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(The Atlantic Wire)   HBO's "Game of Thrones" is running out of George R.R. Martin material to adapt, so network sends him message: Keep writing, otherwise we'll have to produce some gratuitous sex and violence episodes   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 266
    More: Obvious, HBO, D.B. Weiss, David Benioff, violence  
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5722 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Jul 2013 at 1:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



266 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-26 11:46:33 AM  
this would be the perfect situation to end a series way they ended the Sopranos.
 
2013-07-26 11:48:05 AM  
They should just take it where it ought to be taken even if George R. R. Martin doesn't get there first: With Hot Pie on the Iron Throne.
 
2013-07-26 11:59:56 AM  
Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.
 
2013-07-26 12:00:45 PM  
FTFA: The problem has always been that Martin hasn't yet written the final two books in the seven-book series the show is based on. And he's not terribly fast at writing them: the five books so far in the series have been published over 15 years; the television show has covered three of those books in three years.

*adjusts nerd glasses*

Uh, technically, they have finished 2 1/2 books in 3 years. The fourth season will cover the second half of the third book.

Now, if you will excuse me ... I have to organize my pocket protectors.
 
2013-07-26 12:11:26 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.


To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.
 
2013-07-26 12:13:21 PM  

gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.


They'll just mash 4 and 5 together - they happen mostly simultaneously anyhow, so there's no real impact except for people who are trying to read the books and aren't caught up .
 
2013-07-26 12:21:36 PM  

gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.


A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.
 
2013-07-26 12:21:39 PM  

gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.


I figure they'll cover Feast and Dance at the same time, probably break the books into no fewer than three seasons.
 
2013-07-26 12:22:55 PM  
I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons
 
2013-07-26 12:23:24 PM  

naughtyrev: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

They'll just mash 4 and 5 together - they happen mostly simultaneously anyhow, so there's no real impact except for people who are trying to read the books and aren't caught up .



Yes... I read that they will mix 4 and 5 together into two seasons, since the events in those books happen at the same time.
 
2013-07-26 12:24:42 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons


I don't think he knows where to go, next. Or how to end it.
 
2013-07-26 12:29:01 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons


I think that's one side of things, but the Iron Throne is certainly being fought over, but the real combatants are Littlefinger and Varys - the rest of the people are their pawns.
 
2013-07-26 12:29:27 PM  
If you want George to write faster, then stop paying him any attention until he's done writing.

With this guy's schedule, who has time to write stuff?
 
2013-07-26 12:30:36 PM  
I would like to see a couple of episodes featuring different food recipes and baking demonstrations. Think about all the fascinating things you'll learn about bread!

Mmmm.
 
2013-07-26 12:34:06 PM  

HawgWild: Uh, technically, they have finished 2 1/2 books in 3 years. The fourth season will cover the second half of the third book.

Now, if you will excuse me ... I have to organize my pocket protectors.


I need you to show your math. Two of the book run side by side but on different continents. The show is jumping back and forth really well so I dont think they are going to spend one season following Daenerys and then one season on the Wall/Kings Landing. So really that eliminates one whole book.

But I like how they do sex and violence so I'm ok with this.
img33.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-26 12:39:51 PM  

HawgWild: Uh, technically, they have finished 2 1/2 books in 3 years. The fourth season will cover the second half of the third book.

Now, if you will excuse me ... I have to organize my pocket protectors.


Was going to say, there's a ton of major shiat they haven't covered from book 3.

Add that onto books 4 and 5, you've got 3 more 10-episode seasons easily, which would be airing until at least 2016.
Even if Martin hasn't finished book 6 by then, he'd very likely have enough of it done to finish the scripts to start filming GoT season 7 in 2016, airing in 2017...

But, I guess I could see being worried that he won't have enough of the final book done by 2017 to start filming GoT season 8.

So, prepare thyself for Game of Thrones season 7.5... Ye Olde Clips shows!

//could also drag out books 4, 5, and the last part of book 3 to be more than 3 seasons
//a full episode would be Tyrion muttering himself about where the whores go and his crossbow trick
 
2013-07-26 12:42:41 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons


Well, sorta. The grand arc here is the uniting all the banners of Westeros under one authority, maybe into a new nation, in time to take on the existential threat to all of them posed by the white walkers.

Then again, knowing Martin it may well be that the arc will be deepening civil war blinding everyone to the real threat until its too late, with the white walkers taking advantage of the chaos to wipe them all out.

The last half of the final book will just be 900 pages of white walkers shambling around the broken remains of civilization.
 
2013-07-26 12:53:04 PM  
The problem I have with all shows really is that they can't let them die. So instead of letting them die or end they turn into crap like that stupid island TV show.. can't remember the name. Very interesting first season then downhill from there. I wish someone would do a 1 or 2 season show and END IT. Maybe have an overall theme for the world in which it's created and then maybe have an entirely new single season or dual season and END IT.

Anyways.. this is why I don't watch TV. I can't watch Game of Thrones even though George RR Martin is a good friend of my moms and I used to chill with him at Sci Fi conventions when I was a kid.. I can't because I know the show will eventually turn into a spiraling whirlpool of toilet juice.
 
2013-07-26 12:53:35 PM  
Am I the only one who has trouble picturing Peter Dinklage jousting atop a pig?
 
2013-07-26 12:54:44 PM  

Nadie_AZ: SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons

I don't think he knows where to go, next. Or how to end it.


I disagree.. I think he knows exactly how it ends...unfinished when he keels over due to a heart-attack
 
2013-07-26 01:01:18 PM  

JerseyTim: They should just take it where it ought to be taken even if George R. R. Martin doesn't get there first: With Hot Pie on the Iron Throne.


I liked the TWoP recapper's idea of having the long-forgotten Rickon emerge after everyone else is dead, "I'm king of the north, farkers!"

Anyway, I certainly hope they'll edit down books 4 and 5 to more rigorous plot lines.
 
2013-07-26 01:02:31 PM  

Sybarite: Am I the only one who has trouble picturing Peter Dinklage jousting atop a pig?


I'm actually looking forward to it.
 
2013-07-26 01:34:34 PM  
Just ask some Otaku on how best to handle this.
 
2013-07-26 01:38:20 PM  
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The show and the books will have two different endings.  GRRM is going to kill someone off that HBO won't go along with, like Tyrion or Dany, and the two stories will diverge.
 
2013-07-26 01:40:43 PM  

imontheinternet: I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The show and the books will have two different endings.  GRRM is going to kill someone off that HBO won't go along with, like Tyrion or Dany, and the two stories will diverge.


The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.
 
2013-07-26 01:41:38 PM  
Bigger problem is that Books 4 and 5 are no where near as good as Books 1 - 3.
 
2013-07-26 01:43:41 PM  
When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

assets.rollingstone.com

The man who pays them.

img.pandawhale.com

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!
 
2013-07-26 01:44:03 PM  
Although I like GOT, the only reason I click on these threads is to see this sweetheart
joonbug.com
 
2013-07-26 01:45:00 PM  

gilgigamesh: SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons

Well, sorta. The grand arc here is the uniting all the banners of Westeros under one authority, maybe into a new nation, in time to take on the existential threat to all of them posed by the white walkers.

Then again, knowing Martin it may well be that the arc will be deepening civil war blinding everyone to the real threat until its too late, with the white walkers taking advantage of the chaos to wipe them all out.

The last half of the final book will just be 900 pages of white walkers shambling around the broken remains of civilization.


horrorhothousereview.files.wordpress.com

I've seen that movie
 
2013-07-26 01:46:40 PM  

xynix: The problem I have with all shows really is that they can't let them die. So instead of letting them die or end they turn into crap like that stupid island TV show.. can't remember the name. Very interesting first season then downhill from there. I wish someone would do a 1 or 2 season show and END IT. Maybe have an overall theme for the world in which it's created and then maybe have an entirely new single season or dual season and END IT.

Anyways.. this is why I don't watch TV. I can't watch Game of Thrones even though George RR Martin is a good friend of my moms and I used to chill with him at Sci Fi conventions when I was a kid.. I can't because I know the show will eventually turn into a spiraling whirlpool of toilet juice.


You're asking for the British TV model.
 
2013-07-26 01:48:21 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: imontheinternet: I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The show and the books will have two different endings.  GRRM is going to kill someone off that HBO won't go along with, like Tyrion or Dany, and the two stories will diverge.

The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.


Not to mention Robb's wife being at the Red Wedding.
 
2013-07-26 01:48:35 PM  

kbronsito: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.


How delightfully original a Hodor joke.
 
2013-07-26 01:49:21 PM  

JolobinSmokin: gilgigamesh: SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons

Well, sorta. The grand arc here is the uniting all the banners of Westeros under one authority, maybe into a new nation, in time to take on the existential threat to all of them posed by the white walkers.

Then again, knowing Martin it may well be that the arc will be deepening civil war blinding everyone to the real threat until its too late, with the white walkers taking advantage of the chaos to wipe them all out.

The last half of the final book will just be 900 pages of white walkers shambling around the broken remains of civilization.

[horrorhothousereview.files.wordpress.com image 850x439]

I've seen that movie


I though that movie would be terrible but Romeo and Juliet actually works as a Zombie love story.
 
2013-07-26 01:51:38 PM  
They should just do a flashback season with the overthrow of the mad king.

Bring back some of the actors who are gone now and explain all that backstory that gets eluded to constantly. It would add an extra dimension to characters we already know and knew.
 
2013-07-26 01:51:48 PM  

ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!


John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.
 
2013-07-26 01:52:17 PM  

naughtyrev: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

They'll just mash 4 and 5 together - they happen mostly simultaneously anyhow, so there's no real impact except for people who are trying to read the books and aren't caught up .


Not like it was ever done before on television, right?

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-26 01:53:36 PM  

kbronsito: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.


Hodor is really the alt avatar for Bela for the Creator
 
2013-07-26 01:53:51 PM  

justtray: They should just do a flashback season with the overthrow of the mad king.

Bring back some of the actors who are gone now and explain all that backstory that gets eluded to constantly. It would add an extra dimension to characters we already know and knew.


When the encyclopedia comes out wouldn't be surprised if HBO did an entire flashback season covering the rule of the Targaryens so Martin can catch up.
 
2013-07-26 01:53:51 PM  

ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.


Well, He was stabbed a lot anyway, we'll see if he's dead or not.
 
2013-07-26 01:53:58 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: JerseyTim: They should just take it where it ought to be taken even if George R. R. Martin doesn't get there first: With Hot Pie on the Iron Throne.

I liked the TWoP recapper's idea of having the long-forgotten Rickon emerge after everyone else is dead, "I'm king of the north, farkers!"

Anyway, I certainly hope they'll edit down books 4 and 5 to more rigorous plot lines.


They could probably get books 4 and 5 into one season. There's not a lot that happens, at least relative to the page count. It's mostly food descriptions and wondering where whores go.
 
2013-07-26 01:55:59 PM  

kbronsito: My two Hodor theories:
1. Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.


insert conspiracy Keanu jpeg here.
 
2013-07-26 01:56:09 PM  

ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.


You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.
 
2013-07-26 01:56:46 PM  
Tyrion could just be on that boat for six filler seasons.
 
2013-07-26 01:56:46 PM  
Can't we just get some barely literate middle aged woman to write 50 shades of Little finger?  Sure we'll have to  watch as metaphors are tortured and split but it will broaden its appeal
 
2013-07-26 02:02:11 PM  

bulok: Not like it was ever done before on television, right?


Glad someone mentioned this. An entire show that was basically a giant middle finger to the audience and yet they tuned in every week and kept eating that shiat up.
 
2013-07-26 02:02:25 PM  

JolobinSmokin: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

Well, He was stabbed a lot anyway, we'll see if he's dead or not.


Thank you I'm tired of hearing "He can't kill Jon Snow." I bet if the internet were more prevalent when AGoT was published these same morons would have been clamoring that Ned wasn't really dead. I know for a fact that there were thousands online claiming that he would bring Robb back, they're still waiting. If they want a happy ending they should stick to Harry Potter. I see your point but the fanbois refuse to even consider that their little favorite might actually die and that really bugs me.
 
2013-07-26 02:03:11 PM  

Carth: Not to mention Robb's wife being at the Red Wedding.


That's not that big of a deal. In the book she just goes off and you never hear from her again. same same.


Unless Grayjoy gets a move on she isn't going to be back in time to fight for her father's throne.


Psycoholic_Slag: Although I like GOT, the only reason I click on these threads is to see this sweetheart
[joonbug.com image 600x741]


img17.imageshack.us

She is hotter as a brunette, it is known
 
2013-07-26 02:04:03 PM  

gilgigamesh: Then again, knowing Martin it may well be that the arc will be deepening civil war blinding everyone to the real threat until its too late, with the white walkers taking advantage of the chaos to wipe them all out.


this is likely... i call it the beowulf/hamlet route*

get all a-flutter about the in-house problems, close with the fact that the weird people from the north are coming and will kill everyone anyways.
 
2013-07-26 02:05:00 PM  

pute kisses like a man: gilgigamesh: Then again, knowing Martin it may well be that the arc will be deepening civil war blinding everyone to the real threat until its too late, with the white walkers taking advantage of the chaos to wipe them all out.

this is likely... i call it the beowulf/hamlet route*

get all a-flutter about the in-house problems, close with the fact that the weird people from the north are coming and will kill everyone anyways.


oh. i removed my footnote, forgot to remove the asterik telling you to look for a footnote.  sorry.  (was about heremode, the originally hamlet, and the pendent, which was the original ring)
 
2013-07-26 02:06:52 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.


Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'
 
2013-07-26 02:07:32 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Carth: Not to mention Robb's wife being at the Red Wedding.

That's not that big of a deal. In the book she just goes off and you never hear from her again. same same.


Unless Grayjoy gets a move on she isn't going to be back in time to fight for her father's throne.


Psycoholic_Slag: Although I like GOT, the only reason I click on these threads is to see this sweetheart
[joonbug.com image 600x741]

[img17.imageshack.us image 635x500]

She is hotter as a brunette, it is known


Depends if they plan to <stop reading here show only people> bring her back instead of Catelyn. That would have very big implications for Brienne's storyline.

We haven't heard from her yet. We know the Jamie's description of her doesn't match Catelyns so there is the possibility she actually does have a little king to the north in her somewhere and is in hiding.
 
2013-07-26 02:10:28 PM  
show sucks.  period.

.!
 
2013-07-26 02:12:04 PM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
Better bring in the big guns.
 
2013-07-26 02:12:37 PM  
They could fill a season just fleshing out back stories.
 
2013-07-26 02:13:13 PM  

JerseyTim: They should just take it where it ought to be taken even if George R. R. Martin doesn't get there first: With Hot Pie Hodor on the Iron Throne.


