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(BBC)   Archbishop Desmond Tutu would rather go to hell than to a homophobic heaven   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 202
    More: Hero, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, god, lesbian people, Nobel Peace, Navanethem Pillay, punishable by death, apartheid  
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8038 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2013 at 5:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



202 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-26 11:47:30 PM
Praise be upon him, a decent human being above most others.
 
2013-07-26 11:52:29 PM
But will he still eat da poo poo?
 
2013-07-27 12:18:00 AM
I don't think he has anything to worry about
 
2013-07-27 12:25:24 AM
news.bbcimg.co.uk
Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).
 
2013-07-27 12:34:08 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-07-27 12:38:03 AM

Paris1127: [news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x495]
Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).


That is so weird. Do they think they're in the Middle East?

And woza Tutu!!!!!! What a truly great man!
 
2013-07-27 12:43:54 AM

ginandbacon: That is so weird. Do they think they're in the Middle East?


I have no idea, but I'd think most of those countries' populations are on the Mediterranean Sea, and separated by the rest of the continent by the world's biggest desert, so they probably are more inclined to be associated with those cultures, not the African continent per se. But then hell I've never set foot over there, what do I know.
 
2013-07-27 12:46:20 AM
They could always claim "the graph shows 'Sub-Saharan Africa'"... On the other hand, the map's a bit out of date, if the lack of South Sudan is any indication.
 
2013-07-27 12:52:41 AM

Godscrack: But will he still eat da poo poo?


this is what we really want to know.

eat da poo poo.
 
2013-07-27 01:03:38 AM

Confabulat: ginandbacon: That is so weird. Do they think they're in the Middle East?

I have no idea, but I'd think most of those countries' populations are on the Mediterranean Sea, and separated by the rest of the continent by the world's biggest desert, so they probably are more inclined to be associated with those cultures, not the African continent per se. But then hell I've never set foot over there, what do I know.


I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."
 
2013-07-27 01:10:18 AM

ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."


I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.
 
2013-07-27 01:25:43 AM

Confabulat: ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.


Oh it is SO big! It kind of boggles the mind.
 
2013-07-27 01:28:55 AM

ginandbacon: Oh it is SO big! It kind of boggles the mind.


I know! You might think it's a long walk down to the chemist, but that's peanuts to Africa.
 
2013-07-27 01:33:40 AM

Confabulat: ginandbacon: Oh it is SO big! It kind of boggles the mind.

I know! You might think it's a long walk down to the chemist, but that's peanuts to Africa.


Hon, I think it's a long walk to the kitchen for more ice.
 
2013-07-27 01:37:41 AM
"I am as passionate about this campaign as I ever was about apartheid. For me, it is at the same level," he added.

Wow.  Dez just jumped up in my estimation by a magnitude of about 20.

He's still considered to be the supreme moral authority by many people in Africa.  On a continent where there are laws being proposed to make homosexuality punishable by death, this i HYOOGE.
 
2013-07-27 01:48:49 AM
I'm always disappointed when African religious leaders don't look like this.
This is nice and all, but it seems odd that it's getting press now.  I mean, it's been in their constitution for years, and they're legally doing great with LGBT stuff even by Euro standards.  I hope witchdoctors aren't killing gay albinos for their fashion sense.
 
2013-07-27 02:04:28 AM
Good for him.
 
2013-07-27 02:26:18 AM

Confabulat: ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.


infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com

Big doesn't begin to really to do the scale justice. The Sahara alone is nearly the size of the entire US. 3.3 million square miles versus the US' 3.79 million. Yeah, it makes the South West's desert look like a blip.

Good on the Archbishop.
 
2013-07-27 02:57:45 AM
Principled stand is principled. Nice to see the Hero tag being used appropriately rather than with irony.

Nice to see a moral authority of his stature speaking out like that.

Gives one hope does that.

That noted, the "raped a lesbian to death with a toilet brush thing" part made me more than a little stabby.
 
2013-07-27 03:22:26 AM
Wait a minute.  Are you saying my geography is dated?  I paid close attention.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x88Z5txBc7w
 
2013-07-27 03:29:22 AM
Also, good people are good.  Thank you, Mr. Tutu.
 
2013-07-27 03:31:11 AM
For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.
 
2013-07-27 03:46:52 AM

staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.


Yeah, it kind of is.
 
2013-07-27 03:48:46 AM
 
2013-07-27 03:51:27 AM
I honestly had no idea he was still alive.
 
2013-07-27 05:44:54 AM

MorrisBird: staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.

Yeah, it kind of is.




CSB time. One of my coworkers was a white guy raised in Kenya. He would tell people he was from Africa and people would tell he wasn't because he was white.
 
2013-07-27 06:09:15 AM
cdn.stripersonline.com
 
2013-07-27 06:10:55 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: MorrisBird: staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.

Yeah, it kind of is.



CSB time. One of my coworkers was a white guy raised in Kenya. He would tell people he was from Africa and people would tell he wasn't because he was white.


You can't just ask people why they're white.
 
2013-07-27 06:19:46 AM
So he doesn't believe in the God that's in the bible, then?
 
2013-07-27 06:20:14 AM
I've read Dante and I fail to understand the downside of hell. I've also come to devalue pain as never being any worse than a sign of over doing something, and if you no longer have a body to worry about then there's no worries about any amount of pain involved. I think I got that from Heinlein's Job. Or maybe Hellraiser.

/Hmm, is there an appropriately packaged box set of Hellraiser movies?
 
2013-07-27 06:20:52 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: MorrisBird: staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.

Yeah, it kind of is.

CSB time. One of my coworkers was a white guy raised in Kenya. He would tell people he was from Africa and people would tell he wasn't because he was white.


You messed up the joke, genius. It revolves around a misunderstanding of the term "African-American". The humor is derived from the two differing interpretations of the word being incompatible.

Of course, since I have you fav'd as "inflammatory racist", I'm guessing you were just trying to be clever and failed.
 
2013-07-27 06:23:54 AM

Copper Spork: So he doesn't believe in the God that's in the bible, then?


which one? The all loving one or the one who commands people to kill men women and children?
 
2013-07-27 06:26:54 AM
hambone sectionality is WRONG and theys RUININ MERICA
 
2013-07-27 06:30:29 AM
This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?
 
2013-07-27 06:32:12 AM

wildcardjack: I've read Dante and I fail to understand the downside of hell. I've also come to devalue pain as never being any worse than a sign of over doing something, and if you no longer have a body to worry about then there's no worries about any amount of pain involved.


The painful punishment is only symbolic of their sin - Dante's depiction of Hell is the prime example of Ironic Hell. The actual punishment of Hell is not what's happening to them in the various Circles; it's the total isolation from God. You are in Hell because God does not give a shiat about you. There's no redemption, no forgiveness and no way out once you're in there. All the souls in Hell feel this isolation from the Divine, even those that don't understand it, and that is the true source of their pain; the punishments are symbolic but ultimately incidental to the actual torment of Hell.
 
2013-07-27 06:37:31 AM
Typical christian, twisting dogma to fit modern views. fark off, buddy.
 
2013-07-27 06:37:50 AM
You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.
 
2013-07-27 06:38:30 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.


How?
 
2013-07-27 06:40:23 AM

Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?


Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80
 
2013-07-27 06:40:27 AM

SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?


Are you really that simple?
 
2013-07-27 06:41:32 AM
Figures a guy wearing a Tutu would be okay with teh ghey....
 
2013-07-27 06:41:50 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80


This is known as the "Orson Scott Card" argument. It's pretty childish. They like to hide behind dictionary words so they can pretend they aren't bigots.
 
2013-07-27 06:44:33 AM
And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?
 
2013-07-27 06:46:13 AM
I for one welcome our new butt-f*cking Jesus
 
2013-07-27 06:49:12 AM

Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

This is known as the "Orson Scott Card" argument. It's pretty childish. They like to hide behind dictionary words so they can pretend they aren't bigots.


Ah, so using the proper meaning of words is now "childish"?  Seriously, how weak is your argument when you resort to that kind of claim?  From webster, "homophobia  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against."  That's not even close to "disapproval of".  Can you honestly say you have an "irrational fear" of everything you "disapprove of"?  Stop being stupid.
 
2013-07-27 06:49:31 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Look up the definition of homophobic. It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80


From Wikipedia:
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.

From what I understand, "disapprove of homosexuality" just sounds like a more polite synonym than an actual distinction. So on what grounds can you "disapprove of homosexuality" without being homophobic?
 
2013-07-27 06:53:25 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.


I disapprove of homosexuality in the sense that I would never engage in homosexual acts...because I'm not gay. Disapproving of other people doing it? Yeah, you're a bigot and a homophobe
 
2013-07-27 06:55:41 AM

Shedim: From what I understand, "disapprove of homosexuality" just sounds like a more polite synonym than an actual distinction. So on what grounds can you "disapprove of homosexuality" without being homophobic?


Can you not think of a single thing that you "disapprove of" that you don't also feel "antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred"for?  I don't believe you.
 
2013-07-27 06:57:16 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Can you not think of a single thing that you "disapprove of" that you don't also feel "antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred"for?


Anal sex.
 
2013-07-27 06:59:19 AM

jchuffyman: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

I disapprove of homosexuality in the sense that I would never engage in homosexual acts...because I'm not gay. Disapproving of other people doing it? Yeah, you're a bigot and a homophobe


I disapprove of people getting face tattoos, but I don't hate them if they do, nor do I fear them.  But keep up that willful ignorance if it makes you feel like a better social justice warrior of the internet!
 
2013-07-27 07:00:34 AM

NewportBarGuy: Praise be upon him, a decent human being above most others.


You know, i've had a lot of respect for this guy for years now, and this just reinforced it for me. Awesome tutu.
 
2013-07-27 07:00:49 AM

ybishop: [cdn.stripersonline.com image 500x396]


Odd picture for the thread considering they have opposing views on teh gheys.
 
2013-07-27 07:06:25 AM
And not to threadjack any more than I already have, but it's nice to see a prominent religious leader come out (as it were) in support of homosexuality. It makes a pleasant change from the norm, and I hope more Africans start listening to him.
 
2013-07-27 07:16:29 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: I disapprove of people getting face tattoos


why? Just like someone being homosexual, it's non of your business.
 
2013-07-27 07:17:56 AM
I can't tell you how big of a deal this is. In the United Methodist church, at the national level we are pushing to move to support gay marriage, however we get a lot of push back at the international level from the African and Asian delegations. To have a major religious figure come out of Africa and say something like this, it's a frickin massive deal and I am damned excited!
 
2013-07-27 07:20:03 AM
Me too
 
2013-07-27 07:25:26 AM
Old Man Winter

lev·i·ty/ˈlevətē/ Noun
Humor or frivolity, esp. the treatment of a serious matter with humor or in a manner lacking due respect.
 
