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(The New York Times)   US informs Russia that since it doesn't officially torture or kill prisoners, Snowden has no claim to asylum   (nytimes.com) divider line 153
    More: Ironic, Russia, United States, political asylum, torture, prisoners  
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1873 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jul 2013 at 2:47 PM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 12:11:04 PM
That takes some cheek.
 
2013-07-26 12:15:06 PM
Bad boys bad boys
whats russia gonna do
whats russia gonna do
when we export you
 
2013-07-26 12:20:33 PM

naughtyrev: That takes some cheek.


No joke.  Jesus Hussein Kreist, that's rich.
 
2013-07-26 12:29:12 PM
Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.
 
2013-07-26 12:41:39 PM

kronicfeld: Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.


FTFA: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a letter sent to the Russian minister of justice this week that the United States would not seek the death penalty against Edward J. Snowden, and would issue him a passport immediately so he could travel back to the United States.

The letter also offered reassurances that the United States would not torture Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor who faces criminal charges of disclosing classified information and has been hiding in an airport in Moscow in order to evade the American authorities.


"We believe these assurances eliminate these asserted grounds for Mr. Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee or granted asylum, temporary or otherwise," Mr. Holder said in the letter, which was sent to Justice Minister Aleksandr V. Konovalov.


So yes - you are correct.  Basically what the letter said is, "Okay, we won't do to him what we're famous for doing to people we hold without trial for years on end, under the blanket excuse that they're not real soldier in our delcared "War", so they don't have any protections against us.  But in this case, we won't.  SRSLY.  Pinky-swear, really, mean it.

So.... we're cool, right?"

Dear Russia:

Please don't listen to them, and please don't accept their legal side-stepping.  They intend to torture the everloving f*ck out of Edward Snowden, if in no other way than making the rest of his life a living hell in whatever prison they choose for him.  The US is not trustworthy, as their behavior in their little self-proclaimed "War on Terror" has proven over the last 12 years.  Stand up to them.

Love,

Benevolent Misanthrope
 
2013-07-26 12:44:14 PM
He'll just get renditioned to somewhere that does.
 
2013-07-26 12:45:51 PM
They don't officially torture people.

It's just that both the Vice President and the President wrote books in which they said they did.
 
2013-07-26 01:34:57 PM
www.starwarped.net
"That never happened. I was never here."
 
2013-07-26 01:48:43 PM
www.logarchism.com

Here is an American citizen tortured by the US government.
 
2013-07-26 01:51:08 PM
Naked SuperMax solitary, of course, does not count as torture.  Good thing too, or the US would really be on low moral ground.
 
2013-07-26 01:51:37 PM
Yeah. You lost that moral card with Extraordinary Rendition and outsourcing to people that DO torture people.

Ironic that none of that intelligence you gained really changed a damn thing, isn't it?
 
2013-07-26 01:52:29 PM
Anymore.

The US doesn't officially torture prisoners anymore.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:50 PM
Can we stop talking about the disingenuous AW and get to legislating changes to USA PATRIOT already?
 
2013-07-26 02:08:16 PM
Russia: Excuse me we'd like to grant asylum for one of your citizens.
America: May I ask why?
Russia: For spite
America: Spite?
Russia: That's right. We don't care for your government
America: I don't think you can grant asylum for spite.
Russia: What do you mean?
America: Well if there was some problem with our justice system. If it were unsatisfactory in some way, then you could do it, but I'm afraid spite is not one of the acceptable conditions for asylum.
 
2013-07-26 02:26:13 PM
We don't torture, but if we do, there are no consequences for those that did. It's a win-win.
 
2013-07-26 02:38:02 PM
"Officially"

/nudge, nudge, wink, wink
 
2013-07-26 02:39:07 PM
While rendering suspects to secret CIA bases in places that  do torture.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:27 PM
"shiat? G-Bay!  Bet you had to eat a cockmeat sandwich, eh?"

Try again, Ruskies.
 
2013-07-26 02:50:21 PM
I really didn't follow the headline until I realized that "it" was referring to the US and not Russia. Was I the only one who parsed it wrong?

Makes more sense now.  Carry on...
 
2013-07-26 02:54:10 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "Officially"

/nudge, nudge, wink, wink


came here to post that.
 
2013-07-26 02:55:35 PM
Damn right we don't torture. This is AMERICA. Freedom is the word here. Due Process. Justice. Honor.


We contract that shiat out.
 
2013-07-26 02:55:38 PM

kbronsito: Russia: Excuse me we'd like to grant asylum for one of your citizens.
America: May I ask why?
Russia: For spite
America: Spite?
Russia: That's right. We don't care for your government
America: I don't think you can grant asylum for spite.
Russia: What do you mean?
America: Well if there was some problem with our justice system. If it were unsatisfactory in some way, then you could do it, but I'm afraid spite is not one of the acceptable conditions for asylum.


Is that a paraphrase of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry tries to return a jacket?
 
2013-07-26 02:56:07 PM
Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.
 
