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(Ars Technica)   The Senator who previously warned us about the NSA's secret interpretation of the Patriot Act used to track your phone calls, emails and more is now warning us that everyone's cell phone has been turned into a 24/7 tracking device   (arstechnica.com) divider line 220
    More: Followup, Patriot Act, NSA, Senate Intelligence Committee, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, tracking system, Ron Wyden, surveillance state, Center for American Progress  
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8843 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 6:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-24 08:46:50 PM  

skinink:


Nice reference! Also proof of my theory that John Cazale is the actor that has had the highest ratio of great movies. Not one stinker.
 
2013-07-24 08:48:36 PM  

UseLessHuman: HotIgneous Intruder: So if I'm not doing anything wrong, why do I need to worry?

I'm pretty sure if you had someone go over your life in detail a good lawyer could find at least a crime or two you commit every day, the reason you think you aren't doing anything wrong is probably because you don't realize what you are doing is already a crime and that the police don't know you are doing it because they aren't aware of every detail of your activity each day, yet.  So worry or don't, but realize you have a stake in the state of our country's privacy policy.

I figure you were being sarcastic, but answering the question literally is informative as well.


It's useful to have this seared into everyone's brain so that the next time some law and order type suggests another way to monitor us at all times, you know to tell him to sod off.
 
2013-07-24 08:51:28 PM  

Hollie Maea: Great Janitor: Hollie Maea: vudukungfu: They know what porn you love

Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.

So, my hidden folder of jailbaits pics, and the videos of interracial lesbians wearing clown make-up and butt plugs designed to look like horse tails pissing into each other's mouths while calling each other racial slurs while asphyxiating their own personal gimps to the point of them passing out and then kicking them repeatedly with stiletto heel shoes really isn't going to cause any notice within the U.S. government.

That's a good start, but you really are going to need to up your game.  How do goats surgically altered to look like Hello Kitty make you feel?


That sounds rather tame compared to the videos of women doing sexual things to other animals before slaughtering them and cooking them up.  Kind of a sexual beastiality/snuff film/naked barbecuing film starring former Peta members for extra hotness.
 
2013-07-24 08:55:36 PM  

Hollie Maea: Again, no one finds your vanilla porn to be the least bit interesting or notable.  You have to be into some pretty sick shiat to get onto some poor bureaucrat's radar.  Remember, there are 300 million Americans and you are competing with the guy who gets off watching clowns mung with partial-birth aborted fetuses.  Your secret folder of tranny porn isn't nearly as exotic as you imagine.  Honestly, if your porn is weird enough to be noticed, probably someone SHOULD keep an eye on you.


Until you cross someone in power.  Then it is front page news.  That's how this works.
 
2013-07-24 08:59:12 PM  
Does nobody understand how the travel time prediction in Google Navigator works?  Every single phone going down the highway is being tracked. An aggregate of how fast they are moving gives a fairly accurate prediction of travel time for any given section of roadway. Every GPS ping is tied to a specific ID on the device.  Not hard to figure out where the device is.

/one ping
//one ping only
 
2013-07-24 08:59:45 PM  
haha I use a dumbphone. it doesn't have gps.
 
2013-07-24 09:01:38 PM  

skinink: [farm3.staticflickr.com image 500x312]


Great movie.
 
2013-07-24 09:02:04 PM  

Captain Steroid: This isn't news.


Quite right. I always assumed my mobile phone was trackable.
 
2013-07-24 09:02:14 PM  
Just leave the farking thing home.
 
2013-07-24 09:04:26 PM  

Hobodeluxe: haha I use a dumbphone. it doesn't have gps.


You don't need a gps to be tracked.  Cell tower triangulation with forward link timing is enough to get a pretty precise position on you dumbphone.
 
2013-07-24 09:04:58 PM  

ko_kyi: Until you cross someone in power. Then it is front page news. That's how this works.


And Obama was under surveillance since 2004. Remember when he campaigned to close GITMO, end warrantless wiretapping, and bring transparency back to government? Yeah about that...
 
2013-07-24 09:05:13 PM  

Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."


Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.
 
2013-07-24 09:10:39 PM  

Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.


