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(YouTube) Video Bill O'Reilly: So Obama thinks he's good at race-baiting, huh? *cracks knuckles* Watch this   (youtube.com ) divider line
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4908 clicks; posted to Video » on 23 Jul 2013 at 9:39 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-23 10:09:09 AM  
7 votes:
"The culture that we have in this nation does lead to criminal profiling, because young black men are so often involved in crime."

It's cyclical, Bill. Let's use an example.

For example, LOTS (and I mean LOTS) of people smoke marijuana. Many of them carry that stuff with them into cars. Not just black people, white people, hispanics. Lots of people smoke weed. I don't know the statistics but it's pretty common.

Now, if you continually profile black people and pull them over 5 times more often than white people and once pulled over they are 10 times more prone to a search of the car, what do you think the result is? More black people arrested and incarcerated.

And what is the impact of that? They go to jail (perhaps, depending on circumstances), they may be punished in terms of the circumstances of their jobs, education, etc. And as more black people live in poverty, they are less likely to be able to hire a competent lawyer to get off. So they do the jail time or pay hefty fines. They are therefore more likely to re-enter the cycle of poverty and do more jailtime because of their inability to move out of the circumstances of their situation. Many end up long-term in jail.

Now let's say men are much more likely than women to end up in jail. Now to O'Reilly's next point.

"They blame the barbarity on guns or poor education or lack of jobs. Rarely do they define the problem accurately. The reason there is so much violence and chaos is because of the disintegration of the African American family."

Wonder why that is, Bill? Is it because it isn't one thing?

The problem is cyclical, and you can't nail one thing down as the sole cause. Crime is the result of disintegration of family life, which is the result of poverty, which is the result of lack of education AND racial profiling, which is the result of crime...which is the result of disintegration of family life...And each one defines another.

it goes on and on my friend.

Improving education, legalizing drugs, reducing recidivism, and recognizing our own personal biases that lead to racial profiling would go a long way toward fixing the cyclical problems that plague the 'black community' which is not as much a community as it is a group of people who share a common skin color and experience as the result of that skin color.
2013-07-23 03:12:28 AM  
5 votes:
It is terribly sad that a reasonable amount of what he stated in his little screed is actually quite factual and that if one were to present Bill with an equally unpleasant and absolutely factual account of what corporate whorehouses are doing to the American economy and it's citizens, he'd get at least as dismissive and harrumphy as any black community leader when presented about the facts of their community's broken culture.  It's all just people drawing lines, sticking flags in the dirt and "yuh HUH"  "nuh UH" -ing at each other without actually having to give up an inch of their own bad ideas.  And it's as unproductive as it sounds.
2013-07-23 01:50:54 PM  
3 votes:
I skipped to the bottom to drop a little knowledge from someone who actually works in the 'inner city' with 'black people.'

1) Race and poverty are not intertwined. However - poverty falls more disparately on the black community for a myriad of reasons that I will quickly list, slightly expand on, and then move on.
1a) Slavery - In the United States we had a cultural and legal institution that said black people are not worth as much as white people. Anyway you slice it, there are still people that believe this to be true.
1b) Poverty - Many blacks congregated in major metropolitan areas because it was easier to find jobs. Jobs and housing tend be of lower quality due to high demand. If 5 people want to live in an apt, 1 of them is willing to overlook just how shiatty it is. If 5 people want a job, 1 of them is willing to work minimum wage for more hours, just to keep food on the table.
1c) Education - The education system has often favored certain prime areas for better teachers. These positions tend to be lower stress and outside of the more difficult urban communities. Thus good teachers leave rough schools faster than anywhere else.
1d) Crime - both the criminal and the victim suffer certain issues. The criminal finds that crime leads to financial wealth faster and more easily than education/minimum wage jobs. The victim, if financially able, leaves the crime-ridden area as soon as possible, depleting many good citizens who could otherwise stabilize an area.

