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(Ars Technica)   The Senator who previously warned us about the NSA's secret interpretation of the Patriot Act used to track your phone calls, emails and more is now warning us that everyone's cell phone has been turned into a 24/7 tracking device   (arstechnica.com) divider line 221
    More: Followup, Patriot Act, NSA, Senate Intelligence Committee, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, tracking system, Ron Wyden, surveillance state, Center for American Progress  
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8838 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 6:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



221 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-24 05:18:10 PM
They'll turn it off when they find the Joker.
 
2013-07-24 05:40:53 PM
I'm behind 7 proxies. Good luck with that
 
2013-07-24 05:41:28 PM
This isn't news.
 
2013-07-24 05:45:54 PM
I was just ranting about this on Facebook......
 
2013-07-24 06:03:41 PM
Cage your damn phones.
 
2013-07-24 06:10:09 PM
I use passenger pigeons, no biggie
 
2013-07-24 06:25:54 PM

Captain Steroid: This isn't news.


That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.
 
2013-07-24 06:33:06 PM
How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?
 
2013-07-24 06:34:21 PM

HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?


The cell phone fairy?
 
2013-07-24 06:38:17 PM
Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not. Yet this is the latest outrage. The government also has the ability to drop a nuclear warhead on your house, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
 
2013-07-24 06:38:39 PM
That's why I leave my cel phone in the other room.
 
2013-07-24 06:39:34 PM
That would explain why the battery doesn't last for more than 10 minutes
 
2013-07-24 06:39:58 PM
Um, they've been doing this for a while. If you call 9-1-1 your phone will even tell you it's uploading your GPS coordinates.
 
2013-07-24 06:39:58 PM

HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?


They ask you?

Called 911 from my cell a handful of times because I ref/volunteer with youth sports leagues and there is at least 1 broken bone/season. They ALWAYS have to ask the address. 2 of the fields they can never find even with the address and directions. GPS beaconing would actually help in that situation.
 
2013-07-24 06:40:23 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-24 06:41:07 PM
That's why I pay cash for disposables
 
2013-07-24 06:41:20 PM
You have all been ingesting rfid tags since the nsa took over fritolay.
 
2013-07-24 06:41:29 PM

skinink: [farm3.staticflickr.com image 500x312]


Awesome, love that movie.
 
2013-07-24 06:42:10 PM

revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not. Yet this is the latest outrage. The government also has the ability to drop a nuclear warhead on your house, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.


That's pre-1/20/2009 thinking.

HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?


That's pre-911 thi-

Aw, fark it.
 
2013-07-24 06:42:45 PM
I could have told you that.
I'm also willing to bet that they share the information with collection agencies and telemarketers.

It's awful funny how often your phone will ring from one of the above within mere seconds of your using the phone, or when you're on the move.
 
2013-07-24 06:43:00 PM
Big deal, I've seen call records. The next step, currently in development, is to tie your phone number to your demographic (Experian Mosiac classification) to display specific ads as you walk thru the mall or drive by outdoor displays.

See colorful chart near the end: http://www.experian.com/assets/marketing-services/brochures/mosaic-br o chure.pdf  Big brother meets Google.
 
2013-07-24 06:43:07 PM
This has been known for years.

Is the delay on this info the general public/media just going to be multiple years as a standard now? Kind of like locking your wireless internet. People are just so stupid they won't find something out until every news station is pretending like they've uncovered some secret?
 
2013-07-24 06:44:21 PM

revrendjim: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they are. The government has had the ability to listen to your phone calls for more than 100 years, but they're probably not.


Um, have you not been paying attention?  Yes, THEY ARE.  Thats the whole point of these stories.  The government IS listening in on all phone calls and internet activity.  Since position of your phone is part of the meta data, it is recorded too.
Recorded forever.
I think people don't really grasp the magnitude of whats happening.  They know more about you than you do! They know more about you than you do, because they don't forget.
 
2013-07-24 06:45:06 PM
I do not see the problem with this.  However, I believe an exception needs to be made for the families of those making over 250,000 dollars a year.  The wealthy and the powerful are not a threat to the well-being of this country.  Only the terrorists, i.e. "people making under 250,000 dollars a year".  Now watch in amazement, as the terrorists label me a "troll".
 
2013-07-24 06:46:16 PM
Philip K. Dick is rolling in his grave.

www3.pcmag.com
 
2013-07-24 06:47:30 PM

new_york_monty: Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article


Senator Wyden, as a member of the Senate Intellegence Committee, is explicitly forbidden to say this is happening for sure, even if he knows it is true.

However, just as with the Senator's revelation that the Patriot Act was secretly being interpreted to allow spying on all Americans, he can hint like a mother farker.

