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(Daily Mail)   There are still a few Nazis out there, so take a good a look at that old man down the street. You never know   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 57
    More: Obvious, war criminals, Simon Wiesenthal Center, Nazis, Third Reich, accessory to murder, Holocaust victims, sobibor, Efraim Zuroff  
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8576 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2013 at 10:11 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-07-27 07:54:58 PM
5 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


Wait - are you proposing a statute of limitations on murder, or an age limit on murder, or both?

Because I can't agree those are reasonable. These people need to be hunted down and locked up at German expense. They shouldn't be allowed to live out their remaining 1-20 years in peace. (Seriously, how would you feel if one of them made it to 115? Likely, they have 1-7 years.) This serves multiple purposes, not the least of which is deterrence.

I might be willing to offer up some kind of plea deal amnesty for people who turn themselves in right now, complete with confession and details about their compatriots, escape, and other relevant information. In exchange, they get 5 years. Who knows? It's a gamble and they might get out to enjoy a few before they go.
2013-07-27 10:54:08 PM
4 votes:
...Myself I kinda think that seeing an elderly Nazi in the dock,  facing justice even after all these years, might have a sobering effect on the next would-be conqueror who thinks he can get away with it.
2013-07-27 10:45:24 PM
4 votes:

baufan2005: Sorry, they may have committed unspeakable evil at one point but I just dont see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.


Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.



Vengeance nothing. There isn't--and nor should there be--a statute of limitation on murder, crimes against humanity, etc. Just because they've eluded justice for 60-70 years, does not justify letting them off the hook.
2013-07-27 09:25:05 PM
4 votes:
robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com

Do not be concerned. This guy looks legit.
2013-07-27 11:53:29 PM
3 votes:
So when does the world start punishing, you know, American war criminals?
2013-07-27 10:49:12 PM
3 votes:
So when are the Mossad assassins going to face trial? If we're serious about justice and all.
2013-07-27 10:15:58 PM
3 votes:
Sorry, they may have committed unspeakable evil at one point but I just dont see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.
2013-07-27 09:53:55 PM
3 votes:
Simon Wiesenthal Center reminds us to never lose a war.
2013-07-27 07:37:13 PM
3 votes:
Simon Wiesenthal Center is about the money. They have a cozy thing going but have to find a "Nazi" once in while to look legit.
2013-07-28 06:16:20 AM
2 votes:
Your 12-year-old son, 15-year-old daughter, and your wife of 20 years have all been found murdered in your home that's been robbed, stabbed to death when they interrupted the home intruder.  The police work the case hard, but nothing turns up.  A year passes.  Two years.  Are you over it?  Do you ask the police to call off the investigation?  Of course not.  5 years pass.  10.  At what point do you tell the police to put away the file and forget all about it?

Never, of course.  You could live another 30 or 40 or even 50 years, and still never forget that the person who murdered your family was never caught.  If you're a mentally healthy person you've moved on and built a new life for yourself, but you'd never forget.  It's not about vengeance, and it's not about perennial victim hood.  It's about justice, or more specifically, closure.  You've been the victim of a terrible crime, and the loop has been left open.  Most normal, sane people need that loop closed.

Those of you advocating some kind of statute of limitations on murder and genocide haven't thought this through.  Simple as that.  Put yourself in a victim's shoes, and then ask yourself honestly if you'd still be advocating letting them off the hook.  There are good reasons why murder has no statute of limitations.  Justice is served whether the perp is 20 or 90.  Yes, at 90 it's too little too late, but a little is better than none at all.  The only people who would say it's worthless are those people who are seeking vengeance and not justice, so I guess that tells us a little about what worldview filter advocates of limitations are putting this situation through.
2013-07-28 12:18:18 AM
2 votes:

Vectron: Simon Wiesenthal Center is about the money. They have a cozy thing going but have to find a "Nazi" once in while to look legit.