2013-07-27 07:26:30 AM
I'd rather go to hell than serve the whims of a god who acts like an omnipotent five-year-old child.

/he wants you to suffer for not believing in him.
//but he loves you!
 
2013-07-27 07:30:43 AM
Wonderful. Now if he could do something about the rampant rape and killing of Somali immigrants ( In 2009, 28 percent of men in South Africa admitted to committing rape) and the place becoming a possible powder keg once Mandela dies, that would be even nicer.
 
2013-07-27 07:37:46 AM

log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: I disapprove of people getting face tattoos

why? Just like someone being homosexual, it's non of your business.


Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?  I'm sure you have plenty of opinions on things that don't affect you, but let me guess, because this is a hot button issue these days, and you want to be PC.. this is "different".
 
2013-07-27 07:38:24 AM

Copper Spork: So he doesn't believe in the God that's in the bible, then?


Which one?
 
2013-07-27 07:47:32 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?


I asked why you would care since it is none of your business. are you claiming it is your business?

BraveNewCheneyWorld: but let me guess, because this is a hot button issue these days, and you want to be PC.. this is "different".


or it could be that I don't give a shiat if people get face tattoos or that gay people have sex with each other.
 
2013-07-27 07:52:58 AM

staplermofo: This is nice and all, but it seems odd that it's getting press now. I mean, it's been in their constitution for years, and they're legally doing great with LGBT stuff even by Euro standards.


It is not odd in the least. Did you think the UN Human Rights people were actually going to single out the countries where the really nasty shiat is happening?

South Africa is Provincetown compared to Saudi Arabia, to name one of dozens. Even the map in TFA from Amnesty doesn't bother trying to evaluate the state of rights for gays in northern Africa.

And Uganda...where curb-stomp the gays is close to official state policy...is on the UN Human Rights Council along with charming gay-friendly destinations like Pakistan, Libya, Mauritania, and Kazakhstan.
 
2013-07-27 07:57:16 AM

Shedim: wildcardjack: I've read Dante and I fail to understand the downside of hell. I've also come to devalue pain as never being any worse than a sign of over doing something, and if you no longer have a body to worry about then there's no worries about any amount of pain involved.

The painful punishment is only symbolic of their sin - Dante's depiction of Hell is the prime example of Ironic Hell. The actual punishment of Hell is not what's happening to them in the various Circles; it's the total isolation from God. You are in Hell because God does not give a shiat about you. There's no redemption, no forgiveness and no way out once you're in there. All the souls in Hell feel this isolation from the Divine, even those that don't understand it, and that is the true source of their pain; the punishments are symbolic but ultimately incidental to the actual torment of Hell.


tl;dr
 
2013-07-27 08:00:01 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: I disapprove of people getting face tattoos

why? Just like someone being homosexual, it's non of your business.

Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?  I'm sure you have plenty of opinions on things that don't affect you, but let me guess, because this is a hot button issue these days, and you want to be PC.. this is "different".


'Hey, look at me! I fly in the face of convention and don't show empathy OR compassion even though they're basic human emotions!'

/Trollers gunna troll.
 
2013-07-27 08:05:14 AM
Easier to say when neither exists.
 
2013-07-27 08:18:32 AM

Shedim: wildcardjack: I've read Dante and I fail to understand the downside of hell. I've also come to devalue pain as never being any worse than a sign of over doing something, and if you no longer have a body to worry about then there's no worries about any amount of pain involved.

The painful punishment is only symbolic of their sin - Dante's depiction of Hell is the prime example of Ironic Hell. The actual punishment of Hell is not what's happening to them in the various Circles; it's the total isolation from God. You are in Hell because God does not give a shiat about you. There's no redemption, no forgiveness and no way out once you're in there. All the souls in Hell feel this isolation from the Divine, even those that don't understand it, and that is the true source of their pain; the punishments are symbolic but ultimately incidental to the actual torment of Hell.


Succinct and to the point, but  that's assuming one has a delusional feeling of connection to Harry Potter.
 
2013-07-27 08:21:54 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: MorrisBird: staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.

Yeah, it kind of is.

CSB time. One of my coworkers was a white guy raised in Kenya. He would tell people he was from Africa and people would tell he wasn't because he was white.


i am white, born and raised in Namibia and South Africa. I think the clueless people would be amazed to see how many white people actually live in Africa. My ancestors are French Hugenots. But i speak Afrikaans, which is close to Dutch.

/ we are bit mongrelish...
 
2013-07-27 08:26:35 AM

wildcardjack: Succinct and to the point, but that's assuming one has a delusional feeling of connection to Harry Potter.


Thanks. I believe it would have had a lot more of an effect in the 14th century (when Dante wrote it) compared to now. It's main effect nowadays is being one of the two sources people go to for depictions of Hell (Milton being the other one).

On a vaguely related note, would any Catholics here know if the Catholic Church still considers suicide a mortal sin (i.e. go to Hell, go directly to Hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200)?
 
2013-07-27 08:26:42 AM
S. A might have the gay rights thing on their constitution but the homophobic violence against them is still very bad.
I have so much respect for Tutu for speaking out against bigotry and homophobia.
 
2013-07-27 08:32:27 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: I disapprove of people getting face tattoos

why? Just like someone being homosexual, it's non of your business.

Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?  I'm sure you have plenty of opinions on things that don't affect you, but let me guess, because this is a hot button issue these days, and you want to be PC.. this is "different".


Hot button issue? PC? My god man, did you just beam here to Planet Earth? I'm 43 years old and this was a huge topic since I've been old enough to be aware of it. Have you lived your life in such a sheltered little world that homophobia crossed your mind until you read it on the news?

WOW. I think your opinions on anything need to be taken with a serious grain of salt. I dunno, maybe go make some friends or something.
 
2013-07-27 08:34:25 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80


'HomoPHOBIC', darlin', implies that you fear homosexuality, either your own or others'. It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.  Now go wipe your chin and and rephrase.
 
2013-07-27 08:34:46 AM
He's a conformist, not a hero.
 
2013-07-27 08:35:04 AM
And it's good to see Archbishop Tutu practices what Jesus preached. What a nicer world it would be if American Christians could do the same.

But they're too busy yelling at everyone for being PC (hehe how old is that term now anyway? I think the American Christians were screaming that in Reagan's first term).
 
2013-07-27 08:38:48 AM

gottagopee: It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.


Dictionary definitions usually come from societal use, not the other way around. Language is always changing. The homophobes like to claim the word still means what it did in psychology texts in 1950, but it's long gone past that, and Merriam-Webster backs that up.

They just don't like being called cowards, cause then maybe the other boys will think they are queer.
 
2013-07-27 08:48:32 AM

Confabulat: gottagopee: It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.

Dictionary definitions usually come from societal use, not the other way around. Language is always changing. The homophobes like to claim the word still means what it did in psychology texts in 1950, but it's long gone past that, and Merriam-Webster backs that up.

They just don't like being called cowards, cause then maybe the other boys will think they are queer.


On a somewhat related note, what does the word 'racist' actually mean these days (at least on fark)? ...because it gets tossed around like a completely generic insult with little regard for the dictionary-definition of the term.
 
2013-07-27 08:48:57 AM
Tutu seems to believe that the gays are going to hell. Odd theology. Hurry up Desmond Tutu. Send us a report upon arrival. I know the fun girls are there, so I'm already packed. See ya there, weirdo.
 
2013-07-27 08:49:26 AM
Tolerance does not equal Acceptance

It is more than a bit disingenuous to claim moral superiority because you accept or approve of something.

"Oh yeah, I think the things that I like are just nifty, and that makes me a good person", as it were.

The real moral winner is the fellow who does not approve, who does not accept, yet still tolerates the things that he does not approve or accept.

But the majority of the posters here would seem to demand that nothing short of full acceptance and approval of homosexuality will do. The amusing thing is that these posters don't view themselves as bigots -- they consider themselves quite open-minded.
 
2013-07-27 08:49:51 AM
I don't what kind of Hell his denomination believes in, but if it anything like what fundamentalist Southern Baptists believe in the U.S. then he would prefer homophobic heaven.  Indeed he would prefer racist heaven.  He would prefer Nazi heaven.
Pain, desire, despair, hopeless beyond anything any human has ever suffered without any let up lasting forever is what Hell is supposed to be.  It is not a mere a bad prison with no chance of parole.

Of course any God that set up such a system would be utterly unjust and immoral, but that is another issue.
 
2013-07-27 08:54:19 AM

jshine: On a somewhat related note, what does the word 'racist' actually mean these days (at least on fark)?


You got me. Something about a little black kid but I can't read lips.
 
2013-07-27 09:04:26 AM
dnra:
anybody Catholic that doesn't hate *the gays* is ok with me: transforming faith has to come from groundswell.  (not astroturf)
besides, i saw the Archbishop on PBS forever ago and he was fascinating.
2cents!
 
2013-07-27 09:07:09 AM
I'd rather go to Kiddie Fiddler's Green than Furry Valhalla, but you don't see anyone nominating me for sainthood.
 
2013-07-27 09:12:00 AM

gottagopee: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

'HomoPHOBIC', darlin', implies that you fear homosexuality, either your own or others'. It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.  Now go wipe your chin and and rephrase.


Disapproval isn't a phobia.  But thanks for proving that the people on your side don't know what the hell they're talking about, even though you failed to follow the conversation and thought I was the one in need of correction.

Confabulat: gottagopee: It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.

Dictionary definitions usually come from societal use, not the other way around. Language is always changing. The homophobes like to claim the word still means what it did in psychology texts in 1950, but it's long gone past that, and Merriam-Webster backs that up.

They just don't like being called cowards, cause then maybe the other boys will think they are queer.


The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.
 
2013-07-27 09:13:50 AM
it is more than the fear of homosexuals.  it's the fear of gay people in general
 
2013-07-27 09:13:59 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: jchuffyman: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

I disapprove of homosexuality in the sense that I would never engage in homosexual acts...because I'm not gay. Disapproving of other people doing it? Yeah, you're a bigot and a homophobe

I disapprove of people getting face tattoos, but I don't hate them if they do, nor do I fear them.  But keep up that willful ignorance if it makes you feel like a better social justice warrior of the internet!



Do you "disapprove" of people being black?  Just curious.
 
2013-07-27 09:20:02 AM

Natsumi: Mid_mo_mad_man: MorrisBird: staplermofo: For all its size, Africa still only has a billion people with a GDP of 2 trillion USD, so it's behind India and China in both.  India and China were both made of a bunch of other countries and brutally colonized.  And almost all of Africa is in the African Union, so, you know, it's not super unreasonable to lump them all in one.

Yeah, it kind of is.

