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(Hardball Talk)   So when is an infield fly not an infield fly? Let's check MLB Rule 6.05e: The Infield Fly   (hardballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 37
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2784 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jul 2013 at 10:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-25 05:21:46 AM  
That seems like a lot of leeway for the fielder in the umpire's consideration of how routine is the catch.  It may not have been a very high pop-up, but certainly the spirit of the rule should have prevented the outcome.

I think the rule should be rewritten to better prevent the advantage for the fielder.  I've even seen fielders intentionally knock down liners with their glove to turn two.  Again it may not be a simple or routine play to catch the liner but definitely knocking it down implies a catch could have been just as easily made.
 
2013-07-25 09:31:54 AM  
Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.
 
2013-07-25 10:29:51 AM  

PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.


This.
 
2013-07-25 10:38:52 AM  
The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.

larrybrownsports.com
 
2013-07-25 10:50:08 AM  
By the definition of the rulebook, you SHOULD be able to use the following test to determine the infield fly:

With two outs, or no men on, if the player failed to catch the ball without some sort of obvious mental problem (thinking he was called off, for instance), would the player get an error?

If he would get an error, it's an infield fly.

Unfortunately, both no one actually follows the definition of the rulebook when it comes to errors, so
 
2013-07-25 11:00:57 AM  

PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.


Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.

And I think Morneau would have beaten the throw to first, had Frieri gone to second for the 1-5-4.
 
2013-07-25 11:04:21 AM  

bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.

[larrybrownsports.com image 530x293]



sportige.com
Watch it, you.
 
2013-07-25 11:24:28 AM  
When it is.... ajar!
 
2013-07-25 11:24:49 AM  
When it's a bunt.

/from the ESPN quiz
 
2013-07-25 11:36:44 AM  

bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.

[larrybrownsports.com image 530x293]


Happen to have a corresponding video or story so I can get the joke? Sorry, I just don't recognize the photo
 
2013-07-25 11:44:26 AM  

steveGswine: PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.

Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.


but what a play by ernesto!  what a smart play by ernesto!
 
2013-07-25 11:45:24 AM  

steveGswine: PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.

Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.

And I think Morneau would have beaten the throw to first, had Frieri gone to second for the 1-5-4.


steveGswine: PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.

Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.

And I think Morneau would have beaten the throw to first, had Frieri gone to second for the 1-5-4.


5-4 is third to second. He could have easily got the two lead runners since they were tagging up anticipating the catch (Morneau was almost there when the ball got to first so no chance at a triple play.)
 
2013-07-25 12:07:59 PM  

steveGswine: PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.

Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.

And I think Morneau would have beaten the throw to first, had Frieri gone to second for the 1-5-4.


Yes, the announcers were terrible on that play too.  And as TeamEd said, there's no throw to first on a 1-5-4.
 
2013-07-25 12:28:19 PM  

MmmCrime: bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.

[larrybrownsports.com image 530x293]

Happen to have a corresponding video or story so I can get the joke? Sorry, I just don't recognize the photo


Here
 
2013-07-25 12:39:01 PM  
When the play is not within the definition of the infield fly rules.

/you're welcome
//i took time to study it out
///'infield fly rules' is the name of my 'jeff goldblum singing backup vocals for the outfield' cover band
 
2013-07-25 12:45:05 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Unfortunately, both no one actually follows the definition of the rulebook when it comes to errors, so


Uh oh...
 
2013-07-25 12:46:01 PM  

Uncle Pooky: DeWayne Mann: Unfortunately, both no one actually follows the definition of the rulebook when it comes to errors, so

Uh oh...


Yes, someday I'll actually preview my posts.

But not today.
 
2013-07-25 12:50:39 PM  

Super Chronic: MmmCrime: bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.

[larrybrownsports.com image 530x293]

Happen to have a corresponding video or story so I can get the joke? Sorry, I just don't recognize the photo

Here


Thank you sir
 
2013-07-25 12:53:15 PM  
The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.
 
2013-07-25 01:49:44 PM  

PowerSlacker: steveGswine: PowerSlacker: Epic fail by the umpiring crew (see video).  Also, Frieri farked up an easy 1-5-4 double play.

Not to mention the announcing crew, which said the umpires often "call a sacrifice fly" on plays like that.

And I think Morneau would have beaten the throw to first, had Frieri gone to second for the 1-5-4.

Yes, the announcers were terrible on that play too.  And as TeamEd said, there's no throw to first on a 1-5-4.


My fault - for some reason, I saw the 4 at the end of the play and assumed the second baseman would have been covering first.

Still, I'd not have looked around behind me when I had two sure outs in front of me.

forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.


Without 6.05e, tackling the fielder under the ball turns into the offense's best strategy - one out from the interference, everyone else gets a few more seconds to get safely to the next base.  People got tired of that.
 
2013-07-25 02:08:56 PM  

Frederick: That seems like a lot of leeway for the fielder in the umpire's consideration of how routine is the catch.  It may not have been a very high pop-up, but certainly the spirit of the rule should have prevented the outcome.

