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(Opposing Views)   Weed killer isn't killing weeds anymore, but the EPA wants to see if it still kills people   (opposingviews.com) divider line 67
    More: Stupid, EPA, Monsanto, Americans, genetically modified food, pesticides, crops, Roundup, GMO  
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5190 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 2:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-24 02:09:32 PM
How the hell are they going to figure that one out?  Call the Suicide Hotline and ask for referrals?
 
2013-07-24 02:12:29 PM
Independent scientist Anthony Samsel and MIT's Stephanie Seneff wrote in a recent study on glyphosate that the "negative impact on the body is insidious and manifests slowly over time as inflammation damages cellular systems throughout the body."

They linked glyphosate to increased risk of developing heart disease, autism, cancer, Alzheimer's, gastrointestinal disorders, obesity, diabetes, depression and infertility.

The EPA fact sheet does admit that chronic effects of glyphosate includes "kidney damage" and "reproductive effects."


But allowing more shouldn't be a problem! Maybe we do need to abolish the EPA if they are just going to be this bought and paid for....
 
2013-07-24 02:17:40 PM

Headso: But allowing more shouldn't be a problem!


It depends upon how high the chronic levels need to be to trigger said kidney damage and reproductive effects and what levels are recommended (EPA MCL is 0.7 mg/L).

How do MCLs work?
 
2013-07-24 02:23:11 PM
Superinsects and superweeds?  I know, let's just add more, then next year will be even more awesomer with our superduperinstects and weeds.
 
2013-07-24 02:25:01 PM

HeadLever: Headso: But allowing more shouldn't be a problem!

It depends upon how high the chronic levels need to be to trigger said kidney damage and reproductive effects and what levels are recommended (EPA MCL is 0.7 mg/L).

How do MCLs work?


By allowing more, you end up with even more resistant insects and weeds.
 
2013-07-24 02:25:14 PM
Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?
 
2013-07-24 02:25:18 PM
Obamma signed a provision which protects genetically modified seeds from litigation in the face of health risks and has thus been dubbed the "Monsanto Protection Act"

Thanks Obummer!
 
2013-07-24 02:26:05 PM

HeadLever: Headso: But allowing more shouldn't be a problem!

It depends upon how high the chronic levels need to be to trigger said kidney damage and reproductive effects and what levels are recommended (EPA MCL is 0.7 mg/L).

How do MCLs work?


Maybe no big deal for a 65 y/o.  Not so spiffy for a 16 mo old.
 
2013-07-24 02:28:31 PM
Also, the superpests are directly related to farmers not following the guidelines for seed use and planting say, BT corn, in the same goddamn field for 5 years or more.

Which isn't even getting into the fact that planting the same crop 5 years running in the same field is piss poor field and soil management.  Just because you can fertilize the everliving fark out of a field and get a good yield, doesn't mean you should.
 
2013-07-24 02:30:45 PM

FTDA: How the hell are they going to figure that one out?  Call the Suicide Hotline and ask for referrals?


Breath deep and tell us how you feel.

www.sparkybeegirl.com
 
2013-07-24 02:30:52 PM

simplicimus: By allowing more, you end up with even more resistant insects and weeds.


And by allowing less you end up with more insects and weeds.  Might as well get some benifit out of it's useful - but limited - life span.  You just need to make sure that you look at how far you can ramp up use before you start to see other side effects.  Don't want to over do it and end up like India.
 
2013-07-24 02:31:41 PM

relaxitsjustme: Maybe no big deal for a 65 y/o. Not so spiffy for a 16 mo old


So MCLs are made with only 65 y/o in mind?  Really?
 
2013-07-24 02:32:04 PM
They plant geneticially modified seeds that should produce crops that are hardwired to kill pests, but instead the pests are becoming immune to the pesticides. Meanwhile the "Roundup Ready" crops are being attacked by superweeds that are now resistant to Roundup.

I don't have a problem with GM crops per se.... but I'm starting to suspect I should have a problem with the people creating them....
 
2013-07-24 02:32:25 PM
Haha, stupid Opposing Views.  Article headline says "pesticide."  Oopsy.
 
2013-07-24 02:33:19 PM
It's much easier to sell empty land than acreage with those pesky "I'm entitled because I own this land" humans on it.

It'll all be clear when Monsanto buys China.
 
