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(Opposing Views)   Cops go to the wrong address, scare a 72-year-old man, and then shoot him dead. Their excuse? The lighting was bad and they couldn't see what was going on   (opposingviews.com) divider line 276
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14556 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jul 2013 at 1:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-26 01:57:19 PM
The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.

i32.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-26 01:57:29 PM
They were totally 404.
 
2013-07-26 01:57:44 PM
media.screened.com
 
2013-07-26 01:57:53 PM

wax_on: How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat?  Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?

/militarization of police forces is BAD.


It happens.

media.kansas.com
 
2013-07-26 01:58:00 PM
kickyourassandgetawaywithit.jpg
 
2013-07-26 01:58:14 PM

MikeBoomshadow: They were totally 404.


*snert*
 
2013-07-26 01:58:31 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The officers identified themselves and ordered Waller to drop the gun, but he pointed it at the officers, prompting Hoeppner to shoot Waller, according to the affidavit.


Well, that's one side of the story.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:37 PM

Mr. Eugenides: But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.


How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:43 PM

Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


Ya know, I'm more of the mindset that it's bad that the cops shot an innocent person more than bad that they showed up at the wrong address... I know, that kind of moral relativism is frowned upon by both Fark and the Sith.
 
2013-07-26 01:58:50 PM

vernonFL: If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.


You mean like the one which banks use as an excuse when they foreclose on the wrong house?
 
2013-07-26 01:58:52 PM

Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.


Well that would imply they knew which way was north. In their defence, directions are hard.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:08 PM

QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location


Did they?
 
2013-07-26 01:59:11 PM

kidgenius:

I don't think many people, even cops unfortunately, understand how house numbers work.


hence the saying "667. Neighbor of the Beast"
 
2013-07-26 01:59:13 PM
I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:24 PM

Enemabag Jones: WTF is wrong with this country?

/Eventually if they keep on killing middle class white people they will have to account for their actions.


Not enough assholes are getting hung.  If all of the pigs involved were hung as well as the chief of police and the mayor the next guys will make damned sure it won't happen again.
 
2013-07-26 01:59:34 PM
404 and 409 aren't even on the same side of the street.  "Ok, let's see...that's 406 (or 402, depending on the direction), so the next one must be 409 but I can't tell since it's dark."  farking stupid excuse.
 
2013-07-26 02:00:43 PM

hardinparamedic: Mr. Eugenides: But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.

How big was this place? Most of the agencies I know of have GIS systems in car that can give everything down to street level satellite imagery of the location they are dispatched to. It even flags the actual house, not the street location of the address.

It's really useful in that it can give us past information on the household. Always nice to know if we're walking in on a paranoid schizophrenic who has a history of being violent with us.

There is no excuse for this. There is no justification. This was an insane mistake. And the fact that they've been blatantly caught in one lie automatically strips ANY credibility they had.


Can you imagine what kind of clusterfark this would be in an active shooter emergency, cops (and other first responders) showing up with their backs to the shooter while they stare at the wrong address?
 
2013-07-26 02:00:53 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-26 02:01:21 PM
FTA:

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.



Police lying to cover their asses!?!?!?

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

I am sure this will be investigated and they will be punished with paid vacation.
 
2013-07-26 02:01:26 PM
Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.
 
2013-07-26 02:02:20 PM

Wall_of_Doodoo: BizarreMan: Note to self.

Pick up some glow in the dark paint and write my street and number on the front, back and sides of my house.

Yeah, I don't think cops that think 'bad lighting' is a great excuse for murdering a 73 year old property owner are going to be convinced they are at the wrong address by something like a clearly visible glowing house number. Hell, in their minds that's just the kind of ruse a guy who needs a shootin would pull to throw them of his trail.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-26 02:02:49 PM
Was his name "Buttle"?

/and you know that's not obscure
 
2013-07-26 02:03:08 PM

miss diminutive: Mr. Eugenides: miss diminutive: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

In their defence, math is hard.

But in most places 409 would be on the other side of the street from 404.  You would think that the police would know better than to go to the address on the south side of the road when it should be on the north side.

Well that would imply they knew which way was north. In their defence, directions are hard.


Then again, maybe it was one of those fours that look like nines and in the dark they couldn't tell the difference. But they should still have taken a look at the other house numbers to gauge which side of the street was even and odd.
 
2013-07-26 02:03:15 PM

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.


Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.
 
2013-07-26 02:03:46 PM

firefly212: Can you imagine what kind of clusterfark this would be in an active shooter emergency, cops (and other first responders) showing up with their backs to the shooter while they stare at the wrong address?


Well, yeah, because it actually happened. In 2002, a Memphis Firefighter completely flipped his lid because he thought his wife was sleeping with another firefighter, so he shot her her, called in a house fire at the house across the street, and waited in his attic with a hunting rifle through the vent slats. He got two deputies, then set his house on fire to lure the engine company in before killing the Lieutenant in the pumper as he was getting out.

The Lieutenant was his target. Problem was, his intended target had called in that day, and his backup had childcare issues. So it was another person, totally unrelated, riding out of rank.
 
