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(NBC News)   Tulsa: Look, we know we've named pretty much every landmark in town after a KKK leader who helped incite the 1921 race riots that killed over 300 people. But, that's ancient history, man. Who cares if we name the main road after him, too?   (usnews.nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, rage, KKK, Tulsa, race riots, Will Rogers, Indian Land, literary magazine, city fathers  
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7523 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2013 at 10:53 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



69 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-25 10:05:00 AM  
Well those comments certainly were distasteful.
 
2013-07-25 10:07:09 AM  
the city's population of 400,000.

I didn't know Tulsa was that big.
 
2013-07-25 10:14:10 AM  
The council has asked business owners in the new Brady Arts District about the name, which is widely used in promotional marketing. The owners opposed any name change, concluding that it's better to be reminded of the city's checkered past in order to create a better world.

Well shiat, if you put it like that, welcome to the new Adolf Hitler barbecue grill store.
 
2013-07-25 10:34:40 AM  

show me: The council has asked business owners in the new Brady Arts District about the name, which is widely used in promotional marketing. The owners opposed any name change, concluding that it's better to be reminded of the city's checkered past in order to create a better world.

Well shiat, if you put it like that, welcome to the new Adolf Hitler barbecue grill store.


To be fair there's an argument to be made that we shouldn't sweep unpleasant history under the rug.  But that does sound a bit silly in this case.

My alma mater has this debate all the time.  A dorm is named after out 8th president who is quoted on a display on Ellis Island, saying:

"The danger the 'melting pot' brings to the nation is the breeding out of the higher divisions of the white race...."

They've been arguing about renaming that dorm for decades.
 
2013-07-25 10:48:19 AM  

Diogenes: show me: The council has asked business owners in the new Brady Arts District about the name, which is widely used in promotional marketing. The owners opposed any name change, concluding that it's better to be reminded of the city's checkered past in order to create a better world.

Well shiat, if you put it like that, welcome to the new Adolf Hitler barbecue grill store.

To be fair there's an argument to be made that we shouldn't sweep unpleasant history under the rug.  But that does sound a bit silly in this case.

My alma mater has this debate all the time.  A dorm is named after out 8th president who is quoted on a display on Ellis Island, saying:

"The danger the 'melting pot' brings to the nation is the breeding out of the higher divisions of the white race...."

They've been arguing about renaming that dorm for decades.


Hey listen, listen, I got a real funny joke that I bet you never heard before. "So what did you major in, brushing your teeth?" Hahahahahaha!!!!

/Didn't know who the 8th president was. I was guessing Jackson. Kind of weird for a New Yorker to say that, but he was Jackson's VP I guess.
 
2013-07-25 10:51:39 AM  

show me: Hey listen, listen, I got a real funny joke that I bet you never heard before. "So what did you major in, brushing your teeth?" Hahahahahaha!!!!


The most unique dig I ever got was, "What's your degree going to be?  An MFP?"

But that's so dated at this point no one even gets that.
 
2013-07-25 10:55:45 AM  
So basically, Tulsa has produced nobody worth naming anything after since 1921.
 
2013-07-25 11:04:31 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: So basically, Tulsa has produced nobody worth naming anything after since 1921.


FTFY
 
2013-07-25 11:04:33 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: So basically, Tulsa has produced nobody worth naming anything after since 1921.


JJ Cale?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-25 11:06:53 AM  
they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.
 
2013-07-25 11:12:01 AM  

PrYgMMa: they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.


Wayne Brady. Now everyone's happy.
 
2013-07-25 11:14:46 AM  

Diogenes: show me: Hey listen, listen, I got a real funny joke that I bet you never heard before. "So what did you major in, brushing your teeth?" Hahahahahaha!!!!

The most unique dig I ever got was, "What's your degree going to be?  An MFP?"

But that's so dated at this point no one even gets that.


"New Colgate fluoride MFP, helps prevent a cavity, and it tastes great naturally!" I can still even remember the tune to the jingle.

/old
 
2013-07-25 11:15:58 AM  

PrYgMMa: they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.


Same thing in Seattle with King county, named after Rufus King, plantation owner and VP of the US in 1852 was re- named (?) after Martin Luther King Jr.

I like in the article there's a complaint that changing the Brady Arts District name will cause confusion. Yeah for complete imbeciles.
 
2013-07-25 11:16:19 AM  
Tulsa asluT
 
2013-07-25 11:16:36 AM  
Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage
 
2013-07-25 11:20:36 AM  
standwitharizona.com
 
2013-07-25 11:23:20 AM  
Sheesh, here in King County, WA, we changed who the county was named for without changing the actual name.