You mean there is a jewish group out there running a system with little practical benefit but rakes in tons of cash for themselves, and gets supporters by using guilt? I don't believe it!
2013-07-27 11:57:17 PM
2 votes:
Night of Glass was in 1938, Germany invaded Poland in 1939.  For Simplicity lets say the war started in 1940.  There were Brown shirt activities before, but 1938 to 1939 is when things started.

Assuming the person was twenty in 1940, then are at +73 years in 2013.

So we are look at a target age of 93 for those that might be considered responsible adults in Germany that may have considered war crimes.

If the evidence is more than just a grainy black and white photo of an alleged SS person comparing them to the 93 or older German or Austrian is just stupid.

If there was a child involved where DNA can be compared, light it up.  But I am tired of show trials with alleged claims to remind people of the Shoah.

/For the record, there has been the Khmer Rouge, Turks vs Armenians, Rwanda and others I forget off the top of my head.  I don't see a PR machine streaming pretty much the same movie about those events for decades on.  I have the deepest respect for the survivors and the children of them, but it is time to move on.

//Rephrased, you can't play victim forever.
2013-07-27 11:26:24 PM
2 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.

What's the statute of imitations on genocide?

Is it "justice" if served within X years, but "vengeance" if it's X+1 years?


Justice is not pointless retribution, regardless of the years.

Is something gained from punishing the few nazis left? I don't believe so. If you think there is, then explain that. Don't hide behind some catch all authoritarian shield like 'justice', especially not as a synonym for revenge.
2013-07-27 11:10:19 PM
2 votes:
vygramul:

These people need to be hunted down and locked up at German expense. They shouldn't be allowed to live out their remaining 1-20 years in peace. (Seriously, how would you feel if one of them made it to 115? Likely, they have 1-7 years.)

Unfortunately it also illustrates the claim that "the Jews are terribly vindictive." And ya gotta admit it is pretty vindictive. "We will hunt you to the ends of the Earth for the rest of your lives!"


This serves multiple purposes, not the least of which is deterrence.

Deterring what, exactly? Another "race"-based series of government-organized mass murders? Does the word "Rwanda" mean anything to you?

Or do you mean another "heroic challenge to Zionist domination?" The last big thing, the Yom Kippur War of 1973, didn't go so well thanks to the Nixon administration both arming Israel and protecting it with the US' "nuclear umbrella," and no subsequent US administration has said anything to indicate it's now okay to attack Israel. That does a lot more to protect "the Jews" than hunting down every doddering old Nazi.

What exactly do you hope to deter? "[The] evil that lurks in the hearts of men?"

Hunt them down and torment them if you must but don't pretend it serves any other purpose than revenge.

"Hello, my name is Shimon Rubinstein. You killed my great-grandfather 70 years ago. Prepare to be miserable for every remaining second of your drooling pants-shiatting life!"

Are there no more productive endeavors to be attempted?  Are there no widows and orphans who need protecting? Are there no more recent war crimes to be detected? Has world peace suddenly broken out?

If nothing else try a nice hobby. There's a lot to be said for stamp collecting.
2013-07-27 10:54:52 PM
2 votes:
a quick scan of the thread shows the usual prententious prattle about dresden and hiroshima

the amusing part is what this pretentious prattle would have gotten them in the regimes that were supported by the citizens of dresden and hiroshima

pity is a luxury
2013-07-27 10:50:23 PM
2 votes:

Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.


What's the statute of imitations on genocide?

Is it "justice" if served within X years, but "vengeance" if it's X+1 years?
2013-07-27 10:33:00 PM
2 votes:
As long as we indulge the victims of crimes, we'll always have victims seeking revenge.

Once we divorce law and punishment from revenge, we'll have a just society.
2013-07-27 08:40:32 PM
2 votes:
Tell me a story--Will ya, Will ya
A real good story, I won't leave till ya
Spill your guts old man
Leave out any secrets, Hiding in the..

Any skeletons, and all your other sins
Any skeletons, in the closet
Any skeletons, any misfortunes
Any skeletons, hiding in the closet
Any skeletons, Any skeletons
In the Closet!
2013-07-28 08:05:13 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: Misconduc: There are numerous accounts

Was, shall we say, inaccurate?

