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(BBC)   We might not have a cure for cancer yet, but we did just find out how cat allergies work. Which could lead to more pleasant Caturdays for the allergic   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 39
    More: Cool, cats, allergens, Wellcome Trust, runny nose, allergies, immune cells, sepsis, immunology  
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2239 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Jul 2013 at 6:33 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-25 06:43:00 AM
What grumpy cat says to you when you are allergic to cats:

GOOD.
 
2013-07-25 06:54:38 AM
"By understanding the triggering mechanism, there are now drugs that have been designed that are in clinical trials for other conditions, such as sepsis, that could potentially then be used in a different way to treat cat allergy and to prevent cat allergy."

It's always mind-boggling how they find other uses for medicines.  And unlike Viagra, this one actually has a secondary use worth subsidizing.

/still kind of aggravated that my hypothetical boner scrip would be cheaper than Mrs. Samurai's depo shot
 
2013-07-25 07:14:27 AM
Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.
 
2013-07-25 07:27:52 AM
Cats are only good as dog food.
 
2013-07-25 07:46:46 AM
how cat allergies work:

cats innately know who in the room has cat allergies and are drawn to them, will sit on their lap, etc.

/that's because cats are assholes
 
2013-07-25 07:50:08 AM

ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.


It's worth it to me to take a daily pill, and a nasal spray usually twice a day (sometimes two different sprays depending on if my nostrils are inflamed) to have my four cats without constantly having chronic sinusitis.  Found out I was allergic after we'd already taken in 3 of them, and we just added a 4th.  It's only worth it to me because I'm a crazy cat lady though.
 
2013-07-25 07:52:52 AM

ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.


Having been allergic to cats and dogs since I was seven, yet owned many rescue animals, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, imo.

I have so many family and friends who are owners/staff to dogs/cats, that your 'simply avoiding' solution is simply unworkable.

I've trained my family to vacuum a minimum of 24 hours before I arrive, NOT the same day, as dust takes at least that long not to be a floating cloud of invisible misery for me. I take my antihistamines 24 hours before my visit, and have my asthma inhalers at the ready.

I actually live with a dog right now, but he's castrated, long-haired, and is showered minimum once a month. I very seldom even feel the allergic reaction to him. He's my family, and I can deal with my allergies (like I've been doing since I was 7)

If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.
 
2013-07-25 08:07:15 AM

uttertosh: If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.


My family and friends may not appreciate that.
 
2013-07-25 08:20:07 AM
Considering I'm horrifically allergic to cats, I'm really getting a kick...
 
2013-07-25 08:32:29 AM
Cats are horrible beings though.

Why override God's hint that you should avoid his most regretted creation?
 
2013-07-25 08:34:30 AM
I CAN HAZ IMMUNOMODULATION?
 
2013-07-25 08:42:33 AM
Why aren't these medical scientists working on something important, like developing a Poison Ivy vaccine?
 
2013-07-25 08:51:35 AM

Tax Boy: how cat allergies work:

cats innately know who in the room has cat allergies and are drawn to them, will sit on their lap, etc.

/that's because cats are assholes


Cats are apparently drawn to people who do not like them. People who don't pay attention to them, have closed body language, etc.

I have no idea why, but I read it somewhere (ergo it must be true).
 
2013-07-25 08:54:21 AM

uttertosh: ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.

Having been allergic to cats and dogs since I was seven, yet owned many rescue animals, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, imo.

I have so many family and friends who are owners/staff to dogs/cats, that your 'simply avoiding' solution is simply unworkable.

I've trained my family to vacuum a minimum of 24 hours before I arrive, NOT the same day, as dust takes at least that long not to be a floating cloud of invisible misery for me. I take my antihistamines 24 hours before my visit, and have my asthma inhalers at the ready.

I actually live with a dog right now, but he's castrated, long-haired, and is showered minimum once a month. I very seldom even feel the allergic reaction to him. He's my family, and I can deal with my allergies (like I've been doing since I was 7)

If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.