2013-07-26 02:57:17 PM
But, remember, in 2007, we were promised that our indefinite detention and torture would never come back to bite us as far as moral authority goes.  Never.
 
2013-07-26 02:58:27 PM

Kome: kbronsito: Russia: Excuse me we'd like to grant asylum for one of your citizens.
America: May I ask why?
Russia: For spite
America: Spite?
Russia: That's right. We don't care for your government
America: I don't think you can grant asylum for spite.
Russia: What do you mean?
America: Well if there was some problem with our justice system. If it were unsatisfactory in some way, then you could do it, but I'm afraid spite is not one of the acceptable conditions for asylum.

Is that a paraphrase of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry tries to return a jacket?


Yes.
 
2013-07-26 02:58:40 PM
So now we throw all treaties and trade agreements out the window and impose economic sanctions on Russia, right? Just like the Senate Appropriations Committee was so loudly threatening yesterday? Fark all diplomacy and economic realities, just jump right to the sanctions?
 
2013-07-26 02:58:41 PM

qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.


That's because we complained and that was the end of our options.  It's not like we had elections were candidates were actually saying "let's let Manning go".  I would've voted for them, if they had.
 
2013-07-26 03:01:47 PM

ikanreed: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.

That's because we complained and that was the end of our options.  It's not like we had elections were candidates were actually saying "let's let Manning go".  I would've voted for them, if they had.


Sure. It's just funny to see people in a tizzy because Snowden might be arrested and kept in solitary while ignoring Manning.
 
2013-07-26 03:04:41 PM
Obviously the renditions that we did to Syria for their special expertise in such matters has gained them enough insurance to keep the US from overtly supporting the downfall of that government.  I'm sure there are folks in that country who could tell some hilarious tales of people being "questioned" by their security services.
 
2013-07-26 03:05:02 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kronicfeld: Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.

FTFA: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a letter sent to the Russian minister of justice this week that the United States would not seek the death penalty against Edward J. Snowden, and would issue him a passport immediately so he could travel back to the United States.

The letter also offered reassurances that the United States would not torture Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor who faces criminal charges of disclosing classified information and has been hiding in an airport in Moscow in order to evade the American authorities.


"We believe these assurances eliminate these asserted grounds for Mr. Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee or granted asylum, temporary or otherwise," Mr. Holder said in the letter, which was sent to Justice Minister Aleksandr V. Konovalov.

So yes - you are correct.  Basically what the letter said is, "Okay, we won't do to him what we're famous for doing to people we hold without trial for years on end, under the blanket excuse that they're not real soldier in our delcared "War", so they don't have any protections against us.  But in this case, we won't.  SRSLY.  Pinky-swear, really, mean it.

So.... we're cool, right?"

Dear Russia:

Please don't listen to them, and please don't accept their legal side-stepping.  They intend to torture the everloving f*ck out of Edward Snowden, if in no other way than making the rest of his life a living hell in whatever prison they choose for him.  The US is not trustworthy, as their behavior in their little self-proclaimed "War on Terror" has proven over the last 12 years.  Stand up to them.

Love,

Benevolent Misanthrope



The U.S. is not trustworthy, but a country with a president who looks and behaves like a real-life Bond villain with a history of disappearing people to Siberian prisons forever is trustworthy? For all we know, Putin has a sable cage named "Asylum" that he's ready to throw Snowflake into.

I don't think you're going to be able to play to their emotions implying how horrible torture is.
 
2013-07-26 03:06:24 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Anymore.

The US doesn't officially torture prisoners anymore.


But apparently we will still execute them, although it's rare at the federal level:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:US_executions
 
2013-07-26 03:06:58 PM

Aarontology: He'll just get renditioned to somewhere that does.


Like Russia.
 
2013-07-26 03:07:12 PM
Dear America

When you extradite your war criminals to The Hague for trial and execution life imprisonment whatever, then we can talk about the rule of law, political asylum, etc.

i651.photobucket.com

xxoo,
Russia
 
2013-07-26 03:07:24 PM
One man's torture is another man's light tickling.
 
2013-07-26 03:07:59 PM

qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning.


I don't see why. Manning was active military and subject to a different legal system.

Snowden is 100% guaranteed to get mirandized, A line of high profile pro-bono attorneys will be lined up to defend him, and his treatment will be the subject of intense, press-conference scrutiny.

If he truly is some sort of champion of free information, he will have the best platform possible from which to launch his 95 theses and preach his manifesto.

He's a public, internationally known, United States private citizen. He's going to be just fine. Sure, he might accidentally fall off a ledge while in prison, but let's be honest, if that IS going to happen, it will happen no matter where he goes.
 
2013-07-26 03:08:39 PM

ikanreed: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.

That's because we complained and that was the end of our options.  It's not like we had elections were candidates were actually saying "let's let Manning go".  I would've voted for them, if they had.


Good thing, then, that no such moron ran for office.
 
2013-07-26 03:10:06 PM

qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.


He's naked in Supermax.  And there are plenty of people complaining about it.
 
2013-07-26 03:14:36 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kronicfeld: Except the headline is not what the U.S. actually said.