Look at Simon Wiesenthalfor example, he's a nazi hunter that wrote quite a few books, until recently people compared the books and information he has, and found out he basically took partial information and filled in the blanks with his own lies and hearsay. Now nothing he says is credible, unfortunately I am not allowed to cite any of his work in anything I do, which makes researching that much more complicated.

You're NOT ALLOWED to cite his work? By whom, your employer? Because that's the only one who has any such authority over that.



I would think that anyone who wishes their own work to be taken seriously would avoid citing the works of those that are known to have repeatedly lied and committed fraud for their own self aggrandizement:

For example:

"A United States Congressional Resolution lauded him as being "instrumental in the capture and conviction of more than 1,000 Nazi war criminals, including Adolf Eichmann, the architect of the Nazi plan to annihilate European Jewry." But Isser Harel, the mastermind who headed Israel's Security Services at the time of Eichmann's capture, insisted that Wiesenthal played no role in the operation. In fact, according to Harel, Wiesenthal almost sabotaged the whole effort when he shared information that had been given to him in strictest confidence. While Harel's account of this episode in The House on Garibaldi Street may be somewhat self-serving, he is by no means the only one to denounce Wiesenthal as a self-promoter and even a fraud. Other critics have accused him of falsely taking credit for finding criminals and repeatedly inventing information unsupported by any data."


So yeah, Wiesenthal is not exactly the best source to cite.
2013-07-28 04:01:45 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


They will be happy with the publicity, keeping everybody aware of a horrible piece of history which somehow justifies all the horrible history Israel, and her agents in other countries, are creating today. Which is why, right after 9/11, Discovery Times and the History Channel went to a 24/7 Nazi/Holocaust format. They kind of told on themselves with that.
2013-07-28 03:41:18 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: Can they prove these guys committed atrocities just because they were Nazis? Our soldiers committed some pretty sick shiat when we were in Viet Nam. Should we round up all Viet Nam vets?


But the victims were not Jews.
2013-07-28 01:29:45 PM
1 votes:

Pumpernickel bread: Unless Hitler actually got away and is still around, at this point, I am perfectly willing to just let it go.  If we need any proof that these guys aren't really monsters, but just soldiers following orders, it is they have been able to lead productive lives abiding by the laws of whatever nation they ended up in for close to 70 years.

Besides, so much time has passed,  I think it would be impossible to give any of then a fair trial.


If you believe this, then there is no way you can enforce the Nuremberg Doctrine in the least. Following orders will become a legitimate defense to any inhuman act.
2013-07-28 12:10:53 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: No, that was to put things into perspective.


Right, the perspective in which only those who have suffered pain equal or greater to yours can weigh in on a discussion about justice, and otherwise get dismissed entirely.

One minute you talk of justice and tell me that since I've never been stabbed like you I can't understand it.
Then you say it is justice because of the rule of law.
Now you admit that justice and rule of law are sometimes at odds, but that we as a nation cannot ever toss out rule of law.

You are all over the road, because you have replaced reason and logic with emotion.  I don't respect you any less for it, but it does nothing to bolster your argument.  Step back from this for a second.  Thus far you have failed to stick to a point; you respond to each of my posts by switching to a different tactic. You have made the discussion personal, about what you think my experiences are and why yours make your view somehow more valid.


If you honestly think a single wanna-be race criminal is deterred or shown whats-what by the continued nazi hunt, you are out of your mind.  For that to happen someone would have to thinking "gee, I'd like to murder some xxx, and I will definitely get away with it in the short term at least, but what will happen to me when I'm 95?" You aren't sending anyone any messages here.  Nobody thinks anyone has forgotten. Nobody thinks society will accept their potential fourth reich. What continued use of resources hunting 95 year old nazies does is waste resources that could be better applied elsewhere.