How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?
 
2013-07-24 09:14:41 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: So if I'm not doing anything wrong, why do I need to worry?


More chance to run into a dirty cop?
 
2013-07-24 09:15:46 PM  

Hollie Maea: By the way, I should point out that I am opposed to these things on principal.  Just don't delude yourself that you could do anything to really get the government's attention without it being something way beyond what most people would be ok with doing.


Slippery slope that is.
 
2013-07-24 09:19:15 PM  
jj325: That's why I pay cash for disposables

i1145.photobucket.com

The additional layer of security is comforting.
 
2013-07-24 09:22:12 PM  

jestme: Do you think that information can't be used to control you? What if someone threatens to expose your tastes to your colleagues, wife, grandmother....


You've been watching The Net too many times.
 
2013-07-24 09:22:25 PM  
Actually, it goes deeper than that.
mysticalchrist.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-24 09:22:35 PM  
Eventually a Republican will be President again, and all of this surveillance will be doubled, but it will be OK.
 
2013-07-24 09:23:19 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Hollie Maea: By the way, I should point out that I am opposed to these things on principal.  Just don't delude yourself that you could do anything to really get the government's attention without it being something way beyond what most people would be ok with doing.

Slippery slope that is.


What's funny is that you don't understand that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.
 
2013-07-24 09:28:26 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: jestme: Do you think that information can't be used to control you? What if someone threatens to expose your tastes to your colleagues, wife, grandmother....

You've been watching The Net too many times.


Nobody cares. Hell, if you abandon your post and go cheat on your wife, on the taxpayer's dime, you can still get elected to public office. Tweet pictures of your dong to random women after having to resign from office for tweeting pictures of your dong? No problem. Hiring high-class call girls while married? Well, that doesn't really bother me if you weren't using taxpayer bucks, and you're not a "family values" nitwit. But still.
 
2013-07-24 09:28:26 PM  
This is an outrage...why just this morning I woke up and went about my business.
 
2013-07-24 09:31:22 PM  
my cell phone isn't attached to my name in any legal sense
so the point is moot


MOOT
 
2013-07-24 09:33:38 PM  

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.



kg2095: How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls?


They only listen to the phone calls of people they're interested in. The cool part is, that if they become interested in you, they can not only monitor the calls you make today, but conversations you may have "persons of interest" from months or years earlier.


kg2095:  How much storage space to record all of them?


Do you believe in YouTube?
 
2013-07-24 09:37:22 PM  
The NSA is not spying on us. They do not care what porn you are watching or what music video you watched or how many cyst popping videos you have viewed on YouTube.  Their only concern is Setec Astronomy.
 
2013-07-24 09:39:58 PM  

BullBearMS: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: new_york_monty: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.

Law enforcement has been obtaining cell phone location data without warrants for years.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/warrantless-cellphone-tracking-leg al -federal-court-rules-944452

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/exclusive-what-local-cops-learn-ca rr iers-earn-cellphone-records-721604?franchiseSlug=technolog

It's also the position of the Obama administration.

The Obama administration told a federal court Tuesday that the public has no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in cellphone location data, and hence the authorities may obtain documents detailing a person's movements from wireless carriers without a probable-cause warrant.


How liberal of them.
 
2013-07-24 09:42:02 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: StoPPeRmobile: Hollie Maea: By the way, I should point out that I am opposed to these things on principal.  Just don't delude yourself that you could do anything to really get the government's attention without it being something way beyond what most people would be ok with doing.

Slippery slope that is.

What's funny is that you don't understand that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.


Not anymore. It has become a logical reality.
 
2013-07-24 09:42:11 PM  

2wolves: olddinosaur: Mija: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

Alex Jones talked about this years ago.

Yeah, and at the time everyone denounced him as a crackpot.

Funny how times change.

This came up a couple of months ago on Fark and I was called a Ludite, a paranoid, and an old grump. I plead guilty to the latter.


No no no, this is old news, no one cares, and there is no problem!

Said every Obama supporter on Fark.

Authoritarian DINOs.
 
2013-07-24 09:43:43 PM  

ChuDogg: ko_kyi: Until you cross someone in power. Then it is front page news. That's how this works.