2013-07-24 02:34:26 PM

HeadLever: Headso: But allowing more shouldn't be a problem!

It depends upon how high the chronic levels need to be to trigger said kidney damage and reproductive effects and what levels are recommended (EPA MCL is 0.7 mg/L).

How do MCLs work?


I dunno about the science behind it but if it's harmless at these new levels why did the allowable levels need to be raised, why not have them set at these new allowable levels in the first place. It just stinks of shady behind closed doors bribery/revolving door type stuff.
 
2013-07-24 02:34:48 PM

meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?


Is this credible? I really don't know.

Glyphosate's Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases

Abstract: Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup®, is the most popular herbicide used worldwide. The industry asserts it is minimally toxic to humans, but here we argue otherwise. Residues are found in the main foods of the Western diet, comprised primarily of sugar, corn, soy and wheat. Glyphosate's inhibition of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes is an overlooked component of its toxicity to mammals. CYP enzymes play crucial roles in biology, one of which is to detoxify xenobiotics. Thus, glyphosate enhances the damaging effects of other food borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. Negative impact on the body is insidious and manifests slowly over time as inflammation damages cellular systems throughout the body. Here, we show how interference with CYP enzymes acts synergistically with disruption of the biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids by gut bacteria, as well as impairment in serum sulfate transport. Consequences are most of the diseases and conditions associated with a Western diet, which include gastrointestinal disorders, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, depression, autism, infertility, cancer and Alzheimer's disease. We explain the documented effects of glyphosate and its ability to induce disease, and we show that glyphosate is the "textbook example" of exogenous semiotic entropy: the disruption of homeostasis by environmental toxins.
 
2013-07-24 02:35:25 PM

HeadLever: simplicimus: By allowing more, you end up with even more resistant insects and weeds.

And by allowing less you end up with more insects and weeds.  Might as well get some benifit out of it's useful - but limited - life span.  You just need to make sure that you look at how far you can ramp up use before you start to see other side effects.  Don't want to over do it and end up like India.


I guess goats to get rid of the weeds wouldn't work well in a cornfield. We could take another shot at trying to sterilize the insects, but that trick never seems to work.
 
2013-07-24 02:35:39 PM

meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?


Just these
 
2013-07-24 02:36:03 PM

HeadLever: relaxitsjustme: Maybe no big deal for a 65 y/o. Not so spiffy for a 16 mo old

So MCLs are made with only 65 y/o in mind?  Really?


So MCLs are made with only newborns in mind?  Really?

/way to miss the point
//dumbass, two can play that game
 
2013-07-24 02:41:44 PM
www.sfgate.com
 
2013-07-24 02:44:47 PM
think about the children! BEES!
 
2013-07-24 02:48:23 PM

relaxitsjustme: So MCLs are made with only newborns in mind? Really?


Yep.  They also consider fetuses and children.

TheMoreYouKnow.jpg
 
2013-07-24 02:49:07 PM

stuhayes2010: meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?

Just these


Thanks.

I'll remember not to drink it or directly bath human cells in high concentrations of the stuff.

For the record, I don't use RoundUp, and garden with minimal use of human manufactured chemicals.  My father's even come around after another farmer took out half my dad's garlic crop because said idiot farmer sprayed the roundup with a 29 mph wind blowing.

Paper wasps do an amazing job of killing the few cabbage moth caterpillars in my yard (not going to work in a large mono culture field of cabbage) and there are these little amazing parasitic wasps doing a number on the aphids (again, probably not going to work in a large monoculture field).

Now, if I could just get something to eat the goddamn sugar ants farming the aphids...
 
2013-07-24 02:52:14 PM
All I know is Roundup actually kills weeds, that Ortho Weed Be Gone junk might as well be straight water - it's worthless.
 
2013-07-24 02:54:09 PM

neversubmit: FTDA: How the hell are they going to figure that one out?  Call the Suicide Hotline and ask for referrals?

Breath deep and tell us how you feel.

[www.sparkybeegirl.com image 410x293]


Aww hell no!  I stay indoors when I see the bug spray truck coming down the road to fog out my neighborhood.
 
2013-07-24 02:55:08 PM

FTDA: neversubmit: FTDA: How the hell are they going to figure that one out?  Call the Suicide Hotline and ask for referrals?

Breath deep and tell us how you feel.

