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(The New York Times)   US informs Russia that since it doesn't officially torture or kill prisoners, Snowden has no claim to asylum   (nytimes.com) divider line 153
    More: Ironic, Russia, United States, political asylum, torture, prisoners  
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1873 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jul 2013 at 2:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 03:27:00 PM

hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.

Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.


Why should he, when you aren't even capable of a simple google search? Does your mother hold your mouth open and spit the food in too?
 
2013-07-26 03:27:41 PM

hardinparamedic: mediablitz: I missed the part where he said Manning was a hero. He just pointed out the treatment Manning received, which was labled Cruel and Inhuman.

It's okay though, cuz you don't like what he did, right? So throw that strawman on to the pile!

Please document what has been done to him that is "Cruel and Unusual".


It's well documented. Learn how to read. Jesus, are you THAT incapable of using the internet? Who dresses you?
 
2013-07-26 03:28:34 PM

hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.

Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.


Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.  A UN investigation came back with a report that called it torture.  Even if Russia does worse to its people, the report still serves as a legal basis for granting a claim of asylum under international law.  Source
 
2013-07-26 03:29:49 PM

mediablitz: Why should he, when you aren't even capable of a simple google search? Does your mother hold your mouth open and spit the food in too?


mediablitz: It's well documented. Learn how to read. Jesus, are you THAT incapable of using the internet? Who dresses you?


You're making a claim that Bradley Manning has been treated cruel and unusual. I asked you to lay out your claim, in that it flies in the face of what is factually known about the circumstances around the way he's been treated, including his history of suicidal ideations, refusal to follow orders of those in charge of him as a US Military Soldier, and purposeful stalling of a trial date through legal tactics and attempts to plea bargain while appealing to the public that his trial is being delayed.
 
2013-07-26 03:30:40 PM
How I feel whenever Obama goes after whistleblowers and vocally opposes any legislative attempts to limit warrantless domestic espionage:
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-26 03:32:43 PM

imontheinternet: Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.


He's accused of espionage. Why would they allow him to have uncontrolled contact with the outside. He's also a behavioral and mental health risk.
 
2013-07-26 03:33:24 PM

imontheinternet: hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.

Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.

Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.  A UN investigation came back with a report that called it torture.  Even if Russia does worse to its people, the report still serves as a legal basis for granting a claim of asylum under international law.  Source


Dude, damn near every inmate is in 23 hour isolation in Supermax. That's what they're known for. Manning is getting treated no different than anyone else.
 
2013-07-26 03:33:46 PM
I wonder what the government will do to him "unofficially". Wouldn't surprise me if they show him nine levels of hell before he's found dead in his jail cell one day.

They'll put him to the rack, and not just for what he did. The government needs to show other contractors what can happen to them if they play too liberally with Uncle Sam's data.

/Holder is less trustworthy than a Panamanian whore.
/Turning a prisoner over to him is as good as condoning torture.
 
2013-07-26 03:36:42 PM

stoli n coke: Dude, damn near every inmate is in 23 hour isolation in Supermax. That's what they're known for. Manning is getting treated no different than anyone else.


I'm not saying he is being treated differently.  I'm saying that a UN report characterized his treatment as torture, giving a legal basis for granting asylum to anyone who will be subjected to that treatment.
 
2013-07-26 03:40:10 PM

AeAe: The US absolutely tortures people, are you kidding me?


No we don't. We redefined what torture is so that out methods are now known as Enhanced interrogation'
 
2013-07-26 03:43:35 PM

vygramul: Marcus Aurelius: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.

He's naked in Supermax.  And there are plenty of people complaining about it.

He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.

And fark him anyway and the distortions people use to manipulate public opinion to think this guy is anything short of a dishonest and dishonorable prick.


People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.

your view that traitors deserve torture for whatever reason is a valid belief for countries like Iran and north Korea.
 