2) Generational - These factors have been building over decades and decades. Otherwise healthy families in the 1930's and 40's have watched society as a whole stand aside while they were consistently beaten down and ignored. While Civil Rights when a long way to allowing for some measurable equality, when you fought the fight and still see inequality all around you, it's tough to buy into the system.
2a) Young black men - People find ways to fit in. In communities where education is poor, community organizations are nil (think about the rec leagues and karate studios, and whatever else you may have had access to as a kid), and families feel devalued, young black men often turn towards less socially acceptable groups who engage in crime and other negative behavior as an attempt to connect to people around them. Gangs are the perfect example of this.
2b) Extended Family - I see more young black kids being raised by grandparents these days. Grandfathers tend to be far more in the picture than biological fathers. This goes back to the YBM's need to find a place to fit in and a way to earn status which often leads them into avenues that are contrary to the needs of a family.

3) Prison - Children struggling with reading by grade 3 are significantly more likely to end up in prison than students who are at or above grade level. The poor educational system, along with undervalued emphasis put on attaining an education leaves many young black children (particularly boys) to give up entirely. Leaving them to be statistics in the prison system.
3a) Mandatory sentencing - In the 80's and 90's, mandatory sentencing put a lot of people into prison for otherwise menial offenses. Having a certain amount of crack on you lead to a certain length of prison term, while significantly greater amounts of cocaine carried much lower stays. As crack was far more prevalent in the cities, where black people made up a larger percentage of the population, many of them ended up in prison in a very skewed rate. This lead to back 2b.
3b) Recidivism and Cyclicality - Getting out of prison put many people back in the same social structure that did not support positive decision making in the first place. Having a criminal record left your job prospects scarce and committing more crime was a faster track to getting financial stability. Furthermore, for YBM, when the men in your life are all going to prison, it seems the logical prospect for your life, and leaves you feeling life no matter how hard you work, it won't make a difference, so why bother? (I've heard a number of teens express this sentiment).

4) Other ethnicities/cultures - I often hear the 'well yea, but everyone deals with poverty, and they do just fine' argument by people who think numbers tell the whole story. Black people in the United States, who have just moved here or are at most one generation removed from their arrival tend to do significantly better. Their work ethic is still greatly impacted by the society from which they emigrated. The same tends to be true for asians and hispanics. The issue here is that all of the above factors have given black people, whose families have been in the states for multiple generations, a much poorer self image and belief in their own ability to succeed.


Let's stop saying the issue is 'their black.' It's so much deeper and more ingrained than that. I'll have a conversation about race with anyone who wants to talk. And I'll tell you why you're wrong.


Also - on the whole topic of babies and birth control - realize that black culture is pervaded by very conservative Christian theology and that conversations about BC and sex don't happen much in the home, and thanks to educational changes, don't happen much at school either.

Teens every where are stupid when it comes to sex.
2013-07-23 10:31:35 AM  
3 votes:

bunner: Kuta: In other news, Bill O'Reilly isn't black and doesn't live in a black community.

Isn't that sort of a bullsh*t and racist excuse for anything?  Like, at all?


The only valid points made in that rant were the statistics about the rates of homicides committed by black youth versus non-black youth.

The rest of his rant was attributing cause to the statistics. There were no evidence provided for any of his other assertions. Not to say that some of his points aren't contributing factors, but he did not present anything even remotely resembling an even-handed conversation. He said that himself up front that as a pundit his "conversation" would be anything but.

His audience wanted to hear him say those things, so he said them, whether or not they are true. His only solutions were to tap his magic wand and instantly change everyone's mindset no matter where they live. And if that doesn't work immediately, then the government should dismantle the social safety net.

No, O'Reilly didn't make some valid points. He made one single, solitary valid point and the rest was his opinions, standard tropes and rhetoric.
2013-07-23 09:41:37 AM  
2 votes:

Skeuomorph: "Nobody's forcing black girls to have babies. It's a personal decision."

On the contrary, Bill, you are literally forcing them to, by systematically removing every "pro-choice" option. And f you take away those options, you now have responsibility for that child.  You need to feed them, educate them, give them jobs... That's now your decision.


