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(Crain's Detroit)   Despite the Detroit bankruptcy, Michigan moves ahead with corporate welfare for new Red Wings arena, with famous Fist statue to be juxtaposed with a statue representing taxpayers' nether regions   (crainsdetroit.com) divider line 26
    More: Fail, Red Wings, fist, Detroit, Michigan, bankruptcy  
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839 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Jul 2013 at 9:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



26 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-25 09:45:38 AM
"fun" fact.  Red Wings is a patch the Mongols wear to show they participated in a gang rape.
 
2013-07-25 09:53:06 AM
imageshack.us

The Detroit Drillers.
 
2013-07-25 10:05:18 AM
What is wrong with Joe Louis Arena? It was opened in 1979. I once saw a Beach Boys concert there. 1979 was only, oh I'm guessing because I am bad at math, 34 years ago?
 
2013-07-25 10:14:38 AM
I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.
 
2013-07-25 10:30:46 AM

YixilTesiphon: I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.


Hmmm.. Then you must hate roads/bridges and anything dealing with infrastructure too...
 
2013-07-25 10:41:45 AM
YixilTesiphon: I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.

Excellent point.

bkosh84Hmmm.. Then you must hate roads/bridges and anything dealing with infrastructure too...

Completely retarded reply.
 
2013-07-25 10:42:12 AM

bkosh84: YixilTesiphon: I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.

Hmmm.. Then you must hate roads/bridges and anything dealing with infrastructure too...


Did you just compare a privately owned sport team's arena to a vital transportation vein with the vital infrastructure tag?

/not sure if you're serious.
 
2013-07-25 10:56:22 AM

Kevin72: What is wrong with Joe Louis Arena? It was opened in 1979. I once saw a Beach Boys concert there. 1979 was only, oh I'm guessing because I am bad at math, 34 years ago?


North American stadiums are like cars, don't you know. Every year you're supposed to go buy a new one.
 
2013-07-25 11:00:49 AM

Kevin72: What is wrong with Joe Louis Arena? It was opened in 1979. I once saw a Beach Boys concert there. 1979 was only, oh I'm guessing because I am bad at math, 34 years ago?


It's not named after a corporation.
 
2013-07-25 12:06:20 PM

bkosh84: YixilTesiphon: I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.

Hmmm.. Then you must hate roads/bridges and anything dealing with infrastructure too...


That's right, if you think some things are outside the proper scope of government, you want to live in Somalia!

It's either that or you're a dumbass.
 
2013-07-25 12:27:58 PM
FTA :Observers have said the state was chosen to be the bond issuer because the Wall Street may look at any bond issued from Detroit with skepticism.

BAhahahahaha, ya think?
 
2013-07-25 12:33:36 PM
I'll never understand why states/cities keep with the economic warfare with each other and subsidies for sports teams, despite all evidence saying that it never pays off financially.
 
2013-07-25 12:42:24 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand why states/cities keep with the economic warfare with each other and subsidies for sports teams, despite all evidence saying that it never pays off financially.


They do the same for corporate headquarters. I heard that Cincinnati, Ohio and whatever Kentucky county is across the river trade the headquarters of some company all the time by offering higher and higher tax subsidies.
 
2013-07-25 12:51:54 PM
The agencies issuing the bonds are quasi-governmental designed for this very purpose. It's part of their job to help businesses grow by connecting them to sources of funding, as well as other Economic Development stuff, like marketing.  It's the same group that does things like the Pure Michigan campaign.

FTFA:
The Michigan Strategic Fund is an autonomous board within the quasi-public Michigan Economic Development Corp. and was created in 1984 to promote economic development. It has financed projects via bonds and owns others.

Plus, Olympia Development is paying $365 million to help pay off the bonds (which are for public improvements) and will be contributing another $200 million for private development (retail, residential). The remainder of the public improvements (aka what tax dollars should be used for) will to be paid by a special tax issued by the Downtown Development Authority, so unless you live where this tax is collected (615 acres), maybe it won't impact you at all.

People read headlines like this and think, "oh man they're using my tax dollars to fund a stadium", when really, they're using a variety of funding sources to leverage a project that includes the construction of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of public improvements, including new roads, water, sewer, etc.