hubiestubert: revenge--which you seem obsessed with


The obsession is clearly yours. How can I be obsessed with revenge when by your own knowledge you are certain I've never been hurt by racism in my life? How can I be the one obsessed with revenge when I'm calling for the opposite of revenge, and you are calling for the spending of resources, no matter how great, to preserve the rule of law and justice, which you admit may or may not actually have meaning, in order to get justice for the victimized?  That is revenge if ever I looked at it. If you stopped filling your thoughts with emotions and assumptions about me, you might be capable of seeing that is all you've argued for in this thread, with the half-assed support of an extremely weak appeal to deterrence.
2013-07-28 11:24:22 AM
1 votes:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: I'd feel better about this if there were ANY efforts in the US to prosecute high-level financial criminals for acts causing widespread distress, poverty, and stress-related death to millions, as well as prosecution for businessmen and scientists who sign off on unsafe food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other consumer products.


Hitler's mistake was in not forming a limited-liability corporation.
2013-07-28 10:55:22 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


Yeah, how dare we pay to prosecute war criminals. I am sure they are totes sorry for what they did.
2013-07-28 10:14:07 AM
1 votes:
I'd feel better about this if there were ANY efforts in the US to prosecute high-level financial criminals for acts causing widespread distress, poverty, and stress-related death to millions, as well as prosecution for businessmen and scientists who sign off on unsafe food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other consumer products.

How about protecting people NOW, not just going after the pawns of a foreign regime brought down a lifetime ago?  But then isn't it so that power confers immunity, and the war criminal is someone who no longer has power, if they ever had it at all?
2013-07-28 07:54:02 AM
1 votes:
ReapTheChaos: I'm not saying they shouldn't be brought to justice, but if 40-50 years has gone by and you're still needing closure then I would argue that you have mental health issues.

This sort of argument structure is generally used by people who are ashamed of what they believe. I'm not racist, but... I'm not homophobic, but... I don't support suicide bombing, but... I don't cheat on my taxes, but... I don't think it's ok to drink drive, but...

Be a little more honest. Don't use the 'but'. If your position is untenable or morally reprehensible, just let that be up-front and evident.

/I don't mean to be a jackass, but...
HKW
2013-07-28 07:35:43 AM
1 votes:

NeedlesslyCanadian: baufan2005: Sorry, they may have committed unspeakable evil at one point but I just dont see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.

Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.


Vengeance nothing. There isn't--and nor should there be--a statute of limitation on murder, crimes against humanity, etc. Just because they've eluded justice for 60-70 years, does not justify letting them off the hook.


Their "crimes" is what we say say they are --  since we won the war and all.   Lots of 'attrocities' occur in war, but since we won, we get to choose which ones are punishable.   For example, In 1943, in the pivotal Atlantic convoy battle of ONS-5 vs wolfpacks, U-125 was rammed by an escort in thick fog.   The crew of the sub scuttled and abandoned the ship.  The escort asked permission to retrieve the surviving crew bobbing in the cold water.   "Not approved to pick up survivors" was the reply.
Since 'we' won the war, Lieutenant Commander Robert Sherwood (the man who sent that order) gets to relax in his rocking chair and die an honorable & brave serviceman who was forced to make hard life & death decisions in critical times under combat conditions.
Had Germany won the war, the Max Fritzmann center would be issuing a bounty for the capture of war criminal Robert Sherwood who refused aid & allowed survivors to die contrary to customary international law.
Ironically, at the Nuremberg trials, This exact same charge - not picking up survivors of a shipwreck - was one of the many directed against Dornitz.
2013-07-28 07:21:54 AM
1 votes:
Can they prove these guys committed atrocities just because they were Nazis? Our soldiers committed some pretty sick shiat when we were in Viet Nam. Should we round up all Viet Nam vets?
2013-07-28 05:45:09 AM
1 votes:
Meh.... When the people you're looking for are most likely drooling in a wheelchair in the corner of the dayroom at the local Old Folks Home, it's less about "justice", and more about people at the Simon Weisenthal Center realizing that they need to justify their own relevance if the paychecks are gonna keep rolling in.

There's a reason that movie themes quit using the 'Old Nazi Hiding in South America' thing back in the 80s, most people don't feel the need for "revenge" when there are almost no people left who even remember the events in question anymore...

Seriously everyone is either dead or has moved on.

