Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Opposing Views)   Cops go to the wrong address, scare a 72-year-old man, and then shoot him dead. Their excuse? The lighting was bad and they couldn't see what was going on   (opposingviews.com) divider line 276
    More: Fail, brightness  
•       •       •

14596 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2013 at 1:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



276 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-26 11:41:21 AM  
Note to self.

Pick up some glow in the dark paint and write my street and number on the front, back and sides of my house.
 
2013-07-26 11:46:53 AM  
When I went for my first hunting license when a wee lad (I think I was 11), the first rule we were taught was "know your target."

I haven't shot a gun in years and I still hear that in my head every time I pick one up.
 
2013-07-26 11:47:08 AM  

BizarreMan: Note to self.

Pick up some glow in the dark paint and write my street and number on the front, back and sides of my house.


Also a big lighted sign that says, "Attention Law Enforcement: There is nothing illegal going on in this house. I swear. Please do not break into my house and kill me. Thank you."
 
2013-07-26 12:05:34 PM  
Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.
 
2013-07-26 12:05:58 PM  
Hey, they were just defending themselves..jeez.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-26 12:10:13 PM  
imageshack.us

Were these the officers involved?
 
2013-07-26 12:10:39 PM  
[insert usual rant against police here]
 
2013-07-26 12:19:01 PM  
Meh, the case will be settled quickly, for way less than a jury would award, and then the police will never face the wrath they deserve.

/the new American way
 
2013-07-26 12:26:46 PM  

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


Yes. I mean... it was pretty much the house right across the street. My GPS screws that up all the time.

/Looks like a nice neighborhood.
 
2013-07-26 12:34:50 PM  
Knew it was Texas before I clicked.
 
2013-07-26 12:41:24 PM  
This was Texas, wasn't it....

-clicks article-

Yep.

I'm going to go with incompetence and "Decider" mentality for 500, Alex.
 
2013-07-26 12:46:25 PM  
I was reading another article indicating that both of the cops who shot him were rookies that had been on the force since October of last year. Sounds like there was a dangerous mix of inexperience and trigger happiness going on here.
 
2013-07-26 12:48:53 PM  
I'm sure if the old man shot one of the cops and blamed it on bad lighting he would also just get a stern talking too.
 
2013-07-26 12:52:37 PM  

odinsposse: I'm sure if the old man shot one of the cops and blamed it on bad lighting he would also just get a stern talking too.


It's Texas. They'd have fried him faster than a retarded black man.
 
2013-07-26 12:56:59 PM  

Sybarite: I was reading another article indicating that both of the cops who shot him were rookies that had been on the force since October of last year. Sounds like there was a dangerous mix of inexperience and trigger happiness going on here.


i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2013-07-26 01:18:12 PM  
Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?
 
2013-07-26 01:37:31 PM  
To the Radleymobile! Fire up the Balkosignal!
 
2013-07-26 01:37:51 PM  
Dang Texas, WTF?
 
2013-07-26 01:39:29 PM  

vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?


No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.
 
2013-07-26 01:39:50 PM  
To protect and .....shoot....
 
2013-07-26 01:40:56 PM  
20 goto 10;
 
2013-07-26 01:42:22 PM  
....gettin real tired of these "cops killin the wrong stuff at places they shouldn't be" articles.

Cops: STAAAAAHP
 
2013-07-26 01:43:09 PM  
Where are the defenders of these officers?  Come on, get your biatch asses in here and DEFEND THEM!
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-07-26 01:43:23 PM  

Wangiss: No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car. Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


ah, if only..

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-26 01:43:44 PM  
1. Verify the address at which the alleged crime is taking place.
2. If you don't verify the address, at least verify that the alleged crime is taking place.
3. If you don't verify the crime, at least verify your alleged criminal.
4. If you don't verify the criminal, at least verify that lethal force is necessary.
5. If you don't verify that lethal force is necessary, at least truthfully report what happened.
6. If you don't truthfully report what happened, at least have the dignity to put yourself on administrative leave.

Sweet Jesus, how bad do you have to suck at law enforcement, at being ethical, at being human, to fail that checklist?
 
2013-07-26 01:45:21 PM  
That escalated quickly
 
2013-07-26 01:45:54 PM  
WTF is wrong with this country?

/Eventually if they keep on killing middle class white people they will have to account for their actions.
 
2013-07-26 01:46:21 PM  
"even if though the police do will not lift a finger to punish their own wrongdoers"

FTFTFA
 
2013-07-26 01:46:36 PM  
How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat?  Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?

/militarization of police forces is BAD.
 
2013-07-26 01:46:51 PM  
This wouldn't have happened it he was black......
 
2013-07-26 01:48:16 PM  

sugardave: Where are the defenders of these officers?  Come on, get your biatch asses in here and DEFEND THEM!


Maybe.... just maybe this one will be too much for them to defend.....


nah, they'll be right along once they read the talking points.
 
2013-07-26 01:49:58 PM  

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


The houses aren't even on the same side of the street! WTF?

Egregious doesn't even begin to cover this kind of error.

DAMN!
 
2013-07-26 01:50:04 PM  
wax_on
How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat? Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?
/militarization of police forces is BAD.


I agree but this has not hing to do with that. This is about police hiring the wrong type of personality that are trained primary to save their own bacon and are not accountable for their mistakes.

They are already back on the job.
 
2013-07-26 01:50:38 PM  
Someone in a football thread was wondering why we call Texas an "open sewer" earlier today. Well, here ya go.
 
2013-07-26 01:50:39 PM  
 
2013-07-26 01:50:58 PM  

Diogenes: When I went for my first hunting license when a wee lad (I think I was 11), the first rule we were taught was "know your target."

I haven't shot a gun in years and I still hear that in my head every time I pick one up.


Deer, quail and trout [trout?] don't shoot back. The first rule is, soften your target.
 
2013-07-26 01:51:08 PM  

sugardave: Where are the defenders of these officers?  Come on, get your biatch asses in here and DEFEND THEM!


Those police officers were just responding to a perceived threat.... there was bad lighting, that man could have been BLACK for God's sake.

/I got the post-lunch slump, I got nothin....
 
2013-07-26 01:51:34 PM  

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.
 
2013-07-26 01:52:03 PM  
www.geardiary.com
Ya never know.

/shame how it all went down with uncle Joon.
 
2013-07-26 01:52:44 PM  
In the cops' defense, he WAS coming right for them.
 
2013-07-26 01:52:45 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?


Except they lied about his location, so did they also lie about him pointing a gun?  $1M says yes. You can send it to me in small, unmarked bills.
 
2013-07-26 01:52:59 PM  
And this is why you should leave the firearms to the professionals...
 
2013-07-26 01:53:13 PM  

vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?


People actually rely on those still? I thought all the stories of people getting directed 300 miles out of their way and mindlessly turning their cars to crash into trains taught people to look up where they are going first, not just plug the numbers in and hope it comes out right.

/cannot begin to tell you how many times she has bailed friends and family out of tight situations because their GPS thigamajig gave them bad directions, or there was a road closure. . Or or or or. . .
//always looks up directions and then writes them by hand.
 
2013-07-26 01:53:23 PM  
In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.
 
2013-07-26 01:54:18 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.


I don't think many people, even cops unfortunately, understand how house numbers work.
 
2013-07-26 01:55:36 PM  
Nina_Hartley's_Ass

did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Probably. Poor guy obviously never thought he'd have to defend himself from the police. He was wrong.
 
2013-07-26 01:56:09 PM  

kidgenius: Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.

I don't think many people, even cops unfortunately, understand how house numbers work.


wtf, how is that possible?
 
2013-07-26 01:56:37 PM  

d23: Wangiss: No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car. Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.

ah, if only..

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 224x225]


WTF?!
I'm still using one of these!
ts1.mm.bing.net
 
2013-07-26 01:56:57 PM  

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.


Yeah, I know....only if those cops had a way of compensating for bad lighting
policelink.monster.com
Or:
i1219.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-26 01:57:02 PM  
Clearly, LEO's are the only people trained well enough to be in possession of firearms.
 
2013-07-26 01:57:19 PM  
The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

i32.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-26 01:57:29 PM  
They were totally 404.
 
2013-07-26 01:57:44 PM  
media.screened.com
 
2013-07-26 01:57:53 PM  

wax_on: How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat?  Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?

/militarization of police forces is BAD.


It happens.

media.kansas.com
 
2013-07-26 01:58:00 PM  
kickyourassandgetawaywithit.jpg
 
2013-07-26 01:58:14 PM  

MikeBoomshadow: They were totally 404.


*snert*
 
2013-07-26 01:58:31 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.


Well, that's one side of the story.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:37 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.


How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:43 PM  

Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


Ya know, I'm more of the mindset that it's bad that the cops shot an innocent person more than bad that they showed up at the wrong address... I know, that kind of moral relativism is frowned upon by both Fark and the Sith.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:50 PM  

vernonFL: If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.


You mean like the one which banks use as an excuse when they foreclose on the wrong house?
 
2013-07-26 01:58:52 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.


Well that would imply they knew which way was north. In their defence, directions are hard.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:08 PM  

QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location


Did they?
 
