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(Opposing Views)   Cops go to the wrong address, scare a 72-year-old man, and then shoot him dead. Their excuse? The lighting was bad and they couldn't see what was going on   (opposingviews.com) divider line 276
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14553 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2013 at 1:34 PM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 02:16:52 PM
They must just give any shlub a badge these days.  I don't know, but from the little bit of COPS I've seen on teevee, when they get to the house they call it in to confirm they are where they SHOULD be to dispatch.  As a way of letting them know there is more to come.
 
2013-07-26 02:17:29 PM

Facetious_Speciest: I almost never agree with you, but this is right on.


Well, maybe we can share a beer one day. I tend not to be as snarky and more down to earth outside of FARK. I'm really a nice guy, for the most part.
 
2013-07-26 02:18:53 PM
It's not even that the cops can fark up and go to the wrong address, a judge who is loose with warrants will write one based on a tip... that came from a "CI".

This frightens the fark out of me.  Police can legally bust your door down, and come in blazing because someone "told them there was illegal activity going on"
 
2013-07-26 02:18:59 PM

SpectroBoy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

According to the medical examiner in May, Waller's place of death was in his garage.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fort-Worth-Police-Affidavit-Cites-L ig hting-in-Shooting-at-Wrong-House-216851981.html


"They then encountered Waller near the corner of the home as they approached the garage."

I'm not seeing the conflict in these imprecise accounts.
 
2013-07-26 02:19:47 PM
I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.
 
2013-07-26 02:21:04 PM

hardinparamedic: JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.

Isn't it nice to know that you, as a Doctor, have more oversight than a cop does, and he can kill someone much easier than you can usually?


1. I guess I need to work on my trolling... :D

2. What's really fun is I'll get sued over a bad outcome, even if I do everything right. Police officers have, time and time again, killed people through sheer negligence and stupidity, and all they get is a couple days of paid vacation and some pats on the back. The real fun, however, is that one city that defeated a discrimination lawsuit because they refused to hire people who were too smart. After all, we can't have smart cops.
 
2013-07-26 02:21:21 PM

JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.


It is funny how many cops and other people believe this crap.

www.riskmanagementmonitor.com

Cops are LESS LIKELY to die on the job than
* Fishermen
* Loggers
* Pilots and flight engineers
* Farmers
* Miners
* Roofers
* Garbage men
* Professional drivers
* industrial machine workers

They score TENTH

Maybe, just maybe, the risk doesn't justify blasting every innocent citizen that causes you a little concern.

/Heretic, I know.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:51 PM

LaughingRadish: I want to see blunders like this result in hard time being served by the sloppy cops.  Until we stop accepting "oops, sorry" and say "sorry's not enough", we will continue to see more of this.


I can tell you exactly how this will end. This will disappear. The department will settle with the family for an undisclosed amount while having the family sign a binding NDA. And that will be it.

This needs to change. If I gave someone a drug that was clearly contraindicated and killed them out of my own incompetence, I'd be losing my license. The fact that a cop can do it, and still stay on the job, is sickening.
 
2013-07-26 02:22:54 PM

kidgenius: Chewb1zz: Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.

Just pulled up the streetview....

White letters on the black background on the curb. Big mailbox with numbering facing the street. And pretty farking close to a full moon that night. Yeah...no excuse at all.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=404+havenwood+lane%2C+fort+wor t h&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-97.230232!3d32.772463!2m2!1f252.81!2f68.14!4f75 !2m4!1e1!2m2!1sYMdo6QDJa7FMtqdmn6MLbg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d33359!2d- 81.4534189!3d41.517123!3m2!1i1920!2i1072!4f13.1&fid=5


Counterpoint - moonlight wouldn't have mattered if it was cloudy. What was the weather like?

/SO not defending this dimwits, just pointing out logical fallacy
 
2013-07-26 02:23:53 PM
They should face the death penalty for knowingly violating common safety procedures.
 
2013-07-26 02:24:24 PM

ChipNASA: This wouldn't have happened it he was black......


You are correct. Had the elderly gentleman been black, the police would have planted a controlled substance on his person and discharged his firearm multiple times to create the impression that they had been fired upon.
 
2013-07-26 02:24:24 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?


Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.
 
2013-07-26 02:25:58 PM

Maul555: Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.

Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...


Woooosh....
 
2013-07-26 02:27:04 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?

Again, and again, and again......

A group of robbers/hitmen will dress up, hit a place and identify themselves as cops, and either the homeowner will comply or be shot dead, they'll get out, and no one will call until too late, presuming it's the cops.


You're saying Waller should have shot first.
 
2013-07-26 02:27:05 PM
thats it, confidence in police officially at 0. it's time to fire them all
 
2013-07-26 02:27:06 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.