<from Wikipedia>
The county was named after William Rufus King, who was Vice-President when the Washington Territory was created. In 1986 a motion was introduced by Ron Sims (a black Democrat from Seattle), and Bruce Laing (a white Republican from suburban Renton) to change the namesake to Martin Luther King, Jr.
</Wikipedia>
 
2013-07-25 11:32:46 AM  
Is it just me, or is racial tension here getting worse? It seems like the political red v blue divide is seeping into the racial black and white divide.

I wish we would focus on our similarities rather than our differences - because a country divided against itself will not stand.

/and change the stupid name. You can't put the past away when it keeps getting dragged into the present.
 
2013-07-25 11:33:13 AM  
Stay classy, Tulsa.

The amusing thing is, people from Tulsa (some of them, anyway) consider themselves more sophisticated and worldly than the white trash down in OKC (the capital). They seem to think this matters to anybody. It doesn't. Tulsa is still in Oklahoma. With all that that implies.
 
2013-07-25 11:33:27 AM  

Diogenes: show me: Hey listen, listen, I got a real funny joke that I bet you never heard before. "So what did you major in, brushing your teeth?" Hahahahahaha!!!!

The most unique dig I ever got was, "What's your degree going to be?  An MFP?"

But that's so dated at this point no one even gets that.


Oh, dammit. You just tickled some synapse from 1985.

"Wake up all you sleepy heads, Colgate gets you out of bed. Now there's the Colgate pump, we've got the Colgate pump." What makes it good is MFP!
 
2013-07-25 11:35:55 AM  
He opened a general store, followed by a hotel - the first with baths.

Tulsa:  Bathing since 1890.
 
2013-07-25 11:41:17 AM  
Today the district has been reborn. It has a new ballpark, boutiques, a cigar bar, trendy restaurants and a museum and park dedicated to Oklahoma's Dust Bowl balladeer, Woody Guthrie. The elegant Brady Theater is one of the jewels, opened by Brady in 1914 as the biggest arena between Kansas City and Houston.

That's the answer right there. Rename it the Guthrie Theater. That should avoid confusion.
 
2013-07-25 11:46:22 AM  

jtown: He opened a general store, followed by a hotel - the first with baths.

Tulsa:   Bathing Making visitors feel like they need a bath since 1890.


FTFY
 
2013-07-25 11:48:14 AM  

PrYgMMa: they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-25 11:52:21 AM  
Race this .. Race that.
Terrorists are under your bed.
Marijuana is bad.
            vs.
TSA
IRS
NSA

OH LOOK!! A ROYAL BABY!!!
 
2013-07-25 12:00:03 PM  
Well - Tulsa does seem to have an MLK Blvd, so it's all good.  I can feel the diversity
 
2013-07-25 12:01:11 PM  
Brady Street

That reminds me, Milwaukee's Brady Street Festival is this weekend. I've never been to one before ... hopefully the music won't be horrible and it won't be too frat-douchey.

But there's a craft beer tent *and* an artisanal cheese tent, so it can't be that bad.
 
2013-07-25 12:08:34 PM  

Five Minute Standup: PrYgMMa: they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.

Wayne Brady. Now everyone's happy.


*high five*
 
2013-07-25 12:10:40 PM  
Time for Operation white flight. Whites move out of the city, let the city fall into Bankruptcy and disrepair. After the people who caused it move to a new city the whites simply move back in, rebuild, and run it accordingly. I've actually seen this happen a few times in my lifetime.
 
2013-07-25 12:10:51 PM  
 
2013-07-25 12:11:32 PM  
I think the Tulsa Race Riots are badly misnamed in terms of modern word usage.
They were mob actions of the dominant ethnicity (white) against a minority to "keep them in their place" or drive them out and were more akin to pogroms or ethnic cleaning. In the US there were many instances of driving blacks out to create whites only towns or Sundown Towns. I guess when blacks fight back it does technically become a riot.

The more modern notion of race riot is when a minority is outraged at some perceived injustice and starts rioting and the government (not majority mobs) acts against the rioters. Most all of the post 1940 "race riots" in the US were of this nature.

They were more akin to a Pogrom or e
 
2013-07-25 12:27:13 PM  
That's ok we have several parks and libraries named after nazi war criminals
 
2013-07-25 12:28:29 PM  
Sorry subby.  No proof that Brady helped incite the 1921 race riot.  Only speculation.
 
2013-07-25 12:31:58 PM  
I propose a compromise. Let them keep their current Brady bunch of names, but rename the busiest road in the city Eldridge Cleaver Street.
 