Hodored.
 
2013-07-26 02:13:44 PM  
pics.livejournal.com
All in the Game of Thrones, yo. All in the Game of Thrones.
 
2013-07-26 02:14:55 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
Three years. For three years I warned you this day was coming, but you would not listen. Don't worry, you said, he'll finish. And now Martin has run out of released material. Showtime has 'Homeland', 'Mad Men' is wrapping up, even Fx has 'American Horror Story' and 'The Americans'. The pride was yours, the presumption was yours. For a thousand years, we have been awaiting the conclusion of the book series. And when it doesn't happens, you scorn it, you reject it because you you think you can wrap it up in a collosal clusterfark like 'True Blood'. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. The North remembers." You go to Comic Con and plaster the words, but your intent is empty, your ears closed except to churn out sex and violence. You stand for nothing but your own petty interests. "Meh, we'll just get another hot fantasy series." I do not blame you for standing silent in your shame. You, who knew what was coming, but refused to take up the burden of this war. If the executives will not wrap up the series, then the rest of us will. HBO has lost it's way. If it will not lead, if you have abandoned our commitment to excellence to Television, then we're cancelling our service, as we should have after you cancelled 'Deadwood'. We must stand with the others now before it's too late. Between the internet and Netflix, there is enough streaming media to entertain us. To you, I say, listen to the voice of your conscience. Wrap up the series and come with me. The time for meandering is over. We move now, together or not at all.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:24 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-26 02:16:39 PM  

kbronsito: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.


I actually was considering something related to this myself just this morning.  I'm part-way through reading the first book in the series.  The TV show doesn't really cover Hodor very well.  But there's a part in the book when Bran is bed-ridden where it's talking about Old Nan being his mother and it talks about that her revealing that his name's not Hodor, that it's Walder, but at some point when he was little he just started saying "Hodor" all the time and everyone started calling him that and it stuck. 

This random word being the only word he ever says and no one gives any thought to what it means strikes me as something that could be VERY interesting later on.  Especially with the overall way that the series places such importance on names and nicknames.  Hodor being called something other than his name to the point that no one remembers that it's not his name might be just symbolic of him being so unappreciated and misunderstood in general, but I wouldn't be shocked to find that "Hodor" means something important.
 
2013-07-26 02:18:14 PM  

ScaryBottles: Thank you I'm tired of hearing "He can't kill Jon Snow." I bet if the internet were more prevalent when AGoT was published these same morons would have been clamoring that Ned wasn't really dead. I know for a fact that there were thousands online claiming that he would bring Robb back, they're still waiting. If they want a happy ending they should stick to Harry Potter. I see your point but the fanbois refuse to even consider that their little favorite might actually die and that really bugs me.



/spoilers... i guess, seems like that ship has sailed?
he's not dead yet because he would transfer to ghost, since he is a warg.

Sybarite: Am I the only one who has trouble picturing Peter Dinklage jousting atop a pig?


would not be surprised to see that entire character/plot get cut. unless martin has some crazy story in the works for her, she's done nothing to move the overall plot along. be much quicker and more efficient to skip that entire sub plot.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.


seems likely that they are setting her up to be in the north for her eventual stannis run in and doing it this way because they are combining euron and victarion into a single character. the entire iron born political thriller (while i liked it) does nothing to forward the plot. old man greyjoy dies, his one crazy traveling brother shows up, rallys the iron born with promises of dragons and such, and heads off to find dany on the other side of the world.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:22 PM  
It seems like Martin got bored with the series after book 3 anyway.  An entire season of "Brianne walks around a lot and then gets killed" would be some good TV.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:48 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Thank you I'm tired of hearing "He can't kill Jon Snow." I bet if the internet were more prevalent when AGoT was published these same morons would have been clamoring that Ned wasn't really dead. I know for a fact that there were thousands online claiming that he would bring Robb back, they're still waiting. If they want a happy ending they should stick to Harry Potter. I see your point but the fanbois refuse to even consider that their little favorite might actually die and that really bugs me.


/spoilers... i guess, seems like that ship has sailed?
he's not dead yet because he would transfer to ghost, since he is a warg.

Sybarite: Am I the only one who has trouble picturing Peter Dinklage jousting atop a pig?

would not be surprised to see that entire character/plot get cut. unless martin has some crazy story in the works for her, she's done nothing to move the overall plot along. be much quicker and more efficient to skip that entire sub plot.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.

seems likely that they are setting her up to be in the north for her eventual stannis run in and doing it this way because they are combining euron and victarion into a single character. the entire iron born political thriller (while i liked it) does nothing to forward the plot. old man greyjoy dies, his one crazy traveling brother shows up, rallys the iron born with promises of dragons and such, and heads off to find dany on the other side of the world.


I agree on the warg thing I think he'll end up serving bran in Ghost's body but thats not even close to what these guys think will happen.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:54 PM  

ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talking about the prince who was promised meaning Martin isn't planning on just ignoring the prophecy he's been talking about for the entire series.

What evidence is there  that Snow is really dead? The fact he was stabbed four times?
 
2013-07-26 02:23:38 PM  

justtray: They should just do a flashback season with the overthrow of the mad king.

Bring back some of the actors who are gone now and explain all that backstory that gets eluded to constantly. It would add an extra dimension to characters we already know and knew.


No! no Mark Addy as young Robert.
 
2013-07-26 02:25:15 PM  
I stopped reading after waiting for years for book 4, then finding out book 5 wouldn't even advance the timeline.    Someone call me when he's done the series and I'll read it then.
 
2013-07-26 02:25:34 PM  

redstarr01: kbronsito: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.

I actually was considering something related to this myself just this morning.  I'm part-way through reading the first book in the series.  The TV show doesn't really cover Hodor very well.  But there's a part in the book when Bran is bed-ridden where it's talking about Old Nan being his mother and it talks about that her revealing that his name's not Hodor, that it's Walder, but at some point when he was little he just started saying "Hodor" all the time and everyone started calling him that and it stuck. 

This random word being the only word he ever says and no one gives any thought to what it means strikes me as something that could be VERY interesting later on.  Especially with the overall way that the series places such importance on names and nicknames.  Hodor being called something other than his name to the point that no one remembers that it's not his name might be just sym ...


I wonder what his relationship to Walder Frey is, since that family loves to name everyone Walder.
 
2013-07-26 02:28:36 PM  

kbronsito: 1. Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens



Hodor is the Dragon Reborn. His power will be revealed after he eats the hearts of John Snow and Danerys.
He and Bran will form a pact to enslave the descendants of the Andals. They will suffer and toil to spread weirwoods the length and breadth of Westeros.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:12 PM  
I think that we should have an "In Memorium" segment for Ros' boobs.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:07 PM  
If the last books are any indication, it might be a good idea to let the showrunners take over the story.
Plus, it'll cut down on people running into threads about the show to blab spoilers that won't happen for 2 more seasons.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:13 PM  

gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.


actually, you can't get away with that in books either.

book 4 sucked.
 
2013-07-26 02:31:43 PM  
Here's an idea: END THE GODDAMNED SERIES BEFORE YOU ADD COUSIN OLIVER LANNISTER
 
2013-07-26 02:31:56 PM  

tlchwi02: seems likely that they are setting her up to be in the north for her eventual stannis run in and doing it this way because they are combining euron and victarion into a single character. the entire iron born political thriller (while i liked it) does nothing to forward the plot. old man greyjoy dies, his one crazy traveling brother shows up, rallys the iron born with promises of dragons and such, and heads off to find dany on the other side of the world.


R.R. Martin finally found the one thing he desperately needed, someone with a black sharpie. Whoever he is working with over at HBO has been making some smart cuts. Hopefully we can get to the end without ever seeing her other brother and never ever seeing Dome.
 
2013-07-26 02:32:04 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talking abo ...


Also worth noting that even GRRM won't say Snow is actually dead.

An interview with EW:

EW: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN
: Oh, you think he's dead, do you?
 
2013-07-26 02:33:14 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talking abo ...



So, John Snow is really, Rheager and lyssa's kid and was never Ned's bastard?

/my wife's theory up until he got ceasar/brutus'd.

He could be dead he could not be dead that is the question.  Whether tis nobler for martin is yet to be seen.
 
2013-07-26 02:34:27 PM  

ScaryBottles: I agree on the warg thing I think he'll end up serving bran in Ghost's body but thats not even close to what these guys think will happen.


well, melisandra is also present (and her POVs have been all about how important jon is) and she obviously has the possibility to ressurect the dead (since we know thats one of the red priests general power sets.) Plus, there is the obvious plot furthering point that if he were brought back from the dead, he would actually be eligable to be a stark- his oath to the nights watch would be fullfilled by his death. This would be wildly convenient for martin, but he is pretty well known for avoiding these sorts of obvious things.... but in this case, he's also been all cagey when asked about it.

in any case, some part of jon will be in the next book. his "soul" is still going to be around and ambulatory, its just a question of "in what form" at this point
 
2013-07-26 02:36:04 PM  

Carth: Also worth noting that even GRRM won't say Snow is actually dead.

An interview with EW:

EW: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he's dead, do you?


itsvivid.files.wordpress.com
Herrings are coming.
 
2013-07-26 02:36:42 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talking abo ...


I said no theories or fan speculation, take that away from your arguments and basically you have nothing. Please take a seat next to the Ned Stark and Robb deniers. Why is Martin's statement that no is safe in his series so hard for people to grasp? I miss the Hound terribly (yeah yeah I know Brienne, Quiet Isle etc its a theory based on speculation until they do a true reveal he's dead as far as I am concerned) but dude he's dead most likely. Like I said if you believe in plot immunity go read Harry Potter. And by the way how deluded are you that you think Snow is AAR/TPTWP its clearly Dany she meets every one of the prophesies without any need for Logical somersaults to make it fit. Unlike Snow, Tyrion, Stannis and the other countless theories posted by people who seem to think they are smarter than everyone else. Are gonna go hunting Bigfoot and Atlantis next?
 
2013-07-26 02:37:39 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: R.R. Martin finally found the one thing he desperately needed, someone with a black sharpie. Whoever he is working with over at HBO has been making some smart cuts. Hopefully we can get to the end without ever seeing her other brother and never ever seeing Dome.


yeah, the thing about the entire iron born story line is that reading it is actually one of my favorite parts of the book. the characters are fascinating viking/barbarians and their infighting is fairly compelling.

but then, after reading 100's of pages about who is going to sit on their throne and its all settled and i think about what that means to the overall plot and i realize it didn't mean sh*t.
 
2013-07-26 02:38:14 PM  

stoli n coke: If the last books are any indication, it might be a good idea to let the showrunners take over the story.
Plus, it'll cut down on people running into threads about the show to blab spoilers that won't happen for 2 more seasons.


BOO HOO
 
2013-07-26 02:38:27 PM  

gilgigamesh: The last half of the final book will just be 900 pages of white walkers shambling around the broken remains of civilization.


And half of that will be about what the white walkers eat and wear.
 
2013-07-26 02:40:31 PM  

JolobinSmokin: So, John Snow is really, Rheager and lyssa's kid and was never Ned's bastard?


I think you mean Lyanna. It's a compelling theory, and it does explain why Ned waffled on telling Robert who the mother was.
 
2013-07-26 02:41:03 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: [images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 574x382]
Three years. For three years I warned you this day was coming, but you would not listen. Don't worry, you said, he'll finish. And now Martin has run out of released material. Showtime has 'Homeland', 'Mad Men' is wrapping up, even Fx has 'American Horror Story' and 'The Americans'. The pride was yours, the presumption was yours. For a thousand years, we have been awaiting the conclusion of the book series. And when it doesn't happens, you scorn it, you reject it because you you think you can wrap it up in a collosal clusterfark like 'True Blood'. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. The North remembers." You go to Comic Con and plaster the words, but your intent is empty, your ears closed except to churn out sex and violence. You stand for nothing but your own petty interests. "Meh, we'll just get another hot fantasy series." I do not blame you for standing silent in your shame. You, who knew what was coming, but refused to take up the burden of this war. If the executives will not wrap up the series, then the rest of us will. HBO has lost it's way. If it will not lead, if you have abandoned our commitment to excellence to Television, then we're cancelling our service, as we should have after you cancelled 'Deadwood'. We must stand with the others now before it's too late. Between the internet and Netflix, there is enough streaming media to entertain us. To you, I say, listen to the voice of your conscience. Wrap up the series and come with me. The time for meandering is over. We move now, together or not at all.


Damn. That was beautiful.
 
2013-07-26 02:41:35 PM  

ScaryBottles: stoli n coke: If the last books are any indication, it might be a good idea to let the showrunners take over the story.
Plus, it'll cut down on people running into threads about the show to blab spoilers that won't happen for 2 more seasons.

BOO HOO



That doesn't happen?
 
2013-07-26 02:41:46 PM  

Carth: Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talk ...


GRRM never says he's alive he just throws doubt on the question its not even close to the same thing.
 
2013-07-26 02:42:49 PM  
Even if he is dead, it is pitifully easy for him to come back.
 
2013-07-26 02:44:40 PM  

ScaryBottles: I said no theories or fan speculation, take that away from your arguments and basically you have nothing


You did ask for evidence. You got a crap ton of evidence.

If you wanted solid proof, you should have asked for it.

/words are wind
 
2013-07-26 02:45:05 PM  

JolobinSmokin: Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talk ...


Your wife is probably right on that one, what gets me is how many people it has seemed to slip past that Jaime and Cersei were fathered by Aerys. Again just a theory of mine I've been kicking around since book 2 so take it or leave it but its looking more likely each book.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:53 PM  

ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talk ...


Actually Arya is safe, his wife made him promise that she wouldn't die.  And Danny has invincible plot armor till she gets to Westerous
 
2013-07-26 02:50:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: Hodor is the Dragon Reborn.


As a big Wheel of Time fan, I just spent the last 10 minutes laughing to myself while thinking about Hodor fighting The Dark One at Tarmon Gai'den in a way similar to that depicted in the last WoT book.
 
2013-07-26 02:50:18 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: I said no theories or fan speculation, take that away from your arguments and basically you have nothing

You did ask for evidence. You got a crap ton of evidence.


If you wanted solid proof, you should have asked for it.

/words are wind

Carth: Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)

So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talk ...


Learn to read.
 
2013-07-26 02:52:11 PM  
Well, this thread degenerated.

"George R.R. Martin has had characters appear to be dead/actually die (Beric Dondarrion, Ser Davos, Catelyn Stark, Bran and Rickon Stark, Aegon Targaryen, Jon Connington, Gregor Clegane) repeatedly. He's written characters that are capable of warging into other creatures and maintaining their consciousness after death (Orell). Also, there's these R'hllor guys who are capable of bringing people back from the dead. One of whom happens to be at the Wall. HOW DARE YOU THINK JON SNOW IS ANYTHING BUT PERMANENTLY DEAD FOREVER AND ALWAYS."
 
