If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   Why is it a city like Detroit can hide behind Chapter 9 Bankruptcy protection, but not the 37 million Americans drowning in student loan debt?   (salon.com) divider line 225
    More: Interesting, Americans, Detroit, collective investment scheme, sticker price  
•       •       •

5390 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2013 at 9:46 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



225 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-24 10:09:42 AM
Because cartels.

In the early '80s tuition and books were still affordable then te predatory GOP saw a cash cow for their cronies and created rackets where textbooks had to be bought new each semester regardless if content had changed or not and students' bank accounts needed to be raided because tax revenues no longer funded schools due to thinks like Prop 13 in CA.

The wealthy Aristocrisy in the US does not like competition.
 
2013-07-24 10:10:24 AM

what_now: Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.


This is what liberal arts students tell themselves in order to sleep at night. Unfortunately, it's complete twaddle.
Most useful degrees require that you take a fair amount of liberal arts electives. For example, in order to obtain my engineering degree, I essentially had to take the equivalent of 2 1/2 years of liberal arts credits. Liberal Arts are condiments, not the main course.
 
2013-07-24 10:10:40 AM
Because, money, that's why. Decades ago it was common practice for rich folks like Dentists and Doctors to setup finish all their schooling then get loans for everything they need to setup their own shop then claim bankruptcy on everything. I mean, really, who cares if they filed for bankruptcy because their entire business is setup. Who needs a line of credit when you have all your equipment and schooling when you're a freaking doctor or dentist!!

Normal plebes didn't know this was an option.

Money begats money.
 
2013-07-24 10:10:44 AM
Because if you want a loan with the ability to declare bankruptcy, go get one from a private bank and not a loan backed by my tax dollars.

Better sollution: get rid of the student loan program so my tax dollars aren't supporting colleges to raise tuition through the roof.
 
2013-07-24 10:10:50 AM
my wife and I aren't drowning, per se, but what should have been something that took me 10 years to pay off is going on forever.  we could be doing better things with that money.
 
2013-07-24 10:12:00 AM

dukeblue219: I know it sucks, but who would make a student loan that was dischargeable in bankruptcy? You'd have ten million students every year graduating with $160,000 in student loans, no assets, no income, and immediately declaring bankruptcy to get out of it. In a sense, no bank would ever loan that much money unsecured at a reasonable interest rate, unless the collateral is your future earnings.

//That's my understand of why that's how it has to be. Am I wrong?


No, I think you do not realize how right you are.
Why do you think the banks disappeared all the credit money?
 
2013-07-24 10:12:39 AM

FarkedOver: Because students and other people saddled with student load debt do not have the balls in this country to stand up for what they farking believe in.
Take to the farking streets.  Make them hear you.


When you believe in the right for people without any credit to get non-collateralized loans at low interest rates that can be discharged you probably shouldn't wast time having people hear you.  It will just make you look silly.

You won't get change from a ballot box

And there we go again.  Students just looking for handouts of change instead of working to earn dollars.

and you want get change from either major party.

I have no idea what that means.  Maybe you can get a refund on some of the tuition you paid?
 
2013-07-24 10:12:46 AM

what_now: WhippingBoy: e.g. If you really, really want that Gender Studies degree, you can pay for it on your own dime

Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.

Every time someone says "You should get X degree" I cringe because I recognize that we will hit market saturation of those degrees.

E.g: Law Degrees.


All I hear on Fark is study science and engineering. All I hear from new science and engineering grads is that all the jobs are taken by H1B visa holders who work for Starbucks wages.
 
2013-07-24 10:12:51 AM
Ooooh, Oooh!

It's because the Banks own the Democrats and Republicans, isn't it!

The same reason that the Banks get to borrow the money they lend to you at basically zero percent and then charge 22% on a credit card..

The same reason none of the fraudulent bankers who destroyed the economy have been criminally prosecuted.
 
2013-07-24 10:12:51 AM
Because if they did, the universities would go belly up within a decade, and everyone would blame the banks for "predatory student loans."

