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(NewsOK)   I'll see your stripper getting her money back and raise you a DA who hire a private company to shake down drivers for a cut   (newsok.com) divider line 67
    More: Asinine, district attorneys, refunds, private company, The Oklahoman  
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7544 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 12:13 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-24 11:38:52 AM
He promised to review every civil money forfeiture case and every criminal case involving his task force.
"I understand the criticism. I understand the concern," he said. "I have halted any activity on the highway by the interdiction unit pending my review ... with the staff attorneys."


Which in Okla means he'll look at his file cabinet, think to himself "yeah, I'm not giving any of that money back" and he'll wait a month before they're at it again.
 
2013-07-24 12:17:34 PM
I'll see your stripper getting her money back and raise you a DA who hire a private company to shake down drives for a cut

And don't forget what he was doing to the lanes!
 
2013-07-24 12:17:42 PM
"drives"?
 
2013-07-24 12:18:50 PM

Albert911emt: "drives"?


"hire"?
 
2013-07-24 12:19:37 PM
"I think his intentions were good, but I don't think he thought it out," said well-known defense attorney Irven Box

If you think his intentions were good you must be very naive and not the type of person who someone would want representing them as a defense attorney.
 
2013-07-24 12:19:51 PM
""For people to pull over people on I-40 without that license is shocking to me," Special Judge David A. Stephens said. "

www.cornel1801.com

I know, right?
 
2013-07-24 12:20:13 PM
The judge spoke at a hearing after learning the private company's owner pulled over a pregnant driver along Interstate 40 and questioned her even though he is not a state-certified law enforcement officer.

How are they accomplishing this? Do their cars bear more than a passing resemblance to actual police cars?
 
2013-07-24 12:20:31 PM
English much, subby?
 
2013-07-24 12:20:32 PM
The drug war is a for-profit enterprise.
 
2013-07-24 12:21:31 PM

NutWrench: The judge spoke at a hearing after learning the private company's owner pulled over a pregnant driver along Interstate 40 and questioned her even though he is not a state-certified law enforcement officer.

How are they accomplishing this? Do their cars bear more than a passing resemblance to actual police cars?


In Oklahoma, actual police cars don't bear more than a passing resemblance to actual police cars.
 
2013-07-24 12:22:34 PM
Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.
 
2013-07-24 12:22:46 PM
Sometimes, no drugs were found and no one was arrested, but task force officers took money found in the vehicles anyway after a drug-sniffing dog got excited.

So basically they robbed people at gun point and they are getting off with a warning?
 
2013-07-24 12:27:02 PM
Box said in no way should a private company be involved in drug stops when it gets paid from funds found on the stops.

"That ... at least gives the appearance that these seizures are done for profit and not to protect the citizens," he said.



State sanctioned theft.  All under the ruse of public safety.  This is part of the reason people hate police.  It's a money racket and it's legal and one day the people will have enough of this thuggery and strike back in spades.
 
2013-07-24 12:29:25 PM
What the goddamned farking FARK?

YOU CAN'T DO THAT, ASSHOLE!
 
2013-07-24 12:31:30 PM
Forfeited funds are split among the law enforcement agencies of the task force after Desert Snow is paid.

So, no one said "Gee, "Desert Snow" is a really strange name for a company that is supposed to assist law enforcement boondoggle drug enforcement program.

"Really? Gee, Harry. There was a program down on the border called "Fast and Furious." It was named after that gay street racing movie franchise (NTTATWWT). It was pretty popular. "

Hey, how did you talk in parenthesis? I know air quotes but not air open paren, air close paren.

"Easy I can show you it's just like...'

Where'd you go?
Hello? I wonder where he went.
Dang.
 
2013-07-24 12:36:21 PM

BarkingUnicorn: What the goddamned farking FARK?

YOU CAN'T DO THAT, ASSHOLE!


But he said he's going to review the policy personally, I'm sure he'll realize he was wrong and fire himself
 
2013-07-24 12:39:37 PM
His prosecutors have dropped all criminal cases arising from the drug stops, The Oklahoman was told. Some seized money is being returned.

"Okay, we've decided you didn't do anything wrong....but uh....we're keeping the money we found in your possession, thank you."

Also $1.00 of $1,000,000 counts as some
 
2013-07-24 12:39:40 PM
so... how much was kicked back to him personally for using this third party?  there is a reason why he wanted to share the department's loot.
 
2013-07-24 12:39:42 PM
But not outsourcing police shakedowns to private companies is sochialismz!
 
2013-07-24 12:40:38 PM
It's events like this when I'm grateful I sacrificed my liberty for privatized public safety.
 
