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(The New York Times)   US informs Russia that since it doesn't officially torture or kill prisoners, Snowden has no claim to asylum   (nytimes.com) divider line 29
    More: Ironic, Russia, United States, political asylum, torture, prisoners  
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1874 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jul 2013 at 2:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-26 03:07:12 PM  
4 votes:
Dear America

When you extradite your war criminals to The Hague for trial and execution life imprisonment whatever, then we can talk about the rule of law, political asylum, etc.

i651.photobucket.com

xxoo,
Russia
2013-07-26 01:48:43 PM  
3 votes:
www.logarchism.com

Here is an American citizen tortured by the US government.
2013-07-26 12:44:14 PM  
3 votes:
He'll just get renditioned to somewhere that does.
2013-07-26 12:41:39 PM  
3 votes:

kronicfeld: Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.


FTFA: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a letter sent to the Russian minister of justice this week that the United States would not seek the death penalty against Edward J. Snowden, and would issue him a passport immediately so he could travel back to the United States.

The letter also offered reassurances that the United States would not torture Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor who faces criminal charges of disclosing classified information and has been hiding in an airport in Moscow in order to evade the American authorities.


"We believe these assurances eliminate these asserted grounds for Mr. Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee or granted asylum, temporary or otherwise," Mr. Holder said in the letter, which was sent to Justice Minister Aleksandr V. Konovalov.


So yes - you are correct.  Basically what the letter said is, "Okay, we won't do to him what we're famous for doing to people we hold without trial for years on end, under the blanket excuse that they're not real soldier in our delcared "War", so they don't have any protections against us.  But in this case, we won't.  SRSLY.  Pinky-swear, really, mean it.

So.... we're cool, right?"

Dear Russia:

Please don't listen to them, and please don't accept their legal side-stepping.  They intend to torture the everloving f*ck out of Edward Snowden, if in no other way than making the rest of his life a living hell in whatever prison they choose for him.  The US is not trustworthy, as their behavior in their little self-proclaimed "War on Terror" has proven over the last 12 years.  Stand up to them.

Love,

Benevolent Misanthrope
2013-07-26 03:10:06 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.


He's naked in Supermax.  And there are plenty of people complaining about it.
2013-07-26 02:39:07 PM  
2 votes:
While rendering suspects to secret CIA bases in places that  do torture.
2013-07-26 01:59:50 PM  
2 votes:
Can we stop talking about the disingenuous AW and get to legislating changes to USA PATRIOT already?
2013-07-26 01:52:29 PM  
2 votes:
Anymore.

The US doesn't officially torture prisoners anymore.
2013-07-26 12:11:04 PM  
2 votes:
That takes some cheek.
2013-07-26 06:05:14 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: MrSplifferton: Anti-psychotics are not torture. Living without them in a depressed suicidal state with no psychological treatment would be.

10/10. I bought it hook, line and sinker.

 Forcing anti-psychotics against someone's will for behavioral issues IS torture in it's most basic definition.  Ironically, you're against one form of treatment which is in your opinion torture, while promoting another form which is widely accepted as such.

MrSplifferton: He wasn't suicidal until he had spent months in solitary confinement in a military prison.

He's been saying he's going to kill himself since day 1.


Are you saying that having someone commited for a 5150 and treating them with anti psychotics is actually torture? By definition a 5150 is against their will and only invoked when they are a danger to themselves.

Instead of getting him psychological help they thought it would be better to leave him naked, psychotic, and in isolation for 8 months in Quantico.
2013-07-26 05:57:58 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Alphax: So, he's getting all his punishment in before his trial.

Cute.  He's suspected of espionage. That alone would get him special handling. He's also been a disciplinary nightmare, as well as threatens to commit suicide every few days.

MrSplifferton: My point is that they do not need to keep him naked for weeks on end to prevent him from killing himself.

He continually threatens to kill himself using his clothing.

MrSplifferton: If that was the only way to prevent people from killing themselves mental hospitals would look like nudist colonies.

No, they'd either just tie him down, or dope him up so full of anti-psychotics he'd drool on himself. Both are far more torturous than what is being done to him.


Right. Threatens suicide. Because what he's living with is a fate worse than death.

If that's 'normal' treatment of prisoners, we're far worse of a country than I thought.
2013-07-26 03:43:35 PM  
1 votes:

vygramul: Marcus Aurelius: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.

He's naked in Supermax.  And there are plenty of people complaining about it.

He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.