/so it won't happen until we get a Republican president, as a minimum requirement
//probably require a veto-proof majority Dem congress as well
 
2013-07-24 10:13:07 AM
I knew when I graduated with my student loan debt I would have to:

A) Get an awesome job, where I can get a decent salary, and pay off the loans myself.
B) Marry rich.

I got half of option A and if anyone knows where I can find option be let me know.
 
2013-07-24 10:13:16 AM

MugzyBrown: Because if you want a loan with the ability to declare bankruptcy, go get one from a private bank and not a loan backed by my tax dollars.

Better sollution: get rid of the student loan program so my tax dollars aren't supporting colleges to raise tuition through the roof.


Private student loans aren't discoverable in bankruptcy either, and the ED made a $50 Billion profit from Student loans last year, so quit your whining about how your "tax dollars" are paying for this.
 
2013-07-24 10:13:22 AM

what_now: raerae1980: Intrepid00: raerae1980: I filed bankruptcy a few years ago specifically so I could handle my student loans. Sucks but I had to do it.   I knew in my last year of grad school that I was sinking in debt and would not be able to handle all of it once my deferment ended.  If I had a choice I would have discharged my loans but kept the credit cards.

Did you pay to go to graduate school cause it sounds like you did? Which is doing it wrong.

Um, there's no funding at the MA level so yes, out of pocket I did.  Now, had I gone on to a PhD then no, I would not have.

His point was inelegantly stated but correct: It's almost never a good idea to pay for a terminal Master's degree, because they rarely pay for themselves.

There are some exceptions of course, but if you got a Masters in History and took out a loan for it, that's not really a smart fiscal decision.

Nothing you can do about it now, unfortunately, but serve as a warning to others.


Well, when I made the decision the economy wasn't in the crapper and I was told by my superiors that if I wanted to work in my field, I needed at least an MA.   I get that they were wrong but at the time it seemed like it was worth it.   I was in school for 10 years (BA and MA), a lot changed in that time.
 
2013-07-24 10:13:56 AM

FarkedOver: Because students and other people saddled with student load debt do not have the balls in this country to stand up for what they farking believe in.  Take to the farking streets.  Make them hear you.  You won't get change from a ballot box and you want get change from either major party.


i1239.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-24 10:15:10 AM

LaurenAguilera: Let me sum it up: Because Bush Obama Benghazi Snowden Wikileaks Fox News.

That's why.

Oh, and also Obamacare Welfare and Bootstraps.


Covered all the angles in one post. Nicely done!
 
2013-07-24 10:15:46 AM

lohphat: Because cartels.

In the early '80s tuition and books were still affordable then te predatory GOP saw a cash cow for their cronies and created rackets where textbooks had to be bought new each semester regardless if content had changed or not and students' bank accounts needed to be raided because tax revenues no longer funded schools due to thinks like Prop 13 in CA.

The wealthy Aristocrisy in the US does not like competition.


Nor do they like a genuine education spread around en masse.
 
2013-07-24 10:16:05 AM

what_now: Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.


Hard science degrees don't teach critical thinking? *cough*Bullshiat*cough*
 
2013-07-24 10:16:20 AM

Tatterdemalian: Because if they did, the universities would go belly up within a decade, and everyone would blame the banks for "predatory student loans."


Not all of them. There are a lot of schools that offer a good product at a good price. These schools have a career services department with a higher budget than the football team.

But the second tier private schools that have beautiful campuses, awesome dorms, great parties brah, and cost $50k a year? Well some of them will continue as finishing schools for the wealthy, but most will disappear.

And that's not a bad thing, IMO.
 
2013-07-24 10:16:31 AM

MythDragon: FarkedOver: Because students and other people saddled with student load debt do not have the balls in this country to stand up for what they farking believe in.  Take to the farking streets.  Make them hear you.  You won't get change from a ballot box and you want get change from either major party.

[i1239.photobucket.com image 800x625]


If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.
 
2013-07-24 10:16:43 AM

lohphat: Because cartels.

In the early '80s tuition and books were still affordable then te predatory GOP saw a cash cow for their cronies and created rackets where textbooks had to be bought new each semester regardless if content had changed or not


So you think that most teachers and college administrators are Republican?