2013-07-26 03:48:15 PM

imontheinternet: I'm saying that a UN report characterized his treatment as torture


In fairness, the determination of torture is a pretty low bar:

"Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

So much of that is so subjective that you often end up with weird things like air-conditioners being 5 degrees too cold, or regular medical attention qualifying as 'sleep deprivation' which sometimes obscures serious indisputable physical torture.
 
2013-07-26 03:50:40 PM

BojanglesPaladin: imontheinternet: I'm saying that a UN report characterized his treatment as torture

In fairness, the determination of torture is a pretty low bar:

"Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

So much of that is so subjective that you often end up with weird things like air-conditioners being 5 degrees too cold, or regular medical attention qualifying as 'sleep deprivation' which sometimes obscures serious indisputable physical torture.


Since the bolded part is requisite, I'm pretty sure medical attention, or accidentally using an incorrect thermostat setting doesn't count.  Doing it on purpose to induce suffering does.  How is this hard?
 
2013-07-26 03:51:03 PM

MrSplifferton: People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.


Is being kept naked considered to be torture?
 
2013-07-26 03:53:23 PM

BojanglesPaladin: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning.

I don't see why. Manning was active military and subject to a different legal system.

Snowden is 100% guaranteed to get mirandized, A line of high profile pro-bono attorneys will be lined up to defend him, and his treatment will be the subject of intense, press-conference scrutiny.

If he truly is some sort of champion of free information, he will have the best platform possible from which to launch his 95 theses and preach his manifesto.

He's a public, internationally known, United States private citizen. He's going to be just fine. Sure, he might accidentally fall off a ledge while in prison, but let's be honest, if that IS going to happen, it will happen no matter where he goes.


The US Constitution applies to military persons.
 
2013-07-26 03:54:09 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrSplifferton: People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.

Is being kept naked considered to be torture?


Humiliation of prisoners is an acceptable practice? Keeping him nude is not required to prevent him from hurting himself, so other than humiliation why would they do it?
 
2013-07-26 03:54:42 PM

hardinparamedic: Nemo's Brother: Look how Obama has treated Bradley Manning.



Tell us more about how Manning's a hero. Specifically the part where he dumped thousands of documents that were compartmentalized/classified/NOFOR without having any knowledge of what was in them. Or how he dumped it to a NGO intelligence dump frequented by both terrorist groups and foreign intelligence services, under the guide of a foreign national, who then "Creatively edited" the information to his own ends.


Damn straight. What the government does should remain secret. Anyone who reveals this must die.

Caesar has spoken.
 
2013-07-26 03:56:28 PM

mcreadyblue: Damn straight. What the government does should remain secret. Anyone who reveals this must die.

Caesar has spoken.


Wow. That was stupider than the plot of Sharknado. And not nearly as funny.
 
2013-07-26 04:03:30 PM

BojanglesPaladin: imontheinternet: I'm saying that a UN report characterized his treatment as torture

In fairness, the determination of torture is a pretty low bar:

"Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

So much of that is so subjective that you often end up with weird things like air-conditioners being 5 degrees too cold, or regular medical attention qualifying as 'sleep deprivation' which sometimes obscures serious indisputable physical torture.


11 hour a day isolation and having to sleep naked are quite a bit worse than those examples, but I take your point.
 
2013-07-26 04:09:12 PM

ikanreed: Since the bolded part is requisite,


It's not. Note the rest where it says "OR for any reason based on discrimination of any kind."

My point is that a definition that relies on the subjective assessment of the motivation of the actors is prone to problems of interpretation. If you've ever been in a hospital under medical care, you know that you often get woken up for one reason ot another every few hours, which is sleep deprivation, though unintentional. A prisoner under medical supervision, would likewise be woken up at regular intervals and that too, would be sleep deprivation.

But we could not say objectively that one was intended to be torture because it happened in a prison. Maybe it was. Maybe not. but a too broad definition can lead to false positives.