2013-07-26 01:59:11 PM  

kidgenius:

I don't think many people, even cops unfortunately, understand how house numbers work.


hence the saying "667. Neighbor of the Beast"
 
2013-07-26 01:59:13 PM  
I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:24 PM  

Enemabag Jones: WTF is wrong with this country?

/Eventually if they keep on killing middle class white people they will have to account for their actions.


Not enough assholes are getting hung.  If all of the pigs involved were hung as well as the chief of police and the mayor the next guys will make damned sure it won't happen again.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:34 PM  
404 and 409 aren't even on the same side of the street.  "Ok, let's see...that's 406 (or 402, depending on the direction), so the next one must be 409 but I can't tell since it's dark."  farking stupid excuse.
 
2013-07-26 02:00:43 PM  

hardinparamedic: Mr. Eugenides: But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.

How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.


Can you imagine what kind of clusterfark this would be in an active shooter emergency, cops (and other first responders) showing up with their backs to the shooter while they stare at the wrong address?
 
2013-07-26 02:00:53 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-26 02:01:21 PM  
FTA:

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.



Police lying to cover their asses!?!?!?

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

I am sure this will be investigated and they will be punished with paid vacation.
 
2013-07-26 02:01:26 PM  
Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.
 
2013-07-26 02:02:20 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: BizarreMan: Note to self.

Pick up some glow in the dark paint and write my street and number on the front, back and sides of my house.

Yeah, I don't think cops that think 'bad lighting' is a great excuse for murdering a 73 year old property owner are going to be convinced they are at the wrong address by something like a clearly visible glowing house number. Hell, in their minds that's just the kind of ruse a guy who needs a shootin would pull to throw them of his trail.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-26 02:02:49 PM  
Was his name "Buttle"?

/and you know that's not obscure
 
2013-07-26 02:03:08 PM  

miss diminutive: Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.

Well that would imply they knew which way was north. In their defence, directions are hard.


Then again, maybe it was one of those fours that look like nines and in the dark they couldn't tell the difference. But they should still have taken a look at the other house numbers to gauge which side of the street was even and odd.
 
2013-07-26 02:03:15 PM  

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.


Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.
 
2013-07-26 02:03:46 PM  

firefly212: Can you imagine what kind of clusterfark this would be in an active shooter emergency, cops (and other first responders) showing up with their backs to the shooter while they stare at the wrong address?


Well, yeah, because it actually happened. In 2002, a Memphis Firefighter completely flipped his lid because he thought his wife was sleeping with another firefighter, so he shot her her, called in a house fire at the house across the street, and waited in his attic with a hunting rifle through the vent slats. He got two deputies, then set his house on fire to lure the engine company in before killing the Lieutenant in the pumper as he was getting out.

The Lieutenant was his target. Problem was, his intended target had called in that day, and his backup had childcare issues. So it was another person, totally unrelated, riding out of rank.
 
2013-07-26 02:04:23 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?


Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.
 
2013-07-26 02:04:45 PM  

orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.


What if he was wearing a hoodie?
 
2013-07-26 02:06:40 PM  

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now, hang on here. I'm pretty Pro-LE, but there's really no excuse here. Apparently, this happened in a major city which, as one FARKer has put it, has the addresses clearly marked. I'm also willing to bet they have Automated Location Dispatching and in-car GIS systems which should have showed them.

But I agree. This was manslaughter and negligent homicide.

Ontos: Clearly, LEO's are the only people trained well enough to be in possession of firearms.


Given the amount of LaMOE ITG Circle-Jerk types that post "in defense" of private firearm ownership on FARK and other websites (Dear God, Free Republic), I'd still trust a cop more than half these idiots on here.
 
2013-07-26 02:07:16 PM  
Avoid police at all costs. They are not highly trained intelligent people. They are criminals and thugs on the right side of the law. Even if you are in the right, you are in the wrong when the police are involved.
 
2013-07-26 02:07:47 PM  
Reminds me of a guy from Texas that was telling me about his hunting trip:

"Didn't see anything, but we got off a few brush shots."

"What's a brush shot?"

"You know, when you hear something in the brush, and shoot at it."
 
2013-07-26 02:08:27 PM  
Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?
 
2013-07-26 02:08:42 PM  

QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.


Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.
 
2013-07-26 02:09:39 PM  

orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.


And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.
 
2013-07-26 02:10:00 PM  

FormlessOne: Sweet Jesus, how bad do you have to suck at law enforcement, at being ethical, at being human, to fail that checklist?


They're cops.  That means they're neither ethical nor human.
 
2013-07-26 02:11:00 PM  
404 Havenwood Lane

Intelligence not Found
 
2013-07-26 02:11:09 PM  
At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.
 
2013-07-26 02:11:19 PM  

gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.


What's incorrect about the bolded sentiment. I completely owe my life to the fact that they've farked up elsewhere, rather than at my place.

/Getting to be like playing Russian Roulette
 
2013-07-26 02:11:47 PM  

Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...
 
2013-07-26 02:12:08 PM  

Chewb1zz: Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.


Just pulled up the streetview....

White letters on the black background on the curb. Big mailbox with numbering facing the street. And pretty farking close to a full moon that night. Yeah...no excuse at all.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=404+havenwood+lane%2C+fort+wor t h&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-97.230232!3d32.772463!2m2!1f252.81!2f68.14!4f75 !2m4!1e1!2m2!1sYMdo6QDJa7FMtqdmn6MLbg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d33359!2d- 81.4534189!3d41.517123!3m2!1i1920!2i1072!4f13.1&fid=5
 
2013-07-26 02:12:19 PM  
Maybe the cops thought he was a dog. They like killing dogs.
 
2013-07-26 02:12:28 PM  
Going to the wrong house is a mistake, and a honest one most times.
Blasting the first person you see because your scared... That's something else.

That's a "who made these chickenshiats cops?!" levels of incompetence.

/and they lied, that's just icing on the cake.
/it should be manslaughter for the lot of them.
 
2013-07-26 02:12:51 PM  

thetubameister: Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?


When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.

Cops have more power than a Doctor to ruin someone's life, and they're overseen far less.

kortex: They are not highly trained intelligent people.


Depending on where you're at, this is not true. Also depending on whether you're dealing with someone who's an investigator, or a beat cop.

kortex: Even if you are in the right, you are in the wrong when the police are involved.


This is coming from someone who deals with cops every day. Even if they are your friends off the job, do not involve them on the job unless you NEED to - i.e. your life is in danger, or you have to file a report for some reason. Do not do anything you are not legally required to do. Do not offer information unless you are sure you will not incriminate yourself, or you speak with a lawyer first.

If, for some reason, you are looked at as a suspect in something, say NOTHING. The police are legally allowed to mislead you to get information or a confession. They will make promises, and state there is nothing they can do to help you if you do not do X or Y. Do not fall for it. Shut up, give nothing but your name and identification, and ask for a lawyer. Do not resist, be cooperative. Do not consent to anything.
 
2013-07-26 02:13:02 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?


According to the medical examiner in May, Waller's place of death was in his garage.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fort-Worth-Police-Affidavit-Cites-L ig hting-in-Shooting-at-Wrong-House-216851981.html
 
2013-07-26 02:13:18 PM  

ChipNASA: This wouldn't have happened it he was black......


Then the cops REALLY would have played up the whole "it was dark, HE was dark,  we just
plumb couldn't see him!"excuse.

Most of the time I have a great deal of respect for law enforcement, but they tend tofall into
one of three categories:

a. officers who take 'to protect and serve' to heart and who willingly jump into the fray
and put their lives on then line to protect the public.

b. officers who are just doing their job. They won't risk their lives unless they absolutely
have to but are generally pretty decent folks.

c. officers who use their badge as both a bludgeon and a shield. These are the people
who feel like their position gives them license to do whatever the fark they want without
recourse.

Sadly, we hear FAR more about Type C cops than A or B....
 
2013-07-26 02:13:27 PM  

wax_on: How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat?  Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?

/militarization of police forces is BAD.


It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that swat teams are at about a 50/50 ratio....
 
2013-07-26 02:13:44 PM  

JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.


Isn't it nice to know that you, as a Doctor, have more oversight than a cop does, and he can kill someone much easier than you can usually?
 
2013-07-26 02:14:52 PM  
hardinparamedic

When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.

I almost never agree with you, but this is right on.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:46 PM  

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.


My old house had an odd address on the even numbered side of the street leading to many undelivered packages.  We solved the problem by painting our address in giant numbers on our fence and later by moving.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:50 PM  

gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.


THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:54 PM  

Maul555: It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that swat teams are at about a 50/50 ratio....


Not really. Actual SWAT teams are smaller than people think.

What has happened, especially around Warrant/Fugitive Apprehension teams and Narcotics Squads, is that they have become tactical in nature due to the risk involved in these. It's not unusual to see a warrant served - especially in a known drug or gang area - by people dressed out in tactical gear and using heavy firepower.

You're only - usually - going to see a true SWAT operator in a situation such as an active shooter, barricade, hostage, or unusual situation.
 
2013-07-26 02:16:52 PM  
They must just give any shlub a badge these days.  I don't know, but from the little bit of COPS I've seen on teevee, when they get to the house they call it in to confirm they are where they SHOULD be to dispatch.  As a way of letting them know there is more to come.
 