That's funny!
 
2013-07-24 10:17:04 AM
Well, you can't take the knowledge you learned out of your head so you would get educated for free.

But it needs to be more affordable. But they don't want you to earn your own money and get rich. They want you to borrow money with interest so they get rich.
 
2013-07-24 10:17:30 AM
That's a good question, and I with respect as to why corporations can discharge debt with ease and students can, I think you need look no further than who can contribute to political campaigns. Not students up to their eyeballs in debt
 
2013-07-24 10:17:35 AM
 
2013-07-24 10:17:46 AM
You borrow money, you pay it back - simple.
 
2013-07-24 10:18:10 AM
AccuJack: If you don't know you want to go to college enough to pick something to study, then wait to go until you do know what you want.

Jesus, I wish someone had told me this in high school. I told my dad I wanted to wait and get my shiat together before I went to college, and he got all disappointed and judgmental, so off I went. Went for two and a half years before crippling anxiety and depression, stemming from not knowing what I wanted to do with my life, made me drop out. Now I have student loan debt and no degree. Awesome.
 
2013-07-24 10:18:22 AM
Because the govenment holds most of the debt and wants their cash.
Better question is why it cost so much in first place.
 
2013-07-24 10:18:35 AM

thurstonxhowell: what_now: Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.

Hard science degrees don't teach critical thinking? *cough*Bullshiat*cough*


Some do, sure. "Engineering" and "Computer Science" degrees teach you formulas, and as someone already pointed out all the entry level positions are filled by H1B1 Visa holders and no one is retiring.

I predict that the engineering bubble will burst in the next 5 years, much like the law bubble.
 
2013-07-24 10:18:47 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: what_now: WhippingBoy: e.g. If you really, really want that Gender Studies degree, you can pay for it on your own dime

Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.

Every time someone says "You should get X degree" I cringe because I recognize that we will hit market saturation of those degrees.

E.g: Law Degrees.

All I hear on Fark is study science and engineering. All I hear from new science and engineering grads is that all the jobs are taken by H1B visa holders who work for Starbucks wages.


Yeah, that's a bit of a problem. Unfortunately, to excel in science and engineering takes aptitude and hard work. If the only reason you're getting a degree is because it's the "hot new thing", then you probably won't do very well. Sometimes life isn't fair...
 
2013-07-24 10:20:03 AM

FarkedOver: Take to the farking streets.


They did. They were told to STFU and GBTW, and we were told that they were just farking around for no good reason.
 
2013-07-24 10:20:07 AM

brilett: Why did we bail out the auto makers but not the city that spawned them?


It's more interesting to note that when we bailed out the auto companies, the union workers and bond holders got screwed.

Yet when we bailed out the bankers with AIG, they got paid out at 100%.

Here's Senator Warren proving why she is the most awesome member of Congress when it comes to financial matters.
 
2013-07-24 10:20:14 AM

Chinchillazilla: AccuJack: If you don't know you want to go to college enough to pick something to study, then wait to go until you do know what you want.

Jesus, I wish someone had told me this in high school. I told my dad I wanted to wait and get my shiat together before I went to college, and he got all disappointed and judgmental, so off I went. Went for two and a half years before crippling anxiety and depression, stemming from not knowing what I wanted to do with my life, made me drop out. Now I have student loan debt and no degree. Awesome.


When I'm Queen of Everything all 18 year olds will have 2 years of national service.
 
2013-07-24 10:20:41 AM

AccuJack: dukeblue219: dukeblue219: That's my understand of why that's how it has to be. Am I wrong?

I guess I should have RTFA first because it covers what I just said. Oh well.

Reality check:  This is *Fark*.  You're posting a response to the headline for an article without reading it.

Would you post internet reviews of cars based on the font used to write the text surrounding one picture of the car in an article online if the picture was photoshopped to look like it was in a funny location?

Seriously, re-evaluate your logic process here.  RTFABR (before reply/response).



Fark you. I would if I could.


th05.deviantart.net
 
2013-07-24 10:21:02 AM

Kome: bopis: Its who you owe it to. The guy with the gun government always gets theirs.