I have a slight dog allergy. What difference does that make?
 
2013-07-25 08:59:12 AM

kroonermanblack: Tax Boy: how cat allergies work:

cats innately know who in the room has cat allergies and are drawn to them, will sit on their lap, etc.

/that's because cats are assholes

Cats are apparently drawn to people who do not like them. People who don't pay attention to them, have closed body language, etc.

I have no idea why, but I read it somewhere (ergo it must be true).


Cats are single women, apparently.
 
2013-07-25 09:25:07 AM
A University of Cambridge team has identified how the body's immune system detects cat allergen, leading to symptoms such as coughing and sneezing.

DID YOU GET THE ITCHY EYES?  PLEASE TELL ME YOU GOT THE ITCHY EYES TOO... OH GOD THE ITCHY EYES!!!!  RUBBING THEM JUST MAKES IT WORSE!!!!
 
2013-07-25 09:28:24 AM

ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.


Some people dont have much of a choice due to their job or other factors...  Any repair man with cat allergies that has to make house calls would be in need of this, just for starters...
 
2013-07-25 09:45:32 AM
Or you could just get rid of farking cats.  I'm allergic, and when I go to my relatives' houses who have cats, they either clean up and air out their homes before I come or I stay until my eyes get itchy.  Usually I last about a half hour to an hour, then I leave. Fark medicating myself so I can stand their presence.

Of course, the goddamn cats won't leave me alone when I go to their places and apparently putting them in another room while I am there is "cruel."  I swear there is some sort of disease that cats give their owners which turns them into cat tards.

If you come over to my house and I know you are allergic to dogs (I have 2 long hairs) they get a brush outside and I vacuum and air out the house before you show up.  If it is still bad they go to another room or outside.  Somehow they survive with their sanity and health intact.  Of course if they go outside, they stay in the yard and chase each other around for fun instead of shiatting in other people's yards and murdering the local fauna.

/fark I hate goddamn cats.
 
2013-07-25 09:56:10 AM
So soon you should be able to get a poll that makes you become allergic to cats so you have a good excuse never to go near them again?
 
2013-07-25 10:18:31 AM

Farktastic: Or you could just get rid of farking cats.  I'm allergic, and when I go to my relatives' houses who have cats, they either clean up and air out their homes before I come or I stay until my eyes get itchy.  Usually I last about a half hour to an hour, then I leave. Fark medicating myself so I can stand their presence.

Of course, the goddamn cats won't leave me alone when I go to their places and apparently putting them in another room while I am there is "cruel."  I swear there is some sort of disease that cats give their owners which turns them into cat tards.

If you come over to my house and I know you are allergic to dogs (I have 2 long hairs) they get a brush outside and I vacuum and air out the house before you show up.  If it is still bad they go to another room or outside.  Somehow they survive with their sanity and health intact.  Of course if they go outside, they stay in the yard and chase each other around for fun instead of shiatting in other people's yards and murdering the local fauna.

/fark I hate goddamn cats.


I though at first that you might be my brother-in-law, then checked your profile

/he lives in Carolina, rather than Canada, but you are kindred spirits
 
2013-07-25 10:57:18 AM

we did just find out how cat allergies work.


My cats aren't allergic to anything.
 
2013-07-25 11:43:53 AM

Farktastic: I swear there is some sort of disease that cats give their owners which turns them into cat tards.


Toxoplasmosis.
 
2013-07-25 11:56:28 AM
Also an effective cure for cat allergies:

www.thefreshloaf.com
 
2013-07-25 12:22:00 PM

uttertosh: ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.

Having been allergic to cats and dogs since I was seven, yet owned many rescue animals, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, imo.

I have so many family and friends who are owners/staff to dogs/cats, that your 'simply avoiding' solution is simply unworkable.

I've trained my family to vacuum a minimum of 24 hours before I arrive, NOT the same day, as dust takes at least that long not to be a floating cloud of invisible misery for me. I take my antihistamines 24 hours before my visit, and have my asthma inhalers at the ready.