CSB time. One of my coworkers was a white guy raised in Kenya. He would tell people he was from Africa and people would tell he wasn't because he was white.

i am white, born and raised in Namibia and South Africa. I think the clueless people would be amazed to see how many white people actually live in Africa. My ancestors are French Hugenots. But i speak Afrikaans, which is close to Dutch.

/ we are bit mongrelish...




He was from a coffee farm in the Kenyan highlands.
 
2013-07-27 09:22:02 AM

log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?

I asked why you would care since it is none of your business. are you claiming it is your business?


By your logic I am completely validated in my non-interest in the fact that last month a lesbian was found dead, having been sexually assaulted with a toilet brush. It is always good to know that people I do not see, hear or smell and thus do not affect me in any way do not matter. Thanks.
 
2013-07-27 09:47:12 AM
 
2013-07-27 09:47:20 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.


I haven't lost anything, dude. However, you've been a pretty interesting case subject on the backwards confused dimwits on the wrong side of history who never heard of gay rights until the read about it online. That's you, right? Never had any close gay friends in your life? Never seen the struggles they've been going through? Cause I'm straight, but I've grown up around gay people my whole life and for me, this is a very personal subject.

You really never had any gay friends, huh? Was that because they were too scared to tell you, or because you were busy beating them up?

You want to fight over the vague meanings of various words, when the fact is, you're still an really shocking example of American ignorance in 2013. I think I'll let you obsess over your little wordplay if it comforts you.
 
2013-07-27 10:00:32 AM
There's no buttsex in Heaven, so why would the gays be interested in it?

(Actually, there's no sex of any kind, so I could make the same argument for the rest of us.  Still, it is what it is.)
 
2013-07-27 10:01:12 AM
I'd still rather break bread with Dawkins than Desmond Tutu, to be honest.
 
2013-07-27 10:03:30 AM

hubiestubert: [infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com image 550x614]


They should never have made a sequel to China.
 
2013-07-27 10:05:21 AM

DerAppie: log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?

I asked why you would care since it is none of your business. are you claiming it is your business?

By your logic I am completely validated in my non-interest in the fact that last month a lesbian was found dead, having been sexually assaulted with a toilet brush. It is always good to know that people I do not see, hear or smell and thus do not affect me in any way do not matter. Thanks.


so a gay couple kissing is just like a person being sexually assaulted. got it.
 
2013-07-27 10:18:45 AM

Paris1127: [news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x495]
Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).


www.dartmouth.edu

There's nothing especially weird about it.  They're in Africa geographically.  But Egypt, at the very least, is culturally and politically part of the Middle East.  It's not that different from México being part of North America geographically yet part of Latin America in all other regards.  Or the way Turkey both is and is not part of Europe.  Or Australia and New Zealand being "Western" nations.

 The mapping of sociopolitical/cultural regions to geographic ones just isn't that neat.
 
2013-07-27 10:21:37 AM

Confabulat: ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government.


You could even say Africa was a big continent, if you're a geographer.
 
2013-07-27 10:27:11 AM
Shedim:
On a vaguely related note, would any Catholics here know if the Catholic Church still considers suicide a mortal sin (i.e. go to Hell, go directly to Hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200)?

I don't think they still believe you are sent directly to hell for that.  My understanding is that they believe you must have some sort of underlying mental illness going on to be considering suicide and are therefore not in total control of your own actions.  At least, this is what I was told by a priest several years ago and I know of one Catholic who committed suicide and there were no problems getting a priest to officiate at the funeral or with burial arrangements.

On topic, good to see Tutu speaking out about this.  I have always had respect for the man, but this has definitely increased it.
 
2013-07-27 10:39:45 AM
BraveNewCheneyWorld:
The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then chances are pretty good that it's a duck. The only person you're fooling with this kind of sophistry is yourself.
 
2013-07-27 10:40:45 AM

Kiwimann: BraveNewCheneyWorld: jchuffyman: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

I disapprove of homosexuality in the sense that I would never engage in homosexual acts...because I'm not gay. Disapproving of other people doing it? Yeah, you're a bigot and a homophobe

I disapprove of people getting face tattoos, but I don't hate them if they do, nor do I fear them.  But keep up that willful ignorance if it makes you feel like a better social justice warrior of the internet!


Do you "disapprove" of people being black?  Just curious.


I imagine, Kiwimann, that BraveNewCheneyWorld does disapprove of idiots like you.  It never ceases to amaze me how (1) people equate behaviors with traits (perhaps you can be born homosexual, but we can all choose whether to act on our impulses, whatever they are) and (2) how so many people, even here, don't understand what a phobia is and how it differs from something they disagree with.  This goes to "hate" too.  I'm sorry, I also don't like it when people lie to me, but just because I disapprove of that doesn't mean I hate the person who lied to me.

I also find the double standard around this debate interesting.  No one can suggest that a homosexual is acting on choice, but anyone who does can be said to be "fearful", not simply "disapproving".  So, you can define us but we can't do the same to you?  Now I see what you really want approval for.  You want approval for your hypocrisy, idiocy, and intolerance for anyone who would disagree with you.  Great, thanks, nice to see that is cleared up.
 
2013-07-27 10:42:46 AM
One more thing; people always say "love is love".  So, when you say you love a family member, somehow, that isn't a different form of love?

Oh, that's right, another double standard.  Apparently love does differ, but only in the ways you say, right?
 
2013-07-27 10:44:27 AM

Ecaps: I'd still rather break bread with Dawkins than Desmond Tutu, to be honest.


because bigotry is OK when it's against Christians
 
2013-07-27 10:51:56 AM

06Wahoo: Great, thanks, nice to see that is cleared up.


I'm going to farky you as a bravenewcheneyworld alt
 
2013-07-27 10:54:43 AM

Kiwimann: BraveNewCheneyWorld: jchuffyman: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

I disapprove of homosexuality in the sense that I would never engage in homosexual acts...because I'm not gay. Disapproving of other people doing it? Yeah, you're a bigot and a homophobe

I disapprove of people getting face tattoos, but I don't hate them if they do, nor do I fear them.  But keep up that willful ignorance if it makes you feel like a better social justice warrior of the internet!


Do you "disapprove" of people being black?  Just curious.


Blackness isn't an activity, gay sex is.  Your comparison is stupid.

Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.

I haven't lost anything, dude.


The moment you decided to hinge your argument on the idea that your personal misunderstanding of the word "phobia" trumps the rest of the world's understanding of the word, yeah, you lost.

 However, you've been a pretty interesting case subject on the backwards confused dimwits on the wrong side of history who never heard of gay rights until the read about it online. That's you, right? Never had any close gay friends in your life? Never seen the struggles they've been going through? Cause I'm straight, but I've grown up around gay people my whole life and for me, this is a very personal subject.

You really never had any gay friends, huh? Was that because they were too scared to tell you, or because you were busy beating them up?


I've known several gay people in my life.  I got along with a few and hung out with them on occasion.  In fact, I remember one of them specifically commenting one time that he thought the idea of sex with a woman was disgusting, which didn't bother me in the slightest (in fact I found it fairly amusing), and he understood that I had the same opinion about his activities.   It's called being an adult.  We can find each other's preferences repellent, and still hang out for drinks without punching each other, as you seem to believe is necessary.  Honestly, I feel sorry for you and your obvious lack of emotional development.  "Disapproval" only seems to be linked to "fear" and "hatred" because you think like a child.

You want to fight over the vague meanings of various words, when the fact is, you're still an really shocking example of American ignorance in 2013. I think I'll let you obsess over your little wordplay if it comforts you.

Yeah, keep farking that chicken.  How do you expect to effectively communicate if you decide words mean something other than what everyone else knows they mean?
 
2013-07-27 10:58:23 AM

Voiceofreason01: 06Wahoo: Great, thanks, nice to see that is cleared up.

I'm going to farky you as a bravenewcheneyworld alt


I give permission to the mods to confirm or deny this for you.  Let us know how it goes.

Oh, and don't forget to stock up on tinfoil.  Because if 2 people in a thread disagree with you, it's obviously a conspiracy.
 
2013-07-27 11:04:00 AM
BraveNewCheneyWorld:  Because if 2 people in a thread disagree with you....

"I'm not a bigot because I don't "hate" hate gay people" is not something I'd classify as a rational argument
 
2013-07-27 11:05:00 AM

Voiceofreason01: Ecaps: I'd still rather break bread with Dawkins than Desmond Tutu, to be honest.

because bigotry is OK when it's against Christians


sigh
 
2013-07-27 11:06:30 AM

Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?


Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms. Disagreeing with something is not.
 
2013-07-27 11:16:59 AM
"If two people can attack you by loving each other you're not a "real man," you're a Care Bear villain."

- Luke McKinney
 
2013-07-27 11:22:56 AM

taurusowner: Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms.


It also refers to irrational aversion.

Disagreeing with something is not.

What exactly does it mean to "disagree" with homosexuality? Is that like disagreeing with the color green? Or disagreeing with being left handed?

If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.
 
2013-07-27 11:23:34 AM

06Wahoo: No one can suggest that a homosexual is acting on choice,


The suggestion it is a choice is pretty well nothing but an attempt to dehumanize people. Also a gay virgin is as gay as one who sleeps with anyone that moves. All the talk about acting is completely pointless, a homosexual is a homosexual. Case closed.
 
2013-07-27 11:25:09 AM

SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?


Not tough at all. He's a human being who inherently has dignity, and he recognizes that all people regardless of sexual orientation and gender expression have dignity. Taking a principled stand like this deserves praise.
 
2013-07-27 11:28:14 AM

SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?


you're aware that Tutu is a raging liberal right?
 
2013-07-27 11:29:11 AM

letrole: Tolerance does not equal Acceptance

It is more than a bit disingenuous to claim moral superiority because you accept or approve of something.

"Oh yeah, I think the things that I like are just nifty, and that makes me a good person", as it were.

The real moral winner is the fellow who does not approve, who does not accept, yet still tolerates the things that he does not approve or accept.

But the majority of the posters here would seem to demand that nothing short of full acceptance and approval of homosexuality will do. The amusing thing is that these posters don't view themselves as bigots -- they consider themselves quite open-minded.


Trolling is learned behavior.
 
2013-07-27 11:33:52 AM

SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?


You're projecting. The need to prejudge others based on preexisting narratives is your defect, not ours.
 
2013-07-27 11:34:57 AM

Hickory-smoked: taurusowner: Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms.

It also refers to irrational aversion.

Disagreeing with something is not.

What exactly does it mean to "disagree" with homosexuality? Is that like disagreeing with the color green? Or disagreeing with being left handed?

If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.


There are a lot of people who are virulently anti-gay and like policies like Cuccinelli's attempt to ban homosexual sodomy but simultaneously say they love gay people. I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire. They have no response as of yet.
 
