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(Ars Technica)   The Senator who previously warned us about the NSA's secret interpretation of the Patriot Act used to track your phone calls, emails and more is now warning us that everyone's cell phone has been turned into a 24/7 tracking device   (arstechnica.com) divider line 51
    More: Followup, Patriot Act, NSA, Senate Intelligence Committee, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, tracking system, Ron Wyden, surveillance state, Center for American Progress  
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8839 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 6:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-24 06:47:30 PM
8 votes:

new_york_monty: Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article


Senator Wyden, as a member of the Senate Intellegence Committee, is explicitly forbidden to say this is happening for sure, even if he knows it is true.

However, just as with the Senator's revelation that the Patriot Act was secretly being interpreted to allow spying on all Americans, he can hint like a mother farker.

For more than two years, a handful of Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee have warned that the government is secretly interpreting its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming if the public - or even others in Congress - knew about it.

On Thursday, two of those senators - Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado - went further. They said a top-secret intelligence operation that is based on that secret legal theory is not as crucial to national security as executive branch officials have maintained.


Senator Wyden has repeatedly warned us about cell phone tracking.

"Most of us here have a computer in our pocket that can potentially be used to track and monitor us 24/7," Wyden remarked early on, before vaguely warning of the prospect of "a surveillance state that cannot be reversed." Later he added: "Without additional protections in the law, every single one of us... may be and can be tracked and monitored anywhere we are at any time." And again: "Today, government officials openly tell the press that they have the authority to effectively turn America's cell phones and smartphones into location-enabled homing beacons."

He has sponsored legislation to make location tracking without a probable cause warrant explicitly illegal.

What more to you think he could do without landing in prison?
2013-07-24 06:38:17 PM
4 votes:
Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not. Yet this is the latest outrage. The government also has the ability to drop a nuclear warhead on your house, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
2013-07-24 09:53:57 PM
2 votes:

revrendjim: Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."

Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.



Too many in this thread don't actually comprehend. THEY ARE RECORDING YOUR META-DATA RIGHT NOW (location is meta data) and it is SAVED FOREVER.  They don't have to have you in mind or know who you are when they do it, because it is being done 100% of the time for EVERYONE and this information can be searched like google.
Snowden showed that this information can be accessed by any number of people who have no legal reason to do so.
Unscrupulous persons can use this information to OWN YOU.
2013-07-24 09:53:32 PM
2 votes:

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.

How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?


about this much storage space:
msnbcmedia.msn.com
Not sure about tracking real time, but once they've got you they'll have the evidence.
2013-07-24 08:55:36 PM
2 votes:

Hollie Maea: Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.


Until you cross someone in power.  Then it is front page news.  That's how this works.
2013-07-24 08:06:39 PM
2 votes:
It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."
2013-07-24 07:22:22 PM
2 votes:
The government is way too busy to pay any attention to where you are going.

Holy shiat! Mr. Thinks-he's-way-more-important-than-he-is went to the grocery store again!  If you are managing to get on anyone's radar, you are doing some pretty hardcore shiat.  Just think of the people you are competing with for the Government's attention.

And no, just because you are maintaining a blog about gun rights doesn't mean the government gives a shiat about you.
2013-07-24 07:05:09 PM
2 votes:
But.. I don't have a cell phone.

/Yes, I'm a dinosaur, I know
2013-07-24 06:54:51 PM
2 votes:
Is it too early to start stumping for a Wyden/Warren or Warren/Wyden electoral ticket?
2013-07-24 06:48:41 PM
2 votes:
I already leave my phone at home when I'm out committing crimes for this very reason.
2013-07-24 06:44:21 PM
2 votes:

revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.


Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.
2013-07-24 06:40:23 PM
2 votes:
farm3.staticflickr.com
2013-07-25 01:24:11 PM
1 votes:

Hermione_Granger: Is there anyone who doesn't know that the first thing you do is ditch your cell phone and don't even think about calling any of your contacts? Seriously.


Or you go to the nearest truck stop and duct tape your cell phone to the undercarriage of an out-of-town 18 Wheeler.  Track me now b*tches.
2013-07-24 11:35:46 PM
1 votes:
CSB

I have an Android phone with a couple of games on it. I get the free games, so I'm accustomed to seeing in-game ads. One day, my co-worker and I were discussing the benefits of Gorilla Glass. Later that night, the ads in my game were for Gorilla Glass.

Odd, but surely a coincidence, right?

A week later, we're having a party at the house and everyone is discussing their escapades of underage drinking.

The next day - ads for "Help Curb Teenage Drinking" and "Think Your Teen Might Be Drinking?"

Keep in mind, this wasn't anything I searched for on my phone - just things that were discussed in the vicinity of my phone while it was on standby.

/CSB
2013-07-24 11:31:06 PM
1 votes:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: No, they cannot track my cellphone.