I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?
 
2013-07-26 02:27:18 PM
Everyone should google street view that address just to realize what a ridiculous claim these cops are making.

Not only is the address perfectly visible, but the location of that garage means these idiots had to have been traipsing around this guy's backyard with flashlights and guns.  Who wouldn't expect an armed homeowner to respond to that in TX?
 
2013-07-26 02:27:29 PM

tripleseven: It's not even that the cops can fark up and go to the wrong address, a judge who is loose with warrants will write one based on a tip... that came from a "CI".

This frightens the fark out of me.  Police can legally bust your door down, and come in blazing because someone "told them there was illegal activity going on"


That's not enough probable cause for you?  I'm sure it's For The ChildrenTM
 
2013-07-26 02:27:43 PM

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


Which makes this even worse.  If these streets are numbered like all the ones I've lived on, the odd and even numbers alternate sides of the street.  Which means they weren't just a couple houses down, but on the wrong side.

I thought there were laws against giving the mentally retarded firearms.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:02 PM
If it was too dark to read a white street number on the curb, and a clearly visible street number on the mailbox, then how the HELL was it light enough to see he was definitely holding a gun?

Sorry you stupid cops, you can't have it both ways.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:41 PM
Never live in a state, city, or town where you don't personally know who the responding officer will be at your residence. Introduce yourself. Know first names. I've learned that is a good thing to do.

You need to be able to de-escalate the situation when they are the ones escalating it.

Dick goes both ways.
 
2013-07-26 02:29:46 PM

Ivo Shandor: You mean like the one which banks use as an excuse when they foreclose on the wrong house?


How can that possibly be? I could almost understand if it was the house next door or 2 door down, but across the street?

My address is 30 Yellow Brick rd. The house across the street is 31 Yellow Brick rd. Odd numbers, even numbers across the street.

Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??
 
2013-07-26 02:29:49 PM
DrunkWithImpotence

I thought there were laws against giving the mentally retarded firearms.

There are intelligence-caps for police officers in the United States. I believe a story about it was on Fark a few weeks ago, wherein the department in question defended this as a legitimate interest, and the court assented.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:27 PM

100 Watt Walrus: gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.


While I appreciate why you dimiss the second part of my statement, your analogy given as your reasoning is not a good one. The reason I say that and the reason that changing "cops" to "blacks" doesn't work is that the police - especially since 9/11, frankly - have vastly increased not only their power but also their special protections. Black people, for example, if they kill someone, do not get to have that killing judged by their own internal review board, by their own special set of rules rather than by a court of law.
 
2013-07-26 02:30:38 PM

WickerNipple: Everyone should google street view that address just to realize what a ridiculous claim these cops are making.

Not only is the address perfectly visible, but the location of that garage means these idiots had to have been traipsing around this guy's backyard with flashlights and guns.  Who wouldn't expect an armed homeowner to respond to that in TX?


THIS

They were in his side/back yard with guns and flashlight on a dark night AND HAD NOT ANNOUNCED THEMSELVES.  Sure looks like a home invasion from the receiving end.

If announcing yourself is "too much risk" maybe you shouldn't be a cop at all.
 
2013-07-26 02:31:08 PM

miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.


FFS,  they couldn't even get on the right side of the street?  Even and Odd numbers is first grade.
 
2013-07-26 02:31:22 PM

LeroyBourne: They must just give any shlub a badge these days.


Well, not any shlub...

www.bob-owens.com
 
2013-07-26 02:31:39 PM
Man, you guys are slow today -

THIS is how you let your local doughnut munchers know you're clean -

www.firecompanies.com

hawt like a tart
 
2013-07-26 02:32:15 PM

arentol: If it was too dark to read a white street number on the curb, and a clearly visible street number on the mailbox, then how the HELL was it light enough to see he was definitely holding a gun?

Sorry you stupid cops, you can't have it both ways.



THIS

Their flashlights were not adquate to read WHITE number on a BLACK background, but they could see well enough to tell he was not only holding a gun, but aiming it.

Please let this go to jury trial.
 
2013-07-26 02:32:44 PM

QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.

I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?


Say what now?
 
2013-07-26 02:34:37 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.

Ready for a home invasion, not ready for the police.

/did they take it from his cold, dead hand?


They stood their ground?
 
2013-07-26 02:36:20 PM
Was the man barking or something?
 
2013-07-26 02:36:38 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.

I didn't say he dropped instantly, but if he moved between the time he was shot and the time he dropped, would the police not think to put that in the farking report?

Say what now?


Oops.
 