2013-07-26 02:04:23 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?


Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.
 
2013-07-26 02:04:45 PM

orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.


What if he was wearing a hoodie?
 
2013-07-26 02:06:40 PM

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now, hang on here. I'm pretty Pro-LE, but there's really no excuse here. Apparently, this happened in a major city which, as one FARKer has put it, has the addresses clearly marked. I'm also willing to bet they have Automated Location Dispatching and in-car GIS systems which should have showed them.

But I agree. This was manslaughter and negligent homicide.

Ontos: Clearly, LEO's are the only people trained well enough to be in possession of firearms.


Given the amount of LaMOE ITG Circle-Jerk types that post "in defense" of private firearm ownership on FARK and other websites (Dear God, Free Republic), I'd still trust a cop more than half these idiots on here.
 
2013-07-26 02:07:16 PM
Avoid police at all costs. They are not highly trained intelligent people. They are criminals and thugs on the right side of the law. Even if you are in the right, you are in the wrong when the police are involved.
 
2013-07-26 02:07:47 PM
Reminds me of a guy from Texas that was telling me about his hunting trip:

"Didn't see anything, but we got off a few brush shots."

"What's a brush shot?"

"You know, when you hear something in the brush, and shoot at it."
 
2013-07-26 02:08:27 PM
Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?
 
2013-07-26 02:08:42 PM

QueenMamaBee: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?

Yup

To make matters more complicated, the police might very well have lied in their report. The police claim that they saw a man "armed with a handgun standing near the corner of the home." They ordered him to drop the gun, and when he pointed the gun at them, the police opened fire.

And yet, Waller died inside of his garage, leaving residents of the community to wonder why there is such a blatant discrepancy between the facts and the report.


Yes, cuz everyone who gets shots instantly drops right where they're standing.
 
2013-07-26 02:09:39 PM

orclover: Just a daily reminder everyone!  Cops will kill you and yer entire family and suffer no consequences.  And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Oh just be innocent and cooperate?  Sorry, yer dead anyways, thanks for playing.


And thus:

1) Never talk to them unless you have no choice. (like if your insurance company won't pay without a police report.)

2) Never consent to anything

3) Always ask if you are free to go

4) Never believe a farking word they say when they are trying to get you to do or say something.


It's so sad. I am old enough to remember when there was trouble I was glad to see a cop. Good times.
 
2013-07-26 02:10:00 PM

FormlessOne: Sweet Jesus, how bad do you have to suck at law enforcement, at being ethical, at being human, to fail that checklist?


They're cops.  That means they're neither ethical nor human.
 
2013-07-26 02:11:00 PM
404 Havenwood Lane

Intelligence not Found
 
2013-07-26 02:11:09 PM
At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.
 
2013-07-26 02:11:19 PM

gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.


What's incorrect about the bolded sentiment. I completely owe my life to the fact that they've farked up elsewhere, rather than at my place.

/Getting to be like playing Russian Roulette
 
2013-07-26 02:11:47 PM

Wangiss: vernonFL: Police were dispatched to 409 Havenwood Lane on May 28 because of a reported burglary. The problem was that they went to 404 Havenwood Lane instead of their intended destination.

If only there was some sort of global system that could be used to make sure you were at the correct address.

Maybe a system of satellites and receiving devices that map and plot your position across the globe?

No, you'd have to have some way to generate electricity in your car.  Cars are powered by burning light oils, not by electricity.


Uhh...  Hello... are you from the past?  We have these alternator things now...
 
2013-07-26 02:12:08 PM

Chewb1zz: Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

Now I know this since I live in Fort Worth, but our addresses are listed rather clearly on the curb, not on the house itself, and in this person's case on the mailbox as well. The curb marking is visible at night even being light reflective lettering on a black background. The poor lighting is a BS excuse.


Just pulled up the streetview....

White letters on the black background on the curb. Big mailbox with numbering facing the street. And pretty farking close to a full moon that night. Yeah...no excuse at all.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=404+havenwood+lane%2C+fort+wor t h&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-97.230232!3d32.772463!2m2!1f252.81!2f68.14!4f75 !2m4!1e1!2m2!1sYMdo6QDJa7FMtqdmn6MLbg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d33359!2d- 81.4534189!3d41.517123!3m2!1i1920!2i1072!4f13.1&fid=5
 
2013-07-26 02:12:19 PM
Maybe the cops thought he was a dog. They like killing dogs.
 
2013-07-26 02:12:28 PM
Going to the wrong house is a mistake, and a honest one most times.
Blasting the first person you see because your scared... That's something else.

That's a "who made these chickenshiats cops?!" levels of incompetence.

/and they lied, that's just icing on the cake.
/it should be manslaughter for the lot of them.
 
2013-07-26 02:12:51 PM

thetubameister: Jesus Christ... when will this shiat STOP?!?!?

When do we - as a nation - stop allowing this?!?  When do they stop getting away with murder?


When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.

Cops have more power than a Doctor to ruin someone's life, and they're overseen far less.

kortex: They are not highly trained intelligent people.