2013-07-26 02:17:29 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: I almost never agree with you, but this is right on.


Well, maybe we can share a beer one day. I tend not to be as snarky and more down to earth outside of FARK. I'm really a nice guy, for the most part.
 
2013-07-26 02:18:53 PM  
It's not even that the cops can fark up and go to the wrong address, a judge who is loose with warrants will write one based on a tip... that came from a "CI".

This frightens the fark out of me.  Police can legally bust your door down, and come in blazing because someone "told them there was illegal activity going on"
 
2013-07-26 02:18:59 PM  

SpectroBoy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

According to the medical examiner in May, Waller's place of death was in his garage.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fort-Worth-Police-Affidavit-Cites-L ig hting-in-Shooting-at-Wrong-House-216851981.html


"They then encountered Waller near the corner of the home as they approached the garage."

I'm not seeing the conflict in these imprecise accounts.
 
2013-07-26 02:19:47 PM  
I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.
 
2013-07-26 02:21:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.

Isn't it nice to know that you, as a Doctor, have more oversight than a cop does, and he can kill someone much easier than you can usually?


1. I guess I need to work on my trolling... :D

2. What's really fun is I'll get sued over a bad outcome, even if I do everything right. Police officers have, time and time again, killed people through sheer negligence and stupidity, and all they get is a couple days of paid vacation and some pats on the back. The real fun, however, is that one city that defeated a discrimination lawsuit because they refused to hire people who were too smart. After all, we can't have smart cops.
 
2013-07-26 02:21:21 PM  

JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.


It is funny how many cops and other people believe this crap.

www.riskmanagementmonitor.com

Cops are LESS LIKELY to die on the job than
* Fishermen
* Loggers
* Pilots and flight engineers
* Farmers
* Miners
* Roofers
* Garbage men
* Professional drivers
* industrial machine workers

They score TENTH

Maybe, just maybe, the risk doesn't justify blasting every innocent citizen that causes you a little concern.

/Heretic, I know.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:51 PM  

LaughingRadish: I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.


I can tell you exactly how this will end. This will disappear. The department will settle with the family for an undisclosed amount while having the family sign a binding NDA. And that will be it.

This needs to change. If I gave someone a drug that was clearly contraindicated and killed them out of my own incompetence, I'd be losing my license. The fact that a cop can do it, and still stay on the job, is sickening.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:54 PM  

kidgenius: Chewb1zz: Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.

Just pulled up the streetview....

White letters on the black background on the curb. Big mailbox with numbering facing the street. And pretty farking close to a full moon that night. Yeah...no excuse at all.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=404+havenwood+lane%2C+fort+wor t h&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-97.230232!3d32.772463!2m2!1f252.81!2f68.14!4f75 !2m4!1e1!2m2!1sYMdo6QDJa7FMtqdmn6MLbg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d33359!2d- 81.4534189!3d41.517123!3m2!1i1920!2i1072!4f13.1&fid=5


Counterpoint - moonlight wouldn't have mattered if it was cloudy. What was the weather like?

/SO not defending this dimwits, just pointing out logical fallacy
 
2013-07-26 02:23:53 PM  
They should face the death penalty for knowingly violating common safety procedures.
 
2013-07-26 02:24:24 PM  

ChipNASA: This wouldn't have happened it he was black......


You are correct. Had the elderly gentleman been black, the police would have planted a controlled substance on his person and discharged his firearm multiple times to create the impression that they had been fired upon.
 
2013-07-26 02:24:24 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?


Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.
 
2013-07-26 02:25:58 PM  

Maul555: Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.

Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...


Woooosh....
 
2013-07-26 02:27:04 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.


You're saying Waller should have shot first.
 
2013-07-26 02:27:05 PM  
thats it, confidence in police officially at 0. it's time to fire them all
 
2013-07-26 02:27:06 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.


I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?
 
2013-07-26 02:27:18 PM  
Everyone should google street view that address just to realize what a ridiculous claim these cops are making.

Not only is the address perfectly visible, but the location of that garage means these idiots had to have been traipsing around this guy's backyard with flashlights and guns.  Who wouldn't expect an armed homeowner to respond to that in TX?
 
2013-07-26 02:27:29 PM  

tripleseven: It's not even that the cops can fark up and go to the wrong address, a judge who is loose with warrants will write one based on a tip... that came from a "CI".

This frightens the fark out of me.  Police can legally bust your door down, and come in blazing because someone "told them there was illegal activity going on"


That's not enough probable cause for you?  I'm sure it's For The ChildrenTM
 
2013-07-26 02:27:43 PM  

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


Which makes this even worse.  If these streets are numbered like all the ones I've lived on, the odd and even numbers alternate sides of the street.  Which means they weren't just a couple houses down, but on the wrong side.

I thought there were laws against giving the mentally retarded firearms.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:02 PM  
If it was too dark to read a white street number on the curb, and a clearly visible street number on the mailbox, then how the HELL was it light enough to see he was definitely holding a gun?

Sorry you stupid cops, you can't have it both ways.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:41 PM  
Never live in a state, city, or town where you don't personally know who the responding officer will be at your residence. Introduce yourself. Know first names. I've learned that is a good thing to do.

You need to be able to de-escalate the situation when they are the ones escalating it.

Dick goes both ways.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:46 PM  

Ivo Shandor: You mean like the one which banks use as an excuse when they foreclose on the wrong house?


How can that possibly be? I could almost understand if it was the house next door or 2 door down, but across the street?

My address is 30 Yellow Brick rd. The house across the street is 31 Yellow Brick rd. Odd numbers, even numbers across the street.

Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??
 
2013-07-26 02:29:49 PM  
DrunkWithImpotence

I thought there were laws against giving the mentally retarded firearms.

There are intelligence-caps for police officers in the United States. I believe a story about it was on Fark a few weeks ago, wherein the department in question defended this as a legitimate interest, and the court assented.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:27 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.


While I appreciate why you dimiss the second part of my statement, your analogy given as your reasoning is not a good one. The reason I say that and the reason that changing "cops" to "blacks" doesn't work is that the police - especially since 9/11, frankly - have vastly increased not only their power but also their special protections. Black people, for example, if they kill someone, do not get to have that killing judged by their own internal review board, by their own special set of rules rather than by a court of law.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:38 PM  

WickerNipple: Everyone should google street view that address just to realize what a ridiculous claim these cops are making.

Not only is the address perfectly visible, but the location of that garage means these idiots had to have been traipsing around this guy's backyard with flashlights and guns.  Who wouldn't expect an armed homeowner to respond to that in TX?


THIS

They were in his side/back yard with guns and flashlight on a dark night AND HAD NOT ANNOUNCED THEMSELVES.  Sure looks like a home invasion from the receiving end.

If announcing yourself is "too much risk" maybe you shouldn't be a cop at all.
 
2013-07-26 02:31:08 PM  

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


FFS,  they couldn't even get on the right side of the street?  Even and Odd numbers is first grade.
 
2013-07-26 02:31:22 PM  

LeroyBourne: They must just give any shlub a badge these days.


Well, not any shlub...

www.bob-owens.com
 
2013-07-26 02:31:39 PM  
Man, you guys are slow today -

THIS is how you let your local doughnut munchers know you're clean -

www.firecompanies.com

hawt like a tart
 
2013-07-26 02:32:15 PM  

arentol: If it was too dark to read a white street number on the curb, and a clearly visible street number on the mailbox, then how the HELL was it light enough to see he was definitely holding a gun?

Sorry you stupid cops, you can't have it both ways.



THIS

Their flashlights were not adquate to read WHITE number on a BLACK background, but they could see well enough to tell he was not only holding a gun, but aiming it.

Please let this go to jury trial.
 
2013-07-26 02:32:44 PM  

QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.

I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?


Say what now?
 
2013-07-26 02:34:37 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?


They stood their ground?
 
2013-07-26 02:36:20 PM  
Was the man barking or something?
 
2013-07-26 02:36:38 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.

I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?

Say what now?


Oops.
 
2013-07-26 02:38:46 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.


Agree with the creeping expectation statement. This kind of official negligent homicide seems to come with the expectation that we're supposed to give it the same lack of concern as if troops in Iraq raided the wrong house - that we're supposed to think police are soldiers at war with the enemy among us, so cut them a break.
 
2013-07-26 02:39:13 PM  

vernonFL: Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??


I delivered pizza for 5 years in the 90s before any sort of newfangledly satellite magic.

# of times I delivered to the wrong address: 0
 
2013-07-26 02:39:27 PM  

SpectroBoy: Maybe, just maybe, the risk doesn't justify blasting every innocent citizen that causes you a little concern.


Honestly, it's a little disingenious to say a cop's job is not inherently dangerous, more so than most other professions in America depending on where they work. That's like saying a Soldier's job is not dangerous anymore because only 5000 died this time compared with 50,000 in Vietnam.

But, outside of JPINFV's Poe, anyone using that as an excuse for what happened here today deserves a hard kick in the balls. (or taco)
 
2013-07-26 02:40:21 PM  
Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.
 
2013-07-26 02:42:05 PM  

SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.


