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(KOAA)   Anti-gun group gets gun control law passed in Colorado. Later, they discover their new gun-control law makes it almost impossible to implement a gun buy-buyback program. Thanks, Professional Smart People   (koaa.com) divider line 136
    More: Ironic, Colorado, gun rights, firearms dealer, Daily Camera, gun laws, guns  
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1179 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jul 2013 at 7:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-25 06:57:01 AM  
"law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.
 
2013-07-25 07:32:31 AM  
After the last decade of television one would be a fool to go to a gun buyback program
 
2013-07-25 07:51:05 AM  
How successful are these buyback programs at removing guns from criminals?

It seems like a criminal would be better off keeping the gun and simply using it to rob stores.
 
2013-07-25 07:52:42 AM  
If you think that Smart People are in charge, you're high.

I wish they were, but no, we insist on electing people.
 
2013-07-25 07:52:59 AM  
Gun buyback programs are a chance for local government to buy positive publicity at very low cost. Newsflash, criminals do not say, "Now, at last, I can sell my guns to get the seed money for the crafts boutique store I've always dreamed of and leave my sordid past behind."
 
2013-07-25 08:03:04 AM  
Left unsaid in the article:   Two of the Colorado state senators, including the president of the Colorado Senate, who voted for the new law face recall elections in a couple of months specifically because of their support for the new law in Colorado:  John Morse and Angela Giron.  Both are democrats.  Last election, Morse only won by a couple hundred votes, so it's likely that he'll get tossed.

Right now, the Democrats hold a 20 to 15 majority over Republicans in the Colorado Senate.  If both are booted out in their recall elections, they'll still hold a *SLIM* majority of 18 to 17, up until they have the next regular election, when they'd likely lose another couple of seats:  There were other senators who were subject to recall petitions, but those didn't get quite enough signatures, but that doesn't mean they'll get a pass in the next elections.  I count at least 7 Democrats who are up for re-election in 2014, and the pressure will be on them.
 
2013-07-25 08:04:13 AM  
Not that you clearly spend time preparing and disseminating partisan information or anything.
 
2013-07-25 08:07:04 AM  
wait so now gun buyback programs are suddenly awesome? make up your minds, shiatheads
 
2013-07-25 08:09:16 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: How successful are these buyback programs at removing guns from criminals?

It seems like a criminal would be better off keeping the gun and simply using it to rob stores.


Actually, often they facilitate criminals getting rid of guns anonymously.  Especially the "no questions asked" kind of gun buy-ups*

Also, there is evidence that those sorts of programs are ineffective and a waste of resources:

Missing the target: a comparison of buyback and fatality related guns
Key points:

Characteristics of handguns recovered in buyback programs are compared with those used in homicides and suicides in the same urban county.

Two thirds of buyback handguns were revolvers; two thirds of homicide handguns were semiautomatic pistols.

Three fourths of buyback handguns were small caliber. Homicide and suicide handguns were predominantly medium caliber.

The profile of manufacturers represented among buyback handguns differed substantially from both homicide and suicide handguns.

Buyback handguns were older and more likely to be made by companies out of business compared with homicide and with suicide handguns, and compared with handguns used in crime which have been traced by the ATF.

In summary, the buyback programs did not recover the handguns most closely associated with homicide and suicide in the same community.



*I hate using "buy-backs" because it implies that the government owned them in the first place, which they didn't.
 
2013-07-25 08:11:28 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.


That law is completely ridiculous and an affront to my rights! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go get my drivers license renewed.
 
2013-07-25 08:12:07 AM  

dittybopper: Left unsaid in the article:   Two of the Colorado state senators, including the president of the Colorado Senate, who voted for the new law face recall elections in a couple of months specifically because of their support for the new law in Colorado:  John Morse and Angela Giron.  Both are democrats.  Last election, Morse only won by a couple hundred votes, so it's likely that he'll get tossed.