Depending on where you're at, this is not true. Also depending on whether you're dealing with someone who's an investigator, or a beat cop.

kortex: Even if you are in the right, you are in the wrong when the police are involved.


This is coming from someone who deals with cops every day. Even if they are your friends off the job, do not involve them on the job unless you NEED to - i.e. your life is in danger, or you have to file a report for some reason. Do not do anything you are not legally required to do. Do not offer information unless you are sure you will not incriminate yourself, or you speak with a lawyer first.

If, for some reason, you are looked at as a suspect in something, say NOTHING. The police are legally allowed to mislead you to get information or a confession. They will make promises, and state there is nothing they can do to help you if you do not do X or Y. Do not fall for it. Shut up, give nothing but your name and identification, and ask for a lawyer. Do not resist, be cooperative. Do not consent to anything.
 
2013-07-26 02:13:02 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: QueenMamaBee: Except they lied about his location

Did they?


According to the medical examiner in May, Waller's place of death was in his garage.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fort-Worth-Police-Affidavit-Cites-L ig hting-in-Shooting-at-Wrong-House-216851981.html
 
2013-07-26 02:13:18 PM

ChipNASA: This wouldn't have happened it he was black......


Then the cops REALLY would have played up the whole "it was dark, HE was dark,  we just
plumb couldn't see him!"excuse.

Most of the time I have a great deal of respect for law enforcement, but they tend tofall into
one of three categories:

a. officers who take 'to protect and serve' to heart and who willingly jump into the fray
and put their lives on then line to protect the public.

b. officers who are just doing their job. They won't risk their lives unless they absolutely
have to but are generally pretty decent folks.

c. officers who use their badge as both a bludgeon and a shield. These are the people
who feel like their position gives them license to do whatever the fark they want without
recourse.

Sadly, we hear FAR more about Type C cops than A or B....
 
2013-07-26 02:13:27 PM

wax_on: How often do we hear about a SWAT team breaking in to a house and actually shooting someone who is a threat?  Does that happen at all or is it always innocent people?

/militarization of police forces is BAD.


It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that swat teams are at about a 50/50 ratio....
 
2013-07-26 02:13:44 PM

JPINFV: At least the officers went home at the end of their shift. That's the only thing that matters, after all. You know, since they put their lives on the line every day to protect you. So if it comes between them having the possibility of being injured or killing a civilian, killing the civilian isn't wrong. After all, if the sheep don't like how the sheepdog is protecting them from the wolf, it's simple enough to go through the academy and strap on a vest. Until you know what they go through everyday, you can't begin to judge any action in the name of officer safety.


Isn't it nice to know that you, as a Doctor, have more oversight than a cop does, and he can kill someone much easier than you can usually?
 
2013-07-26 02:14:52 PM
hardinparamedic

When we start licensing cops on a state/federal level, have independent oversight for cops separate from police departments, and we start providing in depth mental and psychiatric screening and support for people from the first day.

I almost never agree with you, but this is right on.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:46 PM

Mock26: In defense of the cops, it can be very difficult to see the number on a house when the lighting is crappy or nonexistent.  Getting the wrong house because of bad lighting is understandable.

In defense of intelligence, though, they were on the wrong farking side of the street! Nearly every place I have ever been in this country has odd numbers on one side of the street and even on the other.  I imagine that the cops were looking the numbers as they drove by, and if they saw the numbers were 400 - 402 - 404 or 412 - 410 - 408 then why did they not turn their farking heads and start looking at the odd numbered houses?!?!?!?!?!?

So yeah, their stupidity completely cancels out any excuse for bad lighting and getting the wrong house.  This should be manslaughter charges for the shooter(s) and the firing of everyone else involved on the response.


My old house had an odd address on the even numbered side of the street leading to many undelivered packages.  We solved the problem by painting our address in giant numbers on our fence and later by moving.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:50 PM

gshepnyc: I'm so sick of the creeping expectation that we all owe our lives to cops' margin of error, that our deaths or the deaths of our family and pets, is an acceptable price to pay so that cops can do their jobs and have some degree of safety. And it only gets worse as the militarization of police continues and as SWAT teams and similar overpowering forces become a more and more common response to lesser and lesser events.


THIS.

This is why I simply don't give a rat's ass when we have some big, maudlin pity-parade of cops in their dress blues all lining up for one of their own wounded or killed on duty. The farker probably had it coming anyway.

Not this. Change "cops" to "blacks" and you'll see how stupid this part sounds.
 
2013-07-26 02:15:54 PM

Maul555: It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that swat teams are at about a 50/50 ratio....


Not really. Actual SWAT teams are smaller than people think.

What has happened, especially around Warrant/Fugitive Apprehension teams and Narcotics Squads, is that they have become tactical in nature due to the risk involved in these. It's not unusual to see a warrant served - especially in a known drug or gang area - by people dressed out in tactical gear and using heavy firepower.

You're only - usually - going to see a true SWAT operator in a situation such as an active shooter, barricade, hostage, or unusual situation.
 
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