I actually live with a dog right now, but he's castrated, long-haired, and is showered minimum once a month. I very seldom even feel the allergic reaction to him. He's my family, and I can deal with my allergies (like I've been doing since I was 7)

If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.


okay, but spay/neutering my friends and family may cost me quite a bit.

/cant say they'll be happy about it either
 
2013-07-25 04:09:06 PM
Cool.  Unfortunately this weakens my 2-cat-household excuse for why my Dad doesn't stay very long when he visits.
 
2013-07-25 04:39:24 PM
"Therefore, this new information identifying the specific receptor interaction in the immune system could pave the way for treatments for those with persistent disease triggered by cat allergen and, in the future, potentially dog and house dust mite allergen."

This is good news for me because I am allergic to ALL OF THE THINGS.

And before anyone gets grumpy, I just found out last year, and it's not like I'm giving back my cats. I do have my mattress, box spring, and pillows all covered in mite-proof cases, which really seems to help.

/still wake up with gunky eyes every morning, despite the pharmacy of drugs I'm on.
//worst reaction is to grass, though.
 
2013-07-25 05:12:57 PM

Tax Boy: how cat allergies work:

cats innately know who in the room has cat allergies interpret human avoidance body language as "I'm not a threat" and are drawn to them, will sit on their lap, etc.

/that's because cats are assholes


FTFY--yes, the whole thing where cats tend to gravitate to people who actively try to avoid them IS pretty much an ethology/body-language-linguistic misunderstanding; most of our body language (especially the subtler stuff like looking away, shrinking away from incoming kitty, et.) that means "Go away, I don't want you near me" in human body language means "Hey, come on over, I'm not a threat" in cat body language.  (Want to make a kitty go away?  Lean forward and give kitty a wide-eyed death glare.)

And FWIW, this is actually usable for stuff beyond cat allergies; the same mechanism that causes cat allergies (basically a mix of a protein on cat dander AND a well-nigh ubiquitous lipopolysaccharide in the cell coats of gram-negative bacteria that is also linked to triggering septic shock causes a particular immune cell receptor to say "KILL ALL THE THINGS") also causes dog allergies, dust mite allergies, nickel allergies--pretty much allergies to most stuff that's airborne or a contact allergen.  (This probably won't work with true food allergies, nor would it work with stuff like bee venom allergies, but a cure for cat allergies would also kick the shiat out of hay fever, for one.)  So feel free to substitute "dog"/"Big Blue Room with Green Things"/"Costume Jewelry" for "cat". :D

(And interestingly, it seems that the receptor screaming KILL ALL THE THINGS due to a cat dander/lipopolysaccharide combo may be restricted to primates or just humans--probably some evolutionary mechanism originally meant to fight off some of the Nightmare Fuel parasites back in Africa but not so useful now that we can use tools and live indoors.  The same immune receptor in mice, for instance, is Far More Reasonable and doesn't throw mice into hay fever.)

/I is subby--pleasantly surprised this actually made it out of TotalFark
//much more biochemistry-student-oriented explanation here for the medgeeks
 
2013-07-25 05:18:58 PM

Wellon Dowd: Why aren't these medical scientists working on something important, like developing a Poison Ivy vaccine?


Doctors ARE actually doing research on stuff like this, too; interestingly, this COULD actually help with poison ivy/oak/sumac allergies too (assuming the urushiol reaction is triggered by the same thing that triggers dog and cat allergies; we're finding there are not only different kinds of allergies based on immunoglobulins triggered, but distinct triggers depending on whether the allergen is contacted via skin contact, internally, inhaled, etc.).
 
2013-07-25 05:21:43 PM

kroonermanblack: Tax Boy: how cat allergies work:

cats innately know who in the room has cat allergies and are drawn to them, will sit on their lap, etc.