[www.sparkybeegirl.com image 410x293]

Aww hell no!  I stay indoors when I see the bug spray truck coming down the road to fog out my neighborhood.


I've got older relatives that used to ride their bikes through the DDT fog.
 
2013-07-24 02:55:09 PM

meat0918: stuhayes2010: meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?

Just these

Thanks.

I'll remember not to drink it or directly bath human cells in high concentrations of the stuff.

For the record, I don't use RoundUp, and garden with minimal use of human manufactured chemicals.  My father's even come around after another farmer took out half my dad's garlic crop because said idiot farmer sprayed the roundup with a 29 mph wind blowing.

Paper wasps do an amazing job of killing the few cabbage moth caterpillars in my yard (not going to work in a large mono culture field of cabbage) and there are these little amazing parasitic wasps doing a number on the aphids (again, probably not going to work in a large monoculture field).

Now, if I could just get something to eat the goddamn sugar ants farming the aphids...


legacy-cdn.smosh.com
 
2013-07-24 02:58:47 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-24 03:00:22 PM

PsychoPhil: All I know is Roundup actually kills weeds, that Ortho Weed Be Gone junk might as well be straight water - it's worthless.


Depending upon what you are trying to kill, take a look at 2-4-D or head down to the County Extension Office. They are a great resource.
 
2013-07-24 03:01:25 PM
We've been dumping this shiat all over Colombia for at least 15 years now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Colombia#Fumigation_strategy_and_c ri ticisms

Between 2000 and 2003, the fumigation program sprayed over 380,000 hectares of coca, which is equivalent to more than 8% of Colombia's arable land

In addition, spraying is shown to have effects on health. Many residents of spray zones have shown to have a variety of skin, respiratory, and other ailments. The scandal regarding health violations arises because the U.S. State department constantly downplays these concerns. They claim instead that illness arises as a result of the herbicides they use for their crop cultivation. Also, the EPA provided the State Department with the assessments of health and environment impacts of fumigation, but these assessments were conducted without any information specific to the local environment of Colombia. The State Department does not even submit enough information to the EPA on how spraying is actually carried out.
 
2013-07-24 03:03:18 PM
We need more corn for ethanol in our gas.      No Till Corn +Roundup is the way to go.     Unless we accidently kill a couple thousand kids.
well....whatev
 
2013-07-24 03:03:24 PM

HeadLever: relaxitsjustme: So MCLs are made with only newborns in mind? Really?

Yep.  They also consider fetuses and children.

TheMoreYouKnow.jpg


Did I say they didn't Mr. Monsanto apologist?  No.  I said that the level of toxins a person is exposed to may affect a newborn more than an adult.

/dumbass still misses the point after I point out that you missed the point
 
2013-07-24 03:06:53 PM

Mister Buttons: We've been dumping this shiat all over Colombia for at least 15 years now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Colombia#Fumigation_strategy_and_c ri ticisms

Between 2000 and 2003, the fumigation program sprayed over 380,000 hectares of coca, which is equivalent to more than 8% of Colombia's arable land

In addition, spraying is shown to have effects on health. Many residents of spray zones have shown to have a variety of skin, respiratory, and other ailments. The scandal regarding health violations arises because the U.S. State department constantly downplays these concerns. They claim instead that illness arises as a result of the herbicides they use for their crop cultivation. Also, the EPA provided the State Department with the assessments of health and environment impacts of fumigation, but these assessments were conducted without any information specific to the local environment of Colombia. The State Department does not even submit enough information to the EPA on how spraying is actually carried out.


Also known as supercoca or la millionaria, Boliviana Negra is a relatively new form of...

Wow! Talk about life finding a way.
 
2013-07-24 03:07:43 PM

Mister Buttons: We've been dumping this shiat all over Colombia for at least 15 years now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Colombia#Fumigation_strategy_and_c ri ticisms

Between 2000 and 2003, the fumigation program sprayed over 380,000 hectares of coca, which is equivalent to more than 8% of Colombia's arable land

In addition, spraying is shown to have effects on health. Many residents of spray zones have shown to have a variety of skin, respiratory, and other ailments. The scandal regarding health violations arises because the U.S. State department constantly downplays these concerns. They claim instead that illness arises as a result of the herbicides they use for their crop cultivation. Also, the EPA provided the State Department with the assessments of health and environment impacts of fumigation, but these assessments were conducted without any information specific to the local environment of Colombia. The State Department does not even submit enough information to the EPA on how spraying is actually carried out.