2013-07-26 02:53:30 PM  

ShadowKamui: Actually Arya is safe, his wife made him promise that she wouldn't die.  And Danny has invincible plot armor till she gets to Westerous


Unless of course he intends to have the White Walkers win, never rule that out.
 
2013-07-26 02:54:13 PM  

ScaryBottles: Your wife is probably right on that one, what gets me is how many people it has seemed to slip past that Jaime and Cersei were fathered by Aerys. Again just a theory of mine I've been kicking around since book 2 so take it or leave it but its looking more likely each book.


What makes you think that?
 
2013-07-26 02:54:48 PM  
Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!
 
2013-07-26 02:55:02 PM  
Just pretend the last two books never happened and take the story in a completely different direction.  Not only will it be a definite improvement over those two crap books, but the ire it produces in George Rest & Relaxation Martin and his sycophantic toadies will be almost as entertaining as the show has been.
 
2013-07-26 02:56:34 PM  

Carth: There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.


ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories


I can read.  Can you?

Or did you forget mid-stream what you were asking for?

/not the one conflating evidence and proof.
 
2013-07-26 02:57:34 PM  
Martin wants HBO to take the arrows for anti-climatic ending.
 
2013-07-26 02:58:48 PM  

Shostie: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow:

I figure they'll cover Feast and Dance at the same time, probably break the books into no fewer than three seasons.


Three seasons of everyone on the show puttering around doing absolutely nothing interesting?  If they do stick to the books, they should cram Feast and Dance into one full season at best.  They're 90% filler.
 
2013-07-26 02:59:24 PM  
It's pretty clear Danaerys, Bran, and maybe Tyrion have plot immunity. Jon Snow might be mostly dead, but odds are he'll be dragged back in.
 
2013-07-26 03:00:18 PM  

KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!


They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.
 
2013-07-26 03:01:18 PM  

Cagey B: Well, this thread degenerated.

"George R.R. Martin has had characters appear to be dead/actually die (Beric Dondarrion, Ser Davos, Catelyn Stark, Bran and Rickon Stark, Aegon Targaryen, Jon Connington, Gregor Clegane) repeatedly. He's written characters that are capable of warging into other creatures and maintaining their consciousness after death (Orell). Also, there's these R'hllor guys who are capable of bringing people back from the dead. One of whom happens to be at the Wall. HOW DARE YOU THINK JON SNOW IS ANYTHING BUT PERMANENTLY DEAD FOREVER AND ALWAYS."


I am willing to consider the possibility that Snow will live. But thank you for putting words in my mouth. I take exception to those who won't even consider the possibility he's dead. But once again thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Its not even that they won't see that he may be dead that gets me, its the thinking behind it. Its like M. Night Shaymalan twist crap, they think they are smarter than everyone else because they figured out a secret. Oh and have I thanked you yet for putting words in my mouth?
 
2013-07-26 03:02:14 PM  

KellyX: her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6.


Nah, he's not actually Aegon, but rather a Blackfyre bastard being passed off and trained up to be king.  It's probably what's actually best for the realm, but he's definitely a fake.  Being a Blackfyre would also explain why the Golden Company would break a contract for the first time in history to take up his cause.

/Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood. I say no more
 
2013-07-26 03:03:19 PM  

legion_of_doo: It's pretty clear Danaerys, Bran, and maybe Tyrion have plot immunity. Jon Snow might be mostly dead, but odds are he'll be dragged back in.


It's made clear by the prologue of book 5 that Jon Snow will be spending some time inside of Ghost during book 6.

You're right about plot immunity, though.  My feeling is that the last chapter of the last book will be Bran's, since his is the first chapter in the first book.
 
2013-07-26 03:10:44 PM  

ScaryBottles: I said no theories or fan speculation, take that away from your arguments and basically you have nothing. Please take a seat next to the Ned Stark and Robb deniers. Why is Martin's statement that no is safe in his series so hard for people to grasp? I miss the Hound terribly (yeah yeah I know Brienne, Quiet Isle etc its a theory based on speculation until they do a true reveal he's dead as far as I am concerned) but dude he's dead most likely.


Snow being dead is a theory and speculation. He got stabbed, then blacked out. We know no more than that.

Martin used a cliffhanger for Tyrion at the end of a chapter, fell into the river... drowning... last thing he saw.... oh he must be dead.
But oh look, he was just blacking out, he's totally rescued.
At the end of book 2, there was "the last thing Theon Grayjoy saw" or similar... but he was just knocked out (probably wishes it were the last thing he saw).

I think Martin's done this few other times that I can't recall off the top of my head, and that's not even taking into account the whole Stoneheart/Hangwoman nonsense.

If Snow were dead, Martin likely would have written about his death unambiguously, as he did with Ned Stark, Robb Stark (to say the least), Joffrey, etc.

I'm not a fan of this, mind you. I think it's cheap.
Plenty of people were probably suckered into thinking Aria would be permanently blind, Brienne will actually be hung (she'll be saved by the "one word" she shouts out), etc.

Killing off Snow would be fine.. helps move the plot along, helps get the Others getting past the Wall, to their ultimate battle with Westeros, after the Targaryans and their Dragons have won it back with the help of Varys.

Snow may well die. I just doubt he's dead... yet.

//your theory's worth about as much as anyone else's.
//would be rather anti-climatic if the Others never make it past the Wall
 
2013-07-26 03:13:30 PM  

ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: Actually Arya is safe, his wife made him promise that she wouldn't die.  And Danny has invincible plot armor till she gets to Westerous

Unless of course he intends to have the White Walkers win, never rule that out.


Even w/ that he still wouldn't kill Arya; the story would end w/ her turning into Michonne from Walking Dead
 
2013-07-26 03:15:42 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: ScaryBottles: Your wife is probably right on that one, what gets me is how many people it has seemed to slip past that Jaime and Cersei were fathered by Aerys. Again just a theory of mine I've been kicking around since book 2 so take it or leave it but its looking more likely each book.

What makes you think that?


Like I said just a theory could be nonsense. But my points are:

Its been stated several times that there was bad blood between Tywin and Aerys that was unrelated to the war.

Its been stated that Aerys had a bit of a fixation on Tywin's wife Joanna.

Its been stated that Aerys grievously insulted Tywin at his wedding, although its never explicitly described the context makes it seem that it was more than just your wife looks fat in that dress.

In the past two books the idea of "first night" privileges has been brought up a few times, even one person can't recall who maybe Theon states that the Umbers still observe the custom and that was an established if rarely envoked custom under the Targs.

Jaime and Cersei have been described as almost rivaling the "unnatural" beauty of the Targs.

Incest runs in Targ family it is known.

Tyrion is not described as looking even remotely like Jaime or Cersei with the exception of the Blond hair.

It has been confirmed time and again that Tyrion is almost indisputably Tywin's son see previous point.

I have more but the rest is even more speculative. The difference is I know my insane theory is insane most likely.
 
2013-07-26 03:16:47 PM  

ScaryBottles: Your wife is probably right on that one, what gets me is how many people it has seemed to slip past that Jaime and Cersei were fathered by Aerys. Again just a theory of mine I've been kicking around since book 2 so take it or leave it but its looking more likely each book.


What makes you think that?
 
2013-07-26 03:19:07 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: Carth: There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories

I can read.  Can you?

Or did you forget mid-stream what you were asking for?

/not the one conflating evidence and proof.


Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'
 
2013-07-26 03:21:11 PM  

Clash City Farker: KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!

They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.


I'm thinking Jaime, Stannis (Baratheons have dragon blood in them, thats the justification Robert used to claim the throne) and Dany.
 
2013-07-26 03:23:19 PM  

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!

They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.

I'm thinking Jaime, Stannis (Baratheons have dragon blood in them, thats the justification Robert used to claim the throne) and Dany.


I think the Mad King raped Tywin's wife, that's how Tyrion came about... Tywin either suspected but was too proud to ever admit it, or never knew the truth.

The theories on Jon Snow are sound and you probably know them...
 
2013-07-26 03:23:46 PM  
Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.
 
2013-07-26 03:24:13 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Plenty of people were probably suckered into thinking Aria would be permanently blind, Brienne will actually be hung (she'll be saved by the "one word" she shouts out), etc.


i thought it was clear she wasn't going to be hung because she yelled out her one word... thought the cliffhanger was going to be "what was the word?!?!"

/even though it was super duper obvious
 
2013-07-26 03:26:30 PM  

Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.


What?
 
2013-07-26 03:27:24 PM  
gahhhh, I haven't finished the last book yet and you guyz are spoiling it for me. Urk. Just for that, I'm posting shirtless Gendry.

i154.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-26 03:28:08 PM  

HawgWild: FTFA: The problem has always been that Martin hasn't yet written the final two books in the seven-book series the show is based on. And he's not terribly fast at writing them: the five books so far in the series have been published over 15 years; the television show has covered three of those books in three years.

*adjusts nerd glasses*

Uh, technically, they have finished 2 1/2 books in 3 years. The fourth season will cover the second half of the third book.

Now, if you will excuse me ... I have to organize my pocket protectors.


By size or color?
 
2013-07-26 03:28:23 PM  

KellyX: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!

They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.

I'm thinking Jaime, Stannis (Baratheons have dragon blood in them, thats the justification Robert used to claim the throne) and Dany.

I think the Mad King raped Tywin's wife, that's how Tyrion came about... Tywin either suspected but was too proud to ever admit it, or never knew the truth.

The theories on Jon Snow are sound and you probably know them...


I would agree but Jaime and Cersei were the first born Lannisters and it says that the bad blood between Tywin and Aerys started just after his Tywin's wedding and the "first night" custom mentioned in the books gives Aerys the motive, means and oppurtunity to rape Joanna.
 
2013-07-26 03:28:46 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I don't think he knows where to go, next. Or how to end it.


well according to GRRM himself he knows how it is going to end. He also had to tell HBO how it is going to end, but that is /no/ guarantee that the books and the series will end in the same way.
 
2013-07-26 03:29:19 PM  

Carth: Depends if they plan to <stop reading here show only people> bring her back instead of Catelyn. That would have very big implications for Brienne's storyline.

We haven't heard from her yet. We know the Jamie's description of her doesn't match Catelyns so there is the possibility she actually does have a little king to the north in her somewhere and is in hiding.


i would suspect not, because then you have to come up with a new reason for her not to hang brienne, or cut that entire plot line. We'll have to see what the end of that semi-cliffhanger is (if it doesn't push the overall plot anywhere, then she could be swapped in easily enough... or they could just cut the whole lady stoneheart thing. so far it hasn't yeilded any real plot momentum beyond some allusions to how the resurrection effects different people)
 
2013-07-26 03:29:32 PM  

KellyX: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!

They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.

I'm thinking Jaime, Stannis (Baratheons have dragon blood in them, thats the justification Robert used to claim the throne) and Dany.

I think the Mad King raped Tywin's wife, that's how Tyrion came about... Tywin either suspected but was too proud to ever admit it, or never knew the truth.

The theories on Jon Snow are sound and you probably know them...


There is no evidence in the book that the Mad King did anything w/ Tywins wife after the wedding incident.  Not to mention, Tywin would have moon tea-ed out any rape spawn and/or tossed it down a well.
 
2013-07-26 03:30:55 PM  
ADwD, Melisandre Chapter (27ish?):

"Death, thought Melisandre.The skills are death.  The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered nameJohn Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him."


 Also of import, shortly thereafter:

"Yet now she could not even seem to find her king.I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor show me only Snow."

This isn't all that subtle, I don't think. Snow dies, goes into ghost, and comes back as a man again (whether in his own body or someone else's. He is also Azor Ahai reborn. Just from the text. Melisandre didn't understand what the flames were trying to tell her, despite touting her own skill at reading them, but we, as readers, can.

Is it possible this is deliberate misdirection from Martin? Of course. But it's somewhat silly to take the position that it's most likely that John is perma-dead and that Dany, not John, is AAR.
 
2013-07-26 03:31:37 PM  

tlchwi02: tallguywithglasseson: Plenty of people were probably suckered into thinking Aria would be permanently blind, Brienne will actually be hung (she'll be saved by the "one word" she shouts out), etc.

i thought it was clear she wasn't going to be hung because she yelled out her one word... thought the cliffhanger was going to be "what was the word?!?!"

/even though it was super duper obvious


I'm pretty sure I remember Brienne showing up later in a Jaime chapter saying she found Sansa Stark and he has to come with her, alone.

Though, no explanation was given as to how she got away. Cersei receives word of Jamie running off with Brienne and she is pissed.

Am I way off?
 
2013-07-26 03:31:53 PM  
Hope they consider adapting the "Wildcards" books. . .
 
2013-07-26 03:32:19 PM  

ScaryBottles: Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


Yes.  It is definitely my fault that you don't know what words mean and demanded what was never offered.

I can see why you have so much trouble with even the most obvious foreshadowing.
 
2013-07-26 03:32:25 PM  

Egalitarian: gahhhh, I haven't finished the last book yet and you guyz are spoiling it for me. Urk. Just for that, I'm posting shirtless Gendry.

[i154.photobucket.com image 500x259]


This flame war started because of people complaining about spoilers. I am so tired of hearing that crap if you go online to check out a show based on books be prepared for spoilers. Why don't we cry about every plot detail revealed by those who have read the Hobbit trilogy? I've never read them so I guess its unfair for anyone on the internet to discuss the story for any reason ever. Thats what you sound like.
 
2013-07-26 03:34:35 PM  

mcmnky: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

actually, you can't get away with that in books either.

book 4 sucked.


I imagine that the show will cover books 4 and 5 concurrently, and pad them out to a total of 3 seasons.
 
2013-07-26 03:34:58 PM  

Sybarite: Am I the only one who has trouble picturing Peter Dinklage jousting atop a pig?


Yes.
 
2013-07-26 03:34:58 PM  

Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.


Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.
 
2013-07-26 03:35:39 PM  

Big Beef Burrito: I'm pretty sure I remember Brienne showing up later in a Jaime chapter saying she found Sansa Stark and he has to come with her, alone.

Though, no explanation was given as to how she got away. Cersei receives word of Jamie running off with Brienne and she is pissed.


oh yeah, i forgot they put that in. in my recollection they'd just ended it with brienne
 
2013-07-26 03:37:29 PM  

tlchwi02: Big Beef Burrito: I'm pretty sure I remember Brienne showing up later in a Jaime chapter saying she found Sansa Stark and he has to come with her, alone.

