting, Nanjing, Nazis, Oskar Schindler  
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9830 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2013 at 9:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-28 04:33:45 PM

fishrockcarving: phojo1946: Also remember that until Commodore Perry opened Japan up to Trade in 1856, Japan was closed to all interaction with outsiders.

Not entirely.  They were trading with the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and England from about 1560 to 1630 or so before paranoia set in and they ceased trade with all but the Dutch, and very restricted trade with China until the 1860's which was the start of westernization in Japan, and opening trade and political relations with the rest of the world, and the beginnings of Japanese Imperialism.


The Koreans were very similar. Things didn't go well for French missionaries for quite some time there.
 
2013-07-28 04:39:08 PM

Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment for those who want to talk about how these sorts of things happen. Then take a closer look at climatology.


Propaganda meant to demonize and dehumanize an enemy helps.


And how do you make reasonable people adopt unreasonable opinions? Using authority and compliance effects. Once a figure of authority has influenced people to adopt the opinion that group x is subhuman, the rest will take care of itself.
 
2013-07-28 04:41:13 PM

Pacfanweb: theMagni: vygramul: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities.

The Japanese object to it. But, then, they have a problem when their desire to ignore everything from about 1930 to 8:14am on August 6, 1945 is trampled upon by reality.

"The Japanese Army was famous for its savagery until we nuked them, and suddenly they remembered they were pacifists."

That's about right, in all honesty.    They love to play victim and hold ceremonies for Hiroshima, but they don't teach their kids about the millions and millions they killed throughout Asia, about Unit 731, about the Rape of Nanking, the Korean Comfort Women, Bataan Death March, etc.

They raped, killed and slaughtered for years.   Their public was given accounts of a beheading contest between two soldiers in China.

But the only thing that apparently matters is Hiroshima, which was a legitimate military target, btw, as was Nagasaki.


I'm astonished (not really) by how many people here consider themselves history aficionados, yet don't realize they're selectively remembering history too.  How quickly you forget the Chinese and Koreans, at the behest of the Mongols, pillaged, raped, and ravaged every Japanese person on Tsushima.

The only difference between the Mongols/Chinese/Korean horde in the 1200s acting on Tsushima and Japanese operations in the 1920s-1940s was that the latter was better documented and the sides were switched.
 
2013-07-28 04:46:29 PM

THE GREAT NAME: Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment for those who want to talk about how these sorts of things happen. Then take a closer look at climatology.


Propaganda meant to demonize and dehumanize an enemy helps.

And how do you make reasonable people adopt unreasonable opinions? Using authority and compliance effects. Once a figure of authority has influenced people to adopt the opinion that group x is subhuman, the rest will take care of itself.



Kind of like the way that Obama and Holder are working to stir up interracial tension in the US right now?
 
2013-07-28 04:50:20 PM

Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment for those who want to talk about how these sorts of things happen. Then take a closer look at climatology.


Propaganda meant to demonize and dehumanize an enemy helps.

And how do you make reasonable people adopt unreasonable opinions? Using authority and compliance effects. Once a figure of authority has influenced people to adopt the opinion that group x is subhuman, the rest will take care of itself.


Kind of like the way that Obama and Holder are working to stir up interracial tension in the US right now?


Politicians aren't the only authority figures, and thanks to democracy, often not even very strong ones. With climatology, the authority figures are climatologists, who pass themselves off as science and hence get their authority from that. Just like in Milgram's experiment. Dehumanisation of those who disbelieve is well underway.
 
2013-07-28 04:50:40 PM

PainfulItching: legion_of_doo: PainfulItching: b b b bbbut.... NASA? How would we have beaten the Ruskies to the moon and have all the neat satellite stuff?

We knew how to make sound stages in Hollywood just fine without Leni Riefenstahl.

/Oh, you mean Wernher von Braun or something? Hahaha. That's what they want you to think!

Oy vey. People like you make my brain hurt.