What's really disturbing is the "inactive ingredients" the detergents and such, are worse for you than the active ingredient, but Monsanto wants you to focus on the active ingredient, glyphosate.

And all we have to show for it is a naturally Roundup resistant cocaine plant and a large number of Colombians that have to resort to growing the one round up resistant plant (coca) they have to make a living, since the other collateral damage is we hit their food crops as well.
 
2013-07-24 03:10:11 PM

meat0918: And all we have to show for it is a naturally Roundup resistant cocaine plant and a large number of Colombians that have to resort to growing the one round up resistant plant (coca) they have to make a living, since the other collateral damage is we hit their food crops as well.


Give it time, we'll figure out how to genetically create a bug that eats coca plants and has no one predator.

Then it can adapt to other food crop sources and we can all starve to death
 
2013-07-24 03:10:39 PM

meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?


No.

neversubmit: meat0918: Are there any credible papers linking Roundup to human death or disease?

Is this credible? I really don't know.

Glyphosate's Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases

Abstract: Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup®, is the most popular herbicide used worldwide. The industry asserts it is minimally toxic to humans, but here we argue otherwise. Residues are found in the main foods of the Western diet, comprised primarily of sugar, corn, soy and wheat. Glyphosate's inhibition of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes is an overlooked component of its toxicity to mammals. CYP enzymes play crucial roles in biology, one of which is to detoxify xenobiotics. Thus, glyphosate enhances the damaging effects of other food borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. Negative impact on the body is insidious and manifests slowly over time as inflammation damages cellular systems throughout the body. Here, we show how interference with CYP enzymes acts synergistically with disruption of the biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids by gut bacteria, as well as impairment in serum sulfate transport. Consequences are most of the diseases and conditions associated with a Western diet, which include gastrointestinal disorders, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, depression, autism, infertility, cancer and Alzheimer's disease. We explain the documented effects of glyphosate and its ability to induce disease, and we show that glyphosate is the "textbook example" of exogenous semiotic entropy: the disruption of homeostasis by environmental toxins.


That study has been thoroughly and completely debunked and it wasn't done by "scientists."
 
2013-07-24 03:14:59 PM
I've stopped using weed killer as they're a freaking rip-off, expensive, barely work.

I've switched to using pickling vinegar (acidic) and dish soap (to make the vinegar stick) with a sprayer and coat the leaves.

As long as used in days without rain to ensure maximum exposure, the weeds bite it and the place smells like a chip wagon.
 
2013-07-24 03:16:19 PM

meat0918: relatives




Like this?

www.theblindcard.com
 
2013-07-24 03:16:39 PM
One of the monsters is the child of a farmer. That farmer and his family told me many times that "Chlordane's the best and cheapest pesticide ever. Sure, it's illegal, but whenever the EPA is nosing around, every farmer calls every other farmer, and we hide it until the federal boys are gone. Because nothing's better than chlordane."

/If you look up "redneck farm family" in the dictionary you'll find their family reunion portrait.
 
2013-07-24 03:26:30 PM

cybernia: That study has been thoroughly and completely debunked and it wasn't done by "scientists."


Stephanie Seneff

Stephanie Seneff is a Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. She received the B.S. degree in Biophysics in 1968, the M.S. and E.E. degrees in Electrical Engineering in 1980, and the Ph.D degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science in 1985, all from MIT. For over three decades, her research interests have always been at the intersection of biology and computation â€" developing a computational model for the human auditory system, understanding human language so as to develop algorithms and systems for human computer interactions, as well as applying natural language processing (NLP) techniques to gene predictions. She has published over 170 refereed articles on these subjects, and has been invited to give keynote speeches at several international conferences. She has also supervised numerous Master's and PhD theses at MIT. In 2012, Dr. Seneff was elected Fellow of the International Speech and Communication Association (ISCA).

In recent years, Dr. Seneff has focused her research interests back towards biology. She is concentrating mainly on the relationship between nutrition and health. Since 2011, she has written 10 papers (7 as first author) in various medical and health-related journals on topics such as modern day diseases (e.g., Alzheimer, autism, cardiovascular diseases), analysis and search of databases of drug side effects using NLP techniques, and the impact of nutritional deficiencies and environmental toxins on human health.