And Obama was under surveillance since 2004. Remember when he campaigned to close GITMO, end warrantless wiretapping, and bring transparency back to government? Yeah about that...


Pepperidge Farms remembers.
 
2013-07-24 09:44:58 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: StoPPeRmobile: Hollie Maea: By the way, I should point out that I am opposed to these things on principal.  Just don't delude yourself that you could do anything to really get the government's attention without it being something way beyond what most people would be ok with doing.

Slippery slope that is.

What's funny is that you don't understand that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.



The belief that any "slippery slope" proposition is necessarily a "logical fallacy" is itself a fallacy.
 
2013-07-24 09:47:55 PM  
Hollie Maea:  watching clowns mung

Now that's a great name for a band!

/sorry, it had to happen eventually
 
2013-07-24 09:50:42 PM  

Amos Quito: kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.


kg2095: How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls?


They only listen to the phone calls of people they're interested in. The cool part is, that if they become interested in you, they can not only monitor the calls you make today, but conversations you may have "persons of interest" from months or years earlier.


kg2095:  How much storage space to record all of them?


Do you believe in YouTube?


Bull. It's not just the storage space but the pipe, the series of tubes, that it would take to funnel every freaking phone call into NSAs data facility in real time. That just ain't possible.
 
2013-07-24 09:52:56 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: What's funny is that you don't understand that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.


Not automatically. It's a logical fallacy if you presume the slide without supporting each... hmm... stage of the way down?
 
2013-07-24 09:53:32 PM  

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.

How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?


about this much storage space:
msnbcmedia.msn.com
Not sure about tracking real time, but once they've got you they'll have the evidence.
 
2013-07-24 09:53:57 PM  

revrendjim: Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."

Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.



Too many in this thread don't actually comprehend. THEY ARE RECORDING YOUR META-DATA RIGHT NOW (location is meta data) and it is SAVED FOREVER.  They don't have to have you in mind or know who you are when they do it, because it is being done 100% of the time for EVERYONE and this information can be searched like google.
Snowden showed that this information can be accessed by any number of people who have no legal reason to do so.
Unscrupulous persons can use this information to OWN YOU.
 
2013-07-24 09:54:34 PM  
I leave mine on the fish tank, so all they hear are soothing bubbles.
 
2013-07-24 10:00:34 PM  

sendtodave: 2wolves: olddinosaur: Mija: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

Alex Jones talked about this years ago.

Yeah, and at the time everyone denounced him as a crackpot.

Funny how times change.

This came up a couple of months ago on Fark and I was called a Ludite, a paranoid, and an old grump. I plead guilty to the latter.

No no no, this is old news, no one cares, and there is no problem!

Said every Obama supporter on Fark.

Authoritarian DINOs.


When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, I wasn't a Jew;

When they came for the Communists, I said nothing, I wasn't a Communist;

When they came for the labor unionists, I said nothing, I wasn't a labor unionist;

When they came for the Catholics I sand nothing, I wasn't a Catholic;

When they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.

DOES HISTORY REPEAT ITSELF?
 
2013-07-24 10:04:42 PM  

Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."

Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.


Too many in this thread don't actually comprehend. THEY ARE RECORDING YOUR META-DATA RIGHT NOW (location is meta data) and it is SAVED FOREVER.  They don't have to have you in mind or know who you are when they do it, because it is being done 100% of the time for EVERYONE and this information can be searched like google.
Snowden showed that this information can be accessed by any number of people who have no legal reason to do so.
Unscrupulous persons can use this information to OWN YOU.


just join a mafia, nobody can touch mafias not even Putin
 
2013-07-24 10:07:48 PM  
olddinosaur
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, I wasn't a Jew;

When they came for the Communists, I said nothing, I wasn't a Communist;

When they came for the labor unionists, I said nothing, I wasn't a labor unionist;

When they came for the Catholics I sand nothing, I wasn't a Catholic;


If only those guys had had nothing to hide, they wouldn't have had anything to fear!
 
2013-07-24 10:10:04 PM  
Two words: realtime polling

Forget about them coming after you for your guns, or your bible, or your questionable porn tastes, or your antidisestablishmentarianism. They don't give a shiat about us, individually.