Something, something ... Robert Goddard ... CalTech ... Guggenheim ... something?
 
2013-07-28 05:11:26 PM
Well of course this was a Nazi who was at least partly good.

He wasn't an ILLINOIS Nazi.
 
2013-07-28 05:19:17 PM

nickerj1: Pacfanweb: theMagni: vygramul: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities.

The Japanese object to it. But, then, they have a problem when their desire to ignore everything from about 1930 to 8:14am on August 6, 1945 is trampled upon by reality.

"The Japanese Army was famous for its savagery until we nuked them, and suddenly they remembered they were pacifists."

That's about right, in all honesty.    They love to play victim and hold ceremonies for Hiroshima, but they don't teach their kids about the millions and millions they killed throughout Asia, about Unit 731, about the Rape of Nanking, the Korean Comfort Women, Bataan Death March, etc.

They raped, killed and slaughtered for years.   Their public was given accounts of a beheading contest between two soldiers in China.

But the only thing that apparently matters is Hiroshima, which was a legitimate military target, btw, as was Nagasaki.

I'm astonished (not really) by how many people here consider themselves history aficionados, yet don't realize they're selectively remembering history too.  How quickly you forget the Chinese and Koreans, at the behest of the Mongols, pillaged, raped, and ravaged every Japanese person on Tsushima.

The only difference between the Mongols/Chinese/Korean horde in the 1200s acting on Tsushima and Japanese operations in the 1920s-1940s was that the latter was better documented and the sides were switched.


Well, there's also that whole 700 year time differential.
 
2013-07-28 05:27:15 PM

MooseUpNorth: miss diminutive: In university I met a Japanese exchange student who claimed that the massacre had never taken place, or in his words "the number of dead and events were greatly exaggerated for propaganda purposes" or something to that effect.

That attitude may be widespread in Japanese culture. At least, you can see a lot of surprisingly obtuse historical revisionism creep into anime and video games from Japan.


I don't get it...  Germans admit this part of their past.  Americans are taught about our history of slavery, Japanese internment camps, and (admittedly recently) our relocation/defrauding/genocide of Native Americans.

But the Japanese don't admit Nanking and the Turks don't admit the Armenian Genocide.
 
2013-07-28 05:33:44 PM

Myria: MooseUpNorth: miss diminutive: In university I met a Japanese exchange student who claimed that the massacre had never taken place, or in his words "the number of dead and events were greatly exaggerated for propaganda purposes" or something to that effect.

That attitude may be widespread in Japanese culture. At least, you can see a lot of surprisingly obtuse historical revisionism creep into anime and video games from Japan.

I don't get it...  Germans admit this part of their past.  Americans are taught about our history of slavery, Japanese internment camps, and (admittedly recently) our relocation/defrauding/genocide of Native Americans.

But the Japanese don't admit Nanking and the Turks don't admit the Armenian Genocide.


When a big chunk of your national identity is based on genetic superiority, you can't really focus too much on things that might result in the need to admit guilt or wrong-doing toward groups that you naturally see as inferior.  That might lead to unfortunate things like guilt or the idea that all groups deserve some level of respect that excludes things like mass-rape and decapitation contests.
 
2013-07-28 05:35:49 PM

THE GREAT NAME: Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: Amos Quito: THE GREAT NAME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment for those who want to talk about how these sorts of things happen. Then take a closer look at climatology.


Propaganda meant to demonize and dehumanize an enemy helps.

And how do you make reasonable people adopt unreasonable opinions? Using authority and compliance effects. Once a figure of authority has influenced people to adopt the opinion that group x is subhuman, the rest will take care of itself.


Kind of like the way that Obama and Holder are working to stir up interracial tension in the US right now?

Politicians aren't the only authority figures, and thanks to democracy, often not even very strong ones. With climatology, the authority figures are climatologists, who pass themselves off as science and hence get their authority from that. Just like in Milgram's experiment. Dehumanisation of those who disbelieve is well underway.