DO NOT DO 3. EVAR. Cops take that to mean 'I am a 'sovereign citizen' or other such bullshiat and need to be taught my place'. Go to a public place with lots of lighting if you're worried. Hospital, grocery store, somewhere with lights and cameras.

/Rest of that is solid advice, though
//I like most cops. The ones out here got my little sister back home when she was 3 and decided to take a trip to the park. I wouldn't trust a cop I did not personally know with anything.
 
2013-07-26 02:42:18 PM  
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-26 02:43:43 PM  

sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.


Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?
 
2013-07-26 02:44:01 PM  

PsiChick: DO NOT DO 3. EVAR. Cops take that to mean 'I am a 'sovereign citizen' or other such bullshiat and need to be taught my place'. Go to a public place with lots of lighting if you're worried. Hospital, grocery store, somewhere with lights and cameras.


THIS.

After what happened in West Memphis in 2010, cops have stopped putting up with Sovereign Citizen crap, and acting like one is a good way to get a gun drawn on you.

If you're going to ask something like that, phrasing. "Am I under arrest, or am I behind held for some reason"?
 
2013-07-26 02:44:27 PM  

Peki: People actually rely on those still?


No, the technology was never actually improved in any way, and was abandoned for sextants and star charts.
 
2013-07-26 02:44:52 PM  

WickerNipple: vernonFL: Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??

I delivered pizza for 5 years in the 90s before any sort of newfangledly satellite magic.

# of times I delivered to the wrong address: 0


You were looking to make a buck, not murder somebody or their dog
 
2013-07-26 02:45:59 PM  
They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.
 
2013-07-26 02:46:01 PM  

TwowheelinTim: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

The houses aren't even on the same side of the street! WTF?

Egregious doesn't even begin to cover this kind of error.

DAMN!


but with the 'bad lighting' that last 4 looked like a 9 ..
 
2013-07-26 02:46:37 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.

Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?


FTFA - "My father never stepped outside of his garage," said Waller's son, Chris. "He was shot multiple times in the chest only a few steps away from the doorway to his kitchen."

So, are you saying the account of the son is somehow less trustworthy than the officers' who needed to cover their asses after shooting some old man in the dark?  Interesting.
 
2013-07-26 02:48:08 PM  
I'm sure there is dashboard/vest cam footage that proves this old man was at the corner they claim....right?  The cams were on, right?
 
2013-07-26 02:48:52 PM  

Marcintosh: Man, you guys are slow today -

THIS is how you let your local doughnut munchers know you're clean -



hawt like a tart


So if I do have a meth lab and had this painted on my garage, would I be on the hook for false advertising and a meth lab? Help. I'm bad at maths.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:06 PM  

sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.

Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?

FTFA - "My father never stepped outside of his garage," said Waller's son, Chris. "He was shot multiple times in the chest only a few steps away from the doorway to his kitchen."

So, are you saying the account of the son is somehow less trustworthy than the officers' who needed to cover their asses after shooting some old man in the dark?  Interesting.


I don't believe in ESP.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:23 PM  

sugardave: I'm sure there is dashboard/vest cam footage that proves this old man was at the corner they claim....right?  The cams were on, right?


AFAIK, only two departments in the US are trialing vest cams for TASER international (they're still prototypes), and they're both in California.

Quite a few have gone to gun-mounted cameras like the TASER model, however.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:47 PM  
So they'll be charged with 2nd degree murder? Negligent homicide? Manslaughter?

I mean, this is, by definition, negligent homicide.
 
2013-07-26 02:50:22 PM  
What was I thinking. they're profession prevents them from being held accountable for their actions.
 
2013-07-26 02:50:25 PM  

phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.


You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.
 
2013-07-26 02:51:15 PM  

megarian: So if I do have a meth lab and had this painted on my garage, would I be on the hook for false advertising and a meth lab? Help. I'm bad at maths.


No.  It just tells the cops which drug they have to plant inside after they burst in on a no knock warrant and shoot you 40 times.
 
2013-07-26 02:52:34 PM  

hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.


How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.
 
2013-07-26 02:53:04 PM  

AngryDragon: megarian: So if I do have a meth lab and had this painted on my garage, would I be on the hook for false advertising and a meth lab? Help. I'm bad at maths.

No.  It just tells the cops which drug they have to plant inside after they burst in on a no knock warrant and shoot you 40 times.


Oh. What if I GIVE them my cocaine for funsies? We cool?
 
2013-07-26 02:53:42 PM  

AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.


That's not what this was.
 
2013-07-26 02:54:22 PM  

AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.


Well, for one, this wasn't a no-knock warrant.

For two, I agree with you on the drug war.
 
2013-07-26 02:54:22 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.


That dosent make any farking sense. The police are a vast social institution which people voluntarily join and remain a part of and which have vast powers to use violence against their fellow citizens in an official capacity.

Black people share a skin color.

They aren't remotely analogous groups.
 
2013-07-26 02:55:24 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.


Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone.  YEEHAW!
 
2013-07-26 02:55:58 PM  

petec:

but with the 'bad lighting' that last 4 looked like a 9 ..


that's the problem with beer goggles, hey oh!
 
2013-07-26 02:59:08 PM  

sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.

Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!

 
2013-07-26 02:59:28 PM  

Peki: GPS thigamajig


You sound old.

I'm not that young, but damn man.  GPS navigation works fine the VAST majority of the time, especially if you use it on a device that is always up to date.  Toss that 5-year-old Garmin and get a smartphone.
 
2013-07-26 03:00:24 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.


I'm aware of that. The militarization of the police force has led to incidents like this.  They are a direct result of the war on drugs.
 
2013-07-26 03:00:32 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!


Which, had they bothered to check the dispatch information and numerics, would never have happened.

YAY NEGLIGENCE!
 
2013-07-26 03:01:11 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.

Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!


Yeah, so what you're saying here is that when a homeowner has groups of people invading their property they should NOT be able to defend themselves.  Might as well call for banning guns, I guess.  Way to go.
 
2013-07-26 03:02:33 PM  

AngryDragon: The militarization of the police force has led to incidents like this.  They are a direct result of the war on drugs.


This has been going on longer than the war on drugs. Try before prohibition, and the rise of the classical major gangs in the larger cities and rural counties of the United States.

Even the concept of SWAT grew out of active shooters such as the Austin Belltower Shooting in 1966, rather than the war on drugs.

The first police in the United States used to be, as a rule, unarmed. It's an arms race at it's very definition.
 
2013-07-26 03:02:37 PM  
This Opposing Views website sure seems to be getting a lot of greens on Fark........
 
2013-07-26 03:02:57 PM  
sugardave

Might as well call for banning guns, I guess.

Pretty sure they have, honestly. Not a fan of Amendment II, at any rate.
 
2013-07-26 03:03:12 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Nina_Hartley's_Ass

did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Probably. Poor guy obviously never thought he'd have to defend himself from the police. He was wrong.


let's wait to see if the gun they said he had
a) actually exists
and
b) is registered to the homeowner

the "drop gun" is a favorite tactic of cops for a reason
 
2013-07-26 03:03:24 PM  
Texas tag unavailable
 
2013-07-26 03:03:47 PM  

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.


Absolutely. If you can't see the numbers on the house, it is an understandable mistake.
It's not like the cop cars have any tool for high powered illumination on them right?...

image.trucktrend.com
..oh.
 
2013-07-26 03:04:21 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BizarreMan: Note to self.

Pick up some glow in the dark paint and write my street and number on the front, back and sides of my house.

Also a big lighted sign that says, "Attention Law Enforcement: There is nothing illegal going on in this house. I swear. Please do not break into my house and kill me. Thank you."


Nothing illegal, my ass!! WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?

Now, put your hands up and empty your pockets...

/meow
 
2013-07-26 03:05:12 PM  

Magorn: the "drop gun" is a favorite tactic of cops for a reason


Oh yeah. All my cop buddies carry one in their trunks for just this sort of thing. In fact, one told me last night it saved him when he gunned down a five year old.

deartheonion.files.wordpress.com

Because finding a gun with it's serial numbers filed down and the barrel run through with a file to eliminate the rifling isn't going to raise suspicions at ALL on a 72 year old, right FARK?
 
2013-07-26 03:05:43 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.


Causes and causes.

This tragedy happend because a bunch of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs made a mistake and went to the wrong house.

The police force is a swollen morass full of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs because ________.
 
2013-07-26 03:08:12 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-26 03:09:08 PM  

sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.

Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!

Yeah, so what you're saying here is that when a homeowner has groups of people invading their property they should NOT be able to defend themselves.  Might as well call for banning guns, I guess.  Way to go.


Well, I'm not calling for citizens to draw on cops erroneously responding to a burglary call. But you go ahead and shoot the FedEx guy, no sense in taking chances.
 
2013-07-26 03:09:39 PM  

Chewb1zz: Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.


As a fellow Fort Worthian, I can second this.

Of course, it also depends on what neighborhood you're in, too.
 
2013-07-26 03:09:45 PM  

Ned Stark: Causes and causes.

This tragedy happend because a bunch of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs made a mistake and went to the wrong house.

The police force is a swollen morass full of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs because ________.