For more than two years, a handful of Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee have warned that the government is secretly interpreting its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming if the public - or even others in Congress - knew about it.

On Thursday, two of those senators - Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado - went further. They said a top-secret intelligence operation that is based on that secret legal theory is not as crucial to national security as executive branch officials have maintained.


Senator Wyden has repeatedly warned us about cell phone tracking.

"Most of us here have a computer in our pocket that can potentially be used to track and monitor us 24/7," Wyden remarked early on, before vaguely warning of the prospect of "a surveillance state that cannot be reversed." Later he added: "Without additional protections in the law, every single one of us... may be and can be tracked and monitored anywhere we are at any time." And again: "Today, government officials openly tell the press that they have the authority to effectively turn America's cell phones and smartphones into location-enabled homing beacons."

He has sponsored legislation to make location tracking without a probable cause warrant explicitly illegal.

What more to you think he could do without landing in prison?
 
2013-07-24 06:47:43 PM
I've read about the roving bugs that supposedly can be activated on cell phones, but I have to wonder how that jibes with things like airplane mode. If the roving bugs truly work as advertised, then airplane mode does nothing because the cell radio is still active. For planes this isn't a huge issue, because the whole cell phone being off thing has largely been bullshiat, but there would be a very real safety impact in situations where lives actually DO depend on the phone truly being off and not broadcasting when you power it off or turn it into airplane mode (such as when you are at a hospital ward with sensitive equipment or you are on a job site with explosives wired to remote detonators).

If you have an airplane mode setting and it is not honored, you could have a major safety issue, and if the airplane mode setting IS honored, then you could just use that to sever the cell connection when you want to go off-grid.
 
2013-07-24 06:48:41 PM
I already leave my phone at home when I'm out committing crimes for this very reason.
 
2013-07-24 06:50:01 PM

new_york_monty: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.


I didn't read the article, but phones perform handoffs even while they are turned off.  So the towers know where you are, as long as there is a battery in your phone.  But I think anyone who watched the Bourne movies knew that.
 
2013-07-24 06:50:53 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

It's basically a documentary
 
2013-07-24 06:51:24 PM
Not if I forget and leave it at home all the time! Booya!

(This annoys my family quite a bit)
 
2013-07-24 06:51:43 PM
I'm posting this from my bunk in Fort Leavenworth so I'm getting ++++ CARRIER SIGNAL LOST++++
 
2013-07-24 06:54:24 PM

skinink: [farm3.staticflickr.com image 500x312]


Great movie. Maybe it's time to include it in the Saturday Cinema thread.
 
2013-07-24 06:54:34 PM
They know I play Candy Crush in the washroom while at work?

This madness must stop.
 
2013-07-24 06:54:51 PM
Is it too early to start stumping for a Wyden/Warren or Warren/Wyden electoral ticket?
 
2013-07-24 06:57:57 PM

new_york_monty: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.


Law enforcement has been obtaining cell phone location data without warrants for years.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/warrantless-cellphone-tracking-leg al -federal-court-rules-944452

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/exclusive-what-local-cops-learn-ca rr iers-earn-cellphone-records-721604?franchiseSlug=technolog
 
2013-07-24 07:00:04 PM

rkiller1: Big deal, I've seen call records. The next step, currently in development, is to tie your phone number to your demographic (Experian Mosiac classification) to display specific ads as you walk thru the mall or drive by outdoor displays.

See colorful chart near the end: http://www.experian.com/assets/marketing-services/brochures/mosaic-br o chure.pdf  Big brother meets Google.


Weirdly enough, I am really enthused by the idea of more targeted ads if that means I never again have to be given the mental image of two wrinkly old people farking from a Cialis ad or to never again be tortured by the Sarah McLaughlin sad kitties and puppies ads. If I'm going to be subjected to ads, it's actually a little less painful if they are ads that I actually might want to see.

That said, how would those mall ads or outdoor displays even work? If you have an outdoor display near a busy road there are so many people zipping by that you can't target any one specific person because you are going to miss out on the other 100 people who are also stuck in traffic near the same sign. The same goes for a sign in a high traffic mall corridor that can be seen by a couple dozen people at the same time. The logistics just doesn't work unless everyone has some sort of Google Glass style HUD.
 
2013-07-24 07:00:19 PM

LoneCraneFullMoon: I already leave my phone at home when I'm out committing crimes for this very reason.


Yeah.  Let's leave our phones at home and go get sushi and not pay!
 
2013-07-24 07:00:24 PM

bhcompy: It's basically a documentary


The funny thing is ever since I saw that movie I was convinced the government could do that in a sort of crazy conspiracy theory way.

Now, Gene Hackman looks like a prophet.
 
2013-07-24 07:00:50 PM

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: new_york_monty: Captain Steroid: This isn't news.