Science is a wonderful thing - if you can remove ego, profit, and ulterior motives.

Good luck with that.
 
2013-07-28 05:38:31 PM
// The japs have the record for being the most racist assholes ever - and they are generally sorry for that
/ the nazis and their racist and genetic and homophobic experiments were TERRIBLE but second for what the japs did


I'm not so sure about that, If the Nazis were more successful, and Germany managed to become a superpower, I think the eventual fate of the Japanese is summed up by this satirical from "The Onion" ( lifted from "Our Dumb Century"):

Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme

From the East Asian Correspondent, Sept 1, 1939. -- In a course of action praised by many as "far-sighted" and "tactically brilliant," the Japanese government has sworn its allegiance to the Axis powers led by white-supremacist Nazi Germany. In a formal statement, Japanese leaders declared, "We wish to be counted among the loyal allies of this back-stabbing, racist hate nation."
Following the announcement, Japanese General and military leader Hideki Tojo told reporters, "We are pleased to enter into an alliance with the paranoid, xenophobic government of Nazi Germany. We anticipate a deeply enriching exchange of our military aid with their deep-seated hated of our non-white heritage."
Tojo went on to say that the "unbeatable team" of Germans and Japanese will one dominate the industrialized world as "Aryans and those hated by Aryans, working together."
Likening their war instincts to those of "a very advanced clan of yellow apes," German Chancellor Adolf Hitler praised the government and military of Japan.
"I salute you, chinky-dinky rat men, who have been given life by the confused hand of some long-dead pagan deity," he said. "When Germany stands victorious on a conquered Earth, and Aryan supermen wipe out the undesirable mud races one by one, your like will surely survive to be among the last to be exterminated."
 
2013-07-28 05:39:50 PM

Infernalist: The attack on Pearl Harbor is treated in much the same way.  It's explained as a logical and natural response to the illegal efforts by Western powers to deny them the oil that they needed for their legitimate national defense program.


It's almost as if people have their own gloss on events based on their own point of view, imagine.
 
2013-07-28 05:47:03 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: // The japs have the record for being the most racist assholes ever - and they are generally sorry for that
/ the nazis and their racist and genetic and homophobic experiments were TERRIBLE but second for what the japs did

I'm not so sure about that, If the Nazis were more successful, and Germany managed to become a superpower, I think the eventual fate of the Japanese is summed up by this satirical from "The Onion" ( lifted from "Our Dumb Century"):

Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme

From the East Asian Correspondent, Sept 1, 1939. -- In a course of action praised by many as "far-sighted" and "tactically brilliant," the Japanese government has sworn its allegiance to the Axis powers led by white-supremacist Nazi Germany. In a formal statement, Japanese leaders declared, "We wish to be counted among the loyal allies of this back-stabbing, racist hate nation."
Following the announcement, Japanese General and military leader Hideki Tojo told reporters, "We are pleased to enter into an alliance with the paranoid, xenophobic government of Nazi Germany. We anticipate a deeply enriching exchange of our military aid with their deep-seated hated of our non-white heritage."
Tojo went on to say that the "unbeatable team" of Germans and Japanese will one dominate the industrialized world as "Aryans and those hated by Aryans, working together."
Likening their war instincts to those of "a very advanced clan of yellow apes," German Chancellor Adolf Hitler praised the government and military of Japan.
"I salute you, chinky-dinky rat men, who have been given life by the confused hand of some long-dead pagan deity," he said. "When Germany stands victorious on a conquered Earth, and Aryan supermen wipe out the undesirable mud races one by one, your like will surely survive to be among the last to be exterminated."


Wow, you can hardly call this news - it's from 64 years ago. Get up to date dude!
 
2013-07-28 07:31:59 PM

PainfulItching: skinink: And people say the bombs didn't need to be dropped on Japan.