I thought about striking out "government" and putting in "bank" but I'm in a cynical mood this morning and figure that would just be replacing synonyms.


The line is blurred, my loans used to be all chase then they were all dept of ed. now its nel net which I think is gooberment.
 
2013-07-24 10:21:10 AM
Detroit is hardly hiding behind Chapter 9. It might be time for the writer to go back to school and learn the difference between secured and unsecured debt.
 
2013-07-24 10:21:46 AM

buddyrtr: You borrow money, you pay it back - simple.


You borrow money.  You whine a lot.  Washington forces your neighbors to pay off part of your loan for you.

/less simple. But effective
 
2013-07-24 10:23:34 AM

ManateeGag: my wife and I aren't drowning, per se, but what should have been something that took me 10 years to pay off is going on forever.  we could be doing better things with that money.


What made it take more than 10 years to pay off if you were on a 10 year repayment plan?
 
2013-07-24 10:24:37 AM
Why not put in provisions allowing for the discharge of student loan debt through bankruptcy but at the cost of the nullification of your degree?  You can discharge the debt, but your school is then required to de-list you from the records and you are no longer allowed, under penalty of law and fraud charges, to claim that you earned that degree?

It would discourage abuse of the system, but still leave a way out for those who are at the end of their ropes.
 
2013-07-24 10:25:56 AM
You have no collateral for a student loan. You get that loan purely on potential future income. If you could have that debt forgiven via bankruptcy student loans would not exist. Charity and loans are two different things. People need to learn the difference.
 
2013-07-24 10:26:44 AM

FarkedOver: Because students and other people saddled with student load debt do not have the balls in this country to stand up for what they farking believe in.  Take to the farking streets.  Make them hear you.  You won't get change from a ballot box and you want get change from either major party.


Or, you could not have taken out the loan if you didn't agree with its terms.
 
2013-07-24 10:27:27 AM

APO_Buddha: Is the answer Socialism?


Socialism is NEVER the answer.

www.akphotograph.com
 
2013-07-24 10:28:36 AM

fortheloveofgod: Or, you could not have taken out the loan if you didn't agree with its terms.


Good idea.  I should never have went to college.  WHO CARES that almost every job offer says "4 year degree required."
 
2013-07-24 10:28:47 AM
 cefm: Because Congress, that's why.

Based on zero reliable evidence and a whole lot of hearsay about Doctors declaring bankruptcy during their residency to get rid of med school debt and then walking into 6-figure jobs, Congress decided to monkey with bankruptcy laws.

Maybe - just maybe - the proper solution to this isn't to force (and permit) huge loans to students with little ability to repay them, but to actually have government fund higher education appropriately, and exercise some control on the stupidly high cost of college.


Who is forcing students to go get huge loans?  Zimmerman put a gun to their head?  Nope.
College costs are high because of all the govt money flowing into students pockets.  If you hand over $15k a year to kids, don't expect college to not cost $20k a year.   If you give out $10 to everyone for breakfast, an Egg McMuffin meal will drift in price to $12.50

People went to college before.  They just went to a bank and got a loan and had to justify what kind of
education they wanted to get.  This of course, meant they could not go to the bank and ask for money to get a Gerbil Studies degree.
 
2013-07-24 10:28:50 AM

AccuJack: dukeblue219: dukeblue219: That's my understand of why that's how it has to be. Am I wrong?

I guess I should have RTFA first because it covers what I just said. Oh well.

Reality check:  This is *Fark*.  You're posting a response to the headline for an article without reading it.

Would you post internet reviews of cars based on the font used to write the text surrounding one picture of the car in an article online if the picture was photoshopped to look like it was in a funny location?

Seriously, re-evaluate your logic process here.  RTFABR (before reply/response).


Umm...did u just jump hia shiat after ge said he should have read it first? You need coffee.
 
2013-07-24 10:29:01 AM

what_now: WhippingBoy: e.g. If you really, really want that Gender Studies degree, you can pay for it on your own dime

Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.