Socialism?
 
2013-07-26 03:10:50 PM  

Ned Stark: The police force is a swollen morass full of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs because ________.


...they draw from the general population?
 
2013-07-26 03:13:07 PM  
This cop was the kid who couldn't hit the ball in little league because the sun was in his eyes.
 
2013-07-26 03:13:39 PM  

Ned Stark: This tragedy happend because a bunch of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs made a mistake and went to the wrong house.

The police force is a swollen morass full of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs because ________.


They pay shiat in many areas of the country? They purposely look for underqualified people who are less intelligent? They throw people on the streets with little mental support or preparation? They encourage hostility as a matter of policy in some areas?

Hell. The big city in my county is hiring ex FELONS as long as they aren't drug or sex crime-related felonies under a second chance program. ALWAYS nice to see gang tats on the guy you called to help you.
 
2013-07-26 03:13:50 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.

Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!

Yeah, so what you're saying here is that when a homeowner has groups of people invading their property they should NOT be able to defend themselves.  Might as well call for banning guns, I guess.  Way to go.

Well, I'm not calling for citizens to draw on cops erroneously responding to a burglary call. But you go ahead and shoot the FedEx guy, no sense in taking chances.


Where do you live that the FedEx guy shows up with his buddies armed to the teeth in the middle of the night?  Really, this is completely indefensible.
 
2013-07-26 03:14:13 PM  
Police killing innocent citizens and getting away with it is a characteristic of so called "3rd world hell holes".
 
2013-07-26 03:14:25 PM  
After reading the news story that was linked in the link, sounds like a really horrible accident and the police are doing damage control.

Sounds like they went there expecting to run into people robbing a house. Man standing in the dark with a gun, he doesn't drop it so they have to shoot. He was just defending his property and was probably confused/scared. I'm guessing an investigation will show this but the only people who will be punished were whoever falsified the report.

Heh, these militarization comments always make me laugh like every street cop has a rocket launcher and a .50 cal on his tank.
 
2013-07-26 03:14:31 PM  

LaughingRadish: I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.


It would be nice, but, until the police pull this kind of "accidental" crap on some politician's or other influential person's family, it probably won't ever lead to anything more than a slap on the wrist.
 
2013-07-26 03:14:42 PM  

Enemabag Jones: WTF is wrong with this country?


Eisenhower warned us of the Military-Industrial Complex when leaving office.  SWAT teams are simply part of that system.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for putting up with this bullshiat for 60 years now.
 
2013-07-26 03:14:44 PM  

Maul555: Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.

Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...


Uhh... Hello... You're all missing a very rudimentary point here. Even the earliest gasoline burning cars had some sort of electrical generating device, be it a magneto, generator, or whatever. It won't fire without a spark. Period.
 
2013-07-26 03:16:29 PM  

basemetal: Meh, the case will be settled quickly, for way less than a jury would award, and then the police will never face the wrath they deserve.

/the new American way


Settled?  This should not be just a civil matter a murder occurred.  Unless we start locking the murderers within the police department up we will never stop these heinous crimes they constantly commit.  No other profession can make as many and as large of mistakes as the police and get away with it.  Seriously, we constantly let them walk away with less than a slap on the wrist for obvious incompetence that leads to the death of other civilians.  If a non-police civilian did the same they would be in prison.  For christs sake in another article today a guy is being charged with 2 counts of manslaughter because after he wrecked his vehicle some ppl who attempted to walk up to his crash got electrocuted to death if he was a cop.. yeah notta would have happened legally to him.
 
2013-07-26 03:17:39 PM  

AngryDragon: Ned Stark: Causes and causes.

This tragedy happend because a bunch of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs made a mistake and went to the wrong house.

The police force is a swollen morass full of over armed, over confident, aggressive thugs because ________.

Socialism?

For-profit prison systems/"Tough on crime" Law enforcement agencies dependent on tax payer funds/Corporate influence

FTFY.
 
2013-07-26 03:18:48 PM  

Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


img2-1.timeinc.net
We need some way to push it!
 
2013-07-26 03:19:40 PM  

PacManDreaming: For-profit prison systems/"Tough on crime" Law enforcement agencies dependent on tax payer funds/Corporate influence


For profit prisons make up less than 9% of the American Prison System. There are no for-profit LE agencies in the United States.

I understand your issue with them, but pretending they're the reason why this situation exists is silly. The major factor in the overstep of law enforcement authority in the last 30 years has been directly related to the War on Drugs and War on Terror.
 
2013-07-26 03:21:59 PM  

Magorn: b) is registered to the homeowner


It's Texas, we don't have to register our firearms.

Tat'dGreaser: Heh, these militarization comments always make me laugh like every street cop has a rocket launcher and a .50 cal on his tank.


If they did, I'd be a cop, too. Of course, I'd opt for the Quad 50.
 
2013-07-26 03:24:17 PM  

PacManDreaming: If they did, I'd be a cop, too. Of course, I'd opt for the Quad 50.


You got to admit a ZSU-23-4 would be an awesome ride. Can you put spinners on a tracked vehicle?
 
2013-07-26 03:24:56 PM  

PacManDreaming: If they did, I'd be a cop, too. Of course, I'd opt for the Quad 50.


That would be pretty sweet
 
2013-07-26 03:26:21 PM  

hardinparamedic: PacManDreaming: For-profit prison systems/"Tough on crime" Law enforcement agencies dependent on tax payer funds/Corporate influence

For profit prisons make up less than 9% of the American Prison System. There are no for-profit LE agencies in the United States.

I understand your issue with them, but pretending they're the reason why this situation exists is silly. The major factor in the overstep of law enforcement authority in the last 30 years has been directly related to the War on Drugs and War on Terror.


Aren't there some railway lines that employ their own police department? I thought Union Pacific did.
 
2013-07-26 03:26:33 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass:

Well, I'm not calling for citizens to draw on cops erroneously responding to a burglary call. But you go ahead and shoot the FedEx guy, no sense in taking chances.


If the fedex guy is at your house in the middle of the night and seems to be a threat, sure.

Most fedex guys prefer to just ring the doorbell and leave the package on your doorstep. They have lots of deliveries to make, ya know?
 
2013-07-26 03:27:33 PM  

way south: Going to the wrong house is a mistake, and a honest one most times.
Blasting the first person you see because your scared... That's something else.

That's a "who made these chickenshiats cops?!" levels of incompetence.

/and they lied, that's just icing on the cake.
/it should be manslaughter for the lot of them.


Who doesn't have a 404 house not found error from time to time.
They should lose their badge, pay restitution, and possibly lose their freedom.
 
2013-07-26 03:27:52 PM  

redmid17: Aren't there some railway lines that employ their own police department? I thought Union Pacific did.


IIRC, they're actually US DOT cops in that capacity, or armed security guards.

The last major attempt at trying to start a private police force was in Arizona in the 1980s by Rural/Metro Ambulance. They were basically told by the US DOJ that they were not allowed to do for-profit policing, and that they would not be recognized as a commissioned law enforcement authority, so they disbanded it.
 
2013-07-26 03:29:07 PM  
I can't even read the farking article on my phone through all those goddamn hover ads.
 
2013-07-26 03:30:13 PM  

PacManDreaming: LaughingRadish: I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.

It would be nice, but, until the police pull this kind of "accidental" crap on some politician's or other influential person's family, it probably won't ever lead to anything more than a slap on the wrist.


There was a mayor in MD who had pot planted at his house by the cops. They busted in, shot his dogs, and arrested everyone in the house. Not much came of that, a settlement and vague "SWAT reforms." The chief said the department would do it the same way again if the situation arose.
 
2013-07-26 03:30:27 PM  
hardinparamedic
The last major attempt at trying to start a private police force was in Arizona in the 1980s by Rural/Metro Ambulance. They were basically told by the US DOJ that they were not allowed to do for-profit policing, and that they would not be recognized as a commissioned law enforcement authority, so they disbanded it.

I am 99% sure the city I am in uses the for-profit policing model.
 
2013-07-26 03:32:17 PM  

hardinparamedic: redmid17: Aren't there some railway lines that employ their own police department? I thought Union Pacific did.

IIRC, they're actually US DOT cops in that capacity, or armed security guards.

The last major attempt at trying to start a private police force was in Arizona in the 1980s by Rural/Metro Ambulance. They were basically told by the US DOJ that they were not allowed to do for-profit policing, and that they would not be recognized as a commissioned law enforcement authority, so they disbanded it.


That makes sense. Streamlines where the police authority comes from. Having track in 50 states and lord knows how many cities and counties would probably lead to a few disputes.
 
2013-07-26 03:33:39 PM  

AngryDragon: I'm aware of that. The militarization of the police force has led to incidents like this.  They are a direct result of the war on drugs.


There you go.
 
2013-07-26 03:33:48 PM  

hardinparamedic: PacManDreaming: For-profit prison systems/"Tough on crime" Law enforcement agencies dependent on tax payer funds/Corporate influence

For profit prisons make up less than 9% of the American Prison System. There are no for-profit LE agencies in the United States.

I understand your issue with them, but pretending they're the reason why this situation exists is silly. The major factor in the overstep of law enforcement authority in the last 30 years has been directly related to the War on Drugs and War on Terror.