It is a seriously old clamshell dumbphone. No GPS, no WiFi. It is currently off. And the battery is probably dead. It lives in the glove compartment of my truck.

Why do I still have it? No idea.


Yes, they can still track you.  Very easily through tower triangulation.  Even when your phone is off.
2013-07-24 10:59:11 PM
1 votes:

Sgygus: Politics change over time. What happens when we get tricked into voting some evil bastard into office?


Don't we always?
2013-07-24 10:39:59 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: So if I'm not doing anything wrong, why do I need to worry?


You only think you are not doing anything wrong.

Politics change over time.  What happens when we get tricked into voting some evil bastard into office?  What happens is that you get taken to the offices of Homeland Security to discuss your political views from twenty years ago.
2013-07-24 10:17:37 PM
1 votes:
Is there anyone who doesn't know that the first thing you do is ditch your cell phone and don't even think about calling any of your contacts? Seriously.
2013-07-24 10:16:10 PM
1 votes:

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.

How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?


They don't need people, and they have plenty of storage.

data center
2013-07-24 10:10:04 PM
1 votes:
Two words: realtime polling

Forget about them coming after you for your guns, or your bible, or your questionable porn tastes, or your antidisestablishmentarianism. They don't give a shiat about us, individually.

But if you could gauge the anger or fear of the electorate at any given time, if you could analyse our emails and tweets and blog posts and living room discussions in the agregate...thats better data for the political spin machine.

Imagine if your political strategists got poll results within minutes instead of days, due to this mass surveillance campaign? The politicians could modify their sound bytes fron one moment to the next, to trim their sails perfectly against the prevailing political winds.

Imagine if you could analyze it all realtime, and in response to instant changes in voter sentiment, feed the proper statements into the president's teleprompter, live?

You now have a machine that can generate political support for literally anything, whenever it wants.
2013-07-24 09:54:34 PM
1 votes:
I leave mine on the fish tank, so all they hear are soothing bubbles.
2013-07-24 09:37:22 PM
1 votes:
The NSA is not spying on us. They do not care what porn you are watching or what music video you watched or how many cyst popping videos you have viewed on YouTube.  Their only concern is Setec Astronomy.
2013-07-24 09:33:38 PM
1 votes:

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.



kg2095: How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls?


They only listen to the phone calls of people they're interested in. The cool part is, that if they become interested in you, they can not only monitor the calls you make today, but conversations you may have "persons of interest" from months or years earlier.


kg2095:  How much storage space to record all of them?


Do you believe in YouTube?
2013-07-24 09:22:35 PM
1 votes:
Eventually a Republican will be President again, and all of this surveillance will be doubled, but it will be OK.
2013-07-24 09:05:13 PM
1 votes:

Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."


Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.
2013-07-24 09:04:58 PM
1 votes:

ko_kyi: Until you cross someone in power. Then it is front page news. That's how this works.


And Obama was under surveillance since 2004. Remember when he campaigned to close GITMO, end warrantless wiretapping, and bring transparency back to government? Yeah about that...
2013-07-24 09:04:26 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: haha I use a dumbphone. it doesn't have gps.


You don't need a gps to be tracked.  Cell tower triangulation with forward link timing is enough to get a pretty precise position on you dumbphone.
2013-07-24 09:02:04 PM
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: This isn't news.


Quite right. I always assumed my mobile phone was trackable.
2013-07-24 08:59:12 PM
1 votes:
Does nobody understand how the travel time prediction in Google Navigator works?  Every single phone going down the highway is being tracked. An aggregate of how fast they are moving gives a fairly accurate prediction of travel time for any given section of roadway. Every GPS ping is tied to a specific ID on the device.  Not hard to figure out where the device is.

/one ping
//one ping only
2013-07-24 08:43:58 PM
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: vudukungfu: They know what porn you love

Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.


Do you think that information can't be used to control you? What if someone threatens to expose your tastes to your colleagues, wife, grandmother....
2013-07-24 08:33:18 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: So if I'm not doing anything wrong, why do I need to worry?


I'm pretty sure if you had someone go over your life in detail a good lawyer could find at least a crime or two you commit every day, the reason you think you aren't doing anything wrong is probably because you don't realize what you are doing is already a crime and that the police don't know you are doing it because they aren't aware of every detail of your activity each day, yet.  So worry or don't, but realize you have a stake in the state of our country's privacy policy.

I figure you were being sarcastic, but answering the question literally is informative as well.
2013-07-24 08:32:45 PM
1 votes:

Great Janitor: Hollie Maea: vudukungfu: They know what porn you love

Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.

So, my hidden folder of jailbaits pics, and the videos of interracial lesbians wearing clown make-up and butt plugs designed to look like horse tails pissing into each other's mouths while calling each other racial slurs while asphyxiating their own personal gimps to the point of them passing out and then kicking them repeatedly with stiletto heel shoes really isn't going to cause any notice within the U.S. government.