Interesting factoid, The Purple Heart medals the US are giving our forces now are from the 1940's. They made so many of them when it looked like we would have to take Japan by ground forces that we are still using them. New ribbons, same medals. That's how hard the fighting would have been, and would not have been a slam dunk. That's Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1 and 2, Afghanistan, and other skirmishes like Grenada, and we still have not used that supply.


I read once that the hard tack they used in the Spanish American war was leftovers from the Civil war
 
2013-07-28 07:53:25 PM

Amos Quito: indarwinsshadow: It's 11 years since 9/11. I doubt most of you have gotten past the point where you'd like to see most of Al-Qaeda dead or forgiven the perpetrators and their host countries,


I would hope that MOST of us are bright enough to realize that the attacks were planned and executed by a relatively small number of people, and that the vast majority of those that dwell in their "host countries" had no foreknowledge of and no participation in the attacks of 9-11.


indarwinsshadow: or for that matter have got past your deep dislike and mistrust of Muslims.


The notion that "Muslims", as a whole, were responsible for 9-11 is a vicious propaganda myth pumped out to stir up inter-ethnic hatred and whip-up popular support for unjust wars. That so many of us were gullible to fall for these lies reflects poorly on us as a nation.


indarwinsshadow:  I don't blame you in the slightest, since so many died that day and since, in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


As tragic and evil as the attacks of 9-11 were, those losses pale in comparison to the evil and unjust wars that were prosecuted under the guise of retribution and to "protect us from Terr-rism" - not to mention the collapse of the Rule of Law and loss of our civil liberties domestically. And need I remind you that the allegations that Iraq was somehow involved in 9-11 AND that they possessed WMD's were pernicious LIES that were fed to us to "justify" that totally unjust war?

indarwinsshadow: So, I don't get how the Chinese (or Israelis) could get past the fact that 70 years ago, an entire country of people tried really really hard to exterminate both of them in the most heinous and violent ways possible. I'm not sure I'd have it in me to forgive and move on. I'd still have a lot of hatred in me and want revenge.

Yeah, you go on ahead and writhe in your seething hatred. We've had enough trouble thanks to the lies and hateful, divisive propaganda put out by you and your ilk to serve your own, selfish, ...


Um, suck my left nut Amos. There's something seriously wrong in your head....but you already knew that didn't you, you twisted f*cked up troll.
 
2013-07-28 07:54:12 PM
fastbow:
You know, we could have sat it out. Yeah, the Philippines was an embarrassment, but we didn't really need them. We could have just held Japan at Midway and gone "neener-neener" to Hitler and Mussolini from across three thousand miles of ocean. We didn't have to help you at all.

Well, you know, except for the fact that Germany and Italy declared war on US on December 12th.  That's a key fact that people (not you, but I've heard the sentiment before) who say that the US was tricked into joining the Second World War forget.  The Tripartite Treaty was a self-defense pact; each signatory was only required to come to the aid of another if they were attacked.  Japan was universally the aggressor in 1941.  Hitler brought the US into the European war at his prerogative.
 
2013-07-28 08:24:10 PM

Thurston Howell: Slartibartfaster: I recently went to Nanjing (the western spelling of Nanking is a touch ignorant) [...]

Is it, now.  When you're speaking about Florence do you call it Firenze? What about Japan--do you call it Nihon?  "Japan" is just an ignorant Dutch rendition of the Portuguese "Japao", which was an ignoration rendition of chinese "jih hun". Nihon.  And what about the French (who still call Bejing Pékin).

People need to stop being butthurt when foreigners decide not to use the exact naming and pronunciation of the natives.  It's allowed, and it's okay.


Who is butthurt ?
Your foreign understanding of "butthurt" is a touch ignorant

// In what you claim the french (your chosen example of correctness) call Pékin
/ JING is an important word... NanJING, BeiJING - it is not something you want to fark up if you dont want to appear as a complete ignoramus (hint, Nan=south, Bei=north)
// Im a foreigner just not a farking ignorant one
 
2013-07-28 08:33:15 PM

THE GREAT NAME: Wow, you can hardly call this news - it's from 64 years ago. Get up to date dude!


its not nes its Fark (and the onion)
 
2013-07-28 08:37:53 PM

ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities


The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.
 