As an example, I was once taken into custody on a warrant for expired registration. All in all, I spent 3 days in county. During that entire time I was never afforded a place to sleep, having to find a piece of floor in a crowded room with 40 or more other people. I was fed two pieces of bread with bologna or applesauce in between and had to drink from a fountain on top of the toilet by filling the bologna wrapper. With only a threadbare prison jumpsuit and cold concrete, it was freezing the whole time. No cots, no beds, no chairs, and not even a bench most of the time. Just concrete holding tank after holding tank. There was one open toilet in each room, and in some of them it was clogged and full of feces and urine. Every 3 hours the guards would arrive yelling the name of those who were being released, or moving us on to the next holding cell meaning that you never got more than about two hours of sleep at a time, around the clock for days. So I was sleep deprived, underfed, kept in unsanitary conditions, and in unsuitable temperatures.

It was a torturous experience, but at no point do I think I was being tortured.

Of course, If I was a terrorism suspect, and I told that exact same story, it would be clear evidence of being tortured, and a UN investigative team would dutifully report it as such.

I say that to say this: I think that agencies like the UN are being counterproductive by defining what constitutes torture too broadly, and dilute the level of outrage and urgency of action when pretty much every country in the world is determined to be involved in some form of torture in its treatment of prisoners.
 
2013-07-26 04:10:19 PM
The USSR didn't "officially" torture, and also "officially" HAD due process too!

Just be sure not to be detained without the privilege of correspondence (AKA: Death by government without due process)
 
2013-07-26 04:12:36 PM

mcreadyblue: The US Constitution applies to military persons


And? The Military Court system is fundamentally different, though constitutional. What exactly, is your point?
 
2013-07-26 04:13:52 PM

dynomutt: The USSR didn't "officially" torture, and also "officially" HAD due process too!

Just be sure not to be detained without the privilege of correspondence (AKA: Death by government without due process)


Call me when the US drags Manning down to the file archives and shoots him in the head, or mutliates him and dopes him up with psychotropic drugs.
 
2013-07-26 04:15:50 PM

BojanglesPaladin: It was a torturous experience, but at no point do I think I was being tortured.


Maybe because they weren't trying to extract a confession from you, or punish you with any of those factors.  And you knew you'd get a trial.  And you know, you weren't a "terrorist", like I'm sure you're so confident someone in Guantanamo is.  Can you actually tell me what any of them did?
 
2013-07-26 04:17:25 PM

mcreadyblue: Damn straight. What the government does should remain secret. Anyone who reveals this must die.

Caesar has spoken.


Actually, no. I'm really curious about this statement. If you're just trolling to be trolling, I can understand that. But do you honestly believe there is no place for military or political operations that are kept out of the public eye in our world? Or that there is no reason/need for secrecy of diplomatic or military communications?
 
2013-07-26 04:17:41 PM

hardinparamedic: dynomutt: The USSR didn't "officially" torture, and also "officially" HAD due process too!

Just be sure not to be detained without the privilege of correspondence (AKA: Death by government without due process)

Call me when the US drags Manning down to the file archives and shoots him in the head, or mutliates him and dopes him up with psychotropic drugs.


We're not horrible evil monsters, because I just invented something slightly more terrible we could do.  Our country is terrible, and you're terrible for defending the terrible things it does.
 
2013-07-26 04:20:43 PM

ikanreed: Our country is terrible, and you're terrible for defending the terrible things it does.


I can live with you calling me a terrible person because I'm really OK with an espionage suspect who continually threatens suicide having his outside world access limited, and the tools for suicide taken away from him while being kept in a private, thermally neutral environment.

Whatever gets you through the day.
 
2013-07-26 04:22:41 PM
images.encyclopediadramatica.se
 
2013-07-26 04:25:38 PM

ikanreed: Maybe because they weren't trying to extract a confession from you, or punish you with any of those factors.


I believe we are talking about the treatment of Manning and Snowden here more than Gitmo.

Which is kinda my point. GITMO with beatings, waterboarding, and many other alleged, actual tortures (including the forced feedings currently) is honest-to-god torture. Not so clear that Snowden would face anything remotely similar.