That they can do this isn't really news, although it is something everyone should be aware is possible. If they are doing this without a warrant or with a blanket warrant though, that would be newsworthy. Of course I see no indications that they are doing so in the article, so I'm going to withhold my outrage for now.

Law enforcement has been obtaining cell phone location data without warrants for years.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/warrantless-cellphone-tracking-leg al -federal-court-rules-944452

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/exclusive-what-local-cops-learn-ca rr iers-earn-cellphone-records-721604?franchiseSlug=technolog


It's also the position of the Obama administration.

The Obama administration told a federal court Tuesday that the public has no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in cellphone location data, and hence the authorities may obtain documents detailing a person's movements from wireless carriers without a probable-cause warrant.
 
2013-07-24 07:04:53 PM

caddisfly: LoneCraneFullMoon: I already leave my phone at home when I'm out committing crimes for this very reason.

Yeah.  Let's leave our phones at home and go get sushi and not pay!


Plate of shrimp.
 
2013-07-24 07:05:09 PM
But.. I don't have a cell phone.

/Yes, I'm a dinosaur, I know
 
2013-07-24 07:07:37 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?

They ask you?

Called 911 from my cell a handful of times because I ref/volunteer with youth sports leagues and there is at least 1 broken bone/season. They ALWAYS have to ask the address. 2 of the fields they can never find even with the address and directions. GPS beaconing would actually help in that situation.


Yeah, 911 isn't finding somebody via location tracking. Ever call 911 from somewhere that isn't your home area code? When I first moved to SF I still had a Maryland exchange...it wasn't until after I had to give my not-obscure intersection three times that I asked where I had been connected, and it was somewhere about 90 miles from San Francisco. They had no idea where I was.
 
2013-07-24 07:08:21 PM
I use Runkeeper to track my bike rides and runs.  I tell people the app doesn't track me, it just shows me the data the phone company is already collecting on me.
 
2013-07-24 07:09:12 PM
My Samsung 105 cost me $9.88 at Wal Mart.

A card was $19.95, and after taxes I was out the door for $33 and change.

You think you got a smart phone?  THAT is a smart phone!

Have fun tracking that one, Mr. FBI punk.
 
2013-07-24 07:11:08 PM
Of course they can track it.  This can be used to your advantage if need be.
 
2013-07-24 07:11:33 PM

Scrotastic Method: DoBeDoBeDo: HeadbangerSmurf: How the hell do you think 911 calls are tracked so they can find you when you call?

They ask you?

Called 911 from my cell a handful of times because I ref/volunteer with youth sports leagues and there is at least 1 broken bone/season. They ALWAYS have to ask the address. 2 of the fields they can never find even with the address and directions. GPS beaconing would actually help in that situation.

Yeah, 911 isn't finding somebody via location tracking. Ever call 911 from somewhere that isn't your home area code? When I first moved to SF I still had a Maryland exchange...it wasn't until after I had to give my not-obscure intersection three times that I asked where I had been connected, and it was somewhere about 90 miles from San Francisco. They had no idea where I was.


Enhanced 911 serves this purpose, but not every jurisdiction has it, and the ones that do are already worried about whatever is coming next(I forget the term)
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-07-24 07:12:18 PM
Wait until people find out they can turn on the camera and microphone remotely, too.
 
2013-07-24 07:13:31 PM

Captain Steroid: This isn't news.


Alex Jones talked about this years ago.
 
2013-07-24 07:16:45 PM

Mad_Radhu: rkiller1: Big deal, I've seen call records. The next step, currently in development, is to tie your phone number to your demographic (Experian Mosiac classification) to display specific ads as you walk thru the mall or drive by outdoor displays.

See colorful chart near the end: http://www.experian.com/assets/marketing-services/brochures/mosaic-br o chure.pdf  Big brother meets Google.

Weirdly enough, I am really enthused by the idea of more targeted ads if that means I never again have to be given the mental image of two wrinkly old people farking from a Cialis ad or to never again be tortured by the Sarah McLaughlin sad kitties and puppies ads. If I'm going to be subjected to ads, it's actually a little less painful if they are ads that I actually might want to see.

That said, how would those mall ads or outdoor displays even work? If you have an outdoor display near a busy road there are so many people zipping by that you can't target any one specific person because you are going to miss out on the other 100 people who are also stuck in traffic near the same sign. The same goes for a sign in a high traffic mall corridor that can be seen by a couple dozen people at the same time. The logistics just doesn't work unless everyone has some sort of Google Glass style HUD.


The mobile devices nearby are voting.  As the call records are captured and collated, an algorithm chooses the next ad according to the predominate (or richest or whatever) demographic.  Keep in mind, today this is in beta-test in only one confidential indoor mall.  It's slated to go nationwide USA in 2014.
 
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