That's a good start, but you really are going to need to up your game.  How do goats surgically altered to look like Hello Kitty make you feel?
2013-07-24 08:27:00 PM
1 votes:
By the way, I should point out that I am opposed to these things on principal.  Just don't delude yourself that you could do anything to really get the government's attention without it being something way beyond what most people would be ok with doing.
2013-07-24 08:22:10 PM
1 votes:
FTA, "Wyden closed by invoking the warning of James Madison from Federalist No. 47 ("The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands [...] may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny"). He asked, "By allowing the executive to secretly follow a secret interpretation of the law under the supervision of a secret, non-adversarial court and occasional secret Congressional hearings, how close are we to James Madison's definition of tyranny?""

Ovens would have to be fired up before some would see the problem.

/Thunderous applause
2013-07-24 08:21:40 PM
1 votes:
I like Wyden more and more every day.
2013-07-24 08:19:03 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: They know what porn you love


Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.
2013-07-24 08:13:25 PM
1 votes:

wee: Wait until people find out they can turn on the camera and microphone remotely, too.


Wait 'till people find out all calls are being recorded for future search and review.
2013-07-24 08:10:01 PM
1 votes:

queezyweezel: I was just ranting about this on Facebook......


Same here! Right after I acknowledged where I went to school. Then I posted pics of my first pet, Fluffy, and took Facebook up on their suggestion that I list my family members. I'm glad my mom includes her maiden name in her handle so people can find her.

I did that right after I Checked In at the corner cafe with the free internet.
2013-07-24 08:09:44 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: Mija: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

Alex Jones talked about this years ago.

Yeah, and at the time everyone denounced him as a crackpot.

Funny how times change.


This came up a couple of months ago on Fark and I was called a Ludite, a paranoid, and an old grump. I plead guilty to the latter.
2013-07-24 07:54:10 PM
1 votes:

HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?


Depends on where you are; here in Philly, the 911 system doesn't have that technology.  If you can't give them a street address when you call, you're boned.
2013-07-24 07:42:36 PM
1 votes:
Nobody give a shiat where you are or where you're going. They don't really care about your phone calls or emails either. But, if your doing something criminal, and are suspected, they can track the shiat out of you. Everyone else can carry on as usual.
2013-07-24 07:33:55 PM
1 votes:
They watch you when you're voting
They see when you're awake
They know if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake

They know where you've been shopping
They know what porn you love
They know your FICA scores now
But they're peace full as a dove

You better not snoop
You'd better not spy
You'd better not peek
I'm telling you why
Satan's claws are coming to town.
2013-07-24 07:29:04 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: Mija: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

Alex Jones talked about this years ago.

Yeah, and at the time everyone denounced him as a crackpot.

Funny how times change.


A stopped brain is right twice a day. Or something.
2013-07-24 07:25:00 PM
1 votes:

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: new_york_monty: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.

Law enforcement has been obtaining cell phone location data without warrants for years.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/warrantless-cellphone-tracking-leg al -federal-court-rules-944452

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/exclusive-what-local-cops-learn-ca rr iers-earn-cellphone-records-721604?franchiseSlug=technolog


That's a shiatty ruling. I'd be interested to see how that turns out in SCOTUS, especially in light of US v Jones and GPS tracking. I was looking to see if there has been any further action in the case you linked, but can't find anything regarding whether the case has been taken up or not.

The truth is, I am pretty outraged about the erosion of the 4th and government overreaches of the Constitution in general. I'd love to see something done about it and will be paying close attention to the subject come election time. I just didn't think the article was quite as outrage inducing as the Fark headline indicated, even if that is the implication of Wyden's speech. I get that he can't come out and say it directly, but it still seems like nothing is really going to happen unless someone does.

I like what Wyden is doing here, but I want more. I would be thrilled to see the Patriot Act go away and the government's domestic spying capabilities hamstrung by stringent warranting requirements for any type of digital snooping on Americans. And not in FISA. In a real court.
2013-07-24 07:18:12 PM
1 votes:

Mija: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

Alex Jones talked about this years ago.


Yeah, and at the time everyone denounced him as a crackpot.

Funny how times change.
wee [TotalFark]
2013-07-24 07:12:18 PM
1 votes:
Wait until people find out they can turn on the camera and microphone remotely, too.
2013-07-24 06:41:07 PM
1 votes:
That's why I pay cash for disposables
2013-07-24 06:39:34 PM
1 votes:
That would explain why the battery doesn't last for more than 10 minutes
2013-07-24 06:38:39 PM
1 votes:
That's why I leave my cel phone in the other room.
2013-07-24 06:33:06 PM
1 votes:
How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?
2013-07-24 06:25:54 PM
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: This isn't news.


That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.
 
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