Right now, the Democrats hold a 20 to 15 majority over Republicans in the Colorado Senate.  If both are booted out in their recall elections, they'll still hold a *SLIM* majority of 18 to 17, up until they have the next regular election, when they'd likely lose another couple of seats:  There were other senators who were subject to recall petitions, but those didn't get quite enough signatures, but that doesn't mean they'll get a pass in the next elections.  I count at least 7 Democrats who are up for re-election in 2014, and the pressure will be on them.


Racist.
 
2013-07-25 08:12:15 AM  

dittybopper: AverageAmericanGuy: How successful are these buyback programs at removing guns from criminals?

It seems like a criminal would be better off keeping the gun and simply using it to rob stores.

Actually, often they facilitate criminals getting rid of guns anonymously.  Especially the "no questions asked" kind of gun buy-ups*

Also, there is evidence that those sorts of programs are ineffective and a waste of resources:

Missing the target: a comparison of buyback and fatality related guns
Key points:

Characteristics of handguns recovered in buyback programs are compared with those used in homicides and suicides in the same urban county.

Two thirds of buyback handguns were revolvers; two thirds of homicide handguns were semiautomatic pistols.

Three fourths of buyback handguns were small caliber. Homicide and suicide handguns were predominantly medium caliber.

The profile of manufacturers represented among buyback handguns differed substantially from both homicide and suicide handguns.

Buyback handguns were older and more likely to be made by companies out of business compared with homicide and with suicide handguns, and compared with handguns used in crime which have been traced by the ATF.

In summary, the buyback programs did not recover the handguns most closely associated with homicide and suicide in the same community.


*I hate using "buy-backs" because it implies that the government owned them in the first place, which they didn't.


Do you get some type of alert when there's a thread involving guns? Like a gun bat-signal?

Also, what's the point of a gun buyback? It seems like a stupid waste of time.
 
2013-07-25 08:17:49 AM  
You sheeple think they're actually going to melt the guns down into a sculpture about gun violence?  Ha!  Those guns are going straight to FEMA.
 
2013-07-25 08:19:27 AM  

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: Do you get some type of alert when there's a thread involving guns? Like a gun bat-signal?


There are a few things that I keep an eye out for, gun threads are one of them.

I also look out for "abandoned baby" threads, because the distaffbopper and I adopted a safe haven baby, so you will often see me advocating for pregnant women and girls who can't take care of their babies and who don't want an abortion to make use of their local safe haven laws (every US state has one).

Another thing of interest to me are the crypto/NSA/privacy threads, because I used to work (indirectly) for the NSA, and the history of signals intelligence and cryptography is one of my big interests.  In fact, the first thing I posted this morning was in such a thread.

But yeah, I keep an eye out for gun threads.  I can't help it.  I was born that way:

img144.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-25 08:19:43 AM  

LasersHurt: I wish they were, but no, we insist on electing people.


Please, continue...
 
2013-07-25 08:21:51 AM  

Jackson Herring: wait so now gun buyback programs are suddenly awesome?


No, and I can't imagine where you got that notion from in this thread.
 
2013-07-25 08:25:53 AM  

dittybopper: SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: Do you get some type of alert when there's a thread involving guns? Like a gun bat-signal?

There are a few things that I keep an eye out for, gun threads are one of them.

I also look out for "abandoned baby" threads, because the distaffbopper and I adopted a safe haven baby, so you will often see me advocating for pregnant women and girls who can't take care of their babies and who don't want an abortion to make use of their local safe haven laws (every US state has one).

Another thing of interest to me are the crypto/NSA/privacy threads, because I used to work (indirectly) for the NSA, and the history of signals intelligence and cryptography is one of my big interests.  In fact, the first thing I posted this morning was in such a thread.

But yeah, I keep an eye out for gun threads.  I can't help it.  I was born that way:


That picture is awesome.
 
2013-07-25 08:25:55 AM  
Reading the article....the law itself doesn't make the buy back "impossible"

AverageAmericanGuy: How successful are these buyback programs at removing guns from criminals?

It seems like a criminal would be better off keeping the gun and simply using it to rob stores.


Well, sure, if he wants to risk going to jail.