2013-07-27 11:43:21 AM

taurusowner: Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms. Disagreeing with something is not.


Homopathy seems more appropriate.
 
2013-07-27 11:46:17 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: gottagopee: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

'HomoPHOBIC', darlin', implies that you fear homosexuality, either your own or others'. It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.  Now go wipe your chin and and rephrase.

Disapproval isn't a phobia.  But thanks for proving that the people on your side don't know what the hell they're talking about, even though you failed to follow the conversation and thought I was the one in need of correction.

Confabulat: gottagopee: It should be pretty apparent to anyone with an IQ above 80 that common usage of word has impact at least as great as strict dictionary definition.

Dictionary definitions usually come from societal use, not the other way around. Language is always changing. The homophobes like to claim the word still means what it did in psychology texts in 1950, but it's long gone past that, and Merriam-Webster backs that up.

They just don't like being called cowards, cause then maybe the other boys will think they are queer.

The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.


Mirriam-Webster Thesaurus:
1a dislike so strong as to cause stomach upset or queasiness <I simply have this ingrained aversion to the sight of bloodshed>  Related Words  Disapproval.
2 a strong feeling of not liking or approving <couldn't overcome her aversion to her brother-in-law and pointedly avoided his company>
 
2013-07-27 11:55:24 AM
I like when it comes to words like phobia and theory, conservatives decide that words are allowed to have one strict definition and one definition only, ignoring common usage and any other recognized definition. Specifically with homophobia, it has very commonly meant any negative feeling or attitude towards homosexuals, despite the roots of the word. It reminds me of the rednecks that live near me who try to claim (falsely) that the n-word originally meant something other than a black person, so they were not being racist by calling black people that all the time.
 
2013-07-27 11:58:38 AM

log_jammin: DerAppie: log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us?

I asked why you would care since it is none of your business. are you claiming it is your business?

By your logic I am completely validated in my non-interest in the fact that last month a lesbian was found dead, having been sexually assaulted with a toilet brush. It is always good to know that people I do not see, hear or smell and thus do not affect me in any way do not matter. Thanks.

so a gay couple kissing is just like a person being sexually assaulted. got it.


No, things that don't affect me are things that don't affect me. And you know what? It doesn't affect you either, yet you still have an opinion on the matter (and probably felt at least some slight offence when reading my statement). Why are you making it your business? Or are we only allowed to make judgements on behaviour that are the same as your judgement?

Just accept the fact that humans judge the hell out of everyone and everything whether they are affected by it or not. Some things are extreme (like my intended to offend example about the assault) and something are minor (like thinking that someone with a face tattoo is an idiot). Saying that we only get to approve or disapprove of things that affect us is counter to how the human psyche works. At the end of the day all that matters is what people do, not what they think. So someone disapproves of homosexuals, as long as their isn't active discrimination going on it shouldn't matter.
 
2013-07-27 11:59:49 AM

Hickory-smoked: If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.


There are people who don't like to use heroin, but think it should be legal, and there are people who don't use heroin and think it should be illegal.  Neither one of those groups is necessarily being led by hatred or bigotry, and neither one is inherently an "asshole" because of the views they hold.  It's a shame that you can't see how your logic would (not) apply to many similar consensual activities.  How can you claim to be fighting for tolerance, when you are intolerant of those who do nothing more than disagree?
 
2013-07-27 12:02:56 PM
DerAppie: So someone disapproves of homosexuals, as long as their isn't active discrimination going on it shouldn't matter.

There are people around Southwest Virginia I've met who still think interracial marriage is a sin. Not just old farts, but people in their twenties. Now, they aren't actively discriminating against interracial couples or preventing them from marrying, but I still call them bigoted, racist assholes.
 
2013-07-27 12:05:32 PM
So, would anyone like to explain how folks you don't know, who aren't in your social circle, not even members of your church, or otherwise near you, save in the most nebulous sense in that they share air with you, loving one another, in any way, shape, or form, injures you? Affects you in any way, other than the knowledge that they exist? Do you likewise opposed fat folks who find someone? What about mixed race couples? Folks who might be of differing faiths who find one another appealing, but who don't belong to your own?

Please, do go on. Tell us how these awful people affect you. Please, do go on.

Personally, I don't care, because what folks do behind closed doors, in the comfort of their own homes, or even in a club I don't attend, isn't any of my damn business. The only time it becomes anyone else's business is when there is harm involved--as in abuse--or lack of consent. So long as folks are all consenting adults, even if it is something that I find distasteful, such as Furries--who I will admit creep ME the f*ck out--so long as everyone involved are consenting adults, it's none of my business. Plain and simple. I got this way because my Grandma raised me to not be a Nosey Nellie. Call it an affliction passed on, and I somehow survive in today's society, despite being apparently crippled by this familial tradition...

Don't like it? Don't eat it. But never mind what anyone else has on their plates. Worked when you were five, and it still works today.
 
2013-07-27 12:08:20 PM
The Italian Farker:
Mirriam-Webster Thesaurus:
1a dislike so strong as to cause stomach upset or queasiness <I simply have this ingrained aversion to the sight of bloodshed>  Related Words  Disapproval.
2 a strong feeling of not liking or approving <couldn't overcome her aversion to her brother-in-law and pointedly avoided his company>


^ Thinks synonyms, and the included example sentences of synonyms must all mean exactly the same thing.

I would have thought that the fact that you included 2 examples with differing meanings would have tipped you off to the fact that your post is ridiculous, and you would have reconsidered hitting "add comment", but I guess not.
 
2013-07-27 12:10:24 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.


Translates to:  I have irrational issues with gay people and sex, but I'm NOT A BIGOT DAMMIT!!
 
2013-07-27 12:12:48 PM
Why isn't there a meme of Desmond Tutu wearing a tutu?

/too lazy to make my own
 
2013-07-27 12:17:01 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hickory-smoked: If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

There are people who don't like to use heroin, but think it should be legal, and there are people who don't use heroin and think it should be illegal.  Neither one of those groups is necessarily being led by hatred or bigotry, and neither one is inherently an "asshole" because of the views they hold.  It's a shame that you can't see how your logic would (not) apply to many similar consensual activities.  How can you claim to be fighting for tolerance, when you are intolerant of those who do nothing more than disagree?


Do you think it should be legal for a gay couple to have consensual sexual relations? Do you think a gay couple should be able to legally marry each other? Do you think that for-profit corporations should be able to fire gay people because they don't want gay people to work for them?
 
2013-07-27 12:18:26 PM

hubiestubert: So, would anyone like to explain how folks you don't know, who aren't in your social circle, not even members of your church, or otherwise near you, save in the most nebulous sense in that they share air with you, loving one another, in any way, shape, or form, injures you?


How does my expression of an opinion injure you?

Graffito: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

Translates to:  I have irrational issues with gay people and sex, but I'm NOT A BIGOT DAMMIT!!


I see you have the current edition of the English to "Social Justice Warrior" dictionary.
 
2013-07-27 12:37:06 PM
why don't we just get rid of jails completely.  then there'd be no more violence.  a nice place like Dubai
 
2013-07-27 12:38:04 PM

hubiestubert: Confabulat: ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.

[infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com image 550x614]

Big doesn't begin to really to do the scale justice. The Sahara alone is nearly the size of the entire US. 3.3 million square miles versus the US' 3.79 million. Yeah, it makes the South West's desert look like a blip.

Good on the Archbishop.


WHOA. That map is amazing. Thank you for posting it.

Also, this thread got weird.
 
2013-07-27 12:46:29 PM

ginandbacon: Also, this thread got weird.


When you get down to folks playing the grammar card to defend their own bigotry, yeah, it's fair f*cked. And not in the bit of slap and tickle of the British public school fashion either...
 
2013-07-27 01:04:41 PM
I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.
 
2013-07-27 01:05:00 PM

hubiestubert: ginandbacon: Also, this thread got weird.

When you get down to folks playing the grammar card to defend their own bigotry, yeah, it's fair f*cked. And not in the bit of slap and tickle of the British public school fashion either...


Right? Holy twisted verbiage!
 
2013-07-27 01:12:37 PM

Shedim: wildcardjack: Succinct and to the point, but that's assuming one has a delusional feeling of connection to Harry Potter.

Thanks. I believe it would have had a lot more of an effect in the 14th century (when Dante wrote it) compared to now. It's main effect nowadays is being one of the two sources people go to for depictions of Hell (Milton being the other one).

On a vaguely related note, would any Catholics here know if the Catholic Church still considers suicide a mortal sin (i.e. go to Hell, go directly to Hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200)?


No. Due to the Advent of Psychology they now say that anyone with a mental disease pretty much gets a free pass. So if you kill yourself it doesn't count against you and gives you bonus points as you were suffering. So Down's syndrome, Autsim, mental retardation, or any other disease that makes a person unable to understand religion and Catholicism doesn't go to hell.
 
2013-07-27 01:14:31 PM

hubiestubert: ginandbacon: Also, this thread got weird.

When you get down to folks playing the grammar card to defend their own bigotry, yeah, it's fair f*cked. And not in the bit of slap and tickle of the British public school fashion either...


Me: I shower because I don't like to smell bad, and I disapprove of people who smell bad.
You: You're a bromidrosiphobe!
Me: No, I'm not afraid of smelling bad.  I think you should probably look up that word, you don't seem to know what it means.
You: YOU'RE PLAYING THE GRAMMAR CARD!
 
2013-07-27 01:20:31 PM

druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.


What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone?  Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care?  You're as useless as the people who post "lol".
 
2013-07-27 01:27:43 PM
I disapprove of homosexuality. I don't like it, I hope my children are straight.

But, I fully support gay marriage.

I defended fellow scouts who were gay and being bullied, twice coming to blows (lol) in their defense. I am currently working to possibly relocate my sons scout troop to a new location thanks to baptist churches views on gays in the scouts.

Two of my best friends growing up were (at best) bisexual.

Tell me I'm homophobic and I will tell you to go fark yourself.

//also disapproves of ketchup on hotdogs, rap, hipsters, and televangelists. I guess that literlly makes me hitler.
 
2013-07-27 01:35:48 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone?  Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care?  You're as useless as the people who post "lol".


Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?
 
2013-07-27 01:48:00 PM

Serious Black: BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone?  Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care?  You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?


I'm going to hazard that he won't really, because it gets in the way of folks interfering with the "great freedom" to be dicks to people.

And that's the problem. Like the fact that some folks aren't into the same things that you're into or not, it boils down to basic rights. The freedom of consenting adults to be consenting adults.