Though, no explanation was given as to how she got away. Cersei receives word of Jamie running off with Brienne and she is pissed.

oh yeah, i forgot they put that in. in my recollection they'd just ended it with brienne


I recently read the combined version of books 4 & 5. It was much better that way, but I think you are correct that either book 4 or 5 ended Brienne's story with her on the noose. She shows up towards the end of the other one.
 
2013-07-26 03:37:51 PM  
Sam Tarley is SO close to discovering from the Maesters that they are all Cylons.
 
2013-07-26 03:39:47 PM  

KellyX: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: KellyX: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion are the last three real Targaryens... her brother too, but he will be killed at beginning of Book 6...

Book it!

They are the 3 heads of the dragon. I believe there are still other Targs floating around.

I'm thinking Jaime, Stannis (Baratheons have dragon blood in them, thats the justification Robert used to claim the throne) and Dany.

I think the Mad King raped Tywin's wife, that's how Tyrion came about... Tywin either suspected but was too proud to ever admit it, or never knew the truth.

The theories on Jon Snow are sound and you probably know them...


Or maybe the fact that Tywin knew Tyrion was his only legitimate heir was what kept Tywin from flinging him off the Walls of Casterly Rock. Honestly being a sectret Targ demeans and belittles the character of Tyrion. Tyrion's defining characteristic is his very complicated and difficult relationship with his father. If this were Harry Potter you might be on to something. Yeah and before you say it  why would Tywin feel familial obligation to a baby he knew wasn't his. Especially a hideously misshapen freak? (they make Tyrion a lot more handsome on the show than he is in the books)
 
2013-07-26 03:41:52 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Yes.  It is definitely my fault that you don't know what words mean and demanded what was never offered.

I can see why you have so much trouble with even the most obvious foreshadowing.


Whatever just ignore the bolded passages
 
2013-07-26 03:43:59 PM  

Big Beef Burrito: I'm pretty sure I remember Brienne showing up later in a Jaime chapter saying she found Sansa Stark and he has to come with her, alone.

Though, no explanation was given as to how she got away. Cersei receives word of Jamie running off with Brienne and she is pissed.

Am I way off?


Oh right, my bad.

Martin has already done the end-around with Brienne's hanging, cliffhanger in book 4, found to be alive in book 5.
So she was definitely saved by the one word she yelled out (I thought was obvious too, but then I thought it was obvious Jon Snow's death is a fake-out).
We just don't know the details yet.
 
2013-07-26 03:44:15 PM  

Big Beef Burrito: I recently read the combined version of books 4 & 5. It was much better that way, but I think you are correct that either book 4 or 5 ended Brienne's story with her on the noose. She shows up towards the end of the other one.


i re-read book 4 and half of 5 while on vaction awhile ago, that may be why i don't remember that. whenever that occured, i still think i know what she would have shouted
 
2013-07-26 03:44:59 PM  

Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.


Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?
 
2013-07-26 03:45:31 PM  

ScaryBottles: Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Yes.  It is definitely my fault that you don't know what words mean and demanded what was never offered.

I can see why you have so much trouble with even the most obvious foreshadowing.

Whatever just ignore the bolded passages


I read them.  I also read the words around them, which apparently you've repeatedly skipped.  Again, this failure to comprehend context really explains the difficulty you're having with GoT.
 
2013-07-26 03:47:34 PM  

ScaryBottles: Egalitarian: gahhhh, I haven't finished the last book yet and you guyz are spoiling it for me. Urk. Just for that, I'm posting shirtless Gendry.

[i154.photobucket.com image 500x259]

This flame war started because of people complaining about spoilers. I am so tired of hearing that crap if you go online to check out a show based on books be prepared for spoilers. Why don't we cry about every plot detail revealed by those who have read the Hobbit trilogy? I've never read them so I guess its unfair for anyone on the internet to discuss the story for any reason ever. Thats what you sound like.


LOL I assume you're trolling. Reading the Hobbit trilogy?

i154.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-26 03:49:37 PM  

Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?


Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.
 
2013-07-26 03:51:59 PM  

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.


Thats because I'm not arguing.
 
2013-07-26 03:53:43 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Yes.  It is definitely my fault that you don't know what words mean and demanded what was never offered.

I can see why you have so much trouble with even the most obvious foreshadowing.

Whatever just ignore the bolded passages

I read them.  I also read the words around them, which apparently you've repeatedly skipped.  Again, this failure to comprehend context really explains the difficulty you're having with GoT.


Ahh semantics the last refuge of morons. Do you claim to love women so much that you think they should be "protected" by staying knocked up in the kitchen? Oh no tell me the one about how gays have equal rights because they are free to marry ayt woman they want. I can't believe I wasted the time.........
 
2013-07-26 03:55:41 PM  
ScaryBottles:
Ahh semantics the last refuge of morons. Do you claim to love women so much that you think they should be "protected" by staying knocked up in the kitchen? Oh no tell me the one about how gays have equal rights because they are free to marry ayt woman they want. I can't believe I wasted the time.........

The Maid of Tarth, ladies and gentlemen...
 
2013-07-26 03:56:04 PM  

Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.

Thats because I'm not arguing.


Wow seriously implying someone is so dumb that they have to have something spelled out to them isn't argumentative. Is that what you're saying?
 
2013-07-26 03:57:33 PM  
What the hell happened here???
 
2013-07-26 03:58:19 PM  

1derful: ScaryBottles:
Ahh semantics the last refuge of morons. Do you claim to love women so much that you think they should be "protected" by staying knocked up in the kitchen? Oh no tell me the one about how gays have equal rights because they are free to marry ayt woman they want. I can't believe I wasted the time.........

The Maid of Tarth, ladies and gentlemen...


No I just have no patience for pseudo intellectual bullshiat.
 
2013-07-26 03:59:16 PM  

WhippingBoy: What the hell happened here???


Someone got on my nerves so I decided to ruin the thread.
 
2013-07-26 04:00:07 PM  
img33.imageshack.us

Oh, so that's what the show's about. I can see that I'm missing out.
 
2013-07-26 04:00:28 PM  

tlchwi02: Big Beef Burrito: I recently read the combined version of books 4 & 5. It was much better that way, but I think you are correct that either book 4 or 5 ended Brienne's story with her on the noose. She shows up towards the end of the other one.

i re-read book 4 and half of 5 while on vaction awhile ago, that may be why i don't remember that. whenever that occured, i still think i know what she would have shouted


What is your guess? I couldn't think of any one word. Maybe Arya, but I don't really remember if Brienne found out Arya was alive or not.
 
2013-07-26 04:00:32 PM  

ScaryBottles: Ahh semantics the last refuge of morons. Do you claim to love women so much that you think they should be "protected" by staying knocked up in the kitchen? Oh no tell me the one about how gays have equal rights because they are free to marry ayt woman they want. I can't believe I wasted the time.........


You're adorably insane.
 
2013-07-26 04:01:11 PM  

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.

Thats because I'm not arguing.

Wow seriously implying someone is so dumb that they have to have something spelled out to them isn't argumentative. Is that what you're saying?


So you think its a coincidence that the three most important characters in the story just happened to have mothers who all died in childbirth?
 
2013-07-26 04:01:58 PM  

Big Beef Burrito: What is your guess? I couldn't think of any one word. Maybe Arya, but I don't really remember if Brienne found out Arya was alive or not.


i'd say definetly arya, because she had just learned from the monks that the hound had been seen with arya (and he was quite certain of it.) I don't think she'd have cut brienne down for any other single word
 
2013-07-26 04:03:21 PM  

Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.

Thats because I'm not arguing.

Wow seriously implying someone is so dumb that they have to have something spelled out to them isn't argumentative. Is that what you're saying?

So you think its a coincidence that the three most important characters in the story just happened to have mothers who all died in childbirth?


Maybe it is maybe it isn't my point is if thats all you got look harder there is better evidence to support your theory.
 
2013-07-26 04:04:58 PM  
Okay I wasn't going to bite with the ASOIF discussion but now I can't stop yelling at my screen:

From the books to suggest Jon Snow's story isn't over (note I didn't say he wasn't dead)

1. Read the prologue about Varamyr Sixskins from A Dance With Dragons.  It's all about wargs and what happens when they die.

2. Melisandre's chapter in ADWD when she is praying to the flames (around page 400 something):  The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again.  Now he was a man, now a wolf, and a man again.  But the skulls were there as well, the skulls were all around him.

3. Another from Melisandre:  I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor only shows me Snow.

4. Martin has said in interviews that readers will find out who Jon Snow's parents are by the end of the series.  I sat in on a talk the showrunners of Game of Thrones did last April in Los Angeles.  From the horses' mouthes, they know who his parents are (and they said parents, not mom).  They HEAVILLY implied they are Rhaygar and Leanna.  Sorry I don't have a link or anything, my source is I heard them say it.  Point being that this is still a big mystery.  If we were done with Jon Snow why would this information still be so important?  Who would benefit from this information?  Martin doesn't seem like the type of writer to just throw it in there in book 7 with the characters being like "GEE too bad Snow is dead!  He would have liked to know that!"

Finally, an excerpt from an interview Martin JUST gave on io9:

"Some major characters - yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing. "

The fact that he says "is" implies there is more to his story arc.  If he were dead like Ned/Robb Stark-dead, it's difficult for that to happen.  I think he's "dead" but dead like Lady Stoneheart is dead.  Him turning into a wolf in Melisandre's vision ties well with the prologue's explanation of wargs going into an animal when they die.  I'm guessing he wargs into Ghost.  However, the fact that he turns BACK into a man in the vision implies something else.  I'm guessing it all ties in with him actually being Azor Ahai reborn which Martin is strongly suggesting as per #3 in my list.

As an aside I would recommend reading the whole interview io9 put up.  It's a good read.
 
2013-07-26 04:07:54 PM  

LisaSimpson: Martin doesn't seem like the type of writer to just throw it in there in book 7 with the characters being like "GEE too bad Snow is dead! He would have liked to know that!"


although to be fair, that would be *pretty* funny

"so jon's parents were THEM?"
"yeah, too bad he got stabbed to death a few months ago"
"yeah bummer- anyway, about those white walkers"
 
2013-07-26 04:08:52 PM  
I was quite upset when I realized that the actress playing a 13-year-old in the first episode was actually 13 years old. Honestly, I thought she was at least 25.
 
2013-07-26 04:11:20 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Killing off Snow would be fine.. helps move the plot along, helps get the Others getting past the Wall, to their ultimate battle with Westeros, after the Targaryans and their Dragons have won it back with the help of Varys.

Snow may well die. I just doubt he's dead... yet.


John Snow will live. The sword Light Bringer will be remade, and Snow will quench the newly-reforged blade by running it through Dany's chest.
 
2013-07-26 04:12:38 PM  

ScaryBottles: Freudian_slipknot: Carth: There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories

I can read.  Can you?

Or did you forget mid-stream what you were asking for?

/not the one conflating evidence and proof.

Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


I think you might be confused between the definitions of evidence and proof.

Evidence is facts that can support an assertion. Proof is definitive evidence that an assertion is true. There is plenty of evidence pointing to Jon snow being alive all supported by the text. What you are looking for is proof that he is alive. That we won't have until Martin flat out says one way or another.

I think the evidence pointing to him being alive outweighs the evidence that he is dead. You seem to disagree.

Either way your a jerk for trying to spoil the show for people who haven't read the books.
 
2013-07-26 04:14:32 PM  

LisaSimpson: Okay I wasn't going to bite with the ASOIF discussion but now I can't stop yelling at my screen:

From the books to suggest Jon Snow's story isn't over (note I didn't say he wasn't dead)

1. Read the prologue about Varamyr Sixskins from A Dance With Dragons.  It's all about wargs and what happens when they die.

2. Melisandre's chapter in ADWD when she is praying to the flames (around page 400 something):  The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again.  Now he was a man, now a wolf, and a man again.  But the skulls were there as well, the skulls were all around him.

3. Another from Melisandre:  I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor only shows me Snow.

4. Martin has said in interviews that readers will find out who Jon Snow's parents are by the end of the series.  I sat in on a talk the showrunners of Game of Thrones did last April in Los Angeles.  From the horses' mouthes, they know who his parents are (and they said parents, not mom).  They HEAVILLY implied they are Rhaygar and Leanna.  Sorry I don't have a link or anything, my source is I heard them say it.  Point being that this is still a big mystery.  If we were done with Jon Snow why would this information still be so important?  Who would benefit from this information?  Martin doesn't seem like the type of writer to just throw it in there in book 7 with the characters being like "GEE too bad Snow is dead!  He would have liked to know that!"

Finally, an excerpt from an interview Martin JUST gave on io9:

"Some major characters - yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing. "

The fact that he says "is" implies there is more to his story arc.  If he ...


Just because he's alive doesn't mean he will be Jon Snow as you imagine it, like I said earlier he'll warg into Ghost and end up serving Bran. Also what GRRM stated was he knew when and how Snow's story arc ends, not that Snow will make it to the end of the series. I've read the interview and it kinda sounds like you just heard what you wanted to hear.
 
2013-07-26 04:15:16 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Three years. For three years I warned you this day was coming, but you would not listen


applause.jpg
 
2013-07-26 04:17:46 PM  

give me doughnuts: tallguywithglasseson: Killing off Snow would be fine.. helps move the plot along, helps get the Others getting past the Wall, to their ultimate battle with Westeros, after the Targaryans and their Dragons have won it back with the help of Varys.

Snow may well die. I just doubt he's dead... yet.

John Snow will live. The sword Light Bringer will be remade, and Snow will quench the newly-reforged blade by running it through Dany's chest.


"Lightbringer" could just as easily refer to Dany's dragons who I might add she sacrificed Drogo to hatch kinda like when AA tempered his sword in his own wife's body.
 
2013-07-26 04:19:30 PM  

dj_spanmaster: [img33.imageshack.us image 550x374]

When the lights are out I forget she has dragons.

 
2013-07-26 04:21:29 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: Freudian_slipknot: Carth: There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories

I can read.  Can you?

Or did you forget mid-stream what you were asking for?

/not the one conflating evidence and proof.

Sure you a point have unless I explicitly and intentionally used the word proof.

eally? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox)So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

I think you might be confused between the definitions of evidence and proof.

Evidence is facts that can support an assertion. Proof is definitive evidence that an assertion is true. There is plenty of evidence pointing to Jon snow being alive all supported by the text. What you are looking for is proof that he is alive. That we won't have until Martin flat out says one way or another.

I think the evidence pointing to him being alive outweighs the evidence that he is dead. You seem to disagree.

Either way your a jerk for trying to spoil the show for people who haven't read the books.


Yeah well I'm sick of people whining about it. Its like going out in a rainstorm with no coat and then complaining about getting wet.
 