And fark him anyway and the distortions people use to manipulate public opinion to think this guy is anything short of a dishonest and dishonorable prick.


People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.

your view that traitors deserve torture for whatever reason is a valid belief for countries like Iran and north Korea.
2013-07-26 03:33:24 PM  
1 votes:

imontheinternet: hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.

Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.

Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.  A UN investigation came back with a report that called it torture.  Even if Russia does worse to its people, the report still serves as a legal basis for granting a claim of asylum under international law.  Source


Dude, damn near every inmate is in 23 hour isolation in Supermax. That's what they're known for. Manning is getting treated no different than anyone else.
2013-07-26 03:30:40 PM  
1 votes:
How I feel whenever Obama goes after whistleblowers and vocally opposes any legislative attempts to limit warrantless domestic espionage:
i.imgur.com
2013-07-26 03:28:34 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.

Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.


Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.  A UN investigation came back with a report that called it torture.  Even if Russia does worse to its people, the report still serves as a legal basis for granting a claim of asylum under international law.  Source
2013-07-26 03:25:46 PM  
1 votes:

vygramul: He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.


Nice job simplifying the issue and avoiding the truth. Tough to REALLY look at how he was treated, eh?
2013-07-26 03:24:38 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Tell us more about how Manning's a hero


I missed the part where he said Manning was a hero. He just pointed out the treatment Manning received, which was labled Cruel and Inhuman.

It's okay though, cuz you don't like what he did, right? So throw that strawman on to the pile!
2013-07-26 03:21:15 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Nemo's Brother: Look how Obama has treated Bradley Manning.

[i565.photobucket.com image 600x590]

Tell us more about how Manning's a hero. Specifically the part where he dumped thousands of documents that were compartmentalized/classified/NOFOR without having any knowledge of what was in them. Or how he dumped it to a NGO intelligence dump frequented by both terrorist groups and foreign intelligence services, under the guide of a foreign national, who then "Creatively edited" the information to his own ends.


The list of informers and translators was the big no-no
2013-07-26 03:15:46 PM  
1 votes:

safetycap: When you extradite your war criminals to The Hague for trial and execution life imprisonment whatever, then we can talk about the rule of law, political asylum, etc.


The Hague does not hand down death sentences. They are a party to the European Convention on Human Rights, which makes abolition of the death penalty for all crimes mandatory.
2013-07-26 02:56:07 PM  
1 votes:
Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.
2013-07-26 02:55:38 PM  
1 votes:

kbronsito: Russia: Excuse me we'd like to grant asylum for one of your citizens.
America: May I ask why?
Russia: For spite
America: Spite?
Russia: That's right. We don't care for your government
America: I don't think you can grant asylum for spite.
Russia: What do you mean?
America: Well if there was some problem with our justice system. If it were unsatisfactory in some way, then you could do it, but I'm afraid spite is not one of the acceptable conditions for asylum.


Is that a paraphrase of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry tries to return a jacket?
2013-07-26 02:55:35 PM  
1 votes:
Damn right we don't torture. This is AMERICA. Freedom is the word here. Due Process. Justice. Honor.


We contract that shiat out.
2013-07-26 02:26:13 PM  
1 votes:
We don't torture, but if we do, there are no consequences for those that did. It's a win-win.
2013-07-26 02:08:16 PM  
1 votes:
Russia: Excuse me we'd like to grant asylum for one of your citizens.
America: May I ask why?
Russia: For spite
America: Spite?
Russia: That's right. We don't care for your government
America: I don't think you can grant asylum for spite.
Russia: What do you mean?
America: Well if there was some problem with our justice system. If it were unsatisfactory in some way, then you could do it, but I'm afraid spite is not one of the acceptable conditions for asylum.
2013-07-26 01:51:37 PM  
1 votes:
Yeah. You lost that moral card with Extraordinary Rendition and outsourcing to people that DO torture people.

Ironic that none of that intelligence you gained really changed a damn thing, isn't it?
2013-07-26 01:51:08 PM  
1 votes:
Naked SuperMax solitary, of course, does not count as torture.  Good thing too, or the US would really be on low moral ground.
2013-07-26 01:34:57 PM  
1 votes:
www.starwarped.net
"That never happened. I was never here."
2013-07-26 12:45:51 PM  
1 votes:
They don't officially torture people.

It's just that both the Vice President and the President wrote books in which they said they did.
2013-07-26 12:29:12 PM  
1 votes:
Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.
 
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