You don't want to marry folks in your own church, I have no problem with that. You want to prevent other churches from doing so, then there's issue. Minding your own dang business is the ultimate lesson here, and some folks just can't stand to see others not choosing their own path. Be as hateful and cranky as you want within your own church, preach to the Heavens and all your congregation about the ebbil and sins of folks, but maybe step back a bit when it comes down what consenting adults do with other consenting adults, and maybe step back a bit and consider that "religious freedom" doesn't mean dictating what others can or should do within their own...
 
2013-07-27 01:57:04 PM

druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.


Exactly, I point out that the word "Disapproval"  is actually a synonym for "Aversion" listed under the Merriam-Webster thesaurus page and all he can say in reply is.

Thinks synonyms, and the included example sentences of synonyms must all mean exactly the same thing.

Then complains that there were two different meanings which is true for several words including "Aversion" but if I had not included the second meaning I probably would have been accused of being selective.

I would have thought that the fact that you included 2 examples with differing meanings would have tipped you off to the fact that your post is ridiculous, and you would have reconsidered hitting "add comment", but I guess not.
 
2013-07-27 02:09:29 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone?  Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care?  You're as useless as the people who post "lol".


"Useless"? Who, here, is not "useless"? Do you perform some useful function here, other than being the dumbest asshole in the room most of the time? Of course not. Stop being silly.
 
2013-07-27 02:15:26 PM

keenerb: I disapprove of homosexuality. I don't like it, I hope my children are straight.

But, I fully support gay marriage.

I defended fellow scouts who were gay and being bullied, twice coming to blows (lol) in their defense. I am currently working to possibly relocate my sons scout troop to a new location thanks to baptist churches views on gays in the scouts.

Two of my best friends growing up were (at best) bisexual.

Tell me I'm homophobic and I will tell you to go fark yourself.

//also disapproves of ketchup on hotdogs, rap, hipsters, and televangelists. I guess that literlly makes me hitler.


Of what exactly about homosexuality do you disapprove and dislike? Your actions speak otherwise.
 
2013-07-27 02:17:15 PM

Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

This is known as the "Orson Scott Card" argument. It's pretty childish. They like to hide behind dictionary words so they can pretend they aren't bigots.


Why, why is it that every damn time I hear the phrase 'Orson Scott Card' lately, I want to smack the man? I used to  look up to that guy...
 
2013-07-27 02:21:06 PM

keenerb: I disapprove of homosexuality. I don't like it, I hope my children are straight.

But, I fully support gay marriage.

I defended fellow scouts who were gay and being bullied, twice coming to blows (lol) in their defense. I am currently working to possibly relocate my sons scout troop to a new location thanks to baptist churches views on gays in the scouts.

Two of my best friends growing up were (at best) bisexual.

Tell me I'm homophobic and I will tell you to go fark yourself.

//also disapproves of ketchup on hotdogs, rap, hipsters, and televangelists. I guess that literlly makes me hitler.


nobody wants the sentence "i'm happy" meaning "i like taking it up the ass"  but the truth is if your single you better be depressed or else we're raping u
 
2013-07-27 02:37:55 PM

Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?


It's interesting how often people make that claim and yet never explain how their objections tp, or "disapproval" of, homosexuality doesn't spring from hate or religion.  When asked, they just change the subject or stop talking, in my experience.  Maybe today will be an exception.  We'll see.
 
2013-07-27 02:44:01 PM
I guess it's like my distaste for a lot of things. I just don't care for it, I don't participate in it, seeing two dudes making out at the mall kind of repulses me. I dislike baseball in pretty much the exact same way, except for the making out part. I also want grandkids that are my actual flesh and blood.

But realistically, someone being gay doesn't bother me in the least. It's like someone liking peanut butter and banana sandwiches, or being buddhist; it's not my business, it doesn't affect me, and gay people have every right to do their own thing as much as any other living human being on the planet.

In the scouts, I never thought "hey this kid is being picked on for being gay" it was always simply "hey this kid is being picked on."

Maybe it's some subconscious variation on that idiotic "hate the sin but not the sinner" concept, but not in a religious sense. My church is cool with gay people, even.
 
2013-07-27 02:47:30 PM

Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Shedim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

Look up the definition of homophobic.  It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

This is known as the "Orson Scott Card" argument. It's pretty childish. They like to hide behind dictionary words so they can pretend they aren't bigots.


Speaking of Orson Scott Card.... he would very much like us to forget he's a homophobe.
 
2013-07-27 02:49:15 PM

Serious Black: I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire.


Better clarify that - there's loads of married heteroFarkmen whose wives have effectively banned them from the only sexual activity they desire, too.
 
2013-07-27 02:56:31 PM

Gulper Eel: Serious Black: I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire.

Better clarify that - there's loads of married heteroFarkmen whose wives have effectively banned them from the only sexual activity they desire, too.


Should homosexual sodomy be legally punished by fines and jail time, if not death?
 
2013-07-27 03:05:42 PM

Serious Black: Gulper Eel: Serious Black: I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire.

Better clarify that - there's loads of married heteroFarkmen whose wives have effectively banned them from the only sexual activity they desire, too.

Should homosexual sodomy be legally punished by fines and jail time, if not death?


no that will only encourage MORE sodomy.

like how no one would bother looking at child porn if it was legal
 
2013-07-27 03:08:50 PM

Serious Black: Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?


They should be able to have relationships.  They shouldn't be able to get married.  They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

The Italian Farker: Exactly, I point out that the word "Disapproval"  is actually a synonym for "Aversion" listed under the Merriam-Webster thesaurus page and all he can say in reply is.


I'm sorry you don't realize how much you suck at English.  Can a person disapprove of drugs, while being able to tolerate being around them?  Yes, yes they can, and that means that "aversion" as its relevant use, is not applicable.
 
2013-07-27 03:15:16 PM

Serious Black: BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone?  Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care?  You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?


That would make far too much sense and not be trollish for him to actually respond to you. Notice how he responded to my comment though, not with any sort of refutation of his behavior and responses, but yet another troll comment. I'd like to say he's just trolling us for fun, but given his profile I'm going to guess he actually believes that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, etc. But hey, I'd love to actually see him actually come out and say what he is actually for/against rather than just trolling about use of language.

Maybe I should make it easy for him and give him a multiple choice set of answers:
a) I feel that gay people should not be allowed to marry, or that they should not have the same set of rights as others
b) Whatever people do in their houses is fine, but they shouldn't be allowed to get married because. <Feel free to insert reasoning here>
c) I feel that gay people should be allowed to marry, just as long as it's not to me.
d) I'm disturbed by the idea of people being gay, but as long as they don't try to have sex with me it's fine
e) Gay is a choice and therefore they are just weird and I don't like weird people
f) <Insert answer that is not a troll comment about language and is actually what you believe. Then people can have an actual discussion with you, regardless of what your viewpoint is. Just... friggin have... one.>

There, I made it easy for him.
 
2013-07-27 03:15:33 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Serious Black: Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?

They should be able to have relationships.  They shouldn't be able to get married.  They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

The Italian Farker: Exactly, I point out that the word "Disapproval"  is actually a synonym for "Aversion" listed under the Merriam-Webster thesaurus page and all he can say in reply is.

I'm sorry you don't realize how much you suck at English.  Can a person disapprove of drugs, while being able to tolerate being around them?  Yes, yes they can, and that means that "aversion" as its relevant use, is not applicable.


Well I would rather suck at English than have to take a word that has more than one meaning and only use the meaning that seems appropriate and ignore the other ones because they might contradict his point.
 
2013-07-27 03:17:11 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: They should be able to have relationships.  They shouldn't be able to get married.  They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.


Why shouldn't they be able to get married? Be very specific in your answer.
 
2013-07-27 03:22:45 PM
Again, the word "homophobia" in 2013 does not refer to a phobia, per se. It once did, and the word originates from psychology and phobia texts, but it's long since stopped being a medical term. It's really startling how clueless the anti-gay bigots continue to be when faced with the 21st Century.

Dumbasses. Stop trying to talk like adults. You can argue semantics, but unless you have a good reason to disapprove of homosexuality, then it's irrational, and yes, according to the dictionary in 2013, you are indeed a homophone. That's the meaning of the word.

Sorry you can't grasp all these changes going on around you.

If you just don't like gays because they weird you out or make you feel gross, that's irrational. That's homophobia.

What's a rational reason for disapproving of it, exactly, that doesn't involve a magic book?
 
2013-07-27 03:23:21 PM
homophone, ha! I always did get that confused in grade school.
 
2013-07-27 03:41:24 PM

keenerb: I guess it's like my distaste for a lot of things. I just don't care for it, I don't participate in it, seeing two dudes making out at the mall kind of repulses me. I dislike baseball in pretty much the exact same way, except for the making out part. I also want grandkids that are my actual flesh and blood.

But realistically, someone being gay doesn't bother me in the least. It's like someone liking peanut butter and banana sandwiches, or being buddhist; it's not my business, it doesn't affect me, and gay people have every right to do their own thing as much as any other living human being on the planet.

In the scouts, I never thought "hey this kid is being picked on for being gay" it was always simply "hey this kid is being picked on."

Maybe it's some subconscious variation on that idiotic "hate the sin but not the sinner" concept, but not in a religious sense. My church is cool with gay people, even.


That's not disapproval. The sight makes you squeamish. A spider hanging out in my shower makes me a little squeamish but it does not mean I disapprove of spiders. In the sex realm I find the trend of porn inevitably ending up with the dude busting a nut all over a chick's face to be repulsive but I do not disapprove if that's what people like or if that's how the actor's have chosen to make money.

Your other point about grandchildren... well you just want grandchildren. That is standard biology in the sense you want your bloodline to continue. However if anything else you said is true then you would not shun your children if they ended up being gay. If you did though then that would be disapproval and rather dickish.

And you do know that gay folks can have their own biological children, right? Whether through sucking it up and doing the nasty with the opposite sex solely for procreation or ala turkey baster it would still produce a biological grandchild so technically that should not be an issue at all.

Now how about if your kids are straight and decided to adopt how would you feel?
 
2013-07-27 03:49:25 PM

Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: They should be able to have relationships.  They shouldn't be able to get married.  They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

Why shouldn't they be able to get married? Be very specific in your answer.


After you people have shown that you're willing to continuously lie about the meaning of a word in an effort to sway an argument in your favor, why would I do that?  Why should I believe that you'll begin debating honestly now?
 
2013-07-27 03:51:00 PM

redundantman: He's a conformist, not a hero.


Awwwww, are you mad that your favorite brand of bigotry is falling out of fashion?
 