I don't really know if there's a way you can track how successful the buy-back programs are, really. Ideally, you are removing weapons "from the wild" that are unwanted in way that they don't potentially wind up in a criminal's hand; it's probably better than throwing them into the garbage.

And yeah...."Pelle says a strict law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check. " I hardly see that as being strict, unless the requirements to become licensed are similar to something Texas Republicans cook up to become a licensed abortion clinic or something.

Foods that you needs a license to sell in Colorado:
Dried meat including jerky
Canned pickle products
Ice
barbeque sauces, ketchups, and mustards
Foccacia breads with veggies or cheese
 
2013-07-25 08:26:40 AM  
since gun buyback programs are pointless wastes of money anyways, i don't see the problem.

now if they would actually allow you to melt down the gun and beat it into a plowshare, it might not be any more effective, but it would be cooler.
 
2013-07-25 08:28:06 AM  

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: That picture is awesome.


Different gun, but I still loves me the flintlocks:

img.fark.net
 
2013-07-25 08:28:49 AM  
Uh oh. With this news, Tom Tancredo might start polling in double digits for the governorship.
 
2013-07-25 08:29:53 AM  
I'm pro-gun, but I really don't think this is a big deal.  Gun buybacks aren't really a key emphasis for the anti-gun crowd anyway.  It's like saying the US lost World War II because Eastern Europe went communist.
 
2013-07-25 08:36:00 AM  
Unintended consequences: how do they work?
 
2013-07-25 08:36:19 AM  

cman: After the last decade of television one would be a fool to go to a gun buyback program


WTF does the last decade of television have to do with gun buyback programs?
 
2013-07-25 08:39:31 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.


The problem with the law is that it does nothing to prevent gun crime. It will only restrict the freedom of law abiding citizens. It will stop grandpa's shotgun from being handed down or guns being given as gifts or sold privately between law abiding citizens.
 
2013-07-25 08:40:12 AM  
The law of unintended consequences rarely fails to make ma chuckle.
 
2013-07-25 08:41:18 AM  

GoldSpider: LasersHurt: I wish they were, but no, we insist on electing people.

Please, continue...


So we rarely get the smartest or most qualified people for particular tasks, but rather generalized popular individuals who may have no real ability to properly address issues they face?
 
2013-07-25 08:41:45 AM  

Jackson Herring: wait so now gun buyback programs are suddenly awesome? make up your minds, shiatheads


Who said that?
 
2013-07-25 08:41:47 AM  

proteus_b: since gun buyback programs are pointless wastes of money anyways, i don't see the problem.

now if they would actually allow you to melt down the gun and beat it into a plowshare, it might not be any more effective, but it would be cooler.


Stupid.
 
2013-07-25 08:42:06 AM  
FTFA:  The computer systems are not portable and could not be used at the sheriff's compound where the buyback was planned next month.

What the hell are they using for this that the system isn't portable.  Are they running these on punch card machines or something?
 
2013-07-25 08:43:15 AM  

snowshovel: And yeah...."Pelle says a strict law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check. " I hardly see that as being strict, unless the requirements to become licensed are similar to something Texas Republicans cook up to become a licensed abortion clinic or something.



Once upon a time it was rather easy to get your FFL 01, but these days, not so much.  In the past, it was legal to run what was called a "Kitchen Table FFL", where a person would get their license to run their "gun shop" out of their house to just buy and sell a few guns.  Now the ATF checks to make sure you have a physical store that complies with local zoning laws, has some sort of security plan (alarms, bars, safes etc) at has of course, business hours.  The licensed premises is of course subject to ATF inspection without notice.  Of course there are also reporting and record keeping requirements.

The days of someone getting a FFL 01 just to make firearms collecting easier are long gone.. sadly, the days of the FFL  03 (antique firearms collector) aren't far behind.
 
2013-07-25 08:44:36 AM  

Dr. Whoof: FTFA:  The computer systems are not portable and could not be used at the sheriff's compound where the buyback was planned next month.