2013-07-26 04:22:12 PM  

naughtyrev: SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons

I think that's one side of things, but the Iron Throne is certainly being fought over, but the real combatants are Littlefinger and Varys - the rest of the people are their pawns.


This. I'm waiting for Littlefinger to drop a line from ASoS that puts every character into a neat, binary context that makes too much sense.

/I hope you know the one.
 
2013-07-26 04:22:17 PM  

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.

Thats because I'm not arguing.

Wow seriously implying someone is so dumb that they have to have something spelled out to them isn't argumentative. Is that what you're saying?

So you think its a coincidence that the three most important characters in the story just happened to have mothers who all died in childbirth?

Maybe it is maybe it isn't my point is if thats all you got look harder there is better evidence to support your theory.


At best its symbolism and/or just simple tragedy and has nothing to point towards the dwarf being a Targ.  There are plenty of Targs who don't have dead mothers, nor does the prophesy of three mention anything about dead mothers
 
2013-07-26 04:24:20 PM  

ShadowKamui: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: Egalitarian: Clash City Farker: Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion's mother all died in child birth.

Death by childbirth is pretty common when modern Western medical help isn't available. It sucks to be a woman in a 3rd world country and/or before the 20th century.

Thats denial. What does fat boy have to do spell it out for you?

Uhm your argument is the weakest I've heard in associated with the three heads of the dragon honestly, not saying you are wrong but yeah your argument is lacking.

Thats because I'm not arguing.

Wow seriously implying someone is so dumb that they have to have something spelled out to them isn't argumentative. Is that what you're saying?

So you think its a coincidence that the three most important characters in the story just happened to have mothers who all died in childbirth?

Maybe it is maybe it isn't my point is if thats all you got look harder there is better evidence to support your theory.

At best its symbolism and/or just simple tragedy and has nothing to point towards the dwarf being a Targ.  There are plenty of Targs who don't have dead mothers, nor does the prophesy of three mention anything about dead mothers


I'm with you I don't buy it either my point was that objectively that was some weak sauce.
 
2013-07-26 04:24:31 PM  

Carth: Either way your a jerk for trying to spoil the show for people who haven't read the books.


to be fair to him, this is clearly a book thread from the title. When its discussing filming/casting/etc then no spoilers is fair. when talking about martin needing to hurry up and write, book spoilers and speculation is fair game to my thinking
 
2013-07-26 04:27:11 PM  
Here's another reason to hurry up with the writing and the filming of the series:

Maisie Williams season 1 premier:
www.contactmusic.com

Maisie Williams at the season 3 premier:
wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net

And Isaac Hempstead Wright, the kid that plays Bran Stark, is now 5' 8" tall. Luckily, the guy playing Hodor is 6' 10' and makes everyone look like a little kid. But still, the younger cast members are rapidly outgrowing their characters.
 
2013-07-26 04:27:39 PM  
They've got at least another season's worth of material by telling stories from before the series started, e.g. robert's rebellion.  I'd also be very stoked to see the Jaime Lannister / Arthur Dayne / Smiling Knight story fleshed out from the few references that Martin made to it.
 
2013-07-26 04:28:03 PM  

tlchwi02: Carth: Either way your a jerk for trying to spoil the show for people who haven't read the books.

to be fair to him, this is clearly a book thread from the title. When its discussing filming/casting/etc then no spoilers is fair. when talking about martin needing to hurry up and write, book spoilers and speculation is fair game to my thinking


I agree this is a good thread to talk about the books in but going out of your way to spoil the series it for someone who specifically asked not to is a jerky thing to do.
 
2013-07-26 04:28:53 PM  

tlchwi02: Carth: Either way your a jerk for trying to spoil the show for people who haven't read the books.

to be fair to him, this is clearly a book thread from the title. When its discussing filming/casting/etc then no spoilers is fair. when talking about martin needing to hurry up and write, book spoilers and speculation is fair game to my thinking


No hes right I'm being a jerk but thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-07-26 04:30:41 PM  
I enjoy reading about speculations about fiction.   not a discussion of, for instance, the validity of a scientific theory, but how GRRM is going to interpret his story of a man who is killed then three days later comes back to life as a God.

like anyone would believe in resurection.
 
2013-07-26 04:31:18 PM  

Carth: I agree this is a good thread to talk about the books in but going out of your way to spoil the series it for someone who specifically asked not to is a jerky thing to do.


well, we have a LOT of  GOTTV threads on fark. I think the TV people can afford to let us book people have one where we can speculate freely.
 
2013-07-26 04:32:35 PM  

JolobinSmokin: Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. There is no evidence he is actually dead and a lot of evidence that he'll be back in winds of winter.

Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'

Evidence that he is not dead? not sure what you're looking for here except that Martin doesn't say he is dead and neither does anyone else. You shouldn't assume characters are dead just because bad things happen to them. His fate was deliberately left uncertain as a cliff hanger but the fact none of the questions alluded to him have been answered is a pretty big clue he isn't dead.

Evidence he will play a role in the next book? God there is tons going back the whole series. The most likely is his death scene is needed to fill the prophecy of AAR as it meets all the requirements and is a huge part of the story.

Looking at his death scene his knife wound  was described as smoking (a weird choice of phrases and appears deliberate) with salty tears falling on him. Ser Patrek's sigil  was mentioned as a star and falling on the ground. Could all be a coincidence or it could be a direct reference to TPTWP. e've seen Moqorro heal mortal wounds before and Melisandre is up there which makes his resurrection the last and easiest part of the prophecy to fill.

The fact the only time in the entire series "a song of ice and fire" is mentioned is when talking abo ...


So, John Snow is really, Rheager and lyssa's kid and was never Ned's bastard?

/my wife's theory up until he got ceasar/brutus'd.

He could be dead he could not be dead that is the question.  Whether tis nobler for martin is yet to be seen.


Since we've already seen a couple characters die and then get better, I don't think he's gone for good. Plus dying is a good way to get out of his vows to the Night Watch.
 
2013-07-26 04:33:42 PM  

ScaryBottles: LisaSimpson: Okay I wasn't going to bite with the ASOIF discussion but now I can't stop yelling at my screen:

From the books to suggest Jon Snow's story isn't over (note I didn't say he wasn't dead)

1. Read the prologue about Varamyr Sixskins from A Dance With Dragons.  It's all about wargs and what happens when they die.

2. Melisandre's chapter in ADWD when she is praying to the flames (around page 400 something):  The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again.  Now he was a man, now a wolf, and a man again.  But the skulls were there as well, the skulls were all around him.

3. Another from Melisandre:  I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor only shows me Snow.

4. Martin has said in interviews that readers will find out who Jon Snow's parents are by the end of the series.  I sat in on a talk the showrunners of Game of Thrones did last April in Los Angeles.  From the horses' mouthes, they know who his parents are (and they said parents, not mom).  They HEAVILLY implied they are Rhaygar and Leanna.  Sorry I don't have a link or anything, my source is I heard them say it.  Point being that this is still a big mystery.  If we were done with Jon Snow why would this information still be so important?  Who would benefit from this information?  Martin doesn't seem like the type of writer to just throw it in there in book 7 with the characters being like "GEE too bad Snow is dead!  He would have liked to know that!"

Finally, an excerpt from an interview Martin JUST gave on io9:

"Some major characters - yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing. "

The fact that he says "is" implies there is more to his stor ...


I didn't say I thought he would survive the series.  I'm not gonna assume that for anyone (except for Tyrion because Martin basically IS Tyrion and I think he's too attached to him).  I was suggesting his story isn't done yet.  I agree that he's not going to be the same, but we're not done hearing about him (ie Lady Stoneheart isn't dead, but she's definitely not who she was).

I also think Jon Snow has a bad case of what I call The Harry Potter Complex.  He seems to get a lot of attention and things seem to work out well for him for seemingly no reason (or maybe there is a reason).  I don't want to make it sound like I'm a huge Jon Snow fan.  I don't hate the guy but he's far from my favorite character.  I've met some people that think Jon Snow is perma-dead, and I don't understand how anyone could come to that conclusion given what we've read, and a little bit of critical thinking.  Thats what drives me crazy.

By the way, I want to punch in the face all the readers who want Jon Snow on the Iron throne married to Dany and living happily ever after.  There are a LOT of those fans out there, and that would be a HORRIBLE ending.
 
2013-07-26 04:36:00 PM  
Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.
 
2013-07-26 04:38:35 PM  
George R. R. Martin, Write Like the Wind!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2012/06/paul-storm-to-geo rg e-rr-martin-write-like-the-wind-video.html

(Which any Farkers who attend JCCC4 will no doubt see performed live...)
 
2013-07-26 04:41:26 PM  

ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.


You are a self-important prick.

Sincerely, just about everybody else on the planet.
 
2013-07-26 04:41:57 PM  

Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.


The were references to ice dragons in the last book, so the horn of winter probably awakens/controls them.  Also offers a counter balances to Danny's fire dragons
 
2013-07-26 04:42:50 PM  

Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.


I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from but I think they already did. I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall.
 
2013-07-26 04:44:15 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: ScaryBottles: ltdanman44: When the queen proclaims one king and the hand proclaims another, who do the gold cloaks follow?

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x306]

The man who pays them.

[img.pandawhale.com image 850x477]

/sorry
//my favorite charactor
///no spoilers, please!

John Snow dies at the end of book 5. If you crybabies don't want spoilers don't look up the series online.

Sincerely, people who know how to read.

You are a self-important prick.

Sincerely, just about everybody else on the planet.


Yeah maybe
 
2013-07-26 04:44:57 PM  

ShadowKamui: Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.

The were references to ice dragons in the last book, so the horn of winter probably awakens/controls them.  Also offers a counter balances to Danny's fire dragons


That would be pretty awesome too. Do we know whether his children's book "Ice Dragons" is set in the same world? Is it supposed to be a play on one of Old Naans tales?
 
2013-07-26 04:45:40 PM  

ScaryBottles: Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.

I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from but I think they already did. I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall.


I don't take anything personal on fark. When having a bad day I can be as jerky as anyone on the site.
 
2013-07-26 04:47:04 PM  

ScaryBottles: Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.

I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from but I think they already did. I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall.


I agree. Just think of the disaster though if one of the Watch decided to just give it a toot, though!
 
2013-07-26 04:48:23 PM  

Carth: ScaryBottles: Carth: Another question I"m hoping they talk about in the next book. Will anyone find the real Horn of Winter and will we get a chapter will the entire Wall comes crashing down.

I'm probably the last person you wanna hear from but I think they already did. I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall.

I don't take anything personal on fark. When having a bad day I can be as jerky as anyone on the site.


But yeah you're right the horn will come into play otherwise the white walkers don't get through and the story goes nowhere.
 
2013-07-26 04:49:43 PM  

Shostie: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

I figure they'll cover Feast and Dance at the same time, probably break the books into no fewer than three seasons.


The later books, 4-5 were originally much larger and were split east-west. Martin had mentioned something on his website about splitting a huge book into two large book and getting each of them out in short order...lying bastard that he is....no, not bitter...not at all...

anyway, it would make perfect sense to use some of the dropped material and re-integrate the books to stretch things out for 2-3 seasons.

Anyone want to take a trip to see George? I can get my hobbling block ready!
 
2013-07-26 04:53:10 PM  
Moodybastard:
Anyone want to take a trip to see George? I can get my hobbling block ready!

1.bp.blogspot.com

/I'm your biggest fan
 
2013-07-26 04:53:43 PM  

ScaryBottles: I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall


i think it actually was found after the battle of the wall and burned when they toasted rattleshirt
 
2013-07-26 04:55:09 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: I think it was the horn wrapped in the bundle of dragon glass weapons the watch found north of the wall

i think it actually was found after the battle of the wall and burned when they toasted rattleshirt


Actually that was a dragon horn that Stannis and Mel burned
 
2013-07-26 04:57:41 PM  

tlchwi02: Big Beef Burrito: What is your guess? I couldn't think of any one word. Maybe Arya, but I don't really remember if Brienne found out Arya was alive or not.

i'd say definetly arya, because she had just learned from the monks that the hound had been seen with arya (and he was quite certain of it.) I don't think she'd have cut brienne down for any other single word


"sword" was the word I believe. If I remember correctly, SH insisted she kill Jaime, Brienne refused. Then SH told her she could choose between the sword (to kill Jaime) and the noose. Brienne refused to choose, and the noose was applied. She then said one word, and as we know from ADwD, was released. It stands to reason that the word was "sword" I think.
 
2013-07-26 04:59:29 PM  

ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'



The following is in invisible text, to keep the pure at heart from seeing spoilers. Drag your mouse over it to read it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost" he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick him with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold ...
A dance with Dragons, hard cover edition. page 913.


How is Jon any deader than Arya?


[...]And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run.
His axe took her in the back of the head.
A Storm of Swords, soft cover edition. page 710.



There is no more proof that Jon is dead than there is proof he is alive.  In fact, barring his corpse floating down the Milkwater with Ghost's head sewn on it, I would personally put him as "status: Unknown."
 
2013-07-26 05:02:45 PM  

ctrlshiftspace: "sword" was the word I believe. If I remember correctly, SH insisted she kill Jaime, Brienne refused. Then SH told her she could choose between the sword (to kill Jaime) and the noose. Brienne refused to choose, and the noose was applied. She then said one word, and as we know from ADwD, was released. It stands to reason that the word was "sword" I think.


that just doesn't seem consistent with the brienne who up to this point has been pretty fearless/honorable. it seems odd she would suddenly wimp out and turn on jamie (or conversely swear she would kill jamie and then just say to heck with it as soon as she was out of sight and let her companions hang)
 
2013-07-26 05:06:51 PM  

Flab: ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


The following is in invisible text, to keep the pure at heart from seeing spoilers. Drag your mouse over it to read it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost" he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick him with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold ...
A dance with Dragons, hard cover edition. page 913.


How is Jon any deader than Arya?


[...]And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run.
His axe took her in the back of the head.
A Storm of Swords, soft cover edition. page 710.

There is no more proof that Jon is dead than there is proof he is alive.  In fact, barring his corpse floating down the Milkwater with Ghost's head sewn on it, I would personally put him as "status: Unknown."


I agree I'm just sick of the knee jerk reaction Snow fans have on this. And yeah being stabbed for times is a little more explicit than "the ax took her in the back of the head." The books doesn't say John was taken by four daggers it says he felt them entering his body. But like you said there really isn't enough information to say yea or nay, but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you. Also frankly based on your "evidence" alone I would have to conclude he is dead as fried chicken I'm just glad GRRM has more imagination than you.
 
2013-07-26 05:08:22 PM  
Full seasons of the popular Bleach anime cartoon have been dedicated to television only backstory/sidestory to give the author time to continue the series at his pace.