The prison itself may not be for profit but what about the companies that supply goods and services to the prison?  Clothing.  Food.  Toiletries.  Etc.  I'm asking more than I'm telling.  I'm guessing those services are for profit and benefit from a full prison.

And by the way... 9% is for all intents and purposes 1 out of 10.  That's a lot.
 
2013-07-26 03:34:06 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Well, I'm not calling for citizens to draw on cops erroneously responding to a burglary call. But you go ahead and shoot the FedEx guy, no sense in taking chances.


Do you realize that the armed civilian in this scenario is NOT the person who lost their shiat and killed an innocent human?

He attempted to take enough time to determine who the other people were.
Unfortunately this allowed the cops to fire first.
Rookie mistake


I guess not bothering with that "know your target" crap does give you a speed advantage.
 
2013-07-26 03:34:57 PM  

redmid17: That makes sense. Streamlines where the police authority comes from. Having track in 50 states and lord knows how many cities and counties would probably lead to a few disputes.


DOT Cops and Game Wardens are two people you don't want to mess with. DOT Cops can take your car and everything in it on a whim. The Game Warden can do that to your house and everything you own on the guise of "poaching".

Enemabag Jones: I am 99% sure the city I am in uses the for-profit policing model.


I know you're being snarky, but there's a major difference between somewhere being a speed trap, and a corporation having the power to bring state and federal charges against someone for a crime they accused another person of.
 
2013-07-26 03:35:19 PM  

Enemabag Jones: hardinparamedic
The last major attempt at trying to start a private police force was in Arizona in the 1980s by Rural/Metro Ambulance. They were basically told by the US DOJ that they were not allowed to do for-profit policing, and that they would not be recognized as a commissioned law enforcement authority, so they disbanded it.

I am 99% sure the city I am in uses the for-profit policing model.


Which Springfield?
 
2013-07-26 03:35:58 PM  

sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: phenn: They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.

You want unarmed police a la the UK? Start by giving up your second amendment rights to private ownership.

Not willing to do that? Then your request is not realistic in the least.

How about removing the need for no-knock drug warrants and citizens feeling they need to be armed to the teeth by ending the farking war on drugs already.

That's not what this was.

Nope, just a bunch of trigger-happy jack-booted thugs itching to put some holes in someone [who pointed a gun at them].  YEEHAW!

Yeah, so what you're saying here is that when a homeowner has groups of people invading their property they should NOT be able to defend themselves.  Might as well call for banning guns, I guess.  Way to go.

Well, I'm not calling for citizens to draw on cops erroneously responding to a burglary call. But you go ahead and shoot the FedEx guy, no sense in taking chances.

Where do you live that the FedEx guy shows up with his buddies armed to the teeth in the middle of the night?  Really, this is completely indefensible.


Good point.

If my FedEx guy shows up in the middle of the night with some buddies, all dressed in black and holding flashlights and rifles and then proceeds to work his way towards my back yard you BET I am gonna shoot his ass.

Fortunately me FedEx guy is not a complete moron like these cops.
 
2013-07-26 03:37:33 PM  
redmid17
Which Springfield?


The one from the city the Simpsons is in.

/Sorry, not effectively giving up my real name online.
 
2013-07-26 03:39:11 PM  

AngryDragon: The militarization of the police force has led to incidents like this. They are a direct result of the war on drugs.


I don't care how many people are killed as long as nobody is getting high.
 
2013-07-26 03:39:12 PM  
The claim poor lighting, yet they were using flashlights?

At some point PDs need to change their practices to begin hiring the best and the brightest of the bunch
 
2013-07-26 03:41:27 PM  

hardinparamedic: For profit prisons make up less than 9% of the American Prison System. There are no for-profit LE agencies in the United States.


OMG, you just made me laugh so hard I hurt myself. Private contractors supply state and federal prisons with services other than just detention. And yes, state and federal prisons can be for-profit, too. Law enforcement agencies routinely seize assets(property and money) from criminals. Of course, sometimes they forget to make sure the people they're stealing from are actually criminals.

And then they top it off with bullshiat like this.
 
2013-07-26 03:42:09 PM  

kosherkow: At some point PDs need to change their practices to begin hiring the best and the brightest of the bunch


They'd have to start paying commensurate with the agony, in that case. People like to tout around figures of cops making 100+k as a beat cop, while leaving out the fact that incorporates less than 1% of the Nation, typically high income, high cost of living areas.

Hell. an NYPD cop makes 36k a year starting. They start out in my city at 32K.

Doesn't attract a lot of people who want to do it on the virtue of their civic responsibility.

/Although, there is something to be said that anecdotally, cities that hire from a volunteer reserve program for their paid cops tend to have a higher overall quality.
 
2013-07-26 03:43:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: You got to admit a ZSU-23-4 would be an awesome ride.


I'm gonna have to agree with you on this. The Russians made some pretty amazing combat vehicles.

Tat'dGreaser: That would be pretty sweet


It'd be easier to get through traffic, here. Load it up with API and watch all your traffic problems disappear in a cloud of smoke.
 
2013-07-26 03:45:19 PM  
kosherkow
The claim poor lighting, yet they were using flashlights?
At some point PDs need to change their practices to begin hiring the best and the brightest of the bunch


But then who will follow zero tolerance policies, arrest people who break the law regardless of context, because prosecuting people is up to the DA, tap down people in the street walking by, just because?

You want the brightest people to do that?
 
2013-07-26 03:45:48 PM  

hardinparamedic: kosherkow: At some point PDs need to change their practices to begin hiring the best and the brightest of the bunch

They'd have to start paying commensurate with the agony, in that case. People like to tout around figures of cops making 100+k as a beat cop, while leaving out the fact that incorporates less than 1% of the Nation, typically high income, high cost of living areas.

Hell. an NYPD cop makes 36k a year starting. They start out in my city at 32K.

Doesn't attract a lot of people who want to do it on the virtue of their civic responsibility.

/Although, there is something to be said that anecdotally, cities that hire from a volunteer reserve program for their paid cops tend to have a higher overall quality.


I was trying to go with the "brightest" in a visual sense, you know, so they could see the house numbers :)

a human glowstick!
 
2013-07-26 03:46:02 PM  

hardinparamedic: I understand your issue with them, but pretending they're the reason why this situation exists is silly. The major factor in the overstep of law enforcement authority in the last 30 years has been directly related to the War on Drugs and War on Terror.


Yes, but there is a deeper reason. There's money to be made  with these two "wars". That's where private companies come in.

/sorry, meant to address this in an earlier post.
 
2013-07-26 03:53:19 PM  
The obvious solution is Night Vision Goggles for every member of the police force.
 
2013-07-26 03:55:16 PM  

hardinparamedic: kosherkow: At some point PDs need to change their practices to begin hiring the best and the brightest of the bunch

They'd have to start paying commensurate with the agony, in that case. People like to tout around figures of cops making 100+k as a beat cop, while leaving out the fact that incorporates less than 1% of the Nation, typically high income, high cost of living areas.

Hell. an NYPD cop makes 36k a year starting. They start out in my city at 32K.

Doesn't attract a lot of people who want to do it on the virtue of their civic responsibility.

/Although, there is something to be said that anecdotally, cities that hire from a volunteer reserve program for their paid cops tend to have a higher overall quality.


Everything I found on nypd salary says they start at 44+
 
2013-07-26 03:57:09 PM  

SpectroBoy: Maybe, just maybe, the risk doesn't justify blasting every innocent citizen that causes you a little concern.


On the other hand, you should be terrified of anyone with waders and a gaff in his hand. They're seething tornadoes of fury and fear.
 
2013-07-26 03:59:51 PM  
The only good cop is a dead cop.
 
2013-07-26 04:00:07 PM  

redmid17: Everything I found on nypd salary says they start at 44+


Control-F and type in "What are the Benefits". NYPD starts at 34K. In a city where an apartment is 1500/month for a studio.
 
2013-07-26 04:01:31 PM  

kidgenius: Most fedex guys prefer to just ring the doorbell and leave the package on your doorstep. toss your new TV over the fence.


FTFY
 
2013-07-26 04:12:39 PM  

hardinparamedic: Not really. Actual SWAT teams are smaller than people think.

What has happened, especially around Warrant/Fugitive Apprehension teams and Narcotics Squads, is that they have become tactical in nature due to the risk involved in these. It's not unusual to see a warrant served - especially in a known drug or gang area - by people dressed out in tactical gear and using heavy firepower.

You're only - usually - going to see a true SWAT operator in a situation such as an active shooter, barricade, hostage, or unusual situation.


Remind me again what the "T" in SWAT stands for.
 
2013-07-26 04:14:27 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: After reading the news story that was linked in the link, sounds like a really horrible accident and the police are doing damage control.

Sounds like they went there expecting to run into people robbing a house. Man standing in the dark with a gun, he doesn't drop it so they have to shoot. He was just defending his property and was probably confused/scared. I'm guessing an investigation will show this but the only people who will be punished were whoever falsified the report.

Heh, these militarization comments always make me laugh like every street cop has a rocket launcher and a .50 cal on his tank.