What the hell are they using for this that the system isn't portable.  Are they running these on punch card machines or something?


Inside the sheriff's compound:

www.library.upenn.edu
 
2013-07-25 08:45:00 AM  
These programs claim to get guns off the street, but in reality are just helping people with spring cleaning of their attics.

However, the really successful programs do important stuff like providing funds to buy ammo for NRA sponsored shooting camps for kids.

cdn.mhpbooks.com
 
2013-07-25 08:46:32 AM  

badhatharry: ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.

The problem with the law is that it does nothing to prevent gun crime. It will only restrict the freedom of law abiding citizens. It will stop grandpa's shotgun from being handed down or guns being given as gifts or sold privately between law abiding citizens.


It doesn't prevent any of that, you simply have to go to a licensed firearms dealer and fill out the paperwork, it's not hard.
 
2013-07-25 08:48:33 AM  
So what.
 
2013-07-25 08:50:48 AM  
dl.dropboxusercontent.com


Gun control laws are often poorly thought out and lead to unintended consequences that their proponents do not care to understand because their agenda is entirely about politics and not public safety.

/If you want to pay thousands of dollars to strangers for their old scrap metal, that's fine.
/But you've probably helped to put more new guns on the street with that exchange when you could have spent the money curing cancer, or something.
 
2013-07-25 08:51:04 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Uh oh. With this news, Tom Tancredo might start polling in double digits for the governorship.


Never gonna happen, even the Colorado conservatives I have talked politics with realize he is a boviating douchbag draft dodger asshole.

That was the consensus for the 5 years I spent in the state.
 
2013-07-25 08:53:57 AM  

ReapTheChaos: badhatharry: ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.

The problem with the law is that it does nothing to prevent gun crime. It will only restrict the freedom of law abiding citizens. It will stop grandpa's shotgun from being handed down or guns being given as gifts or sold privately between law abiding citizens.

It doesn't prevent any of that, you simply have to go to a licensed firearms dealer and fill out the paperwork, it's not hard.


It's not hard to not do that.
 
2013-07-25 08:53:58 AM  

LasersHurt: So we rarely get the smartest or most qualified people for particular tasks, but rather generalized popular individuals who may have no real ability to properly address issues they face?


I was more interested in what you propose we replace our voting system with.
 
2013-07-25 08:55:22 AM  
You mean we passed a law that we didn't think all the way through based on emotion and now we're upset that we can't do whatever we want because of said law?  That's not right!  IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!

I support background checks too.  Knee-jerk laws are retarded though no matter the cause.
 
2013-07-25 08:55:38 AM  

ReapTheChaos: badhatharry: ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.

The problem with the law is that it does nothing to prevent gun crime. It will only restrict the freedom of law abiding citizens. It will stop grandpa's shotgun from being handed down or guns being given as gifts or sold privately between law abiding citizens.

It doesn't prevent any of that, you simply have to go to a licensed firearms dealer and fill out the paperwork, it's not hard.


No, see, my grandpa had a cherry 1967 Corvette that he kept in a climate controlled building, it was appraised at over $200k, but when he died we had to send it to the scrap-yard because the DMV, you know? Such a pain.
 
2013-07-25 08:57:15 AM  

way south: Gun control laws are often poorly thought out and lead to unintended consequences that their proponents do not care to understand because their agenda is entirely about politics and not public safety.


You just described Stand Your Ground laws.
 
2013-07-25 08:59:35 AM  

Dr. Whoof: FTFA:  The computer systems are not portable and could not be used at the sheriff's compound where the buyback was planned next month.

What the hell are they using for this that the system isn't portable.  Are they running these on punch card machines or something?


They aren't portable because the whole idea of the NICS system is that not everyone can get access to it.  Sure, you could install the software on a laptop, but generally a store is going to have just one copy of it, and if they take the computer with them to facilitate the buy-back, they won't have it in the store to conduct their normal business.

Plus, the kind of people who run gun stores don't like this sort of thing.  They'd rather pay for the guns, then turn back around and re-sell them.  That's how they make profits.