/that's because cats are assholes

Cats are apparently drawn to people who do not like them. People who don't pay attention to them, have closed body language, etc.

I have no idea why, but I read it somewhere (ergo it must be true).


As noted before, this is pretty much true--all of our "go away" body cues tend to be (mis)interpreted by cats as "I'm friendly and not a threat" body cues.  (Conversely, a lot of our "Oh hai, there you are" body cues tend to also be (mis)interpreted by cats as "OMFG YOU'RE GONNA EAT ME"--hence why kitty may run away from the Friendly Cat Lady and jump into the lap of the Cat-Phobic.)

/ethology: it works, biatches
//universal kitteh greeting sign: slow (SLOW) gentle blinkies with a closed-mouth smile and looking very relaxed
 
2013-07-25 06:32:43 PM

Mike Chewbacca: "Therefore, this new information identifying the specific receptor interaction in the immune system could pave the way for treatments for those with persistent disease triggered by cat allergen and, in the future, potentially dog and house dust mite allergen."

This is good news for me because I am allergic to ALL OF THE THINGS.

And before anyone gets grumpy, I just found out last year, and it's not like I'm giving back my cats. I do have my mattress, box spring, and pillows all covered in mite-proof cases, which really seems to help.

/still wake up with gunky eyes every morning, despite the pharmacy of drugs I'm on.
//worst reaction is to grass, though.


Have you tried infecting yourself with hookworms?
 
2013-07-25 07:34:50 PM

bonobo73: Mike Chewbacca: "Therefore, this new information identifying the specific receptor interaction in the immune system could pave the way for treatments for those with persistent disease triggered by cat allergen and, in the future, potentially dog and house dust mite allergen."

This is good news for me because I am allergic to ALL OF THE THINGS.

And before anyone gets grumpy, I just found out last year, and it's not like I'm giving back my cats. I do have my mattress, box spring, and pillows all covered in mite-proof cases, which really seems to help.

/still wake up with gunky eyes every morning, despite the pharmacy of drugs I'm on.
//worst reaction is to grass, though.

Have you tried infecting yourself with hookworms?


what in the farking fark?

Well, I don't have food allergies so I'm not sure this is applicable.
 
2013-07-25 10:43:52 PM

Maul555: A University of Cambridge team has identified how the body's immune system detects cat allergen, leading to symptoms such as coughing and sneezing.

DID YOU GET THE ITCHY EYES?  PLEASE TELL ME YOU GOT THE ITCHY EYES TOO... OH GOD THE ITCHY EYES!!!!  RUBBING THEM JUST MAKES IT WORSE!!!!


Motherfarking this. Why would they fail to indicate whether they cured such a fundamental symptom?

CSB: When I was a kid I nearly died after walking into a house that had 4 cats living in it. Went into some kind of complete respiratory shutdown.
 
2013-07-25 10:50:42 PM

Mike Chewbacca: bonobo73: Mike Chewbacca: "Therefore, this new information identifying the specific receptor interaction in the immune system could pave the way for treatments for those with persistent disease triggered by cat allergen and, in the future, potentially dog and house dust mite allergen."

This is good news for me because I am allergic to ALL OF THE THINGS.

And before anyone gets grumpy, I just found out last year, and it's not like I'm giving back my cats. I do have my mattress, box spring, and pillows all covered in mite-proof cases, which really seems to help.

/still wake up with gunky eyes every morning, despite the pharmacy of drugs I'm on.
//worst reaction is to grass, though.

Have you tried infecting yourself with hookworms?

what in the farking fark?

Well, I don't have food allergies so I'm not sure this is applicable.


Actually...as bizarre as that sounds...there's a point why they mentioned hookworms.

At least some allergies (interestingly, including some triggered by the same receptor as cat allergies) seem to have been the result of the body's defenses going haywire--in some cases, the body's natural means to fight off worm infestations.  (There are documented cases of asthma rates going through the roof in developing countries as deworming programs have had great success in curing and preventing hookworm infestations in general; Fiji in particular, as well as parts of the Southeast where they had school-run deworming ops as late as the sixties, tend to come to mind in regards to research on the links between allergies and inverse relations to worm infestations.)