Except the Jewish folk...

This seems to be their specialty.
fdr
2013-07-28 05:26:42 AM
1 votes:

baufan2005: Sorry, they may have committed unspeakable evil at one point but I just dont see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.


So if I murder 500 innocent people the day before I'm 90, I get to walk because you just don't see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.
fdr
2013-07-28 05:01:34 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


No. They do it to deliver justice and keep the memory of those that died alive. Or, I suppose, we could forget justice and all that and save taxpayers a few bucks.
2013-07-28 03:20:03 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Amos Quito: Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.


Who said they wanted "justice"?

/Haters gonna' hate
//More hate for the Hate God
/// Insatiable

Glad to see you in another Israel thread.

Oh, wait...



I know you guys don't like him for impolitely pointing out all the ugly stuff that Israel is about, but I find him to be a nice offset for the shills and JIDF crazies that inevitably wind up in these threads.

He's right about the hate bit.  All the Zionists seem to have this hard on about being hated, and it translates to a lot of hate on their part, whether it is valid or not.
2013-07-28 02:50:27 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Because I can't agree those are reasonable. These people need to be hunted down and locked up at German expense. They shouldn't be allowed to live out their remaining 1-20 years in peace. (Seriously, how would you feel if one of them made it to 115? Likely, they have 1-7 years.) This serves multiple purposes, not the least of which is deterrence.


If they've made it to their 90s, they've as good as escaped. They probably won't know what's going on at the trial, nor that they're in jail (if they live long enough). The countless genocides, ethnic cleansings, and eugenics programs that have been carried out since the Nuremberg trials (some by Israel) prove that these trials have zero deterrence value.

This doesn't mean that war criminals shouldn't be put on trial, of course, but it gets a bit pointless when the crime in question was so long ago. I'd like to see the Wiesenthal centre go after people who've committed more recent atrocities, like the people involved in the massacres in Rwanda, Indonesia, or Yugoslavia. They could even look into that israeli eugenics program.
2013-07-28 01:19:41 AM
1 votes:
I can see their point. Basically, they're trying to send a message, loud and clear, that after over a thousand years of pogroms, persecutions, expulsions, blood libels, anti-Semitic riots, genocides, and just general "Kill the Jewish guy because Christ something..." that anyone, repeat, ANYONE, starting that shiat again will get put on trial, if they're a hundred years old, if they're in a foreign country, if they're on the dark side of the friggin' moon, and their family and friends will know exactly what they did and when. If the guy's dead, hell, they'll put his zombie ass on trial, fark him over, and bury him and dig him up again just to make the frigging point: STOP farkING WITH THE JEWS.
2013-07-28 01:03:29 AM
1 votes:
If we're talking about someone who was 17 when they were drafted into the Wermacht and spent their tour unloading trucks, I say fine; leave them alone.  Chances are they weren't left with much choice.

But the idea that people who committed crimes against humanity shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes becuase of their age is complete horseshiat.  If they're the person responsible, hold them accountable.
2013-07-28 12:48:52 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

Wait - are you proposing a statute of limitations on murder, or an age limit on murder, or both?

Because I can't agree those are reasonable. These people need to be hunted down and locked up at German expense. They shouldn't be allowed to live out their remaining 1-20 years in peace. (Seriously, how would you feel if one of them made it to 115? Likely, they have 1-7 years.) This serves multiple purposes, not the least of which is deterrence.

I might be willing to offer up some kind of plea deal amnesty for people who turn themselves in right now, complete with confession and details about their compatriots, escape, and other relevant information. In exchange, they get 5 years. Who knows? It's a gamble and they might get out to enjoy a few before they go.


Statute? No.
Age limit? No.
Statute in conjunction with age? Possibly.