Also, this would require them to do the transactions for free, and no business is going to do that.  Go to your local car dealer and ask them if they can renew registration for the car you didn't buy from them.   Same kind of thing.  Now, going rate for a private transfer is something like $25 - $50, because it doesn't just involve a NICS check, it also involves filling out the infamous Form 4473, and entering the guns into their bound book along with the disposition of the gun itself.

That alone seems like a big sticking point:  The dealers are going to charge for the transfers, maybe even a premium over what they normally charge, because SCREW YOU, they don't like the idea and it's their business.  You can't require them to do it for free.  Also, any dealer that participates is likely to lose a significant part of their business:  Gun owners like nothing more than figuratively knifing people and businesses in the back that they perceive as having screwed them over.  Hell, they almost put the largest domestic manufacturer of handguns out of business because they thought they were sell-outs.
 
2013-07-25 09:02:50 AM  

GoldSpider: LasersHurt: So we rarely get the smartest or most qualified people for particular tasks, but rather generalized popular individuals who may have no real ability to properly address issues they face?

I was more interested in what you propose we replace our voting system with.


I've given little thought to it, but something where positions were delegated on subject matter, and people were put in those positions based on expertise in those areas. Either hired (but then you run into "who manages the hiring" or elected in position-specific, publicly funded elections. The end game is to get people into Government positions because they are qualified in those areas, and to have a mechanism for firing/recall if they are poor at their job.

The generic "representative/senator" thing is bunk. At the national level, take a look at the House Science Committee to lose all faith in the current system.
 
2013-07-25 09:03:10 AM  

snowshovel: And yeah...."Pelle says a strict law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check. " I hardly see that as being strict, unless the requirements to become licensed are similar to something Texas Republicans cook up to become a licensed abortion clinic or something.


It was argued that it really did put a huge burden on people wishing to buy guns from private parties, because the licensed dealer will probably not want to bother with your paperwork that would take several hours to process and could open him up to criminal liability (or at least loss of license) if he forgets to cross all the 't's and dot the 'i's.

I'm not sure if it will work out that way, I'm just telling you what opponents of the law said.
 
2013-07-25 09:03:37 AM  
Thanks, Professional Smart People

Is this some new meme I'm not aware of?  It has that conservative "down with smartz!" mentality written all over it.
 
2013-07-25 09:07:19 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.


Hmmm.  Couldn't they find a licensed firearms dealer to go along with the event and consider all the transfers to one person?
 
2013-07-25 09:08:46 AM  

Mentat: way south: Gun control laws are often poorly thought out and lead to unintended consequences that their proponents do not care to understand because their agenda is entirely about politics and not public safety.

You just described Stand Your Ground laws.


How so?

Don't use the Trayvon Martin shooting:  Stand Your Ground didn't apply, it was straight-up regular self-defense that would have been legal even in so-called "Duty To Retreat" states.
 
2013-07-25 09:10:17 AM  

dittybopper: [img.fark.net image 312x640]


*snicker*
 
2013-07-25 09:12:25 AM  

jayhawk88: ReapTheChaos: badhatharry: ReapTheChaos: "law that went into effect July 1 requires buyers to go to a licensed firearms dealer and undergo a background check."

I consider myself pro guns but I have no problems with a law like that. Those gun buy back programs are pretty much pointless anyway, they collect a couple dozen guns, most of which are old rusted pieces of crap people found in grampa's garage after he died, and they do very little to get guns out of criminals hands and off the streets.

The problem with the law is that it does nothing to prevent gun crime. It will only restrict the freedom of law abiding citizens. It will stop grandpa's shotgun from being handed down or guns being given as gifts or sold privately between law abiding citizens.

It doesn't prevent any of that, you simply have to go to a licensed firearms dealer and fill out the paperwork, it's not hard.

No, see, my grandpa had a cherry 1967 Corvette that he kept in a climate controlled building, it was appraised at over $200k, but when he died we had to send it to the scrap-yard because the DMV, you know? Such a pain.


I bet writing the check for the taxes was pain.
 
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