There is plenty of material available to do this from scratch, like Bleach does, or using existing material, like the Dunk and Egg comics.  It's not an optimal solution, but it has been done previously with success and something will probably need to happen to keep the series going.

Hell, who doesn't want Sean Bean to come back and act out Ned vs Arthur Dayne, or see a season dedicated to Robert's Rebellion with the Battle of the Trident as the finale? These are the stories that this type of scenario can flesh out, and, honestly, they're stories that readers have been itching for for over a decade
 
2013-07-26 05:12:02 PM  

bhcompy: Full seasons of the popular Bleach anime cartoon have been dedicated to television only backstory/sidestory to give the author time to continue the series at his pace.

There is plenty of material available to do this from scratch, like Bleach does, or using existing material, like the Dunk and Egg comics.  It's not an optimal solution, but it has been done previously with success and something will probably need to happen to keep the series going.

Hell, who doesn't want Sean Bean to come back and act out Ned vs Arthur Dayne, or see a season dedicated to Robert's Rebellion with the Battle of the Trident as the finale? These are the stories that this type of scenario can flesh out, and, honestly, they're stories that readers have been itching for for over a decade


The first volume of the World of Ice and Fire,comes out in 2014. It would be pretty awesome if HBO took 3-4 of the best stories from it and turned them into 4 episode miniseries and aired a new one every few months. It would keep people's interest up and give Martin time to finish the series.
 
2013-07-26 05:12:13 PM  

tlchwi02: ctrlshiftspace: "sword" was the word I believe. If I remember correctly, SH insisted she kill Jaime, Brienne refused. Then SH told her she could choose between the sword (to kill Jaime) and the noose. Brienne refused to choose, and the noose was applied. She then said one word, and as we know from ADwD, was released. It stands to reason that the word was "sword" I think.

that just doesn't seem consistent with the brienne who up to this point has been pretty fearless/honorable. it seems odd she would suddenly wimp out and turn on jamie (or conversely swear she would kill jamie and then just say to heck with it as soon as she was out of sight and let her companions hang)


It could be GRRM knocking Brienne off her high horse. Showing her the world isn't black and white as much as she would like it to be. Essentially she is caught between two equally noble vows that are at complete odds with each other either way she suffers dishonor due to circumstances she had nothing to do with. This is Brienne's grow the fark up moment.
 
2013-07-26 05:14:23 PM  

ScaryBottles: It could be GRRM knocking Brienne off her high horse. Showing her the world isn't black and white as much as she would like it to be. Essentially she is caught between two equally noble vows that are at complete odds with each other either way she suffers dishonor due to circumstances she had nothing to do with. This is Brienne's grow the fark up moment.


that would imply however that she is about to kill jaime. not that she couldn't just go ahead and lop of his head as soon as they are out of sight of the camp, but it just seems to so unlikely... on the other hand, just when you start to like someone is usually when they get stabbed right in the eye, so it would be in keeping with him
 
2013-07-26 05:15:45 PM  

ScaryBottles: Flab: ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


The following is in invisible text, to keep the pure at heart from seeing spoilers. Drag your mouse over it to read it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost" he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick him with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold ...
A dance with Dragons, hard cover edition. page 913.


How is Jon any deader than Arya?


[...]And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run.
His axe took her in the back of the head.
A Storm of Swords, soft cover edition. page 710.

There is no more proof that Jon is dead than there is proof he is alive.  In fact, barring his corpse floating down the Milkwater with Ghost's head sewn on it, I would personally put him as "status: Unknown."

I agree I'm just sick of the knee jerk reaction Snow fans have on this. And yeah being stabbed for times is a little more explicit than "the ax took her in the back of the head." The books doesn't say John was taken by four daggers it says he felt them entering his body. But like you said there really isn't enough information to say yea or nay, but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you. Also frankly based on your "evidence" alone I would have to conclude he is dead as fried chicken I'm just glad GRRM has more imagination than you.


He's paralyzed at the very least.
 
2013-07-26 05:17:12 PM  

ScaryBottles: but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you.


Huh?  I'm actually saying I don't know.  I thought the "status: unknown" and "there is no more evidence he's dead than he's alive" would make that clear enough.  What makes you think I think he's alive?
 
2013-07-26 05:17:28 PM  

tlchwi02: that just doesn't seem consistent with the brienne who up to this point has been pretty fearless/honorable. it seems odd she would suddenly wimp out and turn on jamie (or conversely swear she would kill jamie and then just say to heck with it as soon as she was out of sight and let her companions hang)


I was wondering what the eff the word was. That makes sense
 
2013-07-26 05:19:54 PM  

bulok: naughtyrev: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

They'll just mash 4 and 5 together - they happen mostly simultaneously anyhow, so there's no real impact except for people who are trying to read the books and aren't caught up .

Not like it was ever done before on television, right?


upload.wikimedia.orgd202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.netomeka.rlnunez.com
Right.
 
2013-07-26 05:21:55 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: ScaryBottles: Flab: ScaryBottles: Really? Citations for this supposed evidence, difficulty no fans sites or theories. Just the books period. I'll wait and I have all five within reach literally. (my apartment is a shoebox) So yeah proof or quit your cryin'


The following is in invisible text, to keep the pure at heart from seeing spoilers. Drag your mouse over it to read it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost" he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick him with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold ...
A dance with Dragons, hard cover edition. page 913.


How is Jon any deader than Arya?


[...]And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run.
His axe took her in the back of the head.
A Storm of Swords, soft cover edition. page 710.

There is no more proof that Jon is dead than there is proof he is alive.  In fact, barring his corpse floating down the Milkwater with Ghost's head sewn on it, I would personally put him as "status: Unknown."

I agree I'm just sick of the knee jerk reaction Snow fans have on this. And yeah being stabbed for times is a little more explicit than "the ax took her in the back of the head." The books doesn't say John was taken by four daggers it says he felt them entering his body. But like you said there really isn't enough information to say yea or nay, but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you. Also frankly based on your "evidence" alone I would have to conclude he is dead as fried chicken I'm just glad GRRM has more imagination than you.

He's paralyzed at the very least.


Eh, he could have been in shock. Or, Ghost...
 
2013-07-26 05:24:46 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: It could be GRRM knocking Brienne off her high horse. Showing her the world isn't black and white as much as she would like it to be. Essentially she is caught between two equally noble vows that are at complete odds with each other either way she suffers dishonor due to circumstances she had nothing to do with. This is Brienne's grow the fark up moment.

that would imply however that she is about to kill jaime. not that she couldn't just go ahead and lop of his head as soon as they are out of sight of the camp, but it just seems to so unlikely... on the other hand, just when you start to like someone is usually when they get stabbed right in the eye, so it would be in keeping with him


My point exactly the normal rules don't really apply here, I mean everyone assumes Dany will make it because of her dragons but even that is no guarantee as all thats really necessary to bond with them is Targ blood and a strong will. Quenton was fine until he lost focus and he didn't even have any Targ blood so that might not even be necessary. Someone has to ride the dragons probably of Targ blood but it seems like new Targs are popping up everywhere and nowhere does the prophesy say it has to be the one who hatched them to ride them. Thats what I love about this series you never know where he is gonna take it and as stingy as GRRM is with information about future releases we will probably never see it coming.
 
2013-07-26 05:25:12 PM  
This. I'm waiting for Littlefinger to drop a line from ASoS that puts every character into a neat, binary context that makes too much sense.

/I hope you know the one.
 
2013-07-26 05:25:53 PM  

give me doughnuts: Here's another reason to hurry up with the writing and the filming of the series:

Maisie Williams season 1 premier:
[www.contactmusic.com image 500x750]

Maisie Williams at the season 3 premier:
[wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net image 500x719]

And Isaac Hempstead Wright, the kid that plays Bran Stark, is now 5' 8" tall. Luckily, the guy playing Hodor is 6' 10' and makes everyone look like a little kid. But still, the younger cast members are rapidly outgrowing their characters.


She cleans up quite nicely.
 
2013-07-26 05:27:10 PM  

Flab: ScaryBottles: but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you.

Huh?  I'm actually saying I don't know.  I thought the "status: unknown" and "there is no more evidence he's dead than he's alive" would make that clear enough.  What makes you think I think he's alive?


Then why did you elaborate on the evidence of his survival? Instead like I said saying shut up bro you don't know squat which would have been a valid response in my opinion.
 
2013-07-26 05:30:06 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons


Couldn't agree more...I came to the conclusion reading the 2nd book the Daenerys is the REAL protagonist in the story...
 
2013-07-26 05:31:30 PM  

ScaryBottles: My point exactly the normal rules don't really apply here, I mean everyone assumes Dany will make it because of her dragons but even that is no guarantee as all thats really necessary to bond with them is Targ blood and a strong will. Quenton was fine until he lost focus and he didn't even have any Targ blood so that might not even be necessary. Someone has to ride the dragons probably of Targ blood but it seems like new Targs are popping up everywhere and nowhere does the prophesy say it has to be the one who hatched them to ride them. Thats what I love about this series you never know where he is gonna take it and as stingy as GRRM is with information about future releases we will probably never see it coming.


true, and martin can (and does) kill anyone he feels like. That said, i think brienne turning traitor with no warning would be very much out of character and i would be a little dissapointed in her as a character if the outcome was as blunt as her just stabbing jamie in the back
 
2013-07-26 05:34:00 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: My point exactly the normal rules don't really apply here, I mean everyone assumes Dany will make it because of her dragons but even that is no guarantee as all thats really necessary to bond with them is Targ blood and a strong will. Quenton was fine until he lost focus and he didn't even have any Targ blood so that might not even be necessary. Someone has to ride the dragons probably of Targ blood but it seems like new Targs are popping up everywhere and nowhere does the prophesy say it has to be the one who hatched them to ride them. Thats what I love about this series you never know where he is gonna take it and as stingy as GRRM is with information about future releases we will probably never see it coming.

true, and martin can (and does) kill anyone he feels like. That said, i think brienne turning traitor with no warning would be very much out of character and i would be a little dissapointed in her as a character if the outcome was as blunt as her just stabbing jamie in the back


Well since no one asked I'll tell you. I think Brienne plans to turn him over LS so she won't have to do the deed herself but won't go through with it in the end.
 
2013-07-26 05:34:44 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: [images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 574x382]
Three years. For three years I warned you this day was coming, but you would not listen. Don't worry, you said, he'll finish. And now Martin has run out of released material. Showtime has 'Homeland', 'Mad Men' is wrapping up, even Fx has 'American Horror Story' and 'The Americans'. The pride was yours, the presumption was yours. For a thousand years, we have been awaiting the conclusion of the book series. And when it doesn't happens, you scorn it, you reject it because you you think you can wrap it up in a collosal clusterfark like 'True Blood'. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. The North remembers." You go to Comic Con and plaster the words, but your intent is empty, your ears closed except to churn out sex and violence. You stand for nothing but your own petty interests. "Meh, we'll just get another hot fantasy series." I do not blame you for standing silent in your shame. You, who knew what was coming, but refused to take up the burden of this war. If the executives will not wrap up the series, then the rest of us will. HBO has lost it's way. If it will not lead, if you have abandoned our commitment to excellence to Television, then we're cancelling our service, as we should have after you cancelled 'Deadwood'. We must stand with the others now before it's too late. Between the internet and Netflix, there is enough streaming media to entertain us. To you, I say, listen to the voice of your conscience. Wrap up the series and come with me. The time for meandering is over. We move now, together or not at all.


Gold Clap/Slow Clap.
 
2013-07-26 05:35:35 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: My point exactly the normal rules don't really apply here, I mean everyone assumes Dany will make it because of her dragons but even that is no guarantee as all thats really necessary to bond with them is Targ blood and a strong will. Quenton was fine until he lost focus and he didn't even have any Targ blood so that might not even be necessary. Someone has to ride the dragons probably of Targ blood but it seems like new Targs are popping up everywhere and nowhere does the prophesy say it has to be the one who hatched them to ride them. Thats what I love about this series you never know where he is gonna take it and as stingy as GRRM is with information about future releases we will probably never see it coming.

true, and martin can (and does) kill anyone he feels like. That said, i think brienne turning traitor with no warning would be very much out of character and i would be a little dissapointed in her as a character if the outcome was as blunt as her just stabbing jamie in the back


Otherwise like you said why not knife him as soon as they are out of sight of KL and lug the corpse to LS.
 
2013-07-26 05:36:52 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: imontheinternet: I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The show and the books will have two different endings.  GRRM is going to kill someone off that HBO won't go along with, like Tyrion or Dany, and the two stories will diverge.

The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.


Probably because no one gives a fark about the kingsmoot.
 
2013-07-26 05:40:38 PM  
img4.joyreactor.com
 
2013-07-26 05:45:15 PM  

give me doughnuts: tallguywithglasseson: Killing off Snow would be fine.. helps move the plot along, helps get the Others getting past the Wall, to their ultimate battle with Westeros, after the Targaryans and their Dragons have won it back with the help of Varys.

Snow may well die. I just doubt he's dead... yet.

John Snow will live. The sword Light Bringer will be remade, and Snow will quench the newly-reforged blade by running it through Dany's chest.


Interesting...I think more likely Mellisandre...
 
2013-07-26 05:49:47 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: The Stealth Hippopotamus: imontheinternet: I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The show and the books will have two different endings.  GRRM is going to kill someone off that HBO won't go along with, like Tyrion or Dany, and the two stories will diverge.

The stories have already begun to diverge. I only read it once but I think I would have remembered Sister Greyjoy going after her brother.

Probably because no one gives a fark about the kingsmoot.


Disagree, the Kingsmoot is where Crow's Eye gains control of the Ironborn and executes his plan to woo Dany with the promise of ships and support. This is what kickstarts Victarion's storyline and the iron fleet's trip to Essos. It would make very little narrative sense to have a guy with hundreds of ships sailing to another person who needs hundreds of ships and not have them meet up. So when it comes down to it Victarion and Crow's Eye are more valuable than all other the peripheral characters of her story arc, of course with the exception of Illyro, Viserys and Drogo as without them she wouldn't have her dragons. The only reason Victarion and Crow's Eye matter is because one of them will be crowned king at the Kingsmoot and gain control of the Iron fleet which will bring Dany across the narrow sea. So yeah who would give a fark about the Kingsmoot.
 
2013-07-26 05:51:43 PM  

Walt_Jizzney: give me doughnuts: tallguywithglasseson: Killing off Snow would be fine.. helps move the plot along, helps get the Others getting past the Wall, to their ultimate battle with Westeros, after the Targaryans and their Dragons have won it back with the help of Varys.

Snow may well die. I just doubt he's dead... yet.

John Snow will live. The sword Light Bringer will be remade, and Snow will quench the newly-reforged blade by running it through Dany's chest.

