Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(American Thinker)   The reason businesses left Detroit: a dislike for providing health care for workers injured on the job and the soaring costs of blatant racism   (americanthinker.com ) divider line 127
    More: Interesting, Detroit, health cares, ageism, financial reports, workers  
•       •       •

2280 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jul 2013 at 9:17 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-25 09:22:44 AM  
I made it all the way down to this paragraph before the feeling of "What the God Damn fark is this guy talking about?" became too intense to endure any longer..

The final nail in the coffin came from the Environmental Protection Agency.  It happened sometime in the late 1980's.  This was when by EPA decree, almost everyone associated with manufacturing in the City of Detroit, became a criminal.  People who had worked honestly for years to pay for their building and property woke up one morning to find that because of the EPA, their property was worthless, or worse.  Is it any wonder there are so many abandoned factories?
 
2013-07-25 09:23:41 AM  
Why is this article written in bold text?

He blames healthcare, insurance and the EPA.  Looks like he'shiat all the talking points of the right.
 
2013-07-25 09:24:02 AM  
The fact that auto companies thought there would always be a market for shiatty inferior products didn't help either,
 
2013-07-25 09:24:38 AM  

stuhayes2010: Why is this article written in bold text?

He blames healthcare, insurance and the EPA.  Looks like he'shiat all the talking points of the right.


Looks like he hit (more coffee for me)
 
2013-07-25 09:26:05 AM  

stuhayes2010: stuhayes2010: Why is this article written in bold text?

He blames healthcare, insurance and the EPA.  Looks like he'shiat all the talking points of the right.

Looks like he hit (more coffee for me)


No, your first version was the more accurate one.
 
2013-07-25 09:26:05 AM  
I actually read the whole thing! At the end I think he realized he had been complaining about the actions for small/local government the whole time and panicked so closed with that the EPA was the final straw even though he doesn't explain how.
 
2013-07-25 09:26:53 AM  
Government and black people killed manufacturing in Detroit. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you could pay a Chinaman 50 cents a day to do the same labor in sweatshop conditions.
 
2013-07-25 09:28:23 AM  
He's plagiarizing his wife's divorce petition and doing a hell of a job!

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-07-25 09:28:30 AM  
I think I have read this article before. Tyler the Jorb Creator here blames the big bad government and then breathlessly blames all the poor, stupid people he had to hire as well. Throws in the EPA for good measure too. Take away from the article? There were three cases of wrongful dismissal brought against him, and he was found guilty of two.
 
2013-07-25 09:28:42 AM  
"Chinaman"?

What are you, 80 years old?
 
2013-07-25 09:28:54 AM  
If you have a manufacturing job in a heavy industrial area, hiring people too uneducated to even fill out a job application...
-Yes, they're going to get injured on the job, and yes, you're going to have to pay workman's comp.
-Yes, If you fire their asses for anything other than misconduct, you have to contribute to their employment insurance claims.
-Yes, if your business sits on land completely tainted by industrial chemicals, the EPA is going to declare it, and your land will become worthless.  No farking shiat sherlock.

The first indication that he sucked as a business man: Only what, 1 out of 12 hires were any good at their jobs according to him?  This means he either sucked at interviewing, or the job sucked so hard that only the truly desperate would want to work for him.
 
2013-07-25 09:29:16 AM  
the business owner employed "around 20?"   you couldn't remember or give an exact number?  maybe having apparent trouble counting into the double digit range was one of the reasons your business failed?
 
2013-07-25 09:29:20 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: I made it all the way down to this paragraph before the feeling of "What the God Damn fark is this guy talking about?" became too intense to endure any longer..

The final nail in the coffin came from the Environmental Protection Agency.  It happened sometime in the late 1980's.  This was when by EPA decree, almost everyone associated with manufacturing in the City of Detroit, became a criminal.  People who had worked honestly for years to pay for their building and property woke up one morning to find that because of the EPA, their property was worthless, or worse.  Is it any wonder there are so many abandoned factories?


I'm guessing that because of EPA cleanup regs it is cheaper to abandon a building than pay for the cleanup that would be required to sell the property. But I really am just guessing.
 