The only complaint that I can understand is that people don't like Downtown Development Authorities because they collect a special tax that is not applicable to others; and in this case it seems to financially impact the school districts in some way but seems to have been applied in several other cases in Detroit. Or those that think they'll default on their bonds, in which case that is the MEDC's problem for voting to issue them in the first place.
 
2013-07-25 12:52:48 PM
WTF.  I think it's ridiculous that they're helping to pay for the new stadium.  Illitch (and his associated companies) have enough money to finance it for themselves.

Additionally, there's ZERO threat of the Red Wings leaving the state (or even the city) so any threats to do so would be meaningless.
 
2013-07-25 01:05:30 PM
They aren't getting tax incentives (that I could judge by the article, unless this project is in a TIF). They aren't getting free money. They are getting loaned money in the form of a bond, and it's not the City or the State that's issuing the bond. FFS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)
 
2013-07-25 03:27:42 PM
With regards to the comparison to roads as corporate welfare - there is actually a strong claim to that.  The vast majority of damage to roads (essentially all of it) is caused by truck traffic.  By building and maintaining roads, we are subsidizing companies shipping costs (companies that ship things, anyway).

Without government subsidized roads, it would be far more economically advantageous for companies to invest in rail and ship via rail.

Or we should just set up toll roads and charge trucks some serious coin.
 
2013-07-25 03:48:06 PM

MattStafford: With regards to the comparison to roads as corporate welfare - there is actually a strong claim to that.  The vast majority of damage to roads (essentially all of it) is caused by truck traffic.  By building and maintaining roads, we are subsidizing companies shipping costs (companies that ship things, anyway).

Without government subsidized roads, it would be far more economically advantageous for companies to invest in rail and ship via rail.

Or we should just set up toll roads and charge trucks some serious coin.


TADA! Your wish is granted.
 
2013-07-25 05:45:14 PM

MattStafford: With regards to the comparison to roads as corporate welfare - there is actually a strong claim to that.  The vast majority of damage to roads (essentially all of it) is caused by truck traffic.  By building and maintaining roads, we are subsidizing companies shipping costs (companies that ship things, anyway).

Without government subsidized roads, it would be far more economically advantageous for companies to invest in rail and ship via rail.

Or we should just set up toll roads and charge trucks some serious coin.


Oh, shiat. Maybe we should charge a higher tax on diesel fuel to compensate. Look, it's not the truckers' fault no government in the country seems to be able to reserve earmarked taxes for their intended purposes.
 
2013-07-25 05:47:11 PM

FullMetalPanda: "fun" fact.  Red Wings is a patch the Mongols wear to show they participated in a gang rape having sex with a menstruating woman.


Fixed.
 
2013-07-25 08:19:51 PM

Barricaded Gunman: YixilTesiphon: I hate hate hate seeing governments give money to private businesses to build stadiums. It is a huge waste of money and one of the most egregious and brazen examples of corporate welfare.

Excellent point.

bkosh84:  Hmmm.. Then you must hate roads/bridges and anything dealing with infrastructure too...

Completely retarded reply.


Ditto.
/libby libberson when it comes to spending too
 
2013-07-25 09:18:08 PM
This is part of the plan to turn the city around, this will create another spot for restaurants and shops and once the old arena is down they can do something about Cobo Hall.
 
2013-07-25 11:38:07 PM
Okay, I know this is FARK and all, but just a couple of things to keep in mind.

Taxing a company less than 100%, and letting it keep SOME of the money it made is NOT WELFARE.

Bonds are NOT WELFARE.

Welfare is when someone is paid actual money to be a loser.
 
2013-07-26 02:10:29 AM

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand why states/cities keep with the economic warfare with each other and subsidies for sports teams, despite all evidence saying that it never pays off financially.


Go on LinkedIn and check out how your elected officials are connected to private entities who they contract to.  It's not malicious, it's just another type of echo chamber.
 
2013-07-26 08:10:47 AM

SevenizGud: Welfare is when someone is paid actual money to be a loser.


You mean like the Lions?
 
2013-07-26 12:15:32 PM

Gulper Eel: You mean like the Lions?


Not this year - I guarantee it
 
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