2013-07-28 08:45:39 PM

Slartibartfaster: Thurston Howell: Slartibartfaster: I recently went to Nanjing (the western spelling of Nanking is a touch ignorant) [...]

Is it, now.  When you're speaking about Florence do you call it Firenze? What about Japan--do you call it Nihon?  "Japan" is just an ignorant Dutch rendition of the Portuguese "Japao", which was an ignoration rendition of chinese "jih hun". Nihon.  And what about the French (who still call Bejing Pékin).

People need to stop being butthurt when foreigners decide not to use the exact naming and pronunciation of the natives.  It's allowed, and it's okay.

Who is butthurt ?
Your foreign understanding of "butthurt" is a touch ignorant

// In what you claim the french (your chosen example of correctness) call Pékin
/ JING is an important word... NanJING, BeiJING - it is not something you want to fark up if you dont want to appear as a complete ignoramus (hint, Nan=south, Bei=north)
// Im a foreigner just not a farking ignorant one



It's the obsolescent romanization scheme vs. the modern one; calm yourself. Some of us old farts were studying Chinese culture history years before pinyin existed; please forgive us mere mortals for being creatures of habit.

(The ROC didn't adopt pinyin until this century, and if one was doing more business there than with the PRC, it might have been seen as bad manners to get ahead of that curve, depending on who you were dealing with.)

/farking ignorant foreigner
//but I'm getting better
 
2013-07-28 08:56:12 PM

Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.


Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?
 
2013-07-28 09:06:41 PM

vygramul: Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.

Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?


I dont know, seemed odd to me too - its in her biography though
 
2013-07-28 09:09:50 PM

Slartibartfaster: vygramul: Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.

Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?

I dont know, seemed odd to me too - its in her biography though


I suspect it was that the death threats she got drove her insane, because unless she had recently uncovered new JFK assassination footage, I don't see why the U.S. would give fark-all about her writing about the Rape of Nanking. If anything, it came out as Clinton was opening up more trade to China and reinforced their sympathetic character. Makes less sense than Chewbacca being from Endor.
 
2013-07-28 09:15:01 PM

indarwinsshadow: Um, suck my left nut Amos. There's something seriously wrong in your head....but you already knew that didn't you, you twisted f*cked up troll.



Seems like I'm the one getting trolled here.


/Not bad.
//6/10, easy
///tinyhandclap.jpg
 
2013-07-28 09:45:18 PM

Slartibartfaster: Who is butthurt ? Y

our foreign understanding of "butthurt" is a touch ignorant

// In what you claim the french (your chosen example of correctness) call Pékin
/ JING is an important word... NanJING, BeiJING - it is not something you want to fark up if you dont want to appear as a complete ignoramus (hint, Nan=south, Bei=north)
// Im a foreigner just not a farking ignorant one


Here's the deal, chief.  China as a sovereign nation does not have an exclusive culturo-linguo zone out to 1000 nautical miles.  They can't even force the guys who print the maps in other countries to put their preferred names on them. People in other sovereign nations, who speak other languages, are not obliged to change their terminology when the native-speaking country does.  Sometimes--and stop me if this going by too fast--nations adopt the change as an act of courtesy, sensitivity, and clarity (for businesses, travellers, etc).  Other times, as in the French example, they do not give a fark.  Nor even several farks.  See also: las islas Malvinas, Burma, Rangoon, Burkina Faso, Bengaluru, etc.

Hope this clears things up for you, 王八蛋.  All the best.
 
2013-07-28 10:04:46 PM

vygramul: Slartibartfaster: vygramul: Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.

Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?