I like how the complete lack of personal responsibility has so pervaded the liberal mindset that they think if they can't abort a baby that's "forcing" someone to have a baby.  It's as if the thought of birth control or even a little self-control is beyond the ability of a normal human being.  That's what liberals think about other people - that they are wild animals with no ability to control themselves.

Why do you have so little faith in your fellow humans, Skeuomorph?
2013-07-23 08:03:05 AM  
2 votes:
"Nobody's forcing black girls to have babies. It's a personal decision."

On the contrary, Bill, you are literally forcing them to, by systematically removing every "pro-choice" option. And f you take away those options, you now have responsibility for that child.  You need to feed them, educate them, give them jobs... That's now your decision.
2013-07-23 10:24:02 PM  
1 vote:
I agreed with a lot of what he had to say except for some of his solutions to the problem.  Harsher prison terms will not fix anything as long as our prison system remains the disaster that it is.   Everyone that goes in comes out worse...  We need to end the drug war and focus on rehab instead of prison.
2013-07-23 02:55:04 PM  
1 vote:

master_dman: Coolfusis: I like how people always frame it as "problems in the black community," as though it were somehow exclusive to black people. They point out that the statistics, but ignore the other side of those statistics - it literally states that all other races suffer from the same problems to some degree. Clearly, then, there must be some other source of the problems.

Gee, I wonder what other things could breed crime, poor education, and large families born from unexpected pregnancies.


If you can't figure out why "liberals" think you're a racist for focusing only on the black community while quoting statistics that show that all races have the same issues in low-income areas, then you're probably just farking stupid. And racist.

Now, we can have a conversation on the effects of generational poverty, but that would bring out the "welfare" hounds.

See.. thats where you are wrong.  If you live in a big city, lets use your as an example.  The poor white trash section of your town, I guarantee you, doesn't have the crime problems as the poor black section of your city.  Sure.  There IS white crime, but it can't even be seen when you stand it next to the black crime.

Watch your news.  Don't take my word for it.  It is easily seen in every major city in the entire U.S.

So, to reiterate.  It's NOT an economic problem.  It's a culture problem.


Even if it is a 'culture' problem, as you say, it's not an intrinsic cultural problem. It's learned and ingrained due to an exterior society that in many ways, hopes they just kill each other off. When you build a society that tells a large portion of its population that they aren't good enough, or smart enough, or valuable enough, etc, then you create a group of people who will live with that mentality.

If you're not familiar with 'A Class Divided' check it out.
2013-07-23 02:54:43 PM  
1 vote:

master_dman: Coolfusis: I like how people always frame it as "problems in the black community," as though it were somehow exclusive to black people. They point out that the statistics, but ignore the other side of those statistics - it literally states that all other races suffer from the same problems to some degree. Clearly, then, there must be some other source of the problems.

Gee, I wonder what other things could breed crime, poor education, and large families born from unexpected pregnancies.


If you can't figure out why "liberals" think you're a racist for focusing only on the black community while quoting statistics that show that all races have the same issues in low-income areas, then you're probably just farking stupid. And racist.

Now, we can have a conversation on the effects of generational poverty, but that would bring out the "welfare" hounds.

See.. thats where you are wrong.  If you live in a big city, lets use your as an example.  The poor white trash section of your town, I guarantee you, doesn't have the crime problems as the poor black section of your city.  Sure.  There IS white crime, but it can't even be seen when you stand it next to the black crime.

Watch your news.  Don't take my word for it.  It is easily seen in every major city in the entire U.S.

So, to reiterate.  It's NOT an economic problem.  It's a culture problem.


In the big city where I grew up, the cops used to drive right by the lines of white trash waiting for their meth connection, while the black ghetto kids were routinely pulled over and busted for drugs.  You would see white wife-beaters let off with a warning and black wife-beaters shoved into the cop car.

So I actually agree, it's a culture problem.  Just not the way you think.
2013-07-23 01:07:30 PM  
1 vote:
man ..there are a lot of really uninformed/misinformed people in this thread.