2013-07-27 04:18:18 PM
letrole: Tolerance does not equal Acceptance
It is more than a bit disingenuous to claim moral superiority because you accept or approve of something.
"Oh yeah, I think the things that I like are just nifty, and that makes me a good person", as it were.
The real moral winner is the fellow who does not approve, who does not accept, yet still tolerates the things that he does not approve or accept.
But the majority of the posters here would seem to demand that nothing short of full acceptance and approval of homosexuality will do. The amusing thing is that these posters don't view themselves as bigots -- they consider themselves quite open-minded.

jso2897: Trolling is learned behavior.


There is no troll here, except for the way that you've jumped up unbidden and barked a word that is now meaningless -- due to the way that dumbasses bark it out with no justification.

Which incidentally is the drift of the thread now in which 'phobia' does not mean 'phobia' unless it means 'phobia', or perhaps just means phobia, or some such revisionist shiat.
 
2013-07-27 04:21:15 PM
It's one thing to condemn gay bashing,  it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth.  Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.
 
2013-07-27 04:51:23 PM

STRYPERSWINE: It's one thing to condemn gay bashing,  it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth.  Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.


Funny that an Archbishop DID say that. One might think he might know the word of God better than some folks who seem to forget that there is more to The Bible than Leviticus...
 
2013-07-27 05:16:56 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: They should be able to have relationships.  They shouldn't be able to get married.  They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

Why shouldn't they be able to get married? Be very specific in your answer.

After you people have shown that you're willing to continuously lie about the meaning of a word in an effort to sway an argument in your favor, why would I do that?  Why should I believe that you'll begin debating honestly now?


Ha, I'm more interesting in the overall issue than the pedestry of a word. Can you not tell me your opinions about the subject, or do you prefer to argue proper English?

Why so scared?
 
2013-07-27 05:19:01 PM
Besides I never lied about it; I cited the dictionary, just like you asked me to. And you fit the definition as presented by Merriam-Webster.

You have no reason. You are irrational. And very ignorant. ooo you had a gay co-worker or a cousin once! But gay rights are new!

Must have missed that whole AIDS thing in the 80s, huh?
 
2013-07-27 05:24:25 PM

STRYPERSWINE: It's one thing to condemn gay bashing,  it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth.  Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.


Please. I am interested in hearing which Divinity school you did your studies at to correct the formerArchbishop. Enlighten us, please. Dazzle us with your knowledge, you crazy, shining, diamond of Ecclesiastical Studies...
 
2013-07-27 05:46:35 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hickory-smoked: If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

There are people who don't like to use heroin, but think it should be legal, and there are people who don't use heroin and think it should be illegal.  Neither one of those groups is necessarily being led by hatred or bigotry, and neither one is inherently an "asshole" because of the views they hold.  It's a shame that you can't see how your logic would (not) apply to many similar consensual activities.  How can you claim to be fighting for tolerance, when you are intolerant of those who do nothing more than disagree?


First, it isn't bigotry to dislike bigots. Don't be stupid.

Second, you are an asshole troll. Your views are that of an asshole Your distraction of how big an asshole you are via dictionary games is that of a troll.

If you weren't, your initial comment here would be 'I don't like the changing of language over time'. But of course you couldn't do that. Why? Because asshole trolls are gonna be asshole troll.
 
2013-07-27 06:36:41 PM

Confabulat: Ha, I'm more interesting in the overall issue than the pedestry of a word. Can you not tell me your opinions about the subject, or do you prefer to argue proper English?


Yeah.. I can tell...

Confabulat: Again, the word "homophobia" in 2013 does not refer to a phobia, per se. It once did, and the word originates from psychology and phobia texts, but it's long since stopped being a medical term. It's really startling how clueless the anti-gay bigots continue to be when faced with the 21st Century.


Smackledorfer: First, it isn't bigotry to dislike bigots.


It's also not bigotry if I don't like everything about you.  FFS you're dense.
 
2013-07-27 06:43:07 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hickory-smoked: If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

There are people who don't like to use heroin, but think it should be legal, and there are people who don't use heroin and think it should be illegal.  Neither one of those groups is necessarily being led by hatred or bigotry, and neither one is inherently an "asshole" because of the views they hold.  It's a shame that you can't see how your logic would (not) apply to many similar consensual activities.  How can you claim to be fighting for tolerance, when you are intolerant of those who do nothing more than disagree?


An interesting (if flawed) perspective, but since I believe your entire persona is a deliberate performance, I'm not going to waste any time with it.
 
2013-07-27 06:58:09 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Confabulat: Ha, I'm more interesting in the overall issue than the pedestry of a word. Can you not tell me your opinions about the subject, or do you prefer to argue proper English?

Yeah.. I can tell...

Confabulat: Again, the word "homophobia" in 2013 does not refer to a phobia, per se. It once did, and the word originates from psychology and phobia texts, but it's long since stopped being a medical term. It's really startling how clueless the anti-gay bigots continue to be when faced with the 21st Century.

Smackledorfer: First, it isn't bigotry to dislike bigots.

It's also not bigotry if I don't like everything about you.  FFS you're dense.


You are a bigot. Own it or change.

Or whine forever I guess.
 
2013-07-27 07:06:13 PM

Smackledorfer: You are a bigot. Own it or change.

Or whine forever I guess.


No I'm not, in fact you're just a libelous douche, or bigot is yet another word that you need to look up in the dictionary.  Take your pick, but it's one of the two.

Also, you are a bigot yourself..

: a person who is or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

It's not enough for you that I leave gay people alone.  I must love everything they do, and think they are good and wonderful at all times, or I'm bigoted according to you, which actually makes you the bigot.
 
2013-07-27 07:34:09 PM
I think it's time to clear the air on all this phobia horseshiat.

The original idea for the coining of the word homophobia ie that it was fear of homosexuality that caused normal people to disapprove -- well that's just dumb, but it's still the original idea behind the coinage.

It's not unlike the class dweeb comforting himself by pretending that he gets abused by everyone simply because everyone else is jealous of him -- "Oh, they're just jealous of me... Oh, they just fear homosexuals..."

So here it is 2013, and rather than coin a new word that means something else more appropriate, the push is to redefine phobia to mean something other than fear.

Well good farking luck on that. And whatever you do, don't dwell on the fact that it was muddled thinking that got everything wrong in the first place.

I suggest the term contra-homo.
 
2013-07-27 07:57:12 PM

Serious Black: Gulper Eel: Serious Black: I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire.

Better clarify that - there's loads of married heteroFarkmen whose wives have effectively banned them from the only sexual activity they desire, too.

Should homosexual sodomy be legally punished by fines and jail time, if not death?


I thought the Supreme Court just made it clear that homosexual sodomy can be legally punished by allowing the homosexual sodomites to get married.
 
2013-07-27 08:49:59 PM

Voiceofreason01: BraveNewCheneyWorld:
The webster definition AGAIN..  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval.  You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then chances are pretty good that it's a duck. The only person you're fooling with this kind of sophistry is yourself.


At least  BraveNewCheneyWorld calling someone else's post "ignorant twaddle" is good for a laugh.
 
2013-07-27 08:58:40 PM

WhyteRaven74: SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?

you're aware that Tutu is a raging liberal right?


Don't be silly.  OF COURSE all liberals are Muslimatheists.  Everybody knows that.
 
2013-07-27 09:12:46 PM

Fano: taurusowner: Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:


Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms. Disagreeing with something is not.

Homopathy seems more appropriate.


If Homeopathy Beats Science
 
2013-07-27 09:17:38 PM

Paris1127: [news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x495]
Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).


Well duh, Egypt is no where near Africa.

i.huffpost.com

Thanks Fox News for keeping me infromed!
 
2013-07-27 10:31:08 PM

STRYPERSWINE: It's one thing to condemn gay bashing,  it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth.  Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.


Yeah, but the fundamentalists never listen when you try to tell them that.
 
2013-07-27 10:36:16 PM

SpankMeJohnny: This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?


Libs don't hate Christians. Real Christians anyway, as opposed to authoritarian tools who say they're Christians.
 
2013-07-27 11:03:05 PM

letrole: I think it's time to clear the air on all this phobia horseshiat.

The original idea for the coining of the word homophobia ie that it was fear of homosexuality that caused normal people to disapprove -- well that's just dumb, but it's still the original idea behind the coinage.

It's not unlike the class dweeb comforting himself by pretending that he gets abused by everyone simply because everyone else is jealous of him -- "Oh, they're just jealous of me... Oh, they just fear homosexuals..."

So here it is 2013, and rather than coin a new word that means something else more appropriate, the push is to redefine phobia to mean something other than fear.

Well good farking luck on that. And whatever you do, don't dwell on the fact that it was muddled thinking that got everything wrong in the first place.

I suggest the term contra-homo.


All very fascinating, I'm sure.

But let's move on to something of substance; what specific political or social ends do these "contra-homos" hope to accomplish... Either long term, or here in the year 2013?
 
2013-07-28 12:05:48 AM

ciberido: STRYPERSWINE: It's one thing to condemn gay bashing,  it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth.  Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.

Yeah, but the fundamentalists never listen when you try to tell them that.


Well, there are 75 OTHER things that Leviticus alone is down on, that folks don't seem to be all up in arms about...

1.       Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11)
Not a huge problem nowadays.

2.       Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13)
Again, not a huge deal to most Christian churches.

3.       Eating fat (3:17)
Southern cuisine is in trouble

4.       Eating blood (3:17)
German cuisine is in trouble.

5.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you've witnessed (5:1)
Congress is in trouble.

6.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you've been told about (5:1)
Congress is REALLY in trouble

7.       Touching an unclean animal (5:2)
Hope you don't like pork...

8.       Carelessly making an oath (5:4)
Again, Congress is REALLY in trouble

9.       Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2)
HOAs are against God...

10.   Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3)
Much of America is DOOMED...

11.   Bringing unauthorized fire before God (10:1)
The candle trade for saints is apparently DOOOOOOM!

12.   Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6)
Hipsters, teens, and much of Hollywood is DOOOOOMED!

13.   Tearing your clothes (10:6)
Wrasslin' is the work of the Debbil

14.   Drinking alcohol in holy places (10:9)
Catholics, we're looking right at you....

15.   Eating an animal which doesn't both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7)
Rib joints are the work of the Debbil...

16.   Touching the carcass of any of the above (11:8)
Hope you aren't a fan of football...

17.   Eating - or touching the carcass of - any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12)
Red Lobster is the work of the Debbil...

18.   Eating - or touching the carcass of - eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19)
In fairness, this means that Newage folks are DOOOOOMED!

19.   Eating - or touching the carcass of - flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22)
Cicadas may be out.

20.   Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (11:27)
Roof rabbit may have doomed the entire Greatest Generation...

21.   Eating - or touching the carcass of - the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29)
Hope you haven't had gator bites...

22.   Eating - or touching the carcass of - any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42)
Rattlesnake BBQ is RIGHT out...

23.   Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4)
Hope you aren't having that Christening too early, you naughty folks...