Gotta throw the bullshiat flag on that one....I've interviewed over 200 recent college grads over the last five years and can definitely attest that liberal arts students are no better in their critical thinking.....in fact, they are probably more likely to answer "it depends" on a yes/no question.They are also lacking in their hard math and science skills....unless they were a math/science major and then they are comparable.

That said I once had a French History major apply for a statistics based position that required a math, engineering, or business degree.  Evidently, she thought that 3 hours of intro to stats qualified her for the role.  I only scheduled her because she came as a reference from an exec in corporate.  The interview took 20 minutes,  I ended the interview by telling her she was clearly not qualified for the position when she couldn't explain to me the formula to calculate a mean...which is just a fancy way of asking how do you calculate the average of a group of numbers.   If these are the people taking out student loans for bullshiat majors and they are bent because they can't find real jobs....fark 'em, let them live with their decisions.
 
2013-07-24 10:29:10 AM

buddyrtr: You borrow money, you pay it back - simple.


Just ask Whitey,,,,
Bulger, that is.
 
2013-07-24 10:29:46 AM

WhippingBoy: The answer is simple:

- subsidize tuition in order to reduce the frequency/need for student loans
- allow student loans to be absolved through bankruptcy
- provide other means/ways/mechanisms to promote an educated population

However, in order to qualify for this program, as a student, you need to:

- present what essentially amounts to a "business plan" in order to qualify for a loan:
  - show how you intend to pay it back
  - justify your degree in terms of return on investment
  - research the "employability" of your degree
  - present a year-by-year plan including such things as expected income, loan repayment schedule, etc.
- require that you maintain a certain GPA, or you revert back to the "old" system

What this will do is:
- ease the way for people who actually plan for their future, and are serious about college
- dissuade people from going to college for the sake of going to college
- dissuade people from racking up massive amounts of debt in order to obtain an obviously useless (in terms of ROI) degree

e.g. If you really, really want that Gender Studies degree, you can pay for it on your own dime


While we're at it, smack companies who require college degrees for positions that have no need for the degree.
 
2013-07-24 10:30:04 AM

lohphat: Because cartels.

In the early '80s tuition and books were still affordable then te predatory GOP saw a cash cow for their cronies and created rackets where textbooks had to be bought new each semester regardless if content had changed or not and students' bank accounts needed to be raided because tax revenues no longer funded schools due to thinks like Prop 13 in CA.

The wealthy Aristocrisy in the US does not like competition.


So 7 books, twice per year, 4 years is generously $10,000, and that's not even figured into tuition and room & board.  Where does the other $160,000 go?
 
2013-07-24 10:30:15 AM

AccuJack: Reality check:  This is *Fark*.  You're posting a response to the headline for an article without reading it.

Would you post internet reviews of cars based on the font used to write the text surrounding one picture of the car in an article online if the picture was photoshopped to look like it was in a funny location?

Seriously, re-evaluate your logic process here.  RTFABR (before reply/response).


Wait - you started off by saying "this is Fark" and then implied that there was some sort of high standard here where everyone just naturally rtfa before responding.  What are you, new?
 
2013-07-24 10:31:16 AM

what_now: thurstonxhowell: what_now: Except that liberal arts students are getting better jobs out of college because they are the only discipline that teaches critical thinking.

Hard science degrees don't teach critical thinking? *cough*Bullshiat*cough*

Some do, sure. "Engineering" and "Computer Science" degrees teach you formulas, and as someone already pointed out all the entry level positions are filled by H1B1 Visa holders and no one is retiring.

I predict that the engineering bubble will burst in the next 5 years, much like the law bubble.


As an engineer, I classify your entire post as bullshiat, but especially the bolded parts.

There will always be demand for engineers simply because they have a fundamental understanding of how machinery/programs work and how to fix them. As for visa holders having the jobs, well, that should help prove a point that THIS COUNTRY NEEDS MORE HOME GROWN ENGINEERS!

Also, do you really think liberal arts majors are the only people taught critical thinking? You should be publicly shamed for such an idiotic comment.
 
2013-07-24 10:31:35 AM
Because they didn't go to a private, Northeast university to major in Medeival Literature.
 
Displayed 50 of 225 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report