I'm not sure why I would have expected different.

The problem is the disintegration of black families? Hmm I wonder what could cause that?

> Lack of jobs/opportunity/education that has created an underground economy for which there are strict mandatory sentences of decades?
> After serving their time, strips the right to vote from entire generations of fathers? (I really hate that one)
> Forces them to not be able to live with their family again due to low income housing laws? (Thanks Clinton!)
> Prisons making a greater profit for having every bed filled and influence laws to create higher demand? (private prisons should be against the law)
> City cops being enticed to arrest as many non violent offenders as possible? (I can explain this if you would like, but it might take a paragraph)

none of that has to do with babies....

The situation is actually somewhat more complex than "stop having babies!". I hate this kind of oversimplification.
2013-07-23 12:45:11 PM  
1 vote:

Elegy: From the outside looking in, there is little to no outrage in the media over black on black crime. There is no outrage from the loudest black "community leaders" like Sharpton and Jackson, who instead prefer to flout the statistical anomaly as the next great civil rights crusade.


That's because nothing much changed for yeas for black people in this country until they started burning sh*t down.  And if it means we chase all the money out of the neighborhoods, if it mans we tolerate and tacitly encourage a culture of violence, if it means we let our own people poison us with dope, greed and misogyny, as long as white folks are scared of us, we're OK.  Even if stuff has changed.  And it's not helping and it's not making anybody rich and it's not keeping teenagers out of coffins or jail or maternity wards and it's, so far, it's a crutch that even comedians can't pick up with a straight face anymore.  This is, like it or not, a clown suit no matter whose closet it is hanging in.  And that has to change for there to be any hope.
2013-07-23 12:22:31 PM  
1 vote:

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Look, Bill O'Reilly is an asshat.  Won't watch, don't care if I'm less of a human being because I didn't.  Just wondering how amazed he was that blacks weren't yelling for iced tea in ghetto voices when he went to Sylvia's in Harlem or whatever.

If you don't think there's an ongoing dialogue in the black community about blackness, about poverty, about how embarrassing some blacks are, you're an idiot.

If you don't think any prospective open dialogue about race in this country isn't immediately shut down by a bunch of asshat white dudes immediately stepping up and saying what's on their mind, you're an idiot.


Contained in your response is part of the problem. Any "white dude" that steps up and talks about legitimate concerns - crime rates are outrageously high in the black community, and this concerns me because they are my neighbors and this affects my life - is immediately shouted down as an "asshat" and a racist for even bringing the subject up.

From the outside looking in, there is little to no outrage in the media over black on black crime. There is no outrage from the loudest black "community leaders" like Sharpton and Jackson, who instead prefer to flout the statistical anomaly as the next great civil rights crusade.

Black crime rates and black on black violence is something that does concern white Americans, who have a stake in their local community as well. You think white people want that crime ridden ghetto across the tracks? Think again.

Excluding white people from the dialog and attacking anyone who brings up the subject as a "white asshat" is one of the problems preventing people from finding a common solution.

So congrats on being part of the problem.
2013-07-23 11:37:06 AM  
1 vote:

Kuta: If you're not mining or farming, you're just moving money around.


You seriously believe this? Medical and technical research is moving money around? The industrial revolution? "Wealth" isn't comprised solely of source materials, Kuta. Do you realize that, for a sum less than $100, you can own a device that can access 99% of the world's combined knowledge, instantly? That such access was impossible just 3 short decades ago?
2013-07-23 11:13:53 AM  
1 vote:

bunner: Kuta: The rest of his rant was attributing cause to the statistics.

So, statistics are just manufactured at random in some office someplace and tacked up on phone poles for review?  There are no causative or correlative effects?  'Cause, like, I think that's the whole point of statistics.


O'Reilly doesn't get into any sort of depth to determine causative or correlative effects. Show me where he does. He single data point is not an honest effort at analysis.