2013-07-24 12:42:15 PM

yeegrek: Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.


Privatization is a major avenue of corruption.
 
2013-07-24 12:43:40 PM

ltdanman44: State sanctioned theft.  All under the ruse of public safety.  This is part of the reason people hate police.  It's a money racket and it's legal and one day the people will have enough of this thuggery and strike back in spades.


I've read articles about stuff like this.  They confiscate any money over a couple hundred, and if they don't have enough evidence to charge you with an illegal act, they charge the 'money' itself.  Then, when you try to go to court to get your money back they attempt to say that since you're not being charged(just your money), you have no standing in court, and of course the money can't charge itself.

One dude had proof that it was essentially his life savings(didn't trust banks) and that he was going to buy a car with cash, and it took a couple years for him to get his money back.
 
2013-07-24 12:43:51 PM
He openly admits this had nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with a cash grab:
.
He said he hired Desert Snow to provide training because his drug task force had little success on drug stops. He said he hoped to make money for his office from the drug stops because of a loss of federal funds..."Yes, it's unusual, but what we're doing here is trying to finance law enforcement on the backs of criminals."

Now admittedly law school was a few years Ago but I seem to recall a Note case we read where the Supreme Court found that a system in Ohio where town magistrates heard all cases resulting from speeding tickets issue by local police, and their slalary was a percentage of all fines collected was considered a clear a violation of your right to a fair and impartial tribunal to hear cases against you.  It seems that this is incredibly similar when the DA enters into a commerical contract that affects his "prosecutorial discretion"
 
2013-07-24 12:45:34 PM
We really need to do away with the gross amount of protection from repercussions that we grant to public officials.

These people should live in horrifying, gut-wrenching, wake-up-in-a-cold-sweat-thrice-a-night terror that they might, some day, even  accidentally do something inappropriate during the exercise of their duties.
 
2013-07-24 12:46:14 PM

Magorn: He openly admits this had nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with a cash grab:
.
He said he hired Desert Snow to provide training because his drug task force had little success on drug stops. He said he hoped to make money for his office from the drug stops because of a loss of federal funds..."Yes, it's unusual, but what we're doing here is trying to finance law enforcement on the backs of criminals."

Now admittedly law school was a few years Ago but I seem to recall a Note case we read where the Supreme Court found that a system in Ohio where town magistrates heard all cases resulting from speeding tickets issue by local police, and their slalary was a percentage of all fines collected was considered a clear a violation of your right to a fair and impartial tribunal to hear cases against you.  It seems that this is incredibly similar when the DA enters into a commerical contract that affects his "prosecutorial discretion"


No wonder the rest of the world thinks we're crazy. They see us going on about "freedom", when we look more and more like Stalinist Russia.
 
2013-07-24 12:49:11 PM

MythDragon: His prosecutors have dropped all criminal cases arising from the drug stops, The Oklahoman was told. Some seized money is being returned.

"Okay, we've decided you didn't do anything wrong....but uh....we're keeping the money we found in your possession, thank you."

Also $1.00 of $1,000,000 counts as some


To be more fair, odds are at least some of the money seized was actually drug money; hard to return money when you don't know where the person you took it from is.  On the other hand, just because you don't know where a person is(bail jumped) doesn't mean that the criminal charges stop.

Personally, I'd like to adjust laws to make any 'associated companies', like the company in this article, red light camera companies, heck, even construction companies and such at least partially responsible for any illegal acts that they participate in/contribute to.

For example, if a judge rules a set of red light camera fines/tickets invalid due to the yellow being illegally shortened and the fines paid returned, the company itself would have to return their portion, and pay a comparative portion of the return expenses.  Publicize that you're doing this and it should provide disincentive to participate in anything shady.  Oh, and require a bond to work with the government to avoid shell games.
 
2013-07-24 12:49:23 PM

yeegrek: Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.


You should see what they do in Chicago.
 
2013-07-24 12:51:59 PM

Firethorn: ltdanman44: State sanctioned theft.  All under the ruse of public safety.  This is part of the reason people hate police.  It's a money racket and it's legal and one day the people will have enough of this thuggery and strike back in spades.

I've read articles about stuff like this.  They confiscate any money over a couple hundred, and if they don't have enough evidence to charge you with an illegal act, they charge the 'money' itself.  Then, when you try to go to court to get your money back they attempt to say that since you're not being charged(just your money), you have no standing in court, and of course the money can't charge itself.