Spending most of the day alone with your pecker out is certainly unpleasant, but nearly the same thing. "The thermostat is kept too low" would not be grouped with "They beat me unconscious and hooked my testicles to a car battery".
 
2013-07-26 04:26:47 PM

hardinparamedic: imontheinternet: Manning is kept in 23 hour isolation in a Supermax federal prison.

He's accused of espionage. Why would they allow him to have uncontrolled contact with the outside. He's also a behavioral and mental health risk.


Has he been convicted of anything?
 
2013-07-26 04:28:35 PM

hardinparamedic: But do you honestly believe there is no place for military or political operations that are kept out of the public eye in our world? Or that there is no reason/need for secrecy of diplomatic or military communications?


Excluded Middle, gotta love the classics. It maximizes agitation while nicely sidestepping the notion the use of 'government secrecy' exploded exponentially over the last decade.
9/10
 
2013-07-26 04:30:33 PM

mediablitz: vygramul: He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.

Nice job simplifying the issue and avoiding the truth. Tough to REALLY look at how he was treated, eh?


I suppose I could just go with what I *JUST KNOW* is true and apply credibility based on confirmation bias, but that wouldn't be very objective of me.

The only reason I'm even willing to comment on that part is because Snowden's lawyer admitted to the joke. Stupid move.
 
2013-07-26 04:31:35 PM

neenerist: Excluded Middle, gotta love the classics. It maximizes agitation while nicely sidestepping the notion the use of 'government secrecy' exploded exponentially over the last decade.
9/10


It's cute that you think I'm trolling, but I'm being completely serious. There are people that actually think that as I stated.

Alphax: Has he been convicted of anything?


He pled guilty to 10 of the 22 counts against him in February. The Trial for other 12 counts began on June 3, and they just finished closing arguments. Ironically, his own legal team has delayed the trial for years by working on plea bargains, and then appealing to the public at large that the Military is the one doing it.
 
2013-07-26 04:32:33 PM

MrSplifferton: People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.

your view that traitors deserve torture for whatever reason is a valid belief for countries like Iran and north Korea.


First off, people ARE kept naked if they are capable of using their own clothing to create a noose.

Second, nice strawman. I never said they should be tortured.
 
2013-07-26 04:38:34 PM

vygramul: Second, nice strawman. I never said they should be tortured.


i36.tinypic.com

You're dealing with people of the land, my friend. Complex beliefs that don't jive exactly with what they think automatically make you an evil person who supported the practices of Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet et all.
 
2013-07-26 04:55:35 PM

vygramul: MrSplifferton: People in mental hospitals are a danger to themselves and others, but they are not kept naked.

your view that traitors deserve torture for whatever reason is a valid belief for countries like Iran and north Korea.

First off, people ARE kept naked if they are capable of using their own clothing to create a noose.

Second, nice strawman. I never said they should be tortured.


You said 'fark him anyway...' which I took to imply that even if you thought it was torture you wouldn't care because he's a traitor.

I've seen many mental institutes yet I have never seen one keep people naked for weeks or even just days due to suicidal behavior. Restrained, yes, but not held isolated and naked in their rooms.
 
2013-07-26 04:59:36 PM

hardinparamedic: dynomutt: The USSR didn't "officially" torture, and also "officially" HAD due process too!

Just be sure not to be detained without the privilege of correspondence (AKA: Death by government without due process)

Call me when the US drags Manning down to the file archives and shoots him in the head, or mutliates him and dopes him up with psychotropic drugs.


Here is another one of your posts that makes me think you don't give a shiat about torture to accused traitors, as long as they don't put a bullet through his head.
 
2013-07-26 05:01:01 PM

MrSplifferton: hardinparamedic: dynomutt: The USSR didn't "officially" torture, and also "officially" HAD due process too!

Just be sure not to be detained without the privilege of correspondence (AKA: Death by government without due process)

Call me when the US drags Manning down to the file archives and shoots him in the head, or mutliates him and dopes him up with psychotropic drugs.