2013-07-25 12:36:24 PM  

vbob: Race this .. Race that.
Terrorists are under your bed.
Marijuana is bad.
            vs.
TSA
IRS
NSA

OH LOOK!! A ROYAL BABY!!!


Did you mean to leave off Benghazi?

I'm not sure whether to read this as a troll or not, so that clarification will help me make up my mind.
 
2013-07-25 12:36:28 PM  
Wow, can't believe they want to change it to Zimmerman st..
 
2013-07-25 12:37:56 PM  
"Here's the story ..."
 
2013-07-25 12:54:48 PM  
It was one hell of a cruel riot. An absolute new low for America. Indiscriminate killing by whites.

chroniclingamerica.loc.gov
 
2013-07-25 12:56:14 PM  

maxx2112: Problem?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1063]

/  List of places named after Robert Byrd


Yeah, but Byrd spent the rest of his life apologizing for being in the KKK and actually did a lot for black people to make up for it.

Brady, on the other hand, stayed in it his entire life and was never sorry as far as we know.
 
2013-07-25 01:05:05 PM  

Diogenes: show me: The council has asked business owners in the new Brady Arts District about the name, which is widely used in promotional marketing. The owners opposed any name change, concluding that it's better to be reminded of the city's checkered past in order to create a better world.

Well shiat, if you put it like that, welcome to the new Adolf Hitler barbecue grill store.

To be fair there's an argument to be made that we shouldn't sweep unpleasant history under the rug.  But that does sound a bit silly in this case.

My alma mater has this debate all the time.  A dorm is named after out 8th president who is quoted on a display on Ellis Island, saying:

"The danger the 'melting pot' brings to the nation is the breeding out of the higher divisions of the white race...."

They've been arguing about renaming that dorm for decades.


There is a difference between "remembering and acknowledging" and "honouring". Naming a major road after a person is pretty heavily into the latter category.
 
2013-07-25 01:10:22 PM  
UHF was filmed there, so they should name a street after Michael Richards. That should fix all the racism allegations.
 
2013-07-25 01:10:32 PM  

HairBolus: I think the Tulsa Race Riots are badly misnamed in terms of modern word usage.
They were mob actions of the dominant ethnicity (white) against a minority to "keep them in their place" or drive them out and were more akin to pogroms or ethnic cleaning. In the US there were many instances of driving blacks out to create whites only towns or Sundown Towns. I guess when blacks fight back it does technically become a riot.

The more modern notion of race riot is when a minority is outraged at some perceived injustice and starts rioting and the government (not majority mobs) acts against the rioters. Most all of the post 1940 "race riots" in the US were of this nature.

They were more akin to a Pogrom or e


So you're saying it's not a riot when white people attack black people, it's only a riot when black people attempt to defend themselves from the white people that are attacking them.
 
2013-07-25 01:12:42 PM  

bhcompy: Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage


That's a good point. Why can't we get that evil bastard off our cash?  Maybe replace him with Roosevelt (either one) or Adams?
 
2013-07-25 01:24:49 PM  

lelio: I like in the article there's a complaint that changing the Brady Arts District name will cause confusion. Yeah for complete imbeciles.


This. A local would have to be completely out to lunch to miss them changing the name, and a non-local wouldn't even know there was even a name change unless they used an outdated website or got directions from a local who mistakenly called it the old name.

/Back in NC, we swapped the names of Highway 136 and Highway 3, and we were promised mass confusion, dogs and cats living together
//Never heard about a single instance of confusion, and that was back in the days of paper maps, which were only updated once a year
///Yes, it was done for Dale Earnhardt
 
2013-07-25 01:28:24 PM  

Too_many_Brians: bhcompy: Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage

That's a good point. Why can't we get that evil bastard off our cash?  Maybe replace him with Roosevelt (either one) or Adams?


I guess you forgot there were also two President Adams, father and son like the Bush's.
 
2013-07-25 01:30:39 PM  

Fireproof: maxx2112: Problem?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1063]

/  List of places named after Robert Byrd

Yeah, but Byrd spent the rest of his life apologizing for being in the KKK and actually did a lot for black people to make up for it.

Brady, on the other hand, stayed in it his entire life and was never sorry as far as we know.


It always cracks me up when the bring up Byrd. He was lauded for his work by the NAACP and Obama worshiped him when he was in the Senate. The guy deserves to be honored. 

Brady was an unrepentant scumbag until his last breath. 300 black citizens of one of the most vibrant communities in the country were murdered by vicious racist mobs. The participants and instigators deserve infamy not to have streets named after them.
 