One dude had proof that it was essentially his life savings(didn't trust banks) and that he was going to buy a car with cash, and it took a couple years for him to get his money back.


yeah they do this in Tennessee too. They even fight over who gets to pull people over. Sometimes threatening to kill each other when fighting over the money.
and they pull people over for driving while brown. using made up excuses like "you were weaving"
 
2013-07-24 12:52:37 PM
Oklahoma has really embraced the "Green Movement."
 
2013-07-24 12:59:11 PM

generallyso: yeegrek: Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.

Privatization is a major avenue of corruption.


it is probably the main avenue of corruption.  otherwise, it really isn't corruption.  it's just ineptitude, theft, embezzlement, defalcation (love that word), abuses of authority, etc.  for there to be a corruption there must be a corrupter and a corrupted.  you need someone else to corrupt a government employee/agency.
 
2013-07-24 01:08:34 PM

Magorn: He openly admits this had nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with a cash grab:
.
He said he hired Desert Snow to provide training because his drug task force had little success on drug stops. He said he hoped to make money for his office from the drug stops because of a loss of federal funds..."Yes, it's unusual, but what we're doing here is trying to finance law enforcement on the backs of criminals."

Now admittedly law school was a few years Ago but I seem to recall a Note case we read where the Supreme Court found that a system in Ohio where town magistrates heard all cases resulting from speeding tickets issue by local police, and their slalary was a percentage of all fines collected was considered a clear a violation of your right to a fair and impartial tribunal to hear cases against you.  It seems that this is incredibly similar when the DA enters into a commerical contract that affects his "prosecutorial discretion"


I believe you are referring to New Rome, Ohio - a town which was legally dissolved/unincorporated due to epic levels of corruption within its police force.
 
2013-07-24 01:13:01 PM
This is so disgusting.  That heinous stuff like this goes unpunished with a warning just perpetuates it worsening.  Dude should be strung up, covered in honey and ants or something.
 
2013-07-24 01:15:28 PM

StandsWithAFist: Magorn: He openly admits this had nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with a cash grab:
.
He said he hired Desert Snow to provide training because his drug task force had little success on drug stops. He said he hoped to make money for his office from the drug stops because of a loss of federal funds..."Yes, it's unusual, but what we're doing here is trying to finance law enforcement on the backs of criminals."

Now admittedly law school was a few years Ago but I seem to recall a Note case we read where the Supreme Court found that a system in Ohio where town magistrates heard all cases resulting from speeding tickets issue by local police, and their slalary was a percentage of all fines collected was considered a clear a violation of your right to a fair and impartial tribunal to hear cases against you.  It seems that this is incredibly similar when the DA enters into a commerical contract that affects his "prosecutorial discretion"

I believe you are referring to New Rome, Ohio - a town which was legally dissolved/unincorporated due to epic levels of corruption within its police force.


Not that town specifically but yeah the case I was remebering involved the Mayor's Court system in Ohio which was referenced in that article, and which New Rome used...thanks
 
2013-07-24 01:21:58 PM
I avoid all this trouble by not doing drugs.
 
2013-07-24 01:32:55 PM

Rueened: I avoid all this trouble by not doing drugs.


And not being black, I assume?

You realize that not everyone stopped had or was doing drugs, right? You can be as self-righteous as you like until you're pulled over for some arbitrary reason and they find a "reason" for confiscating your cash.
 
2013-07-24 01:39:28 PM
He's just a capitalist looking to get in on the drug war action by using a privet company to police the filthy peasants. What could possibly be wrong with that?
 
2013-07-24 01:40:53 PM
And by "drug sniffing dog got excitted" they mean "the handler signaled the dog to get excited".

The police refuse to release any statistics on their drug dogs success and failure rates.  In fact, they insist that when a dog signals a hit and nothing was found, it was because there was once drugs in that location.  Pretty damn hard to prove otherwise.  Drug dogs are a scam.
 
2013-07-24 01:46:22 PM

Egoy3k: Sometimes, no drugs were found and no one was arrested, but task force officers took money found in the vehicles anyway after a drug-sniffing dog got excited.

So basically they robbed people at gun point and they are getting off with a warning?


Well, duhh!
Not even real cops any more.
Oh, is that important? Obvious answer,,, hell no.

Just what farking "law" is this asshat enforcing?
This ain't even the Code of The West.
 
2013-07-24 02:02:16 PM

yeegrek: Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.


Has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. Asset seizures have been fully endorsed by every administration since Nixon. In fact the GAO report that kicked-off the dramatic increase in asset forfeitures stemmed from a request by noted drug warrior Joe Biden in the 1970s. The COPS grants and Byrne grants that have led to the creation of hundreds of drug task forces across the country stem from laws sponsored and pushed through Congress by Biden. These programs were actually in run-off before Obama took office and many of the task forces would have gone by the wayside. Instead, the stimulus bill flushed these programs with $2 billion and other DHS and Pentagon programs have provided LEOs with even more money.
 
