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(Opposing Views)   New bill aims to ensure that rapists don't get custody over children conceived from the rape. Wait, this isn't a law yet?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 148
    More: Interesting, rapists, child custody, thinkprogress  
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4048 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2013 at 8:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 08:18:35 PM  
Well I'll be damned
 
2013-07-26 08:24:58 PM  
So what if the woman is the rapist?
 
2013-07-26 08:27:53 PM  

debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?


Then they'll get married when he comes of age.
 
2013-07-26 08:28:16 PM  

debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?


Yeah, I'm still okay with that. Have CFS take the child after birth.
 
2013-07-26 08:28:17 PM  
I think the issue is with marital rape. Family law probably pays attention to a child conceived during a marriage as belonging to a family, and applies divorce laws that way. debug you might try reading a John Irving novel.
 
2013-07-26 08:28:48 PM  
This sounds like an excellent idea, but I hope it doesn't make custody battles even uglier by giving anyone an incentive to make false accusations of rape.
 
2013-07-26 08:29:18 PM  
It's like a law against screwing dead dogs...who thought you'd need such a law?
 
2013-07-26 08:30:07 PM  
How many wives will start claiming their child was a result of marital rape and once again the father has no rights
 
2013-07-26 08:30:08 PM  
Of course it isn't a law Subby, and shouldn't be one. If a woman is the victim of legitimate rape, her body has a way to shut the whole pregnancy down, we all know this. Why would we need this law when God has given women a natural way to keep pregnancies from legitimate rape from happening? This is nothing more than another assault from the Left in their war against white Christian men and the family. Shame on them.
 
2013-07-26 08:30:40 PM  
Where, exactly, is the federal jurisdiction over child custody or routine criminal matters?

Conservatives, aren't you outraged by this brutal rape of the 10th Amendment?
 
2013-07-26 08:32:32 PM  
If the father is the father, then he has paternal rights. Unless those rights are terminated by a court order, he could be ordered to pay child support--and therefore has a right to see his child. How the child was conceived is not relevant for support or visitation law.
 
2013-07-26 08:33:32 PM  

Uzzah: Where, exactly, is the federal jurisdiction over child custody or routine criminal matters?

Conservatives, aren't you outraged by this brutal rape of the 10th Amendment?


If you read the text of the bill (I know, who the fark does that?) you'll see that it establishes a grant for states that enact laws that prevent rapists from gaining custody of children they father.

I'm annoyed that the federal government can make and end run around the 10th this way, but it's been ruled legal by the supreme court, so there's not much left to say.
 
2013-07-26 08:33:52 PM  
This will get abused by people going through divorces to gain child custody/support. It will serve to further marginalize what "rape" means.
 
2013-07-26 08:36:10 PM  

netweavr: This will get abused by people going through divorces to gain child custody/support. It will serve to further marginalize what "rape" means.


I'm pretty sure the person has to be convicted of rape first.
 
2013-07-26 08:37:15 PM  
Why wouldn't someone take Plan B after a rape just in case?

Is there any real reason other than religious beliefs?

/not attacking or judging, just curious
//I get that it's a traumatic experience
///don't know how to use hashes to not come off like a chauvinist monster
 
2013-07-26 08:37:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If the father is the father, then he has paternal rights. Unless those rights are terminated by a court order, he could be ordered to pay child support--and therefore has a right to see his child. How the child was conceived is not relevant for support or visitation law.


How about looking at it this way. IANAL, but I think any contract entered into illegally is unenforceable. If conception is a contract between a man and woman to make a child, then the fact that it was entered into illegally would invalidate any paternal claim.

/oh yeah, serious mental hoops to get there, but it doesn't seem that far-fetched when you hear what the GOP thinks about how babby is formed
 
2013-07-26 08:37:35 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If the father is the father, then he has paternal rights. Unless those rights are terminated by a court order, he could be ordered to pay child support--and therefore has a right to see his child. How the child was conceived is not relevant for support or visitation law.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-26 08:37:53 PM  

debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?


It doesn't apply.

Full TitleTo direct the Attorney General to make grants to States that have in place laws that terminate the parental rights of men who father children through rape.
 
2013-07-26 08:39:07 PM  

netweavr: debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?

It doesn't apply.

Full TitleTo direct the Attorney General to make grants to States that have in place laws that terminate the parental rights of men who father children through rape.


Some people believe that women can't be rapist.
 
2013-07-26 08:39:18 PM  

ondebug: So what if the woman is the rapist?