Interesting...I think more likely Mellisandre...


Or as I said you already have a prophetic savior that sacrificed someone she loved to gain the ultimate weapon. Even if Snow lives there is no way he's AAR/TPTWP
 
2013-07-26 05:58:52 PM  

ScaryBottles: So yeah who would give a fark about the Kingsmoot.


Not me. She can get the ships anywhere, they don't need to be manned by the Iron born.
 
2013-07-26 06:03:10 PM  

ScaryBottles: Flab: ScaryBottles: but it is telling that you rushed to illustrate he might be alive rather than saying I don't know and neither do you.

Huh?  I'm actually saying I don't know.  I thought the "status: unknown" and "there is no more evidence he's dead than he's alive" would make that clear enough.  What makes you think I think he's alive?

Then why did you elaborate on the evidence of his survival? Instead like I said saying shut up bro you don't know squat which would have been a valid response in my opinion.


I'm elaborating on evidence of his status being UNCERTAIN. That is all.

Please pick a fight with those who actually have said he's not dead.
 
2013-07-26 06:03:49 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ScaryBottles: So yeah who would give a fark about the Kingsmoot.

Not me. She can get the ships anywhere, they don't need to be manned by the Iron born.


Actually the thing is she can't get ships anywhere according to the books thats half the reason she is still in Mereen.
 
2013-07-26 06:04:36 PM  

ScaryBottles: Even if Snow lives there is no way he's AAR/TPTWP


"He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"

Jon is the son of Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice)

Good lord, there is literally no way this could be more telegraphed.

I get the feeling that you were caught off guard by the twist in "The Sixth Sense" the second time you saw it.
 
2013-07-26 06:08:50 PM  
Jon Snow is AA.

Aegon is TPTWP, his is the song of ice and fire"
 
2013-07-26 06:10:31 PM  

ScaryBottles: Actually the thing is she can't get ships anywhere according to the books thats half the reason she is still in Mereen.


I thought she stayed there because she saw what happened last time she left a power vacuum. Also she is getting some Queening practice in before she takes the Iron Throne.
 
2013-07-26 06:14:05 PM  
Arya the assassin will be fun,.
 
2013-07-26 06:17:34 PM  
Other things I want to see happen we haven't. I want someone to warg into a dragon in the next book.
 
2013-07-26 06:17:43 PM  
kbronsito
My two Hodor theories:
1. Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne.


I think it would be funny if Sansa Stark ends up to be the ruler of Westeros more or less by accident in a similar "the only winning move is not to play" way.
Basically everybody in the Game of Thrones has been exploiting her naivety and has pushed her passive ass around as a playball without actually thinking about her - merely thinking about how they could profit from her but never considering her herself, completely ignoring the possibility of her picking up a trick or two along the way and growing up to become a player, especially now that she's haning out with Littlefinger.

* With everybody assuming her brothers are dead, she's already heir to the North and possibly Riverrun.

* As Tyiron's wife she should have a good claim to the throne of the Lannisters, what with Jamie being out of the running as a Kingsguard.
(I really like the idea of her forced, laughed-at marriage to Tyrion accidentally coming back to bite the schemers' into their backsides)

* Littlefinger was working hard to control the Vale and with Littlefinger teaching her and trying to get into her pant(ie)s, I could see

a) etiher her simply ending up with her auntie's Vale due to scheming and with Littlefinger's Herrenhal fortress because someone offs Littlefinger and he has prveiously [married her as a presumed widow | made her his heiress in a will | put everything into her name for tax reasons | whatever ] or
b) given that Littlefinger has taken her under his wings and she has already started losing her naivety a bit, I could see some Sith-like Master/Apprentice thing with her realizing the power she has over him thanks to his lust for her as her mom's replacement; being used to being abused, she lies back and thinks of Engl..Westeros and plays along until the time is right to (maybe literally) backstab the bastard and ending up with all his stuff

That's quite a nice chunk of Westeros already.
 
2013-07-26 06:31:50 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Even if Snow lives there is no way he's AAR/TPTWP

"He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"

Jon is the son of Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice)

Good lord, there is literally no way this could be more telegraphed.

I get the feeling that you were caught off guard by the twist in "The Sixth Sense" the second time you saw it.


See though there are these prophesies you know and to make them fit Jon takes more than a little embellishment as opposed to Dany who fits them all with no need for alteration. But thats too simple for you isn't it? There has to be some huge twist that GRRM wanted to keep hidden but you figured it out! Just because you think you're smarter than someone else doesn't mean you are. I love that you used the Sixth Sense as an example though as its this same type of asshatery that has flushed Shaymalan's career down the toilet, bet you never saw that coming stupid moviegoers! I'm the smartest guy ever!
 
2013-07-26 06:32:58 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: [images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 574x382]
Three years. For three years I warned you this day was coming, but you would not listen. Don't worry, you said, he'll finish. And now Martin has run out of released material. Showtime has 'Homeland', 'Mad Men' is wrapping up, even Fx has 'American Horror Story' and 'The Americans'. The pride was yours, the presumption was yours. For a thousand years, we have been awaiting the conclusion of the book series. And when it doesn't happens, you scorn it, you reject it because you you think you can wrap it up in a collosal clusterfark like 'True Blood'. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. The North remembers." You go to Comic Con and plaster the words, but your intent is empty, your ears closed except to churn out sex and violence. You stand for nothing but your own petty interests. "Meh, we'll just get another hot fantasy series." I do not blame you for standing silent in your shame. You, who knew what was coming, but refused to take up the burden of this war. If the executives will not wrap up the series, then the rest of us will. HBO has lost it's way. If it will not lead, if you have abandoned our commitment to excellence to Television, then we're cancelling our service, as we should have after you cancelled 'Deadwood'. We must stand with the others now before it's too late. Between the internet and Netflix, there is enough streaming media to entertain us. To you, I say, listen to the voice of your conscience. Wrap up the series and come with me. The time for meandering is over. We move now, together or not at all.


What show is that image and quote from?
 
2013-07-26 06:34:00 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Even if Snow lives there is no way he's AAR/TPTWP

"He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"

Jon is the son of Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice)

Good lord, there is literally no way this could be more telegraphed.

I get the feeling that you were caught off guard by the twist in "The Sixth Sense" the second time you saw it.


Plus Targaryians (sp) historically inbred. Jon will eventually marry Danny. It's a simple matter of who the 3rd dragon rider will be. They'll ride into kings landing and destroy the place (like Danny was shown in the house of whatever its called, while looking for the dragons). From there, they'll have to fight some mystical being and the white walkers. Bran will play a savior in that somehow. Aria will be the one to kill Cersi. Sansa will whine and biatch and moan.
 
2013-07-26 06:35:20 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ScaryBottles: Actually the thing is she can't get ships anywhere according to the books thats half the reason she is still in Mereen.

I thought she stayed there because she saw what happened last time she left a power vacuum. Also she is getting some Queening practice in before she takes the Iron Throne.


She is but if she had ships it would be a lot easier to walk away now wouldn't it. Not to mention the fact that she considers Xaro's offer before declining  declines because the 15 he offered was nowhere near enough to carry her army across the narrow sea so I don't think an offer for enough ships would be turned down.
 
2013-07-26 06:36:31 PM  

shortymac: What show is that image and quote from?


Babylon 5 . Thats DeLenn addressing the Gray Council   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22aMIOa35ko">http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=22aMIOa35ko
 
2013-07-26 07:06:46 PM  
i1125.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-26 07:10:52 PM  
The Wild Cards books are right there. Just sayin'.
 
2013-07-26 07:40:32 PM  

The Voice of Doom: kbronsito
My two Hodor theories:
1. Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne.

I think it would be funny if Sansa Stark ends up to be the ruler of Westeros more or less by accident in a similar "the only winning move is not to play" way.
Basically everybody in the Game of Thrones has been exploiting her naivety and has pushed her passive ass around as a playball without actually thinking about her - merely thinking about how they could profit from her but never considering her herself, completely ignoring the possibility of her picking up a trick or two along the way and growing up to become a player, especially now that she's haning out with Littlefinger.

* With everybody assuming her brothers are dead, she's already heir to the North and possibly Riverrun.

* As Tyiron's wife she should have a good claim to the throne of the Lannisters, what with Jamie being out of the running as a Kingsguard.
(I really like the idea of her forced, laughed-at marriage to Tyrion accidentally coming back to bite the schemers' into their backsides)

* Littlefinger was working hard to control the Vale and with Littlefinger teaching her and trying to get into her pant(ie)s, I could see

a) etiher her simply ending up with her auntie's Vale due to scheming and with Littlefinger's Herrenhal fortress because someone offs Littlefinger and he has prveiously [married her as a presumed widow | made her his heiress in a will | put everything into her name for tax reasons | whatever ] or
b) given that Littlefinger has taken her under his wings and she has already started losing her naivety a bit, I could see some Sith-like Master/Apprentice thing with her realizing the power she has over him thanks to his lust for her as her mom's replacement; being used to being abused, she lies back and thinks of Engl..Westeros and plays along until the time is right to (maybe literally) backstab the bastard and ending up with all his stuff

That's quite a nice chunk of Westeros already.


Agreed. She will definitely play a bigger part later on.

So far, the only person who hasn't had his plans blow up in his face is Littlefinger. He's bound to have his comeuppance sooner of later. And when he does, Sansa will be standing there holding the titles to all of Westeror except Dorne and Highgarden.
 
2013-07-26 07:56:11 PM  

tlchwi02: ctrlshiftspace: "sword" was the word I believe. If I remember correctly, SH insisted she kill Jaime, Brienne refused. Then SH told her she could choose between the sword (to kill Jaime) and the noose. Brienne refused to choose, and the noose was applied. She then said one word, and as we know from ADwD, was released. It stands to reason that the word was "sword" I think.

that just doesn't seem consistent with the brienne who up to this point has been pretty fearless/honorable. it seems odd she would suddenly wimp out and turn on jamie (or conversely swear she would kill jamie and then just say to heck with it as soon as she was out of sight and let her companions hang)


Because it wasn't just her life that was in trouble, it was her other companions' lives as well. SH gave her a no-win option morally.
 
2013-07-26 09:04:12 PM  

Hilarity_N_Sues: The Wild Cards books are right there. Just sayin'.


I like how you think, BUT, SyFy bought the rights to Wild Cards a while back. Given that they've just ditched Alphas, it seems highly unlikely that SyFy will be doing anything with Wild Cards in the near future.

/Maybe HBO will make SyFy an offer.
//Not holding my breath though.
///No, it doesn't make me happy to rain on your parade.
 
2013-07-26 09:18:04 PM  
If we assume two seasons for Book 3, then they're only halfway through that. If we then assume that this is the rate they'll be going at thereafter, that's another four seasons for the 4-5 mishmash. That's plenty of time to get Book 6 out at the absolute least, and that's not even counting the two more seasons it'll take to televise that. HBO is not "running out" of anything, so you entitled little fanboys can sit back and learn some patience.
 
2013-07-26 09:20:50 PM  
I doubt they will outpace him.  Part of the delay was, in his own words, about letting the series build to the point there was significant interest in a series and then actually developing the series with HBO.
Even if they somehow catch up in five seasons (if it is still on) you could get another five seasons just by interspersing relevant flashbacks.  Another three if you recycle his Beauty and the Beast scripts and toss in some Dunk.
 
2013-07-26 10:13:13 PM  

tlchwi02: ctrlshiftspace: "sword" was the word I believe. If I remember correctly, SH insisted she kill Jaime, Brienne refused. Then SH told her she could choose between the sword (to kill Jaime) and the noose. Brienne refused to choose, and the noose was applied. She then said one word, and as we know from ADwD, was released. It stands to reason that the word was "sword" I think.

that just doesn't seem consistent with the brienne who up to this point has been pretty fearless/honorable. it seems odd she would suddenly wimp out and turn on jamie (or conversely swear she would kill jamie and then just say to heck with it as soon as she was out of sight and let her companions hang)


"Arya" who just just found out has been recently seen very much alive. It would be much more likely to get Mother Merciless' attention than "sword."
 
2013-07-26 10:53:33 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: bulok: Not like it was ever done before on television, right?

Glad someone mentioned this. An entire show that was basically a giant middle finger to the audience and yet they tuned in every week and kept eating that shiat up.


You say middle finger like its a bad thing.
 
2013-07-26 10:57:44 PM  

Old Man Winter: Even if they somehow catch up in five seasons (if it is still on) you could get another five seasons just by interspersing relevant flashbacks. Another three if you recycle his Beauty and the Beast scripts and toss in some Dunk.


You can't reuse Beauty and the Beast for something like this. It's way too depressing, with everyone dying and all... oh, wait...
 
2013-07-26 11:41:40 PM  
Re Hodor: I think there are allusions to him being the love child of Ser Duncan the Tall (dunk and egg novellas) and Nan. Does anyone else recall this or did I dream it?
 
2013-07-27 12:13:16 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons


This is blatantly obvious when the name of the book series is 'A Song of Ice and Fire'. shiat should hopefully start going down in book 6 with winter having arrived.


ScaryBottles: Freudian_slipknot: ScaryBottles: Even if Snow lives there is no way he's AAR/TPTWP

"He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"

Jon is the son of Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice)

Good lord, there is literally no way this could be more telegraphed.

I get the feeling that you were caught off guard by the twist in "The Sixth Sense" the second time you saw it.

See though there are these prophesies you know and to make them fit Jon takes more than a little embellishment as opposed to Dany who fits them all with no need for alteration. But thats too simple for you isn't it? There has to be some huge twist that GRRM wanted to keep hidden but you figured it out! Just because you think you're smarter than someone else doesn't mean you are. I love that you used the Sixth Sense as an example though as its this same type of asshatery that has flushed Shaymalan's career down the toilet, bet you never saw that coming stupid moviegoers! I'm the smartest guy ever!


If that isn't Jon Snow's part to play, GRRM sure is throwing a lot of red herrings out there. He could have chosen any way to describe the scenes at the end of Dance, but we get a bleeding star(the guy being torn apart by the giant had a star as his sigil), 'smoking' wounds, and tears for salt. That and Melisandre seeing nothing but Jon in her fires while seeking AA.

Also there's nothing saying 'the prince who was promised' and AA are the same person, the two prophecies seem to be separate.
 
2013-07-27 12:33:59 AM  

ScaryBottles: WhippingBoy: What the hell happened here???

Someone got on my nerves so I decided to ruin the thread.


Have you no honor, Threadslayer?
 
2013-07-27 12:35:43 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: bulok: Not like it was ever done before on television, right?

Glad someone mentioned this. An entire show that was basically a giant middle finger to the audience and yet they tuned in every week and kept eating that shiat up.