2013-07-25 09:29:40 AM  
i1284.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-25 09:31:53 AM  

stuhayes2010: stuhayes2010: Why is this article written in bold text?

He blames healthcare, insurance and the EPA.  Looks like he'shiat all the talking points of the right.

Looks like he hit (more coffee for me)


You forgot unions, which is probably the largest factor of all.  Well, besides the car companies just assuming they were too big to fail, refusing to acknowledge foreign competition, and then finally noticing it  around twenty years too late.  But that second one is just big business idiocy, not a talking point.
 
2013-07-25 09:32:30 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: I made it all the way down to this paragraph before the feeling of "What the God Damn fark is this guy talking about?" became too intense to endure any longer..



Dude, you had three more sentences to go.

In Detroit, government distorted the marketplace by replacing truth and honesty with a preconceived social agenda.  Because of this, things only got worse and Detroit is now bankrupt.  Detroit is but the first to fall...there will be more.

There, feel better now?

Anyways, in a way, I think he's accurate. After decades of dumping chemicals all over their property, it had become worthless. When the gravy train was over they really had no choice but to flee the city.
 
2013-07-25 09:33:38 AM  
So to get an additional 15 people, I had to hire over ten years approximately 120 people.

You'd think he might see a connection between this and high unemployment costs.
 
2013-07-25 09:36:05 AM  
It couldnt be the inevitable outcome of Capitalism.

The people that set up the system to make money, made their money.

Then left.

The rusting husk left behind is someone elses problem.

Its always "someone elses" problem.

/ OH look Dow Jones broke another record today....
 
2013-07-25 09:37:45 AM  

indylaw: Government and black people killed manufacturing in Detroit. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you could pay a Chinaman 50 cents a day to do the same labor in sweatshop conditions.


What the fark are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
 
2013-07-25 09:39:58 AM  
"I know who's responsible for my failures: everyone else and especially the blacks!"

- every republican in the country, apparently

/wonder what his business does...
 
2013-07-25 09:43:22 AM  
It happened sometime in the late 1980's.

Maybe his business failed because he sucks at punctuation.
 
2013-07-25 09:43:31 AM  
Note that the 'big 3' have moved their production to non-union states, and overseas manufacturers who have put production in the U.S. have done so in non-union states.

The union had a time and place (before 40/hr work weeks, OSHA, etc existed). Now they don't do much except keep production down and ensure that the workers are overpaid.
/my opinion on unions
//worth what you paid for it.
 
2013-07-25 09:44:01 AM  

Yes please: You forgot unions, which is probably the largest factor of all. Well, besides the car companies just assuming they were too big to fail, refusing to acknowledge foreign competition, and then finally noticing it around twenty years too late. But that second one is just big business idiocy, not a talking point.


what about the foreign competition having protectionist policies at home along with government subsidies and then getting brand new factories in the US tax free and payed for by anti-union state governments then free loading off the union equivalent salaries of their Midwest competitors. US companies had to move to Canada and Mexico to compete with Southern subsidized foreign companies. The whole time the Big 3 were forced to eat sunken capitol in 50~60 year old facilities while their competitors got brand new American factories for free.
 
2013-07-25 09:44:38 AM  

winterbraid: /wonder what his business does...


I don't know. His seven other articles for American Thinker are all Birther theories.

What ever his company did, I'd be willing to bet he got played in ever single negotiation he took part in.
 
2013-07-25 09:44:54 AM  
With free trade laws as they are why would anyone pay an American worker to manufacture their goods when they can pay a Chinese, Mexican, et al worker to do it for a small fraction.

It's fun watching these asshats try to pretend the reason for the decline in U.S. manufacturing jobs is some sort of mystery to be unraveled.

Hearing blue collar people who are "informed" by these liars parrot all the crap about unions and the EPA being the death of US manufacturing makes me sick. We're competing directly with countries that allow slave labor (people making cents per hour), extremely dangerous work environments and environmental destruction.
 