In fact, he doesn't want to make that effort. He wants to sound like he's responding to Obama and does it by painting African American "culture" in the worst possible light. His "solutions" are traditional talking points and sound bites that pander to his audience.

That's the bullshiat of it all. He's telling his mostly white, male, suburban, married, conservative audience that what worked for them will work for everyone. And more to the point, that his path is the right path for good living.

Well guess what? Obama's existence tells us that every day that a person from unfortunate circumstances can overcome and become the most powerful person in the world.

Obama's story and experiences are inspirational. Bill O'Reilly's ranting is not.
2013-07-23 11:02:00 AM  
1 vote:
This isn't just about race.  It's about addressing the fact that the captains of industry have f*cked off with a lot of futures, pensions and jobs in the trunk of the getaway car.  Broken, dysfunctional cultures are broken dysfunctional cultures - regardless of the numbers on the tax return of any given participant - and that "oh, you're just racist" is not an answer, a solution or a remedy for any given culture's dysfunction.  Let's not even get into the fact that the label says "E Puribus Unum" and we're only supposed to be a culture of mutual goals.
2013-07-23 10:53:14 AM  
1 vote:

Wall_of_Doodoo: But it's a rich WHITE guy talking about poor BLACK people statistics and therefore racist by its very nature.


not just a rich white guy, Carl Sagan was a rich white guy Mr Rogers was a rich white guy... this is a rich white partisan blowhard from right wing nutter news network.
2013-07-23 10:52:34 AM  
1 vote:

Lsherm:  like how the complete lack of personal responsibility has so pervaded the liberal mindset that they think if they can't abort a baby that's "forcing" someone to have a baby.  It's as if the thought of birth control or even a little self-control is beyond the ability of a normal human being.  That's what liberals think about other people - that they are wild animals with no ability to control themselves.

Why do you have so little faith in your fellow humans, Skeuomorph?


Because in all humans, liberal or conservative, hindsight works better than foresight.  You can't stop people from making mistakes, human nature is to believe bad things happen to others, not oneself.  Once reality kicks in is when people most need a safety net.

If it can happen to the Palins, it can happen to you.  Kids pretty much are unable to control themselves because they simply don't grasp the consequences until it's too late.
2013-07-23 10:45:54 AM  
1 vote:
Some of the people in this thread have decided that I am either a leftist libby lib libby tard or a grinding racist GOPer already, simply because topic of this thread demands that you come to the table with one of those views and a sense of superiority that you do not subscribe to whichever one you are certain is wrong.  And that's the whole problem.
2013-07-23 10:45:29 AM  
1 vote:
A man known for hyperbole on a network known for hyperbole and racism is going to tell people we need a mature conversation about the state of the "black community"...  yeah that'll go over well...
2013-07-23 10:40:02 AM  
1 vote:
Billy's got his facts straight and makes some good points (shudder).

Nobody wants to talk about the massively lopsided crime statistics. You're shouted down as a racist if you even bring it up. I watched a few weeks ago as one farker claimed per capita statistics were racist.

Can't do anything but shake your head and laugh, really. It's hard to fix anything when people just want to play the race card and not address the problem itself.
2013-07-23 10:27:46 AM  
1 vote:

Kuta: In other news, Bill O'Reilly isn't black and doesn't live in a black community.


I am not black but I have lived in a couple different "black" communities.

And by black I mean low rent, low income communities...ie poor......but in order to give my children something better than a roach infested apartment and a landlord that never replaced the boiler for the apartment building leaving the residents with no heat for 3 years I figured I had to do something about it myself instead of waiting for superman to come rescue me.


But that would be considered bootstrappy...which liberals have turned into a word that is as vile as the word nigg*r
2013-07-23 10:24:45 AM  
1 vote:

Rascalian: He has some valid points.


If you're a simpleton, yes. I mean everything he says makes sense, right? Except his logic is linear and not cyclical. In fact the problem isn't even cyclical. It's a bunch of self-reinforcing issues. Lack of education can result both from lack of home life, poverty, and drugs. Crime can result from lack of education and poverty and family life. Murder can result from lack of education and drugs and poverty and family life, and to some smaller degree some gangsta rap videos. Use of drugs can result from poverty, lack of education or career, family life.