I dont know, seemed odd to me too - its in her biography though

I suspect it was that the death threats she got drove her insane, because unless she had recently uncovered new JFK assassination footage, I don't see why the U.S. would give fark-all about her writing about the Rape of Nanking. If anything, it came out as Clinton was opening up more trade to China and reinforced their sympathetic character. Makes less sense than Chewbacca being from Endor.



Such atrocities can be powerful political /propaganda tools when used correctly. This is why we carefully select which particular events should be energetically publicized, and which should be largely ignored.

Naturally we focus on those atrocities that serve our larger political agenda. Using these powerful propaganda tools in this way, we can easily sway public thought and opinion to demonize a given group of people and / or generate sympathy for others.

Of course, some of these atrocities either don't serve (or work contrary to) our agenda, and these are therefor largely ignored, and the public quickly forgets.

Out of sight, out of mind.  Works like a charm.

Occasionally the attention of the public will focus on events that are unprofitable, and steps must be taken to minimize any counterproductive public response. Ignoring is always the first choice, followed by misdirection / distraction and, when necessary, propaganda and other measures may be employed.

It is simple consumerism: Political attitudes are as easily influenced as fashion trends.
 
2013-07-28 10:25:33 PM

vygramul: Slartibartfaster: vygramul: Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.

Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?

I dont know, seemed odd to me too - its in her biography though

I suspect it was that the death threats she got drove her insane, because unless she had recently uncovered new JFK assassination footage, I don't see why the U.S. would give fark-all about her writing about the Rape of Nanking. If anything, it came out as Clinton was opening up more trade to China and reinforced their sympathetic character. Makes less sense than Chewbacca being from Endor.


Don't forget we (The US) locked up a bunch of Japanese, whether they were American citizens or not. George Takei has written extensively about going through it. Most of them were given something on the order of a couple of days to sell homes and businesses, then put on a bus to camps either in the desert, or places like Arkansas and Idaho. It was a "take what you can carry" situation. Not pretty. An overreaction by the Roosevelt administration, and apologized for officially by Reagan. No country is immune to overreaction. The Supreme court even upheld the internment camps. They held some German and Italian Americans as well, but that was a very small percentage.
 
2013-07-28 10:43:53 PM

PainfulItching: vygramul: Slartibartfaster: vygramul: Slartibartfaster: ronaprhys: Read "The Rape of Nanking".  From what I can tell, it's an even-handed accounting of the atrocities

The author of that book (I quite liked it) later commited suicide after repeated threats from the Japanese an the Americans.

Why would Americans threaten Iris Chang?

I dont know, seemed odd to me too - its in her biography though

I suspect it was that the death threats she got drove her insane, because unless she had recently uncovered new JFK assassination footage, I don't see why the U.S. would give fark-all about her writing about the Rape of Nanking. If anything, it came out as Clinton was opening up more trade to China and reinforced their sympathetic character. Makes less sense than Chewbacca being from Endor.

Don't forget we (The US) locked up a bunch of Japanese, whether they were American citizens or not. George Takei has written extensively about going through it. Most of them were given something on the order of a couple of days to sell homes and businesses, then put on a bus to camps either in the desert, or places like Arkansas and Idaho. It was a "take what you can carry" situation. Not pretty. An overreaction by the Roosevelt administration, and apologized for officially by Reagan. No country is immune to overreaction. The Supreme court even upheld the internment camps. They held some German and Italian Americans as well, but that was a very small percentage.


Compared to the U.S. wanting to assassinate Iris Chang for writing a book about Japanese war crimes in China, those are under-reactions. It makes no sense. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I'm not buying it.
 
2013-07-28 11:04:29 PM
vygramul:

Compared to the U.S. wanting to assassinate Iris Chang for writing a book about Japanese war crimes in China, those are under-reactions. It makes no sense. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I'm not buying it.

I'm just saying, there are more angles to this. And according to her biography, a few extra angles maybe in her head. Who knows who she talked to off the record. Japan got rebuilt by US funds after the war. Comparatively, China got bupkus from us, even though they helped us as much as they could, and paid the price for it.