2013-07-25 09:44:55 AM  
img.izismile.com
 
2013-07-25 09:45:16 AM  
If I understand the article correctly his business plan was:

Step 1: Hire stupid people.
Step 2: Regulary sack most of the people you hire because they're stupid.
Step 3: Dump toxic chemicals on your own land.
Step 4: Behold the mystery of a high workplace injury rate, high unemployment payments and high cleanup costs for contaminated land.
 
2013-07-25 09:45:26 AM  
Didn't even blame the Jews. They're slipping
 
2013-07-25 09:45:59 AM  

farker99: Note that the 'big 3' have moved their production to non-union states, and overseas manufacturers who have put production in the U.S. have done so in non-union states.

The union had a time and place (before 40/hr work weeks, OSHA, etc existed). Now they don't do much except keep production down and ensure that the workers are overpaid.
/my opinion on unions
//worth what you paid for it.


Do you believe management is overpaid? Are you overpaid?
 
2013-07-25 09:46:53 AM  
Remember: if you expect people to internalize the positive externalities which they benefit from, you are "anti-business".
 
2013-07-25 09:46:55 AM  
I'm a little confused. Unless he moved his business to Canada, he couldn't have run away from the EPA. And unless he moved to Ohio or Indiana, he couldn't run away from the Michigan benefit system. I'm having trouble finding out if that's the case; the best I can do is find a 2010 reference to a "a Michigan entrepreneur named Don Wilkie" on some freeper sites, which leads me to believe he's still in Michigan, and what he ran away from is none of the things he whines about.
 
2013-07-25 09:48:20 AM  
for good or for bad the info in effect is correct
you want epa     the company pays for it
you want decent wages   -  etc
you want workmans comp  - etc

then we are surprised they go where they dont have to pay for it
http://inhabitat.com/chinese-air-quality-is-so-bad-traffic-police-or de red-to-wear-anti-smog-nasal-filters/

((see cost of doing business in the us))
 
2013-07-25 09:51:52 AM  
Kind of sounds like a crappy place to work. 20 employees and three wrongful termination suits. I have 20 employees and have not had a single case but maybe I am supporting his point. This attitude may be endemic in Detroit.
 
2013-07-25 09:53:30 AM  
It is clear none of the posters here ever owned a business.
 
2013-07-25 09:53:55 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: I made it all the way down to this paragraph before the feeling of "What the God Damn fark is this guy talking about?" became too intense to endure any longer..

The final nail in the coffin came from the Environmental Protection Agency.  It happened sometime in the late 1980's.  This was when by EPA decree, almost everyone associated with manufacturing in the City of Detroit, became a criminal.  People who had worked honestly for years to pay for their building and property woke up one morning to find that because of the EPA, their property was worthless, or worse.  Is it any wonder there are so many abandoned factories?


That darned Reagan-era EPA.
 
2013-07-25 09:55:14 AM  
If slavery was legal, they wouldn't have left!
 
2013-07-25 09:56:45 AM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: [i1284.photobucket.com image 420x270]


Ok, that is GENIUS!!!
 
2013-07-25 09:57:22 AM  

zedster: what about the foreign competition having protectionist policies at home along with government subsidies and then getting brand new factories in the US tax free and payed for by anti-union state governments then free loading off the union equivalent salaries of their Midwest competitors. US companies had to move to Canada and Mexico to compete with Southern subsidized foreign companies. The whole time the Big 3 were forced to eat sunken capitol in 50~60 year old facilities while their competitors got brand new American factories for free.


I'm glad you brought that up.  This phenomenon quite thoroughly debunked the myth of union manufacturing superiority.
 
2013-07-25 09:58:55 AM  

bindlestiff2600: then we are surprised they go where they dont have to pay for it
http://inhabitat.com/chinese-air-quality-is-so-bad-traffic-police-or de red-to-wear-anti-smog-nasal-filters/


And this is what's called a "positive externality", relative to a business. Teatards and libertarians like to ignore externalities, but any market solution  must include them. If I run a factory, and I dump waste into the air or water, I am benefiting from a positive externality. I get waste disposal for "free". But it  isn't free- the air and water surrounding my factory is not of the same quality it was before. This can lead to respiratory illness, acid rain. People downstream of me can be deprived the use of water from the river, because it's now poisonous. There are  costs, but other people are paying those costs. The costs are distributed broadly- it's like I'm stealing a penny from everybody impacted by my pollution- but  there remain costs.