I can't find much on Anthony Samsel but he doesn't seem to be a scientist
 
2013-07-24 03:27:32 PM
The alternative is starvation. I'll take my chances, with what we have now.
 
2013-07-24 03:38:27 PM

mama2tnt: One of the monsters is the child of a farmer. That farmer and his family told me many times that "Chlordane's the best and cheapest pesticide ever. Sure, it's illegal, but whenever the EPA is nosing around, every farmer calls every other farmer, and we hide it until the federal boys are gone. Because nothing's better than chlordane."

/If you look up "redneck farm family" in the dictionary you'll find their family reunion portrait.


My neighbor has obtained Diazanon so he can kill his cranefly problem in his lawn.  I am.... displeased with him.
 
2013-07-24 03:40:02 PM

meat0918: mama2tnt: One of the monsters is the child of a farmer. That farmer and his family told me many times that "Chlordane's the best and cheapest pesticide ever. Sure, it's illegal, but whenever the EPA is nosing around, every farmer calls every other farmer, and we hide it until the federal boys are gone. Because nothing's better than chlordane."

/If you look up "redneck farm family" in the dictionary you'll find their family reunion portrait.

My neighbor has obtained Diazanon

Diazinon so he can kill his cranefly problem in his lawn.  I am.... displeased with him.

FTFM
 
2013-07-24 03:40:34 PM

Headso: The EPA fact sheet does admit that chronic effects of glyphosate includes "kidney damage" and "reproductive effects."

But allowing more shouldn't be a problem! Maybe we do need to abolish the EPA if they are just going to be this bought and paid for....


You can use vinegar as a herbicide. I'm not sure consuming large quantities on a chronic basis is great for your kidneys, either.
 
2013-07-24 03:44:03 PM

PsychoPhil: All I know is Roundup actually kills weeds, that Ortho Weed Be Gone junk might as well be straight water - it's worthless.


Depends on the week. 2,4-D tends to be complementary to glyphosate more than it is a competitor.

Poke laughs at Round-Up, but 2,4-D murders it in a most hilarious manner.
 
2013-07-24 03:49:12 PM
Speaking of wide spread plant killer though, does anyone know of an at least moderately safe way to mass kill a bunch of brush? I say this because on the back of my property is a bunch of brush and grass I want dead but its literally infested with poison ivy...something that I do not react at all well too.
 
2013-07-24 03:50:36 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Speaking of wide spread plant killer though, does anyone know of an at least moderately safe way to mass kill a bunch of brush? I say this because on the back of my property is a bunch of brush and grass I want dead but its literally infested with poison ivy...something that I do not react at all well too.


Fire.  Just don't be downwind of burning poison ivy.
 
2013-07-24 03:51:26 PM

neversubmit: cybernia: That study has been thoroughly and completely debunked and it wasn't done by "scientists."

Stephanie Seneff

Stephanie Seneff is a Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. She received the B.S. degree in Biophysics in 1968, the M.S. and E.E. degrees in Electrical Engineering in 1980, and the Ph.D degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science in 1985, all from MIT. For over three decades, her research interests have always been at the intersection of biology and computation â€" developing a computational model for the human auditory system, understanding human language so as to develop algorithms and systems for human computer interactions, as well as applying natural language processing (NLP) techniques to gene predictions. She has published over 170 refereed articles on these subjects, and has been invited to give keynote speeches at several international conferences. She has also supervised numerous Master's and PhD theses at MIT. In 2012, Dr. Seneff was elected Fellow of the International Speech and Communication Association (ISCA).

In recent years, Dr. Seneff has focused her research interests back towards biology. She is concentrating mainly on the relationship between nutrition and health. Since 2011, she has written 10 papers (7 as first author) in various medical and health-related journals on topics such as modern day diseases (e.g., Alzheimer, autism, cardiovascular diseases), analysis and search of databases of drug side effects using NLP techniques, and the impact of nutritional deficiencies and environmental toxins on human health.

I can't find much on Anthony Samsel but he doesn't seem to be a scientist


She's a nut and was recently interviewed by nutjob Jeffrey Smith. Here's more of her bogus work  http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/11/20/dumpster-diving-in-the-v a ers-database-again/
 
2013-07-24 03:51:51 PM
Of all the child killing organophosphates.... Diazinon is my favorite.
 
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