FTFA: Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a letter sent to the Russian minister of justice this week that the United States would not seek the death penalty against Edward J. Snowden, and would issue him a passport immediately so he could travel back to the United States.

The letter also offered reassurances that the United States would not torture Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor who faces criminal charges of disclosing classified information and has been hiding in an airport in Moscow in order to evade the American authorities.


"We believe these assurances eliminate these asserted grounds for Mr. Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee or granted asylum, temporary or otherwise," Mr. Holder said in the letter, which was sent to Justice Minister Aleksandr V. Konovalov.

So yes - you are correct.  Basically what the letter said is, "Okay, we won't do to him what we're famous for doing to people we hold without trial for years on end, under the blanket excuse that they're not real soldier in our delcared "War", so they don't have any protections against us.  But in this case, we won't.  SRSLY.  Pinky-swear, really, mean it.

So.... we're cool, right?"

Dear Russia:

Please don't listen to them, and please don't accept their legal side-stepping.  They intend to torture the everloving f*ck out of Edward Snowden, if in no other way than making the rest of his life a living hell in whatever prison they choose for him.  The US is not trustworthy, as their behavior in their little self-proclaimed "War on Terror" has proven over the last 12 years.  Stand up to them.

Love,

Benevolent Misanthrope



Look how Obama has treated Bradley Manning.   I hope Snowden does get asylum.
 
2013-07-26 03:15:46 PM

safetycap: When you extradite your war criminals to The Hague for trial and execution life imprisonment whatever, then we can talk about the rule of law, political asylum, etc.


The Hague does not hand down death sentences. They are a party to the European Convention on Human Rights, which makes abolition of the death penalty for all crimes mandatory.
 
2013-07-26 03:17:40 PM
The US absolutely tortures people, are you kidding me?
 
2013-07-26 03:17:54 PM

Nemo's Brother: Look how Obama has treated Bradley Manning.


i565.photobucket.com

Tell us more about how Manning's a hero. Specifically the part where he dumped thousands of documents that were compartmentalized/classified/NOFOR without having any knowledge of what was in them. Or how he dumped it to a NGO intelligence dump frequented by both terrorist groups and foreign intelligence services, under the guide of a foreign national, who then "Creatively edited" the information to his own ends.
 
2013-07-26 03:21:15 PM

hardinparamedic: Nemo's Brother: Look how Obama has treated Bradley Manning.

[i565.photobucket.com image 600x590]

Tell us more about how Manning's a hero. Specifically the part where he dumped thousands of documents that were compartmentalized/classified/NOFOR without having any knowledge of what was in them. Or how he dumped it to a NGO intelligence dump frequented by both terrorist groups and foreign intelligence services, under the guide of a foreign national, who then "Creatively edited" the information to his own ends.


The list of informers and translators was the big no-no
 
2013-07-26 03:21:26 PM

Tigger: They don't officially torture people.

It's just that both the Vice President and the President wrote books in which they said they did.


We had a non-partisan committee say we did.
 
2013-07-26 03:21:33 PM

Marcus Aurelius: qorkfiend: Sure. Snowden would probably be treated roughly the same as Bradley Manning. I don't see many people complaining about Manning's current treatment, so surely there's little cause to complain about how Snowden might be treated.

He's naked in Supermax.  And there are plenty of people complaining about it.


He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.

And fark him anyway and the distortions people use to manipulate public opinion to think this guy is anything short of a dishonest and dishonorable prick.
 
2013-07-26 03:23:28 PM

ShadowKamui: The list of informers and translators was the big no-no


Pretty much, IIRC, what the Government has built their case against him around. The diplomatic cables were embarrassing but everyone already knew that was happening. "Collateral Damage" was damning enough even without Assange playing Gobbels with it. But he negligently endangered people and pretty much was on record as saying he didn't give two shiats about it.
 
2013-07-26 03:23:59 PM
Russia has cover.  Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.
 
2013-07-26 03:24:38 PM

hardinparamedic: Tell us more about how Manning's a hero


I missed the part where he said Manning was a hero. He just pointed out the treatment Manning received, which was labled Cruel and Inhuman.

It's okay though, cuz you don't like what he did, right? So throw that strawman on to the pile!
 
2013-07-26 03:25:14 PM

imontheinternet: Bradley Manning's treatment has been denounced as torture by the UN.


Please document how Manning has been treated differently than any other prisoner who leaked high value information to a foreign national, or has threatened suicide.

I'm curious to know.
 
2013-07-26 03:25:46 PM

vygramul: He WAS naked in a brig because he "joked" about committing suicide. That's like joking about bombs while going through TSA. If you're stupid enough to do that, you get what you deserve.


Nice job simplifying the issue and avoiding the truth. Tough to REALLY look at how he was treated, eh?
 
2013-07-26 03:25:52 PM

mediablitz: I missed the part where he said Manning was a hero. He just pointed out the treatment Manning received, which was labled Cruel and Inhuman.

It's okay though, cuz you don't like what he did, right? So throw that strawman on to the pile!


Please document what has been done to him that is "Cruel and Unusual".
 
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