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing deterrence when talking about aging concentration camp guards who are so old they likely can't remember what they ate for breakfast by the time sunset rolls around; and thinking "By god, we can't let these guys get away; it will set such a bad example for future concentration camp guards who might want to do likewise!!" Legality and illegality in the context of genocide is laughable--it only becomes illegal if your side loses AND if you get caught AND if the other side can prove you were in a position to be able to meaningfully refuse your orders. Do you really think that punishing an elderly Nazi prison camp executioner will deter someone convinced of the righteousness of killing all the Tutsis or Sunnis he can find in case someday he MIGHT be on the wrong side of history? Deterrence is the least, and worst, argument you could possibly make for tracking down and punishing these guys.

Sooner or later, the last of the Nazis will die, and some if not most will have escaped justice. Jews must accept this, much as survivors of the Armenian genocide must accept they will likely never see justice for their dead loved ones, and survivors of the Holodomor will never see complete justice, and survivors of the Rwandan genocide, and survivors of the Serbian genocide, and on and on and on. Nobody is suggesting (okay, I"m sure someone is, but it isn't me) that we say "Oh, these poor old men, let them die in peace," but at some point there must be a realization that time is not on the side of vengeance. At what point do the Jews become like the Inquisition of old, digging up defunct (i.e., dead) heretics and dispossessing their heirs because of past misdeeds?

If the fear is that "these guys will get away with heinous crimes"--guess what. They already did. It has been sixty or seventy years since their crimes against humanity and any "justice" exacted now is merely token justice exacted in the names of victims likewise seventy years in their graves. There is no way to un-write time and get justice for those victims; nor is there at this point in their lives a way to make these criminals pay in any meaningful way for what they did. Does that mean there is no justice in the world? Is that tantamount to letting all murderers get away with murder? Do we have to, as you suggest, create a statute of limitations on murder or an age limit on who can be prosecuted? If you feel that letting a few old men in highly unusual situations like this not be prosecuted is equivalent to letting ALL old men get away with murder, then I'm sorry for you.

There's no reason to let these men off the hook. The world should know what crimes they are alleged to have committed, if it can be shown. But what justice is served, no matter how terrible the crime, by trying 90-year old men for crimes 70 years past, except an abstract sense that "justice must be done"? And if that's not sufficient, then ask yourself this: there is no place they can be safely kept in prison, so they must be kept in a hospital. Is that justice, given the nature of their crime? There is no country willing in some cases to try them, so they must be tried in nations unrelated to their crime. Is that justice for the victims? IS this about justice, or is it only vengeance?
2013-07-28 12:45:35 AM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: hubiestubert: For the folks who think that these are just poor old men...watch who comes out for their funerals...

In fairness, this goes for the monsters that my mother's people put in charge of things too. Genocide doesn't have a statute of limitations. It's not about revenge, it's about holding them responsible, and not making them creatures of pity. It's about making them face what they've done. Plain and simple. It won't reach some, but as a society and a circle of societies, how we face these horrors, drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Never again" is important. As important today as it was then. Ethnic cleansing is still an issue. It is still going on. And not just in Africa, not just in out of the way nations, but in Europe and the whole situation in Georgia, just recently, was based on folks who figured that if they just exterminated their neighbors, everything would be fine. Mind you, the Ossetians called on the Bolsheviks to help them NOT be exterminated way back, and again, after Georgia split, folks figured that it was still a good option.

Tell yourselves, O ye defenders of the poor downtrodden monsters, that it's been too long. Then look into the faces of those who survived. Look into the faces of their children, and their children's children, who would never have been if these pieces of kuso had their way.

We can ignore it, because it's more convenient. But sometimes, it's a matter of standing up and saying, "No. No more."

If you think busting a 90+ year old for ANY crime has some deterrant factor, you are sorely mistaken.

You say it is about holding people responsible and not revenge, but what other purpose does punishment here serve? I still see nothing but revenge.


Then you haven't ever had to deal with skinheads or other of their ilk then. I've got some lovely scars from a skin and a knife who thought he was doing his "duty." This is not just about the men who committed atrocity, it's about delivering a message to those who hold them as heroes.