She can't have an abortion and she can't have the child? I feel her state rep or senator should have to raise the child if they voted yes on restricting abortion. Do you know how they use the possession arrow in basketball? This insures everyone has some skin in the game. Jesus loves them and prayer will be helpful, but... the child is borne of your strong conviction and that is the same as having sex. If you don't take the child, you are guilty of spiritually legalized rape.
 
2013-07-26 08:39:43 PM  

Underwater Bystander: Why wouldn't someone take Plan B after a rape just in case?

Is there any real reason other than religious beliefs?

/not attacking or judging, just curious
//I get that it's a traumatic experience
///don't know how to use hashes to not come off like a chauvinist monster


Because Republicans think that counts as an abortion and they are nationally trying to keep women from even having that option?
 
2013-07-26 08:39:51 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: I think the issue is with marital rape. Family law probably pays attention to a child conceived during a marriage as belonging to a family, and applies divorce laws that way. debug you might try reading a John Irving novel.


John Irving is one of my favorite authors.
 
2013-07-26 08:40:11 PM  

Underwater Bystander: Why wouldn't someone take Plan B after a rape just in case?

Is there any real reason other than religious beliefs?

/not attacking or judging, just curious
//I get that it's a traumatic experience
///don't know how to use hashes to not come off like a chauvinist monster


I have a friend who actually described her twins as gifts that made up for the horror of rape, and she seemed genuinely happy to have them. So. . .

Also, after contemplating it a little, if I were to get raped and get pregnant, considering I'm 30, and if there were no STDs to speak of. . . I might consider keeping it. I dunno, and I hope I have never have to find out the answer to that question.
 
2013-07-26 08:40:46 PM  

ongbok: netweavr: This will get abused by people going through divorces to gain child custody/support. It will serve to further marginalize what "rape" means.

I'm pretty sure the person has to be convicted of rape first.


Nope:
SEC. 3. GRANTS AUTHORIZED.The Attorney General shall make grants to States that have in place a law that allows the mother of any child that was conceived through rape to seek court-ordered termination of the parental rights of her rapist with regard to that child, which the court shall grant upon clear and convincing evidence of rape.
If the court decides it thinks the rape occurred, then the law takes over. Neither conviction nor a trial is required.
 
2013-07-26 08:40:47 PM  

ongbok: netweavr: This will get abused by people going through divorces to gain child custody/support. It will serve to further marginalize what "rape" means.

I'm pretty sure the person has to be convicted of rape first.


This is what it says in the bill:
The Attorney General shall make grants to States that have in place a law that allows the mother of any child that was conceived through rape to seek court-ordered termination of the parental rights of her rapist with regard to that child, which the court shall grant upon clear and convincing evidence of rape.

It sounds (based on my internet GED in law) like they're encouraging family courts to decide whether a father loses custody rights with a standard of evidence much lower than criminal law.
 
2013-07-26 08:41:20 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If the father is the father, then he has paternal rights. Unless those rights are terminated by a court order, he could be ordered to pay child support--and therefore has a right to see his child. How the child was conceived is not relevant for support or visitation law.


I'm pretty sure that legislation is sufficient to terminate those rights, at least until a court rules such legislation unconstitutional--which, one would hope, requires some actual contradiction between the law and the Constitution. We certainly revoke far baser rights through legislation than the paternal rights of a rapist.
 
2013-07-26 08:42:09 PM  
Rape conviction should automatically mean no parental rights.
 
2013-07-26 08:42:48 PM  

netweavr: ongbok: netweavr: This will get abused by people going through divorces to gain child custody/support. It will serve to further marginalize what "rape" means.

I'm pretty sure the person has to be convicted of rape first.

Nope:
SEC. 3. GRANTS AUTHORIZED.The Attorney General shall make grants to States that have in place a law that allows the mother of any child that was conceived through rape to seek court-ordered termination of the parental rights of her rapist with regard to that child, which the court shall grant upon clear and convincing evidence of rape.
If the court decides it thinks the rape occurred, then the law takes over. Neither conviction nor a trial is required.


O boy, this is going to be interesting. Make it so that there has to be a conviction first, and I am all for it, but this is just crap.
 
2013-07-26 08:43:40 PM  

stuffy: Rape conviction should automatically mean no parental rights.


No argument, but the bill doesn't require a conviction.
 
2013-07-26 08:45:50 PM  
To summarize;

This bill would only apply to women who conceive as a result of being raped, not as a result of raping.