One of the most important jobs of the government, as an economic actor, is to turn externalities into internal costs. That's what the EPA does- it says, "Hey, your waste management is creating a cost that's paid by those around you. No more! Clean up, and pay up!"

Unemployment, workman's comp, OSHA, these are the same sorts of things. In low-skilled labor, workers can be easily replaced. An unsafe workplace is a positive externality to a business- sure, some workers may be hurt or killed, but the business only pays a very small cost to retrain their replacement. If the cost savings of not maintaining the safest possible workplace are higher than the cost of replacing a portion of your workers- your business benefits, while your workers pay the actual price.
 
2013-07-25 09:59:01 AM  

Ray_Finkle: indylaw: Government and black people killed manufacturing in Detroit. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you could pay a Chinaman 50 cents a day to do the same labor in sweatshop conditions.

What the fark are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.


I finally got around to watching The Big Lebowski last week, and can I just say that the world of fark handles has gotten infinitely more amusing?
 
2013-07-25 10:02:15 AM  

t3knomanser: Teatards and libertarians like to ignore externalities, but any market solution  must include them. I


But if you just free market  harder, none of that matters!
 
2013-07-25 10:09:11 AM  

stuhayes2010: Why is this article written in bold text?

He blames healthcare, insurance and the EPA.  Looks like he'shiat all the talking points of the right.


Sometimes the fark filter pwns you, and sometimes you pwn it.
 
2013-07-25 10:10:33 AM  
You know what would free American industry from the financial burden of providing health care for their employees?

Single payer.
=Smidge=
 
2013-07-25 10:12:44 AM  

bindlestiff2600: for good or for bad the info in effect is correct
you want epa     the company pays for it
you want decent wages   -  etc
you want workmans comp  - etc

then we are surprised they go where they dont have to pay for it
http://inhabitat.com/chinese-air-quality-is-so-bad-traffic-police-or de red-to-wear-anti-smog-nasal-filters/

((see cost of doing business in the us))


I could save money on building a new home if I didn't install toilets.  Totally worth it.
 
2013-07-25 10:14:32 AM  

t3knomanser: bindlestiff2600: then we are surprised they go where they dont have to pay for it
http://inhabitat.com/chinese-air-quality-is-so-bad-traffic-police-or de red-to-wear-anti-smog-nasal-filters/

And this is what's called a "positive externality", relative to a business. Teatards and libertarians like to ignore externalities, but any market solution  must include them. If I run a factory, and I dump waste into the air or water, I am benefiting from a positive externality. I get waste disposal for "free". But it  isn't free- the air and water surrounding my factory is not of the same quality it was before. This can lead to respiratory illness, acid rain. People downstream of me can be deprived the use of water from the river, because it's now poisonous. There are  costs, but other people are paying those costs. The costs are distributed broadly- it's like I'm stealing a penny from everybody impacted by my pollution- but  there remain costs.

One of the most important jobs of the government, as an economic actor, is to turn externalities into internal costs. That's what the EPA does- it says, "Hey, your waste management is creating a cost that's paid by those around you. No more! Clean up, and pay up!"

Unemployment, workman's comp, OSHA, these are the same sorts of things. In low-skilled labor, workers can be easily replaced. An unsafe workplace is a positive externality to a business- sure, some workers may be hurt or killed, but the business only pays a very small cost to retrain their replacement. If the cost savings of not maintaining the safest possible workplace are higher than the cost of replacing a portion of your workers- your business benefits, while your workers pay the actual price.


agreed - your words are true
i claim tho the point remains that in the us
the burden is upon the business to avoid external costs (i hope im using that right)
 and since we do not protect them - for survival alone - they leave (if they can)

pls dont get me wrong - i like breathing clean air and knowing the food wont poison my kids
i also want real production to be here in the us
and not where its so much cheaper to fark the world
 
2013-07-25 10:14:58 AM  

sixfingers: It is clear none of the posters here ever owned a business.