These men are heroes to these folks. The Holocaust in their eyes was "a good start." It still is. The Ultranationalists in Japan have a similar mindset, and in my mother's land, it's JUST as disturbing, and more so, that the government in Japan glosses over the atrocities committed. At least Germany tries to come to grips with their history--even though, in all my time in Germany, I never met a single German who admitted that anyone in their family was a part of the regime, or even had family who fought. This is not just about justice for the families, to see the men and women who committed atrocities brought to court, and given their day in court. That is the difference. These monsters, who consigned so many to die in camps, to be killed in the streets, to be buried en mass, see their day in court. Because we are societies governed by law. This about serving the law. That justice. Not simply dragged out into the street and shot, not quietly assassinated, but to see them face the law, to see the faces of their accusers, and realize that they have failed.
2013-07-28 12:39:20 AM
1 votes:
If your hobby is chasing mass murderers, go to Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Congo, Kosovo, China or Cambodia.
2013-07-28 12:35:40 AM
1 votes:

Dumski: True story. I guy I knew who's father was a post war German immigrant said that a group of them met regularly in a moderate sized Canadian city. Fairly large German community in said city.
The father went to one social gathering where an elderly woman was treated with great respect and honor. The woman was the wife of a high ranking Nazi officer in Hitlers inner circle.
The gossip was that it was either Himmler, Goering or Goebbels wife.

/just passing on what I was told by a fairly reliable source.
// also, a neighbour of mine in the same city and time period was a U-boat commander. He was proud of his war record. I did not judge him for being honest.
/// a teacher I had in the early 70's was a member of the Chech underground, dispatched several nazis with his knife. We only found this out by trying to distract him from teaching us geography
/// the more you know


Goebbels' wife died with Goebbels at the bunker. They didn't have sufficient fuel to burn them beyond recognition and were easily identified.
2013-07-28 12:28:50 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.


Who said they wanted "justice"?

/Haters gonna' hate
//More hate for the Hate God
/// Insatiable


Glad to see you in another Israel thread.

Oh, wait...
2013-07-28 12:22:21 AM
1 votes:
For the folks who think that these are just poor old men...watch who comes out for their funerals...

In fairness, this goes for the monsters that my mother's people put in charge of things too. Genocide doesn't have a statute of limitations. It's not about revenge, it's about holding them responsible, and not making them creatures of pity. It's about making them face what they've done. Plain and simple. It won't reach some, but as a society and a circle of societies, how we face these horrors, drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Never again" is important. As important today as it was then. Ethnic cleansing is still an issue. It is still going on. And not just in Africa, not just in out of the way nations, but in Europe and the whole situation in Georgia, just recently, was based on folks who figured that if they just exterminated their neighbors, everything would be fine. Mind you, the Ossetians called on the Bolsheviks to help them NOT be exterminated way back, and again, after Georgia split, folks figured that it was still a good option.

Tell yourselves, O ye defenders of the poor downtrodden monsters, that it's been too long. Then look into the faces of those who survived. Look into the faces of their children, and their children's children, who would never have been if these pieces of kuso had their way.

We can ignore it, because it's more convenient. But sometimes, it's a matter of standing up and saying, "No. No more."
2013-07-28 12:12:58 AM
1 votes:
puffy999: So when does the world start punishing, you know, American war criminals?

We won, we can't be war criminals.
2013-07-27 11:54:04 PM
1 votes:
What a Nazi may look like:
upload.wikimedia.org
2013-07-27 11:23:42 PM
1 votes:
You can spend tons of money going after them and putting the last few in prison, but most of them won't know what's going on.  By the time a trial is over, if they make it through, they'll be completely gaga.  A 16 old kid who got pressed into the German army in 1944 would be 85 today.  Anybody who had any actual authority is going to be in their mid-90s at the youngest.
2013-07-27 11:22:08 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: Lionel Mandrake: Smackledorfer: Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?

I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.

What's the statute of imitations on genocide?

Is it "justice" if served within X years, but "vengeance" if it's X+1 years?

Fwiw, picking someone who committed a crime and ignoring it after the fact as circumstances change is not the same as requesting a statute of limitations.


to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to

I don't see why I cannot be against pointless vengeance without being buried under strawmen.

I hate to break it to you, princess, but you are not the universal arbiter of what constitutes "pointless."