For that matter, it's thought that some autoimmune diseases ALSO result from similar "crossed signals causing the immune system to KILL ALL THE THINGS"; there's been some remarkable (and by "remarkable", I mean "damn near long-term remission and functional cure") success with treating Crohn's disease (a very nasty autoimmune illness where your body pretty much tries to destroy your small and large intestines) by, well, giving patients temporary infections with hookworms.  They hit upon the temporary approach, of note, in finding international travelers with Crohn's who quite accidentally did get hookworm infections (from walking barefoot on contaminated ground or eating bad street food) and essentially got cured of it :D

Now, if I was that misfortunate to have Crohn's, I'd be asking for the farking worms without question (seriously, I've known folks who've had it, nasty nasty farking illness and I don't just mean the usual case of Gastrointestinal Fark-You that comes with the territory; increased rates of colorectal cancer and often having to have not only the colon but bits of the small intestine out and/or living on some pretty harsh immunosuppressants come to mind).  Asthma...mine isn't quite bad enough yet for the worms; I can still manage it on meds that cost $150 monthly (thank goodness for FSAs during deductible holes...) but were I poor or coming down with an autoimmune disease on top of it, yeah, the worms might start looking attractive (especially in comparison to, oh, the monthly medicine bill for me going more to $800-900; hookworms can't be THAT damned expensive).

Of course, if a viable human drug can be made to modulate that particular receptor, we won't need the worms at all :D
 
2013-07-26 12:50:38 AM
Great Porn Dragon: ...SNIP...
At least some allergies (interestingly, including some triggered by the same receptor as cat allergies) seem to have been the result of the body's defenses going haywire--in some cases, the body's natural means to fight off worm infestations.  (There are documented cases of asthma rates going through the roof in developing countries as deworming programs have had great success in curing and preventing hookworm infestations in general; Fiji in particular, as well as parts of the Southeast where they had school-run deworming ops as late as the sixties, tend to come to mind in regards to research on the links between allergies and inverse relations to worm infestations.)

For that matter, it's thought that some autoimmune diseases ALSO result from similar "crossed signals causing the immune system to KILL ALL THE THINGS"; there's been some remarkable (and by "remarkable", I mean "damn near long-term remission and functional cure") success with treating Crohn's disease (a very nasty autoimmune illness where your body pretty much tries to destroy ...


There's a reason I have you favorited as "Smart person who comes in and says really interesting relevant things".  No sarcasm, you've made my day better and renewed my feelings of goodwill towards my fellow man/organism/universe (and not for the first time). Seriously keep up the awesome work.
 
2013-07-26 02:25:01 AM

Great Porn Dragon: Mike Chewbacca: bonobo73: Mike Chewbacca: "Therefore, this new information identifying the specific receptor interaction in the immune system could pave the way for treatments for those with persistent disease triggered by cat allergen and, in the future, potentially dog and house dust mite allergen."

This is good news for me because I am allergic to ALL OF THE THINGS.

And before anyone gets grumpy, I just found out last year, and it's not like I'm giving back my cats. I do have my mattress, box spring, and pillows all covered in mite-proof cases, which really seems to help.

/still wake up with gunky eyes every morning, despite the pharmacy of drugs I'm on.
//worst reaction is to grass, though.

Have you tried infecting yourself with hookworms?

what in the farking fark?

Well, I don't have food allergies so I'm not sure this is applicable.

Actually...as bizarre as that sounds...there's a point why they mentioned hookworms.

At least some allergies (interestingly, including some triggered by the same receptor as cat allergies) seem to have been the result of the body's defenses going haywire--in some cases, the body's natural means to fight off worm infestations.  (There are documented cases of asthma rates going through the roof in developing countries as deworming programs have had great success in curing and preventing hookworm infestations in general; Fiji in particular, as well as parts of the Southeast where they had school-run deworming ops as late as the sixties, tend to come to mind in regards to research on the links between allergies and inverse relations to worm infestations.)

