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(Opposing Views)   Cops go to the wrong address, scare a 72-year-old man, and then shoot him dead. Their excuse? The lighting was bad and they couldn't see what was going on   (opposingviews.com) divider line 276
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14558 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2013 at 1:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 07:05:51 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.


Didn't this already happen? There was a "minute men" civilian border group that pretended to be cops/INS and slaughtered a family and stole a bunch of jewelery. They killed the dad and the daughter, but only wounded the mother because she grabbed a gun and fired back. One of their members was a drug dealer and he told them his competitor had a bunch of money and guns that they could use for their border patrol group, and that's why they targeted this family. I think it was in Arizona.
 
2013-07-26 07:06:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: They pay shiat in many areas of the country?


Many cops in California make over $200,000 a year, and they're some of the most brutal in the country.
 
2013-07-26 07:09:14 PM  

fnordfocus: hardinparamedic: I can tell you exactly how this will end. This will disappear. The department will settle with the family for an undisclosed amount while having the family sign a binding NDA. And that will be it.

Where the undisclosed amount is probably $0 and agreeing to probably not kill the rest of the family the same way.


Did this happen in Austin?  Lawsuits in austin against APD tend to dissapear very very very quickly with no settlement.
 
2013-07-26 07:27:01 PM  

hardinparamedic: How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.


You'd think like cops throwing diabetics in the drunk tank, raiding the wrong house, tazering blind people, would be the Police equivalent of never events that get everyone involved fired automatically.
 
2013-07-26 07:28:09 PM  

fnordfocus: Many cops in California make over $200,000 a year, and they're some of the most brutal in the country.


What departments, fnord?
 
2013-07-26 07:32:01 PM  
meh, it's in Texas they love authoritarianism, these guys are heroes. Even his neighbor is apologizing for the cops in the article.
 
2013-07-26 07:38:16 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: hardinparamedic: redmid17: Everything I found on nypd salary says they start at 44+

Control-F and type in "What are the Benefits". NYPD starts at 34K. In a city where an apartment is 1500/month for a studio.

Jesus, it's that low? No f*cking way am I going there for it then.

Even if it is 44 that's ridiculously low


I think that site's just very out of date.  This other official NYPD site has much higher numbers:  http://www.nypdrecruit.com/benefits-salary/overview

$44,744 while you're in academy, $46,288 when you start working, rising to $90,829 after five more years .  Before overtime.

How many other 25 year olds make over $90,000?
 
2013-07-26 07:47:50 PM  

hardinparamedic: What departments, fnord?


Just about any department in California.  The average Oakland Police Officer makes $188,000 all in.

Oakland has an Officer who cleared over $200,000 in overtime alone last year, and 147 Officers who made over $200,000 last year.  That's not counting sergeants or brass.

http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area
 
2013-07-26 08:13:37 PM  
Was the victim black?

Are the cops white?

No?

Non story


/Back to the Zimmerman threads
 
2013-07-26 08:16:15 PM  
One day I want to see a homeowner drop all the cops or swat team or whatever when they try to break into the wrong home. I want the homeowner to get away scott free and get a huge settlement for the trouble of executing the cops.
 
2013-07-26 08:51:15 PM  

fnordfocus: Just about any department in California.  The average Oakland Police Officer makes $188,000 all in.

Oakland has an Officer who cleared over $200,000 in overtime alone last year, and 147 Officers who made over $200,000 last year.  That's not counting sergeants or brass.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics would like to have a word with your journalist.

California employs nearly 70,000 Police and Sheriff Officers.
 
2013-07-26 09:02:12 PM  
The trooper that murdered my cousin during an unlawful entry said it was dark and he thought my cousin had a gun. It was 7pm in the middle of summer and still full light out. The neighbor standing 50ft away in the street could see my cousin clearly. My cousin just asked for a warrant and held the door shut as they kicked it in without one. The witness said my cousin was crouched in a defensive position with his arms up to protect his head. The coroner backed this up with the powder burns. No weapons were ever found. Booth troopers there are still free today.
 
2013-07-26 09:19:14 PM  
hardinparamedic:The Bureau of Labor Statistics would like to have a word with your journalist.

Did you look at the link?  It's just raw numbers as reported by government agencies.  Do you think the Cities of Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco, are lying and inflating what they pay Officers?

California employs nearly 70,000 Police and Sheriff Officers.

And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

Compared to the number of people I know who earn over $200,000, the thousands of California Officers who do seem like many.
 
2013-07-26 09:20:07 PM  

SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.


When  my son turned 16, I told him never to trust the police. If he got into trouble, to make no statements and ask for a lawyer. To use every opportunity to contact me so that I could get legal assistance. I told him that the cops will use anything he says to incriminate him and obtain a conviction. I printed a copy of a document that I downloaded from the web regarding his legal rights and made sure he read it.