Here is another one of your posts that makes me think you don't give a shiat about torture to accused traitors, as long as they don't put a bullet through his head.


Crap wrong poster

you guys are all stalin hitlers to me anyway
 
2013-07-26 05:12:22 PM

MrSplifferton: I've seen many mental institutes yet I have never seen one keep people naked for weeks or even just days due to suicidal behavior. Restrained, yes, but not held isolated and naked in their rooms.


Shall we talk about the wonderful conditions in mental health facilities and how completely not-torture it is to strap people to beds for days and weeks? But as long as they are in a hospital gown, it's OK?

Since you have seen many mental institutions, you are aware of "the use of seclusion and restraints in behavioral health facilities"? Common practice, even in prisons (though many advocate to have it eliminated).

So naked and unrestrained is torture, but strapped to a chair in a gown is not?

/I know which one I would prefer.
//naked and unrestrained is how I spend my weekends.
 
2013-07-26 05:27:06 PM
Section 31: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

article IV section 2 paragraph 2

2: A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

---------------

What war has Congress declared?   no war, no treason.
 
2013-07-26 05:29:24 PM

MrSplifferton: Here is another one of your posts that makes me think you don't give a shiat about torture to accused traitors, as long as they don't put a bullet through his head.


Making someone who is threatening to kill themselves with their clothing not wear it is not torture. Sorry. No dice.

madgordy: What war has Congress declared?   no war, no treason.


He's not being charged with treason. He's being charged with espionage. And if you want to get pedantic about declared war.
 
2013-07-26 05:32:38 PM

madgordy: What war has Congress declared? no war, no treason.


Surely you are not serious? Treason does not require a state of war.
 
2013-07-26 05:33:42 PM

hardinparamedic: neenerist: Excluded Middle, gotta love the classics. It maximizes agitation while nicely sidestepping the notion the use of 'government secrecy' exploded exponentially over the last decade.
9/10

It's cute that you think I'm trolling, but I'm being completely serious. There are people that actually think that as I stated.

Alphax: Has he been convicted of anything?

He pled guilty to 10 of the 22 counts against him in February. The Trial for other 12 counts began on June 3, and they just finished closing arguments. Ironically, his own legal team has delayed the trial for years by working on plea bargains, and then appealing to the public at large that the Military is the one doing it.


So, he's getting all his punishment in before his trial.
 
2013-07-26 05:35:14 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrSplifferton: I've seen many mental institutes yet I have never seen one keep people naked for weeks or even just days due to suicidal behavior. Restrained, yes, but not held isolated and naked in their rooms.

Shall we talk about the wonderful conditions in mental health facilities and how completely not-torture it is to strap people to beds for days and weeks? But as long as they are in a hospital gown, it's OK?

Since you have seen many mental institutions, you are aware of "the use of seclusion and restraints in behavioral health facilities"? Common practice, even in prisons (though many advocate to have it eliminated).

So naked and unrestrained is torture, but strapped to a chair in a gown is not?

/I know which one I would prefer.
//naked and unrestrained is how I spend my weekends.


Its the purpose that constitutes torture. My point is that they do not need to keep him naked for weeks on end to prevent him from killing himself.

If that was the only way to prevent people from killing themselves mental hospitals would look like nudist colonies.

so then why are they doing that? If its as a form of punishment then absolutely 100% torture.
 
2013-07-26 05:40:07 PM

Alphax: So, he's getting all his punishment in before his trial.


Cute.  He's suspected of espionage. That alone would get him special handling. He's also been a disciplinary nightmare, as well as threatens to commit suicide every few days.

MrSplifferton: My point is that they do not need to keep him naked for weeks on end to prevent him from killing himself.


He continually threatens to kill himself using his clothing.

MrSplifferton: If that was the only way to prevent people from killing themselves mental hospitals would look like nudist colonies.