For that matter, it's thought that some autoimmune diseases ALSO result from similar "crossed signals causing the immune system to KILL ALL THE THINGS"; there's been some remarkable (and by "remarkable", I mean "damn near long-term remission and functional cure") success with treating Crohn's disease (a very nasty autoimmune illness where your body pretty much tries to destroy ...


Scientists have linked asthma to allergies, so now that I know I'm allergic to stuff and am taking a bunch of meds, I don't have problems with my asthma. Also, I think I read somewhere that the human body has reactions to colds because KILL ALL THE THINGS and it's not the colds making us feel like shiat, it's our body overreacting. So this is veeeeeeery interesting to me.
 
2013-07-26 04:06:34 AM

picturescrazy: uttertosh: ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.

Having been allergic to cats and dogs since I was seven, yet owned many rescue animals, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, imo.

I have so many family and friends who are owners/staff to dogs/cats, that your 'simply avoiding' solution is simply unworkable.

I've trained my family to vacuum a minimum of 24 hours before I arrive, NOT the same day, as dust takes at least that long not to be a floating cloud of invisible misery for me. I take my antihistamines 24 hours before my visit, and have my asthma inhalers at the ready.

I actually live with a dog right now, but he's castrated, long-haired, and is showered minimum once a month. I very seldom even feel the allergic reaction to him. He's my family, and I can deal with my allergies (like I've been doing since I was 7)

If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.

I have a slight dog allergy. What difference does that make?


The allergens are hormonally related (clumsy phrase, sorry) I'm most allergic to uncastrated male-dogs, then uncastrated female-dogs, then castrated male and least allergic to castrated female.

I have no hard science or links to give, just lots and lots of rescue animals in my life to have made this assessment.

Sorry for the late reply!
 
2013-07-26 04:19:37 AM

maltedmothball: okay, but spay/neutering my friends and family may cost me quite a bit.

/cant say they'll be happy about it either


Fast Moon: My family and friends may not appreciate that.


ja, ja, ja.vi talar svenska i stället för engelska nästa gång, vad? (just because english is your native language, doesn't mean it's everyone's)
 
2013-07-26 04:41:02 AM

uttertosh: picturescrazy: uttertosh: ReapTheChaos: Having been allergic to cats my whole life I have to wonder why anyone would even want this. Medication is great for treating ailments and disease, but why would you want to take a pill every day for something you could simply avoid? No pet is worth that.

Having been allergic to cats and dogs since I was seven, yet owned many rescue animals, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, imo.

I have so many family and friends who are owners/staff to dogs/cats, that your 'simply avoiding' solution is simply unworkable.

I've trained my family to vacuum a minimum of 24 hours before I arrive, NOT the same day, as dust takes at least that long not to be a floating cloud of invisible misery for me. I take my antihistamines 24 hours before my visit, and have my asthma inhalers at the ready.

I actually live with a dog right now, but he's castrated, long-haired, and is showered minimum once a month. I very seldom even feel the allergic reaction to him. He's my family, and I can deal with my allergies (like I've been doing since I was 7)

If you are a pet owner who has allergic friends/family, please, please, get them neutered. Please. Pretty Please.

I have a slight dog allergy. What difference does that make?

The allergens are hormonally related (clumsy phrase, sorry) I'm most allergic to uncastrated male-dogs, then uncastrated female-dogs, then castrated male and least allergic to castrated female.

I have no hard science or links to give, just lots and lots of rescue animals in my life to have made this assessment.

Sorry for the late reply!


I just did a google search you're right, allergens are linked to hormones.
 
2013-07-26 10:14:42 AM

Mike Chewbacca: I just did a google search you're right, allergens are linked to hormones.


Nice link, Mike! *bookmarked* Thanks for that :-))
 
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