24.   Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5)
See the above, but double time for the girlchil'run...

25.   Having sex with your mother (18:7)
Which is not a bad rule to have, but let's face it, this rule pretty much takes out a good section of 90s day time TV

26.   Having sex with your father's wife (18:8)
Not a bad rule either, but see the above section on reality TV...

27.   Having sex with your sister (18:9)
This one is going to have Kentucky and good sections of the South, and Maine in trouble...

28.   Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)
Not a bad rule at all, and...ewwwhttp://www....%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e29/" target="_blank">

29.  Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)
See the earlier section on day time TV...

30.   Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13)
Again, see the section on day time TV...

31.   Having sex with your uncle's wife (18:14)
Man, Maury would be screwed if we damn everyone for this...

32.   Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15)
Maury may have sent a brazillion folks to Hell for this...

33.   Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16)
Congress may be in trouble here too...

34.   Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (18:17)
Alan Clarke and Maury are soooo screwed on this.

35.   Marrying your wife's sister while your wife still lives (18:18)
Man, day time TV is just rife with sinfulness. Should we let children watch this smut?

36.   Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19)
Redwings. Apparently, always a bad idea...

37.   Having sex with your neighbour's wife (18:20)
Congress, and a fair amount of middle America is sooooo boned...

38.   Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21)
In fairness, I'm all for religious freedom, but this seems like a good, commonsense rule.

39.   Having sex with a man "as one does with a woman" (18:22)
There it is. THIS apparently is THE important one.

40.   Having sex with an animal (18:23)
The Scots apparently have generations of sending kindling to Hell...

41.   Making idols or "metal gods" (19:4)
Catholics, you may be in some trouble here...

42.   Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9)
Yup. We're supposed to leave stuff for the poor and destitute to glean from the fields...

43.   Picking up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10)
Factory farming is the work of the Debbil...

44.   Stealing (19:11)
Congress and much of the legal system is so screwed...

45.   Lying (19:11)
Is there anything Congress CAN do then?

46.   Swearing falsely on God's name (19:12)
Pat Robertson and Congress apparently makes Jehovah wroth...

47.   Defrauding your neighbor (19:13)
Real estate and much of America is boned. You'll note how wroth folks are about this one, while being ghey is just the work of the Debbil...

48.   Holding back the wages of an employee overnight (19:13)
Paychecks are the work of the Debbil...

49.   Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14)
God is hard on douchebags...

50.   Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich (19:15)
Congress in both houses are boned...

51.   Spreading slander (19:16)
As are the tabloids...

52.   Doing anything to endanger a neighbour's life (19:16)
Most of America and the "here, hold my beer" crowd is screwed...

53.   Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18)
Congress...you are sooooooooo going ALL of you to Hell...

54.   Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19)
Walmart, Sears, and Target. Agents of Satan...

55.   Cross-breeding animals (19:19)
God IS against GMO husbandry...

56.   Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19)
Put down the basil and the tomatoes. I don't care if they DO complement one another's growth, it's BAD!

57.   Sleeping with another man's slave (19:20)
Seriously. Bad form folks. Bad form.

58.   Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23)
The apple industry is the work of the Debbil...

59.   Practicing divination or seeking omens (tut, tut astrology) (19:26)
Miss Cleo is the work of the Debbil, and here we have this sin IN OUR PAPERS!

60.   Trimming your beard (19:27)
Look at all the dirty bastiches who do this. LOOK AT THEM!

61.   Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27)
The Marines are the work of the Debbil...

62.   Getting tattoos (19:28)
Tramp stamps and memorial tattoos are the work of the Debbil...

63.   Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29)
Daytime TV is SUCH a sinful place...

64.   Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31)
Miss Cleo. Leading a nation into sin and depravity...

65.   Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32)
Welp, this one seems right out today...

66.   Mistreating foreigners - "the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born"  (19:33-34)
Guess that means we can stop those Oathkeepers and Sheriff Joe from being mean to the immigrants then, right? Border fences are the Debbil's chopsticks I guess...

67.   Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36)
My industry is boned as a whole, as is pretty much most of the oil industry as well...

68.   Cursing your father or mother (punishable by death) (20:9)
Maury and the rest could have made a few bucks by televising the stonings though...

69.   Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13)
Odd, that you don't see more folks incensed by this...

70.   Entering a place where there's a dead body as a priest (21:11)
Which pretty much means that all our chaplains are boned.

71.   Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28)
And in fairness, it's rude too. Eating mama and her babies is just greedy...

72.   Working on the Sabbath (23:3)
Sadly, this means no liquor stores open on Saturday or Sunday...

73.   Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death) (24:14)
Man, we are going to need a LOT of stones. Just in the State legislatures, and let's not even get onto Congress...

74.   Inflicting an injury; killing someone else's animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22)
This WOULD end cockfighting and dogfighting quick though...

75.   Selling land permanently (25:23)
Odd, you don't see more protests and signs around real estate agencies...

76.   Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42)
So, I guess we should be OK with slaves again?

So, STRYPERSWINE, do you think that those folks who know better than an Archbishop should be equally upset about these? Please. Do tell us. Please.
 
2013-07-28 12:28:25 AM
There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor).  But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor
//not that it matters.  The text is plain.
 
2013-07-28 12:36:18 AM

STRYPERSWINE: There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor).  But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor
//not that it matters.  The text is plain.


You didn't answer the question of why THIS issue is so important, but the OTHER 75 are just "meh."  Please. go on.
 
2013-07-28 12:48:50 AM

STRYPERSWINE: There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor).  But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor
//not that it matters.  The text is plain.


Why would god make some people (and animals) gay if he didn't want them to act on it? Did they win the pre-birth lottery to do life on the hard setting with extra sins and temptations to fight against? Or is God such an asshole that he made some people naturally designed to sin just for fun?

/"homosexuality is a choice" is not a valid respone
 
2013-07-28 01:04:21 AM

jchuffyman: STRYPERSWINE: There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor).  But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor
//not that it matters.  The text is plain.

Why would god make some people (and animals) gay if he didn't want them to act on it? Did they win the pre-birth lottery to do life on the hard setting with extra sins and temptations to fight against? Or is God such an asshole that he made some people naturally designed to sin just for fun?

/"homosexuality is a choice" is not a valid respone


I am with tutu. But then I say the same regarding hell. I will never willingly worship something so powerful that it creates life while being knowing enough to see what those lives will do, and then demands worship on pain of eternal damnation.

That and the complete lack of convincing evidence such a god exists.
 
2013-07-28 01:11:57 AM

Smackledorfer: jchuffyman: STRYPERSWINE: There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor).  But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor
//not that it matters.  The text is plain.

Why would god make some people (and animals) gay if he didn't want them to act on it? Did they win the pre-birth lottery to do life on the hard setting with extra sins and temptations to fight against? Or is God such an asshole that he made some people naturally designed to sin just for fun?

/"homosexuality is a choice" is not a valid respone

I am with tutu. But then I say the same regarding hell. I will never willingly worship something so powerful that it creates life while being knowing enough to see what those lives will do, and then demands worship on pain of eternal damnation.

That and the complete lack of convincing evidence such a god exists.


Of course. I'm not religious. And that is one of the reasons why. If you assume God exists for the sake of argument, you pretty much have to conclude that that being is evil and not worthy of being worshiped.
 
2013-07-28 01:29:55 AM

DerAppie: No, things that don't affect me are things that don't affect me


violent crime does effect you. You're an idiot if you cant see that.
 
2013-07-28 02:20:07 AM

hubiestubert: Well, there are 75 OTHER things that Leviticus alone is down on, that folks don't seem to be all up in arms about...


Yes, but they're not going to do anything about them because nobody's out there campaigning against them. I mean when was the last time you saw a "Tattoo Pride" parade? They're specifically up in arms about "gay marriage" because they view it as a direct attack on one of their sacred institutions. Leviticus is the most obvious "prohibition" about it, but there are other sections that don't exactly look kindly to it (I believe STRYPERSWINE may have been referring to Romans 1:18-27 before).

Actually, STRYPERSWINE, if you're still here can I ask you something? I was reading somewhere that the coming of Jesus was meant to "nullify" the civil and ceremonial laws as laid down in Leviticus (but not the moral laws i.e. Ten Commandments - nobody gets out of those) so the Christians that came after him didn't have to follow them. Is that accurate?
 
2013-07-28 02:55:40 AM
ALL of us are born with inclination towards different sins.  Christianity doesn't require gentile believers to become Jews but homosexuality isn't only mentioned in Leviticus.  Live and let live, but don't pretend that God is ok with it.  Tutu should know better.
 
2013-07-28 04:20:47 AM

log_jammin: DerAppie: No, things that don't affect me are things that don't affect me

violent crime does effect you. You're an idiot if you cant see that.


Violent crime in South Africa affects me in northern Europe? (the example was lifted verbatim from TFA)

Anyway, I never intended that post to be taken that seriously. It was just an example that people have opinions on things that don't affect them all the time, and I picked this one because people agree pretty universally that everyone is supposed to care about these kinds of things. Even if it is so far away that the occurrence might as well have been a work of fiction for all the influence it has on our daily life.
 
2013-07-28 04:38:39 AM

DerAppie: Anyway, I never intended that post to be taken that seriously.


thank god for that.
 
2013-07-28 08:56:32 AM

STRYPERSWINE: ALL of us are born with inclination towards different sins.  Christianity doesn't require gentile believers to become Jews but homosexuality isn't only mentioned in Leviticus.  Live and let live, but don't pretend that God is ok with it.  Tutu should know better.


How dare he look to the book of Matthew, after all...
 
2013-07-28 10:25:07 AM

STRYPERSWINE: ALL of us are born with inclination towards different sins.  Christianity doesn't require gentile believers to become Jews but homosexuality isn't only mentioned in Leviticus.  Live and let live, but don't pretend that God is ok with it.  Tutu should know better.

 
2013-07-28 11:04:49 AM

STRYPERSWINE: ALL of us are born with inclination towards different sins.  Christianity doesn't require gentile believers to become Jews but homosexuality isn't only mentioned in Leviticus.  Live and let live, but don't pretend that God is ok with it.  Tutu should know better.


It is a pretty ballsy assumption to make to say that everyone has an equal set of hurdles in front of them. Also afaict complete rubbish. This is why people dislike the religious: they pretty much just make up whatever they want, preach it as truth, but get upset at anyone else who does the same.
 
2013-07-28 01:11:17 PM

Shedim: hubiestubert: Well, there are 75 OTHER things that Leviticus alone is down on, that folks don't seem to be all up in arms about...

Yes, but they're not going to do anything about them because nobody's out there campaigning against them. I mean when was the last time you saw a "Tattoo Pride" parade? They're specifically up in arms about "gay marriage" because they view it as a direct attack on one of their sacred institutions. Leviticus is the most obvious "prohibition" about it, but there are other sections that don't exactly look kindly to it (I believe STRYPERSWINE may have been referring to Romans 1:18-27 before).