What is bizarre is that he was and continues to be a great kid. University student, no drugs or tobacco, very into health. I had no reason to expect that he would get into trouble with the law but if something happened, I didn't want the gang-bangers with a badge to fark him.

I'm a 70's child - not given to respecting the law, but even I grew up thinking that the cops knew right from wrong.
 
2013-07-26 09:31:28 PM  

fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.


The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion

The mean income of a police officer in the United States is 38k.
 
2013-07-26 09:39:29 PM  
Why are people complaining now? They cheered for this. They called those who warned where the changes were heading "paranoid".  Ridicule and horrible insults were used against anyone who warned of the growing powers of police in the drug war, for nannying, for safety, for 'law enforcement' and so on. Americans were warned that the military personnel used in foreign occupations would become the police in this country. But the worship of 'the troops' and 'cops' went on anyway. More and more tool laws were cheered into being. After all, we could trust the cops to only go after bad people. And only those other people who lived on the wrong side of the tracks would be collateral damage. Those who warned of abuse or even plain human error were again called paranoid.

Now the foreign occupations have come home. This is how it works in an occupation. Men paranoid for their own lives shoot first. Even the ones who didn't participate in the actions overseas have been trained this way. What ever surprises them or even moves gets shot dead. The powers of the drug wars, the need to use armed men for everything, and so on mean a lot of home entries and of course all the mistakes that happen with that.

aseras: One day I want to see a homeowner drop all the cops or swat team or whatever when they try to break into the wrong home. I want the homeowner to get away scott free and get a huge settlement for the trouble of executing the cops.


That's not going to happen. They will just apply more force until the homeowner is overwhelmed and killed. They'll use a tank. They'll burn the home down. Americans cheered it on before so long as the people being attacked were properly demonized in the media. Today the cops could call in an airstrike if they have to and the public would accept it. In fact they did once a long time ago. Burned down several homes in the process.

But if enough americans start shooting back a lot of these people will quit being cops.
 
2013-07-26 10:13:22 PM  
Nothing will be done here, nothing will change. Move along, citizen.
 
2013-07-26 10:21:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion


I could only find one Bay Area department paying below $83k for new recruits.  Regardless, it's still about three times what the average Californian earns, so I don't think it's reasonable to say we aren't paying enough to expect competent and non-corrupt Officers.

Also, 5% would be about 3,500 Officers state wide?  There's about 2,300 Officers over $120k in San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland alone, so I'm a bit skeptical.
 
2013-07-26 10:26:07 PM  

Farxist Marxist: SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.

When  my son turned 16, I told him never to trust the police. If he got into trouble, to make no statements and ask for a lawyer. To use every opportunity to contact me so that I could get legal assistance. I told him that the cops will use anything he says to incriminate him and obtain a conviction. I printed a copy of a document that I downloaded from the web regarding his legal rights and made sure he read it.

What is bizarre is that he was and continues to be a great kid. University student, no drugs or tobacco, very into health. I had no reason to expect that he would get into trouble with the law but if something happened, I didn't want the gang-bangers with a badge to fark him.

I'm a 70's child - not given to respecting the law, but even I grew up thinking that the cops knew right from wrong.


I found out in '78 that Texas State Troopers were dishonest as hell and took bribes from companies and threatened you if you pursued action.
 
2013-07-26 10:36:27 PM  
House numbers 404 and 409 would be on opposite sides of the street. Did this not come up during the pre-raid briefing?

/Hey Lou, after you turn onto the street the house will be on the left
//Right, chief.
///Huh? The right?
////Correct
 
2013-07-27 01:23:27 AM  

fnordfocus: hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion

I could only find one Bay Area department paying below $83k for new recruits.  Regardless, it's still about three times what the average Californian earns, so I don't think it's reasonable to say we aren't paying enough to expect competent and non-corrupt Officers.

ThereAlso, 5% would be about 3,500 Officers state wide?  's about 2,300 Officers over $120k in San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland alone, so I'm a bit skeptical.


I have a feeling that Hardin's numbers are just the base salary & doesn't include those 'little' things like overtime (which if done the way that most police seem to do it, can easily double that base)
 
2013-07-27 08:10:39 AM  
They mistook him for the family dog...
 
2013-07-27 09:54:09 AM  

SpectroBoy: It is funny how many cops and other people believe this crap.

Cops are LESS LIKELY to die on the job than


I think the important statistic is that a police is about twice as likely to kill an innocent person as they are to die on the job.
 
2013-07-27 10:11:52 AM  
Happiness is a warm gun.  Bang, bang, shoot, shoot.
 
2013-07-27 10:18:28 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: [insert usual rant against police here]


{insert usual apologist rant supporting incompetence, general asshattedness and gratuitous brutality here]


/and we're done
 
2013-07-27 12:11:25 PM  

OKObserver: Happiness is a warm gun.  Bang, bang, shoot, shoot.


Or the cop version... bark, bark, shoot, shoot.
 
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