2013-07-25 01:32:41 PM  
There were two Johnsons that succeeded assassinated presidents, and there were two Roosevelts. There would have been two Kennedys, but the CIA took care of that for us.
 
2013-07-25 01:35:40 PM  

Matthew Keene: There were two Johnsons that succeeded assassinated presidents, and there were two Roosevelts. There would have been two Kennedys, but the CIA took care of that for us.


There were also two Adams and Two Bushs, both fathers and sons.
 
2013-07-25 01:39:02 PM  

Matthew Keene: There were two Johnsons that succeeded assassinated presidents, and there were two Roosevelts. There would have been two Kennedys, but the CIA took care of that for us.


Thank God
 
2013-07-25 01:40:19 PM  

Matthew Keene: There were two Johnsons that succeeded assassinated presidents, and there were two Roosevelts. There would have been two Kennedys, but the CIA Chappaquiddick took care of that for us.


FTFY
 
2013-07-25 01:55:14 PM  

Too_many_Brians: bhcompy: Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage

That's a good point. Why can't we get that evil bastard off our cash?  Maybe replace him with Roosevelt (either one) or Adams?


Sherman.
 
2013-07-25 01:57:23 PM  

Latinwolf: Too_many_Brians: bhcompy: Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage

That's a good point. Why can't we get that evil bastard off our cash?  Maybe replace him with Roosevelt (either one) or Adams?

I guess you forgot there were also two President Adams, father and son like the Bush's.


Nope, didn't forget, just forgot how to do the adamses. and that just looks strange.
 
2013-07-25 02:03:22 PM  

ginandbacon: It always cracks me up when the bring up Byrd. He was lauded for his work by the NAACP and Obama worshiped him when he was in the Senate. The guy deserves to be honored.


So grand wizards of the kkk amuse you? Nice

/Its ok when our team does it, this is how it works
 
2013-07-25 02:05:31 PM  

Fireproof: maxx2112: Problem?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1063]

/  List of places named after Robert Byrd

Yeah, but Byrd spent the rest of his life apologizing for being in the KKK and actually did a lot for black people to make up for it.

Brady, on the other hand, stayed in it his entire life and was never sorry as far as we know.


Brady shot himself in the head in 1925. The Brady Theater and the Brady Mansion are both on the National Register of Historic Places.

http://thislandpress.com/04/18/2012/tate-brady-battle-greenwood/?read = complete#f1">

Brady's involvement in the race riot itself states he was on guard duty, the bigger issue is his involvement in the Tulsa Outrage where Tulsa Police actually handed 17 union workers over to a KKK group headed by Brady who then whipped, tarred, and feathered them and Brady was reportedly the ring leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Outrage

In Tulsa, the second block north street is named after Brady which has the Brady Theater and the Brady District, which is about 8 bars, and Tulsa's biggest gay club, just south of the Cain's Ballroom.
 
2013-07-25 02:47:39 PM  

dabbletech: Sorry subby.  No proof that Brady helped incite the 1921 race riot.  Only speculation.


He was probably one of those gentle and non-confrontational KKK members that were so prevalent in 1921 Oklahoma.
 
2013-07-25 02:50:39 PM  

thehobbes: Fireproof: maxx2112: Problem?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1063]

/  List of places named after Robert Byrd

Yeah, but Byrd spent the rest of his life apologizing for being in the KKK and actually did a lot for black people to make up for it.

Brady, on the other hand, stayed in it his entire life and was never sorry as far as we know.

Brady shot himself in the head in 1925. The Brady Theater and the Brady Mansion are both on the National Register of Historic Places.

http://thislandpress.com/04/18/2012/tate-brady-battle-greenwood/?read = complete#f1">

Brady's involvement in the race riot itself states he was on guard duty, the bigger issue is his involvement in the Tulsa Outrage where Tulsa Police actually handed 17 union workers over to a KKK group headed by Brady who then whipped, tarred, and feathered them and Brady was reportedly the ring leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Outrage

In Tulsa, the second block north street is named after Brady which has the Brady Theater and the Brady District, which is about 8 bars, and Tulsa's biggest gay club, just south of the Cain's Ballroom.


In related news, there is more than one gay club in the Oklahoma city of Tulsa, and you just happen to know where the biggest one is.

/nttawwt
 
2013-07-25 03:18:23 PM  

Gonz: Too_many_Brians: bhcompy: Andrew Jackson is on our national currency. I think they can manage

That's a good point. Why can't we get that evil bastard off our cash?  Maybe replace him with Roosevelt (either one) or Adams?