2013-07-26 02:38:46 PM

100 Watt Walrus: gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.


Agree with the creeping expectation statement. This kind of official negligent homicide seems to come with the expectation that we're supposed to give it the same lack of concern as if troops in Iraq raided the wrong house - that we're supposed to think police are soldiers at war with the enemy among us, so cut them a break.
 
2013-07-26 02:39:13 PM

vernonFL: Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??


I delivered pizza for 5 years in the 90s before any sort of newfangledly satellite magic.

# of times I delivered to the wrong address: 0
 
2013-07-26 02:39:27 PM

SpectroBoy: Maybe, just maybe, the risk doesn't justify blasting every innocent citizen that causes you a little concern.


Honestly, it's a little disingenious to say a cop's job is not inherently dangerous, more so than most other professions in America depending on where they work. That's like saying a Soldier's job is not dangerous anymore because only 5000 died this time compared with 50,000 in Vietnam.

But, outside of JPINFV's Poe, anyone using that as an excuse for what happened here today deserves a hard kick in the balls. (or taco)
 
2013-07-26 02:40:21 PM
Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.
 
2013-07-26 02:42:05 PM

SpectroBoy: orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.

And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.


DO NOT DO 3. EVAR. Cops take that to mean 'I am a 'sovereign citizen' or other such bullshiat and need to be taught my place'. Go to a public place with lots of lighting if you're worried. Hospital, grocery store, somewhere with lights and cameras.

/Rest of that is solid advice, though
//I like most cops. The ones out here got my little sister back home when she was 3 and decided to take a trip to the park. I wouldn't trust a cop I did not personally know with anything.
 
2013-07-26 02:42:18 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-26 02:43:43 PM

sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.


Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?
 
2013-07-26 02:44:01 PM

PsiChick: DO NOT DO 3. EVAR. Cops take that to mean 'I am a 'sovereign citizen' or other such bullshiat and need to be taught my place'. Go to a public place with lots of lighting if you're worried. Hospital, grocery store, somewhere with lights and cameras.


THIS.

After what happened in West Memphis in 2010, cops have stopped putting up with Sovereign Citizen crap, and acting like one is a good way to get a gun drawn on you.

If you're going to ask something like that, phrasing. "Am I under arrest, or am I behind held for some reason"?
 
2013-07-26 02:44:27 PM

Peki: People actually rely on those still?


No, the technology was never actually improved in any way, and was abandoned for sextants and star charts.
 
2013-07-26 02:44:52 PM

WickerNipple: vernonFL: Farking A, if a 18 year old pizza delivery driver can find a house, why can't the police or the bank??

I delivered pizza for 5 years in the 90s before any sort of newfangledly satellite magic.

# of times I delivered to the wrong address: 0


You were looking to make a buck, not murder somebody or their dog
 
2013-07-26 02:45:59 PM
They should probably stop worrying about disarming citizens and start disarming these farking idiot pigs instead.
 
2013-07-26 02:46:01 PM

TwowheelinTim: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

The houses aren't even on the same side of the street! WTF?

Egregious doesn't even begin to cover this kind of error.

DAMN!


but with the 'bad lighting' that last 4 looked like a 9 ..
 
2013-07-26 02:46:37 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.

Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?


FTFA - "My father never stepped outside of his garage," said Waller's son, Chris. "He was shot multiple times in the chest only a few steps away from the doorway to his kitchen."

So, are you saying the account of the son is somehow less trustworthy than the officers' who needed to cover their asses after shooting some old man in the dark?  Interesting.
 
2013-07-26 02:48:08 PM
I'm sure there is dashboard/vest cam footage that proves this old man was at the corner they claim....right?  The cams were on, right?
 
2013-07-26 02:48:52 PM

Marcintosh: Man, you guys are slow today -

THIS is how you let your local doughnut munchers know you're clean -



hawt like a tart


So if I do have a meth lab and had this painted on my garage, would I be on the hook for false advertising and a meth lab? Help. I'm bad at maths.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:06 PM

sugardave: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: sugardave: Holy fark, AssFace Nina, the son of the deceased said his dad never left the garage.

Holy fark, boogerdave, where did you find the son's eyewitness account?

FTFA - "My father never stepped outside of his garage," said Waller's son, Chris. "He was shot multiple times in the chest only a few steps away from the doorway to his kitchen."

So, are you saying the account of the son is somehow less trustworthy than the officers' who needed to cover their asses after shooting some old man in the dark?  Interesting.


I don't believe in ESP.
 
2013-07-26 02:49:23 PM

sugardave: I'm sure there is dashboard/vest cam footage that proves this old man was at the corner they claim....right?  The cams were on, right?


AFAIK, only two departments in the US are trialing vest cams for TASER international (they're still prototypes), and they're both in California.

Quite a few have gone to gun-mounted cameras like the TASER model, however.
 
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