I think the rule should be rewritten to better prevent the advantage for the fielder.  I've even seen fielders intentionally knock down liners with their glove to turn two.  Again it may not be a simple or routine play to catch the liner but definitely knocking it down implies a catch could have been just as easily made.


That rule already exists. If a fielder touches a ball and intentionally let's it drop to gain an advantage, it is a dead ball, batter is out and no runner may advance. It is specifically intended for line drives. Differentiated from the infield fly rule in that you must touch the ball (which you typically won't on what would otherwise be considered an infield fly) and applies to any hit on which the defence can gain an advantage.
 
2013-07-25 02:20:10 PM  

forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.


Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.
 
2013-07-25 02:43:32 PM  

dywed88: forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.

Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.


Passing up the small play to try and make the big one isn't intentionally failing.
 
2013-07-25 04:53:42 PM  

flak attack: dywed88: forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.

Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.

Passing up the small play to try and make the big one isn't intentionally failing.


This isn't Nam.  There are rules.

If there were no infield fly, then any pop up with two men on would be a double play.  And that would be silly.
 
2013-07-25 06:35:58 PM  
Ya, that's an infield fly, no doubt about it.  Even the pros get one wrong every once in a while.
 
2013-07-25 07:10:12 PM  
If you rob a bank and no one complains then you get to reap the rewards.
 
2013-07-25 08:11:02 PM  

dywed88: forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.

Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.


This is what I say about how it should be illegal to run the clock in Football.
 
2013-07-25 10:02:22 PM  

ekdikeo4: dywed88: forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.

Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.

This is what I say about how it should be illegal to run the clock in Football.


The biggest advantage football has in its favor, though, is that burning the clock reduces injuries.
 
2013-07-25 11:15:39 PM  

ekdikeo4: dywed88: forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.

Every rule restricts strategies. It is the way rules work, just like the rules against interference prevents a runner from blocking a throw to first or the ball from reaching a fielder, both valid and effective strategies withou interference rules, but the rules should be there.

Players should use strategies, but intentionally failing to make a play is leaning towards the "making a mockery of the game" area.

This is what I say about how it should be illegal to run the clock in Football.


You mean it should be illegal for a team use all of the time allotted to it before they snap the ball?  Why should that be illegal?  Maybe we need to give them less time?  But why should it be illegal to use all the time you are given?
 
2013-07-25 11:44:04 PM  

bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.


Yeah, braves point and laugh at shiatty umps
 
2013-07-26 02:28:08 AM  

forstmeister: The Infield Fly Rule is terrible to begin with.  In a game that claims to be based on strategy and thought, how can they legislate out a terrific strategy?  The defense isn't cheating when letting the ball drop to force the double play, they are just being smart about the situation.


I agree with you. Don't want a double-play on an infield fly? Don't hit one.
 
2013-07-26 03:07:08 AM  

bulldg4life: The ball wasn't hit far enough in to the outfield for it to be an infield fly.


Still don't know the rule do you...
 
2013-07-26 07:24:30 PM  

Pincy: ekdikeo4: This is what I say about how it should be illegal to run the clock in Football.

You mean it should be illegal for a team use all of the time allotted to it before they snap the ball?  Why should that be illegal?  Maybe we need to give them less time?  But why should it be illegal to use all the time you are given?


Arena Football actually addressed this pretty neatly: in the final minute of the game (so, say, to apply this to full-gridiron you'd probably do it after the two-minute-warning), a ball downed in-bounds (by tackle or knee) only keeps the clock running if positive yardage was obtained. So they could still run out the clock, but at least they had to make an effort, even a half-assed one.
 
2013-07-26 07:36:35 PM  

JSam21: Still don't know the rule do you...


Running 80 feet in to the outfield is still not normal effort.
 
2013-07-26 07:41:16 PM  

Fred Smythe: Pincy: ekdikeo4: This is what I say about how it should be illegal to run the clock in Football.

You mean it should be illegal for a team use all of the time allotted to it before they snap the ball?  Why should that be illegal?  Maybe we need to give them less time?  But why should it be illegal to use all the time you are given?

Arena Football actually addressed this pretty neatly: in the final minute of the game (so, say, to apply this to full-gridiron you'd probably do it after the two-minute-warning), a ball downed in-bounds (by tackle or knee) only keeps the clock running if positive yardage was obtained. So they could still run out the clock, but at least they had to make an effort, even a half-assed one.


You're talking about a rule change, that's fine.  I'm talking about a team using all of the time allotted to them under the current rules.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-07-26 07:54:43 PM  

Pincy: You're talking about a rule change, that's fine.  I'm talking about a team using all of the time allotted to them under the current rules.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Right. I agree with you there, but when the OP starts with "it should be illegal," he's suggesting a rule be changed too.

Yes, right now, there's nothing wrong with it, except that some people find it annoying and somewhat anticlimactic. So perhaps a rule change to address it is in order.
 
2013-07-26 11:06:53 PM  

bulldg4life: JSam21: Still don't know the rule do you...

Running 80 feet in to the outfield is still not normal effort.


You still don't know what is considered ordinary effort.
 
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