Sherman.



Salmon P. Chase. Seriously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_P._Chase
 
2013-07-25 03:26:44 PM  
It's not racism - it's culture.
 
2013-07-25 03:28:25 PM  

PrYgMMa: they could always just do what St. Bernard Parish in Louisiana did: Re-dedicate it to some some other guy with the same last name... that way everyone is both happy and disgruntled.


My vote's for Mathew Brady (the photographer, just to be clear because according to Wikipedia there's a vile bushranger named Matthew Brady; he'd be just as bad.)

Page for the preferred Mathew Brady:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathew_Brady
 
2013-07-25 03:48:51 PM  
thehobbes:

In Tulsa, the second block north street is named after Brady which has the Brady Theater and the Brady District, which is about 8 bars, and Tulsa's biggest gay club, just south of the Cain's Ballroom.

And Oklahoma Joe's ain't half bad right next door
 
2013-07-25 04:00:39 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: So basically, Tulsa has produced nobody worth naming anything after since 1921.



I beg your pardon...

userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-07-25 05:22:43 PM  
/Be white
//Don't be non-white
 
2013-07-25 05:50:05 PM  
I started laughing when I saw this on the front page of MSNBC today.  This crackpot has been biatching about this for quite awhile.  I think it's depressing that he's actually got a councilman listening to him now.

Are we really gonna go through the country and rename everything that was originally named after an alleged racist?  Then are we gonna move on to sexist and change the name of everything named after an alleged sexist (a.k.a any man born before 1940)?  Then maybe alleged homophobes?  Then people who didn't have enough education because they set bad examples by not staying in school?  But, let's be sure to wait 80 years after they've died to bring it up.  Makes it easier to "prove" when they can't say anything in their defense.

This PC crap has to stop somewhere and Tulsa is as good a place as any to bring us all back to reality.  I've got a great idea, if you don't like the name...stay out of the district and the theater.  Hell, for that matter, stay out of Tulsa.  They'll never miss you, I promise.

HotWingConspiracy: So basically, Tulsa has produced nobody worth naming anything after since 1921.


So sad you think this way.

Plenty of names to change to  but, no need to do so.
 
2013-07-25 06:20:57 PM  

Release the Hounds: I've got a great idea, if you don't like the name...stay out of the district and the theater. Hell, for that matter, stay out of Tulsa. They'll never miss you, I promise.


Yeah. That was the whole point of the Tulsa Pogroms. If blacks didn't like the attitudes and didn't want their houses burned down then they should have stayed out of Tulsa. I don't think any who were killed or driven out in 1921 were missed by the whites then is it would racist to miss them now.
 
2013-07-25 07:01:42 PM  
of course they discuss this the day 1/2 the city doesn't have power... oy. politics.
 
2013-07-25 09:06:55 PM  
You know, the US might not have problems with black poverty if there had not been people like this killing black people and destroying businesses for 100 years after slavery ended...

Also, funny thing right at the beginning of the article but, Indian land? Sounds like a lot of people got screwed in Tulsa. History of the US, I know.
 
2013-07-25 11:40:24 PM  

KJUW89: Sheesh, here in King County, WA, we changed who the county was named for without changing the actual name.

<from Wikipedia>
The county was named after William Rufus King, who was Vice-President when the Washington Territory was created. In 1986 a motion was introduced by Ron Sims (a black Democrat from Seattle), and Bruce Laing (a white Republican from suburban Renton) to change the namesake to Martin Luther King, Jr.
</Wikipedia>


Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd. runs through a crappy part of town, just as it did when it was called Empire Way.
 
2013-07-26 01:56:47 AM  
About the GAP band- it stands for Greenwood Archer Pine. All city streets in North Tulsa. And yes in the buckle of the bible belt there is a strong gay community. Hi-lo in okc, majestic, renegades, ybr, maverick etc in Tulsa. Not gay (NTTAWWT), married hetero, medic and I have to go in and take care of the glitter overdoses, etc. Here they renamed Cincinnati st, a major N/S street, to MLK. Before that the main N/S Streets were named after cities in alpabetical order, and you could tell location based on if that city was east or west of Tulsa. Hence Cincinnati is East of Main and Cheyenne is west.TMYK.
 
2013-07-26 05:49:46 AM  

JohnCarter: Well - Tulsa does seem to have an MLK Blvd, so it's all good.  I can feel the diversity


MLK Blvd is in the Brady District, beginning at Archer, northward past Brady Street to 65th St. North.

/in Tulsa
//literally three blocks from Brady Street right now
 
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