Is there some reason it has to be  every police officer for you be alarmed?
i282.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-26 04:16:04 PM  

TwowheelinTim: Maul555: Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.

Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...

Uhh... Hello... You're all missing a very rudimentary point here. Even the earliest gasoline burning cars had some sort of electrical generating device, be it a magneto, generator, or whatever. It won't fire without a spark. Period.


Are you continuing the joke?  We were all in on it except Maul555.  This is getting confusing.
 
2013-07-26 04:16:16 PM  

indy_kid: Eisenhower warned us of the Military-Industrial Complex when leaving office. SWAT teams are simply part of that system. We have no one to blame but ourselves for putting up with this bullshiat for 60 years now.


The other option is trying to stand up to them.  But good luck with that, they have rigged the system so any honest person can't get elected to get to a postion high enough to legally do anything about it.  And even if you did, you'd be assassinated covertly and/or overtly.
 
2013-07-26 04:22:36 PM  

flynn80: indy_kid: Eisenhower warned us of the Military-Industrial Complex when leaving office. SWAT teams are simply part of that system. We have no one to blame but ourselves for putting up with this bullshiat for 60 years now.

The other option is trying to stand up to them.  But good luck with that, they have rigged the system so any honest person can't get elected to get to a postion high enough to legally do anything about it.  And even if you did, you'd be assassinated covertly and/or overtly.


All you can do is keep your head down, spread dissent, and damage the system however you can without taking too much risk.  Eventually it will collapse, but probably not in our lifetime...which is good.  Life is still pretty damn good, when the SHTF, it's going to be pretty damn bad for a long time.
 
2013-07-26 04:27:28 PM  
Aren't those addresses on opposite sides of the street? I know when I'm going someplace for the first time I start looking at addresses as soon as I'm on that street so I at least know if its going to be on the left or right.
 
2013-07-26 04:28:39 PM  

This text is now purple: Remind me again what the "T" in SWAT stands for.


Calling someone SWAT implies that they are a member of an actual SWAT Team. SWAT is not what you, personally, want to define it as, but an actual established organization in a police department who is trained and equipped to handle situations beyond the scope and normal encounter of a beat cop.

Most departments follow the CALEA requirements for members to be a part of that, but people who are not a part of the SWAT team, but are in a high risk assignment may use additional tactical protective gear.

Even then, the definition of requirements to be in SWAT varies wildly from state to state, and city to city. In some, you have to have had X years on the police department and Y amount of additional training before even being able to go through the entry training, and they prefer military experience. In other small towns, you can just buy the patch yourself and slap it on.
 
2013-07-26 04:41:04 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.


Absolutely. If you can't see the numbers on the house, it is an understandable mistake.
It's not like the cop cars have any tool for high powered illumination on them right?...

[image.trucktrend.com image 749x469]
..oh.


Um, yeah, did you ever read the rest of my post?
 
2013-07-26 04:49:59 PM  
FTFA : 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane

In that case, they weren't even on the right side of the road.  One side is going to have odd house numbers, one side is going to have even.

kidgenius: Yeah, I know....only if those cops had a way of compensating for bad lighting


Cops can't be trued with flashlights.  There was a "cop kills man" story in the area (Plano, north of Dallas) a couple of years ago where the cops story was "I meant to turn on the flashlight, but I accidentally pulled the trigger and shot him dead".  In theory, the cops were staking out a suspected drug dealer.  In practice, no drugs were found, the guy just shot him.  Naturally, he got a few weeks of paid vacation, he's still a cop.

linky :http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Officer-Blames-Fatal-Shooting-on-Tr ig ger-Mistake-109336669.html
 
2013-07-26 04:52:05 PM  

Godscrack: [imageshack.us image 646x426]

Were these the officers involved?


Nice touch.

'An Innocent Man' is a great and underrated film.
 
2013-07-26 04:55:35 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

What if he was wearing a hoodie?


That's only okay when the person doing the shooting is a civilian.
 
2013-07-26 05:03:05 PM  

hardinparamedic: redmid17: Everything I found on nypd salary says they start at 44+

Control-F and type in "What are the Benefits". NYPD starts at 34K. In a city where an apartment is 1500/month for a studio.


Jesus, it's that low? No f*cking way am I going there for it then.

Even if it is 44 that's ridiculously low
 
2013-07-26 05:08:19 PM  
hardinparamedic:  In a city where an apartment is 1500/month for a studio.

There are plenty of places one can live in NYC for far far less.  You just don't get to live in Manhattan.
 
2013-07-26 05:28:27 PM  

hardinparamedic: I'd still trust a cop more than half these idiots on here.


so would I

// perhaps not these particular cops, but cops overall tend to respect the weapon more
 
2013-07-26 05:37:01 PM  
The fact that the cops aren't facing any kind of criminal charges is the bullsh*t here.  If a private citizen had done the same thing, it would have been at least manslaughter if not murder 2.  Even if they were acquitted, they would have rotted in jail for months, probably been fired from their job, and faced six-digit charges in mounting a legal defense.

The cops get a paid vacation, and then go back to work.  The department can and will be sued, but all the cops are going to get for punishment is a dismissal.  This is ridiculous.
 
2013-07-26 05:46:54 PM  

Nofun: The fact that the cops aren't facing any kind of criminal charges is the bullsh*t here.  If a private citizen had done the same thing, it would have been at least manslaughter if not murder 2.  Even if they were acquitted, they would have rotted in jail for months, probably been fired from their job, and faced six-digit charges in mounting a legal defense.

The cops get a paid vacation, and then go back to work.  The department can and will be sued, but all the cops are going to get for punishment is a dismissal bupkiss.  This is ridiculous.


No way will they be dismissed.
 
2013-07-26 05:54:52 PM  
Fark Cop Bootlickers Apologists to justify the cops' actions and blame the victim in 5... 4... 3...
 
2013-07-26 06:00:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: thetubameister: Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?

When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.


This may well be the smartest thing said in this thread, it should be repeated again and again, like so many bears.
 
2013-07-26 06:04:32 PM  

buckeyebrain: Fark Cop Bootlickers Apologists to justify the cops' actions and blame the victim in 5... 4... 3...


Where has CruiserTwelve been?
 
2013-07-26 06:05:05 PM  
They didn't realize they were on the even side of the street?
 
2013-07-26 06:05:51 PM  

firefly212: hardinparamedic: thetubameister: Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?

When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.

This may well be the smartest thing said in this thread, it should be repeated again and again, like so many bears.


I don't want state or federal problems to reach my sheriff.  Part of his job is to keeps the feds out.  But with the rest of it I agree.
 
2013-07-26 06:05:55 PM  

hardinparamedic: PacManDreaming: If they did, I'd be a cop, too. Of course, I'd opt for the Quad 50.

You got to admit a ZSU-23-4 would be an awesome ride. Can you put spinners on a tracked vehicle?


Joe Friday would approve...   http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-FIFU2bJnuh7mu/dragnet_1987_friday_an d _streebeck_attacking_the_milk_factory/
 
2013-07-26 06:11:44 PM  
Peki: GPS thigamajig

You sound old.

I'm not that young, but damn man.  GPS navigation works fine the VAST majority of the time, especially if you use it on a device that is always up to date.  Toss that 5-year-old Garmin and get a smartphone.

I'm 30, so your call on the old part. The GPS apps on my fiance's Blackberry suck, and it's a 2-yr-old phone, so again, your call on how out of touch I am with the tech. I haven't seen one yet that does as good as job as taking 5 minutes before my trip to look up the directions on mapquest and use google maps to physically see the area. I also note the exits immediately prior so I don't get stuck in the fast lane and have to make a sudden move across four lanes of traffic. I live in Los Angeles, so again, my experience may be biased.

I'm fine with being a bit of a luddite. I don't have a phone, but as I'm self-employed and a volunteer, I find it's convenient for people to have to work a little bit harder to get a hold of me. Most people's phones have email and can type a short enough message for me to know what they need. *shrugs*
 
2013-07-26 06:21:09 PM  
404 Error

/sorry if repeat, didn't see it in the first 50 and not gonna read 200+ comments
 
2013-07-26 06:22:26 PM  

heili skrimsli: buckeyebrain: Fark Cop Bootlickers Apologists to justify the cops' actions and blame the victim in 5... 4... 3...

Where has CruiserTwelve been?


You said it, not me.
 
2013-07-26 07:00:55 PM  

hardinparamedic: I can tell you exactly how this will end. This will disappear. The department will settle with the family for an undisclosed amount while having the family sign a binding NDA. And that will be it.


Where the undisclosed amount is probably $0 and agreeing to probably not kill the rest of the family the same way.
 
2013-07-26 07:05:51 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.


Didn't this already happen? There was a "minute men" civilian border group that pretended to be cops/INS and slaughtered a family and stole a bunch of jewelery. They killed the dad and the daughter, but only wounded the mother because she grabbed a gun and fired back. One of their members was a drug dealer and he told them his competitor had a bunch of money and guns that they could use for their border patrol group, and that's why they targeted this family. I think it was in Arizona.
 
2013-07-26 07:06:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: They pay shiat in many areas of the country?


Many cops in California make over $200,000 a year, and they're some of the most brutal in the country.
 