You're free to forgive and forget if you wish.  I don't blame people for seeking justice however long it takes.  We're talking active, willful participation in genocide, here.  These guys aren't just your average Hans drafted into the Wehrmacht and sent to the front lines.
2013-07-27 10:55:35 PM
1 votes:

baufan2005: Sorry, they may have committed unspeakable evil at one point but I just dont see the point in putting men in their 90's in prison.


TFA mentions one was convicted but did not serve the sentence due to age.

Yes, some Nazis are still alive, though mainly just the lowest soldiers who were barely adults at the time, but if they're too old to be punished according to civilized standards then there's only so much justice that can be done.

It's also questionable if the example being set by war crimes trials is actually preventing war crimes. War crimes don't get prosecuted unless the government sponsoring them is overthrown.
2013-07-27 10:54:21 PM
1 votes:
I can see why the Simon Wiesenthal Center  has it in for this Danish SS guy Soren Kam.

Kam been basically thumbing his nose at them for years. The Danish courts want him tried for murder, the German courts have looked at the evidence and said at best, it's manslaughter, the statute of limitations on manslaughter have expired, the guy is now a German citizen, so no extradition for you!
2013-07-27 10:51:44 PM
1 votes:

Shenanigans!: Bedstead Polisher: There's an old woman who lives down the street who goes for daily walks and looks EXACTLY like that old woman on greeting cards.
Is she a Nazi?

Also, I wonder if you all share my conflict. On the one hand these people did horrible things 70 years ago, on the other hand they're all old frail people who society says we should respect and show mercy. Like, as a 20 year old who slaughtered a village you'd have no problem pushing them down, but as a 90 year old who's fallen, you'd pick them up. Like, the brain does not connect the two.

I think it's rather pointless, but for slightly different reasons. These old farts have already lived the best years of their lives freely - what justice is there in locking them up now, when they hardly have any time left anyway? It's too late for true justice. I have to think if any of them died now, they'd feel they lived a full life anyway, something their victims didn't get to enjoy.


Yeah putting a 90 year old in a prison hospital unit instead of a regular hospital the rest of thier life isn't gonna do shiat for justice for anyone. Maybe a good hanging would be some justice.
2013-07-27 10:48:19 PM
1 votes:

Bedstead Polisher: There's an old woman who lives down the street who goes for daily walks and looks EXACTLY like that old woman on greeting cards.
Is she a Nazi?

Also, I wonder if you all share my conflict. On the one hand these people did horrible things 70 years ago, on the other hand they're all old frail people who society says we should respect and show mercy. Like, as a 20 year old who slaughtered a village you'd have no problem pushing them down, but as a 90 year old who's fallen, you'd pick them up. Like, the brain does not connect the two.


I think it's rather pointless, but for slightly different reasons. These old farts have already lived the best years of their lives freely - what justice is there in locking them up now, when they hardly have any time left anyway? It's too late for true justice. I have to think if any of them died now, they'd feel they lived a full life anyway, something their victims didn't get to enjoy.
2013-07-27 10:41:32 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


I am with you on this.

Nothing is served by continuuing the hunt at this point. Vengeance isn't justice.
2013-07-27 10:17:39 PM
1 votes:
If they wanna impress me find Heinrich Müller, highest ranking Nazi whose wherabouts is unknown.
2013-07-27 10:13:42 PM
1 votes:
Wow, I bet these fugitives did Nazi that coming
2013-07-27 08:36:04 PM
1 votes:
Perhaps the old man's smile is out of place?
2013-07-27 08:02:15 PM
1 votes:
500memes.com
2013-07-27 07:24:03 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So... what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center want to do?  Jail them for the year they have left, on the taxpayer dime, to get vengeance?


The best part is that the reward money requires arrest, conviction, and "years long" time spent in jail. How many will last even through a trial at this point?
2013-07-27 07:09:15 PM
1 votes:
Others identified in The Sun are Gerhard Sommer, an SS man who is now aged 92, who helped massacre 560 people in an Italian village.

????!!

What about....
www.japanfocus.org
 
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