No, they'd either just tie him down, or dope him up so full of anti-psychotics he'd drool on himself. Both are far more torturous than what is being done to him.
 
2013-07-26 05:44:36 PM

hardinparamedic: Alphax: So, he's getting all his punishment in before his trial.

Cute.  He's suspected of espionage. That alone would get him special handling. He's also been a disciplinary nightmare, as well as threatens to commit suicide every few days.

MrSplifferton: My point is that they do not need to keep him naked for weeks on end to prevent him from killing himself.

He continually threatens to kill himself using his clothing.

MrSplifferton: If that was the only way to prevent people from killing themselves mental hospitals would look like nudist colonies.

No, they'd either just tie him down, or dope him up so full of anti-psychotics he'd drool on himself. Both are far more torturous than what is being done to him.


Anti-psychotics are not torture. Living without them in a depressed suicidal state with no psychological treatment would be.

He wasn't suicidal until he had spent months in solitary confinement in a military prison. Solitary confinement for extended prisoners is also considered torture by the un.
 
2013-07-26 05:50:15 PM

MrSplifferton: Anti-psychotics are not torture. Living without them in a depressed suicidal state with no psychological treatment would be.


10/10. I bought it hook, line and sinker.

 Forcing anti-psychotics against someone's will for behavioral issues IS torture in it's most basic definition.  Ironically, you're against one form of treatment which is in your opinion torture, while promoting another form which is widely accepted as such.

MrSplifferton: He wasn't suicidal until he had spent months in solitary confinement in a military prison.


He's been saying he's going to kill himself since day 1.
 
2013-07-26 05:50:43 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-26 05:57:58 PM

hardinparamedic: Alphax: So, he's getting all his punishment in before his trial.

Cute.  He's suspected of espionage. That alone would get him special handling. He's also been a disciplinary nightmare, as well as threatens to commit suicide every few days.

MrSplifferton: My point is that they do not need to keep him naked for weeks on end to prevent him from killing himself.

He continually threatens to kill himself using his clothing.

MrSplifferton: If that was the only way to prevent people from killing themselves mental hospitals would look like nudist colonies.

No, they'd either just tie him down, or dope him up so full of anti-psychotics he'd drool on himself. Both are far more torturous than what is being done to him.


Right. Threatens suicide. Because what he's living with is a fate worse than death.

If that's 'normal' treatment of prisoners, we're far worse of a country than I thought.
 
2013-07-26 06:00:46 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kronicfeld: Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.

FTFA: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a letter sent to the Russian minister of justice this week that the United States would not seek the death penalty against Edward J. Snowden, and would issue him a passport immediately so he could travel back to the United States.

The letter also offered reassurances that the United States would not torture Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor who faces criminal charges of disclosing classified information and has been hiding in an airport in Moscow in order to evade the American authorities.


"We believe these assurances eliminate these asserted grounds for Mr. Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee or granted asylum, temporary or otherwise," Mr. Holder said in the letter, which was sent to Justice Minister Aleksandr V. Konovalov.

So yes - you are correct.  Basically what the letter said is, "Okay, we won't do to him what we're famous for doing to people we hold without trial for years on end, under the blanket excuse that they're not real soldier in our delcared "War", so they don't have any protections against us.  But in this case, we won't.  SRSLY.  Pinky-swear, really, mean it.

So.... we're cool, right?"

Dear Russia:

Please don't listen to them, and please don't accept their legal side-stepping.  They intend to torture the everloving f*ck out of Edward Snowden, if in no other way than making the rest of his life a living hell in whatever prison they choose for him.  The US is not trustworthy, as their behavior in their little self-proclaimed "War on Terror" has proven over the last 12 years.  Stand up to them.

Love,

Benevolent Misanthrope


No matter how terrible the US government is, it's only amateur hour compared to the Russian government. Pooty-poot pulling this is pretty rich; you know he doesn't give a damn and is trolling the US. Anyone who distrusts the US government but believes one single word from the Russians is an idiot.
 
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