This bill does not require a rape conviction nor trial to determine if a rape occurred it is left to the judgement of the court.
 
2013-07-26 08:46:55 PM  

netweavr: debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?

It doesn't apply.

Full TitleTo direct the Attorney General to make grants to States that have in place laws that terminate the parental rights of men who father children through rape.


I'll be damned, Gyrfalcon, this thing looks unconstitutional on its face. I've never heard of a "law discriminates against men" case being raised to a level above intermediate scrutiny, though, which is supposedly the going standard for this sort of thing.

/never did get my GED in law, and I hate Holiday Inns
 
2013-07-26 08:47:32 PM  
it sure must be difficult to spooge in someone they don't truly love
 
2013-07-26 08:47:55 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If the father is the father, then he has paternal rights. Unless those rights are terminated by a court order, he could be ordered to pay child support--and therefore has a right to see his child. How the child was conceived is not relevant for support or visitation law.


images.wikia.com
 
2013-07-26 08:48:13 PM  

JesseL: It sounds (based on my internet GED in law) like they're encouraging family courts to decide whether a father loses custody rights with a standard of evidence much lower than criminal law.




Well, family courts have always decided parental-rights issues. Also, this law kind of requires the conviction of rape first (I hope; DNRTFA) so it isn't as if a higher set of standards haven't already been applied.
 
2013-07-26 08:48:23 PM  
What if its a jelly baby?
 
2013-07-26 08:48:49 PM  
Not sure what the bill is saying.. so, no more free incubators?
 
2013-07-26 08:48:51 PM  
I think it's been common law, but some legislator felt they needed to do their handstand on the beach.
 
2013-07-26 08:49:19 PM  
Makes perfect sense - prevent the18 year old convicted of statutory rape who got his 16 year old girlfriend pregnant from ever having custody.
 
2013-07-26 08:50:32 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: JesseL: It sounds (based on my internet GED in law) like they're encouraging family courts to decide whether a father loses custody rights with a standard of evidence much lower than criminal law.

Well, family courts have always decided parental-rights issues. Also, this law kind of requires the conviction of rape first (I hope; DNRTFA) so it isn't as if a higher set of standards haven't already been applied.


Did you even read the quote I posted from the bill? No conviction is required.
 
2013-07-26 08:50:55 PM  
why 18 why not 23
 
2013-07-26 08:51:03 PM  
The federal government should not be involved in this.  This is a huge overstep by the Congress.  Family law should be left entirely to the States.
 
2013-07-26 08:53:19 PM  

JesseL: stuffy: Rape conviction should automatically mean no parental rights.

No argument, but the bill doesn't require a conviction.


Wait, no conviction needed?  All that's required is an accusation?

Yeah, this bill is just going to make nasty custody battles between divorcing coples a whole lot nastier.
 
2013-07-26 08:54:00 PM  
hey some people like living their entire lives in prison.
 
2013-07-26 08:57:22 PM  

Doc Daneeka: All that's required is an accusation?


Actually, it requires evidence presented to the court that the conception was during rape.
 
2013-07-26 08:58:36 PM  
Where are all the farkers who claim men's rights advocates have no standing and are not being marginalized? Women now have yet another tool to take visitation rights from men. As of the fam courts weren't biased enough. No conviction needed... really?
 
2013-07-26 08:59:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: Doc Daneeka: All that's required is an accusation?

Actually, it requires evidence presented to the court that the conception was during rape.


Evidence can be anything, including the woman's testimony. It doesn't say convincing or even reasonable evidence.
 
2013-07-26 08:59:31 PM  

JesseL: This sounds like an excellent idea, but I hope it doesn't make custody battles even uglier by giving anyone an incentive to make false accusations of rape.


That part will happen pretty definitely.
 
2013-07-26 08:59:45 PM  

debug: So what if the woman is the rapist?


I remember reading about a case where a woman tried to sue a teenager for child support for a baby they conceived when he was 14 or so. Long story short, she ended up being convicted of being a child rapist and because of that she lost custody of the baby to the boy's parents.
 
2013-07-26 09:00:35 PM  

MyRandomName: Where are all the farkers who claim men's rights advocates have no standing and are not being marginalized? Women now have yet another tool to take visitation rights from men. As of the fam courts weren't biased enough. No conviction needed... really?


farm courts?

home.intranet.org
 
2013-07-26 09:00:56 PM  
The GOP will oppose this as an example of feminist over-reach.
 
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