2013-07-26 07:09:14 PM  

fnordfocus: hardinparamedic: I can tell you exactly how this will end. This will disappear. The department will settle with the family for an undisclosed amount while having the family sign a binding NDA. And that will be it.

Where the undisclosed amount is probably $0 and agreeing to probably not kill the rest of the family the same way.


Did this happen in Austin?  Lawsuits in austin against APD tend to dissapear very very very quickly with no settlement.
 
2013-07-26 07:27:01 PM  

hardinparamedic: How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.


You'd think like cops throwing diabetics in the drunk tank, raiding the wrong house, tazering blind people, would be the Police equivalent of never events that get everyone involved fired automatically.
 
2013-07-26 07:28:09 PM  

fnordfocus: Many cops in California make over $200,000 a year, and they're some of the most brutal in the country.


What departments, fnord?
 
2013-07-26 07:32:01 PM  
meh, it's in Texas they love authoritarianism, these guys are heroes. Even his neighbor is apologizing for the cops in the article.
 
2013-07-26 07:38:16 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: hardinparamedic: redmid17: Everything I found on nypd salary says they start at 44+

Control-F and type in "What are the Benefits". NYPD starts at 34K. In a city where an apartment is 1500/month for a studio.

Jesus, it's that low? No f*cking way am I going there for it then.

Even if it is 44 that's ridiculously low


I think that site's just very out of date.  This other official NYPD site has much higher numbers:  http://www.nypdrecruit.com/benefits-salary/overview

$44,744 while you're in academy, $46,288 when you start working, rising to $90,829 after five more years .  Before overtime.

How many other 25 year olds make over $90,000?
 
2013-07-26 07:47:50 PM  

hardinparamedic: What departments, fnord?


Just about any department in California.  The average Oakland Police Officer makes $188,000 all in.

Oakland has an Officer who cleared over $200,000 in overtime alone last year, and 147 Officers who made over $200,000 last year.  That's not counting sergeants or brass.

http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area
 
2013-07-26 08:13:37 PM  
Was the victim black?

Are the cops white?

No?

Non story


/Back to the Zimmerman threads
 
2013-07-26 08:16:15 PM  
One day I want to see a homeowner drop all the cops or swat team or whatever when they try to break into the wrong home. I want the homeowner to get away scott free and get a huge settlement for the trouble of executing the cops.
 
2013-07-26 08:51:15 PM  

fnordfocus: Just about any department in California.  The average Oakland Police Officer makes $188,000 all in.

Oakland has an Officer who cleared over $200,000 in overtime alone last year, and 147 Officers who made over $200,000 last year.  That's not counting sergeants or brass.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics would like to have a word with your journalist.

California employs nearly 70,000 Police and Sheriff Officers.
 
2013-07-26 09:02:12 PM  
The trooper that murdered my cousin during an unlawful entry said it was dark and he thought my cousin had a gun. It was 7pm in the middle of summer and still full light out. The neighbor standing 50ft away in the street could see my cousin clearly. My cousin just asked for a warrant and held the door shut as they kicked it in without one. The witness said my cousin was crouched in a defensive position with his arms up to protect his head. The coroner backed this up with the powder burns. No weapons were ever found. Booth troopers there are still free today.
 
2013-07-26 09:19:14 PM  
hardinparamedic:The Bureau of Labor Statistics would like to have a word with your journalist.

Did you look at the link?  It's just raw numbers as reported by government agencies.  Do you think the Cities of Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco, are lying and inflating what they pay Officers?

California employs nearly 70,000 Police and Sheriff Officers.

And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

Compared to the number of people I know who earn over $200,000, the thousands of California Officers who do seem like many.
 
2013-07-26 09:20:07 PM  

SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.


When  my son turned 16, I told him never to trust the police. If he got into trouble, to make no statements and ask for a lawyer. To use every opportunity to contact me so that I could get legal assistance. I told him that the cops will use anything he says to incriminate him and obtain a conviction. I printed a copy of a document that I downloaded from the web regarding his legal rights and made sure he read it.

What is bizarre is that he was and continues to be a great kid. University student, no drugs or tobacco, very into health. I had no reason to expect that he would get into trouble with the law but if something happened, I didn't want the gang-bangers with a badge to fark him.

I'm a 70's child - not given to respecting the law, but even I grew up thinking that the cops knew right from wrong.
 
2013-07-26 09:31:28 PM  

fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.


The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion

The mean income of a police officer in the United States is 38k.
 
2013-07-26 09:39:29 PM  
Why are people complaining now? They cheered for this. They called those who warned where the changes were heading "paranoid".  Ridicule and horrible insults were used against anyone who warned of the growing powers of police in the drug war, for nannying, for safety, for 'law enforcement' and so on. Americans were warned that the military personnel used in foreign occupations would become the police in this country. But the worship of 'the troops' and 'cops' went on anyway. More and more tool laws were cheered into being. After all, we could trust the cops to only go after bad people. And only those other people who lived on the wrong side of the tracks would be collateral damage. Those who warned of abuse or even plain human error were again called paranoid.

Now the foreign occupations have come home. This is how it works in an occupation. Men paranoid for their own lives shoot first. Even the ones who didn't participate in the actions overseas have been trained this way. What ever surprises them or even moves gets shot dead. The powers of the drug wars, the need to use armed men for everything, and so on mean a lot of home entries and of course all the mistakes that happen with that.

aseras: One day I want to see a homeowner drop all the cops or swat team or whatever when they try to break into the wrong home. I want the homeowner to get away scott free and get a huge settlement for the trouble of executing the cops.


That's not going to happen. They will just apply more force until the homeowner is overwhelmed and killed. They'll use a tank. They'll burn the home down. Americans cheered it on before so long as the people being attacked were properly demonized in the media. Today the cops could call in an airstrike if they have to and the public would accept it. In fact they did once a long time ago. Burned down several homes in the process.

But if enough americans start shooting back a lot of these people will quit being cops.
 
2013-07-26 10:13:22 PM  
Nothing will be done here, nothing will change. Move along, citizen.
 
2013-07-26 10:21:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion


I could only find one Bay Area department paying below $83k for new recruits.  Regardless, it's still about three times what the average Californian earns, so I don't think it's reasonable to say we aren't paying enough to expect competent and non-corrupt Officers.

Also, 5% would be about 3,500 Officers state wide?  There's about 2,300 Officers over $120k in San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland alone, so I'm a bit skeptical.
 
2013-07-26 10:26:07 PM  

Farxist Marxist: SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.

When  my son turned 16, I told him never to trust the police. If he got into trouble, to make no statements and ask for a lawyer. To use every opportunity to contact me so that I could get legal assistance. I told him that the cops will use anything he says to incriminate him and obtain a conviction. I printed a copy of a document that I downloaded from the web regarding his legal rights and made sure he read it.

What is bizarre is that he was and continues to be a great kid. University student, no drugs or tobacco, very into health. I had no reason to expect that he would get into trouble with the law but if something happened, I didn't want the gang-bangers with a badge to fark him.

I'm a 70's child - not given to respecting the law, but even I grew up thinking that the cops knew right from wrong.


I found out in '78 that Texas State Troopers were dishonest as hell and took bribes from companies and threatened you if you pursued action.
 
2013-07-26 10:36:27 PM  
House numbers 404 and 409 would be on opposite sides of the street. Did this not come up during the pre-raid briefing?

/Hey Lou, after you turn onto the street the house will be on the left
//Right, chief.
///Huh? The right?
////Correct
 
2013-07-27 01:23:27 AM  

fnordfocus: hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: And I didn't say all of them made over $200,000.  I just said many.

The mean is 83k, with the top 5% making over 120K.

Less than 5% of all non-detective officers in California make over 120K. It's not many. It's a small portion of the total. Unless people are lying on their taxes in a mass fassion

I could only find one Bay Area department paying below $83k for new recruits.  Regardless, it's still about three times what the average Californian earns, so I don't think it's reasonable to say we aren't paying enough to expect competent and non-corrupt Officers.

ThereAlso, 5% would be about 3,500 Officers state wide?  's about 2,300 Officers over $120k in San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland alone, so I'm a bit skeptical.


I have a feeling that Hardin's numbers are just the base salary & doesn't include those 'little' things like overtime (which if done the way that most police seem to do it, can easily double that base)
 
2013-07-27 08:10:39 AM  
They mistook him for the family dog...
 
2013-07-27 09:54:09 AM  

SpectroBoy: It is funny how many cops and other people believe this crap.

Cops are LESS LIKELY to die on the job than


I think the important statistic is that a police is about twice as likely to kill an innocent person as they are to die on the job.
 
2013-07-27 10:11:52 AM  
Happiness is a warm gun.  Bang, bang, shoot, shoot.
 
2013-07-27 10:18:28 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: [insert usual rant against police here]


{insert usual apologist rant supporting incompetence, general asshattedness and gratuitous brutality here]


/and we're done
 
2013-07-27 12:11:25 PM  

OKObserver: Happiness is a warm gun.  Bang, bang, shoot, shoot.


Or the cop version... bark, bark, shoot, shoot.
 
Displayed 276 of 276 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report