Doolittle's raid that I mentioned earlier? Some of those planes landed/ditched in China (only enough fuel for a one way trip), a sort of Chinese underground got most of the pilots out, and thousands of Chinese paid the price for helping Americans when the wreckage was found, but no bodies were.
 
2013-07-28 11:14:37 PM
Plus, dear heart, she offed herself. It could have had nothing to do with the books, remember that. 2 year old kid at the time too. Damn shame.
 
2013-07-29 12:12:30 AM

PainfulItching: vygramul:

Compared to the U.S. wanting to assassinate Iris Chang for writing a book about Japanese war crimes in China, those are under-reactions. It makes no sense. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I'm not buying it.

I'm just saying, there are more angles to this. And according to her biography, a few extra angles maybe in her head. Who knows who she talked to off the record. Japan got rebuilt by US funds after the war.  Comparatively, China got bupkus from us, even though they helped us as much as they could, and paid the price for it.

Doolittle's raid that I mentioned earlier? Some of those planes landed/ditched in China (only enough fuel for a one way trip), a sort of Chinese underground got most of the pilots out, and thousands of Chinese paid the price for helping Americans when the wreckage was found, but no bodies were.


Mao Tse-tung's communist regime did not receive any US aid, but before the communist takeover of mainland China, Chiang Kai-shek received lots of US aid which continued after he was ousted by the communists and moved his government to Taiwan.

The Chinese population certainly helped American aviators of the Doolitlle raid, but do not forget that  several US aviators had already died fighting the Japanese in defence of China
 
2013-07-29 12:19:09 AM

capt.hollister: PainfulItching: vygramul:

Compared to the U.S. wanting to assassinate Iris Chang for writing a book about Japanese war crimes in China, those are under-reactions. It makes no sense. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I'm not buying it.

I'm just saying, there are more angles to this. And according to her biography, a few extra angles maybe in her head. Who knows who she talked to off the record. Japan got rebuilt by US funds after the war.  Comparatively, China got bupkus from us, even though they helped us as much as they could, and paid the price for it.

Doolittle's raid that I mentioned earlier? Some of those planes landed/ditched in China (only enough fuel for a one way trip), a sort of Chinese underground got most of the pilots out, and thousands of Chinese paid the price for helping Americans when the wreckage was found, but no bodies were.

Mao Tse-tung's communist regime did not receive any US aid, but before the communist takeover of mainland China, Chiang Kai-shek received lots of US aid which continued after he was ousted by the communists and moved his government to Taiwan.

The Chinese population certainly helped American aviators of the Doolitlle raid, but do not forget that  several US aviators had already died fighting the Japanese in defence of China


Correct, and that was before December 7, 1941. One of the notables being Pappy Boyington. Then they were pulled back to the fleet, and commissioned into the Navy/Marines (The Pacific was the Marines war, The Army had Europe)
 
2013-07-29 12:35:34 AM

Thurston Howell: Other times, as in the French example, they do not give a fark. Nor even several farks. See also: las islas Malvinas, Burma, Rangoon, Burkina Faso, Bengaluru, etc.


You can call it Burma, but it will always be Myanmar to me.

/Yeah, that's backwards, right?
//Like anybody;s gonna notice, eh?
 
2013-07-29 12:58:49 AM

fishrockcarving: Thurston Howell: Other times, as in the French example, they do not give a fark. Nor even several farks. See also: las islas Malvinas, Burma, Rangoon, Burkina Faso, Bengaluru, etc.

You can call it Burma, but it will always be Myanmar to me.

/Yeah, that's backwards, right?
//Like anybody;s gonna notice, eh?


images.autoline.pt

I once made a berm with MyYanmar.
 
2013-07-29 08:41:24 AM

vygramul: Compared to the U.S. wanting to assassinate Iris Chang for writing a book about Japanese war crimes in China, those are under-reactions. It makes no sense. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I'm not buying it


It was her claim, I dont find it logical but it was in her notes.
Suicidal people often say weird shiat.