2013-07-24 02:09:31 PM

pxlboy: Rueened: I avoid all this trouble by not doing drugs.

And not being black, I assume?


Assume what you like.

You realize that not everyone stopped had or was doing drugs, right?

Can you prove that?

You can be as self-righteous as you like until you're pulled over for some arbitrary reason and they find a "reason" for confiscating your cash.

I drive too fast to get pulled over.
 
2013-07-24 02:12:02 PM
See Also Red Light Camera:
Private Company that receives X% of revenues generated.
 
2013-07-24 02:18:54 PM

OgreMagi: And by "drug sniffing dog got excitted" they mean "the handler signaled the dog to get excited".

The police refuse to release any statistics on their drug dogs success and failure rates.  In fact, they insist that when a dog signals a hit and nothing was found, it was because there was once drugs in that location.  Pretty damn hard to prove otherwise.  Drug dogs are a scam.


I've seen several reports of how dogs cue off the handlers. Saw a video once of a cop doing a walk around with his dog. The dog walks past the gas cap door, gives it a cursory glance and keeps going. The handler pulls the dog back, points at the gas cap door, the dog looks up sniffs it, and keeps going, the dog gets pulled back again, and the cop points again. The dog jumps up (get your damn paws off my car! You're clawin' up the paint) sniffs real close, and goes to walk off again. Again the cop pulls the dog back, and the dog does the closest approximation of shrugging it's shoulders I've ever seen, gives up and sits down. The cop tells the driver that the dog indicated on his car and he needs to search it.

Saw another (Cops?) where the handler walked the dog around the car and the cop tells the driver the dog indicated on drugs. I watched the damn dog. It didn't give an active (jumping, clawing, barking) or passive (sitting) action at all. It just walked around looking bored and waiting for a reward. I remember thinking that was the most blatent lie I've seen in some time, and even that made it through editing.

To quote Ron White:
. The cop came to me and said, "Mr. White, we have been told there are drugs on this plane by an anonymous tip." I said, "There are absolutely no drugs on the plane." I did have a bit of weed in my bag, but it's not on the plane, so technically I'm not lying. And the cop says, "Well, may we search the plane?" I said, "You may absolutely not search this plane unless you have probable cause," because I still have civil liberties, you know what I mean? [Audience cheers] I do.

And they ask me, "Well, is it alright if we let the drug-sniffing dog walk along the outside of the plane?" I said, "That's fine," and the dog walks back and forth a few times, and the cop says, "Well, the dog gave us the signal there are drugs on the plane," and I was like, "...No, he didn't! That dog didn't do anything, I was starting straight at him! He didn't wink, blink, woof, or paw. What's his signal, a blank stare? [Mimes a blank stare] That's all he did!" And the cop says, "Well, the dog gave us the signal there are drugs on the plane," And I said, "Well I said there are no drugs on the plane. Who are you going to believe, me or...Ah, fark it, whatever." It takes them an hour and a half to search this plane, and I'm standing there going, "Oh, come on!" And of course there are no drugs on the plane, and I think that's it, and then the cop goes, "Now that dog needs to sniff that bag you have with you," and I was like, [Scooby Doo voice] "Ruh Roh!" They found 7/8 of a gram of marijuana in my bag. I consider myself OUT of marijuana when I have 7/8 of a gram. That's no weed.
 
2013-07-24 02:25:59 PM

Headso: "I think his intentions were good, but I don't think he thought it out," said well-known defense attorney Irven Box

If you think his intentions were good you must be very naive and not the type of person who someone would want representing them as a defense attorney.


Irven Box used to be the go to guy in the Oklahoma City area when you had to go to court if you wanted representation and knew he could get you off.  Now days he pretty much just shills to the local television stations when there is some type of legal issue just for face time on the tube.

NutWrench: The judge spoke at a hearing after learning the private company's owner pulled over a pregnant driver along Interstate 40 and questioned her even though he is not a state-certified law enforcement officer.

How are they accomplishing this? Do their cars bear more than a passing resemblance to actual police cars?


When my job had me driving up and down I40 quite a bit you would see the law enforcement in their surbabans and tahoes.  You could tell it was law enforcement.  There were other big suv's with them that you could only assume were somehow connected because of the black as night tint and the spotlights mounted on the doors.  There was always someone pulled over and the vehicle's contents laid out on the ground.