1/10

Where in the United States does any of this NOT apply?  Sounds like some folks are wanting to go back to "The Jungle" days where employees really knew their place.

I'm surprised the guy in the article didn't complain about having having to match FICA deductions!

Let's see....Unemployment tax (state and federal) must be a Detroit only business expense the way the article goes on and on, right?  Don't fire people without cause or documentation and your modifier does not get raised.  I'm guessing from the tone of the article that he was a disorganized and impulsive boss who would fire people just to end a pissing match thus the high modifier.

Worker's Comp...So he was part of the high-risk pool?  That implies that the accident rate in his business was sky-high.  Train your employees!  You'd be surprised how much this helps.  Safety gear is less important, but still a big part, and drug testing helps safe workers from being injured by the actions of their co-workers.

As far as the part about employees "exhausting their UC benefits then filing a comp claim"  "Failure to report the injury within the 45-day time limit can result in a loss of all benefits under the Workers' Compensation Act."

Typical Stinker Report.  Full of crap.
 
2013-07-25 10:19:16 AM  

bindlestiff2600: i also want real production to be here in the us
and not where its so much cheaper to fark the world


The US remains a manufacturing powerhouse. We actually produce a lot of stuff. What is happening though is that the US manufacturing is shifting towards smaller companies, or companies that are willing to be socially responsible. The result is that a lot of very large companies aren't willing to compete on those terms, and these companies are the ones that complain the loudest.
 
2013-07-25 10:20:41 AM  

Smidge204: You know what would free American industry from the financial burden of providing health care for their employees?

Single payer.
=Smidge=


Which is something I was hoping for with Health Care Reform. Which, is perhaps a pipe dream, considering how many folks are involved in insurance these days. And that really is the bugbear. Folks want to keep the current system, not because it's the best in the world. Not because it would free doctors and hospitals from juggling forms, not because it would help businesses free up their own paperwork faeries, not because it would provide health care to citizens without worrying about how they might eat the next month, but because it would eat into someone's profit margin in a business that has helped explode heath care costs and put several thousand folks across the country to finding a new way to bilk folks routinely. The middlemen want to keep the gravy train rolling, and the current new HCR is about preserving them as an integral part of the system. It is life support for the insurance industry, and naught but else, and for all the gnashing of teeth and howls of outrage, the ladies doth protest too much, because they're still in the game, and moreover, they have been made entirely central to the process...

As for Detroit? Maybe if folks had been paying more attention over the years, they might have avoided this mess. But paying attention is hard, and instead, it's a damn sight easier to blame everyone else for taking your eye off the prize...
 
2013-07-25 10:22:55 AM  

bindlestiff2600: agreed - your words are true
i claim tho the point remains that in the us
the burden is upon the business to avoid external costs (i hope im using that right)
and since we do not protect them - for survival alone - they leave (if they can)

pls dont get me wrong - i like breathing clean air and knowing the food wont poison my kids
i also want real production to be here in the us
and not where its so much cheaper to fark the world


You can have clean & safe, or you can have cheap.  You can't have both.
For example, take this picture of that Land of Cheap shiat - China:
The left is the usual smoggy conditions; the right is what a city is supposed to look like.
www.marketplace.org
 
2013-07-25 10:30:47 AM  

Karac: bindlestiff2600: agreed - your words are true
i claim tho the point remains that in the us
the burden is upon the business to avoid external costs (i hope im using that right)
and since we do not protect them - for survival alone - they leave (if they can)

pls dont get me wrong - i like breathing clean air and knowing the food wont poison my kids
i also want real production to be here in the us
and not where its so much cheaper to fark the world

You can have clean & safe, or you can have cheap.  You can't have both.
For example, take this picture of that Land of Cheap shiat - China:
The left is the usual smoggy conditions; the right is what a city is supposed to look like.
[www.marketplace.org image 530x396]


That's not smog, it's the completely natural side effect of job creation unfettered by environazi regulations.
 
Displayed 50 of 127 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report