// on a side note: USA was dominant in the politics of Japan around the time she killed herself, it is viable
 
2013-07-29 10:12:10 AM

Infernalist: instantwin: EdNortonsTwin: Nanking and orher atrocities, events like Pearl Harbor and such are glazed over in Japanese schools.

In Germany on the other hand, that part of history is teached in a way as to embarass and instill guilt into kids born decades after the fact. Seems the flow of German tax money to the eternal victims will go on for quite a while.

So it seems like the Japanese are better off, doesn't it?

Let's see...The Japanese are almost universally hated by all their neighbors and are only treated with the barest of non-hostility due to their extremely close connection to the U.S...

Meanwhile, the Germans are all but leading the EU and are looked upon as a nation to admire and treated with a great deal of respect, even by those nations that they once conquered and nearly destroyed less than a century ago.

You tell me.


The West (non Soviet) Germans also farked the pony on the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich.
 
2013-07-29 12:05:21 PM

PainfulItching: The West (non Soviet) Germans also farked the pony on the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich.


The '72 fiasco pretty much gave everyone notice that they weren't prepared for this sort of thing. MAYBE the LAPD SWAT could have handled it, but in '72, pretty much any metropolitan police force was not equipped or trained to deal with that kind of thing. I can't blame them at all.
 
2013-07-29 12:18:28 PM
I don't deny the Rape of Nanjing at all.  However, my impression is that there was enormous geographic variation in Japanese rule.

My girlfriend's parents and grandparents lived in what was at one point Manchuko.  Her grandmother horrified the family once by saying "the Japanese time" was "very good."
 
2013-07-29 01:45:11 PM

on the road: My girlfriend's parents and grandparents lived in what was at one point Manchuko.  Her grandmother horrified the family once by saying "the Japanese time" was "very good."


Mao was a prick, so does not surprise me
his tomb (which stands in front the forbidden city) is freaking offensive large
It faces it - directly across from it north of the forbidden city, the queues are huge to get into it

bye bye old emperor hello new emperor

// got a pocket full of RMB with that dudes face on it
 
2013-07-29 02:17:06 PM

Amos Quito: darwin


Not trolled. Told to seriously get a life. There really is something wrong with a guy who comes out swinging when I plainly said 1) I understand that Americans are angry at Al-Qaeda and Muslims and 2) It's a better person than me who can over come their hatred.

You on the other hand took it in your farked up sh*t for brains head to pick a fight for no apparent reason. So plainly. F*ck off. I'm not interested in your opinion. Go eat shiat, go f*ck your mother, go jump in front of a car and get run down. I don't care.
 
2013-07-29 02:35:22 PM

indarwinsshadow: Amos Quito: darwin

Not trolled. Told to seriously get a life. There really is something wrong with a guy who comes out swinging when I plainly said 1) I understand that Americans are angry at Al-Qaeda and Muslims and 2) It's a better person than me who can over come their hatred.

You on the other hand took it in your farked up sh*t for brains head to pick a fight for no apparent reason. So plainly. F*ck off. I'm not interested in your opinion. Go eat shiat, go f*ck your mother, go jump in front of a car and get run down. I don't care.



You sound hateful. Enjoy.
 
2013-07-29 04:39:08 PM

Amos Quito: indarwinsshadow: Amos Quito: darwin

Not trolled. Told to seriously get a life. There really is something wrong with a guy who comes out swinging when I plainly said 1) I understand that Americans are angry at Al-Qaeda and Muslims and 2) It's a better person than me who can over come their hatred.

You on the other hand took it in your farked up sh*t for brains head to pick a fight for no apparent reason. So plainly. F*ck off. I'm not interested in your opinion. Go eat shiat, go f*ck your mother, go jump in front of a car and get run down. I don't care.


You sound hateful. Enjoy.


He only hates bigots.
 
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