I don't understand the justification for using a private company to "train" law enforcement.  Isn't recognizing drug runners and other law breakers part of the CLEET training they require you to go through to become an officer of the law?

/needless to say though if you read through the facebook comments for this story on the Oklahoma City television stations, there are a lot of folks who live in these counties he represents that think he is golden and has done nothing wrong.

FTA:  "The judge said he hoped Joe David, owner of Desert Snow LLC, wouldn't do it again.
"If you do, I hope to see you soon, wearing orange," the judge said, referring to the color of jail clothes in Caddo County."


Hopefully he truly meant that and just wasn't saying it to save face while at the same time taking "donations" from the D.A.'s office.  Another site ran this story and pointed out legally you don't have to furnish your license to a non law enforcement personnel but reminds readers that the D.A. is essentially hiring these guys so it might be a losing battle.
 
2013-07-24 02:56:08 PM
If you're a bar, feel free to hire a bouncer.

If you're a mall, feel free to hire a guy with a walkie-talkie to shoo away skateboarders.

If you're a district attorney, you already have law enforcement officers. DO NOT HIRE MERCENARIES.

But they're so much chea--NO.

But there's this one special proje--NO.

But they're not mercenaries, they're specially trained private secu--NO.

But it's not illegal because I told them not to say they were poli--NO.

But we'll actually turn a profit from seiz--NO.

But what if the drug money is fueling terro--NO.

But I told them not to shoot anyb--NO.

Well how about if I give them special temporary depu--NO.

Maybe they could ride along with our real pol--NO.

But they're just doing logistical sup--NO.

...

Okay, bu--NO.
 
2013-07-24 03:14:31 PM

NutWrench: How are they accomplishing this? Do their cars bear more than a passing resemblance to actual police cars?


In the last place I lived, one of the rent-a-cop shops had cars that were tricked out to look  exactly like the local police force's. Not just any cop car--the specific livery of the ______ Police Dept., to the last detail. Same model, same equipment, same color, same font, just slightly different words. If you looked carefully at the light bar when it wasn't on, you'd notice that it would flash green and yellow instead of red and blue. That was basically the only way of telling unless you had a clear view of the words on its side.

I'm guessing that if you adopt the right attitude and and flash some lights--maybe wave your faux badge as you drive alongside them--even people who  know their truck has been loaded up with some suspicious stuff will pull over. It's not like your first thought is going to be, "hey, is that really a cop in that cop-looking car?" in most circumstances. Certainly almost anyone who isn't doing anything wrong will pull over.
 
2013-07-24 03:34:04 PM
When DAs like this one start being found in an alley with a hole in the head and pig balls stuffed in the mouth, then we'll see a drop in this kind of behavior. But probably not before.
 
2013-07-24 04:16:13 PM
The cops are allowed to take all your money at any time for no reason and then not give it back.

Just thought you'd all like to know what kind of a country we live in.
 
2013-07-24 04:17:13 PM

OgreMagi: In fact, they insist that when a dog signals a hit and nothing was found, it was because there was once drugs in that location. Pretty damn hard to prove otherwise. Drug dogs are a scam.


Drug dogs, properly used, are our most effective means of finding hidden drugs.  However, it's important to remember that it's still a dog and there are a whole host of other potential issues.  It takes a good handler to tell the difference between 'I smell drugs!' and 'I smell steak!'.  For that matter, dogs are social creatures and have evolved to better work with humans - it's easy to train said dog to react the same way to stimuli from it's handler as it does to smelling drugs, even non-obvious ones.  It's so easy it happens inadvertently at times.  Same deal with the 'clever horse' back in the day that would stomp it's hoof until it's human handler reacted a certain way(when it reached the correct number of stomps for that math problem).  Doesn't mean that the horse was necessarily stupid - it was just smart in a different way than math.
 
2013-07-24 04:24:30 PM

pute kisses like a man: generallyso: yeegrek: Unbelievable.  In Oklahoma, Republicans have privatized the corruption.

Privatization is a major avenue of corruption.

it is probably the main avenue of corruption.


No, Kisses.  The asset forefeiture system is itself corrupt because it creates a perverse incentive for LEO's to seize property without having to establish a basis for belief that the owner committed a crime involving the property.  False dog alerts are a related systemic weakness, especially after the Supreme Court's 2005 decision in Illinois v Caballes (see Justice Souter's dissent on the fallibility of the dogs).
 
2013-07-24 04:26:54 PM

4tehsnowflakes: pute kisses like a man: generallyso: yeegrek: Unbelievable.


forefeitureforfeiture, FTFM
 
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