But if you could gauge the anger or fear of the electorate at any given time, if you could analyse our emails and tweets and blog posts and living room discussions in the agregate...thats better data for the political spin machine.

Imagine if your political strategists got poll results within minutes instead of days, due to this mass surveillance campaign? The politicians could modify their sound bytes fron one moment to the next, to trim their sails perfectly against the prevailing political winds.

Imagine if you could analyze it all realtime, and in response to instant changes in voter sentiment, feed the proper statements into the president's teleprompter, live?

You now have a machine that can generate political support for literally anything, whenever it wants.
 
2013-07-24 10:13:43 PM  

Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Great Janitor: It's a sad day when there is a news article confirming that the U.S. government is using our cell phones to spy on us 24/7, and the response from the population is "yeah, we know."

Jesus, the article says that it is technically possible to use your phone to track you and you see this as confirmation that they are spying on you 24/7. Get some help. Seriously. There are medications that can significantly reduce paranoid delusions. Talk to your doctor.


Too many in this thread don't actually comprehend. THEY ARE RECORDING YOUR META-DATA RIGHT NOW (location is meta data) and it is SAVED FOREVER.  They don't have to have you in mind or know who you are when they do it, because it is being done 100% of the time for EVERYONE and this information can be searched like google.
Snowden showed that this information can be accessed by any number of people who have no legal reason to do so.
Unscrupulous persons can use this information to OWN YOU.


Your meta data is not protected. Heck, they sell that to marketing companies. It's what's written on the outside of the envelope for everyone to see.
 
2013-07-24 10:15:07 PM  

davynelson: my cell phone isn't attached to my name in any legal sense
so the point is moot

MOOT


Do you save any phone numbers in the phone's memory?
 
2013-07-24 10:16:10 PM  

kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.

Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.

How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?


They don't need people, and they have plenty of storage.

data center
 
2013-07-24 10:17:22 PM  

ski9600: kg2095: Boloxor the Insipid: revrendjim:

How many people do you think the NSA would need to listen to all phone calls? How much storage space to record all of them?

about this much storage space:
[msnbcmedia.msn.com image 850x456]
Not sure about tracking real time, but once they've got you they'll have the evidence.


Interesting that they included at least  twoSprung structures in that design (I think the fark filter must be combining two and sprung, lol I do not know why).  I guess a Utah senator made them use Utah products there some how.   sprung.com

/ Isn't one of the major computer memory companies based in Utah also?
 
2013-07-24 10:17:37 PM  
Is there anyone who doesn't know that the first thing you do is ditch your cell phone and don't even think about calling any of your contacts? Seriously.
 
2013-07-24 10:21:45 PM  
I love my senator.  Wyden is a stud.
 
HBK
2013-07-24 10:32:02 PM  

theMagni: I use Runkeeper to track my bike rides and runs.  I tell people the app doesn't track me, it just shows me the data the phone company is already collecting on me.


Runkeeper drains the shiat out of my battery. If the GPS was always on, I'd need to recharge my phone twice a day.
 
2013-07-24 10:34:34 PM  

KeatingFive: Eventually a Republican will be President again, and all of this surveillance will be doubled, but it will be OK.


Not if that Republican is Rand Paul.
 
2013-07-24 10:37:10 PM  

ChuDogg: And Obama was under surveillance since 2004. Remember when he campaigned to close GITMO, end warrantless wiretapping, and bring transparency back to government? Yeah about that...


I'm far more afraid of corruption at the local level than at the national level.  I'm just another insect to the fed, but get someone with local PD influence against you and look out.
 
2013-07-24 10:38:28 PM  

Surool: I had already noticed when pulling up Google Maps that it not only showed that I was home, but it was placing the dot within 15 feet of my location inside the house (when zoomed in). Not news.


I went for a hike this evening; usually my GPS is turned off but I was curious where I was on the terrain map. The default position showed me about 15 miles NW of my actual location, which was funny except if I hurt myself they'd never have found me. I was kind of glad I turned it on after that, even if it was just for a minute.
 
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