LOST?
 
2013-07-27 12:58:38 AM  

ScaryBottles: tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: It could be GRRM knocking Brienne off her high horse. Showing her the world isn't black and white as much as she would like it to be. Essentially she is caught between two equally noble vows that are at complete odds with each other either way she suffers dishonor due to circumstances she had nothing to do with. This is Brienne's grow the fark up moment.

that would imply however that she is about to kill jaime. not that she couldn't just go ahead and lop of his head as soon as they are out of sight of the camp, but it just seems to so unlikely... on the other hand, just when you start to like someone is usually when they get stabbed right in the eye, so it would be in keeping with him

My point exactly the normal rules don't really apply here, I mean everyone assumes Dany will make it because of her dragons but even that is no guarantee as all thats really necessary to bond with them is Targ blood and a strong will. Quenton was fine until he lost focus and he didn't even have any Targ blood so that might not even be necessary. Someone has to ride the dragons probably of Targ blood but it seems like new Targs are popping up everywhere and nowhere does the prophesy say it has to be the one who hatched them to ride them. Thats what I love about this series you never know where he is gonna take it and as stingy as GRRM is with information about future releases we will probably never see it coming.


If you take everything from the visions of Quaithe Dany was getting at face value(they name the boat Tyrion was on, as well as the sigils of everyone who was at that point headed her direction) it's heavily implied that 'young griff' is an imposter. And I don't think Quentyn was at any point in control of the situation in the dragon pit.
 
2013-07-27 01:41:31 AM  

The Voice of Doom: kbronsito
My two Hodor theories:
1. Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne.

I think it would be funny if Sansa Stark ends up to be the ruler of Westeros more or less by accident in a similar "the only winning move is not to play" way.
Basically everybody in the Game of Thrones has been exploiting her naivety and has pushed her passive ass around as a playball without actually thinking about her - merely thinking about how they could profit from her but never considering her herself, completely ignoring the possibility of her picking up a trick or two along the way and growing up to become a player, especially now that she's haning out with Littlefinger.

* With everybody assuming her brothers are dead, she's already heir to the North and possibly Riverrun.

* As Tyiron's wife she should have a good claim to the throne of the Lannisters, what with Jamie being out of the running as a Kingsguard.
(I really like the idea of her forced, laughed-at marriage to Tyrion accidentally coming back to bite the schemers' into their backsides)

* Littlefinger was working hard to control the Vale and with Littlefinger teaching her and trying to get into her pant(ie)s, I could see

a) etiher her simply ending up with her auntie's Vale due to scheming and with Littlefinger's Herrenhal fortress because someone offs Littlefinger and he has prveiously [married her as a presumed widow | made her his heiress in a will | put everything into her name for tax reasons | whatever ] or
b) given that Littlefinger has taken her under his wings and she has already started losing her naivety a bit, I could see some Sith-like Master/Apprentice thing with her realizing the power she has over him thanks to his lust for her as her mom's replacement; being used to being abused, she lies back and thinks of Engl..Westeros and plays along until the time is right to (maybe literally) backstab the bastard and ending up with all his stuff

That's qu ...


She'd be heir to the North, but there are several people in line for Riverrun before her, even if you remove Bran/Rickon from the equation. Edmure, Edmure's child, and Brynden Tully all come before her, but that's even assuming that any of those three are able/willing to regain Riverrun AND the Tully's are restored to the Lord Paramounts of the Trident (something Baelish is apt to want to keep). You might also have to consider the Frey's claim to Riverrun since we're entertaining the possibility of a matrilineal inheritance.

Either way she's betrothed to the heir of the Vale, the North would rise to her cause since almost everyone hates the Boltons and/or the Boltons might be dead shortly, and the Riverlands would likely prefer to have the Tullys back over Baelish or the Freys. She is going to be sitting pretty but I'm pretty sure if it happens Baelish is either going to be king or dead.
 
kab
2013-07-27 01:50:42 AM  
Anyone familiar with this series prior to HBO's involvement knew this would be a problem.    Tool writes faster, for chrissakes.    I'll honestly be amazed if he lives long enough to actually finish it. (oh hai, Robert farking Jordan)

Also, this thread is devoid of Natalie Dormer pics, and for that, I am disappoint.
 
2013-07-27 01:56:18 AM  

kab: Anyone familiar with this series prior to HBO's involvement knew this would be a problem.    Tool writes faster, for chrissakes.    I'll honestly be amazed if he lives long enough to actually finish it. (oh hai, Robert farking Jordan)

Also, this thread is devoid of Natalie Dormer pics, and for that, I am disappoint.


The queen doesn't have time to pose for you. She's trying out her new crossbow.
 
2013-07-27 04:47:54 AM  
The series will end by god. Unfinished. Grrm will pass away due to a massive heart attack incurred while he is making brutal violent love to a honey glazed roasted ham.

But really -- they will drag books 4 and 5 into THREE seasons. Easily. People should have seen this coming. Lord knows the roasted ham should see it coming -- the way grrm looks at it with crazed angry lust in his eyes. He WISHES he could finish the next book by 2015 -- he will finish book 6 by 2017 and it will suck even worse than DwD -- I said it once and i will say it again -- abandon hope. Loving this series is like pining for a girl you had a crush on in high school and watching her rebuke your affections as she slowly devolves into a crack hooker. Ahead is only sadness and heartbreak. And not because of anything that happens in the story. More because grrm will die pounding his dick into a chunk of over processed luncheon meat.

\Anyone else has suspicion grrm is watching us? Tossing shiat into the fan? Leaving tiny spoilers? I know i has suspicions. Get back to writing george -- dont you have a ham to bang?
 
2013-07-27 05:50:37 AM  

redmid17: She'd be heir to the North, but there are several people in line for Riverrun before her, even if you remove Bran/Rickon from the equation. Edmure, Edmure's child, and Brynden Tully all come before her, but that's even assuming that any of those three are able/willing to regain Riverrun AND the Tully's are restored to the Lord Paramounts of the Trident (something Baelish is apt to want to keep). You might also have to consider the Frey's claim to Riverrun since we're entertaining the possibility of a matrilineal inheritance.

Either way she's betrothed to the heir of the Vale, the North would rise to her cause since almost everyone hates the Boltons and/or the Boltons might be dead shortly, and the Riverlands would likely prefer to have the Tullys back over Baelish or the Freys. She is going to be sitting pretty but I'm pretty sure if it happens Baelish is either going to be king or dead.


My guess is she's going to find out all the things he did that lent a hand in her family's demise. Then, when his great plan comes to fruition and he stands there, world at his feet, she'll slit his throat. He'll die just like Lyssa Arryn - in complete shock, without so much as a whimper.
 
2013-07-27 06:39:23 AM  
In the end, my ass will win the Iron Throne.

BOOM.

Nailed it.

/Drops mic.
 
2013-07-27 08:05:53 AM  
Count me as a vote for the showrunners taking over this thing and giving us a better story and flow.
 
2013-07-27 08:46:47 AM  
Perhaps if they stopped cutting out most of the story they wouldn't be in this place?
 
2013-07-27 09:08:22 AM  

TheFog: Re Hodor: I think there are allusions to him being the love child of Ser Duncan the Tall (dunk and egg novellas) and Nan. Does anyone else recall this or did I dream it?


He's officially Old Nan great-grandson. Which would mean she was at least in her 50s when he was born (assuming she and her daughter, grand-daughter had their kid at 15.)

Unless I'm mistaken, Hodor is often refered to as a "simple-minded boy". Which means he's probably still in his 20s.

Which would mean Old Nan would be 70-80 max. A little too young, IMHO.

This being said, we know from Maester Aemon, that Targaryens last longer when refrigerated, so it may very well mean that she is at least partly Targ.
 
2013-07-27 09:12:00 AM  

mikefinch: The series will end by god. Unfinished. Grrm will pass away due to a massive heart attack incurred while he is making brutal violent love to a honey glazed roasted ham.

But really -- they will drag books 4 and 5 into THREE seasons. Easily. People should have seen this coming. Lord knows the roasted ham should see it coming -- the way grrm looks at it with crazed angry lust in his eyes. He WISHES he could finish the next book by 2015 -- he will finish book 6 by 2017 and it will suck even worse than DwD -- I said it once and i will say it again -- abandon hope. Loving this series is like pining for a girl you had a crush on in high school and watching her rebuke your affections as she slowly devolves into a crack hooker. Ahead is only sadness and heartbreak. And not because of anything that happens in the story. More because grrm will die pounding his dick into a chunk of over processed luncheon meat.

\Anyone else has suspicion grrm is watching us? Tossing shiat into the fan? Leaving tiny spoilers? I know i has suspicions. Get back to writing george -- dont you have a ham to bang?


The last two books were bad enough that I don't really care about the series anymore. With any luck Martin will die on top of that ham and the publisher will hire Sanderson to wrap up the series in a manner better than it had any right to.
 
2013-07-27 10:16:04 AM  
It peaks with the purple wedding anyway.
 
2013-07-27 11:40:16 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: The last two books were bad enough that I don't really care about the series anymore. With any luck Martin will die on top of that ham and the publisher will hire Sanderson to wrap up the series in a manner better than it had any right to.


Supposedly, GRRM already has an arrangement with another writer to finish up the series if he dies. I forget who, but it's not Sanderson (though he did a great job finishing WoT).
 
2013-07-27 11:46:03 AM  

mikefinch: \Anyone else has suspicion grrm is watching us? Tossing shiat into the fan? Leaving tiny spoilers? I know i has suspicions. Get back to writing george -- dont you have a ham to bang?


It's possible that he might watch some fan groups, but if he did, why pick Fark of all places?

Though watching fan groups isn't really a very smart thing to do. There's a reason most writers, even those involved in the fanfiction community (and a surprising number are), never read or write fanfic for their own works. Too much risk of accidental influence, leading to a potential lawsuit later. The risk is smaller for more generalized fan groups that don't do fanfic, but it's still there.

Also, if I were a writer involved in this, I'd be way too tempted to troll everyone by deliberately playing up theories I know to be wrong.
 
2013-07-27 11:55:24 AM  

Millennium: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: The last two books were bad enough that I don't really care about the series anymore. With any luck Martin will die on top of that ham and the publisher will hire Sanderson to wrap up the series in a manner better than it had any right to.

Supposedly, GRRM already has an arrangement with another writer to finish up the series if he dies. I forget who, but it's not Sanderson (though he did a great job finishing WoT).


Sanderson isn't that style.  Guy G Kay would be the best fit.
 
2013-07-27 11:56:23 AM  
So given this article?


Let the show die, if there isn't material, don't rush the man.  I enjoy all of the books and I want the same quality moving forward, I don't want a rush job or fan service to overrule his plot.   The non-readers can fark off.
 
2013-07-27 12:15:36 PM  
My theory is there will be no more books. the books are done, the story is going to continue and finish on HBO.
 
2013-07-27 01:19:01 PM  
www.lolwtfcomics.com
 
2013-07-27 01:26:54 PM  
Snow's (mostly) death releases him from his Night's Watch vows of celibacy. As probable Dragon Reborn, and as the Targaryen heir, he can marry Danyeras (sibling marriage among the Targeryens has been written about repeatedly) and end the civil war. Bran, parapalegic, physically removed, warg, and unlikely to be a viable candidate for the Iron Throne or father contenders, serves as the representation of the land itself.

The three-headed dragon references John Snow (White, Ghost), Danyeres (Black, Balerion), and Bran (Green, Greenseer). I don't think it is accurate or necessary that Tyrion is a direct Targeryen heir...it makes the world far too small. He is an outcast and survivor and has an affinity for Jon Snow. As the eventual de facto head of House Lannister, his service as Hand or chamberlain (probably not enough training or inclination for maester) to Jon/Danny's rule would solidify the union of the kingdom (and possibly provide the monetary resources for a war). Unified kingdoms, wargs, dragons, foreign armies, Night's Watch/Wildings, and a few discrete assassinations would go a long way towards resistance against the White Walkers.

I suspect that the royal wedding will happen at the end of the (latest) conflict with the White Walkers, but the growing union between the different factions will be reflected in the increasing bond between Stormborn and Snow.

Of course all of these thoughts wouldn't get you a bowl of brown in flea bottom...
 
2013-07-27 02:09:12 PM  

kbronsito: gilgigamesh: scottydoesntknow: Are they required to go by his source material? Why not do what Dexter did and go in a different direction?

Granted the source material for Dexter got weird and sucky after the first one, but I wouldn't think they have to wait for Martin to write more.

To a certain extent they have to. By the time you get to book four -- which is pretty big -- he pauses the story lines for a lot of the major characters and starts up new ones.

It wouldn't translate well to TV. Imagine a whole season that leaves a bunch of important story lines hanging in order to move on to new ones. A whole season with no Tyrion. You can get away with that in books, but the show would go over a cliff.

A seson with Tyrion would be bad... but a season without Hodor would be a farking disaster.

My two Hodor theories:
1.  Hodor is somewhat related to the Targaryens. When everyone is dead, he will get the iron throne. and he is not really retarded afterall... he was just playing the long game of thrones.
2. The word "Hodor" is magical and it kills any white walker who hears it.


Np, no,no. "Hodor" is the magical portal to where all the Whores go
 
2013-07-27 02:19:20 PM  

Nadie_AZ: SecretAgentWoman: I'm going to call it: The Iron Throne is just a red herring.

It's all about White Walkers/Others verses Dragons

I don't think he knows where to go, next. Or how to end it.


Oh he knows how it ends, he just wrote himself into some corners he hasn't figured out how to solve to get there. He went a little too biig and grand and now doesn't know how to make all the peices fit into the picture in a coherent fashion.

Thats been the most interesting part of watching the show for me. While I hate they left out a few things there are plenty of examples of their streamlining the story that are major improvements over the book. I really think George would benefit from a more hamfisted editor chopping some of the extraneous storylines and characters.
 
2013-07-27 02:19:32 PM  
Chapter 1. Hodor Targaryen

Hodor! Hodoorrrrrr!

"Hodor."
 
2013-07-27 06:04:31 PM  
OMFG. Finally.

ALL of Crusader Kings 2 is on sale today on Steam, including The Old Gods and the Celtic stuff. farking Summer Sale didn't include those last bits.

So if you want the best Game of Thrones mod evar, then you need to get CK2.

/Playing as Stannis during the Clash of Kings is a biatch because everyone hates you, everyone mistrusts your Red Witch & her god, but you can offer up your enemies to the Lord of Light (i.e. send them to the pyres, burn them to death) instead of just sending them off to the Wall like a civilized asshole. Hahaha.
 
2013-07-27 07:40:39 PM  
I thought R R Martin asked the HBO guys to wrap it up...
 
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