Actually, STRYPERSWINE, if you're still here can I ask you something? I was reading somewhere that the coming of Jesus was meant to "nullify" the civil and ceremonial laws as laid down in Leviticus (but not the moral laws i.e. Ten Commandments - nobody gets out of those) so the Christians that came after him didn't have to follow them. Is that accurate?



I know you didn't ask me, but I can answer for you. Short answer - depends entirely on which branch of Christianity you're talking about. I forget where exactly, but somewhere Jesus basically says he did not come to replace the laws. So, some groups point to that and say ALL the laws are still needed. On the other end, some say Jesus replaced all of them - I know of at least one school of theology that Jesus dying on the cross removed original sin as well, rendering most of the laws unnecessary(as well as baptism and a few other things). Then you can find things on pretty much any point of the spectrum between the two.

So yea..basically...it depends?
 
2013-07-28 02:07:00 PM
Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.

But, the sight of of two guys making out turns my stomach a bit.  The thought of one pounding another's anal cavity is quite unpleasant to me.  Not too distant from beastiality or other perversions (just my perception of it).

Now - why do people fail to accept homosexuality?

My only experience with the "sex" part of homosexuality was when several younger boy scouts in my patrol were molested by an older scout - quite a few years older than the youngest scouts and in a leadership position.  They were young, barely pubescent teens - now grown men with families.  He knew how to use straight porn to get them aroused and then would molest them.  I was responsible for them as their patrol leader, and the whole mess really pissed me off.  That, and tales of the high school drama teacher molesting the kid who lived across the street and my friends who went to Catholic boarding schools having to quickly learn to avoid certain teachers, etc.   A bit of a theme developed.  And this is limited exposure is shared amongst many of my straight adult friends.  Interaction with gay folks in the teen years was often a bit traumatic.

Now examine this from a religious point of view.   I grew up Southern Baptist.  They did not allow African-Americans in their churches. They would not perform mixed race weddings.  They would not allow dancing at church functions.  It was an atmosphere where people revelled in the discussions of the weaknesses of others.  Piety and criticism of those of other faiths and other lifestyles was encouraged.    I now understand that religions are scams to manipulate the masses, but it is quite clear that the teachings of the church prohibit homosexuality.

The solution?  Do not worry about what religions think about homosexuality.  It really doesn't matter.  Support gay rights, and abandon religion.  I really think that if an older gay teen is free to establish a relationship with another gay guy, he'll get all the sex he needs and not molest the little boys in his boy scout troop.  Freedom to practice the sexual impulses with which we are genetically programmed will reduce the number folks who have to deny their sexual preferences to their friends, families, and their governments.  There will be fewer "closeted" gay guys who sneak off to Atlanta for a weekend and participate in high risk sexual activity.  They will be free to establish long-term relationships, practice monogamy, and focus on the relationship, not sex - just like the hetero couples.

So those of us who are not gay may have reasons to be a bit cautious, or even object based on the errant religious beliefs we were taught from childhood.  But we're not afraid of gay people.  Homophobic is the wrong word.
 
2013-07-28 02:17:38 PM

MerelyFoolish: Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.


With attitude like that, no one should be calling you homophobic. There's a major difference between "I personally don't like it but they should have all the same rights," and "Gays are icky and shouldn't get married because (fake) reasons."

That being said, if people are calling you homophobic, it calls for a Jon-Stewart-You're-Not-Helping type thing.
 
2013-07-28 02:22:14 PM

MerelyFoolish: So the word is insulting each time I hear it.


Anyone insulted by the word should get off their cross and wonder why other people find them obnoxiously rude.

I don't care what you do with your dick, and I don't spend my time bringing up any disgust I may or may not have with how you use it.

You, on the other hand, feel the need to get upset at the changing of language over time and then follow it up with telling them that they are revolting. Yet you call for others to change the language they use to suit you?   If you cannot simply say "I support gay rights" without following it up with a dozen different 'buts' then go fark yourself.

MerelyFoolish: So those of us who are not gay may have reasons to be a bit cautious


They may be reasons, but they are not valid reasons.  Especially the idea that rapists wouldn't rape if they had easier access to the hole of their choosing.
 
2013-07-28 02:23:55 PM

grumpfuff: MerelyFoolish: Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.

With attitude like that, no one should be calling you homophobic. There's a major difference between "I personally don't like it but they should have all the same rights," and "Gays are icky and shouldn't get married because (fake) reasons."

That being said, if people are calling you homophobic, it calls for a Jon-Stewart-You're-Not-Helping type thing.


Aside from changing usage of the word as has been thoroughly covered including dictionary definitions which would apply to his views of gays so much as kissing, the reason he is called a homophobe is because he seems to go through the day actively complaining about gays and then paying lip service to their rights.
 
2013-07-28 03:01:31 PM

Smackledorfer: grumpfuff: MerelyFoolish: Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.

With attitude like that, no one should be calling you homophobic. There's a major difference between "I personally don't like it but they should have all the same rights," and "Gays are icky and shouldn't get married because (fake) reasons."

That being said, if people are calling you homophobic, it calls for a Jon-Stewart-You're-Not-Helping type thing.

Aside from changing usage of the word as has been thoroughly covered including dictionary definitions which would apply to his views of gays so much as kissing, the reason he is called a homophobe is because he seems to go through the day actively complaining about gays and then paying lip service to their rights.


Meh, I admit I only gave his post a quick read. If what you say is true..yea, homophobe. Own it, buddy.

Just like Cheney "I don't like gays but I'm not a homophobe because reasons" World up thread.
 
2013-07-28 04:53:27 PM
if you don't like hemmroids you're a definitely NOT a homophobe.  cause they love stuff up there
 
2013-07-28 05:02:26 PM

grumpfuff: Smackledorfer: grumpfuff: MerelyFoolish: Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.

With attitude like that, no one should be calling you homophobic. There's a major difference between "I personally don't like it but they should have all the same rights," and "Gays are icky and shouldn't get married because (fake) reasons."

That being said, if people are calling you homophobic, it calls for a Jon-Stewart-You're-Not-Helping type thing.

Aside from changing usage of the word as has been thoroughly covered including dictionary definitions which would apply to his views of gays so much as kissing, the reason he is called a homophobe is because he seems to go through the day actively complaining about gays and then paying lip service to their rights.

Meh, I admit I only gave his post a quick read. If what you say is true..yea, homophobe. Own it, buddy.

Just like Cheney "I don't like gays but I'm not a homophobe because reasons" World up thread.


Yeah, because saying I don't approve of homosexuality is exactly the same as beating a homosexual to death with a baseball bat.  Interesting how you people insist in making this all about hatred, when we repeatedly tell you that hatred doesn't exist here.  Sorry to godwin the thread, but you're taking a page out of someone's playbook.

"Hate is more lasting than dislike" - Adolph Hitler
 
2013-07-28 05:07:50 PM

grumpfuff: I know you didn't ask me, but I can answer for you. Short answer - depends entirely on which branch of Christianity you're talking about. I forget where exactly, but somewhere Jesus basically says he did not come to replace the laws. So, some groups point to that and say ALL the laws are still needed. On the other end, some say Jesus replaced all of them - I know of at least one school of theology that Jesus dying on the cross removed original sin as well, rendering most of the laws unnecessary(as well as baptism and a few other things). Then you can find things on pretty much any point of the spectrum between the two.

So yea..basically...it depends?


Thanks for answering. I read about it from here and I just wanted to get another source. I was only half-expecting STRYPWERSWINE to answer me (or even acknowledge they'd read my query in the first place).

I'm surprised at how many people are using argumentum ad dictionarium in this thread. Maybe it's the only "argument" they feel they have left...
 
2013-07-28 05:16:56 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: grumpfuff: Smackledorfer: grumpfuff: MerelyFoolish: Please, please, please - stop using the word homophobic.   No one is afraid of homosexuals - except maybe a few Catholic alterboys.

We are not afraid of them - as the word implies.  So the word is insulting each time I hear it.  I am not a homosexual and I do not fear them.  I fully support their right to happily and joyfully find partners and marry.   They should have partner rights.  I appreciate the fact that we are different and feel that it is important to allow them all of the freedoms granted to heterosexuals.

With attitude like that, no one should be calling you homophobic. There's a major difference between "I personally don't like it but they should have all the same rights," and "Gays are icky and shouldn't get married because (fake) reasons."

That being said, if people are calling you homophobic, it calls for a Jon-Stewart-You're-Not-Helping type thing.

Aside from changing usage of the word as has been thoroughly covered including dictionary definitions which would apply to his views of gays so much as kissing, the reason he is called a homophobe is because he seems to go through the day actively complaining about gays and then paying lip service to their rights.

Meh, I admit I only gave his post a quick read. If what you say is true..yea, homophobe. Own it, buddy.

Just like Cheney "I don't like gays but I'm not a homophobe because reasons" World up thread.

Yeah, because saying I don't approve of homosexuality is exactly the same as beating a homosexual to death with a baseball bat. Interesting how you people insist in making this all about hatred, when we repeatedly tell you that hatred doesn't exist here.  Sorry to godwin the thread, but you're taking a page out of someone's playbook.

"Hate is more lasting than dislike" - Adolph Hitler


When you give an actual reason for a LEGITIMATE reason for disapproving of homosexuality, then I will gladly admit to being wrong and retract my accusation. And to be honest, I don't hate you. If anything, I feel sorry for you. You might be a great guy overall in real life. Here's a hint. Calling you a homophobe does not mean I hate you.
 
2013-07-28 05:26:00 PM

Shedim: grumpfuff: I know you didn't ask me, but I can answer for you. Short answer - depends entirely on which branch of Christianity you're talking about. I forget where exactly, but somewhere Jesus basically says he did not come to replace the laws. So, some groups point to that and say ALL the laws are still needed. On the other end, some say Jesus replaced all of them - I know of at least one school of theology that Jesus dying on the cross removed original sin as well, rendering most of the laws unnecessary(as well as baptism and a few other things). Then you can find things on pretty much any point of the spectrum between the two.

So yea..basically...it depends?

Thanks for answering. I read about it from here and I just wanted to get another source. I was only half-expecting STRYPWERSWINE to answer me (or even acknowledge they'd read my query in the first place).

I'm surprised at how many people are using argumentum ad dictionarium in this thread. Maybe it's the only "argument" they feel they have left...


Gave it a quick read. Not a huge fan of RW but it seems mostly correct. I'd disagree with some details, ie there's never really been a consensus on what can ignored and what can't. It all depends on who you ask. There is literally a world of literature about just this question out there if you're really curious.
 
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