Can't it be a multitude of separately addressable yet tightly aligned issues? Why do people think it's just a few?
2013-07-23 10:06:37 AM  
1 vote:
He has some valid points.
2013-07-23 10:02:38 AM  
1 vote:
I remember when Holder said Americans were cowards afraid to have a conversation about race.

I also remember how as soon as you bring it up the conversation is stifled by someone calling someone a racist for wanting to have that conversation.
2013-07-23 09:59:57 AM  
1 vote:
8 and a half minutes?!  I think I'll stick with removing my own gall bladder with a spoon, thanks.  Much more enjoyable.
2013-07-23 09:46:52 AM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: Skeuomorph: "Nobody's forcing black girls to have babies. It's a personal decision."

On the contrary, Bill, you are literally forcing them to, by systematically removing every "pro-choice" option. And f you take away those options, you now have responsibility for that child.  You need to feed them, educate them, give them jobs... That's now your decision.

I like how the complete lack of personal responsibility has so pervaded the liberal mindset that they think if they can't abort a baby that's "forcing" someone to have a baby.  It's as if the thought of birth control or even a little self-control is beyond the ability of a normal human being.  That's what liberals think about other people - that they are wild animals with no ability to control themselves.

Why do you have so little faith in your fellow humans, Skeuomorph?


He's seen what life is like with conservatives in control.
2013-07-23 08:32:16 AM  
1 vote:
The fact of the matter is that African American culture is a mess and nobody is "allowed" to mention this and corporate culture is at least a big of a mess and you can mention it until your gums bleed and you will be largely shouting down a well.  Divide and conquer zeitgeist and the 30 years class war from the profit über alles morons have turned whatever cohesive culture we might have had into a reasonable simulacrum of a garage window when a baseball hits it.  And somebody better start talking to somebody about something without any animosity or two faced, agenda-ish bullsh*t added or the full tilt batsh*t civil war that's brewing will finally go down, much to the delight of the corporate hooery and we will do their work for them.  Turning on each other instead of them.  Poison Kool aid has no favorite ethnicity.
2013-07-23 08:14:14 AM  
1 vote:

bunner: Nabb1: It's not like you've actually rebutted anything he said with any actual facts or counter-arguments. I generally think O'Reilly is a gas bag, but if I'm going to dispute something he said, I bring something to the table other than misdirection and as hominem.

*clicks authority posture count*

Ahma clue you in on something.

I don't work for you.

*clicks ignore*


That's a mature response.
2013-07-23 07:42:34 AM  
1 vote:

bunner: Red Shirt Blues: It will be a show if not a spectacle. The will be ignores and bans and rumors of permabands. Thrills, chills, laughter, and weeping. Fists slamming on keyboards, beer being spewn out into the points of the compass and every keyboard and monitor.

I hope not because that would prove every single other thing Bill said.


It's not like you've actually rebutted anything he said with any actual facts or counter-arguments. I generally think O'Reilly is a gas bag, but if I'm going to dispute something he said, I bring something to the table other than misdirection and as hominem.
2013-07-23 06:14:39 AM  
1 vote:
Let it go green mods. There were a lot of little conversations on race by various pundits and the president. And here comes Bill O'Reilly coming out with some very uncomfortable truths and statistics and asks the questions one doesn't ask in polite conversation. It will be a show if not a spectacle. The will be ignores and bans and rumors of permabands. Thrills, chills, laughter, and weeping. Fists slamming on keyboards, beer being spewn out into the points of the compass and every keyboard and monitor. You have the power////.  It's always tease  tease, your happy when I'm my knees. One day is fine and next is black, so if you want me off your back. Well come on and let me know, should I stay or should I go now ! Should I stay or should I go now? If I go red there will be trouble, but a green will get you double! SO come on and let me know should I stay or should I go?
 
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